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- [00:11]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website@therapyforblackgirls.com while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining Me for session 405 of the therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. Have you heard the news? Therapy for Black Girls is launching our Community on Patreon.
- [01:14]
It's your space to be seen, heard and understood in an even more connected way.
- [01:20]
We're excited to bring you new segments like so My Therapist Said, where we break down viral therapy, hot takes with real mental health professionals, TBG Community Chats where we unpack trending pop culture topics.
- [01:32]
That have us all in our feelings and opportunities to connect with other sisters all over the world.
- [01:39]
Sign up now at therapy for black girls.com join patreon for all the details.
- [01:44]
About what we're planning and to be the first to know when the doors are open.
- [01:48]
We can't wait to see you inside.
- [01:50]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
This is an I Heart podcast.
- [01:55]
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- [02:30]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the Club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply Parents.
- [03:48]
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- [03:51]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Stop.
- [03:52]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 2
Stop right here or get DMs about what's for D? You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.
- [04:06]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 1
For most, HPV clears on its own, but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.
- [04:11]
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Embrace this phase. Help protect them in the next. Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination brought to you by Merck.
- [04:22]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
In the.
- [04:22]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Wake of the MeToo movement, it became clear that film and television sets needed stronger regulations around intimate scenes. Since then, intimacy coordinators have been on the rise, ensuring that actors feel safe and respected while bringing vulnerable moments to life on screen. Thanks to their work, we can enjoy our favorite shows and movies without questioning whether boundaries were crossed behind the scenes. Today I'm thrilled to be joined by Dr. Tiff Henry, an expert in sex and mental health and a leading Intimacy coordinator. With a master's in psychology and a doctorate in human sexuality, she brings a deep understanding of human connection to her work. Since earning her certification with the Intimacy Professionals Association, Dr. Tiff has become a go to intimacy coordinator for TV and film productions across metro Atlanta. You may have seen her expertise in action in productions like Teal and Tell Me Lies or caught her insights on Good Morning America McN. Through her careful choreography of intimate scenes, Dr. Tiff creates environments where both passion and safety can coexist beyond the screen. She dives even deeper into conversations about self discovery, relationships and intimacy on her podcast, intimate details with Dr. Tiff. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag tbginsession. Here's our conversation.
- [05:54]
Thank you so much for Joining me today, Dr. Tiff.
- [05:57]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Thank you so much for having me. It is truly an honor and a pleasure to be here. To be in your presence and just to be able to talk about all of the things, just mental health in general amongst our folk and to be able to really sit down with you is honestly a pleasure, a blessing, everything. So I'm here for the duration. Whatever you need, whatever I have, it is yours. It is your audiences. Just. Thank you so much for having me.
- [06:25]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
No, thank you for joining me. So I always love to hear, like, the backstory of, like, how you got here. This is a huge question, right? But specifically as it relates to, like, psychology, like, like, how did you find yourself in psychology and also exploring your doctorate in human sexuality?
- [06:42]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Man, first of all, research. You've done it. I spent the morning writing, okay, today, and I'm going to get to the backstory. But I did spend the morning writing something for my podcast about purpose and about how we sometimes are waiting on purpose and trying to find purpose and trying to figure it out. And a lot of it has to do with us searching for what we want as opposed to asking God about what he wants for us. So that'll come later. But in that, I think I got started looking for what I wanted. So when I went to college, I went to undergrad at University of North Carolina at Charlotte, and I did not know what I wanted to major in. I would totally do it differently, just being honest. I would totally do it differently if I had to do it all over again, but did not know what I wanted to do. Talked to my dad about it, and he was like, well, you know, I think you should do psychology. Like, you're really good at listening to people and helping people figure things out and blah, blah, blah. So I was like, okay, I'll do it. I'll try it. Got like a D or an F in my first class. So I was like, you know, I don't really get into what I'm supposed to be doing, but turns out I believe that, like, any general class, anybody that's gone into an undergraduate program kind of knows those general classes. They throw everything at you, right? So you're talking abnormal, you're talking general disorders, and you're thinking about all of these broad concepts and all of the key players in the history of that field. And it was just very overwhelming for me. So he's like, take another class. See, you know, it might stick. And then I started getting A's and B's. A's and B's. As and B's. And so I was like, oh, okay. Eventually, just so that everybody knows, I did go back and take the class again and got an A after the fact. But that's how I got into psychology. This was also at a time. Now I'm gonna date myself. I graduated from college in 98. In 98. So this was the time of Dr. Drew having lovelines. This was the time Dr. Ruth was in her bag. Dr. Sue. Sue Johansson was on the old Oxygen network, and she was doing her thing. And I'm like, wow, this seems like an area of expertise that I would really want to do. I really want to do sex therapy. But also, at the time, sex therapy seemed a little bit kooky. There was. We weren't. I didn't know anyone that looked like us that was doing it. And I didn't know if it was going to stick. I did know that no matter what psychology was going to. I was gonna have a job. Okay. My mom worked in community mental health. Like, I knew that, above all else, psychology would be there for me. So I was like, I'll specialize in this, but I'll always have psychology to fall back on, which is a weird way of thinking about it. So I minored in women's studies, and then once I, you know, did that, I really found that my niche was human sexuality and women's sexuality. It was very easy for me to talk about. It was very easy for me to understand and explain to people, to make people feel comfortable talking to me about those things. So that was how I got into it. I got the master's in psychology, and then I went on for my doctorate in human sexuality education from Widener University. And that's how I got to be a sex therapist.
