HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (3:48)

Of twins if you're familiar with far off drop offs dad, stop.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (3:51)

Stop.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (3:51)

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (4:05)

For most, HPV clears on its own, but for those who don't clear the virus, it it can cause certain cancers later in life.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (4:11)

Embrace this phase. Help protect them in the next.

Morgan DeBaun (4:13)

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination Brought to you by Merck.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (4:22)

Morgan Devon is a visionary entrepreneur, strategist and the powerhouse founder and CEO of Blavity, Inc. A digital media empire dedicated to amplifying the voices of Black millennials and equipping them with the tools to thrive. Over the past decade, she has redefined what it means to create economic equity, using storytelling, wealth building and advocacy to uplift underrepresented communities. A trailblazer in media and tech, Morgan has secured $13 million in venture capital for Blavity, expanding its influence across news, culture and professional development. She's also the force behind Afrotech, one of the largest Black tech conferences in the nation, fostering innovation and generational wealth in the industry. Morgan continues to inspire as a mentor, investor and speaker, and with her new book, Rewrite youe Rules, she's guiding professionals to create a bespoke frame for their success, one that prioritizes authenticity, ambition and financial empowerment on their own terms. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag tbginsession. Here's our conversation.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (5:36)

So good to see you again, Morgan.

Morgan DeBaun (5:38)

It's good to see you too.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (5:40)

I always like to do a check in with the authors because I know what this ramp up time must be feeling like. So how are you doing? How are you taking care of yourself right now?

Morgan DeBaun (5:50)

I'm feeling good. I did a rotten bed weekend, as much as one can with a toddler. And yeah, just spent some time at home chilling before the travel schedule gets crazy.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (6:02)

Yeah, that's good. That's much needed. So tell me about rewrite the rules. At what moment did you know I need to write this down and offer it to the world?

Morgan DeBaun (6:11)

From an early age, I felt like all the rules and expectations that were put on me were things I just wasn't going to follow. Like, I was just one of those people where it's like, you told me to go left, why can't I go right? I'm happy to go left, but what's wrong with right? And I think that was something that helped me along the way as I was like building businesses and buying companies was this idea of like, well, why can't I do it this other way? Who says that when you first start a company, you have to wait 10 or 15 years before you acquire another company? Who says that I can't raise money? Who says that I can't do these things? And I think that it just became part of my success criteria was being able to say, hmm, if this doesn't work for me, then I can just change it. And leaning into that has been one of the greatest ways that I've been able to defy the odds and actually really also advise and work with people around me.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (7:07)

So we had a podcast episode called Shedding the Shoulds. And so as I was reading your book, that episode came to mind because I think that there are a lot of shoes that we have, especially as black women. Right. So when you talk about that in your book, what are some of the shoes you feel like you have had to unlearn and let go of throughout your life?

Morgan DeBaun (7:25)

So many. I mean, I remember the first one more recently was when I was thinking about moving. So I moved from L. A and left the big cities and moved to Nashville, Tennessee. And even to this day when I say when people like, oh, you live in New York or you live in la, and I'm like, no, I live in Nashville, Tennessee. Everyone's like, so surprised because there's this perception that in order to be successful, you have to live on a big coast or in a big city, and that if you're not living in one of those cities, then you're throttling your success to an extent and you're not Maximizing your success. And it was a bit of an ego hit. Like, people's initial reactions, like I wasn't expecting it. And so when I would introduce myself, I would find myself saying, but I just moved from la or like, I lived in LA or started my company in California, in Silicon Valley, to try to provide context that I was relevant. And then over time, I was like, wait, who gives a shit? Like, I am successful already. Like, I'm already doing the things. I own this company. We're growing. We make an impact every single day. I don't need to justify my location as a fully remote company to anybody besides my board, really. So I think there's been many times in my life that I have asked myself, why am I feeling friction? Why am I feeling like I am over emphasizing something or my brain is over processing something? And oftentimes it's a reaction to being perceived by somebody else.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (8:56)

So the book is, you are the CEO of a huge company. And I think many people will be surprised to find that the book is not really just about being a CEO in terms of entrepreneurship. You talk about it as being the CEO of our lives. So talk about some of the things that you feel like you have learned in business that you feel like really helped translate to other people taking care of themselves in their lives.

