Therapy for Black Girls — Session 433

"Erykah Badu x Jill Scott: 25 Years of Mama’s Gun & Who Is Jill Scott?"

Podcast Host: Dr. Joy Harden Bradford
Guest: Taryn Finley, journalist and founder of the Unbothered Platform
Theme: Celebrating the 25th anniversary of two iconic neo-soul albums—Erykah Badu’s Mama’s Gun and Jill Scott’s Who Is Jill Scott? Words and Sounds Vol. 1—while exploring their profound impact on Black womanhood, self-expression, healing, and music history.
Release Date: October 15, 2025

Episode Overview

Dr. Joy Harden Bradford and journalist Taryn Finley dive into the enduring legacy of Erykah Badu’s Mama’s Gun and Jill Scott’s Who Is Jill Scott?, reflecting on how these albums transformed representations of Black women in music. The discussion covers the birth of neo-soul, the honesty and vulnerability in both artists’ work, shifts in aesthetics and self-perception, and the albums’ influence on healing and generational connection. The episode also touches on the challenges and possibilities for “neo-soul” in today’s music landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Impact and Staying Power of Mama’s Gun and Who Is Jill Scott?

• Both albums emerged during neo-soul’s golden era in 2000, alongside works by D’Angelo, Lauryn Hill, Bilal, and others.
• Jill Scott’s debut was “like honey—soulful, sultry, seductive,” addressing love, desire, and self-worth for Black women, especially plus-size women who had been excluded from sexual agency in music videos and public imagery.
• Mama’s Gun showcased Erykah Badu’s evolution from her first album (Baduizm) and leaned into Afro-futurism, self-authorship, and breaking industry conventions.

“Jill is like, hey, like I’m fine as hell. And not only am I fine, but I enjoy sex. My man enjoys sex with me. [...] she centers herself in this conversation.”
— Taryn Findley (07:57)

“Erykah wrote this album... completely herself... breaking away from the labels and narratives that the industry really tried to confine her to.”
— Taryn Findley (09:34)

2. The Roots and Rise of Neo-Soul (11:04–13:25)

• Neo-soul’s roots trace to the late 90s and early 2000s, differentiated by its live instrumentation, community-driven artistry, and blending of influences from icons like Billie Holiday, Aretha Franklin, and Patti LaBelle.
• No single founder, but a “communal feeling of soul” marked the movement.

“One really beautiful thing about Neo soul... we start hearing a lot of live instrumentation from these artists... collaboration... a communal feeling of soul.”
— Taryn Findley (11:56)

3. Gender, Authorship, and Vulnerability (16:18–21:36)

• Women artists—Jill Scott, Erykah Badu, India.Arie, Lauryn Hill, Macy Gray—expanded neo-soul by centering their own narratives: love, sex, politics, insecurity, and healing.
• Songs like Erykah Badu’s “Green Eyes” and Jill Scott’s “Getting in the Way” exemplified radical honesty about jealousy, breakups, and processing pain without filtering for a male gaze.

"They were not the side character in their own stories... these records felt like they had not only an empowered voice but also a very self-aware and self-reflective voice."
— Taryn Findley (16:42)

"There's so much power in stating that and singing that and going in that direction."
— Taryn Findley on "Green Eyes" (17:40)

4. Intergenerational Resonance (24:46–25:27)

• The music bridges generations—Dr. Joy experienced it as a young adult in college; Taryn as a child, inspired by her mother and aunties’ connection to the songs.
• The albums remain a soundtrack for Black womanhood at any age.

5. Broadening Black Womanhood & Changing Aesthetics (25:30–34:43)

• Both albums expanded public images of Black women: moving from video vixen stereotypes to centering everyday joys, sensuality, and self-possession.
• Neo-soul artists influenced shifts toward natural hair, Afrocentric and bohemian fashion, and body diversity.

"After Jill Scott and Erykah Badu and Macy Gray... women embracing their natural hair, women wearing clothes... of the diaspora... it did feel like there was a building upon of the Black pride movement of the 60s and 70s."
— Taryn Findley (31:44)

"That is so powerful, to just randomly shave your head off... to come out and say, 'I am not my hair'—it broke Black women out of the traditional mold that we had been seen in."
— Taryn Findley (33:55)

6. Navigating Industry Competition vs. Community (34:43–38:47)

• The music industry attempted to pit Badu and Scott against one another, yet both approached their work as colleagues and collaborators, often supporting each other.

