← There Are No Girls on the Internet
There Are No Girls on the Internet
Grammarly Stole Writers' Identities; Heated Rivalry Fanfic; Uber's Women-Only Rides; & Is Instagram Dying? – NEWS ROUNDUP
01:11:16
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- [00:00]
Pat Not Pratt
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Radhi Deblokia
Lately, my friends keep asking what I'm doing to my skin. Honestly, I didn't change my makeup, I changed my skincare. It's called Farmhouse Fresh. This award winning fresh grown brand is a 14 year favorite of us. Spas and beauty magazines and celebrities. Agree if you're over 40 and feel like nothing really makes a difference anymore, this does. My skin looks brighter, smoother and yes, people notice. Get the Farmhouse Fresh Skincare glow. Go to farmhousefreshskincare.com this is Radhi Deblokia
- [00:36]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
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- [01:37]
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- [02:10]
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- [02:56]
Bridget Todd
There Are no Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are no Girls on the Internet. Welcome to There Are no Girls on the Internet where we explore the intersection of technology, identity and social media. And this is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we dig into all the stories that you might have missed on the Internet this week. So you don't to. And if you're hearing a little extra twang or drawl in my voice, it is because I'm coming to you from Austin, Texas, where I'm here for south by Southwest, where I just finished a talk on why audiences do not like AI in their media. Y', all. I'm kind of geeked right now because after I finished that talk, I rushed over to see Steven Spielberg do a whole talk about aliens on the Big Picture Podcast with Sean Fennesee. I. I am basically in nerd heaven. It was awesome. But what is also awesome is having Joey back on the podcast. Joey, it is so nice to have you back on the show after Believe it or not, we've been making this podcast together for years. We finally met in person for the first time at the On Air Festival in New York City, which was delightful.
- [04:10]
Pat Not Pratt
We did. Yes. Yeah. So excited to be back on the show and it was so nice to finally meet you in person. Out Air Fest was great. Shout out to everybody that organized that. I'm wearing my hat that I got from it right now. It says ESPN Podcast, which has been great because I'm trying to do this bit right now where I pretend to know things about sports when I don't, which I think leads really well to our first story.
- [04:35]
Bridget Todd
Yes, that's a great segue. So I have to give a big caveat that I've only actually seen one episode of Heated Rivalry because I've just been very busy. But the online discourse around it has been supercharged. In a GQ piece called Do Normies have the Right to Read Heated Rivalry Fanfict by Catherine D. It breaks down how expectations around online fandom has created a lot of Tensions in the heated rivalry online discourse. A discourse, Joey, that I know that you're pretty tapped into.
- [05:05]
Pat Not Pratt
Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm so glad you brought this to my attention, Bridget. Caveat. Like you, I have the opposite. I've watched all of Heated Rivalry except for the last episode, which many of my friends are giving me shit about. To be fair, I keep doing this with TV shows. I don't know why. And Bridget, I know you also do this and you have a better reason than me. But, like, I will watch shows and then not watch the last episode.
- [05:29]
Bridget Todd
I do. I do the exact same thing. When I really love a show or it's meaningful to me. I won't watch the last episode because I can't bear the idea of there being know more of it to watch. And I like the feeling of saying, oh, I can still watch one more. So I haven't watched the last episode of Hacks because I loved it so much. I haven't even ever watched the last episode of 30 Rock, which was like 10 years ago.
- [05:50]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I was hacks at least there's like a new season coming out, so there's like a deadline for that. But I. For me, it's more that I think I just have commitment issues. But yeah, anyways, I love the show. Yeah, I. Bridget, you know, my favorite thing to talk about is fan fiction. So I'm so ready for this. I think specifically, I do want to break up at the top because the thing that I think is interesting about heated rivalry and talking about heated rivalry and fan fiction specifically is that it started as a fan fiction. I'm. I'm not into. I know there's like two stories. One of them is like, actually I think about like hockey players or something. I again, don't know about sports, so whatever. I know. I think, like, Alien Shane is like, actually based on hockey players, but like the whole Scott and Kip storyline, that is based on Captain America fan fiction, which was really big for me as somebody who spent a lot of their formative years reading Captain America fan fiction.
- [06:47]
Bridget Todd
So when it comes to heated rivalry, here's what's going down. So there was a recent New York mag cover story about heated rivalry and fujoshi, which is a Japanese word for women who enjoy romantic and sexual stories about men. And this sparked a lot of online conversation. The author, E. Alex Jung, had included direct links to fan fiction about heated rivalry posted to AO3 or archive of our Own, which is like a fan fiction platform. Many people felt like this was a problem since it was essentially sending A large mainstream audience to this community, specific, mostly under pseudonyms, writing platform never meant for them. And so While it's true AO3 is not a private space, people who show up there kind of treat it as if it's a semi private online community with some expectation of it being only for, quote, insiders in the know and not necessarily for what you might consider to be like a normie audience. As Katherine D. Puts it in her piece for gq, the debate touches on something fundamental about the experience of online spaces. And it has further reaching implications than it might seem. The Internet has a geography. It is a place more than it is a communication tool. It has cities and towns and houses and rooms and rooms within rooms. Each region of the Internet has its own culture and dialect and etiquette. The Internet also has places that are public in the technical sense, but private in the social one. Yes, AO3 is a website that anyone can visit, browse, sign up and make an account on. But many fans perceive it less like a public square and more like a communal living room.
