← There Are No Girls on the Internet
There Are No Girls on the Internet
BAFTAs racial slur; Nicki Minaj bot network; TikTok “Psychic” faces Defamation trial for University of Idaho murders – NEWS ROUNDUP!
01:16:40
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- [00:00]
Malcolm Glabel
Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.
- [00:12]
T Mobile Business Representative
Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes.
- [00:37]
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- [01:10]
Matt Rogers
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [01:12]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Los Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [01:15]
Matt Rogers
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Bowen Yang
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Brittany Stewart
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Bowen Yang
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Bowen Yang
And finally, what if your WI fi was like, the smartest WI fi?
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Bowen Yang
Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.
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Matt Rogers
Xfinity. Imagine that.
- [01:52]
Bridget Todd
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Mike
Odoo solves this.
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Bridget Todd
It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales. Odoo is all connected on a single
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Mike
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Bridget Todd
You can save money without missing out on the features. You need to check out. Odoo at O D O o dot com.
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Mike
That's O D O o dot com.
- [02:29]
Bridget Todd
There Are no Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There are no girls on the Internet. I have been so deep into this story out of the BAFTAs. Mike, have you been following us?
- [02:49]
Mike
I admit that I was not until you brought it to my attention. And then it's been like a pretty steady stream of updates from you. And the baftas are not something that I've ever paid attention to in the past. But this story, like, it has gotten to me. And so, yeah, I am now following this pretty closely.
- [03:12]
Bridget Todd
I feel you're underselling how much I have been updating you on a story that you were like, I didn't see it. I'm not really familiar with what you're talking about. I just came back from On Air Festival in New York, which is a podcast conference. And as we, you and I were tech had been texting previously before my flight about the show and the plan for the show while I was traveling. My flight was very early in the morning. I'm in the plane on the tarmac at like 5:30 in the morning and, and right before we take off, I text you BAFTA's update. The President of the BAFTAs is Prince William.
- [03:49]
Mike
Like, how deep does this thing go? At a certain point I just had to like get on board, right? Like the updates were going to keep coming. So yes, I just like got on board. And it's, it's like quite a story.
- [04:02]
Bridget Todd
So for folks who missed it somehow, John Davidson is a Scottish Tourette syndrome activist and the real life inspiration for this movie, I swear, I swear, is this movie that is a fictionalized version of his real life experiences as somebody with Tourette's. He was there at the BAFTAs, which you can sort of think of as like the British Oscars. To celebrate this film, Davidson has a particular type of Tourette's called coprolalia, which involves the involuntary use of obscene or offensive language. A lot of depictions of Tourette's in media focuses on this but specific kind. Even though this symptom only affects 10% to 30% of people with the condition and it's not a criterion for diagnosis. Now importantly, these tics are involuntary. People with this condition are not in control of them. So while the cast of Sinners, Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Johnson were on Stage at the BAFTAs presenting an award, Davidson had one of these uncontrollable tics and screamed out the N word twice. Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Johnson are black. They were there celebrating the film Sinners, which is historic in the way that it has been nominated for awards and really is just A phenomenal piece of black art. So there is video of this happening that was circulating on social media. It's horrible. There's no other way to put it. You can see Michael B. Jordan and Lindo's faces drop, and they're clearly. It's just a. It's just a. A tough moment. Sinner's production designer, Hannah Beachler, a black woman, said the same thing happened to her backstage, but it was not televised. Side note, Google even had to apologize after a news alert about what happened. Actually used the N word. Spelled it out. In the news alert. Google sent out a push notification linking to a Hollywood Reporter article about the situation, which had the headline how the Tourette's fallout unfolded at the BAFTA Film Awards. The alert then invited people to see more on N word, but it spelled out the actual word. So, yeah, no bueno. Not great. Not great.
- [06:17]
Mike
That is pretty wild that that happened. Like, I don't. It's. This is just like a side digression from, like, the main story, but it's like, amazing that Google would do that, you know, like, it's Google. You would think they would have a list of words that they weren't gonna print. It's. It. It's like an interesting story in itself, but it's a side story. So back to the main story.
- [06:41]
Bridget Todd
Yes, The Google thing reminds me of a much lighter and brighter day on social media, which was the day that Yahoo tweeted about the N word Navy. They were trying to say bigger Navy, but they slipped an N in there. And if you. If you were on Twitter, that was like a OG Black Twitter day. That was probably my. I don't think that happened while I was at work. I don't think a single lick of work got done that day.
- [07:04]
Mike
I mean, you're also burying the lead of, like, the headline was Obama wants A.
- [07:12]
Bridget Todd
The headline they were trying to say was Obama wants a bigger Navy. And instead of a B, they used an N. And the whole black Internet just was cutting up that day. And it was. It was hilarious about the BAFTA situation. I went through a real evolution on this, as I feel like I kind of took you along on my evolution in the passenger seat. I did not love a lot of the reaction to what happened online. I had to do my own looking into this. And something that I learned that I did not know is that coprolalia is not just the involuntary shouting of random swears. The brain actually gives you a sense of what the absolute worst thing to contextually say in any given moment would be to say, and then that's what the tick can be. And so it's not just random swears. It's the absolute worst thing that you could say in any given situation. That could be the tic. That was new information to me. And it does. It is hard, not to mention, just incorrect to see people say, oh, well, this person meant what they said. I have seen some of that reaction. To be clear, it is not as if having this condition means that a person can't also be racist or an asshole on top of it, but someone's tics are not representative of how they actually feel. And that's just the bottom line. That's all there is to it. So I really feel for Davidson that people are essentially saying that he must be a racist because of this tick. So that's one piece of it that I think is important to sort of ground the conversation in. The other piece of it is that I think some of the big reactions that this sparked is really just a function of the baseline difficulty of being a black person, let alone a black creative, when you have to endure so much disrespect in a field where you're already marginalized and treated as less than you know. Delroy Lindo, who is in Sinners. I saw a video from a different red carpet earlier this month where he was being interviewed on a red carpet. And the person interviewing him essentially said, how does it feel to be older and be having this newfound success in Hollywood with sinners? And anybody who knows anything about black film will tell you that Delroy Lindo has had a decades long career. He is one of our elders. I first saw Delroy Lindo as the father in the Spike Lee movie Crooklyn, which it's a Spike Lee film that does not get the, the celebration that it should because it's beautiful. It's like one of my favorite movies, probably my favorite Spike Lee film, which is saying a lot. He was in that movie in like 1994, right? So saying, oh, you find, you, you are, you're new in Hollywood just shows you don't know who I am because you don't. You've not. You, you are, you are doing a red carpet interview and you've not bothered to learn the history of the black talent that you're going to be interviewing, which is disrespectful. So I think that it's just a sensitive issue on top of it being a super sensitive and delicate time. There are just so many pain points for our community right now. I think that is why we are seeing such a reaction. And so I really don't like a lot of the reaction that I've seen that basically suggests that black folks are sort of overreacting to the impact of what happened. Because I simply cannot express to you how mortifying this must have been for the Sinners team. And I just don't accept the reaction that says, oh, black people have to be okay with hearing slurs at a ceremony, because ultimately that's not fair to the black talent that's there. And it's not fair to Davidson either, because I don't believe that that's not inclusion. To me, I think it is great that Davidson was included in this event. But, you know, that saying, you know, diversity is being invited to a dance. Inclusion is being asked to dance at that dance. I feel like the BAFTAs invited him to a dance and then did not dance with him. And real inclusion does not pit different marginalized groups needs against each other. And the thing is, ultimately, it does not have to be this way. And who made it that way? It was not Davidson, because Davidson has a condition where he is not in control of the ticks. It's obviously not that Sinners cast. It's the baftas and it's the BBC, the company that aired the baftas. That is who we should be angry at. That is who let everybody in that room down. Because this was an institutional failure of the highest level, and I think people should be fired. I cannot believe that we are not seeing, you know, groveling fucking apologies on television. Who. For this monumental failure to the point where, I mean, it might sound like a conspiracy theory. And I have. I have no inside information. I've just done a lot of reading about what happened here, and I might be wrong. And if I'm wrong, I will eat my words. I think the Baptist set Davidson up. I think this was. You were actually the one that kind of called this. I don't know if I would say I was. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I thought maybe they. The baftas, were trying super hard to include Davidson and were making the mistake of saying the way that we include Davidson is just to invite him and have no other support mechanisms in place for whatever might. That. Whatever that might result in. You were like, I wonder if this was intentional to get eyeballs and attention. And I thought that's. That couldn't possibly be. You have made a truth or. Out of me. I believe that this was intentional.
