← There Are No Girls on the Internet
There Are No Girls on the Internet
Candace Owens sued by French President; Mehdi Hasan and Jubilee’s fascist “debate;” Trump’s grifty war on “Woke AI” – News Roundup (w/ Dope Labs’ Dr. Titi Shodiya)
01:14:15
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- [00:00]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human.
- [00:05]
Public Investing Advertisement Voice
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- [01:43]
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Dr. Titi Chaudia
Done.
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Commercial Announcer
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- [02:49]
Bridget Todd
There Are no Girls on the Internet. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are no Girls on the Internet. Welcome to episode of There Are no Girls on the Internet. This is another rendition of our weekly news roundup where we summarize all the stories on the Internet that you might have missed so you don't have to. And I cannot tell you how much of a fan I am of the person that we're. Whose presence we are graced with as this week's co host, Dr. Titi Chaudia, scientist, engineer, and co host of the fantastic Dope Labs podcast. Welcome to the show, Bridget.
- [03:31]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I have dreamed about this moment. I am so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.
- [03:36]
Bridget Todd
I mean, I'm such a big fan of what you're doing with Dope Labs. For folks who don't listen to the podcast, you should be listening. But give us a summary of what are you all doing at Dope Labs.
- [03:46]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
So at Dope Labs, I co host it with my. One of my best friends. Her name is Zakiya Watley. She also has a PhD. Hers is in genetics and genomics. Mine is in mechanical engineering and material science. And we show how science intersects with pop culture. So it's a really fun show that is rooted in our friendship because we've known each other since grad school. We bonded in the struggle, and we just take things that folks are talking about in their group chats, things that are tumbling down your timeline, and show that there's a little bit of science behind it all.
- [04:14]
Bridget Todd
I still remember the very first episode. It might have been the episode that.
- [04:17]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
The first.
- [04:17]
Bridget Todd
The first episode I heard. It might have been the first one you did about cuffing season.
- [04:21]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Oh, yes. I. I absolutely love that episode. And that was such a great introduction for us to. To the world, because it. I feel like it just encapsulated everything that we're about, you know, the science, the clownery, and, you know, talking to strangers and hearing all these really funny, amazing stories and talking about, you know, the ecology behind all of it. It's.
- [04:41]
Bridget Todd
It was really fun Science, clowning and Talking to strangers is like the hat trick of things that I enjoy.
- [04:48]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yes.
- [04:49]
Bridget Todd
And I want to. I mean, I'm excited that you're here for a million reasons, but one of the reasons is that you all just did a re. Your most recent episode was all about how folks should be thinking about AI in their own lives.
- [05:00]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
What was.
- [05:00]
Bridget Todd
What was. Give us a little bit, a little taste of that conversation.
- [05:03]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah, I think the reason why we wanted to talk about AI this was kind of like our second episode that we talk about AI we talked about the. The impacts and the cost of AI and then this most recent one, we kind of talked about how we can engage in AI in ways that make sense, that fit into our lives. And we don't have to feel, you know, bad about it because AI is coming whether we like it or not. And, you know, there are some things that are really, really bad about AI. I mean, there's things that are really, really bad about a lot of technology, but we just want people to arm themselves with knowledge so that as we move forward, because this is going to move forward with or without us, that we can, you know, step into our workspaces, we can step into the rest of the world and know one what is out there. Make a. And make an intelligent decision about whether or not we want to engage for whatever reason, whether it's, oh, I'm not going to upload photos of me and my kids and my family into an AI large language model, or, okay, this is how I'm going to engage with it. I'm only going to use this for work. I'm going to make sure that I toggle these certain things off so that you can use it in ways that you feel comfortable with and you don't feel like your privacy is being violated.
- [06:13]
Bridget Todd
And so much of what we do on this show is just sort of, I guess I'll for. For lack of a better phrase, arm people with the truth, arm people with the facts. And so I talk to people who are really skittish about using AI in any capacity. And, you know, I, I think, like, for folks who are like, I would never use AI, I would never use ChatGPT, I totally get it. But I want people to be able to make informed decisions and exactly have a sense of it. So not. So don't have a sense that is rooted in AI hype of like, it can do all of these things that it absolutely cannot do. Or it's a good. These use cases are great when they' actually good use cases.
- [06:48]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [06:49]
Bridget Todd
Similarly, don't fall into this trap of like, you need to be afraid of it. You, you can't use it.
- [06:53]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right? I mean, because the way that I always talk about AI is AI is a new technology. If you think back in the history of this world, every time a new technology came into the forefront, we. There was always this stage where people were terrified. When you think about mathematicians, when the abacus was invented, there was this whole big thing where it's like, you are not truly intelligent if you have to use an abacus. Fast forward. When the calculator first came out, everyone was saying, you should not be using a calculator. No one's going to know how to use their brains anymore. Then you have, you know, the advanced calculators, TI89s, we have computers and everything like that. Then the Internet comes and everybody's like, wow, no, this is not something we should be working with. And now the Internet is ubiquitous. It's everywhere. It's at our fingertips. And then we, then we had Google. And when Google first started, everyone was very, very confused and saying, it's just like this cycle with technology where it's like something comes out, there's an innovation. There are people who are like, don't use it. You should be scared. And then everybody realizes, oh, it's not that bad. We can live with this. And it actually is making our lives better. So it's just important to understand how these things work, understand how you can interact with them or not interact with them if you don't want to. I know some people who haven't used a TI89 calculator, and that is totally fine. That doesn't make them less smart or more smart or whatever. It's just, if you don't need it, don't use it.
- [08:21]
Bridget Todd
So I want to talk about the executive orders the Trump administration put out about AI, because I'm sure you have thoughts. I have thoughts. But before we jump into that, I just wanted to really quickly talk about this thing that I saw floating all over the Internet and that is this Jubilee Media. I guess they're calling it a debate, but I'm not even comfortable really using that word. Where this journalist, Mehdi Hasan, who is like a progressive journalist who I really like, respect. Do you know his work?
- [08:48]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yes, I do really respect him. Loved all of everything that he's put out until same.
- [08:54]
Bridget Todd
So this clip of him debating 20 far right conservatives went viral on Jubilee Media. For folks who don't know Jubilee Media, they started their founder, I looked into them. Their founder said that they Started because they, they were so fed up with how partisan politics had gotten and they wanted to create what he called the Disney Channel for empathy. That was a long time ago because basically what they're more known for now is platforming extremists. So, you know, the far right conservatives, quote unquote, that they had on the show that were debating Mehdi Hasan, they.
- [09:27]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Say things like, oh, I don't mind.
- [09:29]
Bridget Todd
Being called a Nazi and yes, I am a fascist and things like that. And it's really clever how this platform has been able to really normalize and launder these very extreme positions. Like aligning yourself like, like explicitly aligning yourself with Nazis is, is extreme to say the least, honestly. But then they phrase it as, oh, these are conservatives. I mean, I'm, I am not a conservative. I would not say that it's, it's fair to say, like, oh, somebody who aligns themselves with Nazis. That's merely a conservative perspective, right?
- [10:00]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
No, no.
- [10:01]
Bridget Todd
The viral moment that I want to talk about was this guy named Conor.
- [10:06]
Commercial Announcer
You're a little bit more than a far right Republican.
- [10:08]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Hey, what can I say?
- [10:09]
Commercial Announcer
I think you say I'm a fascist.
