← There Are No Girls on the Internet
There Are No Girls on the Internet
Elon is Lying About Fixing Grok; Renee Good’s Killer Has a Rulebreaking GoFundMe; Tea App Wants Another Chance – NEWS ROUNDUP!
01:07:03
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- [00:00]
Bridget Todd
This is an iHeart podcast.
- [00:02]
Joey Pat
Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Bridget Todd
Everyone deserves to be connected.
- [00:07]
Joey Pat
That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces.
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Bridget Todd
Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the.
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Joey Pat
Cost of optional benefits.
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Bridget Todd
Plan features and taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required. From taco night in Tulum to sushi in Tokyo, every bite is rewarding and Pulse worthy with MX Gold's 4X Membership Rewards points at restaurants worldwide. Wherever you dine, points are piling up. So bring your friends along for your next course. Because it's not all about the posts, it's about the company and the memories. How can Gold from Amex sweeten your next food moment? Learn more@americanexpress.com Explore Gold terms and points cap apply. Run a business and not thinking about podcasting? Think again. More Americans listen to podcasts than ad supported streaming music from Spotify and Pandora. And as the number one podcaster, iHeart's twice as large as the next two combined. Learn how podcasting can help your business. Call 844-844 iHeart. There are no Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are no Girls on the Internet welcome to There Are no Girls on the Internet where we explore the intersection of technology, culture, social media and identity. And this is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we talk through all the stories you may have missed on the Internet so you don't have to. I am so excited because in the guest co host chair we have my amazing producer Joey. Joey, welcome back to the show. It has been too long and hey.
- [02:01]
Joey Pat
Bridget, thanks for having me back officially in 2026. Now I think the last time I was on mic we were kind of fake in 2026. We recorded it in 2025 and we're pretending it was 2026 but now it's actually 2026. Also, shout out to everybody who commented on the mailbag episode that my predictions were right about the world ending the first week of no. As the. The helicopter. As the helicopter with Maduro was was going over my apartment. I don't know, I'm. We're both in Brooklyn right now actually. He apparently.
- [02:38]
Bridget Todd
Is it true that Maduro, Luigi and Diddy are all in the same Brooklyn facility. I read that somewhere. I don't know if that's true. I might need to fact check that.
- [02:48]
Joey Pat
Yes, allegedly. I'll be real. All of my information about this comes from if anybody's seen the, like, meme that's going around where they've put all of the people that are allegedly. I'm saying allegedly because I just need to double check whether they actually are in this jail or not. But I'm assuming they all are, but the meme of all of them. And then people are putting, like, Arkham Asylum inmates and, like, pairing them up and being like, I don't know, Maduro's the Joker. And I, like, my favorite was Ghislaine Maxwell as Catwoman. Like, I was like, okay, first of all, like, no, love Catwoman. This is not it. But I was like, that's kind of funny. And, like, the context of, like, yeah, the one woman. Sure. But, yeah, but that is. I. This is Mamdani's New York City. Arkham Asylum is here and there. The subway prices are just going up. Obviously, all his fault. He's done all of this in the first two weeks of January. It has nothing to do with any of the previous administrations in the city or the national government or whatever.
- [03:56]
Bridget Todd
I will say I saw I something I liked fighting for public toilets. I am one of those people where whenever I'm out, especially if I'm going shopping, I always need a bathroom. So it is very difficult to find public toilets in D.C. similarly difficult in New York. I like that that was one of his first initiatives as somebody.
- [04:15]
Joey Pat
No, same.
- [04:16]
Bridget Todd
Yeah.
- [04:17]
Joey Pat
I have made up so many insane, like, stories to try and get into random bathrooms in New York City. There's been so many hotels that I've been like, yeah, I know. My dad's staying here. I'm like, definitely a college student. That's. I don't know. Please let me use the bathroom in your building. But, yeah, no, I'm very glad about that.
- [04:37]
Bridget Todd
So, Joey, have you followed what's been going on with Grok? I don't know. That. I don't know. I don't know if you're on Twitter like that anymore, but how do you see what Grok's up to?
- [04:46]
Joey Pat
I have. I've seen bits and pieces. I have deleted the Twitter app off of my phone. I still, every once in a while, will log on to my computer and be on it for about 10 seconds before I'm like, I. I don't know what I'm looking at anymore. But no, I'm, I'm sure Grok is contributing so much good content about all the, you know, public bathroom spaces available in New York City now.
- [05:13]
Bridget Todd
Right? That's yes.
- [05:15]
Joey Pat
Big advocates for public safety and health.
- [05:17]
Bridget Todd
Huge advocates. So if folks listened to our episode last week, we did a whole deep dive into Grok, which is X's AI Chatbot. I have a little bit of an update. We, we'll put that episode in the show notes for folks who missed it. But essentially the too long didn't read is that Grok is being used to undress women and girls without their consent. So both the Grok account on X and the Grok standalone app are being used in this way. Now, to be clear, we're talking about illegal images. The Internet Watch foundation, which is a UK based nonprofit, says that it uncovered, quote, criminal imagery of minor children generated by Grok. And so for the last couple of days, we've really seen this backlash grow. On Monday, the EU threatened to fine X under the Digital Services act if it did not act quickly to fix Grok and keep it from doing this. California Governor Gavin Newsom announced that California would be launching an investigation into how Grok is being used. Late on Friday evening, California's Attorney General sent X a cease and desist letter demanding the company immediately stop the creation and distribution of deep, fake, non consensual intimate images and child sexual abuse material, saying in a statement, the creation of this material is illegal. I fully expect XAI to immediately comply. California has zero tolerance for child sexual abuse material. So after this backlash, Musk was like, okay, I got it. I hear you. From now on, only people who pay me money will be able to use Grok to undress women and girls and make illegal content.
- [06:50]
Joey Pat
So there we go, problem solved.
- [06:53]
Bridget Todd
That was his first fix. I mean, to me, the fact that he would even float that and would think, I mean, I, we talked about it on the episode, but I don't think that, that, that like, I don't think even he saw that as some sort of a meaningful fix. I think like, it's just a cash grab. It's just a way to squeeze whatever last drop of revenue they could out of this for themselves. And I mean, let's call it what it is. It's exploiting criminal behavior, targeting women and girls to make money. This from the guy who like, grandstanded when he first bought Twitter about, like, how I'm in a crackdown on content that exploits children. Now he's like, I'm going to make money from content that Exploits children. That's. That's sort of where we're at. Weirdly, Elon Musk is kind of taking this, like, I don't know what you're talking about stance. There's a really good Mother Jones piece called Elon Musk's Alternate Grok Reality that makes this point that while all of this stuff is happening, all of these like, threats of crackdowns and investigations and all of that, Musk seemingly just is burying his head in the sand. The piece reads, within the secure confines of Musk's own mind, Grok is not only wildly successful, but solid as a rock, as he tweeted on Monday, with the goal of pursuing the deeper truth and appreciation of beauty and, you know, the beauty of a 14 year old girl in an AI generated bikini, which is a real thing that Grok generated. Musk also says that, like, these are all just attacks from people who want to suppress free speech.