- [08:27]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I have conflicting thoughts on this one because so I read the. The original piece that came out that was in New York Magazine, shout out to the many, many people that sent me that over Instagram. I'm glad that I have a brand, apparently. Like, I read the article and I honestly, I was like, oh, this is cool. This is like a. Like, I was like, this is an area of like Internet culture that I'm really interested in. I've been a part of. I thought it was a good kind of take on that. I understand the frustration specifically with the fact that he linked to these fan fictions and I understand why people maybe weren't super happy with that. I think we're gonna get a little bit more into this. But I think, like, there's like this assumed maybe not like, this isn't. This is maybe not assuming that it's private, but assuming like it's going to stay in this corner of the Internet and it's like not really going to breach containment. And I think, like, I understand that, like, when it does breach containment, that's annoying and upsetting, but also, like, because of how A3 works, like you said, it's like a lot of people use pseudonyms, a lot of people, like, there's ways to make it more private. There's ways to keep your actual identity off of it. So that to me is more like, all right, in my book, it's like you wrote this thing, you put it on the Internet, you kind of lose Control of what happens to it.
- [09:50]
Bridget Todd
Well, she reveals that exact tension in the piece, where, on the one hand, this is in no way an underground community. It might feel niche, but, you know, it's really not. Fan fiction is not niche like it used to be. You know, there was a time, I'm old enough to remember the time where if you were engaging in, like, niche fandom communities online, they were. They. They were public, but they felt so small and off the radar that it was unlikely that a journalist would wander in there and start writing about it. But in here, in 2026, that's not really the case anymore.
- [10:22]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I mean, even, like, thinking about, like, when I was a teenager, like, 10 years ago, like, in these spaces and writing fan fiction and, like, reading a lot of this stuff. Not that I don't also do that now, but whatever. Anyways, it was like, it was a very different environment I've, like, talked about on this podcast. Like, I was really on Tumblr. Like, that was, like, my main platform when I was a teenager. I think, like, it's really interesting with, like, fandom stuff, seeing it kind of move to Tick Tock and the way that Tick Tock is so much more, like, public, like, your face is literally attached to it, versus I'm like, I don't like any of the fandom stuff that I did back when I was 16. There's no way to connect it back to me. My face was not on it. My name was not on it. It was on some. I don't even remember which Tumblr. I had so many different usernames at that point. I'm like, I don't even remember which one. Like, it would have been on.
- [11:11]
Bridget Todd
And the GQ piece really plays at the tension that you were sort of getting at of, what is it? What are the implications of when this thing that feels private but actually isn't private is, like, talked about and amplified in these ways? You know, on the one hand, this is in no way an underground community. That's just the bottom line. But it is also reasonable to not want what feels like your private little corner of the web. Or you can be like your freaky little weird self, which we love being turned into a public spectacle, like, and, like, blown up. And so the piece returns to this analogy of being filmed in public. Nobody wants to be filmed in public, but when you go out in public on a public street, you actually have no expectation of privacy. So it's perfectly legal to film people in public, even though nobody likes that. And so that analogy really made a lot of sense to me. And. And I just think it's interesting from the perspective of a journalist. Like, I bumped up against this when I was writing my audiobook Love at First Prompt, because I was essentially lurking in what felt like semi private spaces. Subreddits like My boyfriend is AI where people go to talk about their intimate connections with AI. These conversations are obviously sensitive and intimate and like, delicate. These are people who are talking about things that have. That have garnered a lot of scrutiny because of the things that they're talking about. And so it does feel weird to be silently lurking in these communities, publishing anonymously what some of these people are saying so that I can create commentary around it, but then wondering about the ethics of that. And the ethics are clear, right? Like, if you write something on Reddit and a public subreddit that's on the Internet for everybody to see whoever wants to respond to that, blow that up, amplify that they can. But I understand the sort of, like, tension that she's getting at because it does raise. I wrestled with how to handle that when I was putting together the book. And she really nails that tension in the GQP. She writes, the impulse to gatekeep AO3 to insist that journalists should honor community norms that they never agreed to is understandable, but it runs up against a hard reality. You can lock your AO3 account or post to invite only spaces, but what people actually want is harder to guarantee. They want to publish openly, but to only be read by the right people. That is something both the Internet and our broader culture used to provide briefly and accidentally, and most likely never will again. Obscurity worked when fandom was small, but it no longer is. And no amount of gatekeeping will ever bring the halcyon days of the early 2000s back. Yeah, I.
