← Therapy for Black Girls
Therapy for Black Girls
Session 433: Erykah Badu x Jill Scott- 25 Years of Mama’s Gun & Who Is Jill Scott?
00:51:47
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- [00:11]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small decisions we can make to become the best possible versions of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford, a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For for more information or to find a therapist in your area, visit our website@therapyforblackgirls.com while I hope you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with a licensed mental health professional. Hey y', all, thanks so much for joining me for session 433 of the therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our conversation after word from our sponsors.
- [01:10]
Taryn Findley
This is an I Heart Podcast.
- [01:14]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [02:55]
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- [03:34]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
This week we're celebrating two iconic albums that have shaped the sound and soul of a generation. Erykah Badu's Mama's Gun and Jill Scott's who Is Jill? Words and sounds volume one. Both turned 25 this year. Joining me for this nostalgic and soul filled conversation is Taryn Findley, journalist and founder of the Unbothered Platform. Together we explore how these albums captured the essence of Black womanhood, love, sensuality and self discovery and why they remain powerful touchstones for healing and self expression.
- [04:09]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Today.
- [04:11]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
We also talk about the emotional honesty both artists brought to their music and how their art continues to inspire new generations to embrace softness, vulnerability and joy. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tvgincession or join us over in our Patreon to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com here's our conversation.
- [04:42]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Thank you so much for joining us.
- [04:43]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Taryn.
- [04:44]
Taryn Findley
Thank you for having me. Dr. Joy, longtime listener. You know I love the work that you do. Thank you.
- [04:51]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Thank you.
- [04:51]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
I know we talked a long time ago. I feel like it might have been in the pandemic. You interviewed me for a piece. It feels like quite some years ago. So it's been some time since we chatted.
- [05:01]
Taryn Findley
Yeah, it's crazy because the pandemic was like it started five years ago, but it feels like it's been a lot less time than that. So it's really great to reconnect. Yes, yes.
- [05:13]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So tell the people who you are and a little bit about your background.
- [05:17]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
As a music journalist.
- [05:19]
Taryn Findley
I am Taryn Findley. I am a cultural reporter. I've been doing this for over a decade. So far I covered a lot of music in my role as Black Voices editor and senior culture reporter at HuffPost, especially a lot in regards to R and B and retrospective looks into hip hop. I did a lot for the 50th anniversary of hip hop coverage over there. And music, specifically black music, has been such a a huge through line in my reporting because it's been Such a huge through line in my life. I'm currently writing about it for my own personal substack. Let me plug that first@letstayconnected.substack.com Refinery 29, XO Nicole, Contraband Camp, Essence and a few other places.
- [06:17]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Yeah, so this definitely has been. It feels like you are someone who has had your finger on the pulse of conversations around black music, which is why we're very excited to have this conversation with you. So we are gathering today for a very special occasion because both mama's gun and who is Jill Scott are both celebrating 25 years. So can you talk about the impact of these albums and why you think they still have such staying power even a quarter of a century later?