- [10:14]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So I feel like you. We are kindred spirits in that, like, the Loveland. I mean, the love line. Sujo Hansen, Oxygen. Like, I feel like that is where a lot of us first saw therapists show up on TV and, like, in pop culture. So Dr. Gail Wyatt on the Oprah show was the first time I had seen, like, a black woman mental health professional show up. Who was that for you? Was it Dr. Wyatt or someone else?
- [10:37]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Oh, who was it for? Me? You know what? I think for me, it was. It's. It was different. It was a therapist. Wow. It was a therapist that taught me. She taught me abnormal psych. Her name is Dr. Joyce Morley Ball. She's here in Atlanta, and she's a black bald headed woman who just owned whatever space she entered into. I think Dr. Ball does do some television, but I don't. I. That's not where I got her. She was. When I saw her and saw how she held the space, especially for black women. And I don't know that she was intentional about that, but I gravitated towards her. It was the hardest class in my master's program. Probably the only class that I got like a B in. But I was thankful for that B because she worked me over and I learned so much from her. She really commanded that we understand the material, that we strive for excellence, and that we really get down and dirty with our clients. I think from her I learned a lot about, or more about not being afraid to ask the tough questions and to really look underneath things, to really be curious, and that people are just layered. And one thing that I did learn from her, I remember her saying very vividly that, like, you are not your diagnosis. And that has always stuck with me because I remember, like I said, my mom worked in. She was a admin assistant in community mental health when I was younger. And. And I remember people calling people schizophrenic, like, he's a schizophrenic or she's bipolar, she's whatever. And I remember Dr. Ball one day said, this is a person with schizophrenia. This is a person with bipolar disorder. And that was so important to me, really profound. And I spread that message to people that I talk to, people that I work with, that we are not our diagnosis. And it's so hard when you assume that or if other people put that on you. But no, you're a person who has symptoms that are characteristic of a diagnosis. You are still a person. And so my hope is that in all the work that I do, that I am people first, that I let people know that they are people first. And we can deal with and work through the elements that come with you as a person and whatever diagnosis you may have.
- [13:04]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So one of the many incredible things that you do is working as an intimacy coordinator. So I wonder if you can define what that is and, like, what your work is there and talk about the history of that field and like, how long intimacy coordinators have actually been a part of productions.
- [13:20]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
As an intimacy coordinator, when someone asks me what it is that I do or what that means. I just had to say this. In Costco the other day, someone asked me what this was, what it was. The way that I explain it is I help actors and productions when they have scenes that have nudity or simulated sex. I come in and I help make that set safe. I make the actors feel safe. And I assist the production in making sure that we ensure that the set is safe. And what that looks like is going through. All the scripting I go through, like, with a fine tooth comb, and weed out any scenes that I think will have some sort of intimacy, some level of intimacy. Now, sometimes it requires that I'm there for just a kiss. Most times not. But I'm looking for, okay, beyond just a kiss, right? Body touches, any kind of sexual stimulation or simulated sexual stimulation, and, of course, nudity. And so I'm looking for those things. I meet with a director to make sure I understand their vision. Then I meet with the actors, and I go over that vision. But I also get their consents or their concerns or. And see what they're comfortable with. Just because a director may have a vision for what they want to see, it doesn't necessarily mean that the actor themselves is comfortable with portraying it in that way. And so it becomes not necessarily a negotiation. But we figure out what the actor is comfortable with. We put that in a legal form called a writer, which is what is expected of them and what they say that they will do on the day that we film. But ultimately, people have agency and autonomy, which is what I like, and they are able to change their minds. So if on the day, let's say, I met with an actor two weeks ago, and on the day that we are filming, they are no longer comfortable with being touched in a certain way or exposing a certain body part, they can amend that writer or change that rider. They can do less than what's on the writer. We have to get a new rider if they want to do more. And then just making sure that the set is safe, that no more people are on set that day that need to be on the set, that, you know, you just don't have curious people there just to look and gawk at someone when they're in their most vulnerable state and making sure that they just continue to feel safe throughout that process. So that's what I do as an intimacy coordinator. I started doing intimacy coordination right around Covid, which was an awful time to start doing it. But it was very necessary for me, a little bit of backstory on just how I navigated this. I've been doing therapy. I've been in private practice since I graduated from my master's program in 2000. And so right after that, I'd been doing work in hospitals and Things like that. I officially started private practice in 06. I'm old. I officially started private practice in 06. And I also then started doing television. So I would get invited to do reality shows. I'd hosted a daytime talk show for ABC and done a nighttime talk show for tlc and had done a lot of stuff in front of the camera, which I really love. But at the same time felt as though I didn't have as much control over the work that I was being asked to do. I was beholden to someone calling me and saying, hey, we have this article that just came out. Would you like to comment on it? Or we have this celebrity that needs counseling on television. So can you come in and do it? I'm waiting on a call. And I really wanted to create some of my own stuff. And so I worked with a major network. I've had a couple of development deals with networks, but this one in particular, it tied me up for about two and a half, three years where we were developing a talk show. We were developing and development. We shot pilots. We had done all these things. And then people would look, leave networks. And so then you have to repitch your idea to the new people that come in. And then money changes. It was big thing. And so. But also during that time, while you're on hold, if you have a good agent, they will make sure that you are fairly compensated for taking that time. Because I couldn't work on any other