Podcast Summary: Therapy for Black Girls – Session 437: Cookies, Healing, & Legacy with Sarah and Rev. Shawn Amos

Episode Theme
In this heartfelt episode, Dr. Joy Harden Bradford sits down with siblings Sarah Amos and Reverend Shawn Amos to explore sibling bonds, family legacy, and the healing power of honest conversations. Drawing on their experiences as children of Wally "Famous" Amos, the duo discusses how creativity, grief, and their unique family history have shaped their identities and relationships. The episode is part of the "Sibling Sit Down" series, offering a deep dive into themes of connection, caregiving, and intergenerational change.

1. Introduction & Guest Backgrounds (04:50–06:12)

• Sarah Amos introduces herself as the host of Tough Cookie: The Wally Famous Amos Story, a new podcast about their father. Sarah is a journalist, producer, and the youngest child from Wally Amos’s third marriage.
• Rev. Shawn Amos is Sarah’s older brother, a blues musician known as "The Reverend Shawn Amos." He talks about being the youngest son of Wally Amos from a different marriage, highlighting their family’s complex structure.

Quote:
“Sometimes I feel like I’m her sister; I have a strong feminine side…I am Sarah’s older brother Shawn. People call me Rev.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (05:34)

2. Childhood Dynamics & Evolving Sibling Relationships (06:13–12:29)

• Sarah discusses being 15 years younger than Shawn, growing up as an only child in Hawaii, and how Shawn was more of a recurring character rather than a constant presence in her early life.
• Shawn shares his excitement to be a big brother despite familial disruptions and the importance he placed on not disappearing from Sarah’s life.
• The siblings describe becoming closer when Sarah moved to Los Angeles for college, intentionally prioritizing their relationship amidst busy lives and starting families.

Memorable Moment:
“When he would come to town, he would always bring a new girlfriend…I have these memories of when he would come to town, he would really be there, and he called a bit more than the other brothers.” – Sarah Amos (10:00)

3. Intentional Connection & the Role of Work (13:30–18:51)

• Both siblings highlight their intentionality in staying close, while also acknowledging periods of distance caused by moves and family upheavals.
• Work emerged as their main connector, serving both as a shared passion and at times, a buffer for deeper emotional conversations.
• The process of making Sarah’s podcast and their father’s death forced them to have overdue honest conversations, leading to significant healing and closeness.

Notable Exchange:
“I think a lot of things and conversations that we as a family should have had over the last several years, we had during the making of this podcast.” – Sarah Amos (15:29)
“Her podcast has absolutely been a gift and a major vehicle for a lot of healing, not only between us, but within the whole family.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (18:42)

4. Navigating Caregiving & Family Roles (23:04–30:40)

• Dr. Joy explores how the siblings navigated caregiving for their father, particularly as he battled dementia.
• Shawn points to Sarah’s role as the "dutiful daughter" and his own motivation to be present as a supportive big brother.
• Sarah reflects on the emotional complexity of caregiving, the performative aspects of being the "good child," and the societal lack of resources for those supporting aging parents.

Notable Quote:
“If there isn’t real intention and meaning and emotional connection behind it, then it is also to some degree performative.” – Sarah Amos (25:42)

Key Insight:
“Any unresolved baggage you got with your parent will come back to bite you in the ass when they’re towards the end of their lives.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (29:19)

5. Family Healing, Honest Conversations, and Building Legacy (30:40–46:35)

• The siblings discuss the transformative post-loss conversations and the ongoing process of learning to be a cohesive family after growing up in fragmented households.
• They reflect on the impact of their father’s work-focused legacy, both acknowledging inherited workaholism, its double-edged sword, and striving for personal growth.

Memorable Exchange:
“There’s a great moment in her podcast when her husband Greg talks about Sarah always being on her phone at events…And Sarah…realizing this in real time…Mine wasn’t recorded for a podcast, it’s a safe space, man.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (34:40)

Sarah's Self-Realization:
“It is one of the things I am most grateful for in the podcast…how much I was turning into my father without me even realizing it.” – Sarah Amos (36:20)

6. Having Tough Conversations – and the Power of Laughter (41:48–46:35)

• Sarah explains the family’s willingness to bare their truths for the podcast, crediting her siblings’ openness and emphasizing that the process cemented not only their father’s legacy but their own healing.
• Shawn cautions against stereotypes of "tell-all" media, stressing their story is about healing and understanding, not blame.
• Both emphasize the importance of family humor and resilience, with Sarah describing the family’s gift for moving between tears and laughter.

Shawn on Legacy:
“It’s such a tribute to our father that, like, none of his sins are so great that we don’t all want to be standing together and saying what an amazing dude he was and that he had his challenges like we all do.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (44:12)

7. Therapy: Past, Present, and Future (46:54–49:34)

• Dr. Joy invites discussion about therapy’s role in their lives.
• Sarah shares she’s finally started therapy (with encouragement from her husband and her 9-year-old daughter’s unimpressed, “Good for you—I’ve already been seeing one” reaction).
• Shawn describes his longstanding therapy journey, calling it “the essential glue.”

Quote:
“I am finally going to therapy…It was just my workaholic nature was like, I know what’s wrong with me, I don’t need someone to fix it…Now I recognize that like, that may not be healthy.” – Sarah Amos (47:05, 48:20)
“When you’ve got a father like mine and a mother like mine, therapy is the first, second, and last destination.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (49:13)

8. Creating New Family Traditions & Cousin Connections (49:34–54:01)

• The siblings are highly intentional about fostering strong relationships between their children, correcting patterns of fragmentation from their own upbringing.
• They share family discoveries, such as learning about Gambian heritage through podcast interviews with cousins long estranged.
• The recent passing of their father becomes the catalyst for renewed family ties and pride in their shared history.

Memorable Moment:
“Can we retrain ourselves to believe that we are more powerful together?... We pull all those broken pieces together and create this one strong family.” – Rev. Shawn Amos (53:31)

9. Resources & Final Thoughts

• Where to Find the Podcast and Music:

  • Tough Cookie: The Wally Famous Amos Story — Available on all podcast platforms (54:18)
  • Rev. Shawn Amos’s music — Available on all music platforms and at shawnamos.com (54:51)

• Sarah’s closing reflection:
  “It is a mix of tears and laughter in a way that…is what I love about the Amos family. We can all cry one moment and bust out laughing the next. And that is what I think a great family is.” – Sarah Amos (45:40)

Key Takeaways

• Healing often happens in unexpected spaces: The Amos family found healing through the recording studio, where open dialogue was easier than in private.
• Caregiving is as much emotional as practical: Unresolved parental issues can affect how family members show up during critical caregiving moments.
• Legacy is both inherited and created: Recognizing patterns—like workaholism—can be the first step in choosing a healthier path for future generations.
• Black families and resilience: The Amos siblings’ story illustrates not just challenges but also remarkable adaptability, pride, and capacity for joy and togetherness.
• Therapy and vulnerability: Both siblings endorse therapy as a powerful support for growth, mental health, and family evolution.

Timestamps of Key Segments

• Guest Introductions & Family Background: 04:50–06:12
• Sibling Dynamic and Childhood Reflections: 06:13–12:29
• Staying Close & The Role of Work: 13:30–18:51
• Caregiving Challenges and Lessons: 23:04–30:40
• Healing, Honest Conversations, and Family Growth: 30:40–46:35
• Therapy, Humor, and Resilience: 46:54–49:34
• Cousin Relationships & Renewed Family Bonds: 49:34–54:01

This episode is an honest and inspiring depiction of how siblings can become each other’s anchors through intentional connection, confronting the past, and daring to build a future that honors both family pain and joy.