← Therapy for Black Girls
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- [00:11]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For for more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website@therapyforblackgirls.com while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining me for session 430 of the therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after a word from our sponsors. This is an iHeart podcast. These days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations, but not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode Island. All that, plan your trip today at visitroadisland.com that's visitroadisland.com Living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges but also incredible strength. Especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis, or mg, and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as cidp, finding empowerment in the community is critical. Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics explores people discovering strength in the most unexpected places. Listen to Untold Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we wanted to be Degree holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. the VIP Fall Fashion Preview Sale at Macy's is the perfect time for you to see what new pieces you need to add this year to make your fall wardrobe come to life in a whole new way. Maybe it's some new boots to wear with your sweaters or a new work bag in the perfect color suede to carry around all your essentials, now is the time to look for it. During the sale, you can take an extra 30% off some of their best brands like BCBG and Steve Madden and 15% off beauty. Get more pieces you love for prices you won't believe. Shop The Macy's Fall VIP Fashion Preview in store online at Macy's.com from September 25th through October 5th. This episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by J.P. morgan, Chase Bank, N.A. member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. It's no longer a 90s kind of world, but I am so glad we got these girls. This week on Therapy for Black Girls, we're joined by cultural icons Erica Alexander and Kim Coles, two of the stars of the beloved 90s sitcom Living Single. Now co host of the Reliving Single podcast, Erica and Kim are taking a walk down memory lane, revisiting the episodes that made us laugh, cry and feel seen. In this conversation, they share what it's been like to reconnect with their characters and each other, unpacking the highs and lows of fame, the challenges they faced as Black women in the entertainment industry, and the mental health journeys that shaped them both on and off screen. From navigating rejection and typecasting to learning how to prioritize their healing, Erica and Kim offer a vulnerable, powerful reflection on sisterhood, creativity and the importance of telling our own stories. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with us on social media using the hashtag TVG Incession. Or join us over on our Patreon Channel to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us, Erica and Kim.
- [05:38]
Kim Coles
Thank you Dr. Joy.
- [05:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you for having me.
- [05:40]
Erica Alexander
Thank you Dr. Joy.
- [05:41]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I'm very excited. I've been anticipating chatting with you all. So when you were joining Living single. Did you have any idea of the legacy that it would leave behind?
- [05:53]
Kim Coles
Erica's looking at me because she knows that I always say that I knew the moment the six of us got into a room together, we had our first table read. I felt the magic immediately, and I couldn't have known how long it would go and what it would mean, but it felt like magic, and I felt like it was going to absolutely work.
- [06:10]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, he was the one who knew. I was 23 coming into this, and we all were young coming into this. So legacy. No, I was thinking about pregnancy. Like, don't get pregnant. That then you don't even have an idea of what legacy is. You get hired to do things, and you're hoping that it does well and that you can do your job. But at the time, Kim, they were building the show around Kim and Queen Latifah, so they had already created a significant footprint in the industry, enough to get a deal and be popular enough to have a studio create a show for them. Meanwhile, back at the ranch, I'm doing the work, you know, still. Still out there. So that was different. And you come in with different mindsets.
- [06:51]
Kim Coles
I had come off of In Living Color, like, about a year and a half or so pretty prior, and the energy for me on that show was completely different from the energy that I was feeling in this room. So maybe I was hoping that it would be a great experience because it felt from the beginning that it would be a great experience. And that other show for me was not that. I think I put my expectations on this being great because there was a such a collaborative experience from the very beginning.
- [07:19]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
In addition to it being collaborative, what else about the energy felt very different about this project?
- [07:26]
Kim Coles
I would say that we were all coming from different worlds and different disciplines. You have Kim Fields, who was already a legend and a legacy. You know, we all grew up wanting to be that little girl, I always say, with a little fluffy bang, this little black girl who's excellent. We had John Hinton come from the world of standup, which was my world, too. You had T.C. carson, who I didn't know at the time, had been singing and dancing for years and years. We'd seen him in that movie, Living Large. And of course, Queen Latifah is Queen Latifah. And Erica Alexander. I knew his cousin Pam. And it just felt like we were coming from different worlds, all coming in this intersection of black joy.
- [08:07]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I love that. So we've seen other shows like Golden Girls and 227 kind of play with this idea of the trope of four best friends, but it feels like Living Single really popularized that trope, at least for me. What would you say about some of the shows that have followed and kind of followed in those footsteps of the four best friends trope?
- [08:27]
Erica Alexander
Well, it kind of seems to be a formula and a recipe that works. Obviously, there are archetypes built into that. You can have the friend who's more lusty, you can have the one who's anchored. If you were looking at our show, we have these archetypes. Certainly Golden Girl does Sex and the City. You have one that's also more about money and materialism. And then you also have the one who's more simplistic and innocent and maybe more vulnerable. And that works. So it's not created by anybody. It's just how some of these things, the fact that there are other shows and there are other shows that we're certainly glad that they were successful, did so well, is the testimony to the showrunners who understood that recipe was strong and then they just put different people in them.
- [09:12]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
And Erica, you recently had the chance to be on Run the World, which was, I think, another show that kind of followed in some of that recipe. What was that like for you?