Morgan DeBaun (9:17)

Yeah, I believe everybody should consider themselves the CEO of their lives, because whether they do or not, they are. They are the person who is making the decisions. They're managing their own. P and L. Your profit and loss statement, how much money's coming in, how much expenses are going out, they're deciding and building the team around them. And if they're looking for a team or a village to help them with their kids, their career, that's an organizational chart, whether you like it or not. And the more that you can develop a mindset and a framework to help you think through. Okay, I want to quit my job one day. Okay, great, you're clear. Why do you want to quit your job? Okay, I want to quit my job because I want more freedom. Okay. Is quitting your job going to actually give you more freedom? Let's talk about that. Going deeper, helping people. This book is designed to help people think through the question, underneath the question, and to help them and give them framework so they can do that. And what I learned through Blavity was I started off with as an entrepreneur, where my identity was tied to my company. You could literally walk down the street in San Francisco and be like, hey, Blavity. And I would turn around because that's how much it was tied to who I was. And over time, I realized, wait, there is no end to entrepreneurship. There's no finishing entrepreneurship. It's a part of my identity. So I need to figure out how I'm going to have a full life. A full life full of love and fun and joy and not just success at work. And that is really where I said, okay, you got to do something different. You got to get off this hamster wheel. For me, that looked like finding my life partner, having a family. For me, it looks like different than what it might look like for you or someone else listening to this. Yeah.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (11:07)

And it feels like that is kind of what you talk about in the book, about finding your purpose. Right. And like really identifying your purpose and then not being tied to other people. Right. So your identity as a business owner, your identity as a mom or a wife. And so I think that that can be hard because I think that is kind of what many of us are socialized to kind of show up as is like this thing. How do you help to kind of tease that out? Especially because I think it is interesting to hear you talk about it, like, on the other side of the success. Right. But I think a lot of people who will pick this up will be young women who are kind of wanting to follow in your footsteps and be successful. So what would you say to them before they even find themselves needing to look back and redo some things?

Morgan DeBaun (11:45)

Yeah, it's called your purpose principle. It's basically this idea that your purpose has to be tied to you. And just like you're saying your purpose can't be for the betterment of other people's happiness, it has to be based off your intrinsic happiness. So let's take a mom, for example. Right? There's a lot of women who, they're like, I'm a mom. That is my thing. Whether you're a stay at home mom or a working mom, doesn't matter. You're still like, I'm a mom and that's part of my identity. And it's like, okay, yes, that is your title, that is your role, and parenting is part of your responsibility. But you're more than just one thing. And momming, it's not a verb. So what about being a mom is core to who you are? Is it nurturing? Is it teaching? Is it wellness and care providing? What is it about the title? And I think that's what I'm really pushing people in the book to consider. It's not just the title. It's not just I'm a wife. It's. I enjoy building somebody else up and being there for them and listening to them, because it's based off your enjoyment. And when you start with that center, it's really hard for people. It's very difficult to do because it actually does require you to be selfish. And a lot of the world is telling us, don't be selfish. And a lot of people are unhappy, I think, because of that.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (13:09)

So what would you say to people who are listening, who are thinking, like, okay, I want to be more selfish. I want to dive in and feel my. You know, figure out what my purpose is. How do I get started in figuring that out?

Morgan DeBaun (13:20)

So the first thing is to figure out what you're doing naturally. Like, when no one is looking. If no one was paying you, what could you do all day, all night? So for me, one of those things is painting. Like, I could sit in with my watercolors. I don't care how crappy the watercolors are. I could just paint up store, because that's just part of who I am, and it's part of something that I enjoy. It's creativity or. Same thing with gardening. I'm a very bad gardener. I kill pretty much everything. But I love the attempt. Like, I went to Home Depot this weekend. Actually, I went to Lowe's because Home Depot doesn't stand for D and I. But I went to Lowe's, I was going to Home Depot, and then I was reminded. So I went to Lowe's, and I bought cucumbers. Is it too early for cucumbers? Yeah, probably. But I'm traveling, so I wanted to get them in the ground and just pray that there's no frost, because I want to do it. It makes me happy. So for anyone who's trying to figure out who am I and what's my purpose and what is my purpose and identity outside of these roles or titles that I carry at work or in my home life? Think about what you're doing naturally. Is it baking? Is it because you enjoy putting meals together, nourishing meals for your family? Is it you enjoy driving? I mean, there's no judgment on what it is that you enjoy. It's really hard to do. What would you say yours is?

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (14:37)

Oh, what would I say mine is?

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (14:42)

I think connecting. Yeah, connecting.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (14:44)

Yeah, I think connecting the dots and connecting people. Mm. Yeah.

Morgan DeBaun (14:48)

Yeah, I think that's right. You do things that are irrational because you enjoy the exercise of connectivity.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (14:56)

Yeah, right.