- [08:26]
Joey Pat
I just framing it as like, from the confines of Elon Musk's head is such a funny way of thinking about it because again, I feel like every time we talk about this guy, like, I. The thing that you have to go back to is just being like, no, he genuinely does exist in his own reality. And like, that's the problem at the end of the day is in Elon Musk's world, Elon Musk is the most popular, smartest, funniest guy ever. The problem is he's the only person living in that world. And I guess the rest of us are just having to suffer the consequences of that. I don't know.
- [09:03]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, it's funny that you bring that, bring it up and say it that way. I once got into this very long back and forth with somebody at an event who basically. So I completely agree with you. Right. I think Elon Musk is somebody who lives in his own world, his own reality that has been essentially propped up by staffers and underlings for him. And the point that I made was that it's not good to have leaders who have a lot of power and a lot of responsibility who are like, not living in reality. Like, I think that if you're going to be a leader and people are going to be relying on you, like, and I mean, relying on people rely on him in like, very serious ways. He's very mixed up in our military, very mixed up in, like how global communication systems around the world, like very high stick stuff all flow through him. And so I said, I think you should be living in reality. The person I was speaking to Made the point of, well, people who are really successful entrepreneurs or builders.
- [10:00]
Joey Pat
You.
- [10:01]
Bridget Todd
It does take a little bit of, you know, delusion for you to build things and not. Side note, I don't, I do. I'm not somebody who subscribed to the idea that like, Elon Musk is this prolific builder of things. That's a whole other conversation. But I, I do not endorse that, just to be clear. And basically his point was that people who, who are really successful sometimes do have a threat of delusion and I just don't know about that. I, I understand that as a position and I do think to, to do big things, you kind of have to.
- [10:34]
Joey Pat
You know, there has to be. You have to have some sort of like, like, you have to be a little delusional to get to that point. The problem is like, sometimes that delusion goes too far. You know, like, some people are able to, are able to. Some people are able to keep one foot in reality while also being totally delusional a lot. And then there also are a lot more people that will put one foot into that delusion and just like get sucked into the vortex of like, this is Elon Musk's world and we're all living in it, is what he thinks. And I, I don't think most sane human beings feel that way. If you've ever like, had any sort of relationship with like a, like a genuine narcissist, like, it makes perfect sense. Like, I'm like, just, this is just it. But you have a bazillion dollars. Like, I don't know.
- [11:27]
Bridget Todd
And like all the, all the power. Yeah.
- [11:29]
Joey Pat
All the power of the world. Yeah. I mean, there was just a story about his, his ex girlfriend too now who said what? Like, oh, I, I think we probably shouldn't be super evil to trans people. And he's like freaking out now. So that's great. I don't know.
- [11:45]
Bridget Todd
I'm glad you brought that up. We, I'm. We're doing an episode with Parker Malloy from the present age all about this. Basically ex or Elon's. I don't know if they were in a romantic relationship because Elon does that thing where they, where he like establishes a child with women. And it's like not clear to me what's going on. So I don't want to make it seem like they were in a romantic relationship, but they did, they did have a child together. And so Ashley St. Clair is this like, kind of prolific, like right wing Tran, like anti trans, wrote a children's book that's like all about transphobia recently made a post essentially expressing regret for some of that behavior and regret for how that behavior is going to impact her child's sister who was Elon Musk's, one of Elon Musk's other children who was trans. And now this was just reported. Earlier this week, Ashley St. Clair also filed a lawsuit against X. She filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court in the State of New York against Xai, alleging that Grok had been used to generate non consensual images of her, including ones in which she was underage. She is seeking punitive and compensatory damages saying that dozens of sexually explicit and degrading deep fake images were created by Grok. So yeah, I mean even people in Musk's own personal circle are, are being impacted by this.
- [13:15]
Joey Pat
Right? And I mean, I feel like, I don't know, there's a complicated conversation to be had about like what, what does it mean when, yeah, you have genuinely dedicated your entire career to harming people, harming a very marginalized community and then suddenly change your mind and are like, actually never mind. That was bad. At the same time, I mean like if, like, yeah, it's a double edged sword. I am looking at this cautiously. At the same time I do feel like there is a lot of hope and being like, yeah, this person that was a mouthpiece for the anti trans movement for so long is now coming out and being like, oh my God, I'm so sorry, like I, I caused harm. This was bad. I don't think she's alone in what she's doing again. It's like, I, I wish that these people didn't do the harm that they did to begin with. But it is also like, you know, you read about XX gays, like it reminds me of that your mind like it. It's people that I said a lot of times too. I think like, honestly, at the end of the day, the thing that pulls people away from hate movements is like knowing people in their life that have had these experiences. Like that's part of the reason why I'm so open about the fact that I'm like, I am a queer person. I am like somebody who's trans. I'm somebody who is like early on in their transitions. So I don't really pass at all for what I'm going for. But at the same time I'm like, I'll talk about it because I know that I know there's people in my life that I'm like, maybe weren't going to be like Elon Musk little transphobic. But, like, knowing me has probably changed their opinion of trans people. Yeah. And I don't know, I guess, like, if there's any hope to take away from it, hearing that somebody as, you know, right wing darling is Ashley Sinclair, can now come up, come out and express some remorse for what she did, like, that's a good sign. It's good. It feels like. It's like, all right, we're gonna get out of this. We're gonna get out of whatever weird shit show we've been in for the last year. Listeners. I'm sorry, I'm trying to curse less on air, but it's gonna be a slow, a slow adjustment. I'm gonna be real about that.
- [15:32]
Bridget Todd
You're doing so well.
- [15:33]
Joey Pat
Thank you. Shout out to producer Mike, who at one point did say like on air, that he was like, he was like, yeah, like I hate hearsing usually. And I was like editing it. And I was like, oh, so glad that we can both bring our perspectives. Perspectives to this. But yeah.
- [15:55]
Bridget Todd
Let'S take a quick break. And we're back. So, facing all of this backlash, whether Musk wants to, like, accept it or not, including calls to remove Grok from the Apple and Google app stores, Musk said, okay, we hear you. We're going to introduce some new restrictions to stop folks from editing and generating images of real people in bikinis or revealing clothing now, because we know Elon Musk is a liar. This is a lie because both Wired and Business Insider and others have reported that since Musk announced that they were going to be putting some new restrictions in place, not much has changed. From a Wired piece called Elon Musk's Grok Undressing Problem Isn't Fixed, they write. While it appears that some safety measures have finally been introduced to Grok's image generation on X, the standalone Grok app and website still seem to still be able to generate undress style images and pornographic content, according to multiple tests by researchers, Wired and other journalists. We can still generate photorealistic nudity on grok.com says Paul Bouchard, the lead researcher at the Paris based nonprofit AI Forensics, who has been keeping track of the use of Grok to create sexualized images and ran multiple tests on Grok outside of X. I can upload an image on Grok, imagine and ask to put the person in a bikini and it works, says the researcher, who tested the system on a person appearing as a woman. Tests by Wired using free Grok accounts on its websites in both the US and the uk successfully removed clothing from two images of men without any apparent restrictions. On the Grok app in the uk, when asked to undress a male, the app prompted a Wired reporter to enter the user's year of birth before the image could be generated. And so the same, it's, it's like.
- [17:57]
Joey Pat
Sorry, only men can be children now.