- [06:43]
Taryn Findley
Oh my goodness, 2000 was such a year for heavy hitting albums. Obviously. Who is Jill Scott? The Jill Scott debut album came out earlier that year and then later in November, Mama's Gone. And just to back up into like this kind of window in time where neo soul was having such a huge moment, we have work from deangelo Bilal, Lauryn Hill coming out and really redefining and reshaping how we listen to this genre on the radio and in within, quote, unquote mainstream. So when we look at. I'll start with who is Jill Scott? This is Jill Scott's debut album. We hear her bust on the scene at that live performance with the Roots, the iconic My Name is J I L L S E O T T And her making this introduction in such a soulful, sultry, seductive and really just like her debut album felt almost like honey. Not to be too cliche, but you know, she even has a song on that album called Honey Molasses. And that was such a great descriptor for not only the. The texture of her voice in her lyrics, but also how it was received, right? She's talking about love, she's talking about sex, she's talking about being desired. And this is such a huge thing because not only is she a black woman, but she's also plus size. And during the 2000s we see sex being sold and toted as a thing that is that only hyper fit and super skinny, conventionally attractive, quote unquote, people lean into the model S, the all of that. And Jill is like, hey, like I'm fine as hell. And not only am I fine, but I enjoy sex. My man enjoys sex with me. And not only that, we enjoy being in love together. And it isn't in a way that it is from the male's gaze, but more so like, she centers herself in this conversation. Similarly with Erykah Badu and Mama's Gun. Now, the difference when it comes to Mama's Gun, however, is that Erykah Badu, this was her sophomore album and it released to kind of tepid reviews. You know, you had half of the critics saying that they loved it and you know that it was experimental. And of course it leaned into this Afro futuristic sound and narrative and. And Erica wrote this album, most of this album, completely herself. And then you have the other half who are like, what is this? This isn't a baduism. This is a flop commercially, even though it sold. Went on to sold 1 million records the following year, which that numbers are really subjective at this point. But you see Erica not only censoring herself and her experience, but also breaking away from the labels and narratives that the industry really tried to confine her to when she released Baduism. And I could go on and on, but I feel like these two. There's so much to say about it. And I know we're gonna get into both of these bodies of work even more so.
- [10:56]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Yeah. So, Taryn, you probably have a better sense of this, but what is the actual history of how we got to Neo Soul?
- [11:05]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Because there had already been like a.
- [11:07]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Steady stream of R and B, but this did feel like a departure from.
- [11:10]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That in some ways.
- [11:11]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So is there somebody who's really credited with the beginnings of Neo soul? And how did we get there?
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Taryn Findley
That's a really good question. I don't know if there's one specific person, and if there is, then, you know, listeners, please come out and correct me and let me know. But like I said, we had, especially in this corridor of the 90s and early 2000s, such a breadth of artists coming out. You have D' Angelo with Vudu and you have Bilal, Raphael Siddiq. So many artists who leaned into the black sounds that we have heard from generations before, like Billie Holiday, like an Aretha Franklin, like a Patti LaBelle, and putting again, this kind of Afro futuristic, yet very grounded and earthy undertone in it. One really beautiful thing about Neo soul and what we really start hearing, especially as we're turning into the new millennium, we start hearing a lot of live instrumentation from these artists. And not only that, but also collaboration. And it wasn't uncommon to hear or see a Raphael Siddiq in d' Angelo collaborating or a Erykah Badu in Questlove. And in the studio, a lot of times there was this communal feeling of soul that they came Together to create. That really brought out the heart of neo soul. And I think is what's evident then and even years later now as we listen to all of these records and listen to all of these artists, that that sound is so evident. And I know we'll get into this later, but there are a lot of artists that are sampling and trying to recreate those sounds now.
- [13:26]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
What do you feel like was happening in the R and B and hip.
- [13:29]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Hop space that really gave way to neo soul?
- [13:33]
Taryn Findley
Oh, wow. We were seeing sub genres come out the woodwork. Of course, R and B itself had such a moment in the 90s where you have these groups like Black and Boyz II Men. And, you know, their sound was really the sound of the decade. When you turned on the radio, the crooners were really the ones who were winning the airwaves, which was such a beautiful thing. But it couldn't be just about, not necessarily saying that these artists were super one dimensional or anything, but it couldn't just be about just sex or just love or just, you know, it had to take another step. It had to elevate in a way. And so in a way, these neo soul artists were the ones who came through and added a bit more depth. They were the ones who really made you think and the ones who created and sung lyrics that gave more of a heaviness and more of a feel in humanity and was a bit more accessible to everyday people. And they were very direct in who their audience were, which was us. Us as black people. I think one thing that was really interesting to me, specifically when we talk about Erica writing Mama sky, was she had recently gone over to Motown for the album. And Motown wanted R. Kelly and Babyface to help her write this album, But Badu declined. And she said that she respected their music, but that's not the parallel that she wanted to do. And she wanted to evolve, she wanted to elevate. And she said that she trusts her fans enough to evolve with her. And that was a big risk and that was such a big step. And I think that was something that a lot of these neo soul artists were doing. They were walking to the beat of their own drum, but still taking from what we know and of that like 80s 90s R&B and hip hop sound.