Morgan DeBaun (14:58)

And that has turned into a career, and that has turned into this show, and that has turned into all these other things. And that's fantastic. But the reason why it's important to have a purpose principle is because when something hits the fan and something doesn't work out, if it's tied to an outcome and not just tied to the enjoyment, then it becomes really difficult to work through.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (15:18)

So how do you help? And you lay this out in the book, like, how to help people get over the heel when they do eventually run into things. Right. Because whether you're just running your life or running your business, there are always obstacles to overcome. So what are some of the steps for kind of moving past those obstacles?

Morgan DeBaun (15:33)

Yeah. So one of the chapters is all about fear, because fear, it's broken down into so many different things. But for me, fear is broken down into fear of success, fear of failure. And you have to identify what is the thing that's holding you back. Like, what is that mindset framework that you need to work through that is causing you not to reach your full potential or not to be able to push forward. So there's a variety of different chapters in the book that identify some of these things. But let's just talk about fear. So for me, what I suggest is that you get more comfortable being bad at things. So I just told you all straight up, I'm a bad gardener. I still do it. The more you become comfortable with it, this is through exposure therapy. Then you're able to basically ground yourself in the reality that it's just not that bad. What's the worst thing that could happen? They say, no, the cucumber dies. You don't get the extra upgrade at the hotel room that you asked for at the front lobby. Whatever the it is, it just helps you practice this idea that failure is not actually the worst outcome that your brain is thinking through. And same thing with fear of success. There were times in my career where I literally would not respond to emails or go to events because I didn't want the responsibility of all the people wanting something from me and those new connections. I'm an introvert, maybe unlike you. So I was like, more people wanting things from me. No, thank you. So I was literally fearful of people noticing my value and then wanting to move forward and collaborate or do something next because I didn't feel like I had the capacity to succeed with those folks. I was partially scared of operating at that level. I was partially scared of okay, and then what? What if I can't handle all these things that will come my way if I go to this conference? And I leave the conference room. What if I can't handle all the emails that come in my way? Once an investor says, yeah, I'm interested in this deck, well, now I've got to actually respond to the pitch deck and actually make the call and make the ask. So I had to work through both my fear of failure at times and my fear of success. But being able to actually manage those is what has been my ability to get to the next level. And I think for most people listening to this, you are 100% capable of getting anywhere that you want to go in life. But just like a CEO, it's your responsibility to make the tough calls and to fix whatever thing you need to work through.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (18:02)

More from our conversation after the break.

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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (19:18)

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Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (20:49)

Terms apply Parents of Tweens if you're.

HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (20:52)

Familiar with far off drop offs dad, stop.

Morgan DeBaun (20:54)

Stop.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (20:54)

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (21:08)

For most, HPV clears on its own, but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (21:14)

Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next.

Morgan DeBaun (21:17)

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination brought to you by Merck.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (21:24)

I'm glad you bring that up Morgan, because I think fear of success is often a bigger fear for people. Like I think we talk a lot about a fear of failure, but I think, you know, we're getting more comfortable talking about like what happens once you are successful and then there's this next step, right? There's this next scaling and you are no stranger to that, right? Like you scaled your companies. Levity is like one umbrella company with tons of things underneath. And so what are some of the.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (21:47)

Challenges and how have you managed to.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (21:49)

Kind of navigate the fear of success and figuring out how to scale and put yourself in new rooms and do the continuing expanding that you've done?

Morgan DeBaun (21:57)

You know, the thing is at our company there's a lot of fear all the time because we are changing so much. We are constantly evolving and we're evolving in a time where the market is changing right underneath us. So we may say we've got a good plan to manage traffic and advertising and then the algorithm changes, right? And so everybody's been heads down for six months working on this thing and then that thing doesn't matter anymore and that can be really frustrating. And some people have been like, I don't want to be a part of this because it's hard, because you've put this time in. The time in is not necessarily getting the outcome that you asked for or that you wanted. And the question really is, how do you become okay with. I'm going to do my best, and I'm going to give it my best effort, my max effort, as I call it in the book. And then I'm going to let the chips fall where it may. The outcome is the outcome, and I'm going to be okay with the outcome. I'm going to address it head on. I'm going to look at the data, and then I'm going to make a decision and decide what I want to do next. And then how do you speed up that innovation cycle? And I think the thing with success and fear is, like, the faster that you can speed up your innovation cycle, the faster you can make decisions and take action, get a result, and then start over again. That's actually how people get to the next level. It's not that they're better at, like, the thing, they're better at being successful or they're better at failure. They do it faster. Mm.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (23:23)

How have you taken care of your.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (23:24)

Mental health throughout all of these changes? Scaling your companies, writing the book? I mean, there's just so many layers here. What kinds of things have been really critical for you in terms of taking care of your mental health?