- [13:17]
Mike
I mean, I didn't know. Again, I didn't know anything about the BAFTAs. The. The people who are producing this. But just like the facts that are reported in newspapers paint a pretty damning portrait.
- [13:30]
Bridget Todd
Let's talk about it. So here's what we know. We know that the baftas warned the audience that they might hear outbursts per Variety prior to the start of the ceremony. Floor managers warned guests and attendees sitting around Davidson of his condition without specifying what kinds of outbursts they may hear. According to multiple sources, none of the nominees or attendees were contacted by BAFTA or the BBC ahead of the show with any such warning. So they get you in the audience, they say, hey, just FYI, you might hear some outbursts. It's interesting to me that, you know, so, so much prior planning goes into these award ceremonies. It's interesting that the first time these attendees are hearing about it is in the audience with Davidson there. 1.
- [14:20]
Mike
Yeah, I think that's worth, like, highlighting. It's just the amount of planning that goes into a production like this. Like. Like, this is a ballroom full of a list celebrities being recorded for an international primetime broadcast. Like, this isn't neighborhood theater.
- [14:42]
Bridget Todd
This is not your daughter's junior high performance of Grease. Okay. This is the BAFTAs. This is big time.
- [14:48]
Mike
This is big time. Yeah. So that right there suggests that, of course there are going to be a lot of people planning, thinking about all, all aspects of the production. Right. Like, there's probably dozens, maybe over 100 people whose job was coordinating the production of this thing.
- [15:11]
Bridget Todd
Yes. So it gets so much worse. In a profile for Variety immediately following this incident, Davidson reveals that the BAFTAs and the BBC essentially gave him the impression that any tics would not be heard by the people on stage. He was set 40 rows back from the stage, and initially he did not even realize that people on stage could hear him. He says that he was also given the impression that any of his tics would be cut out from the broadcast because it's on a tape delay. He said that he has worked with BBC a lot in the past. They're super familiar with what his tics can sound like. In that Variety profile, he says Studio Canal, the production company that made the film he was there to celebrate, had worked closely with bafta, and BAFTA had made us all aware that any swearing would be edited out of the broadcast. I have made four documentaries with the BBC in the past and feel that they should have been aware of what to expect from Tourette's and worked harder to prevent anything that I said, which after all, was some 40 rows back from the stage from being included in the broadcast. Now we know that wasn't done.
- [16:20]
Mike
Everything up to this point, you could be like, well, okay, you know, mistakes were made.
- [16:25]
Bridget Todd
Here's where I lost it. He says, 40 rows back from the stage, the Baptist put a microphone in front of him. The profile reads, as I reflect on the auditorium. I remember there was a microphone just in front of me. And, and with hindsight, I have to question whether this was wise. So close to where I was seated, knowing I would tick.
- [16:50]
Mike
It's so British. Like, I have to question if that was wise.
- [16:53]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I, Yes, I don't think it was wise. Question answered. What the.
- [17:04]
Mike
No, I, I, I agree, it, it seems pretty unwise when really that was
- [17:09]
Bridget Todd
the point that made me think this. I, I, I do believe this was intentional. I there, you know, I asked around and someone was like, the only thing I can maybe see is maybe if they wanted to get audio of his area specifically to tone match it later and in some sort of, like, there's a, there's a, I don't, I don't believe, I don't buy it. I don't, I don't buy it. I don't believe it.
- [17:33]
Mike
Yeah, like, what would be the purpose of, you know, like, maybe they want to capture audio of him for some other purpose.
- [17:42]
Bridget Todd
The, the idea here, which I don't believe, is that it might have been a room tone. So when, when we make the podcast, we will sit in silence to get what's called room tone, which is just a general sound of the room, so that when you're editing later, it sounds more natural because you're, you're able to swap in what it actually sounded like, that I think that's what they were getting at. Maybe they were doing it to sort of for a later edit. But they didn't edit. So then why do they even need room tone? Yeah.
- [18:09]
Mike
And if, and like if the idea is that they have multiple microphones throughout the theater pick to like get room tone. Why were those mixed into the main broadcast?
- [18:22]
Bridget Todd
Hello? It doesn't make any sense.
- [18:25]
Mike
It doesn't make any sense.
- [18:30]
Bridget Todd
Take a quick break.
- [18:36]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [18:39]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your wifi was more than just WI fi? What if your wifi made everything in your whole house just work together better?
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Matt Rogers
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- [19:06]
Mike
Right.
- [19:06]
Bowen Yang
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Mike
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- [19:41]
Matt Rogers
Xfinity. Imagine that.
- [19:43]
Malcolm Glabel
Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for Business, recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slices strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.
- [19:56]
T Mobile Business Representative
Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes.
- [20:21]
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Bridget Todd
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- [22:34]
Mike
Yeah, I mean the only way it makes sense is somebody made the, the like active, deliberate decision that they were going to keep it in. I would love to see evidence that something else happened, but that's the only thing that makes sense to me.
- [22:52]
Bridget Todd
Paul Thomas Anderson won best director for one battle after another and part of his speech says anyone that says movies aren't any good anymore can just piss right off. They bleeped piss out for social media. In the clip that was shared on both the BBC and Bafta YouTube pages, they removed that sentence entirely. So you can't piss off. That is too strong of language to be included. The N word, totally fine. Make it make sense again. I know a lot of folks online were really focused on Davidson and I read a lot of interesting takes from black folks with Tourette's. However, Davidson had nothing to do with the editorial choices of the BAFTAs. Like, like I, that I am keeping my foot on the neck of the BAFTAs and the BBC and I just have to wonder what the hell happened here. And even more damning, the Guardian reported that Warner Brothers, the studio behind Sinners, said immediately after the slur was said that that they requested the baftas edited out from the broadcast, which was on a two hour delay. So given that, I do believe that this was left in deliberately. Afterward, the baftas put out a statement apologizing for the error, saying that their production team didn't hear the slur because they were quote, working from a truck. Okay, make sure I just don't believe this. And I mean I, I don't know, I, I, I know I sound like a conspiracy theorist. I read, I've read takes that, oh I, I did read a take that initially I thought oh, that's not true. Where it was like oh, maybe they were doing this to take the heat off of the news that Prince Andrew was arrested in connection with the Epstein files. And I was like, oh, that's really silly. Then I did find out that the president of the Baptist is Prince William. So I was like, oh, interesting.