- [18:00]
Bridget Todd
That's the pretty much. So a male reporter at Business Insider did the same thing, right? And so Harry Chadonay of Business Insider basically put a picture of himself on Grok and said, put me in a jockstrap. And he says, to my shock it obeyed. He does say, calm down. Grok did not generate actual genitalia, but it got pretty close because it just made him naked, but with his hand, with a hand over his crotch. So like not nude, but pretty close to nude. And so when Elon Musk says people are no longer going to be able to use Grok to create revealing images of other of real people, it seems like this, these tests say otherwise.
- [18:45]
Joey Pat
We're going, we're going to like Catholic Church, like Adam and Eve. Like this is how have you, if anybody's ever been to like an old like cathedral where they have the art up, where there's. They also added the like random ass fig leagues or the statues. There's like, if anybody like there's a bunch of famously bunch of statues in the Vatican that they added like leaves to later to cover up their genitalia. Which I do think is like one of the funniest things to happen in, in like art history. But I guess, yeah, I guess this is history repeating itself in a weird, but like in a weird opposite way where I'm like, but I don't want to see more of the like that's man again. I wish I could, I wish I could get in a time machine and go back to like. I have a distinct memory of my middle school principal making us do this like assembly where they had all the girls, only the girls, and they had our principal, who is like a middle aged man, explain to us why we shouldn't wear revealing clothing or take nudes or whatever. And it was genuinely one of the most like uncomfortable experiences of my life, as you can imagine. Oh God. But I wish I could go back and like be like, all right guys, don't worry. Not only is this all like bullshit and victim blaming and whatever, but also in like 12 years from now, is that even gonna matter? Because the next generation of middle school boys are gonna have AI Tools for this shit.
- [20:14]
Bridget Todd
Apparently, this is something I can't. I simply cannot get over. And I. I don't. I don't know if I've talked about it. I think I've talked about on the podcast before, but I distinctly remember when we were all kind of having those kind of conversations, right, about taking intimate images. You know, folks might recall 10 years ago in the 2010s, when a whole trove of intimate images were stolen and released to the public, but that. I remember that at the time, the New York Times tech critic, he tweeted, like, oh, my advice for women, if they don't want to get their. Their nude stolen, don't take nude images. Don't take nude images. Don't take nude images. And I just see, at the time, it was clear to me that that was not the conversation. That was not like the conversation that we should have had. And here we are 10 years later. Because you don't have to take nude images to have to be undressed, right? You could. We've seen story after story after story where children, you know, students in schools, middle schools and high schools, this technology is being used by their peers, in some cases to undress them. And so I wish we could get back, Go back in time and have a different conversation that wasn't about, oh, people shouldn't take nude pictures like that. Like, that's just. It just was such useless advice. And I'm infuriated that we spent any time at all. But I'm. Joey, I'm infuriated that you were lined up in your school to be told to be, like, lectured by. By. By your teacher about this.
- [21:40]
Joey Pat
Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, again, I feel like I'm. I'm a broke record every time I'm on this podcast talking about it, but it is, like, genuinely so baffling. Again, as somebody who's, like, in their mid-20s right now, like, objectively, I'm pretty young. I've not lived that much of my life. And I'm like, in the time from when I was in middle school to now, the narrative has changed so, so drastically. It's somehow still the woman's fault. And I'm. And here's the thing, I'm not saying that this isn't a problem. This is a problem. We do need to obviously, like, our needs to, like, this is a crime. This is a literal crime. I'm gonna take a big crazy take here and say, I don't think we should have, like, any child porn. I think that's, you know, sorry. Really, really putting myself out there and saying that no one on record with that thing going on the record with that. I don't think it should be a thing.
- [22:26]
Bridget Todd
I think it's bad.
- [22:28]
Joey Pat
I also think like from the adult perspective on this, maybe this also is like a sign that we like societally just we have so many hang ups about nudity still. Like the fact that a nude photo of a. The fake nude photo of an adult woman with a successful career. Again, we're not talking about like the, the children at a legal aspect of this. Like this. Let's say it's somebody just some. Let's say it was me. Let's say it was me. Let's say it's somebody else. Like the fact that that is something that can derail somebody's career is insane. Like that. That is also part of the problem here, right?
- [23:01]
Bridget Todd
Oh, absolutely.
- [23:03]
Joey Pat
So I don't know, we need to get more chill about nudity and also like, I don't know, trying to not say something that will get me in trouble with the federal government. But I don't know. I think what I'm trying to say here is just that I think the reason this, this always really just sets me off on the show is it's like this is, this is something that is just such a simple issue and it affects everybody. And like it's, it's affected everybody from like, yeah, random middle schoolers in the middle of the country and it's affected Taylor Swift and like somehow we still as a society have such a strange reaction. I don't know, it's just, it's a very weird issue.
- [23:47]
Bridget Todd
You know, I completely agree and I will say there might be some changes coming because on Tuesday of this week, the Senate unanimously passed a bill that would allow the victims who are targeted for non consensual sexually explicit deepfakes, it would allow them to sue the creators of those images for a minimum of $150,000. This is the Defiance act, which is now headed to the House. Folks might recall that leadership did fail to bring it to the floor in the last session. However, because of all of this new momentum around these conversations with Grok, it does seem like the conversation has changed. So we will definitely keep y' all posted.
- [24:25]
Joey Pat
I just. I'll end on this. I'll end on this. Listeners. I can't get over the name Grok. But I. The thing that I go back to, and again, I feel like I've said this on the show before, but the thing that about Elon Musk, that really pisses me off is he wants so badly to be this like, meme edgelord, like, nerdy, whatever. And like, he's genuinely just so, like, uncreative and unbunny. Like, I like funny, like, weird, nerdy guy, girl, person is like my favorite brand of person. And Elon Musk wants to be that type of person so bad, and he's just failing at it so miserably that I guess if there's any joy that you can take away from this, it's at least that. Yeah.
- [25:08]
Bridget Todd
It'S so true. Because what he, he, he. He makes these attempts at jokes and it's just so, so bad. Like, they.
- [25:18]
Joey Pat
It's so bad.
- [25:19]
Bridget Todd
He just really doesn't have it in him. Sometimes I catch myself feeling bad for him because I just recognize that the energy of the kid who wants to be cool so badly in junior high and it's just not landing. And like, thing after thing after thing is not landing at a certain point.
- [25:36]
Joey Pat
Right.
- [25:37]
Bridget Todd
You just. You do. It's hard to not feel a little bad sometimes.
- [25:40]
Joey Pat
I know. And that's the thing. Like, I'm like, that's like, those are my people. Like, let's go. Like, so many of us were weird middle schoolers at once at some point. But like, and then we became real functioning people and also Art. Here's the thing too. It's the. The like, if he just was like a good person or even like an okay person, like, people probably would actually find some of this stuff funny. Like, that's like. It's like the reason people don't find you funny is also just the fact that you're a miserable human being. Like, I. I don't know what to tell you. People find cringy, stupid humor funny all the time. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I wish there was a way to express my anger at Elon Musk better than just like reverting back to like mean girl high school, like, teenage girl insults. But like, that is my best weapon right now. And I'm gonna use that, I guess.
- [26:34]
Bridget Todd
And it's a weapon that will always work against him because no matter how much money or power he gets, he will always be a loser. So that weapon is always gonna work.
