Session 427: Immigration Justice

Summary

---

Therapy for Black Girls – Session 427: Immigration Justice

Host: Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Guest: Katherine Laberon, writer, organizer, and research manager
Date: September 3, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode addresses the intensifying crisis of deportations in the United States, focusing on the disproportionate impact on Black migrants and their families. Dr. Joy Harden Bradford welcomes Katherine Laberon, a writer and activist whose work lies at the intersection of immigration justice, Black liberation, and mental health. Together, they unpack the emotional toll of migration, the unique challenges facing Black immigrants, the resilience and healing found in art and community, and practical strategies for safety, advocacy, and mental health support.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Katherine’s Background and Role of Art in Activism

• Katherine shares her Nigerian-American heritage, upbringing in London, and early experiences witnessing discrimination against immigrants.
• Poetry became a primary healing tool and a method for making sense of injustice.
  • “Poetry was this alchemizing force for me to be able to heal and make sense of my suffering. And I wanted to accompany other young black girls in doing the same…” — Katherine [06:02]
• Her current work focuses on archiving Black migrant stories and building intergenerational resilience through art, activism, and research.

2. Intersectionality and the Emotional Toll of Migration

• No “typical day” in her advocacy work due to the constantly shifting sociopolitical climate for migrants.
• Migrants, even as children, are impacted by fear, lack of cultural expression, discrimination, and hypervigilance.
  • “Your body is always in this state of fight or flight…even when you are just scrolling on your phone or looking at the news…” — Katherine [10:28]

3. Community Support and Barriers

• Support often comes from community organizations, but not all Black migrants have established networks in the U.S.
• Commonly cited barriers: cost of therapy, language barriers, fear of ICE even in traditionally safe spaces like churches or mosques.
• Mutual aid funds, legal “know your rights” trainings, and advocacy organizations offer tangible support.
  • Notable organizations: Black Alliance for Just Immigration, Haitian Bridge Alliance, African Communities Together, UndocuBlack.

4. Erasure of Black Migrants in National Immigration Discourse

• The misconception that immigration issues only affect Latinx communities erases Black migrant narratives.
• This leads to lack of resources, support, and language accessibility for Black migrants.
  • “It’s centered on anti-Blackness…when we think about the languages that resources are translated to, it’s rarely translated into African and Caribbean languages…” — Katherine [17:40]

5. Data and Case Studies – Disproportionality in Enforcement

• Black migrants make up 5% of the undocumented population but 20% of those facing deportation due to criminal convictions.
• Black migrants are:
  • Six times more likely to be in solitary confinement.
  • Twice as likely to be abused in detention.
• Termination of Temporary Protected Status for Haitians could leave 500,000 people at risk of deportation.
• Noteworthy case: Wani Dujast, detained after a traffic stop, with little information given to his partner.
  • “His partner currently does not know where he is…there are concerns around food and air quality in the environment he’s in.” — Katherine [19:19]

6. Intersectional Vulnerabilities: Queer, Trans, and Women Migrants

• Black LGBTQIA+ migrants regularly flee persecution only to face compounded traumas in the U.S.
• Black migrant women experience higher rates of sexual and gender-based violence, poverty, lack of access to care, and domestic violence with few resources.
  • “They’re more likely to experience health issues and biases in medical institutions due to language barriers…” — Katherine [22:49]

7. Practical Protections and Community Strategies

• “Know Your Rights” trainings and carrying physical cards outlining one’s rights (in multiple languages) are recommended.
• Build community safety plans—trusted networks to avoid reliance on police due to fear of ICE collaboration.
• Leverage mutual aid for essentials, like grocery delivery.
  • “Some organizations are supporting people even just getting groceries delivered, because they’re fearful of going to supermarkets themselves.” — Katherine [24:28]

8. Legal Landscape and Ongoing Concerns

• Katherine anticipates greater criminalization, more police/ICE collaboration, and increased data privacy violations (e.g., sharing information with ICE).