- [16:18]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
As you've been talking, Taryn, you talk about, there were so many men, I think, that were influential in the neo soul movement.
- [16:25]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [16:25]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
But it does feel like, because we're talking about Jill Scott and Erykah Badu, but also I think India Ari You've already mentioned Lauryn Hill. Like, there were a lot of women.
- [16:34]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
That were instrumental in Neo Soul.
- [16:36]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Can you talk about, like the way that women and women's presence really expanded what Neo Soul was for us?
- [16:43]
Taryn Findley
Oh, my goodness, yes, absolutely. Again, when I think of who is Jill Scott, when I think of Mama's Gun, even albums that Macy Gray, India, Lauryn Hill dropped, these were albums in which these women are talking about love, sex, relationships, politics, identity in ways that censored themselves. They were not the, they were not the side character in their own stories. Which unfortunately, in a lot of R and B we have seen, especially R and B of yesteryear. Love those records down. But these albums, these records felt like they had not only an empowered voice, but also a very self aware and self reflective voice. I even think about Green Eyes by Erykah Badu. And that was a direct song that she wrote in four parts in response to her breakup with Andre 3000. Of course, they had just had their son seven, as she was producing and creating this album. And what was really interesting to me is the admittance of like, hey, yeah, I'm a little insecure here. And I'm going through it. I'm going through the cycles of heartbreak and of breakup and of mourning this relationship, mourning what I thought was going to be in seeing that, okay, I need to move on, but I'm not sure exactly how to do that. There's so much power in stating that and singing that and really going, going in that direction. I even think about one of my probably like toxic favorite songs. And I don't know if it's toxic, but getting in the Way by Jill Scott on who Is Jill Scott? Was such. When I listened to it beforehand, which is what I think is a beautiful thing about these retrospectives. When I listened to it beforehand, it felt like she was arguing about, with this woman about like, hey, don't mess with my man. When I listen to it now, it doesn't feel like that. It feels more so, hey, girl, I know that you have feelings for him and y' all probably got something going on. And look, no disrespect to you, but you're getting in the way of what I'm feeling. She's not saying that like, it's not the boy is mine. It's you get in the way of what I'm feeling of my. The love that I have for this man. And I'm being honest with you and letting you know. And I think that that honesty and that vulnerability and transparency is what we see from these women and they took the genre to such, such a different level that we see still their actions, their decisions, that their lyrics and songstress are still reverberating in music that we're listening to today. I mean, these women are still on tour. Lauryn Hill just wrapped up a tour last year. Macy Gray, I feel like she stays on tour. And of course Mama's Gun 25th anniversary tour has commenced last month. And it's just so refreshing. It was so refreshing then as little Taryn seeing and hearing these women, listening to the adults in my life because I was probably about like 8 when it when these albums came out, listening to the adults in my life embrace this music and looking up and saying, hey, like this is what grown women listen to. Like, that's like that is really how I view these artists back then and today as I navigate my own troubles and and heal and find solutions and reasons for why life lives. These albums, these women's voices have become the solve that continues to provide, if not answers, relief and help me feel seen in the moment.
- [21:36]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [22:44]
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- [23:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [24:47]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
I love that you shared like where you were in the world because we're having a very, it feels like intergenerational conversation because I was in my senior year in college when these albums dropped, so I was in a very different place. Right. So these albums very much feel like the soundtrack to my young adulthood. Right. Like figuring out who I was as a young woman. And I love that you're saying like even years later, like you're thinking about maybe your mom and aunties listening to this music and still feeling like you can connect with it now as a young woman yourself, which I think is like just incredible that there is music that exists across time that speaks to black womanhood and black girlhood in ways that are so powerful.