- [10:11]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I am. So basically Conor. And like, of course his name is Conor, proudly proclaims, yeah, that's right, I'm a fascist. So this interview goes viral and Connor, he goes on the crowdfunding platform, gives and Go and says, I lost my job, I'm trying to crowdfund $20,000. We actually talked about Give, Sit and Go on our first episode of the season, that it's kind of become the platform for people who have done something bad in public and then want a big payday from it. Our earlier episode was about this woman who called a black child a slur on a playground and, and raised almost a million dollars on Give, Sit and Go afterward. If you missed that episode, we will put it in the show notes. But that woman kind of became a right wing celebrity. And I think Connor from Jubilee is also on his way there too. He already raised quite a bit more than the $15,000 he was initially asking for. And so, you know, there's a lot to be said about Jubilee media and like, what they're doing. But I mean, I just, I, I wanted to talk about them briefly because I don't think this is going to be the last we see of Connor. Right.
- [11:21]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Like, no, it's definitely not going to be the last we see of him because you know how they say a watch pot never boils? It's like a watched fascist Never shuts the fuck up. You know what I mean?
- [11:34]
Bridget Todd
And that's the reason why T shirt please. It like, they will not shut up.
- [11:40]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And I'm just like, that's why I refuse to click on certain things. If I see the clip, I scroll past it. I don't want to contribute to any of those metrics because I feel like it's mostly, you know, people who are not conservative that are running up the numbers because we're so outraged, and so they're using outrage as currency. And I'm just like, no, I don't want to contribute to this guy's notoriety. I don't want to contribute to, you know, it being pushed more and more onto people's feeds. Like, we have to stop giving them a microphone. I'm so sick of it. Who else did that? It was. What was his name? Otto Acho or whatever, who had that show where he was talking to racists. I was like, this is the dumbest idea ever. Why not use that microphone to talk to somebody who actually has brains in their head and is willing to have smart conversations, not these really old, outdated conversations. If we stop giving these folks microphones and turning up the volume just so that we can get clicks, they will eventually shut up, and it will. They won't be able to give all of these other people out in the world who are looking for, you know, verbiage to use in their little racist conversations. They won't have anything to say. They will have nothing to have in their mouths to then regurgitate onto the rest of us.
- [12:53]
Bridget Todd
Exactly. And my thing about people like Connor is that if it wasn't for Jubilee Media giving him a platform, and he'd probably just be like typing his opinions on a Reddit thread, honestly, he would not be our problem. And giving him a microphone, giving him a platform, giving him a way to make a little bit of coin for himself, for the abhorrent views, I think really is the problem. And you put it so well. I do think this is. We're not in 2016 anymore. Right. There was a time where people wanted to talk about, like, oh, defeat the alt right in the marketplace of ideas. Just debate them. Debate them. No, in 2016, this style of debate content is a scam. It's not informing anybody.
- [13:33]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yes.
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Bridget Todd
Like, and I guess ultimately, I strongly feel like there is no debating people like, how do you debate somebody who with their full chest says, yes, I am a fascist? When you don't have a shared reality, there is no way to have a debate. And I think that we should stop acting like this is anything other than a spectacle and right wing star maker machine.
- [13:54]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You can't call it a debate because it's, you're not talking to somebody reasonable. You know, you have to have reason, you have to have something. You have to have intelligent thought in order to have a debate with someone. You can't just say, I'm a fascist and, and cross your arms and say, yeah, that's what it is, that's what it is. That's not someone that you can debate. That is just a, that is, it's like talking to a brick wall. Honestly. Like that's not, they don't have any. Because they will, what they will try and do is make you become the intellectual and they, you, they will, you will have to intellectualize their fascism. There is no intellectual roots to racism and fascism. There's nothing intellectual about it. But this whole conversation that, that folks are having around all of this because we keep giving these people microphones is intellectualizing something that is at its core not intellectual.
- [14:50]
Bridget Todd
Exactly. And the way that you put that makes it so clear that like if you say like when, like when Black Lives Matter in the, in the height of the Black Lives Matter movement, there was a lot of that debate style content and it's like, how do I debate somebody who doesn't feel that I deserve rights? How do I debate somebody that doesn't think I'm human? Like what, like, what can I say that would be like, oh, you got me. We're not having that. We're not speaking the same language at a certain point.
- [15:13]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right. And there's no conversation to be had.
- [15:16]
Public Investing Advertisement Voice
Period.
- [15:16]
Bridget Todd
Exactly. And I mean, I definitely have gotten offers from not, not from a jubilee, but from similar platforms that are like, oh, come on. And then you can be the sort of like progressive voice or the feminist voice. And I just don't think in 2025 any serious person ought to be participating in this. Like, I already, it doesn't matter. I could, I could go on those platforms and, and make the most well formed argument. But I still know regardless, it's going to be, you know, conservative Republican takes down feminists, like, because that's really what they're after. Right. They're not after any kind of like actual moment of clarity or empathy or understanding each other. It's just a ridge debate with a foregone conclusion.
- [16:00]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right. And even if you go in there and you cut them up to shreds, they're going to clip it up so that it looks like you got tongue tied. Like you were stumped. And no, you're not gonna let me fall victim to the editing. This is not love and hip hop, okay? This is not love island. You're not gonna have me looking like a fool just because you wanted to clip me up and now I'm looking crazy.
- [16:21]
Bridget Todd
Yes, exactly. Let's take a quick break.
- [16:33]
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- [17:43]
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- [19:19]
Bridget Todd
And we're. Okay Titi, we have to talk about somebody who I am a little bit. I have a weird obsession with. Maybe obsession is the wrong word. Okay, that is Candace Owens. I have people who listen to the show. I have described her as my shadow self because I feel that she's almost like a fun house mirror version of myself. I know that sounds wild, but we did an episode about her rise that I see so much of myself in her early days, we were both, you know, people who like to talk about politics. On the early days of the Internet. She back in the day when we were both doing this at the same time, she was actually a progressive voice and she had a very specific switch where she went into some of her more like noxious extremist views. So she also is somebody who I think is prone to hyper fixation, which I also am. Although her hyper fixations are very different than mine. Hers are things like Blake Lively is lying about everything, or Harvey Weinstein is actually a victim, the victim of MeToo. And one of her most recent hyper fixations has been the first lady of France, Brigitte Macron, the wife of the French president Emmanuel Macron. Owens has spent months, months building out this increasingly elaborate, completely unfounded conspiracy that the first lady of France is trans. She doesn't, before you ask, she has no proof of this. This is just something she's like. It's like she initially started calling it a gut feeling and it's so fucked up because initially she, it was like clear, like she basically has never had any proof. And she's gone from being like, this is a gut feeling. I have to. I have the proof of this. I have the receipts. And so I have quietly been wondering where this all ends for her for a while. And we may have our answer because this week the French president and his wife filed a defamation lawsuit in the US Against Owens, centered on her claim that the first lady is Trans. So they filed this complaint in the Delaware Superior Court saying that Owens has waged a lie filled campaign of global humiliation to promote her podcast and expand her frenzied fan base. As somebody who keeps tabs on what she's up to, I wholeheartedly agree with how they're characterizing this, because I've honestly seen. I won't call it misreporting, but I've seen it reported, like, as if Candace Owens just said this at a party or something, that she just casually said this once or twice. And that's actually not what's going on. In reality, she has made multiple podcasts and videos claiming to have found smoking guns and claiming to have all this evidence. Like, she's got like a string board and she's connecting the dots on, on this claim that she's made, like, very concrete claims. And she's gotten millions of viewers, which translates to cash, to her for this lie. So it's not like she's just like saying this and they're coming after her for saying this, like casually once or twice, as I feel like some of the reporting suggests, she has really monetized this unfounded lie and built it into a whole conspiracy theory with her millions of viewers.