- [13:56]
Pat Not Pratt
We really need to do a full episode about A three at some point because I have so much to say to this. But I. Yeah, I think she put it really well. Like I said, I understand that impulse to gatekeep again. Again, as somebody who's like, I've written some really bad fan fiction out there. Again, totally anonymous. Which is why I'm, like, not embarrassed by that fact. Because I was like, yeah, I made this when I was like, 16 and it was fun. Like, I. I think that's actually a good thing to do. I don't know. But yeah, I think it is. Like, we're at a such a weird time with, like, fandom culture where I think, like, like she said, like, fandom isn't small anymore. It's become so much more mainstream. Like trying to look at it from the perspective of like, why people want to keep this contained, keep this anonymous. I get that it's annoying to have people like coming into your weird nerdy space that you just like don't want to. Whatever. I. I get that I'm the same way. I also think like, like she said, you can lock your account, you can make it. You only have you. You have to have an AO3 account to read people's fan fictions. Most people don't have their name on it. And that to me, that to me, I think it's like more of an issue of like, this is why it's important to protect online spaces where you can be anonymous. Because that's such a great, like, creative tool for people. Because like, at the end of the day, and this is where I have like a more positive take on this where I'm like, I actually think it is good that people are talking about this more AO3. Like when you think about it, you think about like platforms where you can like create things and make media. Fan fiction is like one of the few kind of forms of media right now. You just like cannot monetize at all, like unless you turn it into a original story later on. But most writers aren't going into fan fiction being like, I'm gonna make money off of it. Like, they're doing it for the love of the game. And that to me is like, we get so little. Like there's so few examples of that right now that like I always say, like, AO3 is genuinely like one of the sites online right now. Like, is like one of the few websites right now that like gives me hope for like the future of the Internet and people be able. Being able to like create things on the Internet because of that. Because it's like you can't monetize it. There is no algorithm. You literally are just like posting to it. This is, yeah, just people doing it for the love of the game. And to me, like, I think that's like a really important part of like creating art. I. Yeah, like, I was very like, yeah, ashamed of the fact that I like wrote fan fiction growing up. I didn't talk to anybody about it. But also like, that was one of the earliest ways I was able to like, engage in non engaging like creative writing in a way that was like, felt accessible at the time. We just need people creating more art and like, I think if you want to create art, you should do it and like I guess like my main takeaway is I get the anxiety around these articles. I got the impulse to want to gatekeep. I also think like, there's no harm in just like creating things. And part of me is like, you know what? Yeah. If we're like becoming more open about that, if we're saying like, fuck cringe, embrace the cringe. Read, write as much fanfiction as you want. Like, that doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
- [17:12]
Bridget Todd
You heard it here first, folks. Embrace the cringe. You never know where, how far it will take you.
- [17:18]
Pat Not Pratt
You never know. Literally. I mean, like, I'll be real. It has genuinely, like, given me a lot of like, I. I think it's really beautiful that this was a series that yeah, started as a. Just somebody writing this for fun, which is what a lot of art starts as. And then it turns into this thing that resonates with a lot of people. Best case scenario, you make the biggest TV show of the year. Worst case scenario, you made a fun piece of art and had fun.
- [17:49]
Bridget Todd
Let's take a quick break.
- [17:56]
Radhi Deblokia
Lately my friends keep asking what I'm doing to my skin. Honestly, I didn't change my makeup. I changed my skincare. It's called Farmhouse Fresh. This award winning fresh grown brand is a 14 year favorite of us. Spas and beauty magazines and celebrities agree. If you're over 40 and feel like nothing really makes a difference anymore, this does. My skin looks brighter, smoother and yes, people notice. Get the Farmhouse Fresh Skincare glow. Go to farmhousefreshskincare.com this is Radhi Devlukia
- [18:27]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
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- [19:29]
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- [21:00]
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- [21:37]
Bridget Todd
And we're back. Okay, so speaking of writing, y' all have probably all heard this by now, but I could not stop thinking about the Grammarly thing it is. I just can't stop thinking about it. So if you don't know what's going on. Grammarly, the AI writing tool, had this feature that used AI to simulate editorial feedback. So it would make it seem like you're getting editorial feedback or an editorial critique from real named living specific people. Like, you could ask Grammarly to give you feedback in the style of novelist Stephen King or tech journalist Kara Swisher. Notably, Grammarly did not get permission from any of the hundreds of real alive human experts included in this feature that they called Expert Review. Side note, whenever some platform is rolling out some kind of dubious, questionable thing, they always have to give it a cutesy name that actually obscures how awful it truly is. So this is from the Verge, where they found that numerous other tech journalists named in this feature, including former Verge editors Casey Newton and Joanna Stern, former Verge writer Monica Chin, Wired's Lauren Good, Bloomberg's Mark Gurman and Jason Shearer, the New York Times, Kashmir Hill, the Atlantics Caitlin Tiffany, PC Gamers, West Benlon, Gizmodo's Raymond Wong, and many, many more. The descriptions for some of the experts also contain inaccuracies like outdated job titles, which the Verge notes, Grammarly could have actually updated in a correct way had they just reached out to these people for permission to reference their work and their name. So that, to me, I just find that to be like, I don't even know. Usually when I hear a story like this, I have some sense of how we got here, where it's like, oh, well, they miscalculated in this way or they overlooked this. I genuinely don't have an answer for how they. How Grammarly got this so wrong. I genuinely don't.