9. Impact on Black Girls and Families

• Childhoods are disrupted by ongoing fear; normal developmental experiences are replaced by vigilance and anxiety.
  • “There are parts of your childhood that become sacrificed...you’re forced into knowing more and trying to be in defense of the people that you care about.” — Katherine [27:17]

10. Safety and Advocacy for Allies and Providers

• Allies can amplify stories, join Court Watch programs, volunteer for detention hotlines, write to legislators, and organize community safety notifications.
• Practitioners can offer low-cost/free therapy and consider integrating holistic techniques (Reiki, astrology, spiritual traditions) as community mental healthcare.

11. Practical Technology Recommendations for Safer Communication

• Use encrypted platforms like Signal, with disappearing messages and minimal personal info.
• Turn off device tracking/location sharing during sensitive activities or convenings.
  • “If they could hold off and share [their location] after, that will help protect the safety of people.” — Katherine [37:44]

12. A Message of Hope and Resistance

• Katherine ends with a message of belonging and encouragement, emphasizing continued community resistance and worth.
  • “They belong. They belong. They belong. That they are inherently worthy, valuable, that we will continue to fight for them, will continue to organize for them, that they deserve community, they deserve care.” — Katherine [38:54]

---

Memorable Quotes

• On systemic erasure:
  “It’s centered on anti-Blackness…leads to our invisibilization when it comes to resources and supports…” — Katherine [17:32]
• On the emotional toll:
  “Your body is always in this state of fight or flight…even…scrolling on your phone or looking at the news…” — Katherine [10:28]
• On supporting youth:
  “There are parts of your childhood that become sacrificed.” — Katherine [27:17]
• On hope:
  “They belong. They belong. They belong…We will continue to fight for them.” — Katherine [38:54]
• On holistic support:
  “People are just yearning for different forms of knowing and healing in this time. And I think it’s all important.” — Katherine [35:10]

---

Important Timestamps

• Katherine shares her origin story and the role of art: [05:27]
• Intersectionality in activism and day-to-day work: [06:49]
• Childhood discrimination and emotional toll: [09:16]
• Current realities: hypervigilance, chronic stress, and deportation fears: [10:28]
• Barriers to community and support for Black migrants: [12:23]
• Erasure of Black migrants from national immigration conversation: [17:32]
• ICE data and disproportional targeting: [19:06]
• Intersectional vulnerabilities (queer, trans, women): [21:11]
• Practical safety tactics/Know Your Rights: [24:00]
• Technology for safer organizing/communication: [37:44]
• Katherine’s message of hope and affirmation: [38:54]

---

How to Connect and Take Action

• Contact Katherine Laberon:
  • katherinelaberon.com
  • Social media: @caths_laberon
• Resource Organizations: Black Alliance for Just Immigration, Haitian Bridge Alliance, African Communities Together, UndocuBlack
• If you’re a service provider: Offer low-cost or holistic mental health services; partner with trusted organizations for safe referrals.
• For allies: Join Court Watch, volunteer for hotlines, write letters or petitions, and help disseminate news of ICE raids.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode offers a deeply personal and systemic look at how racist immigration enforcement harms Black migrants and their families. Katherine and Dr. Joy offer practical strategies and resources for safety, mental health, and advocacy, all grounded in collective resistance and care.
The takeaway is an urgent call to notice, support, and fight for Black migrant communities—amplify their stories, build resilient networks, and hold systems accountable.

---

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more or to find a therapist in your area, visit our [e-mail] while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining ME for session 427 of the therapy for Black Girls Podcast. Get right into our conversation after word from our sponsors. This is an iHeart podcast.

[B]

The best kind of help is the kind you don't even have to ask for. Like your friend pulling up on moving day with a truck, a speaker and snacks ready to go. Well, that's the energy you get with AT&T's new guarantee. If there's ever a network interruption, they make it right by giving you credit for a full day of service proactively credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Learn [e-mail] guarantee for full details at and T Connecting Changes Everything.

[A]

Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music, festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

[C]

Parents of twins if you're familiar with far off drop offs.

[D]

Dad, stop. Stop.

[E]

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

[C]

For most, HPV clears on its own, but for those you don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.

[E]

Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next.

[F]

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination, brought to you by Merck.