- [22:33]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah, I mean, that's the bread and butter for folks like Candace Owens, because what their base fails to grasp onto is fact. And so then they have to think very, very like dark meta. Yeah, you know what I mean? Where it's like, no, no, no. Y' all are so blinded by facts that you're missing all of this mystery and nothing over here. And it's like, that's how she. That's how she makes her money. She just makes something up and then runs with it. And it's like, oh, but look at this. Oh, why does she cross her legs like this? Instead of like, it's ridiculous. It's honestly ridiculous. And anytime somebody is doing something like this, I'm always just like, this is Olympic level, like, jumping. Like, you're going from one thing, you're doing an absolute triple jump. You gold medalist in this. In this jump that you're doing, trying to get to whatever conclusion. And the other part of it that I'm. Which is my issue with everyone that has issue with transgender folks. Why do we care? Right? Like, I'm just like. And if. And if she is like, why do you care who doing the bending?
- [23:51]
Bridget Todd
Right. Who cares?
- [23:52]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I'm not worried about what Matt Crawlin is doing with his partner, his wife. I don't care what they do in their bedroom. I care about his policy. How is that going to affect his people, the folks in the United States, the world? I don't. I don't even know what his wife looks like. Like, the fact that she's putting so much energy into this, I'm like, Candace, girlfriend. Now imagine if you put this same level of intensity into anything else. Yes, you would be able to do anything. You could take over this world, but you choose to hyper focus on these really ridiculous things. I'm like, use your powers for good, not evil. And don't get yourself in prison or sued to the point where you can't even afford a microphone because you want to do this. It's crazy.
- [24:39]
Bridget Todd
You put it so perfectly. The way that she has picked apart every little iteration of their appearance, their marriage, their friends, their family, their personal history. The way that, the way that Brigitte's hair will fall, like, oh, well, that's a telltale. So I'm like, like, she's dead. And then sometimes it'll be like the absence of evidence is what the evidence is. It's like, well, if she wasn't, if she wasn't actually trans, don't you think? Like, it's.
- [25:06]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Oh my God.
- [25:07]
Bridget Todd
Like, it is such a rabbit hole. And keep in mind that Brigitte and Emmanuel Macron, they've been in a romantic relationship since, for, for a very long time. Like, their relationship is its own weird thing. Like, they met when Brigitte was a, a teacher at his school when he was 15 and she was in her, her 30s. They met in drama club at a school that, like, he was a student and, and she was a teacher. And so like, now that's the.
- [25:38]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I know.
- [25:38]
Bridget Todd
I mean, like, exactly. So like, they're actually.
- [25:42]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You focus on the wrong thing.
- [25:43]
Bridget Todd
A thing a thousand percent. There actually is stuff where it's like, well, who to talk about how weird their marriage is? That's right there. Like, that's like, legitimately we should be.
- [25:51]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Talking about, like, girl, you focus on the wrong thing. Like, talk about the real stuff. I did not know that. Now side eyeing the whole thing.
- [25:59]
Bridget Todd
If you wanted to make podcast episodes about them, there's a lot to say that is a fertile ground for discussion. And so you don't actually need to make up these completely unfounded planes.
- [26:09]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah.
- [26:09]
Bridget Todd
So Owens responded to the lawsuit. She says, this lawsuit is littered with factual inaccuracies and part of an obvious and desperate public relations strategy to smear my character. And my question is this. Why would the president of France want to smear this Random American podcaster. Other than the fact that she keeps telling these outlandish lies about her. Like, like, like why, why he's busy doing French president stuff. You think that he would want to, like, target you like a random right wing podcaster? Absolutely not.
- [26:41]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right? It's, it's really ridiculous. And I, I also saw that she said something like, oh, you're just suing me so you can have it on record that you sued me, but I'll see you in court. Girl, this ain't what you want.
- [26:53]
Bridget Todd
No, ain't what you want is not.
- [26:56]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Because the court is not gonna, is not gonna say, oh, you have to prove that you are biologically female. They're not gonna do that. They're gonna say that you have no reason to believe that you, it is baseless. And so, so you're in trouble. And sister, those dollars ain't set up the right way, especially now that you haven't always been aligning yourself with everything that Trump's doing. So I feel like you've lost a little bit of your base. They not going to save you, sister. They not going to save you in this instance. You're just going to be broke.
- [27:29]
Bridget Todd
Okay, yeah, this is a mistake. And it is something that, we've talked about this on the show, but it's, I think it's something that we've seen more and more of where someone often, like an extremist will go on a smear campaign and the only recourse is suing them for defamation. And we've seen it work.
- [27:45]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
So I, it's the business model now.
- [27:48]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, it is. It kind of is. And like, I, I, I mean, it's, it sounds like from reading the lawsuit that they're like, we gave her ample opportunity to just stop this. Like, we were, like, we wouldn't. And so I do think, like, they would not have pursued this if they did not feel like they had to. And I think the fact that she has shown no signs of planning on reversing course on this and just shutting up and saving herself the trouble makes me think that they're, that that's true. They had to do this.
- [28:17]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Listen, if I had that level of intensity about anything, I just want to bottle what she has and use it in the right ways. You're wasting your energy, girl. My God, I was going to say get you somebody who is so fixated on you like that, but you don't want that type of fixation.
- [28:35]
Bridget Todd
That's too much stalking stalk to that. Okay, so should we talk about Trump's Woke AI executive orders.
- [28:46]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yes.
- [28:47]
Bridget Todd
I mean, it would be wild to do a podcast episode and not. So let's just get into it. So Trump signed three AI focused executive orders on Wednesday aimed at keeping woke AI models. That's his word out of Washington. And hopefully this idea of turning America into an AI export powerhouse. So there are three executive orders on this. I will quickly summarize two of them, and I want to focus on one of them kind of exclusively. But I'll give you the sense of, like, what's going on with everything so perfect. One is called Promoting the Export of the American AI Technology Stack, which aims to support the export of American developed AI systems. Its main mechanism seems seem to be financing support for American AI companies to facilitate them and licensing them to allied nations. It honestly is pretty light on specifics, which, like, surprise, surprise, an EO is like, pretty light on specifics out of this administration. Who could have thought? But the goal, the stated goal anyway, is to establish the US as like, the leader, the global leader in AI.
- [29:52]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [29:52]
Bridget Todd
I will say, like, to me, it really does seem like it's a good opportunity for American tax dollars to subsidize big tech companies even further, particularly those companies that the Trump administration favors. Like, I'm no expert in this, but. But reading what they put out, I was like, oh, this just seems like a big gift to Trump tech cronies. So that's something to know. The next EO is called Accelerating Federal Permitting of Data Center Infrastructure, which exclusively focuses on building new large data center projects, those requiring at least 100 megawatts of power. So I am not a scientist or an engineer, so you can let me know if I have this right. I did a little bit of research, and it does seem like 100 megawatts is what you might think of as, like, at the larger end of what is normal for a data center.
- [30:42]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Is that.
- [30:42]
Bridget Todd
Do you have any sense of that?
- [30:44]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I think so, yeah. Okay.
- [30:45]
Bridget Todd
And the. This executive order calls on agencies to remove environmental regulatory hurdles so that the negative impacts of the environment or water resources are not a barrier to what everybody wants, which is the construction of new large data centers, which. Okay. I mean, there are literally people who do not have water in their households because of data centers. There are communities like the neighborhood in Tennessee where Elon Musk built a massive data center who no longer have clean air.
- [31:14]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [31:15]
Bridget Todd
This executive order basically is like, fuck them, Bo Be fine. We need this technology.