projects while I was in development with this particular network. So I took that money, saved a lot of it. But I used that to fund my certification to become an intimacy coordinator. So I used the money that I was waiting on to do this next thing because it was going to allow me to be behind the camera and learn more about this industry that I wanted to be in and also do the thing that I had been doing already. Intimacy Coordination is such a compilation, a good compilation of my work as a therapist, my education in sexuality. It just made so much sense. It checked off all the boxes. So that's how I got in it. And then this field has been around for a while. I think some of the earlier shows to use intimacy coordinators would be like Euphoria, I think on hbo. HBO was one of the first, I think, to make it a thing that with all of our productions that have intimacy, we're going to have an intimacy coordinator. I think what made it stick, though, was the MeToo movement, as you remember. And this was all with like, the Harvey Weinstein stuff. There were several allegations of people Insisting that people do things that they hadn't agreed on. And actors feeling as though if they didn't, they would lose their job or they would lose their. Their ability to work. Like, the casting couch didn't become just this mythical thing we had always heard about. It was real. People were showing up day of and being like, yeah, you know, I knew that you agreed to do this with a bra on, but let's just see how it is with your bra off. That cannot happen today. And that's why intimacy coordinators are there. I think before people would even do that in auditions, they would bring them there for an audition and have them act out an intimate scene with someone that they don't even know. And that's just not the way that actors should be treated, that we should be handling this type of work because it is. Is really challenging. And. And people need to have autonomy and agency over the things that they agree to do and know that when they walk on set that no one's going to be asking them to do something that they aren't prepared to do and aren't willing to do. So, yeah, that's kind of how that all came about.
- [20:10]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So you mentioned certification. So you use some of your money to get it certified. So talk to me about the certification process to become an Intimacy coordinator.
- [20:19]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
So I did mine with ipa, which is Intimacy Professionals Association. I have to think about the acronym, and there are several out there. IDC is another. There are several. Each program is very different. There's a set curriculum of things that you really do need to know in order to become an Intimacy coordinator is not a mandate that you need to be a therapist or a sex therapist or anything like that. Many intimacy coordinators maybe come from different fields. We have a lot of intimacy coordinators that are also stunt performers and actors or have acted in the past and had a great intimacy coordinator or a need for one and decided, hey, I already know what one half of being on set is like. I'd love to learn this. We've had a lot of people who are costumers or PAs who become intimacy coordinators. You have to have a love for. Love of detail, for sure, but of really wanting to make people feel comfortable and safe and to advocate for. And I think we, as therapists, I feel like we're perfectly positioned in that area and that we are used to doing that. We're used to talking to people about difficult things. We're used to listening very well and parroting back what they've said to you to make sure that we're clear we're good at communicating those things to other people and then just standing in the gap and making sure that what they need, we can advocate for them. The process was for me, the way that I did it, because like I said, I did it right at the beginning of COVID I might have started right before COVID but I know, I'm pretty sure that Covid was part of it. So we did a lot of it virtual, where we talked about all levels of the film industry, like everywhere that we could possibly work, whether that is on stage for like plays, short films, television, all of that. We talked a lot about and did a lot of education on boundaries. Consent was a big part of it, how things are shot. I remember one of the most helpful parts was just like. And I'd been on sets before, but like I said, I was doing a lot of in front of the camera work. I wasn't doing a lot of behind the scenes work. So learning about screen terminology and the things that would be said, like what it means, like how to read a call sheet, how to, like, who to go to when you need certain things done on set, who to email, how to email, like how to build a resume specific for this type of work. So we went through kind of everything and then some of it was very practical. How to stage things so that it looks very real on camera, even though those things aren't really happening. When I say simulated sex, sometimes when we look at intimate scenes on tv, they look very real. And these are some really good actors doing some really intimate things. But it is simulated. Unless you're watching something like porn. I would say more often than not, these things are not happening in real life, but we make it look that way. And so a lot of the training is about how to get certain angles and knowing if it's a wide shot, what we can get, versus if it's close up or a cowboy. And like how to block using maybe someone's arm. I had a actor the other day, she's okay with her breast being shown, but not her nipple. And so how do you show a breast without showing a nipple and without showing the nipple cover that's going to be on it. And so you have to know how to block that with different areas of the body or with another person or with a prop or something like that. How to make sex look real when penetration is absolutely not happening, when barriers are in place so that that isn't happening. And then also we know as human beings, our body responds in ways that maybe we don't want it to at certain times. So there definitely are times when there's a scene going on and two actors are doing their best to be as professional as possible. And that doesn't mean that someone's penis might not do some things that they don't want it to do. Might get hard in a way. And so we have to pull back. I have to be able to give that person time and give them space, make sure barriers are in place. I use things like these yoga balls. I don't fully inflate, but it'll give like this much of a padding in between them so they can be on top of each other. The ball is squished, you'll never see it, but it allows them to move in a way that, that makes it look as though they're having sex, but also provides a lot more padding there and they're never touching each other. So little things like that that you don't necessarily know or think about, thus the type of training that you get. And you just have this. I have this massive bag over here that is just like a. A toolkit for all of the things that could possibly come up on set that we just don't think about.