- [24:39]
Mike
I mean, I'm just saying, just asking questions, like. So to me, that feels like a step into conspiracy territory. Right, because we don't have any evidence of that. But, like, the idea that this was a deliberate decision to leave it in that I think is supported by a fair amount of evidence here. And I mean, we can only wonder why. Maybe it was a conspiracy to, like, create some news to distract from Prince Andrew's Epstein connections. That seems a little complicated to me.
- [25:14]
Bridget Todd
I want to be clear, I'm not endorsing that as a conspiracy, as a. As what I think is going on. I just wanted to note that that is one of the things people are saying.
- [25:21]
Mike
Yeah, I mean, I think a much simpler explanation is just they, they just wanted some controversy, you know, something that's going to generate buzz, generate engagement, and whoever made that decision didn't care about who they had to throw under the bus to get it. Which in this case involves everyone involved. Right. Involved the sitters team, involved Davidson himself. And, you know, you make a good point that people were. Some of the discourse online was focused on Davidson, the guy who said the slur. First of all, yeah, he has Tourette's. It was an involuntary thing. But even if that weren't true, even if he was like a racist person who wanted to say this slur, that's just like one guy. The fact that the baftas and the BBC, these like massive institutions who have so much public trust, decided to air it is such a bigger story, in my opinion.
- [26:26]
Bridget Todd
Decided to air it, but thought the words piss off, that language is too strong. Our audience cannot handle the words piss off. The N word is totally fine, though, that, that, that's all good. This may sound like a small thing, but in that Variety profile, he describes sort of the moment of shame and horror and mortification, of realizing that his tics were being heard by the folks on stage. He says, I was trying to calm myself down to breathe, but ultimately I made the decision to, to leave, to not cause any more upset. BAFTA found a private room with a monitor where I watched the rest of the awards. And to me, that small thing reveals a lot, because as we said, this is a huge production. Why was there no support plan in place ahead of time? The fact that there. That they knew that there was a possibility that he would experience tics and that the whole movie that he says the BBC's and the Baftas are so, so aware of his story, they have worked together before, is that when this happens, he experiences shame and mortification. The fact that they did not have a plan in place for what would happen if he experienced deep shame and deep mortification while at this ceremony says a lot to me. Why did they have to, why did they have to find a room? Why was there no plan in place? A contingency plan that's like, okay, if you experience a tick and it's, you are feeling the things that we are aware, you know, we know goes into it when you experience these tics. Here's what we're going to do, here's where you're going to go, here's how we're going to support you. I just think it's a bullshit. I really think like the BAFTAs have really done such a disservice to everybody in that room. And yeah, I, this is not how you support anybody. This is not how you support people that you've invited to be in community with you at an award ceremony.
- [28:14]
Mike
A hundred percent. If you organize a party, throw a party, invite guests to come to your party, you have the responsibility for making sure that it is a safe experience for everybody there. And they really failed everybody involved. And this guy was their VIP guest. Yeah, like imagine. I mean, it just has to make you wonder about what sort of care they would take for other people who were not VIP guests.
- [28:44]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. You know, I've never been to England. I was watching this interesting take from a comedian who's from there, London Hughes. And she made the point that, listen, there are just not enough black people in England for there to be the same kind of outcry that you've seen in the United States. There is a generation of black people my age for whom Delroy Lindo is like a stand in for our father. Right. Or like, like reminds us of our father. I would have a hard time picking another black, another pair of black actors right now that, that, that the black community has, has more fondness for than Delroy Lindo and Michael B. Jordan. I really, I, I, I'm maybe Denzel Washington, maybe Samuel L. Jackson, but like Delroy Lindo is ours. We are not going to forget this. Right. And so London was saying how in, in England they just have a different vibe around these public moments of racism where they don't really complain the same way. They're not as Vocal the same way. There's like a cultural attitude about sort of stiff upper lip that we do our loud asses in the United States do not share. And yeah, she was like, I, I hope that black Americans stay on the Bafta's net about this and the BBC's neck about this. And I can tell you one thing, this black American is going to stay on the Baftas on the BBC's neck about this because I need answers. I need to know who is being fired. I need to know whether or not the president of the Baptist Prince William will be stepping down. I need to know who made this decision, how it happened, what accountability looks like, how are they atoning, where are they giving money? Like, I, I need the action plan. And I'll tell you something else. Black folks are not going to let this shit go. It's Black History Month. We have a fascist in the White House who was like calling black people all kinds of apes and monkeys. We're not standing for this. And I think I, I, I, I don't, I don't see us getting over this anytime soon. I know I won't be. And truly, I just think that not only do black people deserve better, Michael B. Jordan deserves better. Delroy Lindo deserves better. Hannah Beach Floor deserves better. The entire center's team deserves better. Every black person in that audience watching at home deserves better. And Davidson deserves better. The Tourette's community deserves better. Like, it's such an institutional failure that if they think we are stupid enough to look at Davidson, who is not in control of these ticks and expect accountability from him and not them, if they think that we're gonna fall for just like throwing him under the bus when he could not control these ticks, they're wrong. And I'm really happy to see the sort of conversation shift to the institutional failure that the baftas and the BBC are responsible for in this.
- [31:46]
Mike
Well, speaking of institutional failures, what's new with Meta?
- [31:50]
Bridget Todd
That was going to be my transition.
- [31:52]
Mike
You'll do it better.
- [31:54]
Bridget Todd
Okay. So I love when companies like Meta kind of give away their game, which you know that about me. Meta said that they have a plan to integrate facial recognition technology into their smart glasses. According to reporting from the New York Times, Meta could add facial recognition technology to smart glasses. And as early as this year, as is the case with a lot of this kind of stuff, even though it's like horribly invasive, dangerous surveillance technology, they have to give it a cutesy name. And so their cutesy internal name is nametag.
- [32:27]
Mike
Oh, it's like you're being friendly at a mixer where you don't know anybody. Name tag.
- [32:32]
Bridget Todd
Yuck. Yeah. It's like how Ring Camera. Their horrible facial recognition technology. It's called Search Party, and it's only for dogs and maybe some people, and then also all people. Also all people on top of it. So according to the New York Times, it would let anybody who owns Meta Smart Glasses identify people in the real world, instantly pulling up their information through Meta's AI assistant. What's even more troubling to me is that these documents show that apparently the company had these plans to sort of soften the public rollout by framing it as a accessibility tool for the disabled community. The idea, which didn't really materialize, it sounds like, seemed to involve debuting at a conference for blind users before releasing it more broadly, essentially using the disabled community as a kind of PR shield. Like, oh, nobody can say this is facial recognition technology. It's to help visually impaired users. We unveiled it at a conference for people with visual impairment. Now, they. They didn't actually do this, but. Yeah, ghouls, yeah.
- [33:43]
Mike
God, I. I love these stories about Meta where it's like, okay, we're un. We're rolling out this terrible, awful new feature that's gonna, like, ruin everyone's lives. How could we also sneak in some other harm to, like, just. Just screw over some other unrelated community in the process?
- [34:04]
Bridget Todd
And how can we spell all of this out in shocking detail in a written document that will at one point be part of a New York Times expose? They love putting this shit in writing. I will. I love it. Never stop. Love it. Please continue to write this shit in documents so that I can read it later and be like, oh, my Lord, that is incriminating.
- [34:29]
Mike
Yeah, I think it was unwise.