- [23:48]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, this is one of those things with a lot of AI stuff for, like, genuinely, my immediate reaction is just sort of like, why? Like, what's the point? And maybe that's me, I guess, like, if you just like, really want to have, like, journalists, like, I just don't see the point of it. Or if you're gonna have like, somebody commenting, like, wouldn't you want it to be like something kind of funny? Like, I don't know, like in the style of like, Larry David or some, like, I don't know, I feel like that I'm like, okay, no, I. I don't know. I don't know. Again, my response to most AI stuff is just kind of like, okay, but like, what's the point? Like, why? Why would I want to do that?
- [24:25]
Chelsea Handler / Sonesta Ad Voice
Yes.
- [24:26]
Bridget Todd
And, you know, if you asked ChatGPT to give you feedback in the style of some public figure or like journalist or voice, I'm sure it would do it. There was just something about Grammarly taking it upon themselves to offer up advice from these, these people that I just find so strange. In his outlet, platformer Casey Newton actually showed Kara Swisher what kind of advice Grammarly was giving that they named as in her style or in her voice. And she said, quote, you rapacious information and identity thieves better get ready for me to go full McConaughey on you. Also, you suck. Which I wonder if that's the spot like the style of response that Grammarly's AI was suggesting to people. So now, according to TechCrunch, one of the writers, journalist Julia Anguin, has filed a class action lawsuit against Superhuman, which is the parent company that owns Grammarly, arguing that Superhuman violated the privacy and publicity rights of her and other writers that they impersonated. Because this is a class action lawsuit, other writers who were impersonated in this way or had their names or likenesses used can join the class. In a statement, Anguin said, I have worked decades honing my skills as a writer and editor, and I am distressed to discover that a tech company is selling an imposter version of my hard earned expertise. So something else I have to just sort of pause on for a moment is that when this was first reported and all the writers were thinking, what the hell? And responding, also doing this to tech journalists, I feel like, is so wild to me because it's like these are people who are not afraid to speak up. They've made careers speaking up. Like, of all the people that you would not want to enrage through impersonation of their likeness, tech journalists, I can't think of. I can't think of like, people who are worse to do this too. But so when all the journalists were speaking up at first, Grammarly was like, okay, heard you. Writers do not like this. So our compromise is that we're going to let the writers opt out if they don't want their names and likenesses used without permission, which to me is like, wow, y', all, that was the worst little attempt at a fix that y' all could have done. But then eventually they pulled. They did pull the feature altogether. And I think that little digression into saying, like, well, fine, y' all can opt out if you don't like it really reveals Grammarly. And also a lot of AI companies, their first instinct, right? When confronted with the fact that they had used all these people's names and reputations and likenesses without their Permission. It was not to apologize and take it down, but to offer this opt out.
- [27:16]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I, I feel like could do a drinking game with the show where like every time the word like opt out is said, that could be a big one. I don't know. I feel like that feels like the, basically every response now is like, oh, we're going to do this terrible thing, but you can opt out of it. Which is great. I love, I love that that's my responsibility now. Like in, in a sort of morbidly curious way, I do wonder like, what would my AI tone be towards editing somebody's writing. But yeah, no, that's, man, can't keep doing this.