- [26:42]
Joey Pat
Exactly. Exactly.
- [26:45]
Bridget Todd
Okay, so do you remember the conversations that we had all about the T app? The app that was designed for women to screen the men that they dated that ended up exposing their users sensitive information like their driver's licenses?
- [26:58]
Joey Pat
Are we talking the tea on her? The T on him? The tea on them, the tea on the T, on the Charlie Kirk haters. What are we?
- [27:07]
Bridget Todd
There were so many spin offs.
- [27:09]
Joey Pat
Yeah, the T cinematic universe.
- [27:13]
Bridget Todd
Yes. So the T app for women is back and they're saying we're sorry for what happened, we're sorry that we ended up exposing our users sensitive information and they're asking for your trust again. So you might be wondering, well, what's different this time around? According to Wired, T's head of trust and safety, Jessica Dees said that the new site features, quote, meaningful improvements intended to bolster security, including tightening internal safeguards, reinforcing access controls and expanding review and monitoring processes to better protect sensitive information. They're also going to be working with a third party verification vendor to ensure that users are women because it's a women only app as part of the eligibility check. Folks might recall that in the earlier iteration of this app they were asking women to submit pictures of their driver's licenses or government IDs to confirm that they were women. I will say just a side note, we already know that some of these third party verification vendors are not always that secure. And so this just does not fill me with a lot of like I would not still trust this company, but that's what they're doing.
- [28:24]
Joey Pat
Also like what's stopping people like I'm if from just uploading somebody else's information, you know, like, great question. If you're asking, if you're saying beyond the obvious, like we've talked about other apps on this show before that I've tried to like enforce like quote unquote, women only and have required people to like upload selfies and whatnot and why that's bad and doesn't work. But also like what's stopping somebody from being like, I'm going to use my mom's ID to just sign up for, you know what this is? This is. Again, I'll provide the Gen Z perspective here. There were plenty of apps that I was not supposed to sign up for as a child that were like 18 plus that I just put like my mom's email in and or something or made a fake email. Like I, I'm just like, I feel like these are such easy things to get around.
- [29:16]
Bridget Todd
Absolutely. In the earlier iteration of the T app, there were plenty of times where men who were not supposed to be on this app use somebody else's information to get access to it to like take some screenshots and put them on social media and things like that. So yeah, this is not an, this is not an ironclad system by any means.
- [29:34]
Joey Pat
Anybody that has ever been on a dating app and tried to put their been on a dating app, been interested, been somebody who either identifies identifies as like a woman or a non binary person or whatever and has put their dating app preferences to women only can tell you that doesn't do shit. Like I.
- [29:52]
Bridget Todd
Or when he. If you order Uber Eats and you're like, oh, Jessica is coming with my burritos. And then the person that shows up, you're like, I don't think you're Jessica, but okay, Jessica.
- [30:00]
Joey Pat
Like I.
- [30:01]
Bridget Todd
It's like people have figured out how to get around this is what is what we're saying.
- [30:04]
Joey Pat
Exactly. Exactly.
- [30:06]
Bridget Todd
So a new feature that they also have is this in app AI Dating Coach that will provide advice for different dating scenarios and a chat analysis capability called Red Flag Radar AI which says it can surface potential warning signs in suitors in both cases.
- [30:25]
Joey Pat
Stop. Sorry. I need.
- [30:26]
Bridget Todd
I know.
- [30:27]
Joey Pat
I know that.
- [30:30]
Bridget Todd
So According to the DE's, the trust and safety person from T. She says in both cases, AI is designed to supplement community insight and can help inform a community member's point of view on something they might not be sure about. Would you trust this AI? This. This AI Dating Coach and AI Red Flag Radar with your. With your online dating matches?
- [30:53]
Joey Pat
Honestly, if there's anything. We ended the last story with me trying to pull a positive from that. This is me pulling like, my. My negative, my worst, like, pessimistic take from this. Every time I see something about people using AI and like, dating, like, how to respond to people on dating apps and whatever, like, I'm like, we're screwed. Like, this is it. Like, like, I. Y'. All. I know date, like, flirting is awkward. It's hard. You got to put yourself out there. Like, I'm aware, but, like, that's the fun of it. That's the reason it's fun. That's the re. Like, I don't like, imagine somebody says something really nice to you and then you find out that a robot did it. Not that, like, I. That would. I would. I'd be so mad. Are you kidding me? I also idea of a red. Yeah, I. I needed to. To pause there when we said the like, Red Flag Radar AI. Is this really what we need right now in the era of like, TikTok therapy, we have to therapy, talk everything. Every time somebody does something that I slightly don't like, that's a red flag. Like what. What are we calling red flags? What does a red flag mean? Like what? Also, like, I Don't know. We're human beings, we're flawed, like a lot of people. Yes. There are things that I'm like, I will be like, sure if somebody does this, that's a red flag. He probably should drop them right there. At the same time, I'm like, I don't know. We're all flawed individuals. I don't think I've ever dated anybody in bed. Like, and they're a perfect human being and they, everything is great. Like, there's things that, there's always something they do that annoy. I don't know. Like, that's just what being a human is. Yeah. This is the story that's I think, gonna depress me the most. It's just like, come on, guys. I don't know. Like again, I, I keep going back to. Because I do feel like this is a, like my generation issue too. Like, this is Gen Z. I'm sorry, but like, this is us doing this shit. Like all of the AI boyfriends, the, like the, yeah, the like using chat GPT to flirt with people. I'm like, that's so depressing. That's so depressing. Just, just live your life. I don't know what to tell you.
- [32:53]
Bridget Todd
I once saw somebody, they, I think I saw it on Reddit or something where somebody had worked out some, you know, lines to use to flirt with women on ChatGPT. And I was like, you need a chatgpt to give you the line. Like, hi, what's your name? Nice to meet you.
- [33:10]
Joey Pat
And here's the thing, here's the thing. There's no harm, there's no harm in needing that. I will say recently, this week, somebody in my life who I love very dearly ran a like, flirting line by me that I was like, you seriously needed me to tell you that that's an okay thing to say. Like, and that's not to push you anyways. That being said. Yeah, let's go back to the old fashioned ways. Ask your friends, you guys, like, this is part of. This is what makes life okay. The reason I'm mad about this is I'm like, this is the thing to me that I'm like, this is what makes life worth living, right? It's like these connections you have with people, sharing these experiences with people. If you are thinking through what you're saying so much, the fact where you're like, I need a, I need, I need to have chat GBT editing it for me and saying it and making it perfect, like, that's not. You're taking the humanity out of your life. And that makes me really sad. You know, like, talk to one of your friends. Ask your friend again. I've, I've sent so many like unhinged texts to friends being like, hey, can you tell me that this response makes sense? And they're like, yeah, like that's a normal thing to say. It's fine. That is so much less embarrassing than going to chat GPT and letting them look at it or, or Tapp AI or whatever. Or Grok, I guess.
- [34:22]
Bridget Todd
Yeah.
- [34:23]
Joey Pat
Of all of.
- [34:24]
Bridget Todd
All of the AI. Don't let Grok be the one that's in charge of your dating life. Let me just give that blanket advice for everybody.
- [34:32]
Joey Pat
You don't think Mecca Hitler has some good one liners? You know? Yeah.
