Sponsor Voice (3:20)

A crucial way to protect your identity.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (3:22)

And take control of your digital footprint. Here to talk with us today is Camille Stewart Gloucester, an attorney and strategist working at the intersection of technology, cybersecurity, national security, and foreign policy. Camille has advised top leaders in both government and policy and major companies like Google in cybersecurity practices. And I'm excited to have her with us today to talk about how we.

Sponsor Voice (3:48)

Can begin to protect ourselves from the.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (3:50)

Risks that come with existing in digital spaces. If something resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share it with us on social media using the hashtag tvginsession or join us over in our Patreon to talk more about the episode. You can join us at community.therapyforblackgirls.com here's our conversation.

Co-host or Interviewer (4:20)

Thank you so much for joining us today, Camille.

Camille Stewart Gloster (4:22)

I am so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (4:25)

So we're very excited to chat with.

Co-host or Interviewer (4:26)

You about a topic that I think is on a lot of people's minds in terms of our digital footprint. So the January Jumpstart series is really all about like a metamorphosis and becoming the next version of yourself. And as someone who has been online.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (4:41)

For some time, how do you think.

Co-host or Interviewer (4:43)

About your own digital presence and do you feel like the story that it's telling is a story that you still want to tell?

Camille Stewart Gloster (4:50)

Yes, I am very thoughtful about how I show up online, particularly once I became a parent, it changed my entire outlook. So to begin with, I've always been very intentional. I've worked in cybersecurity my entire career and often cybersecurity professionals are not very public facing. But I want to change the face of cybersecurity. I want to make these issues dinner table conversation. Quite frankly, I feel like we alienate people by having cybersecurity conversations at this super technical or theoretic level that people feel alienated from. And so I've made it kind of my mission to empower people in and through technology, whether that's getting folks into cybersecurity or tech in general or just having them be a bit more intentional about how they navigate the space. And so I try to lead by example. I'm thoughtful about whether something is public or private and what I say. And particularly as things change with AI, folks need to be really thoughtful about how they show up.

Co-host or Interviewer (5:49)

So what Was it about becoming a parent that you felt made you rethink how you showed up online?

Camille Stewart Gloster (5:55)

We're lucky because when we came online, there was kind of a moment of realization. I was in college, late college, when Facebook came out and you knew that people might see what you posted and you had some air of privacy about you. And I've watched subsequent generations, particularly ones that are on technology from the day they're born, really be exposed, whether by choice or by force, by their parents. And the consequences of that, having been at a social media company and looking at it through this big tech lens, whether I was at Google or even thinking about it from a public policy perspective, from a national security perspective, and then just that individual security perspective. And one of the things I appreciated about my journey navigating technology is I got to make choices. If there were mistakes, they were my mistakes to have made. And I was able to make them at a point where I was informed enough and able to do the learning to decide how I wanted to show up. And we've taken that decision away from our children. In large part, we are putting them online before they even understand what that means. And many of them wake up 15 years later, 20 years later, and don't love the kind of exposure that they've had. So I want to gift that to my child. But also there are some real security and privacy concerns inherent in making your child very public in the ways that are happening right now. It's no longer, you know, just sharing on Facebook. That's just you and your family, friends, or you and your cousins. It is wide reaching. And with AI, putting an emoji over their face doesn't even help. So I want to be intentional about giving her the safety and security she deserves, but also gifting her the ability to choose how she shows up.

Co-host or Interviewer (7:42)

Yeah, so you mentioned that you've been in lots of very cool places, some that require very tight levels of security. So you've been in the highest forms of government. You mentioned that you worked with Google. How have you been intentional about cultivating your digital presence? And what have you learned from working in those kinds of spaces that you think is also important for, like, the general community to know?