- [28:01]
Bridget Todd
It's so bad. And I just think this dynamic where the burden should be on the writers to go reclaim their identities from this for profit product that they never agreed to be in relationship with in the first place. I just think it tells you everything about how these companies think about consent. It's just they, it's something that is like they're not thinking about it at all and it's only something that they offer in the most disingenuous way when they're caught. And I just think that the idea that like the, like the fact that one of these writers is starting a class action lawsuit, that's not cheap, right? Having to get an attorney, having to do a lawsuit, that is not cheap. But like that assumption that we can use what you made, we can use what you built, we can use your name and who you are, you can come and ask us nicely to stop, but that legal fight is like yours to fund. That opt out form is yours to figure out, yours to find it. It's up to you to know that this is even happening in the first place. Because like, had this not blown up online, I don't think people would have known those burdens are just always on the creator. So that actually reminds me of this other story that I saw shout out to Matt grokut over at PetaPixel for covering a very similar and also similarly upsetting story. So this guy, Gerald Carter, founded Diversity photos back in 2016. I remember when this happened. I remember Diversity Photos. If you've ever tried to find stock images, a lot of stock image websites are not very diverse. And so Diversity Photos was meant to be a stock photo library specifically built to serve communities that are often historically underrepresented in stock photos. He spent years recruiting real, traditionally marginalized people, getting proper consent and like building something genuinely valuable and scarce that filled a need. So in 2018, he partnered with Adobe to distribute these photos through Adobe stock. Now, back in 2018, like, AI was a thing, but it was not a thing thing like it is now. And so generative AI tools simply did not exist the way they exist now. So in whatever contract he signed with Adobe stock, certainly there was no carve out for how those images would be used to train AI, because that wasn't a thing yet, really. So he partners with Adobe to distribute the diverse stock images through Adobe stock. Should be all good, right? Well, in 2023, Adobe launched Firefly, its AI image generator. Now, I remember this too. I think we might have covered it on the podcast. I can't remember that, but I remember that they marketed it as a platform that was going to really respect creator rights at a time when a lot of voices were talking about, like, AI and creator rights. It was like a very splashy launch where Adobe said all the right stuff. So Carter, when they released this, quickly realized that Adobe had fed his entire diverse stock photo library into Adobe's Firefly training data without asking, without even attempting to get some sort of separate license or contract, and notably without any compensation. They just were like, oh, you get you partnered with us in this one capacity. We can use that in our AI. So when he pushed back, Adobe's position was that the 2018 distribution agreement that they had already gave them the right to do this, pointing to language about content for, quote, developing new features and services. Carter told Petapixel. When I found out that Adobe had fed our entire library into their AI training pipeline without asking, without a separate license, and without any compensation, it was devastating. They didn't just use a few images. They ingested our content and used it to build products that now directly compete with us. Adobe's AI can now generate the same kind of diverse imagery that we spent years and significant resources creating. They took our competitive advantage and turned it into their feature. That is so messed up. Now, Carter says that that clause was about improving the platform, not building a competing AI product, because he's probably thinking, I would have never agreed to let my images that I spent years and resources and money curating be used to create a competitor that I didn't agree to. Like, he was like, I probably would never have agreed to that. So Adobe's argument is essentially that the word new means anything new under the sun, including technology that did not exist when the contract was signed. Which, that is a terrible contract. Like, why would somebody ever sign that? That's like, what the hell?
- [32:51]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, we could just. We could Just do whatever you want,
- [32:53]
Bridget Todd
whatever we want for.
- [32:54]
Pat Not Pratt
For however time.
- [32:56]
Bridget Todd
It's like a Ron Swanson contract from Parks and Recreation that just says I can do whatever I want.
- [33:01]
Pat Not Pratt
I do what I want. It's like, that's just every corporation now. I. God, this was so long ago, but I'm thinking about the, like, what was it? Disney, like, sued this couple who like, died or this person like, died at Disney World or something. Like, it was like one of those things. I remember just like, oh, well, you couldn't have sued Disney.
- [33:23]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, yeah, they had signed up for like a Jesus Christ Disney plus and then she died from an allergy, a food allergy at a Disney theme park. And they were like, well, you clicked yes when you wanted that Disney plus streaming subscription, therefore you can't sue us.
- [33:40]
Pat Not Pratt
Good fucking Lord.
- [33:43]
Bridget Todd
I don't know.
- [33:44]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I don't know. I keep it. I've had a lot of people in my life recently, like, ask me questions about AI and like, AI in the entertainment industry specifically and stuff. And I feel like I've genuinely reached the point where I just keep being like, I don't know, man, I'm just gonna hope for the best and hope that we don't totally like. And then, I don't know, it's so like, I'm trying to not be like, wow, it's so bleak. We're all so screwed because of this. But then I'm like, I sure any. We're signing away our rights to anything new. Anything new.
- [34:18]
Bridget Todd
Anything new. I can do what I want. So Adobe offered Carter just a little over a thousand dollars in what they called a quote bonus fee for nearly 12,000 images that they use to train AI models that their company now monetizes through subscriptions. Now, Carter points out that this was not a licensing fee. They did not call it compensation, they called it a bonus quote, as if they were doing me a favor. And they made it clear that they didn't even believe they were required to pay that under the agreement. It showed a fundamental disrespect for the value of what we've created and the communities that we respect. So Carter was like, you can take your money and shove it. He rejected that money. And just for some context, a single one year license of his library of stock images for AI evaluation purposes can run into hundreds of thousands of dollars. And Adobe is like, oh, actually we get it for free, but we'll throw you a thousand dollars just as a little bit of a bonus. I can understand why, like, folks should read the article. It's a really well done article. And like, I can understand why he is so hurt and dejected because this is just, just, just very disrespectful. This is a disrespectful way. It's disrespectful to act like you care about representing these communities, enjoy all of this like splashy positive PR about how you respect creators and then do somebody like this who was in partnership with you trying to fill an actual need in, in the way that we're represented online and imprinted an image like it's just so disrespectful. And I can understand why this. My man sounds pissed. And every quote in the piece. My man sounds pissed. So Carter engaged in this legal fight and he says it was kind of designed to basically just spend down his money financially. And you know, obviously Adobe has tons of money. They are not hurting for cash. And he's one person. And so there was an arbitration clause in his contract that said that Adobe would cover the cost if he could not afford them. But Adobe just allegedly refused to honor that clause. And then the arbitrator sided with Adobe's framing. So Carter had to withdraw from his last remaining legal claim because he said he couldn't afford the $24,000 fee just to argue his case. He just couldn't afford it. And so it really connects back to the story we were just talking about where, you know, it's these companies, I believe, stealing from people and misusing people's work and their labor and their talent and then saying, okay, well if you have a problem with it, fight us in court. And again, I'm happy that the writers who were had their likenesses taken by Grammarly are trying to do a class action suit. That's great, but it shouldn't. The burden should not be on individuals to go up against these massive companies that have massive resources. Lawyers on retainer is just a really system.