Morgan DeBaun (23:35)

You know, I'll be honest. I haven't always been good at it. I mean, there's definitely times I'd say year three to six at Blavity was pretty rough. Rough for me, rough for our employees. Rough time pre Covid. During COVID And I talk about that a little bit. Like, what do you do when you wake up in the morning and you're like, I don't even like being the CEO of this group. Like, you guys all hate me. And I don't like me either. I don't want to make these decisions. I don't want to be the person deciding our payroll and our benefits and our running the checks to the bank. I don't want to do this either. What do you do when you wake up and you don't like you? And for me, the first thing that I practiced was meditation, was like just getting centered. Meditation, I think, helped me get grounded when I felt like my brain was all over the place. And then the second thing was hire help. And I hired people who were experts at things that I had a lot of anxiety around experts in finance, legal, et cetera. And then eventually I hired a therapist when I was moving from LA to Nashville and I was making that big transition. And the reason I made that transition was, again, because I was trying to rebalance how I was spending my time so that I had more time for myself and less time for the business, which had completely taken over my life. And I wanted someone to hold me accountable to that commitment because I knew how easy it was going to be to just go with the flow and to go with all the things that people wanted from me all the time. And so I hired a therapist that I could walk to her couch, and every two weeks I walk to that couch, and she would hold me accountable to what I said I wanted to do. I did that for about six months until I felt like, okay, I feel like we've gone through this transition and we have those habits. And then I'm kind of one of those people who hires therapists as, like, advisors. So I have an executive coach. Then I also have a therapist currently that's a relationship therapist because my fiance is also a entrepreneur. So we have a lot going on in our house, and so just helping us through that transition of wedding and babies and all of the things that go into building a life together.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (25:49)

So it sounds like you're really kind of identifying these six pillars that you talk about in the book. Right. That are necessary for you to be the visionary of a company and your own life. Can you talk more about those pillars and how people might do some assessing in their own lives?

Morgan DeBaun (26:01)

Yeah. So the pillar framework. There's six pillars that I basically live by, and I suggest most people live by them as well. At any given point, you can prioritize three of them, and this is where people are like, oh, man, you know, I would love to. You cannot do all the things you just can't. Like that whole saying of, like, you can have it all, but not at the same time. I completely agree with that. You absolutely can have it all. But you got to prioritize a couple things first and then put everything else in maintenance mode. Just like if you're on a diet, just put it in maintenance mode. So the pillars are pretty straightforward. Stability. How stable do you feel? Do you feel grounded? Do you feel like things are chaotic? Freedom. Are you free to make your own decisions? Are you spending your time the way you want to spend your time? Is it dictated by yourself or is it dictated by others? Money? Do you have the discretionary income that you need? Or you want need first and then want passions. What are you doing? Just for you. Are you spending time doing something that makes you happy, that is not for monetary gain, but is purely for yourself? Relationships. Relationships with God, relationships with your community, relationships in your personal life. And then lastly, wellness. So how healthy are you? None of this matters if you don't feel good, if your mind is all over the place, if you don't feel grounded, but then also, of course, taking care of your body. And at any given point in any given season, these three are going to rotate. Of these six, three of them are going to rotate to the front. So right now, for me, freedom is a priority. Relationships. My family is super important. Got a young kid, he's a sponge, you know, he needs a lot of my time and attention. And then I'd probably say stability to some extent. It's a crazy world right now, and I'm doing my best to keep our company and our family stable despite everything going on in the world. Wellness. Your girl misses her Pilates appointments. Just canceled one last night. You're doing the best that we can out here. I had all intention of going, but I don't say, oh, man, like, I don't shame myself for canceling it. I let myself cancel it, you know, so certain things fall to the wayside. I still have all intentions of doing it, but I don't beat myself up if it doesn't happen.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (28:28)

I'm glad you added that because I was definitely going to ask, like, you know, because I think that is a lot of us get really critical of ourselves, right? And like, oh, I messed up my pillars and that kind of thing. But it is about giving yourself grace and like, okay, I can start over again tomorrow and figure out what the priority is going to be.