[A]

This week we're discussing a crisis that's disrupting lives across the country. The escalating wave of deportations, tearing families apart and dismantling the fragile sense of safety many immigrants cling to. Today I'm joined by Katherine laberon, a writer, organizer and research manager whose work lives at the intersections of immigration justice, black liberation and mental health. Katherine has spent her career advocating for black immigrants whose stories are too often erased from national conversations. She first began making sense of injustice through poetry, transforming personal experience into a practice of healing and resistance. Today her work centers around archiving black migrant wisdom and building safe spaces for those navigating displacement, identity and systemic injustice. Catherine and I discussed the emotional toll of migration, the resilience of African and Caribbean diasporic communities, and explored the ways art, community, care and protecting joy become lifelines in the face of racism and and erasure. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG incession or join us over in our Patreon channel to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com here's our conversation.

[F]

Katherine, thank you so much for joining us today.

[D]

Thanks for having me.

[A]

Yeah, I'm excited to chat with you and would love to start by hearing.

[F]

More about your background. So you have worked at the intersection of immigration, justice and mental health and liberation for quite some time now. So what got you into this field and can you tell us more about your work?

[D]

Sure. So I'm Nigerian. I was born in New York, raised in London, and as a young black girl growing up in Northwest London, I was very aware of the mistreatment of immigrants in the country. I just have this visceral feeling around the disparities and injustices that we're experiencing even before I had the language to describe it. So in my childhood, poetry became the avenue for me to make sense of some of the things that I was feeling and witnessing in London. And the more I started telling my own personal story, the more I felt that poetry was this alchemizing force for me to be able to heal and make sense of my suffering. And I wanted to accompany other young black girls in doing the same, to access that liberation and healing that art makes possible. So my core within the work that I do in service of black migrants is thinking about storytelling, thinking about archiving our wisdom, our strategies, all of the things that have been passed on to us throughout generations so that we can continue to fight for justice for all people. So I always ground in my background in terms of ancestry and writing, and that has led me to work across advocacy, research, and policy spaces.

[A]

Yeah, and a lot of your work has been policy.

[F]

So what does, like, a day to day look like for you?

[D]

Currently? It looks like so many different things because I work at the intersection of so many different movements from racial justice, gender justice, migrant justice. Everything is very intersectional. So I don't think there's any typical day to day because the sociopolitical climate that we are in is continuously shifting a continuous and new stresses that people are experiencing. But I would say, again, the core is thinking about how do we research what's happening? How do we ensure that people on the ground are informed and know the actions that they can take? How can we ensure that we're doing this work in a way that truly centers people and their needs? And how are we also archiving the impacts of what that we are doing so that we do not duplicate efforts in the future? And I now have the honor of doing that with several different organizations as a consultant. So really just tailoring my work to support the organization and the collective's needs.

[A]

Can you say more about what led.

[F]

You to developing your consulting firm? Were you identifying gaps that organizations needed help with? What led you there?

[D]

Sure, yeah. Again, I think what led me there is this insistence that there is a deep interdependence between arts and activism. And in order to do this work, whether it's naming disparities that we are seeing or shining light on injustices, for me, art is the mechanism that makes all things possible, that allows people to be truly engaged in the work, that makes people remember details. So my consulting work is to be able to shed light on those kinds of intersections so that even as we are bringing people together, they are using their hands to create art, and they're taking it away. They are journaling with Their grandmothers about what their grandmother experienced in civil war. You know, they are thinking about the music that they can create, the sounds that they remember from childhood. So, yeah, I think that is kind of what pushed me into it is just, yes, wanting to do work around justice, but then also being an artist myself and not seeing them separate things, thinking that they can both live together. And that when you bring artists and activists in the same room, magic happens.

[F]

And you mentioned that so much of your passion has been fueled by your own childhood experiences. Right. And noticing some of the discrepancies and the disparities. Can you say more about like, what you saw as a child and maybe how that looks different, if at all, to what we are seeing now?