- [31:20]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah. And it's. In my opinion, it's a ruse because it's like it's not really about the technology. It's about the people who are going to be making money from building these data centers and expanding their, their empires. It's really not about. And, and that's what I also want people to understand about like AI and these technologies that are coming down the pike. It's like the, the reason why the government is so hyper focused on it. Anytime the government is doing all of this or you have a, is like just so laser focused on something, you have to start really thinking, where is the money going? That should always be the first question. Because if you're thinking about the greater good of America and how do we make ourselves more technologically advanced and all these things like that, you would invest in education first and foremost. You would make sure that people, that everybody in the, like, everybody that is coming up in the US Education system understands how to code, that they understand like how a semiconductor chip works, that they know how these models work. We're not doing that, we're not investing in education. They're like, build the things. And that's because when you build the things and you start to make product, you can sell it all over the world. That means people are making money. And so I'm just like all of these executive orders, all of these, it's just a formal way of lining their own pockets. Because Trump, he's thinking, after this presidency is over, I need to make sure that I'm setting things up so I make the most amount of money possible and make my rich friends happy so that just in case I need them, you know, they can, you know, slip me a little, little something something. And so that's always what I think about. I'm like, it doesn't make sense for you to say we want to be leaders in technology but not investing in education. Who gon do it? Who's going to do it? Who's going to advance us if we are not making sure that college is affordable, that, that K through 12 schools, that they have the resources that they need, that teachers are being paid in a, that teachers being paid the amount that a living wage that they can go to these schools and be able to arm these children with knowledge training teachers, like making sure that defunding academic institutions like Harvard and all these things like that. It doesn't, those two things don't go together. You can't say we need to be the leaders in this technology, but then also Department of Education, you're going to the dumps.
- [33:50]
Bridget Todd
And I think we're doing exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. It's like this administration has clocked that an educated, critical, upwardly mobile citizenry is not, is not going to be conducive to the way that they're trying to do business. I think, I think all of, all of the way that they're moving tells me that, that that's what they've deduced.
- [34:10]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yes, absolutely. That's exactly it. I feel like you hit the nail right on the head.
- [34:18]
Bridget Todd
More after a quick break.
- [34:24]
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- [35:34]
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- [36:04]
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- [36:36]
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- [37:10]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. So let's talk about the woke AI bit of this. That's not, I mean, I don't even know.
- [37:22]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I don't understand what that is. Same.
- [37:23]
Bridget Todd
And so here's the thing. When I was seeing woke AI everywhere in all the headlines, I was like, well certainly this is like they're extrapolating or they're using that as a stand in. No, that is actually the name of the executive order. The executive order was called the Preventing Woke AI in the federal government. When I tell you that I would pay good money to have Trump like sit down and explain to me, like, what do you, when you say hi, what do you mean? Give me some specifics.
- [37:54]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And he probably couldn't.
- [37:57]
Bridget Todd
No, he probably couldn't.
- [37:58]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Because I think it's just like anything, any AI that would say anything negative about him and his administration, basically.
- [38:07]
Bridget Todd
That's basically it.
- [38:08]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah. And so now we're talking about another hit to freedom of speech and, and things like that. And when people are thinking about A.I.
- [38:18]
Bridget Todd
They'Re like, oh well, A.I.
- [38:19]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Is not a human. It's not. A.I. is not built from nothing. It. The way that A.I. works is that it takes, it crawls the entire Internet and grabs everything that's out there, every single corner, every single piece of the Internet. That is what it's working from. So if he's saying, I don't want AI to use to, to have anything in it that says these specific things. That's basically putting a blackout on parts of the Internet when it comes to AI, AI people think of AI as like this robot that's just super fast as at learning. And I'm like, to learn something, things have to exist. And so like, yes, there are issues with, you know, creativity and using people's image and likeness. Yes, I get all of that, but when we're talking about censoring AI, you're. He's censoring us. He's censoring the people. And that's what people need to understand. It's like, oh, yeah, sure. Woke AI. No Woke AI. That is words, that is images, that is. Are that there that the AI is learning from that will not be used. So it's the same thing as burning down a library or a whole section of a library. It's the same thing as taking away access to certain parts of the Internet, like they do in China. You know, they. They don't allow them to have things like TikTok. And they like the way that their Internet works is not the way our Internet works. And that's essentially what he's trying to do. And we have to really keep our eyes open because you can come up with a lot of, like, fancy White House legal ways, legal, quote unquote, to censor whole populations of people.
- [40:10]
Bridget Todd
I. I mean, I had never even thought about it that way, but that is something. That's a drum that we beat a lot on the show. That AI is people. Right. It's built by people, trained by people. It's not, you know, it's not a computer brain or something.
- [40:23]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [40:24]
Bridget Todd
And so what you're saying is that this sort of preventing woke AI executive order, that's like, no, AI must not have anything. That must not have any kind of, quote, ideological agenda. That's just another way of censoring the Internet and ultimately censoring us human exact. People. Expression. Exactly.
- [40:42]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Because if I'm. If I'm using the Internet and I'm creating blog posts that. I'm talking about my experience as a black woman in stem, My experience as a black woman in America. And I'm saying I feel like this certain legislation is not right or that I feel like I'm being disenfranchised and all these things like that. The AI models will not be able to pull from my blog in order to answer someone's question. That might be like in 2025, what was it like to live in America for a black woman? Mm. I'm silenced. It's quiet. Everybody on mute. And that's dangerous because you essentially can rewrite history. Imagine if we could go into every single library, take books and just rip out whole sections and say, nope, that didn't happen. That is what is happening. That's what the technology is. The Internet is something that we've has. Is boundless but there is absolutely the ability to, to censor, and we have to really be careful because these are the stories. These are the. These are the stories that tell what history was, our experiences. People might, you know, poo poo doing a blog or, you know, vlogging your life. These are archives that people 100 years.
- [42:01]
Bridget Todd
From now will watch.
- [42:02]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Like when we see videos from those old black and white videos that they restore, and we're like, wow, look at.
- [42:08]
Bridget Todd
Those people walking around.
- [42:09]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Oh, my goodness, that's so cool. Are you trying to tell me that we will. That our whole experience as black women won't be there? We won't.
- [42:18]
Bridget Todd
Like, your podcast won't be.
- [42:19]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
My podcast won't be there. Like, images of, of us at marches, images of our family, like, having, like, having community won't be there because they might say, oh, that's woke. Black family reunions is too woke for, for the Internet. We really have to be careful. We really have to, like, sit up and take notice of these, of these ways that we're also being censored and that they're trying to rewrite history and silence us. Because if they silence us in this technology, we're in a really dangerous spot for the history being told. And as we know, history always repeats itself, and especially if that, that narrative is not there. I mean, look at how long we went. I feel like how long America went with Native Americans and understanding the history and the plight of Native Americans, like the indigenous people of America. It's. They should want it back in blood. Honestly, it's really sick that we have, you know, sports teams that are like, the chiefs, the, the Indians, like, they should want it back in blood. And that's what happens. That's what will happen to whole populations. And some people who are a part of Trump's base might be like, oh, well, I don't care, because that isn't me. It's going to be you, too. You live in Appalachia and you think that they want to hear about your struggles. No, they don't want to hear about your struggles either. They don't want to hear that you can't afford to pay to get groceries for your family this week. You want food stamps. They don't want to hear that either. That's woke. We're all in danger. We are in danger, and we really need to take notice.
- [44:00]
Bridget Todd
I mean, I, I completely agree. You put that so well. And I do think when you look at the, the words and this executive order under the, like, with the lens that you just laid out, it's clear that's exactly what they're doing. They're right. They're right. They're carving out any part of the experience of being a human that they don't align with and don't like. And what I find so up is that it relies on this idea that there is sort of one objective truth. And who gets to decide that? The Trump administration. So exactly. The truth of like even if you're a white person in Appalachia who can't afford groceries, the truth that the Trump administration wants to give is that groceries have never been cheaper and everybody is prosperous. So that's. So get that right out of there. And yeah, I mean the way that they, in this executive order, they basically spell out that we get to decide what is and is not objective, what is it is not truth, what is it is not. They've come up with this term that they basically just invented out of whole cloth unbiased AI principles. And essentially that means that they are only supporting AI models that meet this term of unbiased that they have just decided themselves.