Morgan DeBaun (28:43)

You can change your pillars at any given point, and I recommend it. I do an audit of myself. Every quarter is just like, okay, what's the priority this upcoming quarter? Just like in business, every quarter, we've got a game plan. We have a goal. We know where we're going. We have risks that we have to actively manage, and we change our goals as things adjust. As the changes in the market happen, we might adjust our projections and manage our own expectations. That's fine. You know, we have to be willing to be flexible with how we operate in this world. But it is important, I believe, for everybody to have some clarity on where they're going.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (29:17)

And one of the ways that you talk about a lot in the book by that really offer you clarity is knowing your data. So what are the numbers? And as somebody who, like, doesn't always love to like, deal in the numbers, like, it's not my thing. I was like, she has a point here. Like, I can see it. So talk about the importance of being really data driven in our lives and like being aware of our numbers, both in business and personally.

Morgan DeBaun (29:39)

If there is one thing in the book that will change your life or thing at all, it's knowing your numbers. It's knowing what is happening in reality. Too many of us are just aware that data is around us, aware that our data is being tracked, aware that there's something on our watch, this clock in our steps. We're aware of it, but we're not using it to make informed decisions that could really make our lives easier. And this isn't just about work. This is in wellness, this is in relationships. I give examples in the book on how you can apply this to every single pillar, but the point of it is to get more comfortable saying and being really sitting in the truth of this is where I am. I can't tell you how many entrepreneurs ask me for advice or coaching and I say, well, how much money did you make last month? And they can't tell me. They can't tell me. Or I say, well, in the last six months, what's your product that's gotten you the best results? Like has. Has the highest product margin. They can't tell me. They can tell me what they want, they can tell me where they think they're going. Before we can even talk about where you're going, I need to understand what's working already so that we can build from your strengths, which is going to be easier than building from your weaknesses. Same thing with customers. Same thing with my sales team. When I'm coaching and advising our sales team and they're coming up with these big sales plans. They want to make a million dollars this year, $2 million this year, whatever. Don't send me a lead list that's from scratch. Show me what you made last year. Make me a list of all the accounts from last year and what they spent last year. And then make a decision on, is this going to grow? Is this going to decline? Then that's your baseline. Now we can figure out what the gap is from there. Okay, well, you're already at 650, so now we just got to get another 350 to be able to fill it in. Right? So knowing your data just really helps provide clarity on an actual realistic plan instead of a pie in the sky. Pipe dream that so many people are walking around with.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (31:44)

So you've kind of alluded to this a couple of times, Morgan, but Blavity, it sounds like, really took off for you in 2016 following the death of Michael Brown. Right. Like, you kind of found yourself feeling like, okay, I want to be doing more. And we find ourselves now where DEI is being slashed. So many rollbacks. And so as the CEO of the company that you lead. Right, Blavity, you find yourself, I think, at a very interesting intersection. So can you talk about how you think through the outside world and how it impacts what happens in your actual company?

Morgan DeBaun (32:15)

100%, man, it is really rough right now for everyone. It's rough for small business owners that are managing the political climate and the increasing costs of labor and the increasing costs of just cost of goods, whether your materials because you're in construction or the cost of the things that are being shipped in because you're in retail, whatever. It's expensive doing business today. More expensive today than it was two years ago, and certainly more expensive than five or 10 years ago. @ the same time, there's things that are outside of our control that are happening related to the political climate. For most black businesses, they had their best year ever in 2022 and maybe 2023, maybe early 2021 to 2023, they were getting local news. They were getting white people buying their products, and they never had white customers before. I mean, they were getting the spotlight. For blavity, it was an interesting time because we were also dealing with COVID and we have a huge events business, right? We have the largest tech conference in the world. That's for black audiences. We have a huge festival business, Blavity Fest, which is coming in Atlanta in a few months. And we had to figure out, how do you keep the community alive in a virtual world? So when it comes to managing macro risks, you got to figure out first what's in your control, which is pretty much nothing. And then you have to decide, okay, how risky am I going to be in this season? Am I going to try to beat the odds, or am I going to try to basically make the market? So for me, that looks like managing my expectations around goals. There's been years where I'm like, double it. Double the conference, double our revenue, double our profits. This year. I was like, honestly, cheaper to keep her. I'd be happy if we did what we did last year, but just a little bit more profitable. I'm not even going to sweat. Y' all just give me what you gave me last year and I'm going to figure out how to manage the cost on the back end. Like I have to manage my expectations because that's what realistic is looking like for today. And that helps me also manage the mental of my employees. If I go to an employee and I say, you got a double Afro Tech in a market in which all of our clients are pulling back on dei, they're going to look at me like I'm nuts and they're going to have a lot of anxiety. So part of my responsibility as a leader is to also set realistic expectations for the people around me so they can do their best work and they can be in their code of genius. So when it comes to D and I and even someone who might be listening to this and say, like, okay, well what do I do? Here's the thing. There's some fundamental businesses and there's fundamental services and values that aren't going to change. What do I mean by that? If your product is really good, it doesn't matter that you were black owned or not. Being black owned during a time where there was a lot of spotlight on us was helpful because it allowed us to get equal opportunity to access to the opportunity. It gave us access to the funding, it gave us access to more customers, it gave us access to retail shelves. But once you get on the shelves, your product should be good enough that you should be able to stay there. And here's the thing, nothing is required of these companies. These are for profit entities. So this entitlement to equal retention, if you're not performing at the same level as the other companies, they're not required for you to stay there. Because this is a for profit business. What was required was equal opportunity to get into the door. Now there's all these reasons for systemic racism where a lot of companies can't have equal value. Maybe they don't have access to funding, they don't have this right team. There's all these other reasons, but that's not that company's job. Their job was to give you access to the shelf at Target. It's up to you to stay there. And I think what we're seeing now is that all that grace that was given, it's just completely gone. But the real businesses that were really strong, they're still there. Just like Afro Tech is going to exist, we're going to be fine. Am I going to make as much money as I used to? Probably not. But it's going to exist and it's going to be fine.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (36:23)