- [25:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
More from our conversation after the break.
- [25:26]
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- [26:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Many of us play lots of different roles in life, partner employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply Parents of Tweens if.
- [28:13]
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- [28:16]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Stop.
- [28:16]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 2
Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be expecting experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.
- [28:30]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 1
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- [28:36]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 2
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- [28:45]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
So where.
- [28:46]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Are you actually standing on set? Like are you like to the side of the director? Like where are you so that you can see what's happening?
- [28:53]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
It depends. Most often I'm in at what we call video village and that is kind of a tent or an area where there are screens that show me exactly what the camera is filming. So I mentioned before that there are riders that we have in place for each actor that really state like what they're agreeing to do or what they're saying they will not do or don't want to show. So I need to be in front of a monitor because obviously the Camera isn't getting the full picture of what's going on in the room. They're getting what they're zeroed in on. And so I need to make sure that what they're filming is what we've indicated they can film so that we're not wasting footage on something that we'll never be able to use because of a writer. So I always like to be in front of a camera, monitor. Sometimes that monitor. Most often, that monitor is going to be outside of wherever it is the set that they're filming on. Sometimes they will set a monitor for me in the actual room where they're filming. There have been times where I've been like, if we're shooting in, like, a makeshift bedroom and there's like, a bathroom off to the side, a lot of times I'm tucked in behind the door looking at a monitor where you can't see me, but I can see everything that's going on. I've even had instances where a couple, they're. Let's say they're supposed to be making love in bed. And all we have is, like, a sheet to kind of shield areas that don't need to be seen. And so a lot of times I'm just off to the side so that I can tuck that sheet here or do this or pull this in this way so that those things won't be seen. I'm very close by. I'm usually not very far away, but sometimes I'm right in the room and right next to. To them. And sometimes I'm outside of the set, but on at a monitor.
- [30:37]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So you already mentioned, Dr. Tiff, that part of your job is going through the script with a fine tooth comb. Like, okay, all of the things that look like they could be intimacy, anything. And so I wonder, what is your definition of intimacy? Because I would imagine that could sometimes be different than maybe what the director or the writer is thinking. So what definition are you using?
- [30:55]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
My therapeutic definition of intimacy is emotional closeness and physical closeness. I believe you need to have both of those things, emotional closeness and physical closeness, for true intimacy. So when I work with people in private practice, that's what I'm talking to them about. A lot of times they'll come because of the physical stuff. But we got to work on the emotional stuff, too. On set, though, what they are looking for help with and safety around is more of the physical stuff. But my recommendation and coaching and choreography usually tries to. I usually try to add some of those emotional elements because I know that's how we tell the best story. I'll say. So I'll tell you if I have someone that's, let's say I have a couple that we're trying to convey that the lovemaking that they're doing or the scene needs to be just really passionate and it's a big reconciliation, that they're really hungry for each other. We'll choreograph that to be ferocious or whatever. But I want to see intimacy in different ways. Like I may want to see like a face caress. So that's my note to like, let's put the hand on the face or let's get a shot of the hand going down the small of her back. Or when you grab his arm, instead of just moving it across, let's make sure that we get a close up on the hand and that they're grabbing you. So there are other things that we can do to show intimacy aside from just the simulation of sex. There's touch, there is caressing, there's kisses, gentle kisses, there's stroking in a different type of way. There's ways that you maybe out coach to arch your back in a certain way so that I know that a feeling is happening. I've had several scenes where I'm going to think of the most appropriate way to say this manual stimulation was happening for someone. But it obviously wasn't really happening right. And my note was, even though this isn't really happening right, you see the person's hand go down out of frame. There has to be a point where the person that is receiving the manual stimulation, I need to know that happened. And so it's working with the actor to make sure, okay, at this point, let's make sure your upper body shows me that something is happening below the frame and that like you're enjoying it and what that is, what's happening for you. So just making sure that people are into not just with the act, but you know what that act brings about in their bodies totally. And then that they're conveying the emotional intimacy along with it.
- [33:35]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So is there any conversation with the actors in a scene kind of beforehand, like where you're almost like, do it. Maybe like a. Not a session, but like a, okay, let's get to know each other a little better. Or like, you know, how are you setting up? Or is. Are they just going into this room cold with this stranger doing these very intimate things?