- [34:31]
Bridget Todd
I think that's going to be. Let's. Let's phase that in as a saying on the show. I think it might have been unwise. Like, have these people ever heard of a fucking phone call? Like, has it ever occurred to anybody to be like, should we put the evil plan in writing or should we just talk about it face to face? So those same internal documents also show that they had this plan. They knew that this was going to be unpopular. They had this plan to roll it out. During moments of political turmoil. One of the moments that they floated was when Trump started sending federal immigration troops to cities. They were like, oh, that could have been a good time to roll this out, because the public will be too burnt out and distracted to notice or care when you are Trying to roll out a technology, you know it's going to be good when you need to phase it in during a time where people are distracted and won't notice. So we have already talked about how this technology is already being used to target women. Now the Independent is reporting that domestic abuse organizations like Women's Aid and Refuge are specifically warning that this plan to add facial recognition technology is going to put women at risk. They say that this technology poses a direct and serious risk to survivors by placing them in harm's way and enabling abusers to locate and track them. Which, to be fair, I think is just common sense. I'm glad these organizations are saying it's, hey, you know, who's not going to be real chill in this technology scenario? Survivors who have been abused and women who are definitely going to be harmed. I'm glad they're stepping up to say this, but it's like kind of obvious to me that that would be the case.
- [36:15]
Mike
Yeah, that's an obvious one. And also there's like so many reasons why it would be bad to just have everybody walking around with facial recognition cameras on their face, just tracking everyone's movements all the time without their consent.
- [36:35]
Bridget Todd
Right. These are. These organizers say that it threatens all of our safety, but especially the safety of women and girls in public by giving the wearers the ability to access information about them without their consent. Like, whatever happened to some sort of consent based system? But you're just out and about living your life. You're not consenting to whoever looks at you to have any kind of information about your whereabouts or who you are. And you know, we talk a lot about consent in technology and this is just a very good example of the fact that these people don't give a shit about consent.
- [37:06]
Mike
Yeah. Can, you know, consent to be identified and then consent to have who knows what other information shared with the people who are wearing these glasses? Right. Because maybe the glasses just tell you the person's name, but Meta sure knows a lot more information about everybody than just their name. Right. And like, is there gonna be a premium feature where you can pay a subscription and just get like the full everything about a person, what their relationship, status is, who they're dating, what they're into, what kind of videos they like, what kind of wine they like to drink? Like, Meta knows so much about us, you know, so there's the, there's a lot of reason to be concerned about the, the surveillance aspect of this in terms of having these cameras recording everybody. But there's also, I think A lot of reason to be concerned about like, well, what does it look like for the end user who is viewing this information? What kind of information are they going to get about people?
- [38:18]
Bridget Todd
I'm imagining what it looks like when Terminator 2 looks at somebody and you know when in the movie when they show it through like T2 lens and it's all this information and data and demographic stuff about people. Like that's, that's how I'm imagining it in my head. Let me not give Mark Zuckerberg more horrible ideas for his technologies by saying that some people are fighting back though, because 404 Media first reported that there's this new app called the Glasses Nearby app that is meant to help people know when somebody is using Meta Glasses Nearby. The developer of the app, Eves Jean Renaud, told 404, I consider it to be a tiny part of resistance against surveillance technology.
- [38:57]
Mike
That's an interesting app. We should look into that.
- [38:59]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. And I don't even think we need to pretend that we don't know how this is going to end if Meta does this. One of the anti domestic violence organizations that spoke to the Independent is quoted as saying time and time again we see what happens when devices go to market without proper consideration for how they might be used to harm women and girls, adding that it is unacceptable for women and girls safety to be treated as an afterthought. I mean, I don't think we, if they do this. And when you and I are on the microphone talking about how the woman who was stalked, the woman who was killed, the woman who was harmed, the woman who was exploited, I will, I will cut this audio and put it there because we don't need to wonder or speculate how this is going to end. We already know that these glasses are being used to film women without their consent. 404 also reported a while back about how people use these glasses to record women at massage parlors without their consent. And then that footage was uploaded and, and used to advertise adult content. So again, we already know how Meta Glasses are currently already being used. Adding facial recognition technology is only going to make that worse. And so yeah, these domestic violence organizations are openly saying this is going to hurt women. And Meta is like, we're fine with that if it makes us money. And it's just another example of how the exploitation of women and girls is a feature, not a bug, to people like this who are building technology. More after a quick break.
- [40:37]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [40:40]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your wifi was more than just WI fi? What if your wifi made everything in your whole house just work together better?
- [40:51]
Matt Rogers
Well, Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high perform.
- [40:57]
Bowen Yang
Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping.
- [41:07]
Bridget Todd
Right?
- [41:07]
Bowen Yang
Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment. Well, you can boost the wifi to your device with Xfinity.
- [41:17]
Matt Rogers
And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wifi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI fi has parenting skills. And even if you sometimes forget yours, Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI fi.
- [41:32]
Bowen Yang
It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.
- [41:42]
Matt Rogers
Xfinity. Imagine that.
- [41:44]
Malcolm Glabel
Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for Business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slices strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.
- [41:57]
T Mobile Business Representative
Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly, are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have? Smash those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes.
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- [43:27]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. This is not usually the kind of story that we cover here, but I did want to just quickly talk about what's happening with Anthropic and the Pentagon because to me it's a pretty big deal and I just want to make sure that it gets included in our conversation. So Anthropic, the makers of the very popular chatbot Claude, they have kind of a reputation for being one of the more safety minded big AI companies. I know that is not saying a lot, especially when your competitors are helmed by folks like Elon Musk, who we know that, that his AI is being used to post child sexual abuse material all over the Internet. And folks like Mark Zuckerberg, who we were just talking about. His entire dark digital empire is premised on the idea that harming people is okay if it makes money. In that landscape, it is pretty easy to be considered kind of the safety minded one of the group. And so I want to be clear that I know that that is not saying much, but that is the case for Anthropic, right, Mike?
- [44:32]
Mike
Yeah, that's right. They're their CEO does seem like a little bit of a different type of guy. They've really gone out of their way to brand themselves as more safety minded and also put in place, I think, procedures that they follow with the development of their AI to make it to ensure that it is more safe than what we see from some of their competitors. Of course, earlier this week they walked some of that back, you know, but that's neither here nor there. Yeah, it's, you know, it's super complicated with AI because all of these systems burn tremendous amounts of energy and are prone to like a lot of issues. But all that said, yeah, I agree. I think, you know, of the, the group, Anthropic is known to sort of stand out as being more concerned about safety.
- [45:34]
Bridget Todd
Yes. And we're not. I want to be clear that I don't think either of us is like endorsing Anthropic, but just contextually that context is important to understand what's going on. Anthropic also has, I would say they're notable for having more transparency around how its models work. A lot of other AI companies are much more opaque about this. Anthropic has been more transparent. And I think that that transparency is one of the Reasons why Claude was the first AI chatbot that the Pentagon adopted in its own systems, including cases where it processes classified information. This was obviously a major PR win for Anthropic as well as came along with a pretty lucrative contract deal worth $200 million. So that contract with the Department of Defense is now in jeopardy because Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth says that he is unwilling to accept restrictions that Anthropic has put in place over what its AI can and cannot be used for. Now, there are two specific restrictions that Anthropic CEO Dario Amodi has insisted on. One is that Claude's AI cannot be used for autonomous weapon systems. So basically no killer robots. And this is important because we're really seeing more and more increasingly sophisticated and increasingly autonomous drones being used in military conflicts. The second restriction is that Anthropic does not want its AI to be used for mass surveillance against Americans. Now, I don't know about you, but these seem like very reasonable restrictions to me. If anything, they do not go far enough. People in democracies should resist mass surveillance of any kind, I think, out of principle, regardless of citizenship. And the prospect of AI systems making decisions about targeting people with deadly force is just terrifying for multiple reasons. Not the least of all is the fact that we know that AI is more likely to make mistakes when people from marginalized backgrounds are involved. So, yeah, pretty reasonable. Two pretty reasonable restrictions from Anthropic. So Anthropic has drawn a hard line against its AI being used for either of those two applications. I think most people would agree, not Secretary Pete Hegseth. Secretary Pete Hegseth feels so strongly about it that he is threatening to use the Defense Production act to force Anthropic to allow him to use its AI for whatever he wants. The Defense Production act allows the government to take over industrial processes and goods if it's necessary for national security. And Pete Hegsett is arguing that it would be necessary for national security, the Defense Production Act. If that sounds familiar, it's because it was most recently used during the initial years of the COVID pandemic to ramp up production of medical supplies like ventilators and ppe. Now, Hegseth is saying that any restrictions on what the Pentagon is allowed to do with Anthropic products are a threat to national security. So he should be allowed to seize those products if Anthropic will not provide them willingly. And if he does, this would be a pretty novel, not to mention unsettling, use of the Defense Production Act. Talking to the Washington Post. A director at the center for Strategic and International Studies for industrial base issues named Jerry McGinn said that they weren't even sure if that law had ever been used that way in the past.