- [09:20]
Erica Alexander
That was great. You know, part of that recipe was down to Yvette Lee Bowser being a part of the stew there too. So, yeah, it's gone on. And then there's Harlem too. Those young women are wonderful performers and actresses. I think anytime you can create a female centric world, it's good for everyone. Because for so many centuries and years, it was done with a male point of view, certainly a white male point of view. Most of Hollywood has built their whole library on that. Those shows often don't hold up as well. They're not sustainable, they're not organically sustainable. But where there are women, I just think the nurturing and the long term growth that you need. Yeah, that was great. And I still am friends with those young women. They're wonderful.
- [10:03]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I love that. So continuing our conversation about legacy, what does legacy mean to you now as you are Reliving Living Single through the Reliving Single podcast?
- [10:14]
Kim Coles
We've had 30 plus years of living inside of these characters and having people on the street and people in the bank and people on the plane, you know, everywhere, telling us how much they love the show and how it affected them or how they may have become an attorney because Maxine Shaw, Attorney at Law, made it possible. Or witnessing the innocent love between Overton And Sinclair was possible. And so we've heard it for years and years and years and years, right? And now to have this beautiful vessel that has been created for us to do this love letter to the fans and to relive the show piece by piece, you know, we're going step by step through every aspect of the show and reliving things that we didn't know about each other, that we didn't know about the show, and digging into the culture and the meaning of all of it and the meaningfulness of all of it. I think that it makes the legacy feel even richer. I knew it was going to be there from the beginning. We get to see it all the time. And now we've created a home where people, new people, can even come in and witness and witness the depth of the legacy. So who knows where it's. How far it will go? I think it's rich and it's real.
- [11:27]
Erica Alexander
Anyhow, I also believe, and I agree that. Excuse me. Do we both need to clear our throat? What are we doing? He's like, let's just do it. Get over with. Okay, okay.
- [11:40]
Kim Coles
Keep that in the show.
- [11:41]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Keep that in.
- [11:43]
Erica Alexander
You know, there's the show and then there's show within the show. Of course, in the show. It's whatever we'd like it to be. And what we'd like it to be, as well as a love letter, is a master class, you know, where we get to tell everybody what we've learned, but also, you know, talk about comedy. Kim Coles is a comedy genius, and where else can she just be herself? And just by watching, you can see how she lays things out, how she's able to balance interviews in the room, how she's able to move back and forth between us, the chemistry. That's something that young people need to see, but also we can explain things. We've had 40 years. How many years in business?
- [12:23]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
40 years.
- [12:24]
Erica Alexander
40 years. That's 80 years of experience. 80 years of experience. And how many times do we get to see people actually leave a blueprint or a template for other people? Usually people pass away. They die, to be clear, they don't get a chance to tell their story and have that conversation. And I think it's a wonderful thing to do, but it's also brave because we're having fun, but we're also often talking about things that are very difficult to talk about, but in a safe space. And when I say safe, because we know that we can talk afterwards when we disagree, we also know we're in growth We've been in growth for a long time and in conversation for a long time and will continue to be. So I'm really excited about that part of it.
- [13:06]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Can you share maybe what's been the most difficult thing to talk about on the show?
- [13:10]
Kim Coles
No, you go first, Erica.
- [13:16]
Erica Alexander
It's difficult to talk about things that we had very little control over, and we're still trying to process and manage and are frustrated with. So I'll just speak about myself. You can go through and have a career and be very blessed and highly favored, as people say, but still have your own disappointments and they can be connected to any show. But inside of this, we did five years. It's a long time to be in a place where you can have a connection with people for good, bad or ugly that. That you may not have been able to speak about while the show was happening, may not have the maturity, the time, and may not have made the effort because you didn't know how. That's not resolved just because we show up. So I think that personal things are hard, but also the things that the studio and. Or the network, any of those things that we didn't understand were working around us, the apparatus. That's hard to talk about because it affected people's lives. So I'd like to say that if we knew better, it didn't mean that we could do more. But now that we know, we are able to sort of understand why it's still so painful and frustrating.
- [14:24]
Kim Coles
Ditto, I would say. Learning that, I think. Well, Erica and I talked a lot back then. We haven't talked as much in the past few years as we did at that time. And to know that she was going through difficulties, that I was like, why didn't you tell me? I didn't know that her father had just passed away. She kept that away. And so it's been difficult, but very revealing about her work ethic, her integrity, her character. And it would have been nothing wrong with her actually explaining this is what I'm going through. These are the difficulties I'm going through behind the scenes. It would have been fine if she would have been held by all of us. So to learn that, it feels challenging because I would have loved to have been able to be there for her, and she didn't allow me to be.
- [15:13]
Erica Alexander
I'm so.
- [15:16]
Kim Coles
To hear anything that gets revealed on our podcast that has to do with something we didn't know or something that we couldn't have changed or something we didn't know how to change is challenging because in this, you know, this age and stage, I'm. I'm older than Erica, but in this age of stage, I would have known what to say, what to do, I think, and to know that the growth was available. And I wish I had done it then.
- [15:38]
Erica Alexander
Yeah. And we are in struggles now. Like, we are always sort of finding where the balance is between who we are now. And I'm glad to say that that right there is an ongoing process that you can only do with a friend and only do with a sister. And we have more time on the books than most. So it's an investment to make that investment and know that it's important to be a healthy human for you to come together so you can be tested by pressure, but also polished like a diamond because of it.