- [45:17]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah, the, the, when you talk about anything that is man made and saying that it is unbiased, it's just not possible. There was a study done a while ago, I don't, I don't remember what year it was, but they had an AI model crawl the entire Internet and basically create a personality based on what the they found on the Internet. And that model was racist, it was sexist and it was xenophobic and like that's just based off of what's on the Internet. And so it started out with nothing and then said, they said build from here, just crawl the Internet, read as much as you can. And it crawled the entire Internet and that's what the result was. Everything that is man made is biased. Everything. Like the term biased. I think people always think of it in one direction. If I were to make something, it's going to be biased. You know, if I make something for, if I make a product that I use for my hair. Well, my hair is very specific type. Okay. I have Afro hair that I love and that product is going to work in my hair. Now you go next door to them white folks, they might not enjoy that product because I made it and it was biased. Absolutely, absolutely. And so this whole idea of something being unbiased, it, it is just again a ruse. Like it's just not possible. Anything made by man is biased. You now you can, you can go to great lengths to make sure that lots of biases are represented in the making of a product. So if I again, if I'm using that same example, let's say I want to make a hair product. I can say, okay, I'm going to go talk to to my my one of my best friends who's from the Dominican Republic. I'm going to talk to another one of my best friends who's black but has a really loose curl pattern. I'm going to talk to one of my friends who is white. I'm going to talk to one of my friends who has alopecia and figure out like what are you looking for in product? That is a way to take a lot of biases into into account when you're creating something. But to say something has no bias. It it almost does not make sense to to me at all.
- [47:39]
Bridget Todd
More after a quick break.
- [47:44]
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- [48:54]
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To start a business? You might think you need a team of people and fancy tech skills, but you don't. You just need Godaddy Arrow I'm Walton Goggins and as an actor, I'm an expert in looking like I know what I'm doing even when I don't. And I like the sound of starting my own business. Walton Goggins Goggle Glasses. But I'm an actor. I don't know what I'm doing. I needed help. Godaddy Arrow uses AI to create everything you need to grow a business. It'll make you a unique logo, it'll create a custom website, it'll write social posts for you and even set you up with a social media calendar. I didn't even realize I needed a social media calendar. GoDaddy Arrow will take your idea. That sounds good. And make a business that looks like you know what you're doing. GoDaddy Arrow can get your business up and running in minutes. You know what that sounds like? It sounds like a plan. Get started@godaddy.com aero that's godaddy.com airo hi.
- [49:49]
Angie Hicks (Angie Advertisement)
I'm Angie Hicks, co founder of Angie and one thing I've learned is that you buy a house, but you make it a home. Because with every fix, update and renovation, it becomes a little more your own. So you need all your jobs done well. For nearly 30 years, Angie has helped millions of homeowners hire skilled pros for the projects that matter, from plumbing to electrical roof repair to deck upgrades. So leave it to the pros who will get your jobs done well. Hire high quality pros@angie.com ready to change your life.
- [50:21]
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- [50:54]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. And I think one of the most frustrating things about this EO is that it specifically names that it does not want any kind of quote DEI in the. In. In AI, which already it's like, I mean, I hate when Trump kind of makes me think through the logic of the things they put out. I'm like, what do they mean by that?
- [51:17]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Exactly.
- [51:18]
Bridget Todd
But in the real world, having more voices at the table, having a diversity of folks educated on AI, working in AI, building models, training models, all of that, that can only help us. Like that is, that is like one of the ways, one of the tools in our toolbox to combat bias in AI, AI that is harmful, AI that doesn't recognize us for the like multifaceted people that we are is having a plurality of people and perspectives at the table. And this executive order, it says, they say DEI and AI can lead to discriminatory outcomes distort and manipulate AI model outputs in regard to race and sex, incorporate concepts like critical race theory, transgenderism, unconscious bias, intersectionality and systemic racism. DEI displaces the commitment to truth in favor of preferred outcomes and as recent history illustrates, poses an existential threat to reliable AI. And that's what I think kills me is that we know AI can be biased, can be sexist, can be racist. All of this stuff, like, we know that because it's trained on us. And like humans, those are all pitfalls that humans unfortunately struggle with. And so this idea that, oh, the way that we make AI good is making sure that there, there's no even whiff of inclusion around AI. I mean, it's, it's, it's, I shouldn't even try to find any kind of logic in the things that they put out, but it doesn't, it just, it just doesn't make any sense. And I think when we're talking about something as critical as AI, that we're all having this big conversation about how AI is going to change all of our lives.
- [52:55]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [52:55]
Bridget Todd
You know, the fact that we, we're not having, like these are not serious people, we're not ha. There's a, there are serious conversations we can be having, but like in lieu of that, we're putting out nonsense that doesn't even make any fucking sense.
- [53:08]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Exactly. And that, I mean that just goes back to what I was saying earlier where it's just like they will try and make you intellectualize things that are at their core, not intellectual at all, it's just racist. Like when you think of the history of racism, there's this really brilliant researcher, her name is Angela Saini, who does a lot of research on race and the history of racism. And I learned so much from her books. But racism is not like race is a made up thing. We all know that. And racism was a science as at one point like the research that went into trying to prove that there was a more superior race. But then all of that research was racist and biased and not true, not rooted in anything that was true. And so I just feel like the more we don't call this what it is when we see makes it an intellectual conversation and it's truly not. And so then when, when people like you and I start to try and talk about it, it makes it really difficult because, and that's why it's hard to have conversations with people like that because you just, you don't even know what to say because it's just like if Someone says, I believe in unicorns, and you're like, have you ever seen one? No, but they're. They're real. It's like, okay, but you've seen horses, right? Yes, but unicorns are the best. Do you. Where. Where are they? Does it matter? You tell me where they are. What? These types of conversations just. They are fruitless. And so it's always just so frustrating. There's a quote from Maya Angelou that Zakiya says all the time when it comes to, like, talking to racists. And she says, somebody says, you have no language, and so you spend 20 years proving that you do. Somebody says, your head isn't shaped properly, so you have scientists working on the fact that it is. Someone says, you have no art, so you dredge that up. Somebody says, you have no kingdoms, and so you dredge that up. None of that is necessary. There will always be one more thing. We.
- [55:23]
Bridget Todd
I. That's a quote that I find a lot of wisdom in and I return to. And I guess that's my. My main point is the distraction of it all. And that's the thing is, like, from listening to your episode on the. On AI, Like, AI is. But there. There are lots of reasons to be critical of AI and skeptical of AI and absolutely talk about the ways that it's flawed and biased. I am right there. But when we are. When the dominant conversation that the president puts out is something that is such a distraction, it's such a, like, culture war, like, just stoking the flames of division when along the lines of something that is so important. I just really. I mean, there's not. I mean, I should be used to it from this administration by now, but I just think, what a miss. And it takes me back to. We did an episode with Dr. Joy Bulamwini, who was one of the people who worked on the Biden administration's executive order on A.I. right. That EO, it wasn't perfect, but it definitely was like, let's put a few garbage on this. Let's get a sense of, like, how this should be developed. Let's make sure that the voices who are talking about this and thinking about this are a little more diverse. The fact that we went from that, certainly not perfect, but someone who has some goddamn sense was talking fucking sense on the issue to this in just a few months. It really makes my head spin, honestly.