"Even as these two albums... came out in the same year, the critics absolutely tried to pit these albums against each other... And Erykah Badu did not let them."
— Taryn Findley (36:23)

7. Healing and Affirmation Themes (38:47–42:43)

• Both albums serve as healing tools, offering affirmations, boundary-setting, and honest depictions of growth and vulnerability.

“Jilltro, the first track... she’s introducing herself with who and what she loves... how fluid love is and can be when we have a good and healthy relationship with ourselves.”
— Taryn Findley (39:13)

“Mama's Gun feels like a double entendre... She is equipping herself so that she can protect her son, the future generation... By protecting herself spiritually, emotionally, physically, she's able to carry on the future generation...”
— Taryn Findley (40:45)

8. The Challenge of Radical Vulnerability in Modern Music (42:43–45:31)

• Discussion around whether albums like these could find the same audience and impact if released today, given industry focus on “numbers” and social media virality.
• Newer artists like Ari Lennox are highlighted as carrying the torch but face structural challenges.

“Unfortunately, we're getting albums that are so rich in the messages they tell, and even the talent... but unfortunately, I don't think they are rising to meet the expectations of music execs... because they don't have the TikTok numbers.”
— Taryn Findley (43:16)

9. Neo-Soul’s Ongoing Legacy & New Voices (45:31–47:17)

• Rae Khalil, Ari Lennox, Anderson .Paak, and even Beyoncé are noted as contemporary artists who echo the classic neo-soul tradition, genre-blending, and message-driven music.

“Her debut album was amazing and it felt like it spoke to so many of these themes that we were talking about... from her perspective as a Black queer woman is so refreshing...”
— Taryn Findley (45:44)

10. Where to Begin: Entry Points to the Albums (51:24–55:22)

• Taryn’s recommendations:
  • Who Is Jill Scott? – “Slowly, Surely” (“draws a boundary in the sand... such an affirming and just, sure, self-assured way to say I’m not doing this,” 52:21)
  • Mama’s Gun – “Orange Moon” (“You could take it several ways... but to hear love from the perspective of how it makes you better... is so beautiful to me,” 53:18)
• Dr. Joy’s picks:
  • Mama’s Gun – “Bag Lady” (“the very first song that was really talking, I think about boundaries without calling them that,” 54:39)
  • Who Is Jill Scott? – “The Way” (“probably one of the most beautiful songs still ever to have been created,” 55:01)

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the radical self-centering of Black women:
  “They were not the side character in their own stories.”
  — Taryn Findley (16:42)
• On the healing power of these albums:
  “These women’s voices have become the salve that continues to provide, if not answers, relief and help me feel seen.”
  — Taryn Findley (21:25)
• On industry pressures and artistry:
  “Erykah Badu said, okay, absolutely not. I got out everything that I needed to for my own healing, for my own artistry.”
  — Taryn Findley (37:38)
• On legacy and the future:
  “In 25 years, we are going to be having the same conversation about Solange's albums and Ari Lennox albums and so many of these artists who... are slowly but surely getting their flowers from us.”
  — Taryn Findley (57:33)

Key Timestamps

• [03:34] Celebration of 25 years of Mama’s Gun & Who Is Jill Scott?
• [06:42] The cultural impact and why these albums endure
• [11:04] The origins and spirit of neo-soul
• [16:42] The influence of women on the genre’s depth and honesty
• [25:54] How the albums expanded ideas about Black womanhood
• [31:44] The aesthetic shift in Black women’s beauty, hair, and style
• [34:49] Industry’s attempt to create competition & the artists’ response
• [39:13] Healing, affirmation, and the power of honest self-expression
• [51:39] Starter tracks for both albums
• [55:36] Predictions for the next 25 years of neo-soul and R&B legacy

Concluding Thoughts

The episode is a rich tribute to the influential work of Erykah Badu and Jill Scott, weaving together threads of music history, gender, healing, self-definition, and the ongoing journey of neo-soul. Dr. Joy and Taryn both emphasize how these albums created new possibilities for Black women’s presence—sonically, aesthetically, emotionally, and spiritually. Their impact continues to ripple through the work of new artists and the hearts of listeners across generations.

Where to Connect

• Taryn Findley:

  • Substack: letstayconnected.substack.com
  • Instagram/TikTok: @_tearingitup
  • Website: tarynfindley.com

• Therapy for Black Girls Community:

  • therapyforblackgirls.com
  • Instagram: @therapyforblackgirls
  • Patreon/Community: community.therapyforblackgirls.com

This summary covers all meaningful content while reflecting the episode’s rich conversational tone and memorable insights, with speaker attribution and timestamps for reference.