- [16:12]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I would imagine that that has felt incredibly healing.
- [16:15]
Erica Alexander
Right.
- [16:15]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Like, it's not often that we get chances to process things maybe that happened in the past. And I would imagine you didn't necessarily know that this podcast would bring some of those things out. I'm guessing you're kind of doing this in real time, figuring, like, oh, I didn't even know that this was a thing we needed to talk about.
- [16:31]
Kim Coles
I feel that way. I. Did you know that this was.
- [16:33]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, I knew.
- [16:34]
Kim Coles
See, this time, she.
- [16:36]
Erica Alexander
See, now I knew.
- [16:38]
Kim Coles
I think, Erica, you created this space. You know, this podcast started because of a relationship that she had with Kevin's company, being a documentarian and being a podcaster and doing this. So this is a world that she's already been in. And when it was asked, would you do a rewatch show? And she'll tell you her journey and her coming to that decision, so she was there first. So it's interesting, living single, I was there first. This is something where she was there first. So she had a chance to create this container. And to be honest, there are times that we have clashes, but we made a pact to always return to love, and that's what grounds it for me, no matter what. And so I'll let her tell you how she knew that this would be. I think there were things you needed to say, you needed to have come out that.
- [17:26]
Erica Alexander
That. Absolutely.
- [17:27]
Kim Coles
I feel. I feel like you created the container so that this could.
- [17:31]
Erica Alexander
That's exactly it. That's exactly it. Because I think that you can't satisfy everyone all the time, but after a while, you do have to start having some goals set for yourself. Our parents are educators.
- [17:43]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
My mom is right here.
- [17:45]
Erica Alexander
She is right there. And your mother is an educator, 95.
- [17:49]
Kim Coles
Years old, and taught For a thousand years.
- [17:52]
Erica Alexander
And my mom was there, power to her. And both, you know, our parents, education is important. And I kept thinking that everyone kept asking me as I went through life, even when I was a very young actress and I started when I was 14, back in the day, you really did need your picture and resume. You need this. That I would say a thousand times, I said, I got to do this in one space. So I can say, go look at this tape. I'll do it. So for a long time, I've been wanting to put in space and how to guide of how to be in this business. But from my point of view, which is different from, say, one of those books you might find in Barnes and Noble, from a person that may not even have your burdens or understand how you're. You might be affected by social and racial and systemic injustice and inequities. We are now living in a world where you have Internet, you have everybody having a say. Everybody thinks they're Oprah, whether they are not. They can be like Andy Warhol kind of says, famous for 15 minutes.
- [18:47]
Kim Coles
Everybody's going to get 15 minutes, right?
- [18:49]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Exactly on their 16th minute. But that's.
- [18:53]
Erica Alexander
But we've had more than our 15 minutes. So what do you do with that? You start to think about, I need to say something like, because this can't just sit here. And so when I think about what I learned in doing other podcasts that had different goals, that you can go long and deep in a long conversation. So we've got, just like you, Dr. Joy, an opportunity to go into nuance, but also for people who are watching, for them to see us go up and down and find our way and then come back to things, come back around, give more context or, you know, just lay that there. And then it comes back. I'm sorry, there's no place else you can do this for this amount of money, you know, and when, I mean, it's like a DIY thing, do it yourself. And yet in partnership with someone like Kevin Hart, who has the expanse and the resources, we can do it. And that's what people are saying they like, they say, we feel like y' all are trying to really make say that your time is valuable. We don't want to waste it and we don't. But finding that balance is tough because we also have to be free to create in the moment. So there you go.
- [20:02]
Kim Coles
And we get to be ourselves. And I'm grateful for that because there's so many people who want to reboot. They want to Reboot, please do a reboot. And for years and years and years, I was like, let's do a reboot. And this is better than a reboot. I am certain of it. Because we get to be ourselves and talk about the thing that you love. And I think it's better than the reboot.
- [20:23]
Erica Alexander
That's what I'm calling we are not our characters. And most people don't get to meet us. And even in this, we are a version of ourselves. You know, we are curated but also polished version of ourself because we are in entertainment. And you're polished by, you know, your job, you know how to do it. But most people are meeting something that they have no control over because they are a tool in someone else's toolbox. You're playing a character, those are not your words. And people start saying, are you Sinclair or is Kim Sinclair? And I say, well, that they're both. But I can assure you that Kim is Kim. And Sinclair would be a totally different person. If you just in your mind cast someone else, you could see how different. And people need to see that there are real human beings behind this, but they also need to see that black women do have agency and that we can speak for ourselves. And we are a very complex center of what culture is. But also that we deserve the dignity of making our mistakes out loud. But also showing you just how good we are and owning that because we are good at our jobs and you need to know how we got here.
- [21:30]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah, I appreciate you saying that, Erica and I would love to hear about any mental health impact or challenges you've had to like your personal identity after playing such an iconic character. Can you talk about any of that?