- [56:51]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And I think that that's part of the tactic is to make us so tired that we will just basically lie down and just be like, enough. I like, just let Whatever happen, happen. And so I think, like, we recently interviewed Chelsea Clinton on the show, and that was one of, like, her parting messages that she left with us. And we should not stop, because that's like, they're trying to disorient us. They're trying to fatigue us. They're trying to make us be quiet. And we should keep calling things out. We should keep researching and asking questions and asking hard questions and pushing our local lawmakers and our state lawmakers and the president and his cabinet and making sure that we don't let these, like, diversion tactics and these tactics that they're using to make us be quiet work. Because the first 30 days of this administration was just. Everything was just coming so fast and furious, and I was just like, oh, my gosh. Like, I was having to, like, in the morning, I would wake up and be like, maybe I should just not look at my phone for, like, an hour, have a cup of coffee, like, pretend like all is right in the world. But now I'm like, no, I need. Like, I might give myself a little bit of time, but I'm getting right back into it, because being on shows like this, talking about these things and putting more out there is so, so important. And that's why I absolutely love the work that you do, Bridget, because you shine a light in so many. On so many areas that I feel like people, they might not have the words, but they come to you to find the words, and you help them think through some of a lot of these things, that they might be, like, too tired to do the research on their own, or, like, feel like they. They aren't. Whatever. Smart enough to be able to get to the facts on their own. You create these safe spaces for people to find facts and to, you know, laugh a little bit, but also be like, okay, now I know what I gotta do. Because you come to every single episode with this certain energy that makes me be like, turn on my microphone. I'm ready to go. You're so inspirational to so many other podcasters out there. I know. I know that's not what we're talking about right now, but I just want to say, because it came to my mind how important you are to this space. You are not nobody. You are somebody to a lot of people. You are somebody to me. And like, you, I hope you never, ever, ever stop. Like, I've been following you for so long, and. And it's. What you do is amazing. I can only aspire.
- [59:33]
Bridget Todd
Gigi, I'm gonna cry.
- [59:37]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You're so important. You're so. So important to the culture.
- [59:40]
Bridget Todd
Feel the same way about what you do at dope labs. And I just. I think it's so important. I mean, how many people that listen to dope labs tell you, like, oh, it's so nice to have a show about science that makes me feel, like, included and seen and welcomed into the conversation.
- [59:56]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [59:56]
Bridget Todd
That, like, what you're doing, like, you do that so well. That's, like, what I want to do here on the podcast. Like, that's absolutely.
- [60:04]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
What you're doing.
- [60:05]
Bridget Todd
This. You've no idea. I mean, I'm. I'm gonna cry. I don't even know what.
- [60:09]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
No, you're. You are perfect. Like, honestly.
- [60:13]
Bridget Todd
Oh, my gosh. And it's. I mean, I think we. I think it just goes to show that we. For so long, I feel like when it comes to stem, whether you're doing a show about science or tech, like, it's just very easy for people to feel unseen and left out and that. And then when you feel unseen and left out, you're checked out. And so when the president goes on TV and is talking about something AI related, there is nobody who is. Who can hear the sound of my voice right now. There's nobody who's listening to this podcast who is not smarter than Trump. About. About. Full stop, end of sentence. But also, specifically, when it comes to tech and AI, if you listen to this podcast, you know more than him. End of sentence, full stop. I guarantee you.
- [60:53]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Absolutely.
- [60:54]
Bridget Todd
It's just this very. I just hate this culture that can be so alienating and can. Can prompt people to do exactly what you just talked about.
- [61:03]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Like, just check out.
- [61:04]
Bridget Todd
Be like, okay, well, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. I don't need to.
- [61:08]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I'm.
- [61:08]
Bridget Todd
I'm not gonna try to. I'm not gonna try to, like, arm myself with information. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna. What difference does it make?
- [61:15]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right?
- [61:15]
Bridget Todd
They're gonna pass executive orders. They're gonna sneak.
- [61:18]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Yeah.
- [61:18]
Bridget Todd
Hungary into the privacy policy. I'm going to use it anyway. Like.
- [61:21]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right.
- [61:21]
Bridget Todd
And I really want folks to feel a culture shift around that. That's like. No, you can arm yourself with information. You don't have to be afraid. You don't have to be. You know, you don't have to be trepidatious about. About being part of the conversation because this, the science and technology, it really does impact all of our lives.
- [61:37]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I know. And it's. It's so true. And it, like, that's one of the things that Zaki and I always try and do with the show is just trying to create a space where people don't feel like we're preaching to them, like we're learning. We are always learning with the people who are listening to our show. And it's so important for folks to know, like, the scientific process. And we go through the scientific process in every single episode. You do it here on your podcast as well. The amount of research that goes into it, that is the scientific method. And you get to a conclusion, and that is not you just pulling anything, you know, out of your head. You do a lot of research to get to the conclusions that you do. That is scientific. You are a scientist. You are a cultural scientist. And people need to start feeling empowered to be. To do that, to take the extra step, to do the research, ask an additional question, like, really not just read the headline, but read the full article, see what the sources are, see what that study was. Oh, they only talked to 10 people that night. Might not be enough to say, oh, 90% of people do this or do that. You probably need a larger sample size. Those are the things that you should be doing. And that's what we're trying to teach people. We don't want anybody to feel like, oh, I'm not smart enough or I can't do this, or that. We want to empower folks to ask those questions and know that there is no such thing as a silly question. And, you know, in some instances, like when we were talking about the vaccine back in 2020, like, we really sounded the alarm on why people are vaccine hesitant, why people of color are vaccine hesitant. And it's not because they're stupid. It's because it's rooted in real history, like medical history, where black folks were experimented on and sterilized and all these things like that. So the distrust of the medical community is not baseless. So there's a certain level of care you need to come. You need to come into those conversations with. Because, like, people of color are not just. Are not stupid. They're operating within the framework of our history in this country. And so when we talk about the vaccine, we say, listen, I get it, but these are the things that we know about vaccines. We break the vaccine down, we talk about the different elements of it and why they should. They should feel like they can trust it. You know, the creator of one of the vaccines is a black woman, and we talked to her. And so these are the things that we just try and arm people with, is like the tools necessary in order to get to what the facts are. And then you can decide what you want to do, what you do with the facts, that's up to you. But I just want you to know what the facts are, you know, because what I always say is truth is subjective. Like your truth, my truth, that person's truth, it's all your perspective. But fact, it's the same no matter who's looking at it.
- [64:25]
Bridget Todd
Do you feel that in 2025. I don't know. I feel that we've gotten to a place where we are so quick to just read the headline or throw it into Google and then read the AI summary. I mean, what I like, it's so true. It's so like. And I. I just worry that the art of fundamentally, the reason why I do what I do is because, like, at my core, I am a nosy bitch, and I want to find out what I want to find out.
- [64:52]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
So when I called you a scientist, not a nosy dude, listen, I think.
- [64:55]
Bridget Todd
I think it's one and the same. I think there's more.
- [64:59]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You know what?
- [64:59]
Bridget Todd
You know, like, it's like, because it's about wanting to know. Yeah. When you read something and you're like, huh, that's interesting. Let me read more. Oh, let me click into that link. Oh, let me read the study. Oh, the. The PI on the study. Let me Google them. What do I have done? Like, you, I could.
- [65:13]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I am just the nosy bit. Yeah.
- [65:16]
Bridget Todd
I just want to know, and I wonder, like, are we losing the art of just wanting to know? Are we losing the art of, like, I worry that in 2025, it's so trendy to be like, media literacy is dead. But I do think you could. You could. You truly can go on the Internet and say anything, and people will not check. People will not check. You could say anything, and people will not check.
- [65:36]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You can say anything. Listen, I'm not gonna throw nobody under the bus, but let me tell you, there's a lot of things happening on WhatsApp. Yes. With some of these older people that are parent age. That. Yes. I'm just like, hey, where did you find this information? Like, did you. Did you try and do some research about it? Like, they're telling you, never drink ice water.
- [66:00]
Bridget Todd
Why?