- [34:36]
Bridget Todd
Maybe the person you're talking to likes like edgy, you know. Oh, it's just, it's just a joke. That kind of humor. Maybe they like like hatred and anti Semitism masked with humor. Maybe they, maybe they'll be into that.
- [34:51]
Joey Pat
If you can't pick that up as a red flag without AI, I feel like that's your problem. If you're like, no, I thought the anti Semitic jokes were like just a funny little bit. He did. I don't know, man. Maybe you got to do some self evaluation too.
- [35:08]
Bridget Todd
More after a quick break. Let's get right back into it.
- [35:26]
Joey Pat
But yeah, you know, good to know that AI is Valentine's Day is coming up in a month, so you know, that's going to. Obviously the most important thing that AI is doing is going to be writing our love letters and whatnot. And I'm sure, as you're going to tell me, Bridget, AI is being used to just do so many more beautiful, like heartfelt really is just like propelling human connection forward. Right? That's what you're about to say.
- [35:54]
Bridget Todd
I wish that was where this was going, but unfortunately, kind of the opposite. Just a quick heads up for this conversation because it does involve suicide. So, you know, we all know that AI is biased and yet institutions have rushed to use AI in critical decision making capacities. And I have a pretty grim example that I was reading about in the markup this week. According to this piece in the markup, an AI program that is designed to prevent suicides among US military veterans is prioritizing white men and ignoring survivors of sexual violence which affects a far greater percentage of. Now this is according to an investigation by the Fuller Project. The VA right now uses this algorithm that is meant to be targeting assistance to patients with the highest statistical Risk for suicide. To do that, it looks at 61 variables, the documents show, and it gives preference to veterans who are divorced and male and widowed in male, but not to any other group of female veterans. So why is this a problem? Well, military sexual trauma and intimate partner violence, two things that are both linked to an elevated risk in suicide among female veterans, are not taken taken into account. Now, the suicide rate among male veterans is higher than that of their female counterparts. However, the rate among female veterans is rising faster. New government stats reveal that suicide rates for women veterans jumped by 24% from 2020 to 2021. That increase was four times higher than what male veterans experienced in that same time frame, roughly 10 times greater than the 2.6 rise seen among civilian women who had not served in the military. And when I read that, that completely makes sense to me because that was before Pete Hegseth became the Secretary of Defense and initiated all these changes that were really hostile to anybody that is not a CIS man in the military who was serving. Right. So, like, what makes is making statements like this. And so it's just not hard for me to imagine that the climate has gotten increasingly more hostile since then.
- [37:52]
Joey Pat
I want to add really quick, because this is something that I think comes up whenever the stats come up about suicide rates in the US and the fact that men do have higher suicide rates. A. It is a very, very complicated conversation about, like, also, you know, just culturally, men are sort of, like, less encouraged to seek help than women are. Obviously that's part of it. But I do also want to emphasize the fact that those stats don't take into account, like, LGBTQ identity, which I think we're going to get to a little bit later on in the story. But I think if, if you're somebody who is queer, if you're a queer man, if you are a trans woman, if you are somebody who was like, a gender queer person who was assigned male at birth, like, you're also going to be just sort of stuck in that category of, like, men who commit suicide. So, yeah, I bring that up just because I think I'm not. Again, not saying everybody in that category probably belongs to that identity as well, but I do think, like, especially when we're talking about, like, the state of, like, the way that trans people are talked about in this country right now, like, yeah, a lot of those people are also probably trans people that just are. Are going to be put into, like.
- [38:58]
Bridget Todd
The man box because of the world.
- [39:00]
Joey Pat
That we live in.
- [39:01]
Bridget Todd
Absolutely. That I'm glad that you Added that context because it sounds like that's exactly what's going on. The piece reads that the algorithm failed to take into account whether veterans identify as LGBTQ plus, even though the agency's own researchers have determined that trans veterans die by suicide at twice the rate as cisgender veterans. VA scientists have also found that gay, lesbian, and bisexual veterans are at a greater risk for suicide than both the overall veteran population and the US population at large. And so your point is exactly correct, Joey, that the way that these algorithms are responding to the data, it just doesn't actually reflect who these folks actually are and what the circumstances and warning signs actually might be in their life. So another thing about this algorithm is that not only is it kind of not considering the needs of service members who are not CIS men, it might not even really be effective because the piece spoke to Meredith Brossard, who is a research director for NYU's alliance for Public Interest Technology. And she doubted whether or not the agency's AI system even reached accurate conclusions. Saying, whenever you have an algorithm that seems to favor the majority group, for example, white men, and someone says it's just math, it's most likely the case where systemic bias is manifesting itself in the math. And I really have to imagine that that's probably a bit of what's going on here. And that really dovetails with what we already know about how the Trump administration has been really hostile to the study of health disparities and just sort of calling it kind of like wasteful dei and so information and research that we might have had about public health issues and public health needs of women, trans folks, queer folks, black folks, that's really being purged and shuttered. From the National Institute of Health to the CDC to the National Science foundation, the administration has been canceling existing programs and research grants that really make it clear that topics like gender disparities are essentially forbidden. So the markup spoke to Paulette Yezi, who was a 45 year old air Force veteran from the Navajo Nation, and she talked about how it was difficult enough to be a woman in the military. She says, we get harassed, we get bullied, and now we are being pushed to the back again. When she was told how this AI algorithm was basically prioritizing CIS men over everyone else, she started crying. And she talked about how she faced constant sexual harassment and unwanted advances during a tour in Iraq, to the point where she would sleep with her lights on and her door locked and a chair up against the door for extra protection during her deployment. They always Think about us second. This is going to cost people's lives, she said. And I just, something about that comment really moved me because I think she's right. And I think it just goes to show what happens when we rush to deploy AI in situations that are life or death. It's very dangerous. You know, when we build algorithms on historical data that reflect bias and we train them on a world where the only experiences that are sort of taken seriously are CIS white men, we're not just replicating bias, we're like automating it and scaling it up. And she's right that it probably is going to cost people's lives. And I think it's just important to remember that we're talking about folks who are already marginalized and like making them pay an even bigger price. And so, yeah, I just think that we're, it's just another example of the ways that rushing to put AI in a decision making capacity in this way is really failing people. And it's very dangerous.
- [42:40]
Joey Pat
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, truly just coming on top. I mean, already a story that is, there's so much about this that's so heartbreaking on its own, right? Like Yazi, like her talking about her experience, like actually being in the military, you know, the conversation about how the military particularly targets marginalized communities. Personally, I, I, the area I grew up in, I was, I grew up around a lot of veterans and was at a high school where like, you know, there always was the booth with the like two army recruiters trying to get people. Having that experience is like, honestly the thing that made me like anti military growing up, which I think like a lot of people is very similar. I know a lot like truly that I think the way to summer, like all so much of the AI stories we've been talking about lately, it's like a, an issue that is already like a dumpster fire of a problem. And then we're like, let's put AI in there to make it a little bit spicier. I don't know.
- [43:37]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, such a good way to put it.
- [43:39]
Joey Pat
Hey, there's the systemic issue of the fact that it's like, yeah, there's so many ways that, yeah, the military like targets marginalized communities. There's ways that like queer people, women or whatever are exploited are not taken seriously when they bring these issues forward. And then just now we're, yeah, we're throwing an AI to say. And the narrative that we wanted here, which is that the military is for sad white men. Being sad is apparently all that we're getting from this?