- [21:44]
Erica Alexander
A lot of what I think is just in my head because I've had to live in an isolated space in my head for a long time. It's not necessarily healthy. So I'm actually trying to say more of what I mean and what I want and. And taking the chance that you could lose people. But the people who stay and understand you, who know who you really are, those are your tribe. That's the people that just because you need to have that kind of outlet won't abandon you. And so maybe abandonment is an issue for me and it made me be very self sufficient. It made me also have to be very pragmatic. I don't necessarily have reps who are coming to my aid and I don't really like to tell people what I'm going through. That comes from having a mother and a father who were both orphans, and we were alone on that mountain in Arizona and in New Mexico. And so everything just got folded into what could be done today. You know, let's get over this hump. And so after a while, you live your life that way, but you do have a right to start to work these things out. And as you say, people say, oh, let's unpack that. Used to hate that phrase. I was like, that's so stupid. And I said, you know what you need? You have a lot to unpack. So I think that's tough. And I try not to go too much into it because I always cry. But the truth is, I also know that my tears are just as important, if not more important, than my laughter. And that's the other thing. We suppress our tears, but not our laughter. That is wrong. Every time you feel the urge to cry, you should cry. Because I'm teaching myself as an actress how to stop myself from emoting in front of people. And I can't, because when I need that skill set and they say, action, and they. And I hit the mark, I have to have a very fluid conversation with my emotions. And so I don't do that. I could say, oh, I don't want to cry in my makeup, but truth is, I do cry. I do show people I hurt. I do talk about things. And I may get it wrong, but you're going to see it raw. And I think it's important. But it's also, you're seeing me manage being an actor who must engage with my facilities, and I can't play games with it just because I think other people will be uncomfortable.
- [23:55]
Kim Coles
I'm perfectly sane.
- [23:57]
Erica Alexander
All is well.
- [23:59]
Kim Coles
There's nothing wrong. Why would there be something wrong, ever? Mental health, excuse you? I am and will always be a little bit cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. And that's okay, too, I would say. So the mental health journey for me is. After living single ended, I went into depression, and that's something that we're all discovering as we talked to our castmates. We all had our. Our moment of separation because the show ended so quickly and so abruptly for me. I went through a. A very intense time of over shopping. That was my bias of choice. And I realized through therapy that it was that I didn't feel worthy to have money and success, particularly because I'm the first generation that didn't finish college. My grandmother went back to College in the 50s, in her 50s, when black women only got to do that and understood that. My father has his doctorate in education. I felt Guilty that I was making this money and had dropped out of college a hundred times. And so then I shopped in my money, and then I got help. I got, you know, grateful for what I had. And, you know, there's a big journey behind that. I am now fierce advocate for. For really unpacking all the things. And it's ugly and it's awful. But on the other side is truth and understanding and grace. Oh, my goodness. Grace and compassion. And discovering that has opened up so much for me so that now I actually have been able to delve into this spiritual quest. You know, I study all different kinds of religions and quests and to find out there were all more alike than we're different and sort of the meaning behind a lot of all that. And I love exploring and unpacking, even if it's ugly. What's on the other side is so much more beautiful and more understanding of myself and more understanding of my fellow travelers. Like, it gives me the perspective of more compassion. You never know what somebody is dealing with, and that feels healthy and wonderful. And I'm also, you know, you talk about mentality. Creating such iconic characters can be problematic because you're so identified as that character. But I come to embrace it and love it and go, hey, Sinclair. Yes, I am Sinclair, but my name is really Kim Coles. I don't know your real name. Would you Sinclair to me? And I go, okay, that's all right, too. That something lives for this person in that space where they resonated and they felt that this girl was relatable. And I can only embrace that as I go explore so much more. We both have done a good job of exploring other gifts and talents and allowing ourselves to. I don't know, it's actually a requirement to keep growing.
- [26:41]
Erica Alexander
Got to.
- [26:42]
Kim Coles
You got to. And I think that's why this master class is so important, because there are plenty of folks that would be happy to rest in their laurels of the great Maxine Shaw, attorney.
- [26:52]
Erica Alexander
Or Sinclair.
- [26:53]
Kim Coles
Or Sinclair would happy. Like, I did that. That was great.
- [26:56]
Erica Alexander
It's like, I don't.
- [26:57]
Kim Coles
There's so much.
- [26:57]
Erica Alexander
Do you even talk about it that much? You. I mean, when you outside it. I don't even talk about the things I do because to me, once they're done. I'm not saying I don't. It does. It hasn't affected me, but I'm already beyond it once I'm even in it. Like, I'm. But you saw me do that.
- [27:15]
Kim Coles
Yeah.
- [27:15]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
You said, I'm going.
- [27:17]
Kim Coles
She used to Say, I'm going to my. I'm going to my trailer to create my comeback piece. She's going to need to come back where you're going. No, I think we have that in common, that we both have all these gifts and talents and we're unlocking all of them. I have everything in a big, giant soup and a big pot, and I go, this gift will be useful here. I take my comedy and I infuse that in my speaking and, you know, it's a great big, big Soup.
- [27:40]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I wonder.
- [27:41]
Erica Alexander
Dr. Joy might see that as me also not allowing myself to be worthy and bask and. Yeah, some of the, you know, my accomplishments. Yeah, my mom messed me up there.
- [27:52]
Kim Coles
Be humble, but that doesn't mean humble. If you don't bring. Listen, everything you do, you bring it with you. I think it's all a beautiful stew or suit, to use your words, of who you are. So it doesn't mean that I think you're very humble or as the Jamaicans say, very humble.
- [28:11]
Erica Alexander
Erica, if you take out the h, you know, that's the black woman you.
- [28:18]
Kim Coles
So What. What would Dr. Joy say?