[D]

Yeah. So as I mentioned, the grew up in London, I think about the high school that I was in very often where we were not allowed to braid our hair. Black girls are not allowed to wear braids. If you have braids in your hair, you'll be sent home. Black boys were not allowed to cut their hair too short. If they did, they'll be sent home. And that was what my brothers experienced. And if they had their hair too long, they would also be set home. So there was just no way that you could explain, express yourself or your culture and your identity without that being punished. And then just seeing the way that like migrants in London were treated lower wages that they experienced living under continuous fear of deportation. Yeah, it wasn't the kind of childhood that was centered on play and fun at times, even though we found our own avenues and pathways to make that possible. But structurally within society, it was like we were being punished for existing death.

[F]

So you're already talking about, I think, some of the like, emotional weight that the immigrant process looks like, even for children. Right. So I definitely want to shift more to talking about like, where we find ourselves now and what the experience is typically like in the emotional toll that can have, especially when there are restrictive administrations like the one we have now.

[D]

Yeah. So, yes, it's a way to constantly be made to question your place, country, and whether you belong. We're always living with this fear of being detained or deported. And even if you fall safe within yourself, you are concerned about the people that you care about, your loved ones. It makes you hyper vigilant and concerned around whom to trust, who may be collaborating with ice, who may give you information over. So your body is always in this state of fight or flight. And we know that that must have very harmful consequences, preferences when that becomes chronic, even when you are just Falling on your phone or looking at the news, you're seeing things like, ICE has been given huge quotas of like, 3,000 arrests to make a day, and they're being given signing bonuses for joining if they want to sign up as ICE officers. It just is this consistent reminder that your life is being seen as disposable. And even if you want to advocate and speak up against the injustices that people are experiencing who are scared that your advocacy could therefore lead to you also being deported as well. So it's a process of also feeling like you are silent. And there are people who are in the process of mentally preparing to be deported to countries where they have no memories, no family, no network, seeing as they have made home care. So they are effectively being told to start over without any support in doing so. So they're just a countless list of the different ways that impacts people, including children, of course, who are even scared to go to school or for parents to go to work because they are living in the reality that that may be the last time that they see their parents.

[A]

And can you speak to Katherine?

[F]

Like, what does support look like? I would imagine there may be community gatherings or, you know, talking with people who understand this whole process. What does support look like when you are under. Like this constant fear?

[D]

Yeah, I think it involves being able to lean on people that we're connected with. But, you know, I pause in saying that because for some black migrants, there isn't that community network. They are coming here by themselves. So that support sometimes can be fleeting. But people have mentioned, of course, wanting support from therapists, being able to manage their mental health health. But even with that, a lot of people experience cost barriers. So the real question you ask is around having affordable access to therapy, especially for black migrants. I know people find a lot of solace in their places of worship. So sometimes people may go to church or mosque, but even now, there is more fear around even going to places of worship due to fears of ICE raids. As well, there are organizations that are brilliant about offering community care in these ways and offering your rights trainings, legal supports, and so on. Some of those organizations are the Black alliance for Just Immigration, Haitian Women or Haitian Refugees, Haitian Bridge Alliance, African Communities Together, Freedom for Immigrants, undocublac, plmp. And I'm naming these organizations just in case anyone would like to look up their work and connect with them. So despite all of the structural limitations of people receiving support, there are ways in which communities are organizing mutual aid funds to try and support people in these times as well.

[A]

Thank you for that, Katherine. More from our conversation after the break.

[B]

There's something special about folks who come through without being asked. Like your coworker surprising you with your favorite coffee just because, or your friend handing you the aux cord the moment you get in the car. No debate, no fight, just positive vibes. That kind of love. It just hits different. And that's exactly the energy AT&T is on with their new guarantee. If there's a network interruption, AT&T will proactively credit you for a full day of service. No calls, no emails, no jumping through hoops. It's just handled. It's like the universe saying I got you. Except this time it's not the stars aligning, it's your network. And let's be real, that connection is everything. Whether you're holding down the group chat, checking in with your parents, scrolling TikTok, your network's got to come through. And if there's a problem, AT AND T is on the case. No stress, no drama, just real backup when it counts. Credit for fiber downtime lasting 20 minutes or more or wireless downtime lasting 60 minutes or more caused by a single incident impacting 10 or more towers. Restrictions and exclusions apply. Learn [e-mail] guarantee for full details at @&t connecting Changes Everything.