Camille Stewart Gloster (8:01)

Be intentional, be thoughtful, take the time to think about what you want to say about yourself and who you are? I often hear people talk about it as like, your personal brand. That's fine. Your personal brand, your professional brand, however you want to think about it. What are you saying? With every account that you set up, does it tell a cohesive story about who you are in the appropriate context. We're moving to a world where we'll have AI browsers really soon. And I think a lot of people are really excited by that. And it's a really cool invention. But if you think about what that means for how people search the Internet, you're no longer putting in a search and getting a list of results. You will get a curated narrative about yourself. So as you think about how you show up online, that should be the frame through which you think about it. If someone else were curating who you are, if they are to pull from all the available sources and tell a story about you, what story is that? And so as I engage with every platform and choose whether it is a personal engagement, so just for a closed network of people or a professional one, I make sure that it aligns with me, my values, the things that I want to say publicly, and ensure that I'm willing to stand behind anything that I post.

Co-host or Interviewer (9:12)

Yeah. So a very good reminder for folks to kind of think twice about. About what you're saying. Right.

Camille Stewart Gloster (9:17)

It never goes away.

Co-host or Interviewer (9:18)

Yeah.

Sponsor Voice (9:19)

Yeah.

Co-host or Interviewer (9:19)

And I definitely want to hear more about the AI browser. So we've started some conversations here on the podcast around AI and what to be on the lookout for, how it impacts our communities. But it feels like every time we have a conversation, like, there's thousands of new things that we didn't even know since the last conversation. So this is the first time I'm hearing AI browser. So I definitely want to get into that with. But I also want to talk about, you know, like, I think that there is far more online about each of us than many of us even recognize. So can you talk about, like, what the general, average person's digital footprint actually looks like?

Camille Stewart Gloster (9:54)

That's a great question. So your digital footprint is likely all of your social media, and it is a culmination of data you've inputted into a bunch of random sites. I don't know if you've ever googled your name, but you should if you have not. And what you'll likely see is maybe a website, if you have one, some post from college or from high school where they're talking about an accomplishment or an achievement. Anywhere you've ever been featured on the Internet where someone else mentioned you. Some of that might be curated, and some of that might be an ancillary message, but it creates kind of a story about you. But there's also a bunch of data from weather, data leaks, or from sites with poor or malicious intent that kind of aggregating your data. So you've probably seen those like online directories that pull together your address and your email and your phone number and then try to connect you to your cousin and your mom. And those are directories that we all probably hate. You're like, oh man, how did they get my address? And that is probably from some random something or from some data leak. There are tools that can help you clean that up. Those things are unfortunately unavoidable. You'll find them about every person. But there are tools like Delete Me and Canary with a K that can help you scrape the Internet for email, Social Security number, phone number, any sensitive data about you that you do not want to appear on these websites and does the work to help you get them pulled down. And that's something I recommend for everyone. In a world where people get canceled and when people's attention is turned on you, it could mean getting doxed, which means people flooding you or swatted, having a SWAT team show up at your house. What you want to be able to do is protect your physical space as much as you're protecting your digital space. And so using sites like that to kind of clean up your footprint. The things that go beyond your ability to control, like you didn't put them up there, you should retake that control and get that content down. So that's what your digital footprint looks like. The stuff that you intentionally put up there, like social media, your wedding website, all the random things, and then a bevy of aggregated data from random sites and random breaches that tell a story about you. Sometimes correct and sometimes incorrect. More from our conversation after the break.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (12:32)

Today, I wanted to share some thoughts.

Sponsor Voice (12:33)

About investing in your future while showing up for your present needs. Most of us play a lot of roles in life. Partner, employee, caregiver. But many of us also think about another role that could take our life to where we want it to. Degree holder. That's where National University comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work earning a degree into your busy life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, four and eight week courses, monthly class starts, and year round enrollment, NU is an accredited nonprofit university that makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. With over 150 different degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals too. Learn more today at nu.edu.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (13:33)

Ever been at the pharmacy counter, and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank. That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jay Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures, just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

Co-host or Interviewer (14:29)

So, Camille, you know, I know occasionally I will get an email or like an actual physical letter from some company, maybe like an insurance company or something. And like they actually inform you, like, hey, there was this breach.

Camille Stewart Gloster (14:40)

Yes.

Co-host or Interviewer (14:41)

You know, and you get maybe three months of like data protection or something. But it doesn't feel like every company does that.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (14:47)

Right.