- [25:27]
Taryn Findley
Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that so much.
- [25:31]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So you know, you've already talked about especially how when Jill came on the scene, it very much felt like she was a very different picture of what we were seeing in terms of the video Vixens, and you mentioned kind of women being the object of affection, but not necessarily owning their own desire. Can you talk more about how both of these albums really presented a different view of black womanhood and kind of maybe expanded the ideas about who black women were?
- [25:55]
Taryn Findley
Oh, wow. Yeah, absolutely. Because both who Is Jill Scott and Mama's Gun speak to similar things at the same time in very different ways. Like, just different avenues. And it's so interesting, like, listening to them and being able to relate to both of them in very different ways. So it. What I love is how much they take command of their own desires and their own desirability. And they weren't afraid. Erykah Badu and Jill Scott were not afraid to be that and to ask for that and to command that and to say, yes, I would like that in very different ways. Okay. Because Jill. One thing that we. I feel like we all love about Jill is how she looks at the simplicities of life, the simplicities of nature, and how she's able to compare certain things, like honey molasses or like a block party in Philly or quarter waters or scents, and it makes you feel full. Jill has a way of helping you tap into your sacral chakra as a woman and not being afraid to lean into that. This is before the more recent movements in activists who have come out and said, hey, women's sexual desires are a part of women's sexual health, and we need to talk about it. They are not taboo. And so that is such a beautiful thing to listen to and to witness sandwiched in between these stories of pain, of love, of. And to hear Jill saying he loves me. And as a black woman, like that will always feel revolutionary to hear a black woman claim that love that their partner is bestowing upon them is so beautiful. And. And then I think about Erykah Badu, where she's asking for the same in a very different way on Kiss Me on My Neck, a song that she collaborated with J. Dilla for. He was credited as JB on the album, which I think is a cute little, like, nugget, because I don't know why he chose a surname. Maybe it was to, like, not distract. But I thought that that was really cute. But, yeah, I want you to kiss me on my neck I want you to breathe on my neck and that subtlety in a very different way. I think Erica sings about it in a way that feels almost spiritual and then even a different type of love. I think about AD 2000 in which she is singing from the perspective of Amelo Diallo, who was gunned down by police in the most brutal way in 2000. And for this woman to sing from this slain black man's perspective and say, I don't want y' all to build no dilapidated buildings off of my name and name them after me, because I know that that is a passive cosmetic solution, quote, unquote, to this greater injustice. And both of these albums talk about black women's love. And I think that that specific act of her creating AD 2000 felt like such a great metaphor for what we've seen black women do time and time again. And that's show up in all of the fights, especially the fight that is for the sake in liberation and survival, in love of our people. And so I don't even know if I answered the question because I feel like I've gone in so many different directions. But that's such a testament to the vastness of womanhood that these two albums really speak to.
- [30:53]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Yeah, yeah.
- [30:54]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
It wasn't just one thing.
- [30:55]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [30:56]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Like, I. I love that there is the mix of a song about being jealous and insecure after a breakup combined with an album that has police brutality themes.
- [31:04]
Commercial Announcer
Right.
- [31:04]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Like, I think that it is a representation of all the things that we are thinking about in living in real life, testament to what was going on for them at the time. So I think in addition to the beautiful sounds and the messages that we got from these albums, I also think that we really saw a shift in the aesthetics of black womanhood after these albums. And, you know, I think kind of generally related to the neo soul movement. Like, we saw, like, you mentioned Badu with, like, the head wraps, and Gio really was embracing her natural hair. Like, we saw a real shift in. Into that. Can you talk about how the neo soul movement really changed what aesthetically it looked like to be a black woman?