- [28:20]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
No, I'm not going to diagnose you.
- [28:23]
Erica Alexander
Can we diagnose us from just little.
- [28:26]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
No, I would have to take a longer time to work with you to be able to.
- [28:30]
Erica Alexander
You don't want to.
- [28:30]
Kim Coles
There's a whole lot of folks that will peg you like. Let me tell you about you. I love.
- [28:34]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yes.
- [28:35]
Erica Alexander
Okay. If you watched our characters for a long time, have you diagnosed them?
- [28:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Oh, I would have to do a rewatch to do more in depth. Definitely.
- [28:42]
Kim Coles
That's how we get a second episode with you.
- [28:44]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Exactly. I would love to delve especially more into the commitment issues that Max's character had.
- [28:50]
Erica Alexander
For sure. Interesting.
- [28:52]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Exactly. Exactly. More from our conversation after the break.
- [29:02]
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- [30:16]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges but also incredible strength. Especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis or mg, and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as cidp, finding empowerment in the community is critical in the latest season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics host Martine Hackett, explores what it means to reclaim your identity, discover resilience and cultivate self advocacy. From the frustration of misdiagnosis to the small victories that fuel hope, every story told is meant to unite, uplift and empower, and that inspires us all to take one step closer to being a better advocate and seeing life from a different point of view. If you or a loved one are living with an autoimmune condition, find inspiration along your path. Listen to Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a movie comes along that feels like it was made for you, and Ruth and Boaz is one of those. Produced by Tyler Perry and Devon Franklin, this film is a modern day reimagining of the biblical story set right in our world with themes that hit love, healing and second chances. It stars Saraya as Ruth Mobley, an Atlanta hip hop artist who leaves fame behind after a tragedy moving to rural Tennessee. There she cares for Naomi, played by the legendary Phylicia Rashad, and finds an unexpected connection with Boaz, a vineyard owner brought to life by Tyler Lepley. At its heart, Ruth and Boaz is about black love. Tender, grounded and real. The chemistry between Saraya and Tyler is undeniable and the music, featuring an original song from Babyface, brings it all home. This is a story for everybody about finding peace, purpose and partnership after pain. Ruth and Boaz premieres September 26th only on Netflix. This episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. So can you talk about your career trajectory following Living Single, maybe specifically for you, Erica, because you didn't necessarily know. It sounds like Kim knew it was going to be a success, but you didn't necessarily go into it thinking it would be what it was. So what was it like to kind of continue your career after such a generational show?
- [34:11]
Erica Alexander
Yeah, it was rough to continue my career after that. It was rough for everyone. So we were going into a period where we had TV shows with black casts on it all over the place. From NBC to ABC on nm Fox built its entire network with black talent and then suddenly everything changed almost overnight. That affected everybody, not just me. If you go in and people are saying, oh you're great at this, we love you, and then nothing happens. No offers, no nothing. And you go to auditions and suddenly you're sitting with people who are coming from college and they're going what are you doing here? I'm like, I guess I'm auditioning with you for the same thing, which seems weird. And you have a step upper lip and you do it. But you also start to wear on you because you go, wait a minute, I know I just climbed a mountain and I got to Everest. Why am I climbing the same mountain? So Taraji talks about it. Certainly Monique has talked about It. It has to do with the inequities that are inherent in this business. Have to do with not only the disparity of roles, but for the fact that they actually segregated television after our shows and even ended many of our shows on the premise that it was time to sort of switch and do more mainstream shows. They'd say that and then put us to networks that were building themselves on cable, and that's the CW and WB and all those other things. You don't want to be in that position and thinking that you're starting from the beginning, but you always seem to be doing that. That's frustrating. You think, I'm in my prime. I'm 28. Let's go. And they're like, I was on the Cosby Show. I immediately saw that there were writers who were black, but also I knew that I didn't have power. I never a person who doesn't want a power. I've gone through life in unpowerful positions, and it's not good. So you want to have more collaboration, more say so I thought I'd teach myself writing, but I didn't have the discipline, and I didn't have the skill set, the craft. I didn't have the ideas. You have to sit in a chair and then come back and rewrite and. And put something down in paper. It's a very brave thing to do. And you do it over long, long time. I ended up marrying a writer, and he was the one who really locked it in and said, erica, you're never going to be good at that unless you do it. And then I started to do it, and my life started to change. Got more opportunities as a comic book writer, as a screenplay writer, as, you know, more text prose. Then I became a surrogate inside the political sphere, where you're always riding, but through a different pov. I'm a surrogate for Hillary. I'm a surrogate for Kamala. I'm a surrogate for this senator. I'm a surrogate for Stacey Abrams. All these people, how do I speak about myself? But through the policy and lens of legislation and legislators, that's also making you have to refine your thoughts. And so years and years of that and then also just doing the damn thing created opportunities. And then people started coming to me. Joss Whedon said, hey, we spend that off for Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
- [37:15]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
And.