[A]

Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve, you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase Sapphire [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

[C]

Parents of Tweens, if you're familiar with far off drop offs.

[D]

Dad, stop.

[A]

Stop.

[E]

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

[C]

For most, HPV clears on its own, but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.

[E]

Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next.

[F]

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination brought to you by Merck. You know there is often the misconception that immigration only impacts like Latin communities, right? Which leaves this whole population of black migrants out. Can you talk about the harm that that kind of misconception does, especially for the black migrant experience?

[D]

Yes, it basically, well it is centered on anti blackness. It's centered on trying to erase black migrants from the conversation around immigration, at least to our invisibilization when it comes to resources and the supports that we can have access to. And we see this happen in a variety of ways. For example with language justice. For example, when we think about the languages that resources are translated to, it's rarely translated into African and Caribbean languages, which means that our people are missing vital pieces of information. And we know that black migrants are disproportionately impacted by some of these policies, especially when we think about immigration and the ways in which black migrants are over policed and have higher risk of deportation due to these contact even if they are never charged with a crime. So even nonviolent crimes can lead to deportation. And this of course means that they are higher risk of inventionally profiled, more likely to experience police brutality, prison, solitary confinement in detention, deportation and so on. And then when we look at Trump's travel ban, for example, we see that many other countries impacted by that are African and Fabian Fantuns like Haiti in both than Somalia. So again a case of anti blackness and a way in which we see racial injustice Islamophobia is affecting.

[A]

Are there any recent statistics or case.

[F]

Studies that you have that can really highlight how ICE is disproportionately targeting the black community?

[D]

So black migrants make up 5% of the undocumented population, but they make up 20% of the migrants who are facing removal due to criminal convictions. Black migrants are six times more likely to be in solitary confinement in detention. They are also more than two times more likely to be abused when in detention. And when we look at determination of temporary protected status, for example, in the case of Haitian immigrants, that would leave over 500,000 people vulnerable to deportation, as well as migrants from countries like Sudan and Cameroon. And one of the cases that I have currently been keeping my eye on is that of Wani Dujast, who was taken into detention following a DUI stop, and his partner currently does not know where he is. So the information that she has received is that he's experiencing severe nosebleeds and there are concerns around the food and air quality in the environment that he's in. But she's been trying to locate him. And I'm also thinking of Jorge, who's a 39 year old black disabled migrant who went to traffic courts and on the courthouse steps. He was kidnapped by ice, and he's currently experiencing mental and physical health issues as well now. So there are several fundraisers to try and secure legal representation, but there are just so many cases, they're endless. And we're seeing that the climate change is worse and worse day by day.

[F]

I really appreciate you shedding light on that, Catherine, because I was just thinking, like, some of the more high profile cases where ICE has kidnapped people, I don't feel like I've heard them be any black migrants. Right. Like, it feels like they are not typically members of the black community. So I'm really appreciative of you sharing that. It feels like that is another instance of the black community and anti blackness really proliferating conversations around immigration and coverage around what's happening. So how do intersecting identities like being black, undocumented, queer and trans shape the immigrant experience in ways that can compound trauma and risk?

[D]

Yes. So there are many black migrants who have left home countries that had homophobic and transphobic environments, policies and practices, places where they could be killed or incarcerated for being fair or trans. To come to the US where the attacks on LGBTQIA people are increasing. So it means being exposed to compounding forms of trauma and being disproportionately vulnerable to violence. They are experiencing attacks on all fronts at this time due to those intersections that you named race, gender, sexuality, immigration status, and so on. The prejudices that queer and trans people are experiencing, including in immigrant communities that make it harder for them to have community, it deepens the feeling of isolation. Even when we think about seeking health care, for example, they have increasing fears around medical violence, of being black and definitive or untrans. So When I think about these intersections of identities, I feel like there just needs to be way more advocacy and way more visibility around the needs that black, undocumented, queer and trans people are experiencing. And there are organizations, including those that I mentioned, but specifically blm, who is doing great work to try and combat some of these injustices that these communities are experiencing.