- [31:45]
Taryn Findley
I don't think that I necessarily noticed too much beforehand the women who were wearing their hair natural, but after Jill Scott and Erykah Badu and Macy Gray and all of these women started to become more evident for me on my screen as a little girl watching bet, I do remember noticing more. So women embracing their natural hair, women wearing clothes that were of and related to black pride and the diaspora, and the dangly earrings that weren't necessarily just the bamboos and the door knockers, but also ones that were like, wooden of Afro picks. And it did feel like there was a building upon of the Black pride movement of the 60s and 70s within this era of neo soul. I even think about during the Mama's Gun promotion into her, and I don't even necessarily think this was for promotion because I think a lot of artists do a lot of stunts for promotion these days. But more so just because she wanted to. Erykah Badu cut her hair off because she wanted to a change and she wanted to embrace her bald head. And at one of the stops for Mama's Gun tour, she revealed her bald head from underneath her signature wrap and the crowd went wild. And I think that is something that like, that points to how much our views of what is beauty, what is black beauty, how we embrace ourselves and dress our bodies and adorn things that speak to our own pride and our own. How we self identify within this, this again, corridor of the early aughts where, like you said, video vixens were, you know, at the helm of what we used to see as beauty and how we define it. I think that, like, that is so powerful to just randomly shave your head off for people like India Ari to come out and say, I am not my hair and make these bold declarations that again, broke black women out of the traditional mold that we had been seen in.
- [34:44]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Taryn, did you get a chance to watch the verses with Jill Scott and Erykah Badu?
- [34:49]
Taryn Findley
Yes, I did.
- [34:53]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So, you know, as you're talking, I'm thinking about that because I think even it feels like an interesting juxtaposition while Jill and Erica are making all this music around like self identity and kind of affirming themselves and healing and what it feels like to be in love. They talked about on the verses how there was still kind of this competition that the industry was trying to set up, right? Like that there couldn't be a Jill and an Erica at the same time. And on the verses, I remember Erica saying, I kind of opened the doors for Jill. Right. Like, I think there was some appearance that they wanted Erica to do. She wasn't available and so she suggested Jill. And that is how Jill, I think, even got that J I L S O T moment. And so, you know, I'm thinking about that as you're talking that even as they are trying to make these like, affirming messages, the industry is still trying to pit them against one another. And it very much feels like the women of the neo soul movement had this kind of sisterhood, like collaboration kind of effort that was against. It flew in the face of what the industry wanted at the time.
- [35:59]
Taryn Findley
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And when you think about neo soul and the Message of it and the drivers behind is in opposition of mainstream music industry's rules. Right. I think a lot of people, especially today, probably think of Neo soul as being old school or whatever, but really it's Afrofuturism, it's experimental, it's eclectic, it's so many things. And unfortunately, competition is not one of them. Because neo soul is community, because that's the message behind it. And I love that you mentioned that, because even as these two albums, who Is Jill Scott And Mama's Gun, came out in the same year, the criticism between the two, like the critics, absolutely tried to pit these albums against each other. Again, Jill's debut, and it was beloved and rightfully so. Mama's Gun was not only being compared to who is Jill Scott? But it was also being compared to Baduism, which came out in 97. And critics were using Mama's Gun as a way to not only pit those two together, but again, pit Erykah Badu against Erykah Badu and. And Erykah Badu did not let them. Erykah Badu said, okay, absolutely not. Not only am I going to celebrate Jill Scott and celebrate India Ari and celebrate Macy Gray and celebrate all of these other artists who have come out, but I'm also not going to let y' all get into my head with these numbers. Yes, I might have expected a bigger. A bigger portion of the sales to come out and to surpass Badouism, but at the end of the day, I got out everything that I needed to for my own healing, for my own artistry. And when I go on tour, I see how my fans are receiving this and I see that I feel lighter because I was able to respect my own artistry. And so I think, you know, that community, that self empowerment is crucial. And that is why Erykah Badu is who she is today, because she allowed herself to experiment and to be open and collaborative in accepting a warm.