- [66:01]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I don't think that that's how they're like, oh, it'll freeze your. Your gut. I don't think that that's how ice water works. Truly. It's just. It's crazy. But I mean, yes, I do agree with you. I think that I think that with the way the Internet is now, because, like, we're carrying it around with us constantly. It's always right there. People are, like, losing their ability to wonder. Like, if I say, how tall do you think? How tall do you think LeBron James is? Somebody's just gonna go, siri, how tall is LeBron James? Like, nobody's gonna say, hmm. Well, he was standing next to 6ft, 9 inches. Did you hear that?
- [66:47]
Bridget Todd
6Ft, 9 inches.
- [66:50]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Siri, please. I'm recording an episode with the Bridget. Todd. Thank you. Oh, my God. I didn't even mean to be talking to her. I didn't even press the button. I guess you heard her name, but, like, you won't say, oh, I saw him standing next to this thing, and that's probably about this height. Nobody wonders anymore. And I think that that is part of the pro. Part of the problem. And we just go straight to our phones. And then, because we're not wondering, we're not doing any. Like, we're not creating these pathways in our brain that are reinforced. So LeBron James is 6 foot 9. This just told me I didn't do any work to get there. So that piece of information, I'm going to forget it now. If I did a lot of research and took time and tried to figure out how tall a sea exactly, and did measurements, I won't forget, because that's just how our brains are set up. You know, there are some people who are very, very intelligent that they only have to see things one time or hear things one time, and they'll remember forever. But the way that the average brain works is that it needs reinforcement, and in order to, like, information needs reinforcement in order for it to stick. And part of that is the wondering and thinking about something for a long time. And that's what helps us to remember and to recall. So without the ability to wonder and, like, have curiosity and trying to get to the facts without just doing a Google or talking to Siri. Yeah, it makes a. It affects your attention span. It affects your ability to remember things. It affects your ability to be able to connect dots in other aspects of your life. And, you know, everything becomes very, very difficult. Like, I mean, yeah, I'm. I'm guilty of that myself. Like, I'll be like, okay, I'm gonna go to the grocery store. It's like that Sesame street thing, that stick of butter. Stick of butter, milk, some bread. And then I get there. I'm not like that little black girl. I'm like, you don't get the Little.
- [68:43]
Bridget Todd
Flash on top of her head. That's like the butter, the milk, the bread.
- [68:48]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
No, I'm like, did I need, I think I needed chicken nuggets. That's what I came out here for. And then I get back home and I'm like, I did need butter and I did not get it. Like, I'm guilty of it too, because I use my phone as a crutch for a lot of things. But exercising your brain and exercising those muscles is so important to like being able to understand what we're looking at and not just reading the headlines. Because when you exercise those muscles, the headline will never be enough. It won't be enough.
- [69:18]
Bridget Todd
And when I, I mean, when I hear about young people in college who are really using ChatGPT to get them through college, on the one hand I get it because it's like you have a million classes, you have a lot of coursework, da da da, da da. But I think back to when I was in college a million years ago and it's like I definitely had nights where if ChatGPT existed, I would have totally used ChatGPT to test to help me get through coursework. However, I also had nights of discovery where I learned something that turned something on in my brain or ignited a curiosity in me that I still have today, years later. And I don't think that we should be thinking about all of this as just tasks to be offloaded or automated because that's, I mean, I can't, I mean, I cannot even express to you how many times I would, would encounter something and it unlocked a lifelong passion or interest or curiosity. And we do in our, in our hyper connected world where we, it's so easy to offload things to technology. We do have to make room for like our brain getting the tinglies because we read something cool and we want to learn more about it. Like that stuff happens by happenstance. And if you are not giving yourself experience, it's almost like we're like, I worry that people are robbing themselves of the experience of that happenstance. Encountering something that like turns something on for you or unlock something for you. Yeah, I mean, and I, I totally.
- [70:45]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Agree and I think that folks can do that in a ChatGPT or Claude or whatever or Gemini or Copilot, whatever your AI model that you want to use is because those, the output is only as good as the input. If you're curious and you, and you can ask the right questions and follow up questions and like you're learning as the, as the AI agent Or whoever is giving you this information, you can still discover. Like, ChatGPT has deep research and sometimes I'll put in there, it'll spit out like a 20 page thing. Now this is not something I'm copy pasting. That is something that I use to research. Like, I'm reading it and I'm like, oh my gosh. And I'm highlighting things. I'm like, oh, what's this source? I'll click on it, it'll take me to whatever that source is. I'll read that and I'll say, huh, well, based on that, do you think that. And what about if you were to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, like you can still get there with AI it's. It's like AI is. It's like going to the library, but instead of having to get the little.
- [71:50]
Bridget Todd
Do they still do that with the.
- [71:51]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Little cards and everything?
- [71:52]
Bridget Todd
I hope. I, I doubt it.
- [71:54]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Oh, man. Well, it's like going to the library and instead of having to check out 50 books, AI can, can tell you what the books are. It can help you get to the exact paragraph that you would need that information from. And then from there you can build from there. Like, sometimes people are like, oh, well, I put in, I put in ChatGPT. Tell me I'm gonna be on a show with Bridget Todd and what questions do you think she's going to ask me? And it gave me all the wrong answers. I'm like, well, you could have also said Bridget Todd is a cultural scientist, aka AKA nosy, nosy bitch, who loves.
- [72:35]
Bridget Todd
Some drama, loves some tea, and just wants to know.
- [72:38]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And, and you know, she is talking about current events. She is very funny. I would also like to be funny on this show. Can you like, get me up to speed with what's going on in current events that she might be talking about? And it will give you all of these different responses and help you understand things more deeply. Like, honestly, just like I was saying with the calculator, a calculator is only as good as, as you are. Like, somebody can give you the most advanced calculator, the most advanced software, they can give you the most advanced coding software. If you don't know how to use it, it's useless. Like, you could put stuff in there. You'd be like, one plus one is two. Duh. I already knew that. Okay, well, do you know how to do the area on the curve? Do you know how to do. Can you do differential equations? Like you have, like, you have to know how to use these things in order for to maximize your potential when you're using it. And so that's what I always say to people. I'm like, if you're interested in using AI to like, advance your life, really sit down and spend time, like, going back and forth with it and like, try not to be too much of a cynic and see how it can help you. Because a lot of, a lot of jobs now. So Morgan Damon, who's the owner of Blavity, she had made a post where she said that she was looking through resumes for folks to hire. And she was like, it's a shame because a lot of these folks are not saying that they are proficient in like, ChatGPT in using AI. And that is mandatory to work in my company. And that's the path we're on now. And so for folks to be like, I will never, like, know where we're headed before you say I will never. Because you really don't want to be left behind when it comes to knowing how to use this technology. Like you. We, if you work in corporate America, you all, we all know, like an old person who is still struggling with emails and turning their camera on when they're on zoom. And you're just like, if you don't just learn this stuff, don't be that person when you still have the ability to learn how to use these things at your job.
- [74:53]
Bridget Todd
And it's interesting that you say this because one of the things I was looking at to prepare for this conversation was this study in Harvard Business Review about how women are a bit slower to adopt AI in their work than men. And they, but. And they actually gave a lot of, like, interesting explanations for why that might be women caring more than men about some of the ethical considerations of AI. Well, that makes sense. But also one of the things they pointed out was women being feeling like they're under more scrutiny for using AI and feeling they might face more judgment than men if they do use AI in their work. And I really felt like that was so interesting because, yeah, it is. Like, on the one hand, I totally agree. But in 2025, if you want to make yourself seem like a competitive, a competitive candidate, you, like, you should be able to speak articulately about AI.
- [75:41]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Absolutely.
- [75:41]
Bridget Todd
Also, I wonder, like, are.