- [33:52]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Usually not for me. I will meet with them well before the scene actually happens the first time, if it's for a show. If you think about most shows having 8, 10, 12 episodes. Right? I'm meeting with them before the first episode, episode, hey, it's me. I'm gonna be talking to you about all of these things, introducing myself, getting into it with. With what the director wants for those first batch of episodes, and then really getting to know them as a person, what they like, what they don't. In one of my more recent shows, I had a. An actress who is just like, I don't care what's coming down, I'm never gonna wanna do tongue. That's just not gonna happen for me. I know there are a lot of kissing scenes. I don't mind kissing, but I think we can do it without tongue. I'm not trying to catch nothing. And I said, okay, that's fine. Doesn't stop me from asking her every time, because I have to. But I do know, like from the jump, because we know each other, we have this understanding, okay? This is non negotiable for her. She's not going to want to do that. So I can talk to then my director about, like, look, based on our previous work, I know that this actor will want to do this, won't want to do that. We'll still have the conversation. But I think it does take, I think, an episode or two or a conversation or two to get to that level of comfort to where you just know your actors. I say all that to say again, it doesn't mean that you don't continue to ask the same question that you've always asked. I will repeatedly ask about any kind of touch boundaries or kiss boundaries. That. Because, as you know, as a therapist, people hold things in their bodies, they hold trauma in many areas and they hold just memories of things that have happened to them, good and bad. And we want to make sure that in each and every scene and with each and every scene partner, things can change over time. And just because I felt comfortable kissing this person in the last scene, doesn't mean I'm going to be comfortable kissing them in the next scene. Just because I allowed this actor to touch me in this way doesn't mean I want that actor to touch me in this way. This way. And so we have to, as intimacy coordinators, get to a point where we can just ask those questions and make sure that our actors understand. I know I just asked you this, but I got to ask you again because we're talking about a whole different scene and a whole different scenario. Is this still okay? And I think that helps. Like, that helps with everything. I feel like our Actors feel like, okay, yes, it's insane that you're asking me the same question again. But I'm glad because you're not just taking into account or assuming that I'm okay with it every time, because I'm on the off chance that I'm not. I want to be able to say that.
- [36:38]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right, right.
- [36:39]
So, Dr. Tiff, what does Aftercare look like, especially in scenes where there may have been like some sexual violence?
- [36:46]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Aftercare is going to be different. Unfortunately. I will say this. Aftercare is very different based on, in my perspective, based on the set and the production. There are some productions that are more open to it than others. I've been very lucky to have been on a few sets where it was prioritized and thought about prior to filming. A lot of times Aftercare is one of those things that is thought about after the fact. There is one set that I worked on and I was actually not hired as the intimacy coordinator. I was hired as what they called a sensitivity coordinator because they knew going into production that the material would be highly sensitive, not just for cast, but for crew as well. And so they brought me in just to work on just making sure everybody felt okay when we were doing some really tough, mentally challenging and draining scenes. And I thought it was a brilliant move on that production. I've also worked on other productions where I've suggested the need for that. And it was just, ah, we don't have it. It's not in the budget. We don't think it should be fine. If they have a problem, they can talk to their supervisor. It's best if it's proactive. And I don't necessarily know that every show needs it. I do know that we need to have access to address whatever issues may come up for us because we're all carrying around or going through something and who knows what might trigger any kind of emotion or feeling or anything. Aftercare is not a standard and intimacy coordination is still relatively new. I wish and I hope and I pray that the future of our sets and the safety on sets includes more mental health access and availability. Because I think as we start doing all of the things and telling the stories, it becomes very heavy and it becomes, I think, for so many. And again, not just our cast, but crew too are exposed to so much. And you don't know what is traumatizing for folks. You don't know what their. What everybody's lived experience is. And not only that, we're talking about individuals that are working 12 hour days or more that aren't getting to see their families as much as they should, that probably aren't exercising like they should, aren't eating as they should, that just need the support. And so to have that would be a humongous blessing and an absolute game changer in this industry.
- [39:20]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So you mentioned there are actors and actresses that you've worked with, like, maybe in different projects. How do you actually end up a part of a project? Like, would it be that an actor would say, hey, I'm not doing anything if Dr. Tipp is not here? Like, she has to be here if I'm doing any of this. Is it typically from the production company that they will say, okay, we need to have a coordinator here? How do you get involved?
- [39:41]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
I've had very positive relationships with many of my actors, but I usually get hired a couple of ways. One, I have an agent. So some stuff comes through my agent, some stuff comes through my previous work. So a lot of times a production coordinator or production supervisor, the film community is a very. Is big, but it's small. And the UPMs or line producers, they'll do this show and then they have their next show lined up and their next show lined up in. Their next show lined up. And so what tends to happen is if you do a good job, a lot of times they want to bring the same crew to the next production. And so that a lot of times is what happens for me is I'll, you know, I was on one show and the first AD from that show went to this show and they needed an intimacy coordinator. And it's always, well, who did you work with last time? Or have you worked with anybody that you really like? Oh, yeah, I work with Dr. Tiff. Let's see if she's available. And then I get the call and then that's it. Sometimes I've been reached out to specifically because I'm black. Like, the production might be a all black cast and they're seeking out a black intimacy coordinator. And I check that box and so I get the call for that. But I would say 90% of my referrals are like word of mouth. Probably 10% is from my agent. I think with any profession that you're in, I don't rely on social media at all for those jobs, really, because I'm lazy. And I have an Instagram account for my IC work, but I don't update it. I don't have time. So, yeah, that's pretty much how it all happens.