- [49:02]
Mike
Yeah, Hankseth has been very open, including during his confirmation hearings and his time on Fox News before that, that he really views things like rules of engagement or any other restrictions on military force as like, woke nonsense that he doesn't have time for. Thinks is bad for America. One of his first actions when he became the Secretary of Defense was to fire a bunch of military lawyers because he thought they were gonna get in his way for doing things, which, like, prompted people to ask, what. What sort of things is he planning on doing that having lawyers around would be problematic? So that's just like, his baseline attitude. And it's not terribly surprising that he doesn't like the idea of anthropic restrictions here.
- [49:53]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, it is not surprising. So the latest here is that Pete Hegseth has given Anthropic a deadline of 5pm on Friday, February 27, the day that this episode comes out. As of us recording this episode on February 26, the evening before that deadline, Anthropica said that they are not going to cave. They put out a statement saying using these systems for mass domestic surveillance is incompatible with democratic values. And today, frontier AI systems are simply not reliable enough to power fully autonomous weapons. These threats do not change our position. We cannot in good conscience accede to their request. It seems like a pretty big deal if the Trump administration is able to essentially seize AI technology and control it in this way. And again, really just, it sounds to me like this is about who gets to control AI. And I guess the Trump administration feels like it's them, and Anthropic feels differently.
- [50:54]
Mike
Yeah. And apparently also the Trump administration, like, it's hard to. To look at all this and not feel like they are intending to use it for mass domestic surveillance. Like, they say that they aren't, but they're liars.
- [51:10]
Bridget Todd
I saw this statement that Pete Hegseth put out, and he said, oh, the fact the I. The claim that we want to use AI to mass surveil citizens is just a leftist talking point because mass surveillance of American citizens is illegal. First of all, like, that has ever stopped y' all from doing a goddamn thing, ever. Second of all, y' all are already mass surveilling people, so what are you even talking about? Then he goes on to say, those two points of contention are just liberal leftist talking points. We just want to use AI to defend national security. It's not even a good statement. It's not even a statement that it's, it's the kind of statement that you read and you're like, well, it's clear that you want to do these two things that Anthropic has said that you want to do.
- [51:55]
Mike
Yeah, it's like, pretty farcical what they're trying to argue. Yeah, we'll stay on it. I'm so curious if this is going to become like a bigger story over the weekend depending on what Hegseth decides to do, because it seems like Anthropic is not going to cave.
- [52:13]
Bridget Todd
Well, speaking of domestic mass surveillance, we do have to talk about what's going on in Kansas. It's enraging and heartbreaking. The excellent trans rights publication Aaron in the Morning is reporting that trans folks in Kansas are receiving letters from the state's Division of Vehicles that their driver's licenses are are now considered invalid after the publication of a new law on Thursday, February 26. Now, per this new law, driver's licenses in Kansas are only valid if they indicate a person's sex assigned at birth. Now, this law has no grace period. You basically go to bed and you wake up and your driver's license is invalid. You are, you are not legally permitted to drive your car. Not that it would make it better if there was a grace period, because it absolutely wouldn't. But just to give you a sense of how haphazard, which I think is intentional, this, this policy change has been. So this new law, which contains multiple provisions aimed at making life difficult and dangerous for trans folks, was initially vetoed by the governor only to be overridden by the legislature. It was called the Bathroom Bounty Bill because one of the things it does is, is essentially set up a bounty system that encourages members of the public to sue trans people for entering bathrooms that match their gender. So that's bad enough. But as Aaron in the Morning points out, the driver's license provisions are a part of a broader national push by anti trans activists to deny trans folks access to accurate legal identification documents. It follows federal actions made by the Trump administration that prevent trans folks from getting passports that reflect their gender and new rules under the Social Security Administration that prevent people from updating their gender. Florida, Texas, Indiana, and other states have similarly taken steps to prevent folks from changing the gender that's displayed on their driver's license. Just side note, Aaron in the Morning is an invaluable resource for journalism about attacks on trans folks. We'll put the link in the show notes, but I highly recommend that folks sign up for the newsletter and support their journalism if you're able to do that. These efforts to deny trans folks accurate identification, it's not just inconvenient, it is dangerous. Y' all might remember Brittany Stewart. She's the attorney that we spoke with a couple of weeks ago in an episode about the trans Oklahoma grad student who was relieved of her teaching duties at her university after giving a student a bad grade on a paper. Brittany is also a trans woman, and I asked Brittany for her thoughts and here's what she had to say.
- [54:50]
Brittany Stewart
This week in Kansas, the state legislature overrode the veto of Governor Kelly of a bill that affects trans people's use of restrooms, creating a private bounty if people use a restroom that matches their gender identity rather than their sex assigned at birth. But it also went further and the new law actually requires that trans people have a their sex assigned at birth listed on their Kansas driver's license and identification cards. In 2005, I came out fully to my family and began hormone replacement therapy. At the time in Oklahoma, they did not allow updating the sex marker on driver's licenses unless one had had permanent surgical changes. So for a time, I carried a driver's license with my name as Brittany with a photo of me looking like a woman, but with a sex marker of M for male. It was terrifying driving, especially outside of Oklahoma City. Or I worried that a small town cop might pull me over, see that my sex marker doesn't match my appearance, and use it as a reason to abuse me. Today, Kansas is forcing that to be the reality for all trans people, regardless of their surgical status or their years lived authentically. I had my bottom surgery in 2007, and Oklahoma allowed me to update my birth certificate and driver's license after that. So it's been almost 20 years since I've had to live with that fear. But today, trans Kansans, regardless of if they've had those documents updated for decades, will now have to either carry identification that outs them or flee to another state. That's where we're at. And because of the Supreme Court decision this past summer that dissolved the injunction that had stopped the US government from doing the same thing on passports and providing the reasoning that sex assigned at birth can be listed because, quote, it's just a historic fact, there will likely not be an easy way for courts to stop this. These policies won't stop in Kansas. This is the beginning of a trans genocide. I have resisted using that word for a while because it can sound hyperbolic, especially when used too soon. But this is reality. We trans people only make up about 1% of the population, so we need our allies to get loud, march in the streets for us, occupy the Kansas Capitol building for us, fight back in every state and territory for us. Stop falling for right wing concern trolls about, quote, just protecting kids or quote protecting women's sports when they are literally protecting pedophiles. First they came for the immigrants, now they're coming from the trans folks. It's that serious. I'll end this with some hope and joy though. In 2017, I married my best friend and the love of my life, a straight CIS guy from the working class who was willing to stand proudly next to his woman, who was not just a trans woman, but a trans woman who was well known and out and about and open about my life. Having been the first out trans candidate for public office in Oklahoma, he risked family and friends to marry me. So I know there are good cisgender folks out there and we need you now more than ever. Thank you.