So you would encourage entrepreneurs and people who maybe have been thinking about like, okay, how do I keep this thing afloat to really focus on like making a good product or making a good product.

Morgan DeBaun (36:34)

Yeah, like is it good? Take black out of it. Is your product good? Is your service good? Are you delivering on the promise for your customer? If you are a curly girl, you know I use Camille Rose on my hair this morning. It's a good product. Like it works. This softy, no crunch is good. So I don't care. This could be owned by a random Chinese man. It's not as black owned, but like it could be owned by somebody. It wouldn't matter. I use Olaplex. Why? Because it's good. I don't know who owns Olaplex. It's probably a private equity firm. I do not care because it works. Right. So be really excellent at what you do. So much so that people can't take it away from you when that opportunity becomes not trendy anymore.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (37:22)

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Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (38:10)

Many of us play lots of different roles in life. Partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere. I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve, you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (39:43)

Parents of Tweens if you're familiar with far off drop offs dad, stop.

Morgan DeBaun (39:46)

Stop.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (39:46)

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

HPV Vaccination PSA Male Voice (40:00)

For most, HPV clears on its own. But for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.

HPV Vaccination PSA Female Voice (40:06)

Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next.

Morgan DeBaun (40:09)

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination brought to you by Merck.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (40:17)

So one of the keys to your success has also been really leaning into community and like making the right hires. So I was really excited to hear you. You talk more about like meeting Jackie, I think, and kind of being the person who really helps to kind of ignite some of those early hires for blavity. And I think many of us are socialized to like be very quiet about the things we're struggling with. Right. And so I'm thinking like, if you had not shared with Jackie that I really need help in this area, you might not have had those hires that you did. How can people get more comfortable kind of peeling back the layers and being, you know, more honest and transparent about the things we're struggling with in our business businesses.

Morgan DeBaun (40:54)

You have to assume that most people are good and most people want to help if they can. And if you tell them exactly what you need, people will show up for you. And I've learned that even on this book tour, you know, I've had people text me and be like, I know you're not going to ask. So this is what I'm going to do to help you with your book tour, you know, and I'm like, you are so sweet. This is so helpful, you know, And I mean even you're like, yeah, of course, let's talk. Right? Like, so I think first is just starting from a place of abundance of most people want to help if they can. And so it's on you to identify how other people can help and make it easy for them. Now, my girlfriend Jackie, she was a receptionist at the time and she is just so lovable and she is so warm and she is so. She like loves people. She is. That is like one of her core pillars is like, I'm obsessed with just interesting people and I'm like, I would prefer to sit in the dark and code and sit with my laptop and figure out how to make this make sense. And so I was just like really struggling. And she. I was on her couch because I was raising money and I couldn't afford hotel rooms. She lives in Oakland, so I was raising money in the bay and I was just complaining and she was like, I can help you with that. I can help you find people to work for you. And even people that she hired are still with us at blavity today, 10 years later. I mean, that's how good of a recruiter she is and fundamentally changed our entire business because she was really good at persuading people to take this really, really risky step in their career. To work for a 26 year old black girl from St. Louis who had barely raised half a million dollars full time and be a part of this mission and this vision of this thing that we were trying to build. And I'm forever grateful to her. But I think the key of this story is you don't know who's in your own Rolodex. I mean, how many people do we go to high school or college with? And we look on LinkedIn and we're like, damn, girl, I didn't know you did that. Because you're still thinking of them in their high school or college days. You're not necessarily thinking them as somebody who's now the senior media buyer at l' Oreal who could be your first sponsor for your event that you're doing on the side. Right. So part of it is just teaching people to reframe their mindset around bartering and around building relationships and using the tribe that they have. You don't always have to spend money. Now Jackie is a boss Silicon Valley recruiter. Like I said, she went from receptionist to recruiter. We were her first client, so we were her first case study. Right. And that helped her on her trajectory. So you also never know who you're helping by giving them an opportunity to help you.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (43:39)