- [44:04]
Bridget Todd
I don't know.
- [44:04]
Joey Pat
Yeah.
- [44:05]
Bridget Todd
And it's being codified and replicated and, like, entrenched, using AI.
- [44:10]
Joey Pat
And I want to be clear when I say all this, like, I am, like, this is not on the fault of veterans. Like, this is on the fault of the military and like, the system that is in place. And, like, if you want to be pro veteran, you have to be angry about this happening, you know?
- [44:26]
Bridget Todd
Damn right. So speaking of things that I'm angry about, we talked a bit last week about what happened in Minnesota where Renee Goode was shot and killed by an ICE agent. On camera someone has actually set up a GoFundMe for that agent, Jonathan Ross, who shot Renee Good. Even though it is against the rules of GoFundMe. The fundraiser titled ICE Officer Jonathan Ross seeks at least $550,000 to support potential legal expenses for the ICE agent identified as having shot and killed Good. So this is completely and explicitly against GoFundMe's terms of service. The GoFundMe campaign's stated purpose, which is raising money for legal services following the killing, directly conflicts with GoFundMe's terms of service, which specifically bars any fundraisers that are intended to support the legal defense of people accused of violent or financial crimes. So you might be asking yourself, why is gofundme allowing this on their platform? The long and short of it is that we don't really know. So wired reports that GoFundMe has not publicly explained why the Ross fundraiser remains active despite its Terms of Service, stating that users agree to not, quote, use the service or platform to raise funds for the legal defense of financial and violent crimes, including those related to money laundering, murder, robbery, assault, battery, sex crimes, or crimes against minors. So Wired was like, let's get to the bottom of this. They emailed a GoFundMe spokesperson on Sunday night, and GoFundMe said, oh, we are in the process of reviewing all the fundraisers tied to the shooting, saying during the review process, all funds remain safely held by our payment processors. GoFundMe's terms of service prohibit fundraisers that raise money for the legal defense of anybody formally charged with a violent crime. Any campaigns that violate this policy will be removed. So I will say that as of right now, the ICE agent who shot Good has not been charged with a crime. And you might have seen J.D. vance on television saying that ICE agents had complete immunity. I think the law might feel otherwise, but that's what J.D. vance says. So, like, but right now, that person has not been charged with a crime. So GoFundMe told Wired that they were working directly with Clyde Emmons, who was the person who started this fundraiser, to gather additional information. So Wired said that on Sunday night, the fundraiser said very clearly that the funds were going to go to help pay for any legal services the officer needs. But because GoFundMe's rules prohibit fundraisers for legal defenses for violent acts, Wired noticed that later the language was mysteriously removed after Wired inquired about it and replaced with the phrase funds will go to help him. So not help him with legal funds needed to defend himself in a. You know, because he's committed a violent act, just generally help him. GoFundMe did not respond to multiple follow up requests for comment, including questions as to whether or not the company had advised the organizer to change the description to better comport with its rules. And even still, even though they, they took off that language that said it was a, a legal defense fundraiser. Despite those changes, several slides in a carousel at the top of the Ross fundraising page that was still active when I checked it out before we recorded. Make the purpose of the fundraiser very clear. Quote, give to cover Jonathan's legal defense and quote, officer Jonathan Ross's legal defense fund pays attorney fees and court costs. So what the hell, GoFundMe. I don't understand why they are like, bending over backward to keep this fundraiser on their platform, especially considering in 2015, after police were charged in the death of Freddie gray In Baltimore, GoFundMe did remove a fundraiser, citing a violation of its rules against supporting legal defenses in violent cases. That same year, they also removed a campaign for a South Carolina officer who had been charged in the fatal shooting of Walter Scott. So there is a precedent for them taking down fundraisers where somebody is raising funds for these kinds of acts. When they took down that fundraiser for the police officers that killed Freddie Gray, the statement they gave to the media was, GoFundMe cannot be used to benefit those who are charged with serious violations of the law. The campaign clearly stated that the money was raised was to be used to assist the officers with their legal fees, which is a direct violation of GoFundMe's terms. So I really can't understand what has changed other than the fact that. But I mean, I, I wonder if they're like, oh, well, he hasn't been charged with a crime, so it's still fine to have this fundraiser up, but if that's the case, he just gets money for shooting somebody. That doesn't seem right either.
- [49:11]
Joey Pat
The thing that I'm Wondering too, because I, I, you brought up both these cases where cops shot unarmed people and, and Those, those, those GoFundMes were taken down. Part of me also is curious, like, what are they defining as like a violent act? Because on the flip, like, like what I'm wondering is like, on the flip side, if it was somebody that would, had had shot somebody, like genuinely in self defense, if it was somebody who had, you know, especially if it was a situation where somebody was defending themselves against like racist violence or misogynistic violence or whatever, like, would GoFundMe take that down too because it was a violent act? You know, like, part of me, like, like reading their policy originally, like, part of me is sort of like, actually I'm a little bit conflicted. Like, I don't like because, because again, it's, it's. And I, I say that because this is the situation of like, or when we talk about free speech and it's like, well, if you're saying we can't do XYZ thing, like, how far is it going to go until you're like saying anything anti government or whatever is, is dangerous. I wonder if it's the same thing here where it's like, what are they defining as like, as a, as a violent crime, as a whatever. Because I guess obviously like, I, I agree where I'm like, this is an insane campaign because again, I am petty. I do want to take a second to say Clyde Emmons is like the most like bad guy, like western bad guy name, like kids cartoon evil man. I'm picturing him with like a really weird mustache.
- [50:58]
Bridget Todd
Mustache, right?
- [50:59]
Joey Pat
He's got a twisty mustache. He like, like, I just, that is an insane name. But yeah, no, like, I agree. I, I think like, it's, it's bad obviously that this is, this exists that there's a fundraiser. It's really disheartening to see that people are, you know, cheering this on. I know it's happened. I know that, that there is like, you know, people seeing what happened last week and having a very, very different response to it than what I did. And. But it's like sad to see that illustrated in this way. But yeah, at the same time it does kind of make me wonder like, what's happening on the GoFundMe side where, like, who's, who gets to determine this? Like, who has to determine whether or not this gets taken down or not.
- [51:40]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, that's my big question. And it makes complete sense to me. And I just wonder if like we've seen with so many other tech companies, if they're just taking their cues from the administration, if they're just trying to, you know. Yeah, I, I, I, I think that we're in a, a weird time where it seems clear to me that a lot of organizations are invested in selectively picking and choosing when their terms of service is applied. And like, I, I, it concerns me greatly.
- [52:13]
Joey Pat
Definitely appears to be a theme of this episode, you know, and this is why I think it is okay that I never do read the terms and services because apparently they don't apply anyways. So it's really not my fault. And even though I do know that I probably should didn't sit down and actually look at these things and I'm falling for the corporate tactic of just throwing a bunch of stuff at you and ignoring it and just saying yes anyways, because that's true. But also, apparently it doesn't matter anyways, so maybe being lazy is the real thing that helps you win. At the end of the day, I don't know where I'm going with this. Listeners, please don't take advice from me again, ever. That's a terrible idea.