- [37:20]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah. And it's, and it's like, it's one of those things. It's sort of like with, especially with this guy in the story, like how was he supposed to know? AI has moved so quickly in the last couple years. Like so many of us have some sort of. I have shared a lot of my photography online. I'm sure some of that is like gone mine for AI stuff. If you're, again, if you're somebody who like wrote fan fiction at some point, that's probably. Or any sort of like online story, you know, that you just like publish that people can like access like that's Getting one. And it's all stuff that you wouldn't like, I wouldn't have thought through at the time being like, oh yeah, one day people are just gonna make a bunch of copies. Like, like that was like an issue that we didn't even know was gonna happen. Which is like, what's frustrating here. I mean, like, I think we were talking like, Bridget, we've talked about kind of like the AI, like voice training stuff too and all that.
- [38:14]
Bridget Todd
Right.
- [38:14]
Pat Not Pratt
I, like, was talking to a friend recently where I said something that I was like, yeah, no, of course I would like never sign away my voice or something like that. But also there's so many recordings of me speaking online at this point that somebody could very easily just like take that and make an AI thing out of it without my permission. So that's cool. I love that we just have like, no say over our image anymore. It's really cool and really great. And I think is a sign of progress and art becoming more democratized, obviously. And not just like the fact that. I don't know, I don't know. I just, I swear I've heard the like, the art, the art argument. So like, way more in the past few months than I expected to. And I was like, it genuinely is like having like, I like had multiple moments where I had to be like, what the are we talking about? Like, what reality are you living in? Like, I, I don't know. This is great. This is great. I feel so good about the future right now.
- [39:12]
Bridget Todd
Very well. Society we have here. More after a quick break.
- [39:25]
Radhi Deblokia
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- [39:56]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
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- [42:21]
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- [42:59]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. Okay, so shout out to 404 Media for this next story about Quitter, which is an app that promises to help men stop watching pornography. Well, that app that promised to help men get their pornography viewing under control also leaked intimate data on hundreds of thousands of those men, many of whom are not mad at all. They're minors, they're kids. And to be clear, we're talking about information that includes their masturbation habits and the app. Quitter, according to 404, lied about the security issues that they knew the app was experiencing. So, Interestingly enough, when 404 first found out about this app and reported about its security issues back in January, they couldn't do so by naming the app because Twitter had not yet fixed these issues. And so they thought like, oh well, if we report on the security issues and we name the app, that could just make the situation worse because it'll be like a bat signal to hackers because they haven't fixed this. The piece reads that they reported Quitter exposing user data in January, but we were unable to name Quitter in the story because its creators, Alex slater and Connor McLaren, did not fix its security issues, despite multiple requests and an offer from an independent researcher to help them fix the problem. Naming the app while hackers were still able to easily steal Quitter's user data would have endangered their privacy and put them at risk of extortion from hackers, which is very common today. Some of the data exposed includes the user's age, how often they masturbate, and how viewing pornography makes them feel. According to that data, many of them are minors and so this is awful. It reminds me quite a lot of the T app, which 404 Media also investigated, where app developers they claim to care about some super intimate or super sensitive gendered issue and they make an app around it and then just do not meaningfully demonstrate the most basic standard level of care to this vulnerable community that they care that they claim to want to be protecting or helping. What they actually want to be doing is just like getting rich. As 404 writes, Quitter is operated by Slater and McLaren, members of the so called app Mafia Gross, a group of men in their early 20s who claim to have made millions of dollars on mobile app development. Slater and McLaren were recently subjects of a long New York Mag profile which detailed the opulent lifestyle the success of Quitter has afforded them, including driving, exotic, supercars and living in a Miami mansion. Slater shares videos about his lifestyle on his personal YouTube channel as well. So I checked out Alex Slater's YouTube and it's exactly the kind of soulless rich guy in his 20s who lives in Miami YouTube vlog content that you would imagine it's him, like, on a balcony of a condo in Miami with, like, palm trees behind him or doing boxing lessons or, like, doing a backflip into an infinity pool just the most. Like, basically, you're exploiting young people who are vulnerable so that you can live the most boring, soulless, cookie cutter, rich kid, asshole, normie douchebag existence on social media possible. It's just so boring.