Co-host or Interviewer (14:48)

Like, are there instances where your data may have been leaked and you didn't even know about it?

Camille Stewart Gloster (14:53)

Oh, yes, because how they choose to notify you depends on some legal requirements that are not consistently applied. They're very different by state, by country, all of those things. But also a lot of it's kind of voluntary. Responsible actors, companies that really want to do right by their users will make sure that they understand, will provide some kind of resources to help scrape that data. But many, many don't. So you'll hear about it in a news report or you won't hear about it at all, depending on scale and scope. So that's why you have to be on the lookout for your regular activity on your bank accounts, your name popping up. I actually recommend that everyone set up a Google alert or there's a site called Talk Walker that you can set up an alert about yourself. Just you kind of see what's flooding the Internet with your name, maybe your business name, your address, anything like that. So you can see as those things start to pop up online and do something to take it down.

Co-host or Interviewer (15:50)

Unfortunately, I feel like there have been several cases of like, high profile and maybe some not even so high profile black women specifically, who have gotten docs right because of maybe something they shared online or maybe activist activity. Can you talk about why it's even more important for black women, beyond privacy concerns, to be Mindful of their digital footprint.

Camille Stewart Gloster (16:11)

Yeah, we are in a divisive time where our comments are weaponized against us, where dei, diversity, equity, inclusion. I actually like to say it to make people actually claim what the words are is being vilified and denied. And people are using that to push hate. And what often happens is the loudest voices in the room pushing conversations of equity and equality or the most marginalized groups often feel the brunt of that. And so what we find is a lot of black women are standing up and speaking out because they feel the brunt of the pain. We saw 600,000 black women have been laid off in recent months. We've seen to your point, a number of attacks on political figures. That kind of targeting is endemic to the kind of natural leadership roles black women tend to take on, particularly in the pursuit of equity and human rights. It's far reaching. That might be equity in the tech sector, that might be equity in health care. It could be anything. But with the amount of visibility each person gets with social media and with the Internet and with all of the new tools at our disposal, a lot of us become targets when we didn't anticipate. You might think political figures and journalists take that on as part of the job because they're in public scrutiny. But we all have a bit of public scrutiny now, and so we all have the potential to be subject to that. That shouldn't make us silence ourselves, but it should make be intentional about using our levers of power to protect our presence online and the way people get access to us, whether that's digital or physical.

Co-host or Interviewer (17:52)

And you mentioned services that you can sign up for like Delete Me, Canary. Are there other additional layers that you would use? Because those are like after something has happened.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (18:02)

Right.

Co-host or Interviewer (18:02)

Are there things that you can do to be preventative in terms of protecting your data online?

Camille Stewart Gloster (18:07)

Yes. So those are. Those are both proactive and reactive in the sense that you'll find data that's online before somebody apps on it, hopefully. But some really important things are really small behavior changes that might seem like a little bit of an annoyance to add them to your routine, but they're going to make a huge difference. First, turn on multi factor authentication on everything. I'm sure You've seen notifications about 2fa. You've been forced by some apps to do it. That is really important because when someone gets a hold of your password because it was leaked in a data breach, they still can't get into your account because they need to have the other credential to get in. That's like saying I'm not gonna put on a deadbolt on my house because I have a standard issued door handle lock that everybody has like a universal key to. I mean, technically I guess it could keep somebody out, but it's not keeping everybody out. So let's arm ourselves. Update your software. Most of those pushes include some kind of security patch. Use a password manager and stop reusing old passwords from college. Like that one password that's the password to everything has got to go. Because what that means is when they get access to your whatever, they have access to so many things and they're going to test every site that you use to see if that password can be used there as well. The other thing you shouldn't do is authenticate into something with something else. So you'll often see use your Google, use your Facebook to get into this other site. I don't recommend that. It's so easy. But when you do that, you make this kind of connection that we're talking about, particularly if not if it's done without connecting it to multifactor authentication. So if they get into your Google account, they've gotten into all of these other sites and potentially can even lock you out of your Gmail account. Keep your work and personal accounts separate and consider using one of the privacy focused browsers like DuckDuckGo and Block the trackers. I know the cookie requests are a little annoying when you get them, but deny them. The less access you give for them to be tracking you when you're off their site, the better you are going to expose information by virtue of using a site. You're exchanging access for some kind of service, but you don't have to give them more than what they need. The last major one I'll talk about, because we all use our phones so much, is to be thoughtful about the permissions you give each app and review your apps routinely. So for example, in the middle of the pandemic, everybody was using the. There was this app that kind of let you play games together and almost have like a video chat. And it asks for your contacts, it asks for access to like your flashlight, all kinds of random things. Why do you need my contacts for me to initiate a call with a group of friends? You don't really, in most cases. So I denied that. And then I denied access to my flashlight because I don't understand why you need that. And I was thoughtful about each thing that I declined because the app is going to work if you only accept the things you need. Which was camera and audio.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (21:25)