What kinds of boundaries and things need to be put in place when you are working with people kind of in your circle. Right. Because I think it's different if you just hire somebody off of Fiverr or something, where if it's your girl, you got to be careful. I think sometimes that can be excellent, like in your case, and sometimes not so good. So how do you think through kind of protecting the relationship and your business when you're hiring friends and family maybe?

Morgan DeBaun (44:00)

Yeah. I mean, there was a time when we fired each other. You know, Jackie is no longer a recruiter from Blabbity. And first things first, when I could afford to pay her, I did. I really tried to make sure that we had a clear transaction. I believe we had a contract, so we had a mutual understanding. And then the second thing that I did was make sure that it wasn't just me making decisions. Like, she went through the process of recruiting for other people, and they were evaluating her at the face level of being a recruiter, regardless of my relationship with her. Well, at least to the best of my ability. And I think that was really helpful. So I wasn't the only person interacting with her. And I think that allowed us to have some objectivity. And, like, when is this relationship at a point where I'm not a good client for you and you're not a good recruiter for us? And it's time for us to expand those options because we had other people in the room. So I think for anyone who's evaluating, when is it time to, you know, I got the homie helping me with legal. I've got the homie, like, coaching me on the side or whatever the it is. Figure out a way to be objective and make sure you have some sort of contract or some sort of milestone in place so that there's a natural end. So you might say a time frame, three months, six months. Or it might be if you're doing something like, hey, this person's going to help me with interior designing my house. Okay, cool. Like, provide some sort of cap. And I talk about this in the book, but, like, provide some sort of boundaries and cap to this relationship so that, you know, you're not short changing yourself and you're not short changing somebody you also care about.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (45:25)

Yeah, that's important. So something else you talk about is, like, the differences between contentment and happiness and how contentment really should be a goal for us as opposed to happiness. What are the differences for those things.

Morgan DeBaun (45:37)

In your mind when people ask you, you know, I want to be happy, I want to feel happy. People typically only say that when they don't feel happy. Like, when People are like, how's it going? I'm like, everything's going good because I'm content. So I think that we have conflated the two. But contentment is really what you're striving for, which is. I feel at peace with my day to day. I wake up every morning and I feel joy. And I have little moments throughout my day where everything is like, perfect is great, not too high and not too low. There are moments of happiness that I feel, but I do not strive to be happy as a state. I strive to be content. And I think that that also has managed my expectations of what it's like to live a really stable, grounded life full of love, full of family, full of challenges at work and personal challenges. That. That is a part of my life and that's something that I'm grateful for. To have such a full life where I can have those ups and downs, but never to be back in the place where I was when I first started the company. Where the lows felt just terrible. Pick me off the floor. I cannot move on lows. And where the highs were, oh, my gosh, we got a million dollars in the bank. Like, where we going? Let's pop bottles. Too high and too low. I prefer to be right in the middle and to have different moments. Hopefully that resonates with people. I think it's a bit counterintuitive, but when you feel that level of peace, you know you've made it because you're like, wow. Like, yeah, life is good. I mean, what do you think?

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (47:21)

Yeah, I definitely think we have completed the two. I think a lot of people are chasing happiness, and sometimes it's really hard to quantify that. But, you know, I think good visualization exercises, like, if you were happy tomorrow, what would that look like? Helps people get closer to contentment, which is. Is what you're talking about.

Morgan DeBaun (47:38)

Yeah. And usually it's. When I ask people that question, usually they need to fix one of their pillars. Like, for them to be happy, it's because they feel unstable. Or for them to be happy, they need a little bit more money to be able to make ends meets. Like, it's usually because something is off, it's usually not like a plus side. It's usually fixing something that's not working the way that they want it to work.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (48:00)

Yeah. So as much as you are encouraging people to rewrite their rules, you even share in the book your dad not being super happy, when you're like, I'm leaving this Silicon Valley job and I can imagine Other readers will also identify with, like, people in their lives not being super excited or like, really understanding this new vision they're writing for themselves. What would you say to people who are facing some pushback from people in their lives around this new vision they have for themselves?