- [46:30]
Pat Not Pratt
I mean, that's what my Instagram looks like. So, I don't know.
- [46:33]
Bridget Todd
Sounds like actually Zoe doing a backflip.
- [46:38]
Pat Not Pratt
No, if I, if, if I could do. If I could do a backflip, I would post constantly about it.
- [46:45]
Bridget Todd
Side note, I used to be able. Like, my thing when I was growing up was how good I was at backflips. And my friends and I, when I was in junior high, we went as the Spice Girls for Halloween and I was the only black girl in the group. And so they were like, oh, you gotta be scary. But I was like, actually, I should be sporty because one, she wears sports bras and I wore sports bras all the time. And two, she was always doing backflips and I could do a backflip.
- [47:08]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, no, I'm so jealous. I unfortunately cannot do a backflip and never could, but I really would love to. I haven't, like, tried to, like, learn how to, but I would, I would love if I could just wake up one day and do a backflip. Yeah, no, I agreed. It is like, it's always the same kind of dude. They're always in Miami. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, this whole, like, the whole premise behind this app too, is, like, depressing on it. Like, it's like, I don't think too. Where it's like, I. Yeah, it's like there is such a moral panic around porn and around masturbation right now. And I'm willing to assume that, like, the majority of the users are probably people. People that are, like, more affected by that than like, actual, like, sex addiction or anything. Again, I don't know. Like, this is speculative, but I think, like, like, just hearing all the story and, and tandem with, like, yeah, a lot of the weird, like, alt right. Online discourse about, like, masturbation, about sex for, like, young men. It's like, yeah, I'm not surprised that, like, a lot of these are teenagers and, like, that probably is a deeper issue we should, you know, talk about.
- [48:23]
Bridget Todd
Oh, yes. There is actually a fantastic episode that does a deep dive into this of the podcast panic world about how the no FAP movement, which is like a movement that tries to get people to stop masturbating and sort of the porn rejection movement, can sometimes, like, if you like, there are people who legitimately feel like porn, just like any other thing, has become a. An issue in their life that they don't feel they have control over, but. And that's like, a valid thing. However, the episode really makes a very interesting argument about how that feeling, which in a lot of cases can be valid, can also be so easily exploited toward extremism and just sort of extremist ways of thinking. It's a feeling. It's such an interesting episode. We'll put the link in the show notes. But, yeah, I guess. I guess I agree with you that we're just in a climate where it's so hard to have nuanced conversations about sex and young people and what healthy attitudes around those things look like for folks. And I think these people are really exploiting that. That we. That we don't have a lot of places to have nuanced conversations about how to have a healthy relationship with sex and pornography and masturbation and, you know,
- [49:37]
Pat Not Pratt
if they just made an AO3.com account. Right. Trying to make a joke.
- [49:45]
Bridget Todd
I'm thinking of what you're putting down.
- [49:47]
Pat Not Pratt
I'm just bringing it back. Yeah, yeah. Fun fact. I did at one point. I'm not denying the fact that there's, like, a lot of porn in AO3. There is, but I did have a partner at one point who I would talk a lot about fanfiction. And the entire time, he assumed that I was just talking about porn. And it literally took, like, months of this happening before he, like, said something about it. And I was like, you think I've been talking about porn this entire time? Like, are you? I was like, again, like, I'm like, I'm not denying that there was some in there, but, like, damn. Like, you really just let me go on about this thing for months thinking I was just talking about porn the entire time.
- [50:26]
Bridget Todd
Dang. They bring up porn at the dinner table. They bring it up at party.
- [50:30]
Pat Not Pratt
Talk about it all the time. I was like, there were some points, too. I was like. I definitely was like, yeah, you should read some of this. You would like it like, you're a writer. You like this stuff. And I'm like, I love that you sat through me having that conversation. And, yeah, like, took you months to be like, you're talking about porn. I was like, well, not necessarily, but I got. I basically take away the day.
- [50:53]
Bridget Todd
Any.
- [50:54]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
Any.
- [50:55]
Pat Not Pratt
Everything you need on the Internet is on AO3. You don't need anything else. I think we're good.
- [50:59]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
So.