Right?

Camille Stewart Gloster (21:25)

That's all I need to do a video chat. But what we started to see is that your contacts are like a roadmap through your history. Your old boyfriend or girlfriend is in there, your cousins are in there, your parents are in there. You think that's not a lot of data about you, but that is a huge amount of data. Particularly when you think about that next to all those sites that are trying to make connections between you and all the people that you know and put all of your data out there, you're giving them so much access to yourself. So just be thoughtful about what you say yes and no to and try the like. Allow access only when I'm in the app or allow once. For some of these apps, small steps can really make a big difference in how much access an app or a potential malicious actor has to you in the future.

Co-host or Interviewer (22:11)

You know, Camille, even as I'm listening to you talk about all these things, I'm starting to feel a little overwhelmed by, like, all of the things that not, not in a bad way, but, like, all of these things are so connected.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (22:22)

Right?

Co-host or Interviewer (22:22)

And I'm thinking, you know, like, even like your newspapers will ask you to connect through, like, your Google account or through your Facebook account. And it's like, surely whoever is in charge of it at these companies know that that's not the safest way. But that's like the past path of least resistance, right, to get you to sign up. But there are all these things that you have to do and really be on top of to. To try to make sure that you're protecting your data, which I think can feel overwhelming. Like, how do I stay on top of this? And so my next question is around, like, the psychological impact of trying to stay on top of data privacy and even just like the digital clutter, like all the pictures we have and all the apps we have. Can you talk about just the impact that has on our mental health and how it impacts us psychologically?

Camille Stewart Gloster (23:05)

I'm so glad you brought that up because I know that people feel overwhelmed by all this, like, conversation about technology. And I want people to see them as small steps that have big impact. Right. Turning on multi factor authentication is going to help. Even if you have used one app to authenticate into a bunch of different things, like, even if you have used your Google or your Facebook to get into a bunch of other apps, if your Google has multifactor authentication and then those apps do too, you've created a bunch of resilience that you didn't have before. So I want people to think that. But in my line of work, I do get to see all of the things that happen. And there is a huge mental toll, not only on practitioners who work in the space, but everyone. What I challenge people to do is think about this as a version of your physical safety. In your physical safety, you trust the police, the fire department to secure your neighborhood, to put out fires, to do the big heavy lifting. And then you take your sphere of influence, your home, and you put on a deadbolt, you turn on an alarm system, you close the windows, you close your garage, you take the precautions you think are necessary to protect yourself. And those two things in concert help create a more safe ecosystem around you. I want people to be intentional about that, and I think that helps relieve the mental load quite a bit. But if you are a person who's very vocal online and you are speaking out against all of the injustices in the world and advocating for marginalized communities and speaking your truth in a world where your truth is often a discreet perspective, you are likely to be thinking about the potential harm that could come from that. Whether it is doxing like we talked about, or getting swatted or just hateful messages online, there is a lot of harm and even just reading the comments. So I recognize that the space can be a harmful manifestation of the best and worst of what we are as people and flood you with that best and worst. Right? It used to be that you'd have to be able to come find me physically to say your negative or positive comments. And so the scale of that was negligible, even though it could still be harmful. Now every troll, every random, can say something to you about the work that you're doing or about your personhood, and they often do make it very personal. And so one of my pieces of advice for people is to really find opportunities to separate yourself and to be in community in a physical sense, disconnect from your device. Also, with a lot of the information that's flooding us these days, I try to do more of a pull than a push, meaning I don't want notifications to flood me all the time about what's happening in the world or what's happening on my post, I'm going to go with intention to kind of pull that information out of the app. Let me find out who's been commenting on my XYZ post. Let me see what's going on in the news. And that kind of behavior really does help to preserve your mental health. One of the things we're seeing is this desire for community. You're seeing it with AI chatbots that have become boyfriends, girlfriends, companions, best friends. And that's really worrisome because their inclination is to reinforce and to promote like a positive perspective on anything you say, even your darkest intentions. And so I also just want to encourage people to remember that technology is just technology. It is not human connection, it is not the source of counseling, it is not your best friend, it's not going to give you real advice, it can be a thought partner, but it is still just a piece of technology that is only as good as the data that's put into it and only as good as the coding that built it. And so those reminders usually are helpful for folks as they put this in context and hopefully stay grounded in their real lives so that the mental health aspects can be mitigated.