- [38:47]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So I want to stay with this message of healing because, you know, now we hear more artists are more. Much more open about, like, mental health and like the struggles that they're experiencing. I think this was before that time, right? Like, nobody was necessarily talking about therapy and all of those things. But I do think, as you've alluded to, there are some real messages of healing and affirmation that we can find in both of these albums. Can you highlight maybe a few of those healing and affirmation themes from each of those albums?
- [39:14]
Taryn Findley
Oh, wow. Yeah, absolutely. I'll start with who is Jill Scott? Because I Think that the overarching theme here feels like to me, love and Be Loved, the Jilltro, the first track on the album, she is introducing herself with who and what she loves. She loves herself. She loves poetry, she loves her city, she loves music. And we get to experience her through this. We get to experience what it looks like to love in these very simple moments, but we also get to experience and hear what it means to slowly, surely walk away from love that is not serving you anymore and how fluid love is and can be when we have a good and healthy relationship with ourselves and don't allow ourselves to be boxed in or manipulated by societal pressures, which I think is such a huge theme for how we can view dating, relationships, love, et cetera, in today's social media dominant conversations. And then for Mama's Gun, I love that Mama's Gun feels like a double entendre, right? She had just had her first son, 7. And within this conversation that she talks about again, love, identity, empowerment, politics. She is equipping herself so that she can protect her son, the future generation. And by protecting herself spiritually, emotionally, physically, she's able to carry on the future generation to greater pastures. So in higher levels that maybe she wasn't able to reach, maybe she hasn't reached yet. And while also honoring the ancestors, honoring herself and honoring the future, in honoring those feelings that don't always feel the best, she is able to show us a truth that is really why this album, and even in, in Jill Scott's case, who was Jill Scott? That that is why these two albums are able to stand the test of time, because they were born of. Of radical honesty that we needed to hear and that we still need to hear.
- [42:43]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So you know, Taryn, as you, you just talked about, especially for who is Jill Scott? Like some of these conversations and how they are different from the things we might see on social media. And I'm also thinking about what it would be like for these albums to come out today, right? And thinking like, would they have even felt empowered to be as transparent and vulnerable as they were, given you know, how people would react maybe online, like, what are your thoughts around could we get a who is Jill Scott or Mama's Gun today?
- [43:16]
Taryn Findley
I want to be so optimistic, Joy. Dr. Joy. I want to be so optimistic, but I don't know. I don't think so. Especially when we consider where the music industry is going and how numbers dominated and numbers driven things have become come. Unfortunately, we're getting albums that are so rich in the messages they tell and even the talent that newer neo soul artists bring. But unfortunately I don't think they are rising to meet the expectations of music execs. Unfortunately, because they don't have the TikTok numbers or because they may not appeal, quote unquote, to what they think audiences want aesthetically or sonically. Like, I think about Ari Lennox and I love her so much. Like I think that she is one of the most amazing newer neo soul artists that we have today. And Shea Butter Baby was so amazing. It was such a great album. But the deal that she was in with Dreamville was not serving her artistry in the way that I think that she needed and wanted it to. And fortunately she just got out of that and so hopefully she'll be able to create more of the music that is of her heart and what she really wants because she's aligned with Solange now. But again, we're still hearing a lot of the influence and a lot of the inspiration via artists like Anderson Paak. Even Beyonce has sampled and interpolated songs from both of these albums, but unfortunately I don't know if the industry as a business really appreciates what these albums would be able to do if they were released today.
- [45:31]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So you mentioned Ari Lennox and she is definitely somebody I think about when I think about the legacy of Erykah Badu and Jill Scott, who are some other artists that you think about when you think about people continuing to walk in these footsteps.