- [75:43]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Is.
- [75:44]
Bridget Todd
Is are women who are self reporting like, well, I don't want to use it too much because I don't want looking at me crazy.
- [75:49]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Right?
- [75:50]
Bridget Todd
Like, what do you say to somebody who feels that way?
- [75:52]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I would say, don't box yourself out in that way because the men are using it and they're using it proudly, honestly. And if you are in an industry where you feel like it will help you be more efficient, you should use it and you should use it proudly. Because even in job interviews, they'll give you a scenario. And if you don't say, I would use AI for this part of it, they're like that, eat too slow. You're going to be way too slow. Like, oh, I would research. No, say I would plug that into ChatGPT. ChatGPT will tell me this, and then from there I'll be able to pinpoint the right people within the organization to blah, blah, like, you don't want to box yourself out. Don't. Don't let these. Don't let these men.
- [76:38]
Bridget Todd
Don't let these men try and make sure putting pro that they are. That they are prompt engineers on their resume, because they know how to ask ChatGPT, oh, my God.
- [76:47]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I have seen it.
- [76:48]
Bridget Todd
I can confirm it with my own eyes.
- [76:50]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And I remember, I can't remember what book I read it in, but it was like, when a man applies for a job, if there are five qualifications and he only has one, he's. He's more likely to apply for it than a woman who has three or four of those qualifications. Like, she will, she will deny herself if she has only four of the five qualifications. When a man will apply when he just has one. We need to move with the boldness of unqualified white men.
- [77:21]
Angie Hicks (Angie Advertisement)
Yes.
- [77:22]
Bridget Todd
And I've. I've said this on the show before. Is that my first ever job in podcasting? It was back in, like, 2012, before Serial was a thing, before anybody knew what a podcast was. I applied. I was just somebody who listened to podcasts and I applied to work on a podcast and I put on my resume, or I think I said in the interview that I knew how to do Final Cut Pro. In reality, I had never. I did not know how to do Final Cut Pro. I just. This was just a fucking whole cloth lie. And then I got the job, and then I learned on YouTube. So have confidence. I am an advocate for people lying themselves into the job that they want.
- [77:59]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Why not?
- [78:00]
Bridget Todd
You know, like, you can learn it.
- [78:02]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
And that's the thing, is that in any job, you can learn. You can learn any of the stuff if they. If you have enough of the qualifications and you're a fast learner and you feel like you could pick stuff up, just do what you got to do to get in there. You learn when you get there. Okay.
- [78:15]
Bridget Todd
Titi, I have one last question for you in your episode about AI, you really will put it in the show notes because people really should hear it. I am often asked, so I feel similarly to you, that people should be testing out how AI might fit into their own lives and their own work. People often say, what about the environmental and ethical considerations which are real. I was in a talk recently about the use of AI in podcasting and how it actually does show up in some podcasts, even though people don't want to admit it. What do you say to them? People are like, well, how do you square that with all of the ethical and environmental considerations?
- [78:51]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I always say that there are ethical and environmental considerations for all things. And if you want to hyper focus on AI, then sure, but I don't know if that's the hill you want to die on, because if folks want to, like, if you can. So sometimes people talk about water to make a serving of rice. The amount of water that's consumed is 72 liters. One hamburger patty is 2,400 liters. And it's not just to, like, cook it. It's like from the cow, the slaughter, all the way into Your Happy Meal, 2400 liters of water, and one ChatGPT query is 0.05 liters. Like, there are a lot of things.
- [79:37]
Bridget Todd
People have talked about.
- [79:37]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Almonds and how much water it uses, rice and how much water it uses. It's like, I don't want to discourage people from like, taking AI to task and saying, hey, we need to make sure that as we're developing this technology that we are considering the environment. We all got to live here. And I don't want this earth to burn up. I want it to live to last for a long time. I love you, Earth. And. But we also have to think about things holistically and the cost for a lot of other things as well. Like, we also need to. We haven't figured out the whole emissions thing. We haven't figured out the fossil fuels thing, but it's like people aren't talking about it anymore. And I'm just like, everybody's hyper focused on AI and which, you know, when you think about some of the awful things that have been done with some of these data centers and people, you know, losing the access to clean air and things like that. Yes, but there are so many things where we're just not there yet and we've kind of lost the plot a little bit and we've lost focus, and I think that we have to just continue to beat the drum about doing things in a sustainable way and doing things that don't harm our environment, but also advancing ourselves because AI might be able to get us to a place where we could find alternatives to fossil fuels. There are scientists that are actively working to make sure that AI is more sustainable. But I'll tell you this right now, those, the fossil fuel folks, I won't say no names, I won't be specific. They're not trying to do that. No, they're not trying to do that. But I know that the folks that are, that are researching and, and trying to get us to a better spot when it comes to AI and its environmental costs, they're, they're absolutely taking and taking it into consideration and it's going to take some time and it's going to take some innovation. But yeah, I think that folks really have to ask themselves other questions as well when they're thinking about the impacts. I'm like, it's not like, oh, everything is bad, so might as well just do it. It's like, yes, there are some bad aspects to AI that is bad for the environment. Let's tackle that. And let's also not forget about fossil fuels. And let's also not forget about fast fashion. Like, let's also not forget about the landfill. Let's also not forget about the trash that's floating in the ocean. Let's also not forget about vaping. Hello. Let's also not forget about, like, there's just. I just want us to always, like, a lot of these things are, you know, taking our attention away. I just want us to always, like, remember that there are so many things that we have to tackle as a global community and we can't lose sight of that.
- [82:37]
Bridget Todd
Titi. Beautiful closing words. Thank you so much for being here. You're such a breath of fresh air.
- [82:43]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Oh my goodness. I'm so, so happy to be here.
- [82:45]
Bridget Todd
Are you kidding? I mean, this is like a mutual podcast love affair. Honestly, I'm obsessed. Where can folks listen to the podcast? What should they know about the podcast? Follow you give us all the deep. Yes.
- [82:59]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
So you can listen to Dope Labs wherever you get your podcast. So you just look for Dope Labs Podcast. We have a really cool black and yellow logo.
- [83:08]
Bridget Todd
It's so good.
- [83:09]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
You can find us on Instagram mainly at Dope Labs Podcast. You can find me at Dr. TSA Sho. And if you want to follow my co host, Zakiya, you can find her@z said. So you can also go to dope lab podcast.com where we put a whole bunch of stuff, fun stuff. And you could subscribe to our newsletter where we put a lot of little tidbits about ourselves and like what we're up to and the things that we're into.
- [83:33]
Bridget Todd
We will hopefully be hearing Zakiya on the pod very soon as well. Thank you so much for being here. I. I mean, it's been a pleasure and thank you for the work that you're doing. I have ever since I the first time I heard about the concept for Dope Lab is I was like, this is it. We need this in the world. It's just, I'm so glad that you all made this beautiful podcast and that it exists in the world.
- [83:54]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Thank you. Thank you so much for being a shining example for us to follow. I mean, it's hard out here in these podcast streets, but seeing you do this and do this so well for so long, it's always so encouraging and, and it's really an honor to be here. Like when the email came in, I was like, I this clearly is a fishing attempt. Oh my God. I was like, whatever link is in this, I know it's fishing because what is going on? I cannot believe it. Oh my gosh.
- [84:24]
Bridget Todd
Well, come back anytime. We love having you come back anytime.
- [84:29]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
I hope to be back. Please have me back whenever I'm ready.
- [84:38]
Bridget Todd
Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach us@helloangodi.com you can also find transcripts for today's episode@tangodi.com there are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer.
- [84:59]
Dr. Titi Chaudia
Producer.
- [84:59]
Bridget Todd
I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Dr. Titi Chaudia
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.