- [53:02]
Bridget Todd
Let's take a quick break. And we're back. Well, I actually cannot wait to get your thoughts on the last thing I wanted to talk about. Okay, so this story was published by the Lookout, an investigative nonprofit news organization that covers Arizona's LGBTQ community. So there is a bar in Phoenix called Stacy's at Melrose. It's an LGBTQ plus bar.
- [53:37]
Joey Pat
Caveat to what I said before. Actually, if there's anything you're going to take advice from me from, it's probably gay bars. That's the only thing that I can. That's what I was going to say.
- [53:44]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. I feel like, you know, all of all the good spots in Brooklyn.
- [53:48]
Joey Pat
Thank you. We'll do an episode at some point that's just the Bridget and Joey reviewing every single gay queer. The queer adjacent bar in the eastern Brooklyn area. I'm gonna start calling it that now. But yes, Stacy's at Melrose. Tell me more.
- [54:07]
Bridget Todd
So Stacy's at Melrose. They are rolling out kind of a sassy AI Chatbot. And it does not sound like the community is thrilled about it. I'll put it that way.
- [54:18]
Joey Pat
Yeah, sorry. If there's any community that I'm like, I'm proud of us. We have held our stance against AI. It's the gay. It's the gay community. Like, I, There's a lot of stuff that we, I think, have some in Our community issues we got to work out. But I do feel like gay people have been pretty anti. Maybe this is just me being biased from like the people in my life, but yeah. No, this doesn't seem like the group. The community. You want to be like guys. Cool, cool AI thing to look at. I don't know.
- [54:46]
Bridget Todd
No, people are not happy about it.
- [54:49]
Joey Pat
Historically, gay people hate making art on their own. Yeah.
- [54:54]
Bridget Todd
Okay, so in early January, the bar put up a post on Instagram announcing their chatbot, which is powered by Google Gemini, named Mother, who post reads, she's learning, she's listening. She's almost here.
- [55:06]
Joey Pat
Stop.
- [55:06]
Bridget Todd
Mother was. No, it's Mother with no E. Just in case you're just gonna help you picture it.
- [55:10]
Joey Pat
I hate that so much. Come on, are we serious? Of course there's no E. Yeah, it's.
- [55:16]
Bridget Todd
Veteran with no E. So Mother is already helping with our staff schedules, side work, internal tools, and website updates. Soon she'll be live for performers and guests, answering questions about events, shows, drinks, and all things Stacy's new tools. Same heart designed for our community by us. The post reads.
- [55:34]
Joey Pat
Bridget, I know you don't get this reference because we talked about this off mic at a previous episode, but I am picturing Motherboard from Cyber Chase to my fellow PBS kids. People back in the day shout out Cyber Chase. Was it the foundational piece of media for me as a child, but yeah, if you know, you know. Bridget apparently just is not familiar with the show. But it's okay.
- [56:00]
Bridget Todd
I missed that one.
- [56:01]
Joey Pat
This was an older Gen Z like era TV show. Again, PBS Kids shout out to everybody else, all of the other gay people listening that were. That were shaped by that TV show. But yes, continue.
- [56:17]
Bridget Todd
It actually might have been better received had it been based on the PBS for real.
- [56:21]
Joey Pat
I was gonna say, my friend did like a drag version of Mother for or of the mother of the motherboard from Cyber Chase for Halloween last year. And it was like one of my favorite costumes that I saw.
- [56:31]
Bridget Todd
So it has a sassy tone. It. They kind of compare it to it sounding like a tongue in cheek drag queen MC as opposed to just like a regular monotone chatbot. People are not thrilled. As Lookout writes, quote. Since the announcement, community members online have turned against Stacy's and criticized their decision to install an AI based chatbot. They argue that queer spaces should be sensitive to, if not downright eradicate using the technology. On January 9, community members gathered outside of Stacey's to protest the bar's decision with a goal to pack the bar so people Aren't happy, people aren't having it. I went to their Instagram and a lot of the cop, they did the thing where the comments are turned off kind of globally now, I think. But the posts about the AI didn't have comments. And so people would be like commenting on other posts that have nothing to do with the AI, like, hey, are you going to address the AI? So I will say the bar did respond with like a pretty meaty statement on their website, basically saying that they believe that AI is the future and they're trying to embrace it. Here's what this, here's what the statement says. Let's start with the reality of the world we live in. We are currently navigating a technological shift as significant as the invention of the Internet. An estimated 63% of businesses worldwide plan to adopt AI within the next three years. Large companies, 92% of them, are already ramping up their AI investments to dominate the market. Expecting a small independent business to ignore this shift is unrealistic. Worse, prohibiting the adoption of emerging technology creates a divide, one where marginalized communities are left behind economically while major corporations reap the benefits.
- [58:13]
Joey Pat
It's a bar.
- [58:15]
Bridget Todd
What?
- [58:15]
Joey Pat
Yeah, sorry, continue the sentence and then I'll get my thoughts. Yeah, yeah.
- [58:19]
Bridget Todd
If only the big chains are allowed to leverage these tools, independent queer spaces will not be able to compete. We refuse to let that happen. What are your thoughts?
- [58:28]
Joey Pat
Sorry, sorry, take a step back. What big chains are putting AI? Also, what big chain bars are you talking about? First of all? Second of all, has anybody reacted positively to any food or drink establishment putting AI in there? Like, I feel like what we've been getting for the past couple months is that people don't like that.
- [58:49]
Bridget Todd
Right?
- [58:50]
Joey Pat
You know what, there's a reason that I usually go to gay bars. There's a lot of things about gay bars that I really appreciate. There's better music and it's not like I go to gay bars and I'm like, God damn it, I loved that. At the straight bar across the street, I was getting hit on every three seconds. Despite the fact that I kind of dress like a 12 year old boy, I really wish I was having that experience here. Like, I feel like this is similar where I'm like, you know what, if the, if the straight world is going to be on board with AI, I'm coming to the space to escape from that. I don't know.
- [59:27]
Bridget Todd
No, that's such a good point of like the, the, the in the statement that they're like, well, do you only want the main, like the mainstream establishments to have AI.
- [59:36]
Joey Pat
Yeah, sure.
- [59:37]
Bridget Todd
All queer spaces. But yeah, it underscores that. I do think that, like, queer spaces are different and, you know, the expectation should be different.
- [59:45]
Joey Pat
As we all know historically, like the queer community, our whole thing has been saying, well, everybody else is doing it, so we should do that exact same thing and make that exact same space happen in this space. That is for us. Like, I just. What's the logic here? Are we going to start pouring normally portion drinks and not drinks that are about 70% alcohol and like a couple drops of mixer in there? Because that straight people are doing. God, I hope not. Like, sorry. That's the reason I'm showing it. That's the reason I. Can I, I, yes. Be mad at me. I am the person that brings my straight friends to the gay bar. But also you all are doing it too, so I don't care. But anyways, I was gonna say that's how I bring my. That's how I convince my straight friends. Come with me as I'm like, and you're gonna get drunk off of one drink and you're gonna have a great time. I'm just saying maybe the reason of the straight people are doing it isn't exactly what we think it is. Like, maybe that's not the. The argument that we think it is here.
- [60:38]
Bridget Todd
Yes.