Co-host or Interviewer (27:00)

So you mentioned AI several times. I echo your concerns, especially as a, you know, as a psychologist around, you know, some of the suicides we've seen linked to AI, unfortunately. And you know, the ways that people are really using AI to mimic human connection. Can you talk about some of the ways that AI makes this whole conversation around, like data privacy even more nuanced and what we should be paying attention to?

Camille Stewart Gloster (27:26)

Oh yes. I mean, as the newest technological underpinning is fundamentally changing our society. How people connect, where people connect, how people gather information. So I mentioned earlier AI browsers and what that is is your ChatGPT, your Claude, your favorite Gemini being embedded into a browser and kind of those AI overviews you're starting to get now when you do a Google search are the breadth of what you see. When you are searching for something, think of perplexity, but times 10 because it's your whole browser and you'll eventually link back to a website. But what you see first is some curated answer based on how that model reads all of the information about you or about that topic online. That is a real change in how we consume information. It becomes even more important for all of us to be discerners of truth and to understand how to research and to think about information integrity. Who made this? When did they make this? Why did they make this? Can I validate it anywhere else? Is it just one source saying this, one outlet? And so it'll also mean more work from us if we want to be rooted in truth rooted in information that is fact based. And that's a hard dynamic shift and means also on the privacy and security side, some new avenues for people to get access to you, for people to understand who you are, for people to form an opinion about you that might catalyze them to action. So for example, you're doing all of this work and if an AI browser or just an AI model in general provides a synopsis of your work that's not favorable to someone, if they're unwilling to do the work, to figure out exactly your perspective and your point of view, that might make you the subject of ire, the subject of their bad intentions, and then have them act out in accordance. So there's definitely a heightened need to practice these privacy and security behaviors. And I hope folks do see them as small because they will provide a lot of far reaching protection for you. And be thoughtful about how you use AI. AI doesn't have to do everything for you. Don't forget how to read, write and think for yourself. The thing that your job loves the most is your ability to systems think, your deep understanding of your area of expertise and the societal context, the cultural context, all of those things are things AI can't mimic. So don't lose that in the pursuit of leveraging AI to be more efficient or more effective.

Co-host or Interviewer (29:58)

So earlier, Camille, you talked about, even with your little one, like even putting an emoji, which I think is a popular way that parents like will share cute pictures or cute things and they add an emoji. Thinking like that, that's actually protecting, but it sounds like that is not even enough, especially with the advent of AI. Can you say more about that?