- [37:15]
Erica Alexander
And you'll give me a group of here's what I need. Boom, boom. And then goes away. The John Lewis office say, hey, we. You have a Production company. It started with Ben Arnon, who's my partner. Hey, are you interested in a documentary about the congressman? Sure. And suddenly you're doing John Lewis. Good trouble because someone's giving you a shot and that leads to a reparations documentary. And now you're directing and you're in the DGA and you're learning things. So all these things that you think don't matter, it adds up to a life and a career that you can be proud of. But you must do the foundational work. And the foundational work I needed was to know that one monkey don't stop no show. I'm an actress, but also an intelligent person. And I knew I couldn't make a living waiting for the next job. I would have to grow, I would have to expand. More importantly, I had to be just as good there, hopefully as I was in acting. I do think that's my core skill set, but not now. I feel more confident as a creator and a performer and also producer. But it's a hard thing. You do it every day and you sometime miss and sometime you hit. But at least I'm there. And a new thing comes around and you find out that what you didn't know then you can apply and next thing you know, boom, you've locked in. I know how to do that, so I'm grateful. And that's what I think is the next few decades for me is gonna hopefully me doubling down on that and expanding and growing and building an empire.
- [38:42]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Oh, we love it. What about you, Kim? What has post living single career pursuits been like for you?
- [38:49]
Kim Coles
Building a Kimpire?
- [38:54]
Erica Alexander
See, I'm quit.
- [38:57]
Kim Coles
Same thing, you know, while Erica sits instead, I'm going to my trailer to create a comeback piece. I was doing my version of that too. And so I wrote my first book in my trailer at Living Single. And that time that I was struggling with shopping and not working because I wasn't getting the auditions either. The same boat. But we didn't talk about this at the time. I thought that I would go on to the next height and heights and height. Don't you love people who say height? Not height, height. I'm sorry. To the height, the zenith. None of that was happening. And so I figured, figured out just as Erica did, I needed to hone my gifts and talents in all these other areas. And so I took my knowledge and mastery, whatever mastery I had as a stand up comedian, and moved it into the world of speaking because I didn't want to go on the road as a stand up Comedian week after week after week. People don't know that that's the unglamorous. That's what most comics do. You go on the road to make your money. And I knew that would age me and take tire me out. But I could do it as a speaker. I can go and make one talk and make as much as I could on six shows on a weekend in Albuquerque or whatever. So I built out my speaker business. I started writing more books and writing more programs. I have an online academy and started building that in the realm of speaking and using humor and heart and infusing that in your speaking. Then fell in love with being an entrepreneur, which actors don't talk about this much, but we are entrepreneurs for sure. So I took whatever I learned and developed this love, really of entrepreneurs. And now I teach entrepreneurs how to be better speakers, how to write their books. I have my own publishing company called Hot Kohl's Publishing. I use my knowledge and my platform to help teach others how to lift and have their own empires. And so now what's happened is if Hollywood does it call, I go like, okay, that's all right. But I mean, I'm be over here doing what I can do. And there's nothing better than taking your gifts and talents and abilities directly to the people. There's no guy in a suit in an ivory tower going, she's the one or she's not the one, or she's gaining too much weight or she's too this or not enough that. Like, the people get to decide. And once I realized that the power was in the people's hands, and I always felt that as a comedian, that it's about the audience. If I can please the audience, if I can bring them along on a journey, then I will have decades and decades of work that I got to generate and I get to be in control of. And the jobs come. We both have shows that we're working on. It's like, oh, you want me to come and eat free food? Thank you. You stand for that camera. The free food is the best part. You know, be able to continue to contribute to my SAG health. Sure, I'll do that. And I get to do this other thing that is fulfilling and that I get to take directly to the people. And that's what we have in common. We've done it in different ways, but it's the thing that we have in common.
- [41:50]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
More from our conversation after the break.
- [41:58]
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- [43:12]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we wanted to be. Degree holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work, earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges but also incredible strength, especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis or or MG and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as cidp. Finding empowerment in the community is critical in the latest season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics host Martine Hackett explores what it means to reclaim your identity, discover resilience and cultivate self advocacy. From the frustration of misdiagnosis to the small victories that fuel hope, every story told is meant to unite, uplift and empower, and that inspires us all to take one step closer to being a better advocate and seeing life from a different point of view. If you or a loved one are living with an autoimmune condition. Find inspiration along your path. Listen to Untold Stories life with a severe autoimmune condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Sometimes a movie comes along that feels like it was made for you and Ruth and Boaz is one of those Produced by Tyler Perry and Devon Franklin, this film is a modern day reimagining of the biblical story set right in our world with themes that hit love, healing and second chances. It stars Saraya as Ruth Mobley, an Atlanta hip hop artist who leaves fame behind after a tragedy, moving to rural Tennessee. There she cares for Naomi, played by the legendary Phylicia Rashad, and finds an unexpected connection with Boaz, a vineyard owner brought to life by Tyler Lepley. At its heart, Ruth and Boaz is about black love, tender, grounded and real. The chemistry between Saraya and Tyler is undeniable and the music, featuring an original song from Babyface, brings it all home. This is a story for everybody about finding peace, purpose and partnership after pain. Ruth and Boaz premieres September 26th only on Netflix. This episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you're booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When I travel somewhere, I'm typically determined to try the best local pizza and find the best spa experience. With Chase Sapphire Reserve you have access to everything from private dinners hosted by award winning chefs to VIP treatment at the most sought after events. Chase Sapphire Reserve allows you to take advantage of one of a kind experiences while earning three times points on dining worldwide. No matter your destination, travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Discover more with Chase sapphire reserve@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan, Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply. And what would you say about the lasting impact that living single has had in terms of how black women are portrayed in the media?