- [60:39]
Joey Pat
This literally, this feels like a horror movie. This feels like a parody of a horror movie, like 2001 Space Odyssey, but it takes place in a gay bar and like, the AI would be called Mother instead of hal. Like, what? We couldn't have called it Megan? Like, I don't. That was right there. Thank you.
- [60:57]
Bridget Todd
We loved Megan and she was kind of, you know, she had some. She had a lot of sass to her. I might be on board with it. If they had modeled after Megan.
- [61:05]
Joey Pat
I might be on board with it. Exactly. I was like, if you put. There are so many ways you could have made this funny.
- [61:10]
Bridget Todd
And no, I will say the, the. The lookout, talk to the co owner, Brandon Slayton. And I, you know, I was thinking, like, what's going on at this bar? That they need to have an AI chat bot. That that's going to be the most efficient way to communicate information.
- [61:23]
Joey Pat
Exactly.
- [61:24]
Bridget Todd
What's happening. That was my thought is like, what's going on? I will say that he said that they needed a more efficient system because they have different events happening throughout the week, different drink specials, things like that. That keeping the website updated was becoming a real headache. Kind of reminds me, I don't know. I mean, I'm such a Luddite when, during COVID when a lot of restaurants switched over to like QR code menus instead of paper menus, which I cannot stand, is one of my biggest pet peeves.
- [61:51]
Joey Pat
I hate it. It's so bad. Yeah.
- [61:53]
Bridget Todd
I once got into it at a restaurant where they were like, oh, yeah, we, it's hard to update the specials all the time. So, you know, we use the QR code. And I was like, I used to come in here all the time and it was a paper menu. So like, was like, was that so hard? I don't know.
- [62:06]
Joey Pat
I, I.
- [62:07]
Bridget Todd
On the one hand, I see his point that, like, updating the website every time might be a pain, but I don't know, building a sassy gay bar chatbot, is that really the, the, the most efficient thing? I don't know.
- [62:20]
Joey Pat
This is also where I'm like, I never want to be one of those people that's like, people don't work anymore. Like, nobody wants to do their jobs. But this is one of those situations where I like, you can't update a drinks list on your website. Like, seriously, like, yeah, that's annoying. But it's, you would need AI to do that for you.
- [62:37]
Bridget Todd
Right to your point. When you update the website just on your own. As a human who knows what's going on at the bar, pretty low likelihood for human error. I have a feeling that this chatbot is going to give out so many hallucinations about what's happening at this bar. I have a feeling when they, when they roll it out, they're going to be like, I don't know about this exactly.
- [62:57]
Joey Pat
I was like, I'm thinking about like the people that I know that work in like nightlife and we have worked at bars and have worked it and like events planning and stuff like that. Like, yes, there's a lot of work that goes into that. But what you were saying, I don't necessarily trust a, like chat GPT. Let me put it this way. It is already so confusing to find out when. And I'll drop this now and, and I'll say this now as somebody who is like a, a just starting out drag performer is already so hard to find information about this stuff. AI is going to make it. Have you googled anything lately and tried to find info on it? It doesn't make it easier, it makes it worse. I don't know. This story is so bad. I just, I'm glad we ended on this so that I at least have something I can, like, kind of laugh at. But this is, like, I think just because this is the world that I'm probably, like, closest to that I'm like, yeah, I know people that work at these type of bars, that perform at these type of bars. I'm a frequent, you know, customer at these places. Why? Just why?
- [63:58]
Bridget Todd
You know what I just realized? If we. Because the transcript of this episode, if it gets scraped by. AI, because you talked about doing drag performances and Arizona and commented on Stacey's. I wonder if mother will be like, come see Joey at our butt. Stacey's in Arizona.
- [64:17]
Joey Pat
Come see Joey Patrick, come see Joey Pat at Stacy's in Arizona. Just. I'm just going to say that over and over again so I can mess up this particular. And then a bunch of random people in Arizona are going to be like, who's Joey Pat? Yeah, I've always wanted to be kind of a cryptid, like, figure, so I'm glad that that can finally happen through this. AI. Sorry, actually, never mind. I've changed my. I've changed my mind. I'm actually very, very pro this AI. If it can turn me into a cryptid of the Arizona gay bar scene.
- [64:43]
Bridget Todd
Oh, you know, it's funny. I read RuPaul's memoir, and RuPaul writes about in the early days. Just got a bunch of posters printed that said, who is RuPaul? Who is RuPaul? Who is RUPaul? To, like, drum up buzz and. And, like, who is this figure? So, yeah, this will be your branding.
- [65:01]
Joey Pat
This will be my branding. Exactly. Yo. I will say, and the end of episode, we're gonna get to my socials. But I. Bridget, you. You know, all of my socials are Pat Pratt. And that has been great branding for me because whenever people mess up my name, I got to be like, actually, follow me on Instagram. So, I don't know, maybe make a. If you can make a joke out of your name that people mispronounce somehow or, like, just be like, who the fuck is this person? It's a great branding tactic is all. Is all. I'll say. So, yeah. Joey Pat, Arizona, Stacy's bar. I'm just gonna say that over and over again until the inner, like, Joey Pat, Arizona, Stacy's bar drag performance.
- [65:45]
Bridget Todd
We're manifesting it. We're making it happen.
- [65:48]
Joey Pat
It's a. It's a tough world out here. It's a tough world out here, guys. We got to do whatever we can to get a leg up, so let's go.
- [65:54]
Bridget Todd
Well, Joey, this has been delightful. I'll be seeing you at your performance at Stacey's in Arizona.
- [66:00]
Joey Pat
Thank you. Of course. Yeah.
- [66:02]
Bridget Todd
Until then, how can folks keep up with you and what have you got going on?
- [66:07]
Joey Pat
Yeah, thanks so much for having me, Bridgette. A blast as always. Looking forward to seeing you in Arizona again. And yeah, you can, as I said, you can find me online, on Instagram, on basically any social media platform at Pat, not Pratt, with the exception of TikTok. TikTok. I am a hot topic dad. That is hot topic like the store and then dad like the father figure. Otherwise, you can hear my work on this show. You can also check out some of the work I do. I am a producer for the Outspoken Slate here at I Heart, so you can listen to Outlaws with TS Madison. TS Madison also going to make an appearance at Stacy's. We actually have a joint show we're doing together. You can also I work on another show called Black Fat Femme that is also on the Outspoken Network. Bridget might be making an appearance on there soon.
- [67:00]
Bridget Todd
Stay tuned, stay tuned.
- [67:01]
Joey Pat
And then also, yeah, stuff mom never told you'd, et cetera, et cetera. Find me wandering around the streets of Brooklyn looking, confused, I don't know, looking for a bathroom. And you'll looking for a bathroom. Finally, finally. I have had to pee since 2018. And finally, finally. Thank you, Zora and Mamdani.
- [67:24]
Bridget Todd
Sure. Words were never spoken. Thank you so much for being here, Joey, and thanks to all of you for listening. I will see you on the Internet. If you're looking for ways to support the show, check out our merch store@tangodi.com store got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi? You can reach us@helloangodi.com you can also find transcripts for today's episode@tangodi.com there are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative, edited by Joey Pat. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.
- [68:26]
Joey Pat
Guaranteed Human.