- [41:30]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Got it.
- [41:30]
Okay. Okay. I mean, it sounds like you're booked and busy without it, so you don't really need it.
- [41:36]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
I'm booked enough. I'm booked enough right now. I'm managing three shows, and it's more than enough. One is ending in a couple weeks, which will be great, and then I'm gonna do the two throughout the summer. Someone will have to be really phenomenal for me to take on another project. But I also like to vacation. I like to be beach. So this is getting into my beach time, and this is not that has to be protected. Say where it is. I am like, how did I end up working throughout this? I'm rethinking it. But it'll be nice to have some beach money, though.
- [42:07]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah, exactly. You need that. You need that. So you mentioned that, you know, some of the times you get casted because people are looking specifically for a black intimacy coordinator. And I really feel like, you know, even in the beginning with you started talking about, like, having your experiences in grad school and seeing Su Johansson and thinking like, oh, this is something that I want to do, I feel like you were really on the cutting edge, right? Like, now it feels like we see a lot of mental health professionals talking about sexuality, and, like, that is more of a conversation. But I feel like you were one of the people doing it before, like, social media started really popping, and, like, we saw people talking about it. How do you feel like, like, that impacts the work that you do, and, like, how are you bringing your black womanness onto the set to help you approach the work you do as an intimacy coordinator?
- [42:50]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Man, I can't leave her behind. I show up, and I am black. Blackity black. I have to come in as unapologetically who I am, because that's who's going to show up regardless. I could try, but I just have to be me. And I find that the more me that I am, the more people appreciate the me that I am, and they appreciate me showing up and just being who I am. I will say for. And I'm looking. I'm just trying to think right before we went on, like, how many shows have I been on where it has been, like, a predominantly black cast and it hasn't been very many? And the referrals that I've gotten, like, from those line producers or supervising producers or production coordinators, they haven't been black production coordinators or supervisors or line producers, but they recognize my talent, they recognize my ability. They recognize the way that I communicate with not just my actors, but with production as well. What that says to me is show up as authentically as you can be exactly who you are, because that's the thing that is going to eventually come out, and you don't want to have to worry about keeping that part up. Understand that you're coming in to do a job, do it the best that you possibly can, and the right situations will find you. You won't have to do much to continue on that trajectory. I can't imagine not leading with it. I can't imagine not leading with it. And I know it's hard, you know, I know it's hard for us, especially in these spaces where we don't see ourselves. But I think it's super important that we understand that we. We wouldn't be in those spaces if we weren't meant to be in those spaces. So even if you don't see yourself, perhaps you're the first one that other people need to see in order to recognize that they can do it. When I started doing sex therapy, I didn't see, like, someone of color like me. And what I ended up realizing was that I became the first black certified sex therapist in the state of Georgia. That wasn't a goal that I set out, but it wasn't until after that happened that I realized, oh, shit, hey, look at your girl. And then I had mentees and people. You know, when I taught, master's students, master's clinicians that were looking to get into this field, they did that because of me, because of the example that I did. I say all that to say, like, even if you don't see the person of color, if you see a person, know that if they did it, it doesn't matter that you don't look like them or don't have the same aesthetics as them or don't have the same background as them. If it's been done, you can do it and be the first. Don't be afraid of being the first. Just do it. Do it. Step out, Step out and own it. If God put the dream in your heart, it is yours to have and to hold. He will make a way for you to claim it.
- [45:50]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
More from our conversation after the break. Have you heard the news? Therapy for black girls is launching our community on Patreon.
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Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve, you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [48:10]
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- [48:44]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So thinking more about like all black cast. So I don't know. Did you watch Insecure?
- [48:49]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
I did.
- [48:50]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So you probably remember Condom Gate, right? When there were lots of conversations about like oh, we see a lot of sex on Insecure but we never see like condom rappers. So as somebody who might have Been like on the set or like helping, you know, to kind of think through some of those things. What were your thoughts? Or when things like that happen in pop culture, how do you look at that as an intimacy question?