Camille Stewart Gloster (30:16)

Yeah, and I'm guilty of this too. At first I was like, oh, maybe I could just put emojis on my baby's face. No, no, no. AI has figured out how to scrub that clean. And now people still have the face of your child. And what you've seen in a lot of unfortunately child sexual abuse material is predators leveraging your photos to create really disgusting imagery. Or they get off on things that you just wouldn't expect. I really hope we're past the place of people posting their kids in the bathtub. But that is a highly searched category on some of these disgusting child pornography sites. But even without that, even if it's just your child on a playground, there's the potential. And don't get me wrong, I recognize the value of community and of sharing your family and all of those things. So I'm not making a judgment call on people who have decided that they do want to put their children on social media. I just actually want people to be intentional about it. What are you posting? What context around your child are you posting? Is that account private? Is it public? How old is that child? There are ways to mitigate the risk. Even if you still want to engage in sharing your child's wins, successes, evolution with the people you trust and hold dear, I completely support that. But there's a real risk out there. And so I hope parents just think intentionally. Actually, we put out a toolkit called at digitalfluency Tech for parents and educators to help them have conversations about technology around AI and to just align their technology use to their values. What you often find in toolkits is like a turn this on, turn this off. And this is more of a how do you make a decision that aligns with your family values? With sleepovers, there are some families that are like, go ahead, you go to whoever's house. And there are some that are like, you are never going to go on a sleepover. And most people fall somewhere in the middle, whether that falls closer to one side or the other. And they do that. They make that choice based on trust, based on their values, based on a whole host of factors. You can do that with your tech use too. Does my child get to dive right in and use everything or do they use nothing? It's probably not either of the two. It's probably somewhere in the middle and it'll probably move based on their age. And I think that's the way that we should all be thinking about it. Just a little intentionality would provide a lot of protection for us and our families. More from our conversation after the break.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (32:43)

Today, I wanted to share some thoughts.

Sponsor Voice (32:45)

About investing in your future while showing up for your present needs.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (32:49)

Most of us play a lot of.

Sponsor Voice (32:50)

Roles in life partner, employee, caregiver. But many of us also think about another role that could take our lives to where we want it to be. Degree holder. That's where a national university comes in. They've been busy since 1971 creating more ways for you to work. Earning a degree in into your busy life. NU confers more graduate degrees to diverse populations than any other institution in the country, with more than half being earned by women. With flexible online formats, four and eight week courses, monthly class starts, and year round enrollment, NU is an accredited nonprofit university that makes higher education possible and achievable for busy working adults. With over 150 different degrees, credentials and certificates to choose from, they have a program that fits your career goals too. Learn more today at nu.edu.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (33:44)

Ever been at the pharmacy counter and the pharmacist asks, do you have any questions? And suddenly your mind goes blank? That's exactly why you need to listen to beyond the Script from CVS Pharmacy and iHeartMedia. Starting January 14th. Hosted by Dr. Jay Goodman, this podcast brings you real conversations with CVS pharmacists, the health experts you see most answering the questions you wish you'd asked, like which medications might not mix well, what vaccines you should consider before a big trip, and even those questions you were too embarrassed to say out loud. Each episode busts myths, decodes health trends, and gives you practical, trustworthy advice straight from the people behind the counter. No white coats, no lectures. Just real talk, real answers, and maybe a few laughs. Listen to beyond the script on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Sponsor Voice (34:39)

So I think when a lot of.

Co-host or Interviewer (34:40)

Us think about like, okay, I want to take some steps to clean up my digital footprint, we often start with social media and I'd love for you to talk through like the the distinction between deleting and like deactivating yourself on social media sites. Are those the same thing? And what happens to your data? Let's say if you do delete your account?

Camille Stewart Gloster (35:01)

So it depends on the site. They usually tell you in their privacy policy if deleting means that they will actually delete the data that they are holding about your profile. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. You disabling your account does not mean deleting. They are two separate actions, so you've got to do both if that's what your goal is. You know, there's a third category I would say, and that's just kind of making it really private and being thoughtful about who you let view your account and like who you let into your circle. I think that's probably where most people can and should fall. I think deleting your social media account is a great opportunity to leverage your buying power to speak to your values. So for example, you'll see a lot of people jump off of Instagram and Facebook because they feel like the way Meta has evolved doesn't align with their values. And I'm sure you'll start to see that in the AI space as well. Now that can be tough because everybody's on Instagram or everybody's on TikTok. It's kind of tough to not be in the mix. And so then how do you moderate your behavior accordingly? But I do think that contemplating deleting or disconnecting, even if it's just for a temporary detox, is a tool at your disposal to think about how you are speaking to these companies about what it is that you value and how you'd like them to show up in your life.