[F]

So I wonder, are you able to highlight any particular experiences for black women migrants? Because, you know, we know that that experience is different. Right. And I would imagine it's no different for the migrant experience. Are there any particular nuances that you can highlight there?

[D]

Yeah. So black migrant women are more likely to experience sexual and gender based violence at different points of their migration journey. So it could happen when they are in the home countries on their way to the US While they're in the US So we've had several counts of people just experiencing compounding forms of violence and then of course, coming here not having access to health care or ways to heal from the trauma that they've experienced. Experience. They are more likely to make less money and live below the poverty line, which means that it's even more difficult for them to be caregivers, to look after their children and elders in their families and communities and so on. They are more likely to experience health issues and biases in medical institutions that are difficult to navigate due to language barriers. And they're also more likely to experience domestic violence and may not know who to turn to due to fear of speaking out and that impacting their ability to remain in the country. So definitely we see a lot of the trends that black women in general experience, unfortunately, and how that kind of translates over to the black migrant women experience.

[A]

And you mentioned earlier, Catherine, that some.

[F]

Of what a lot of the other organizations are offering are things like know your rights kind of campaigns. And it kind of feels like, is there anything that people can do to protect themselves right now, given that ICE agents are just showing up haphazardly and taking people in without any real rhyme or reason. But when you talk about like knowing your rights, like, are there things that you can point to and offer for people who may be worried about detention and things they need to maybe have on their person?

[D]

Yeah. So the know your rights trainings, I know that there's several organizations that also have like physical parts just to keep people keep at the top of people's minds their right to remain silent, their right to seek legal representation, and they have it translated into several languages. So I think that that is a useful thing to keep in mind. I think there are mental health resources that are being offered by several organizations with therapists you can offer in free therapy sessions for people to help them decompress and do that work around regulating their nervous systems, which is important. I always advocate for people, when possible, to try and think about community safety plans with people that they trust again, if that's possible, if it happens, trusted people so that they can think about alternatives to calling the police, seeing as that we know that police and ICE go hand in hand as well. So it's difficult definitely to think about the solution because everyone's situation is different. But I think just starting with connecting with some of these organizations on the ground, especially that have mutual aid funds, some of these organizations are supporting people and even just getting groceries delivered because they're fearful of going to supermarkets themselves. So thinking about those tangible necessities and meeting back and also go a really long way in allowing people to feel cared for and seen.

[A]

Mm.

[F]

You already mentioned some concerns around the travel bans and how those impact, like Caribbean countries and other black countries. Are there other laws or things that you expect to be put in place or that are on the pipeline are being discussed right now that we expect to disproportionately impact black migrants.

[D]

Yeah. So for me, I'm not aware of things that are currently in the pipeline, but I would say that one unfortunately certain about is just the increase in criminalization of black migrant communities. I think that we are just going to see the increased presence of police and the increased collaboration between police and ICE and other institutions to make people even more fearful around experiencing and receiving services that are life saving, including just seeking medical care. And also, I just think we're going to see a lot more around just the infringement of people's data security and rights with people's information being handed over to ICE to make more arrests and to try and increase this detention to deportation pipeline.

[F]

Yeah, you've already talked a little bit about this also, Catherine, but are there any things in particular that you want to highlight about black girls in the migrant experience? Especially people are separated from families, like anything that you want to kind of.

[A]

Call attention to about how that's impacting black girls?

[D]

I think for black girls, again, as I mentioned, when you are in an environment where you are thinking and concerned about your safety, your belonging, the safety and belonging of people and your family and your communities, there are parts of your childhood that become sacrificed. There is a way in which you are like forced into knowing more and that you are trying to be in defense of the people that you care about. It makes you just scared to do things that children should do, make friends, play, tell people things about yourself. So I have a very like soft spot for young black girls because I just wish that there was a different reality that was possible for them. And I know that in this time, in this moment, especially with the increase that we are seeing around these anti immigrant policies that people are grieving like it's summer and it's sunny and ideally kids should be off school just enjoying themselves. But people are living in hiding right now.

[A]

Yeah More from our conversation after the break. Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve, you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.

[C]

Parents of Tweens if you're familiar with far off drop offs dad, stop.

[A]

Stop.