- [49:08]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
You know, I don't even know if I remember that much conversation about it. I do know that just from my perspective in having worked on shows where, you know, young people are having sex or we want to show these things, but these people, maybe they're not married or maybe they're having sex with multiple partners or whatever. That's always a conversation that I like to initiate. It's a couple of them. Are we saying as a production or as like that these people, like they're in college, they're having lots of sex with lots of partners? Are we saying that they're not using condoms? Are we ever going to show that condoms are a thing? Because like, you have to think about the implications just beyond like these particular characters. Like, what is the production saying? What is the network saying? Like, if this is on free form, for example, is the message that we're not using condoms what we want to say versus like HBO or, you know, you kind of have to think about that. That is something that I think about as an ic. I also think about this is a good one. And I think it's annoying to me more than anything when people are having simulated sex. I think it is important. I think it's critical if it's a male identified and female identified partner that we see somebody's hand go down to make sure the penis makes its way into the vagina. I don't think penises magically find their way into vaginas. But when we see sex scenes, a lot of times they just start making love. And I think we know that somebody got to put something somewhere in order for it to go where it's supposed to go. It doesn't magically find its way into. And so little details like that I think we have to make sure happen because it's. There's an adjustment period, there's a movement, there's. We gotta find a way. So little things like that are like, I don't know, like pet peeves for me. I want to see it, I want to make sure that happens. And when we do like things like condom use, I'm a stickler for like, please don't tear that rapper. Please don't do that, Please don't do that. Because it's just, it's a sex education thing. Like there are so many different things that just should happen, and they don't always, but if I'm on set, I'm going to at least say something about it. And if they choose not to go in that direction, that's fine.
- [51:22]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So you mentioned that you've been on other sets as, like, sensitivity coordinators. And to me, it feels like that's an extension of, like, intimacy coordinators. Right? Like, especially I've seen articles and things written about stories that especially, like, if slavery is portrayed or there's a lot of, like, heavy racial trauma. They want somebody like a sensitivity coordinator on set. What are your thoughts about, like, how the field of incident intimacy coordinators and sensitivity coordinators will expand maybe in the next couple of years?
- [51:51]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
I definitely think intimacy coordinator, like, they're going to be there. We're in the process of becoming in full partnership with SAG AFTRA. I've been a member of SAG since about 2011, but in the field of broadcasting. So I've backdoored my way in. But now it is being recognized, and that will become evident in, like, all of our contracts and making sure that we're paid a certain base rate and all of those things. So I feel really confident about where intimacy coordination is going, especially as we join the union as intimacy coordinators. In sensitivity and mental health, they tend to be brought in as consultants, and I think intimacy coordinators were initially as well, because television and film is so different. There's not always a need. You know what? Check me in a couple years because I may think through this and think about it very differently. I don't know that there's always a need for a mental health professional to be on set. I do think there needs to be availability of mental health professionals all the time in every line of work. I do think that we're going to start to see more of it, though. The first place that I saw it, actually, I worked on Till the Movie Till, and they brought me in for a scene where there were some body touches. But I was brought in because I was referred by the mental health person on set. They had a mental health person on set there who's a dear friend of mine, and she brought me in to do that work. And then after that, I worked with Nat Geo on Genius Season 4, which was MLKX, and they brought me in specifically to do the sensitivity stuff. And then I ended up signing a separate contract to do some intimacy work because they had some scenes that they needed somebody for, but they weren't sure that they were going to. And it was like, yeah, you do. So I Was able to do that. Right now I'm working on a project which I can't talk about the name, but I can tell you that was one of the things that I recommended when I came in just to interview is that just based on what I'm seeing, I think that we have a real need and a real opportunity. Opportunity for a mental health component and someone to be here, dedicated for this show. And thankfully, they took that and ran, and we have somebody on set. We also have a team where our cast and crew can meet with them whenever they need to. So I think that we're going in that direction. I don't know if it will happen with every set in every production, but I think we're going there. There's certainly some overlap. There are certainly things that I could handle. I'm a license. Licensed clinician. Right. I could handle it. Because as black woman, we can do a lot of different things. And just because I can do it doesn't mean that I need to do it or should do it or should have to do it. And so I'm very proud of myself for recognizing that and bringing that up in my interview and really pushing back and saying, it can't be me. It cannot be me. Because I've read every script, and I know what's coming down the pike. And I have an idea that if I were to take that on. What do they say? You get blood out of a turnup?
- [54:59]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah.
- [54:59]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Right.
- [55:00]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Because you probably would be compensated. Right. Like they would compensate you for the one role, but then have you doing all these different things.
- [55:06]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Yes, absolutely. But also, I think they would have paid me to do both. They would have had to pay me to both. I wasn't gonna do both and then not pay me, But I don't want to. I don't want to be worked like that. I would be there every day. I wouldn't be able to get nothing done for myself. I'm trying to get some beach time. Right.
- [55:23]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [55:23]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
I'm trying to. To see my husband. I'd like intimate time with my husband. Okay. Or to go see my daughter play, to swim, or to do whatever. Like, I have to understand. And I think that's the growth of being someone in a helping profession. I have to understand what my needs are, to advocate for those and see where I'm starting to get sucked in. In places where, you know what? That ain't none of my business. I could do it. But you know what? Right now, I'm choosing not to. I'm choosing to do what I Can do, I don't have the capacity for it to do all of that. And so even though I can, and I'm very much trained to do it, don't want to.
- [56:04]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
So I would imagine there's probably some people enjoying our conversation, particularly therapists who are thinking like, oh, this would be so cool to get into. What would you suggest for people in terms of, like, maybe doing more research or how would somebody get some started in becoming an intimacy coordinator?