- [46:55]
Kim Coles
I can't even speak to how proud I am of these four women. We, you know, we looked different, we had different qualities and yet we have this sisterhood that I think resonated with others. Others saw their aunties, their cousins, their little sister, their big sister in us and I love that we loved each other. You know, it's a sitcom. Of course there's jokes, of course there was always a coming together both behind the scenes and on camera and I'm really proud that we represented the antithesis of what they say about black women. We were professional and funny and vulnerable and kind and sometimes angry and sometimes all the things we were all the things done in a very classy, fun, experiential way. And I love that people love that about us. I love that they resonate with us. Did I answer the question?
- [47:58]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah, absolutely you did. Is there anything you would add, Erica?
- [48:02]
Kim Coles
I'm proud of that.
- [48:03]
Erica Alexander
This is our leg of the race. This is what we were born for. We were made for this mission. And as black women, if you see the people who've come before us, from Shirley Chisholm to Ida B. Wells to great Harriet Tubman, they talk about what they did so we could be here and have this. The privilege of telling our stories in. It's huge, but it's what's expected of us. And I think that I want to just always remember that they had it harder than we did. Certainly Hattie McDaniel and Butterfly McQueen did, and Cecily Tyson and, you know, Regina Taylor, Diner Carol. These amazing things, you know, that they've done, they never got a chance to talk about. But we are talking about it. So I'm grateful for this. But I also remember that I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. And that's a gift because there's so many people out here that don't. I was with Kyle Bowser, who's head of the NAACP Hollywood Chapter. He's the husband of Yvette Lee Bowser. By the way, props to her for creating the Road and doing so much of that her whole life. But he said that if there's maybe a million creators of color, but there's 43 million black people, we are the vessel that is used to tell their stories. So we need to remember it's something that we need to be mindful of and how we move in the world and not to make it any more precious than it needs to be. That we are culture makers of extraordinary gifts. The biggest culture makers in world history, there's no doubt. But we were chosen a very small set to do it. And so we should remember that. And so thanks to Kyle for reminding. Everyone should know out there, if you choose to do this, not everybody will be able to make it. It ain't for Sissy Child. My goodness. And the mental toughness you have to have and you have to work when no one's looking. If you can work when no one's looking and do the work, you will be rewarded once the light shines. And it will come. But we need to see all that Work once it shines again, and then it comes faster, because then people see what you're about. And the lean moments, that's where you're supposed to grow and live life. And you're supposed to bring that to bear for your people, for the culture, but also for the world. If we do that, then nothing can destroy us. And I'm saying as human beings. But if we stop doing that, if we continue to regurgitate other people's ideas and not take chances and not make mistakes and not live out loud, then we are being just a piece of ourselves and asking for permission to be here. But we've earned it. They made sure that they sacrificed so much. So we knew that we earn it. And we know that we earn it every day by showing up and doing our best.
- [50:47]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I feel like we've already gotten a master class. But as we close up, is there any additional advice that you might give to a young black woman in the entertainment industry or making her way in entertainment, about how to create work that is both authentic and healing well?
- [51:02]
Erica Alexander
You already are authentic. You have to own it, own yourself. But just because it's there doesn't mean that you don't have to nurture it and do the work. You have to go outside of your borders. You can't just continue to do the same thing. You must go and sit in different churches, sit in different corridors, ask people different questions, but mostly listen. And listen. Turn off the noise, turn off the tv, the games, all of that. You won't know what you think until you allow your brain to even process what it's seen. And so I think we don't often give ourselves a chance to sit there and just let the breeze go by while we download so we can have our own ideas. So you are authentic. You do have your own ideas. You should matriculate and make sure that you do the work. But you should haul ass. Everything takes much more time than you think. Everything. And so don't get caught up in the little minutia. You've got other things to do and your biggest thing hasn't appeared yet. And you'll probably be saying that to the day you die. So I just want to give you love and make sure that you know that even though you think you aren't seen. We're doing our best to project a version of ourselves that includes you. But that doesn't dismiss that your work here isn't important. You must come and do the work. That's your job.
- [52:21]
Kim Coles
I always find myself going, how do I follow that?
- [52:24]
Erica Alexander
No Steve Job.
- [52:26]
Kim Coles
So I'll follow that by saying, giving a gift that was given to me and I wish I could remember who it was. It was a female actress who was older and it was early in my career. And she said, this is how your career is going to go. And it helped me so much, I'm going to use my own name. But insert your name and it's. Whether it's show business or anything you choose to do, this is how your life is going to go. Who is Kim Coles? Introducing Kim Coles. Get me Kim Coles. Get me a Kim Coles type. Can you get me a cheaper Kim Coles? Can you get me a younger Kim Kohl's? Who is Kim Coles? And she gave me. I wish I could. Isn't that good? She said, you're going to have ages and stages and they may come and they may repeat again. And they. I remember the day I auditioned for something against the younger version of me. I was like, I've reached that stage. But I was prepared for it. I was ready for it. And so for you to know that there will be ups and downs, there will be stage, there'll be moments that you feel that you've arrived and moments that go, no, it's not your term this time. And so prepare for all of that. Do what Erica just said. Study, learn. Go places you've never been before. Explore, challenge yourself. So you get to decide what your yeses and nos are. Be very clear what your yeses and no's are being guided by that. Be guided by your instinct. Have a spiritual life, whoever the God of your understanding is going and get that so that you have an understanding and a knowing. When you walk into a room, whether or not you're really meant to be there, you're meant to be in every room. I don't mean in that way, but I mean. And you're meant to say yes and no to things. Saying no can actually be one of the most.