- [45:45]
Taryn Findley
Oh my goodness. I don't know if you've heard of Rae Khalil. She is an amazing up and coming artist. She's currently actually on tour with Anderson Paak and she sings and raps and feels so Erykah Badu coded. It's so beautiful and refreshing to see. I believe she's a queer woman as well. And to hear her seeing about so many of these themes that we've mentioned on both of these albums from her perspective as a black queer woman is so refreshing and something that I think we need more of and we need to hear more of and I really want her to win so badly. I think she skews a little bit more pop, but her, and I say she skews a little bit more pop right now because I think she's being pushed in that direction a bit more, as we've unfortunately been seeing with a lot of neo soul artists. But her debut album was amazing and it felt like it spoke to so many of these themes that we were talking about in a more airy way than an earthy way. And I think the different levels of Neo soul, where we're seeing more artists play with, which is really amazing.
- [47:17]
Commercial Announcer
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- [47:26]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [48:31]
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- [49:21]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
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- [50:28]
Taryn Findley
Who are you listening to? Dr. Joy?
- [50:31]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about Alex Isley, but I feel like, I mean, she's an Isley, so I feel like she is a very, like, pure R B, like, crooner to me. But it feels like she could kind of maybe play in this neo soul kind of space.
- [50:50]
Taryn Findley
Yeah, yeah. And I think, like, I think that's also like, the beautiful thing of it, especially today, is we are seeing more artists kind of genre blend and bend and play in different directions, and maybe they're stronger and. Or you like one portion of their sound more than others. And which is okay because we can pick and choose. And that's the beauty of. Of streaming. It has a lot of. It has a lot of pitfalls. At least we have the power of choice.
- [51:24]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So, Taryn, as we wrap up, you know, I definitely want to get some kind of quick ideas from you about, you know, for people who maybe are just now being introduced to Mama's Gun and who is Jill Scott? Where would you suggest they start on each of these albums?
- [51:39]
Taryn Findley
From the top. But if. Definitely start from the top. But if I. Okay, okay. I'm gonna start with who is Jill Scott? And I would say my favorite. I'm going to give them my favorite of what moves me. Dr. Joy, this is hard. I'm going to again say slowly, surely, for who is Jill Scott? Because I think that it's such an affirming and just, sure, self assured, for lack of a better term, way to say I'm not doing this. And I don't think that that has to be exclusive to romantic relationships. I think that that can be for friendships. I think that could be for relationships with job or whatever your work is. Or, you know, it's. It's such an amazing song because it draws a boundary in the sand and in such a definitive way that I have to, like, I have to give that to anyone, especially the younger Kids because I know they like shorter songs and it's a shorter song. So I'm like, I'm going to respect your attention span. Start there. And then from Mama's Gun, oh my God. Orange Moon, Orange Moon. I have to say Orange moon. It's so beautiful. I feel like it makes me cry a lot. Because you could take it several ways of her talking about like love with her partner, but also it could be love with herself and you know how she shines brighter when she sees herself because the sun is herself or the mirror. And relationships are mirrors anyway for. For ourselves. But like to. To hear love from the perspective of how it makes you better and how it makes you see yourself better and in a different light is so beautiful to me. So I think that like both of these tracks could of course relate to so many things, but I think the again, self centeredness of it all, which so many of us black women need more of, is a one.
- [54:31]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
I love those and I love that my answers are very different, but not that different.
- [54:35]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [54:36]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
So from Mama's Gun I would have to choose Bag Lady.
- [54:40]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Right.
- [54:40]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Like I feel like that was the Cranes in the sky before we got Cranes in the Sky.
- [54:44]
Taryn Findley
Right.
- [54:45]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Like the very first song that was really talking, I think about boundaries without calling them that. Right. And thinking about to how we can be more self centered and how to pay attention to what we're carrying. So it would have to be that. And then for who is Jill Scott? I think it would be the way because that probably is one of the most beautiful songs still ever to have been created. So I just love that song.
- [55:06]
Taryn Findley
I love that I wanted to give some deep cuts for the people because I'm like, I want them to go.
- [55:11]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Listen to the other.
- [55:12]
Taryn Findley
I know how y' all like to avoid deep cuts. So I'm like. But I love, I love that you gave those two because I'm like, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
- [55:22]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Yeah. So when you think about like the next 25 years of R and B and Neil, so what do you think we have to look forward to? Especially as we think about the foundation that has been laid by these women and many others.