- [56:20]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Well, I would say, because not every therapist wants to talk about sex and intimacy. That's not their niche. So make sure if this is the road that you feel most comfortable with and you can make other people feel comfortable with. And so once you know that, I would say just put in a search for training or certification to be an intimacy coordinator. There are different programs that come up. IPA is one of them, IDC and others. I'm not going to try and remember them all, but there are others. And then just do that research. Figure out like, okay, this one sounds a little bit more like something that I want to do, or this one is in my area, or this one has more like online components because I don't have time to be traveling. You'll figure that part out. And then I would just have some conversations, meet up with and talk to reach out to people that are already doing the work. What is sad, and this was sad for me, and it still is sad now, we weren't really able to do a lot of shadowing because of COVID Like when I started before then, I think that ICs had a lot more access to being able to go on set. But after Covid, not so much. Or during COVID not so much. Like, they really did limit the number of people that could be on set to the people that absolutely needed to be there. And they were doing so much testing that you just really couldn't have anybody that wasn't in the queue. I think they're starting to allow people to have assistance or to bring in somebody. If you can find that, that would be great. But I would say do as much research as you can. Make phone calls, ask people, offer to take an ICL to coffee. Perhaps she'll go, and you can pick their brain or just ask them questions about their work, how they got in. Because my story is unique to me. There are other people that have gotten in a different way. Like I said, I have a couple of friends who are stunt performers. And because they're stunt performing and IC work is very similar in that they're. They were Coordinating these physical activities between people. And so it was an easier way in for them because they were already doing some of that work. And so if you're interested in one area and don't be afraid to, like, just get on set. I think one of the benefits that I had is I had been on sets before, so a lot of things I knew about set culture. But there is a great benefit to knowing what it's like to be on set in any capacity. So if you have the availability to be a pa, I'm not saying you have to start as a page, but if you want to just get acclimated to being on set, a PA is a great way to go. Or if you want to use your talent gift. But maybe in a different area, let's say you're great, maybe you work as a graphic designer and this is the area that you feel like you, like, figure out a way to get yourself in the industry as a designer of some sort, maybe in the art department or whatever. And then figure out, I think the more that you're on set, you'll start to see, like, so many windows of opportunity and things that you didn't even know existed that you. You are interested in. So it may be intimacy, coordination, it may be something else, but just don't be afraid to look outside of the box for sure.
- [59:33]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you so much for that, Dr. Tiffin, for all of the things you shared today. I feel like I've learned so much and really appreciate you sharing all that with us. Where can people stay connected with you? So you said you're on social, but not really.
- [59:45]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
No, I just don't post my. Oh, you just don't post intimacy stuff.
- [59:48]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Okay.
- [59:49]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
On. On the page that I'm supposed to, because I can't manage another page. Dr.
- [59:54]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I hear you.
- [59:55]
Merck HPV Vaccination Sponsor Voice 2
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- [59:55]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
It's too much. Too much. So I would say here's how you get in touch with me, if you will. Follow me at. Dr. Tiffany TV on Instagram. D R T I F F A N I E T V on Instagram. I think that's a great place to start because I post there the most. I also have a podcast, intimate details, with Dr. Tiff. And we're getting ready to go into a new season. We just finished up kind of season, season three. We're getting ready to go into season four. And that season, I'm 99, sure is going to be all about purpose. And so it's a great place to start, especially if you're a woman, if you're a black woman. If you're somebody who's just like trying to figure it out, as we all are in 2025, that's a really good place to start. And so some things of that nature are coming up probably within the coming weeks. If you go to my Instagram, you'll be able to sign up and subscribe to my newsletter. I am coming out with a program for women. My primary work is in helping women learn how to effortlessly attract the love that they want to call in, primarily by focusing on their own growth and transformation. And I'm so excited about the programs that we have coming up for that. I'm doing a year long program, I believe. I thought it was going to be 12 weeks. Weeks, but it's going to be a year. So that's something that's coming up as well. But you'll find out all of that on Instagram because that's usually where I. I mean, I have the capacity for that. There's also a YouTube channel, Dr. Tiffany TV, like put in my name, you'll find me perfect. And I'm there. So. Okay.
- [61:33]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
All right, beautiful. We'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes so that the people can follow you because I have a feeling that they're going to be very interested in the work and especially this class. It sounds like very interesting.
- [61:43]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
So it's going to be amazing. Yeah, it's going to be amazing. I'm super excited about it.
- [61:47]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Very excited to hear. Thank you so much for Joining me today, Dr. Tiffany. I appreciate it.
- [61:51]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate you having me. Anytime.
- [61:58]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I'm so glad Dr. Tiff was able to join me for today's episode to learn more about her and the work she's doing. Be sure to visit the show notes at therapy for black girls.com session 405. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know you can leave us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast? If you want to suggest a movie or a book for us to review or share thoughts about other topics we should discuss on the podcast, drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. You just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve Card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by J.P. morgan, Chase Bank, N.A. member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [64:19]
Dr. Tiffany (Dr. Tiff Henry)
This is an iHeart podcast.