- [58:58]
Bridget Todd
Brittany is not the only voice that I've heard appealing to CIS allies to really make a lot of noise about this. Because these escalating attacks against trans folks are simply unacceptable. And we need to make that clear to everyone, elected officials and everybody else. More after a quick break.
- [59:25]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [59:28]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. What if your WI fi was more than just WI fi? What if your WI fi made everything in your whole house just work?
- [59:39]
Matt Rogers
Xfinity WI Fi pretty much does exactly that. It's powered by their best, most elite high performing tech.
- [59:45]
Bowen Yang
Allow us to paint a very realistic example. Everyone in your house, everyone is on their devices at the exact same time. Gaming, working, swiping.
- [59:55]
Bridget Todd
Right?
- [59:55]
Bowen Yang
Because of course they are. And the finale of your favorite show of all time of the week is on at the exact same moment.
- [60:02]
Mike
Well, you can boost the WI fi
- [60:03]
Bowen Yang
to your device with Xfinity.
- [60:05]
Matt Rogers
And have you ever asked yourself, what if my wifi could keep watch over my kids for me? Well, probably not, because that's a weird thing to ask yourself. But Xfinity WI Fi has parenting skills, even if you sometimes forget yours. Xfinity's like, don't worry, I'll monitor the WI fi.
- [60:20]
Bowen Yang
It's completely proactive, fixing issues before they even happen. Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having wifi that's got your back.
- [60:30]
Matt Rogers
Xfinity. Imagine that.
- [60:32]
Malcolm Glabel
Hello, Malcolm Glabel here. We're here in New York City with T Mobile for Business recording another episode of Revisionist history about how 5G network slicing strengthens trust and connections across worldwide industries.
- [60:45]
T Mobile Business Representative
Slicing can be used for so many different things. We're here with our friends from CNN from Siemens Energy. The ways that it can be used, frankly are limitless and are really, really built to think through. How can T Mobile understand the pain points that our customers have smashed those pain points and help you deliver very specific outcomes?
- [61:10]
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- [62:14]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. Just a quick heads up. This segment talks about murder. So back in 2022 there was a very high profile, tragic murder of students at the University of Idaho. And it was one of those situations where people were using social media platforms like TikTok to weigh in. Which is often the case in our sort of true crime obsessed landscape where whenever something tragic happens, strangers follow it like it's a television show and not the tragedies of real people who you don't even know. One of the people weighing in was a Texas woman who says that she is psychic who used TikTok to accuse a University of Idaho professor of the murders. So the Idaho Statesman reports that Ashley Goulard, a TikTok personality who claims to have psychic abilities, is due in federal court in Boise this week for a scheduled trial to finally resolve the three year old civil suit brought by the professor that she accused of murder, Rebecca Schofield now, to be super clear, Scofield, the chair of the University of Idaho history department, has never met or taught any of the four students who were murdered. She wrote this in her denial. She was also out of town in Oregon when these students were killed. So she just genuinely had nothing to do with it. I just want to make that super clear. Back In June of 2024, a judge ruled in favor of Scofield, and now it is up to a jury to decide what the financial damages will be. Scofield previously asked for more than $1.8 million. Now this TikTok psychic. Her behavior is wild. She published more than 100 videos that made erroneous allegations against Schofield. The accusations included that the professor had a romantic relationship with one of the four victims, which, again, she never met them, had no contact with them, and ordered their deaths to prevent the affair with a female student from becoming public. Again, that's completely made up. The professor sent her cease and desist letters, but those letters were ignored. And understandably, the professor Scofield says that the allegations have led to PTSD and considerable professional hardship, which I have no trouble believing that.
- [64:33]
Mike
Yeah, allegations that she was having an affair with one of her students and then, like, murdered four of them. I can see how that would be, you know, a challenging professional context around the whole university now.
- [64:51]
Bridget Todd
Gileard, the tick tock psychic. Her defense is first amendment based. According to the Idaho Statesman, she has maintained that the defamation lawsuit infringed upon her first amendment rights and her free expression of religion. She says that because she reads tarot cards, she argues that it's a spiritual practice that led her to, quote, uncover the motive and details that led to the murder, even though this woman had nothing to do with the murder. So her tarot and, like, spiritual alignment is leading her in the wrong direction. You should not be able to use your platform to accuse a random stranger of a brutal crime they did not commit on a public platform. And honestly, I think this case is kind of a sign of the times because when platforms won't really police this kind of thing and the law hasn't really caught up, I think increasingly the only tool that we're. That we're seeing people have is to just sue. Like, a defamation lawsuit is sort of becoming the new cease and desist. Because I think with social media, we have this climate that anybody can say anything about anybody and it's okay, right? And like, I think more and more people are like, actually, it's not okay if it causes me hardship. Or makes me lose money, I'm going to sue you. And like, for what it's worth, these lawsuits are expensive and slow. It takes years. Like this civil case actually outlived the actual criminal trial for the murders. But I do think it's kind of becomes people's only real recourse when somebody with a platform just decides that they're going to ruin their life via, via accusations that are just like fan fiction, not grounded in any kind of reality.
- [66:32]
Mike
That's right. We've seen that lots of times in stories that we've talked about on this show where. Yeah, defamation lawsuits are one of the seemingly few tools available for these harms that, that occur when people say patently untrue things on social media.