Co-host or Interviewer (36:27)

You know, Camille, I think that there's often this pressure and tension that exists, especially for black women who are entrepreneurs and creatives. So much of visibility is tied to, like, your next gig or partnerships or speaking engagements.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (36:42)

Right.

Co-host or Interviewer (36:42)

How do you balance the. The need for privacy and protecting your mental health with the very real benefits that often come with being visible online?

Camille Stewart Gloster (36:51)

Yeah, that is about being intentional with what you are doing. If your professional Persona or your professional pursuits require of you to be visible, do that and do that well. But that doesn't mean that you have to film in your home or talk about your home life or talk about where you went on vacation. There can be boundaries. And so my recommendation to people is not to stay offline. As you see, can see, I'm online. I think it is a great opportunity for connection, to get business to meet new communities, to understand how the things that you're passionate about align to other issues that are important in the moment, just for entertainment and recreation. And so there are a number of reasons to engage online. Do that thoughtfully. If it is about business only or business accounts, keep it business. If you are creating a professional personal Persona kind of this, like, hybrid, what are the boundaries on that? Is it that your family isn't a part of the content? Is it that your child isn't a part or children aren't a part of the content? Is that you want to protect your family, your parents? Really be thoughtful about what those boundaries are and then go for it. But just know also what you've put out there and then react accordingly. So, for example, if you decide that you've got this business, personal hybrid Persona that you want out in the world because a big part of your professional pursuits is your personal professional brand, the information you share as part of that should not become your password. You know, that shouldn't. That shouldn't connect back to the ways that you seek to protect yourself and your family. So just be thoughtful about those things and you should be fine.

Co-host or Interviewer (38:32)

You know, Camille, I feel like being online, there are so many things I learned that I just never would have thought about. You know, like seeing people on Tik Tok, unfortunately, be able to guess somebody's location based on, like, the angle the sun comes into their living room or, oh, I stayed at this hotel and now I see someone else. And then, like, sharing that information in the comment section. Right. Like, I think that there's just so much of that happening that, you know, Sometimes I think happens mindlessly, but it does impact our safety. Are there other things that you'd like.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (39:02)

To call attention to in terms of.

Co-host or Interviewer (39:04)

Digital privacy or cybersecurity that we haven't touched on that you think are important for people to know?

Camille Stewart Gloster (39:10)

I would just say complimenting that nothing is foolproof and the technology and the circumstances change all the time. Like I said, I thought putting an emoji over your child's face might be okay for a time and then realized it wasn't. So you adapt. But if you complement that with some of those security behaviors that I talked about, like using two FA and having a really good password manager, updating your software, you'll build in a lot of protection for you and your family if you find yourself the subject of some kind of online abuse or harassment. There's a good book called how to Be a Woman Surviving Abuse and Harassment and how to Fight Back by Nina Jankowicz. There are also a number of folks online that talk about these issues all day. You don't have to do the heavy lifting. Let me and other people look at the privacy policies for websites, look at the trends, and highlight for you areas where you should or shouldn't start to engage. Also, reject the instinct to be a first adopter. I don't know how many of you have heard about Mattel embedding AI into some of their toys. They've been thinking about that. Please do not give your child an AI model without having understood exactly what information it's going to collect and what it's going to do for the child, how it's going to affect their learning. You don't have to be a first adopter on these, these things. I would say your best bet actually is to let it roll out, see how people use it, see where some of the harms pop up, and then adjust your use accordingly. That'll really help you as you navigate this space and just stay connected. Just be thoughtful and adapt your behavior as things come up.

Co-host or Interviewer (40:51)

I was not aware that Mattel was embedding AI and toys. That is new news to me, but it does bring up a great question. You've already mentioned your daughter. I also have some two sons I'm thinking about. This is a whole new thing now I have to talk about with the kids. Right? The schools are already talking about AI. They're using it.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (41:10)

What kinds of things do you think.