- [54:10]
Erica Alexander
A moral foundation, a moral integrity. Integrity, yes.
- [54:15]
Kim Coles
And so I was given that gift to be prepared for all the ages and stages. So I don't get scared at any of it anymore. I go, oh, that's what that is. What does that mean? Maybe I need to retreat and take this time off to be quiet and learn, or to be quiet and do nothing and wait for divine, you know, interaction. And that all of the journey is beautiful, even when it's ugly. And to accept all of it is part of your growth and what you're meant to leave for the Next generation, you're going to sit and do an interview just like this one day and you're going to marvel at your comings and goings and the ups and downs of all of it. And to really be grateful for every single piece of it will help ground it for you. So that's what I would say.
- [55:00]
Erica Alexander
I love it. I love it. You know, it's so funny. I just want to say one thing about being. Well, the light went out. Well, that was it.
- [55:07]
Kim Coles
We still look good. That was it. What were you gonna say?
- [55:09]
Erica Alexander
I was gonna say that people think that being in comedy or having comedy means that you know that. That you're not serious. But I find that comedians and people are funny that are the most people with more. They're serious as a heart attack. Got to be.
- [55:22]
Kim Coles
We were talking about this the other day that there's a. You know, there's the comedy mask, but there's also the tragedy mask. And they. They live. They live together. They live in the same space. Welcome. Well, the comedy and the tragedy mask.
- [55:36]
Erica Alexander
Yeah. Little live. Well, one more.
- [55:39]
Kim Coles
One more. I always like warm.
- [55:41]
Erica Alexander
There was it. That was it.
- [55:42]
Kim Coles
The comedy and tragedy mask live for. You know, those are the symbols in. In the ying and baby Ying and the yang. It's. It's all divine.
- [55:51]
Erica Alexander
So if you want to be funny, you better get serious.
- [55:55]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
We love it.
- [55:59]
Kim Coles
The joy, right, Dr. Joy.
- [56:00]
Erica Alexander
I love it.
- [56:01]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, this has been so wonderful to chat with you. Please let us know where can we stay connected with your work? Where can we check out the podcast?
- [56:10]
Kim Coles
We can go to at reliving single podcast on all the Spotify. I highly recommend YouTube because we look so good. Spotify and all places. And you can follow Eric Alexandra the great. And I am Kim Coles at Kim Coles. Not I, Kim Coles. And we're out there doing our thing.
- [56:31]
Erica Alexander
Yes. And thank you by the way, for the support over the years. It's been phenomenal. We were just hanging out and at an event, a big event. And it was no, it was the standing room only and filled the place and was one of the biggest events. So we really feel the love after all these years. We would not be here without you. You're creating this. The success of the show is only because our fans will demand it. It's not because we earned it or deserve it. That's not how this works. It's because we demand it. Those numbers matter. So anybody that's already liked, followed and watched the whole episodes through. You're creating this space. But you're also it's a long marathon and not just us, other people are coming to do it. And so we need to set the stage for how we need to not only be taken seriously, but also how we're promoted and marketed and that builds the case. So thank you so much for our friends. We saw our friends.
- [57:25]
Kim Coles
That's one part fan, one part friends. And thank you, Dr. Joy, for creating the platform to have deep, rich conversations about rental wellness and mental health. The buzzy thing is self Care Saturday, but the truth, it's mental wellness every day. Thank you for having that perspective. And we're inviting ourselves to come back on our show after you've analyzed us.
- [57:47]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Oh, of course. Anytime you have an open invitation, a.
- [57:50]
Kim Coles
Little free therapy won't hurt.
- [57:51]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Doesn't hurt anybody, right?
- [57:56]
Erica Alexander
Thanks.
- [57:58]
Kim Coles
Analyze Me as a free DC notice.
- [58:03]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you. A huge thank you to Erica Alexander and Kim Coles for joining me for this conversation. Don't forget to check out the Reliving Single podcast and don't forget to text this episode to Truth of your Girls right now and tell them to check it out. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions for the podcast? If you have books or movies you'd like us to review or or have thoughts about topics you'd like to hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our Therapist directory at therapy for black girls.com directory and don't forget to follow us over on Instagram at Theapy for Black Girls. Or join us over in our Patreon Channel to talk more about the episodes and get more behind the scenes content. Content. You can join us at Community therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu, and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care. These days most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode island all that. Plan your trip today@Visit Rhode Island.com that's Visit Rhode Island.com Many of us play lots of different roles in life for partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. living with a rare autoimmune condition comes with challenges but also incredible strength. Especially for those living with conditions like myasthenia gravis and chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, otherwise known as cidp. Finding empowerment in the community is critical. Untold Stories Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition A Ruby Studio production in partnership with Argenics explores people discovering strength in the most unexpected places. Listen to untold Stories on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge by the club at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank NA member FDIC subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [61:41]
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- [62:37]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Com.
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Washable Sofas Advertiser
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- [62:40]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
This is an I Heart podcast.