- [66:54]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. And I, I do hope I've done an episode about this before. I do think this is related to the rise of true crime and the rise of social media platforms. In the episode that we did about true crime, we'll put it in the show notes, I talked about how, and I know that you know this about me, but when I was young, one of my good friends was murdered by a serial killer. And it was like, I mean, before my parents died, this was the thing that kind of separated my life in phases of like before this happened and then after this happened. Like that, that's how much of a. That, that's how, that's how much it shattered my world. And I remember when it happened, my friend for a time was before, before she was found dead, she was missing. Right. And so the presumption was that she was still alive. There was a man, a search for her, and her story was all over the news. And I will never forget watching that bitch Nancy Grace basically go on television and essentially blame my good friend for her own murder by highlighting the fact that my friend was kind of a punk rocker and went to a lot of punk shows, was an artist, had an alternative look about her. She did not fit the Persona of, you know, she was white, but she did not fit the Persona of a, you know, angelic looking white girl who has gone missing and essentially made it sound as if my friend was probably involved with seedy people doing seedy things and that's why she was missing. My friend was murdered by a serial killer who she had never met, was completely unknown to her, snatched her from a fucking parking lot. And I will never forget what it felt like to have a stranger offer their unasked for based in nothing pulled out of her ass opinion about what might have happened to my friend based on fucking fabrications and nothing else. And so I think that when tragedies happen, because we listen to a lot of true crime, because it feels good to like turn other people's pain into content. And I think, I think it is easy for people to be divorced from the fact that these are real people and real communities and real loved ones and real families. I think it makes. It emboldens people to get on TikTok and just say whatever because it's just content, it's not real people. And it's so hurtful and so harmful and so damaging. And yeah, I don't like that we're in a climate where the only real recourse folks have when this happens to them is to sue. But people shouldn't be allowed to do this. It's so harmful and so damaging. And I hate that we have an Internet landscape that rewards it because nothing gets engagement and clicks like someone getting on TikTok and saying absolute nonsense about a tragedy that happened to people they don't even know. Just a quick heads up. This segment talks about Nicki Minaj and her hard right wing pivot. Oh, we're talking about it. Nicki Minaj. I'll just say it. Don't. I mean, I used to like her there. It's like the. I. We did an episode about Nicki Minaj and the Barbs and let me tell you, there have only been a few, a handful of times in my career where I have been worried about being critical about somebody. One was Oprah. When I did the epic behind the Bastards, like six part series on whether or not Oprah Winfrey is a bastard. Probably one of the pinnacles of my career, to be honest with you. I genuinely was checking my email and I don't check my physical mailbox. Hardly ever. I was checking my, my mailbox. I was so sure I had a cease and desist coming. I was like living in fear. The only other person that I have felt that way about is Nicki Minaj because the Barbs. I don't want it with the Barbs. I had a little bit of it from the Barbs. I don't want it from the Barbs. But so she has done this kind of hard right wing pivot. I have lots of reasons for why I think that is. They're not really appropriate for this episode. I have, I think there are some specific reasons. Regarding Nicki Minaj is married to a convicted pedophile who is on a sex registry list for crimes against minors. Those are just two facts about Nicki Minaj, you know, when people have hardships and need money and access, they do. They do things. They do things. Also, side note, let it be known how quick a bum man will ruin your life. You could go from being the top, the pinnacle of culture, so relevant, putting out hits and hits and hits to seeing yourself on stage with J.D. vance and Donald Trump real quick. Let that be a lesson to you, like a bum man. And your association with a bum man can ruin your life real quick. So Nicki Minaj, hard right wing pivot. She appeared on stage with Trump at the Trump account summit in D.C. back in January where she spoke in favor of Trump and his policies. She's been sharing these very weird, obviously AI generated pictures of her with Trump, I guess to be like, oh, Trump and I were so buddy, buddy now. Well, now we have a little more insight into how all of this is playing out online. From a piece in Politico that outlined a new report. It's kind of similar to the conversations that we had around bots and how they can be used to amplify narratives online. We talked to the authors of a report about Taylor Swift and bots, but this new report, compiled by the disinformation detection company Cybra, identifies a coordinated network of bots. More than 18,000 of them are driving algorithms to spread Nicki Minaj's right wing posts on X. We've actually been in touch with cyber about something else, Black fatigue. If you ever see the comment Black fatigue on TikTok, they have a very interesting report about that. So hopefully at some point soon you will hear from them on the podcast. But as we learned about in our episode about Taylor Swift and bots, it really matters who is commissioning a report. And per Politico, the Sai Abra report was commissioned by a person who was granted anonymity because they fear public retribution. Y', all. I'm dying to know who that person is.
- [73:49]
Mike
Yeah, so curious. It was, is, has Nicki Minaj, is she one of these like online right wing people who, who target specific people? Like, are there people that she is taking down like Candace Owens style? Or is her content more just like Trump is so great and I love Trump.
- [74:10]
Bridget Todd
She. That's a very good question and the answer is pretty nuanced. It's sick how much I follow her social media. The answer is sort of both. She is someone who has a lot of personal disputes and beefs. She actually, I'm so glad you asked because she actually just published a beef list or an enemies list just like a week ago.
- [74:32]
Mike
It's such a flex to not only have an enemies list, but to publish it. Be like, I want everyone to know.
- [74:39]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I wonder, could it be one of her many beefs? Who commissioned that report? Could it be Cardi B or Meg Thee stallion? Imagine that you're working as a disinformation researcher and Cardi B calls you and is like, I needed to put together a report on Nicki Minaj's social media. That would be the greatest day of my life. I don't know that I'd be able to keep it anonymous. I kind of have to tell people. Okay.
- [75:05]
Mike
So.
- [75:05]
Bridget Todd
The report found that inauthentic accounts repeatedly amplified Nicki Minaj's post with praise that used, quote, highly similar language, particularly in response to posts where authentic accounts were criticizing Minaj. Quote, supportive comments generated by fake profiles were predominantly brief, repetitive, and low in semantic complexity, consisting largely of praising keywords and positive hashtags rather than original or substantive engagement. The report found other inauthentic activity surrounding Minaj included longer, more detailed comments designed to appear organic. Cyber identified one day, December 26, when fake profiles made up 56% of all comments on political posts made by Nicki Minaj. The founders of Cyber said, we don't really see a lot of high volume, high impact orchestration of bad and fake actors within that intersection of geopolitically driven and music culture. It is scarce in our field to see the combination of the bad and the fake online world with the entertainment world. So some of the comments on social media that they deem to be fake say things like, nikki, you are brave for living your truth. People might not always agree with what's being played out, but as an artist and watching your growth as a person is inspiring. And this came from user lax76283656, which I feel is like a little bit of a giveaway. Yeah, they couldn't have made the name sound like, I don't know, but like Barb's. Maybe Barb's underscore and then the number, but like a shorter number.
- [76:44]
Mike
Something like try a little bit or just like some words. Not just a string of letters and numbers. I mean, I guess they, I think they use the people who are running these bot networks. I think they like reuse them across different campaigns. So I, I can understand why it wouldn't be like Barb Lover 69 or whatever.
- [77:09]
Bridget Todd
Yeah.
- [77:10]
Mike
But like, you gotta do better than just a string of letters and numbers.
- [77:16]
Bridget Todd
Yeah.
- [77:18]
Mike
Talk about low and semantic complexity.
- [77:20]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. Seriously. Something that we learned from the folks who put together the Taylor Swift bot report is that it's not just the bots operating in a silo. The point is to integrate into genuine, authentic conversations to increase credibility and visibility. And that's exactly what the the people who wrote this report about Nicki Minaj's online content also saw. Interestingly, the report also says that Nikki is taking advantage of how algorithms boost toxic content. This is from Politico. When accounts boosting Minaj posted content that researchers identified as toxic, the algorithm drove her posts even further. Companies like Cyber determine toxicity by assessing not just the positive or negative words used in a post, but the apparent intent behind them. Personal attacks, slurs, threats or comments that seem designed to deter a reasonable person from engaging in conversation are typically considered toxic. When the conversation is limited to toxic content, a substantially stronger amplification effect emerges. These accounts predominantly amplify content produced by Nicki Minaj and Turning Points usa, indicating a notable overlap between the two. Within this discourse, several of the accounts involved had previously been identified as exhibiting fake campaign like behavior in the context of Minaj's online activity within and relating to the music industry. So basically, unfortunately, as we always see on social media, the way the toxicity is part of why this content is amplified across platforms. And it doesn't surprise me that they were looking at X where Minaj is increasingly more prevalent. I think that at least temporarily, she deleted her Instagram account after the whole kind of right wing pivot with Trump. Even though Nicki Minaj has been like this for a long time. Like I'm fascinated by her, but like this didn't come out of nowhere. This has been. If you've been paying attention to Nicki Minaj, this is not surprising that this is kind of what she's doing now. But X, it doesn't surprise me that that is where she's really spending a lot of her time. That's what this report is focused on because it's just a platform where the shit rises. I don't know if you've spent any time on X recently, but I go there like once every three months to weeks. Too late. Retweet. When somebody tags me in something like a, like a podcast appearance or a guest spot I did, I'm like, oh, I will never see it. But anytime I'm there, it's just the worst of the worst of the worst nonsense. And it's not just down at the bottom, it's amplified. So it doesn't surprise me that Nicki Minaj is taking advantage of the fact that Toxicity and slurs and threats. That's what plays on X. So that's why she's on X and that's why the bots are on X. Amplifying her Trump stuff.