Co-host or Interviewer (41:11)

As parents and caregivers are important to talk to our kids about in terms of AI and the way that it's evolving in our, in our Society first.

Camille Stewart Gloster (41:19)

And foremost is to have conversations about it. This should be a dinner table conversation. Talking about the latest tools, talking about your fears and concerns, talking about how you're navigating it. Talk to your child about, oh, I use this chatbot for a title for my article, but I won't use it to write the article. And here's why. Talk to them about the kinds of information they get and how reliable or not reliable it is. The limitations. That conversation piece goes a long, long way. Your kids are creating their values and their boundaries based on what they hear from you. And your candor about your fears, your concerns, and you figuring it out is going to be a big part of them wrestling with and understanding this, that inclination to be skeptical about a technology, skeptical about when you get a random email. Continue to reinforce that with your children. Tell them to lean into that. Those instincts about things that are genuine versus not will be a skill that they need long term. But don't keep them away from technology. Moderate it based on their age. I actually wrote a series about this where we talked about by age group, what are some of the things that you should be thinking about? What are some of the tools at your disposal, some of the resources that explain well what your child's capacity is. Because the goal is to both make them digitally resilient and savvy and able to navigate the latest technology, because that will be an increasing part of their future, particularly as they transition to being workers and employees and thinking about their future. But they also need to recognize that there is a world of human connection and anchoring their use and the things that the values and the connections and dynamics that they hold dear. And that's a tough balance if you're not having constant conversation. So as you think about your children, thinking clearly about what the limit should be on how much tv, on how much they use the computer, what apps, where are the places where you should be imposing a limit, and how are you checking in to make sure that you're understanding how these tools evolve? You're going to have to be a little bit active on that, just like you would be on where they're going to go after school or who they're interacting with in real life. This is going to take our active engagement as parents because we'll be learning as they're learning. But our lived experience around how harm can manifest itself and how much access people should and shouldn't have to your kids based on their age is going to be integral to them figuring this out to you, both figuring it out.

Co-host or Interviewer (43:53)

This has been so helpful Camille. Thank you so much for sharing all this information with us.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (43:57)

Where can we stay connected with you?

Co-host or Interviewer (43:59)

What is your website as well as any social media channels you'd like to share?

Camille Stewart Gloster (44:02)

Yes, you can find me@camillestewartgloster.com you can also find me at Amillesq on Instagram and I also have a substack called Command Line with Camille. That's where you'll find the articles I talked about with age appropriate like alignment on technology use. You'll find articles about the changing AI ecosystem and cybersecurity. And that is substack.com camillesq that's usually where you can find me most places and I look forward to connecting with you all. Let me do the heavy lifting on what's changing when and how and how you secure yourself and then you do the light work of implementing it.

Sponsor Voice (44:45)

Perfect.

Co-host or Interviewer (44:45)

We'll be sure to include all of that in the show notes. Thank you so much for spending some.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (44:49)

Time with us today.

Co-host or Interviewer (44:49)

I appreciate it.

Camille Stewart Gloster (44:50)

My pleasure. Thank you for having me.

Sponsor Voice (44:56)

I'm so happy Camille was able to.

Podcast Host (Dr. Joy Harden Bradford) (44:58)

Join us for today's episode. To learn more about her and the work that she's doing, be sure to visit the show notes at therapy for black girls.com session 445. And don't forget to text two of your girls right now and tell them to check out the episode. Did you know that you could leave us a voicemail with your questions and suggestions for the podcast? If you have books you think we should read or movies we should watch or topics you think we should discuss, drop us a message at Memo FM Therapy for Black Girls and let us know what's on your mind. We just might feature it on the podcast. If you're looking for a therapist in your area, visit our therapist directory@therapyforblackgirls.com directory don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Therapy for Black Girls and come on over and join us in our Patreon Community for exclusive updates, behind the scenes content and much more. You can join us at community.therapy for black girls.com this episode was produced by Elise Ellis, Inde Chubu and Tyree Rush. Editing was done by Dennison Bradford. Thank you all so much for joining me again this week. I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all real soon.

Camille Stewart Gloster (46:06)

Take a career.