[E]

Stop right here or get DMs about what's for dinner. You may be experiencing tween milestones for your son or daughter. These can start at age 9. HPV vaccination, a type of cancer prevention against certain HPV related cancers, can start then too.

[C]

For most HPV clears on its own, but for those who don't clear the virus, it can cause certain cancers later in life.

[E]

Embrace this phase, help protect them in the next.

[F]

Ask their doctor today about HPV vaccination brought to you by Merck.

[A]

And I would imagine there's probably increasing.

[F]

Fear about what happens when the school year starts again. Right. Like, I feel like we saw some conversations around ICE showing up at school as school was ending this year. And so, you know, with a new school year on the horizon, I would imagine there was increasing fear there.

[D]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. This, this is no break. Whether you're home from school, whether you're at school, whether you're at home, whether you're outside, it's just this consistent leap of just being scared regardless of where you are.

[F]

You've already offered a lot of suggestions, but is there anything else that you'd like to offer to families or people who might be, you know, worried about ICE or how to protect themselves, themselves? Anything else tangible that they should be aware of about how to protect themselves and their families?

[D]

Yes. So I would encourage people that care about communities that are being impacted by these anti immigrant policies to amplify the stories that they're seeing, especially of black migrants. Seeing as we know that we're experiencing so much erasure from media and all these platforms. People can also consume. Consider participating in Court Watch, which involves volunteering to accompany people to court so that they know they're not, they're not alone and that the judges and attorneys can also know that there's a community trying to hold them accountable. People can also volunteer for detention hotlines to be able to communicate with people, send letters to people in detention, sign petitions. People can also post when they see ICE in places. I've seen a lot of people in New York do that when they see that there's an ICE presence somewhere, just notifying people so that they can organize themselves accordingly. And then also for service providers, if it's possible, I would really encourage people to consider offering low cost or free sessions to black migrants who are trying to navigate the trauma that they're experiencing at this time.

[A]

You know, Katherine, you bring up a good point.

[F]

And I feel like I've seen a lot of stories around like ICE not identifying themselves. Right. They're not necessarily dressed in like police uniform. And so how do you even know if you are having an encounter with an ICE agent or like that there is a, a collection of them somewhere? Is there any way to tell?

[D]

Yeah, I think that's one of the scariest parts, that people are just literally being kidnapped by people who they cannot even identify and their communities are not even aware of what's happening until it's too late often or until they're already being detained. So what you're naming is actually part of the scariest parts about it is that it's almost like a mob that is just going in, taking people off the streets.

[A]

Yeah.

[F]

And because there isn't necessarily any identification, it doesn't feel like there's a real way to follow somebody. Like, if they have been detained. Right. Like, how do you even identify where somebody is in the system or maybe.

[A]

Where they've been deported if you weren't.

[F]

Able to get any real information, like, from the person who detained them?

[D]

Yeah, I think it's very difficult. I know that there are organizations that believe they're trying to form, like, detention trackers and things like that. But as I mentioned with the case of, like, Ronny to just, like, his partner really doesn't know where he is at this time. So there's a lot of opaqueness to the system, which makes it even more scary and makes it even more possible for people to be taken and deployed. What's it.

[F]

So you mentioned a couple of ways that people can be good allies. Right. On court watch, you mentioned writing letters. Are there specific legislators that we need to be writing to or talking with? What kind of other advocacy things people want to get involved in that could help with some of this?

[D]

Yes, I think that that would be great. And there are definitely organizations like the ones I listed who have those lists of people that they're currently trying to target, doing a lot of work on the Hill to try and ensure that there are some advocacy happening there. So I would say a good starting place is to connect with the organizations on the ground who are doing the work and see the different people that they are trying to contact at this time to try and build power in that way.

[F]

You've offered several different organizations that you said are offering access to therapy or are there other mental health services that you would like to see being provided to black migrants to this community at this time?