Morgan DeBaun (48:28)

I think it's important to communicate it to the people around you because there's something in the magical that happens when you start to share with people your intentions of change and where you're trying to go. People magically start to help you, and people magically start to help you move these mountains that are in front of you. At the same time, when you do communicate these things in these big juicy visions of your life and where you want to go, you're going to get people who say, why are you taking on this risk? Everything is fine. You've worked so hard to get to where you are. Why do you want to change? And unfortunately, that was my own father. There were times when I didn't even come home from LA or San Francisco because I could not stand sitting at the dinner table and my dad calling blavity a hobby. It would drive me nuts. I would cry. It would drive me nuts. It was so painful because I'm sacrificing everything for this vision and you're calling it a hobby. And it's not. It's my job. I'm not making any money, but it's my job. And I think that you have to learn to live for yourself. I think that it took me until my mid-20s to really realize and accept. I'm the one that wakes up every morning and has to live my life. I'm the one that has to sit with the consequences of my choices. I'm the one doing these things. It's not my mom and my dad anymore. That disassociation from that expectation that we have as a child and parent relationship, some people get it earlier, for better or worse in high school. Some people, when they went to college. For me, it took longer to live for myself and not have that expectation of them. Now I still have core values that are part of our family kind of upbringing, but my core values of our upbringing I'm actually still honoring, which is help other people do the right thing, support black folks and with the work that you do and be of service. Like, he wanted me to be a doctor. If you didn't read the book yet, that's tldr. Like every other black dad in America, he wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer. And I was like, yeah, no, I'm not going to do that. I don't think it was until I got into maybe I was in like a black enterprise magazine or Essence magazine. Mind you, I had already raised like a couple million, but I finally got in one of the magazines and I think he was then like, oh, okay, this looks like it's real. And now he's my greatest fan. Like my dad travels to Nigeria and brings Blavity stickers all the way to Kano. So people will change their minds. But it was important, I think for me to figure out for myself who I was regardless of my parents expectations.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (51:14)

So how are you hoping that readers will engage with rewrite your rules? What are you hoping they do on the other end of reading?

Morgan DeBaun (51:21)

I'm really excited for people to read this book. I designed it as a toolkit. I designed it for people to use this to help them make decisions about how they're going to move through the world so that they can move with more success and more ease and hopefully faster than what they would have done if they hadn't had this tool and this resource. My hope is also that people revisit this book when they're in seasons of change. So maybe you go through it in one time and it's because you're trying to figure out how to quit your job and be full time entrepreneur. And then throughout the book you realize, actually I want to keep my day job because I actually value stability. But I'm going to take my discretionary income from my day job and invest into my side hustle. And then your side hustle starts to get so big and you're like, okay, wait, maybe it's time for me to quit again. Let me read it back through the book. Let me look at my team again. Let me look at my data again. Let me evaluate what's holding me back. Right. Like my goal is that this is a book that people are able to revisit and revisit these steps, most importantly throughout their lives. Because it's what I do and it's allowed me, I think, to have a lot more ease with how I operate.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (52:26)

So where can we stay connected with you, Morgan? Where can we get our copy of the book? And what do you have coming up with Blavity that you want to share?

Morgan DeBaun (52:33)

Yeah, you can go to rewriteyourrules.com I also have a worksheet for people who submit their receipts. So if you want kind of basically the workbook to be able to show you how to do these steps, you can get that on my website. Rewriteyourrules.com and I also have a podcast where I talk through my journey. It's called the Journey by Morgan DeBon. And I just walk through the ups, the downs. I talk about dei, I talk about scaling businesses, I talk about getting married. I talk about everything kind of going on because I think it's important for people to share how they live out loud and operate out loud. You know, we all have a privilege of being able to operate in this space at this level. It's important that we share it and give it back to other people as well. So I look forward to hearing everybody's success stories and sending me the DMs of all their frameworks and how they're applying it in their everyday lives.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (53:22)

Perfect. And where can we find you on social?

Morgan DeBaun (53:25)

You can find me at morgandabon everywhere on the Internet.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (53:28)

Beautiful. Be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some time with us today, Morgan.

Morgan DeBaun (53:33)

Thanks for having me.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (53:34)

Of course. I'm so glad Morgan could join us for today's conversation. To learn more about her and rewrite your rules, be sure to visit the show notes@therapyforblackgirls.com session 405 and don't forget to text two of your girls right.

Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (53:51)

Now and tell them to check out the episode.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (53:54)

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Therapy for Black Girls Co-host (54:01)

Give thoughts around topics you'd like to.

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford (54:03)

Hear discussed on the podcast, drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women with flexible online formats. NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve Card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. This is an iHeart podcast.