- [55:36]
Taryn Findley
I really. Especially now because we know that industry budgets are shrinking and with that we are seeing and I think we're going to hear so many more self starters, so many more people putting their music out there. I mean we already had so much of that and are continuing to have so much of that with SoundCloud, YouTube, TikTok, just different platforms where we can find newer artists. And I think A lot of these artists, these newer artists are walking in the steps of Neo Soul. And what's interesting is what I've been seeing is that like, it doesn't matter, like whether you're black or not, like Neo soul is inspiring so many different people of different races and backgrounds. And that just speaks to the value and longevity of black music, of the music and the culture that we make. And I think that's something that we're going to continue to see. I think we're going to continue to see artists pay homage to these albums and sample these albums and tap the these artists for their songs. I think about Erykah Badu, she's. She stays on a younger artist album. She has a really great song, a couple of great songs with drm. And I think that we're going to see more of that, more of the younger generations tapping directly into these artists to not only sample but also lend their voices and ears to them. But yeah, I think that in 25 years, we are going to be having the same conversation about Solange's albums and about Ari Lennox albums and so many of these artists who they're well established, of course, that are of younger generations who are slowly but surely getting their flowers from us.
- [57:46]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
This has been so much fun to chat with you about this, Taryn. I love the things that you shared about these albums.
- [57:52]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
Can you please remind us where can we stay connected with you?
- [57:54]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
What is your website, your substack and your social media handles?
- [57:59]
Taryn Findley
Absolutely. Thank you so much. This has been so fun. Dr. Joy. Y' all can find me at underscore, tearing it up on TikTok, Instagram and that other website that that man has taken over that I probably will be deactivating soon. And you also can find me on substack@letstayconnected.substack.com or on tarynfinli.com and yeah, thank you so much, Dr. Joy.
- [58:32]
Co-host or Guest Moderator
Once again, thank you, Taryn.
- [58:39]
Dr. Joy Hardin Bradford
I'm so glad Taryn was able to join me for this conversation to celebrate the timeless art artistry of Erykah Badu and Jill Scott and to remind us of how their music continues to hold space for black women's softness, sensuality and evolution. To learn more about Taryn and her work, visit the show notes@thristyforblackgirls.com session 433. And don't forget to text this episode to two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions or suggestions for the podcast if you have movies or books you'd like us to review or have thoughts about topics you'd like to hear us discuss, drop us a message at Memo FM therapyforblackgirls and let us know what's on your mind. We might just feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory. Don't forget to follow us on Instagram Therapy for Black Girls and come on over and join us in our Patreon for more exclusive updates and behind the scenes content. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank y' all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon. Take good care of Many of us play lots of different roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. And many of us also think about another role that could take our life where we want it to be. Degree Holder that's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your hectic life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, NU makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. Learn more today at nu.edu. these days, most things cost an arm and a leg, especially vacations. But not in Rhode Island. Between affordable luxury stays, succulent seafood right from the source, and spectacular shopping that won't break the bank, you get a real bang for your buck in the Ocean State. The memories will be priceless, but the cost will be a lot less. Rhode island all that, Plan your trip today@visitroadisland.com that's Visit Rhode Island.com this episode of Therapy for Black Girls is brought to you by Chase Sapphire Reserve. Whether you are booking your next trip or a weekend escape, Chase Sapphire Reserve is your gateway to the world's most captivating destinations. When you use your Chase Sapphire Reserve card, you get eight times points on all purchases made through Chase Travel and even access to one of a kind experiences like music festivals and sports events. And that's not even mentioning how the card gets you into the Sapphire Lounge, by the club and at select airports nationwide. Travel is more rewarding with Chase Sapphire Reserve. Trust me. Discover more@chase.com Sapphire Reserve cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank, NA Member FDIC. Subject to credit approval terms apply.
- [61:50]
Taryn Findley
This is an iHeart podcast.