[D]

Yeah. I know that so many black migrants have different spiritual practices. For example, myself, I'm Nigerian, I'm Yoruba. And our people, some of our people practice IFA and different forms of spiritual practices. So thinking about more holistic ways of thinking about mental and spiritual health feels important. So for anyone who is a service provider in areas that maybe do not fall under traditional forms of therapy, but even things like Reiki, people that even do things in the realm of astrology, people are just yearning for different forms of knowing and healing in this time. And I think it's all important. So I know that a lot of times people are like, I don't do this. This won't be useful. But our people now are open to all things because we're all different and have different areas that we would like to experience care and support. So I think really just thinking out of the box around what you can offer and seeing how you can also ensure that people that are directly impacted by these issues know that you have these offerings available. And I actually have a mental health database on my website where I include like a list of some of these offerings from people that I know are offering free to low cost therapy options.

[F]

Beautiful, I appreciate that. My next question was going to be, would you suggest like connecting maybe with one of the organizations that you have listed? Because I would imagine with so much fear, like you don't want to just say like, oh, I'm offering this group for people and people don't know how to trust that like you're actually creating a safe space. Or would the best way be to actually connect with somebody else who's already like a trusted partner in this work so that you can share your offerings?

[D]

Yeah, no, I think that's a really great idea. I think the more comfortable that people feel with a service provider, the easier it is for them to feel like they can reach out. But then I also think that there's beauty in being able to share on your platforms as well. If you have like a presence, whether it's on social media or otherwise, that, hi, I'm this person, here's my background is what I'm trying to offer, here's why I'm trying to offer it. Here are the steps I will take to try and ensure your safety as we engage with each other. I think the more thought that can be shared externally will show the true intentions of a person and will make people more comfortable in reaching out to them.

[F]

Can you give any insight onto what kinds of platforms people may want to use? Like, I understand that things like Signal or other platforms may be a better way to communicate with people than maybe just like your regular text messages.

[A]

Can you offer any insight into what.

[F]

Kinds of platforms to use to maybe ensure further safety?

[D]

Yeah, so Signal definitely. And I think on Signal there's several settings around just allowing things to disappear. Also, people maybe not using their actual names even on Signal. Turning off notifications when you are traveling and you're landing in the airport, turning your phone off, turning off face ID when you are at convenings, for example, in conferences, if you can ask people to not share their location while they're there. Now, on people's stories, sometimes they want to share where they're at and what they're doing. But if they could hold off and do that after, that will help protect the safety of people. For researchers trying to use encrypted databases that offer you the ability to put passwords and have a separate key and to take away identifiable information or even just not asking demographic information if it's not needed. So depending on the field, I think there are different ways that people can go about trying to enforce and ensure that people are as safe as possible.

[F]

Katherine, is there any message of hope or resistance that you would like to.

[A]

Share for people who may be feeling overwhelmed by this process? Anything that you can offer?

[D]

Yes, I would remind them that they belong. They belong. They belong. That they are inherently worthy, valuable, that will continue to fight for them, will continue to organize for them, that they deserve community, they deserve care. Yeah, I think that's it. Just a reminder of the inherent wealthiness and the inherent ability that they should have to be here and that there are several people on the ground. These are full, talented people on the ground who are fighting for them day in and day out.

[A]

Thank you for that. So where can we stay connected with you, Katherine? What is your website as well as.

[F]

Any social media channels you'd like to share?

[D]

Yes. So my name is katherine laberon.mo My website is katherine labron.com. my whole name is C a t H D R I N E L B I R a n and the website is katherine labyron.com social media@cath laberon. So C A T h S L a B I R A N. Yeah, if you reach out to me on any of those platforms, I would love to connect and talk to you more about any of the things that we've spoken about today.

[F]

Thank you so much for joining us, Katherine.

[A]

I appreciate it.

[D]

Thank you.

[F]

I was so inspired by my conversation with Katherine and I hope that you took away a lot from this episode as well.

[A]

To learn more about Katherine or to check out the resources she shared, be sure to visit our show notes at therapy for blackgirls.com session427. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast?

[F]

If you have movies or books you'd.

[A]

Like us to review or have thoughts about topics you'd like us to discuss, drop us a message at Memo FM therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind, we just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist [e-mail] directory. Don't forget to follow us over on Instagram and come on over and join.

[F]

Us in our Patreon community.

[A]

You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover [e-mail] Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. This is an iHeart podcast.