- [80:13]
Mike
Yeah, like that. I have the same experience with X. Like one once every couple months, I'll like be reading an article that links to a tweet or, or an X or whatever they call them now. And, and I'll go there and just immediately. It's such garbage. Like that seems to be what it's for is like toxicity and hate and, and also just nonsense though. Like it's.
- [80:39]
Bridget Todd
If it's.
- [80:40]
Mike
If content, there seems to be either like hateful or just like really dumb. Like the least informed takes I've read anywhere on the Internet.
- [80:52]
Bridget Todd
Yes, I could not agree with you more. I have seen the exact same thing. It's not all just bots, though. And this is usually the hallmark of these inauthentic campaigns is that they're kind of. It's some bots and inauthentic accounts and then a string of authentic accounts from real people that are also in the mix. So these are accounts by folks like Matt Wallace or other conservative figures who sort of layer in and authentically amplify inauthentic narratives by engaging with it. As one of the authors of the report said, real human beings are behaving the exact same way, utilizing the exact same behavioral patterns as you would expect from a well coordinated campaign. They amplify each other. They are riding the same similar wave of narratives. So Nicki Minaj obviously did not reply to Politico's request for comment. But Alan Brucewitz, a media and political advisor to Trump who considers Nikki a, quote, very close friend, did tell Politico that he was confident that there are no bots involved with Nicki Minaj's social presence. Nicki has never used bot activity to promote herself on social media because she doesn't need to. She has one of the largest fan bases of any musician that's alive today. How would they know this? Why would a staffer for the Trump administration know whether or not Nicki Minaj has ever used bot act bot accounts? And it might not even be like, I, if you ask me, Nicki Minaj is absolutely doing this. She is. She is using bot accounts. But it might not even be Nikki. There's. There have definitely been reports where someone else is coordinating bot accounts on someone else's behalf. So how could this person definitively say, oh, there is. Nicki Minaj is the one public figure in the history of the Internet, where there is absolutely zero bot or inauthentic activity surrounding conversation about her period. How would they know that?
- [82:47]
Mike
Yeah, I mean, maybe he knows because he's. Maybe it's him. Maybe he's paying for the bots. He's like, oh, yeah, Nikki's not using the bots.
- [82:55]
Bridget Todd
I am.
- [82:56]
Mike
I am. I'm using the bots.
- [82:58]
Bridget Todd
What if he's using the bots and paid for the report? He's the anonymous source.
- [83:04]
Mike
Oh, wow. Because he is racked by guilt. Or he's just a chaos agent just. Just trying to layer on the smoke screen.
- [83:17]
Bridget Todd
Don't pour cold water on my conspiracy by making. By trying to make. Make sense. Well, it's been a rough Black History Month. From the Nicki Minaj thing, from the Sinners Baptist thing, and I guess this is our last episode of Black History Month. And I realized I didn't acknowledge it, nor did I receive your gift. By the way, I. I hope it's in the mail. You've got a few days left to give me my Black History Month gift.
- [83:43]
Mike
It's there. You just haven't found it yet. Yeah, I mailed it a long time ago. Maybe you should go check your mail.
- [83:48]
Bridget Todd
Okay, I'm gonna assume it's downstairs in my mailbox, and I'll get it after we tape. But I did want to share a cool post that I saw from Threads user unapologetically, Jackie, that I didn't know, which is that every time you drop a reaction gif, do you say gif or gif?
- [84:04]
Mike
I say gif.
- [84:05]
Bridget Todd
Oh, I say gif.
- [84:06]
Mike
Weird.
- [84:07]
Bridget Todd
Steve Wilhite, the creator of Graphics interchange format, or GIF, in 1987, says that the correct pronunciation is jif, with a soft g mimicking the peanut butter brand jif. While the hard G pronunciation is widely used, he Insisted in his 2013 Webby's Award speech that it's jif saying. He famously said, choosy programmers choose gif. That's actually pretty good.
- [84:34]
Mike
That is pretty good.
- [84:35]
Bridget Todd
In any event, every time you drop a GIF or gif, thank Lisa Jalopter.
- [84:41]
Mike
Or is it gillobter?
- [84:42]
Bridget Todd
Oh, hard g, soft G. We'll see. She helped engineer the animation tech that made GIFs. GIFs. Black women have been running Internet culture. Y' all just got here. And that's true. I love that. Lisa, if you're listening, thank you for your contributions to Internet culture. Every time I post a GIF of nene leakes reacting to something, I will think of you. Also very Quickly. I wanted to say thank you to everybody who left very kind comments about the book. Thank you to those of you who have sent in your book pre orders if you missed it. Mike and I have an audiobook coming out about intimacy and AI called Love at First Prompt. It is available for pre order now. You can go to love@first prompt.com to pre order it. It would mean the world to me if y' all did that. But no pressure. If you pre order it and send us a screenshot of your pre order, you can email it, you can post it on social, whatever you want to do. We will send you. I will write you a hand, a handwritten thank you note one and we will send you a sticker if you already have a sticker, maybe a magnet. Well, we'll send you something cool. We love you so much. The reaction has been tremendous. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate it. If you want to be part of that, please pre order the book and we will send you something. We promise.
- [86:02]
Mike
Thanks for listening. Let us know what you thought about these stories. You can send us an email@helloangodi.com, leave us a comment on Spotify. We've been getting a lot of great comments on Spotify. It's fantastic. Thank you for leaving them. And you can follow Bridgette on social, BridgetMarieinDC on Instagram and TikTok. You can follow There Are no Girls on the Internet on YouTube and bluesky so hope to see you there and
- [86:27]
Bridget Todd
I will see you on the Internet. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach us@helloangodi.com youm can also find transcripts for today's episode@tangodi.com There are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. My Michael Amato is our contributing producer. Edited by Joey Pat I'm your host, Bridget Dodd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [87:17]
Julian Edelman
This is Julian Edelman from Games With Names. I want to take a second to talk about something that's personal to me. I've had the privilege of working closely with Robert Kraft for a long time, and one thing I've always respected is how seriously he takes up Standing up to Hate As a Jewish athlete, my identity is something I am proud of, but I also know what it feels like to be singled out for it. That's why this new commercial for the Blue Square Alliance Against Hate that aired during the big game really hit home. It's about showing up for someone when they're targeted, even if you don't have the perfect words. And sometimes standing next to someone is enough and you can show support by sharing the Blue Square.
- [88:03]
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- [88:32]
Matt Rogers
This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [88:35]
Bowen Yang
This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
- [88:38]
Matt Rogers
Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most?
- [88:43]
Bowen Yang
Because exc Xfinity WI fi can. And what if your WI fi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that too.
- [88:51]
Matt Rogers
What if your WI fi had parental instincts? Xfinity WI fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online.
- [88:58]
Bowen Yang
And finally, what if your wifi was like the smartest wifi?
- [89:02]
Matt Rogers
Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart it makes everything work better together.
- [89:07]
Bowen Yang
Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.
- [89:13]
Matt Rogers
Xfinity Imagine that.
- [89:15]
Mike
The Emmy winning comedy Scrubs is back. The beloved original cast, including Zach Braff, Donald Faison, Sarah Chalk, Judy Reyes and John C. McKinley scrubbed back in at
- [89:25]
Bridget Todd
Sacred Heart Hospital for all new hilarious and heartfelt stories.
- [89:29]
Mike
There's a healthy injection of colorful new characters as well, including a fresh group of newbie interns and co workers, nemeses Vanessa Baer and Joel Kim F. Booster the new season of scrubs Wednesdays at 8, 7 Central on ABC and stream on Hulu.
- [89:45]
Bridget Todd
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.