- [50:59]
Bridget Todd
These guys sound like such assholes to me. In that New York mag profile, one of them is quoted as saying, quote, we were like, how can we build an app to make money? Then I realized how large the issue was. That's when it became more of a passion project. Like, how can we help men actually become men again? I just hate that so much. And, like, according to them, I mean, I. Yeah, like the way that these first of all, go look at this guy's YouTube and tell me that, like, this is the person that you think is the model for healthy masculinity. So it does sound like this app is having some success. According to the creators, Twitter has supposedly been downloaded more than 1.5 million times, and they say it brings in $500,000 a month. But despite these incredible numbers and all of this money and all of these downloads, the developers were somehow unable or unwilling to fix this major security flaw that was putting their users, many of whom are minors, at risk for months. So, yeah, you'll forgive me if I don't think these sound like people who are meaningfully invested in helping the men and boys that are making them rich by using their apps. If they cannot even make the bare minimum investment in protecting the very sensitive information that these people are giving to these app developers.
- [52:23]
Pat Not Pratt
Explain how that works to be. How is men not masturbating, making them more masculine? Like, I feel like, can we. There's no consensus here. Either you have to be, like, hypersexual or, like, not having sex at all. Like, I. I'm confused. I'm confused.
- [52:42]
Bridget Todd
Well, that's what I'm saying. I just think we have a dynamic where men and boys have these, you know, valid anxieties around what does it mean to be man? And then you have these charlatans who just want to get rich basically stepping in and saying, we can help you be, quote, a real man. Give me your money. And then just exploiting these anxieties and vulnerabilities that. That they're expressing. And I guess in a well culture, we would have more healthy spaces for folks who feel like they are genuinely struggling with pornography or whatever. Instead of just hand your hand your most sensitive information about this vulnerable part of yourself over to a charlatan so that he can be taking a boxing class and driving a Lamborghini in Miami. Like, like that. Like, it's like, oh, can you do healthy spaces and meaningful nuanced conversation? Best I can do is scam you and I get rich off of it. You know, like it, it infuriates me. So the researcher said that he could access the information of more than 600,000 users of the app, including 100,000 of which that he identified as minors. And so, mind you, this app invites users to write confessions about their masturbation habits. One of them wrote, I just can't do this, man. I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I'm such a loser. I need serious help. These are real people, possibly even like teens who downloaded this app because they were struggling or like vulnerable and they trusted the person on the other side of the screen who built this app. And that person did not give a damn about them because if they did give a damn about them, they would have built in the most basic security features to protect their sensitive information. And like, the story is so awful. A journalist called the app, one of the app developers, to find out what was going on. And even though the app developers had previously confirmed like, oh, this is a problem, we're going to fix it, thanks for pointing it out. They told this journalist there isn't a problem and then hung up on them. And so yeah, I just feel like these people, they're just so cynical and gross and self interested and I hate how lazily and sloppily they're able to weaponize folks's vulnerabilities so that they can get rich. And I just, I guess I would call, I would caution, there are so many apps like this. Like, I think, like this is not a one off story. There are so many spaces and people and stuff online that are about ex, that wrap it in the language of healing and self improvement and leveling up and all of that. It's about extracting money and data and moving on to the next crift. And I'm just, I'm just sick of it. More after a quick break.
- [55:33]
Radhi Deblokia
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Solaray Magnesium Ad Voice
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- [55:53]
Radhi Deblokia
My skin looks brighter, smoother and yes, people notice. Get the Farmhouse Fresh Skincare glow. Go to farmhousefreshskincare.com this is Radhi Deblookia
- [56:04]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
from a really good cry. I absolutely love being outdoors, even if it's just stepping outside for a bit of fresh air between meals or taking a mindful walk to clear my head. But the one thing that can really ruin that is when my feet feel cramped in my shoes. So I switched to ultra running and honestly, it makes such a difference. What I love most is their signature Ultra Fit, Comfort, Balance strength. They have this roomy toe box that lets my toes actually spread and move naturally. So I really appreciate that and I feel more grounded and balanced with every single step. It's like my feet can finally do their job using all those little muscles that make me feel stronger the more I move. Whether you are a marathon runner, beginner or advanced, or just getting outside to train, Altras have become my go to for running and moving Mindful. They fit so well, they're so comfortable and they just move with you. Shop now at ultrarunning.com and use my code CRY10 for 10% off. That's a L T R-A running.com experience Altra and stay out there.
- [57:00]
Chelsea Handler / Sonesta Ad Voice
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- [58:02]
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- [58:40]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. Okay, so we have to talk about this new Uber feature that they just rolled out that allows both women riders and women drivers across the US to only be matched with other women for trips. Uber had initially launched this as a pilot program in a few states, but now it is rolling out nationwide. This despite an ongoing class action lawsuit against this women only drivers slash riders policy in California, which was filed by Uber drivers who argue that it discriminates against men. Lyft, a rival ride sharing company, also faced a similar discrimination lawsuit over a similar offering that it issued nationwide in 2024, according to the AP. So, according to Uber's blog, this feature allows women to request a female driver. Through an option called Women Drivers, passengers can opt for another ride if the wait for a woman is too long. They can also reserve a trip with a woman driver in advance. A third option allows female users to set a preference for a female driver in the app settings, which would increase the chances of being matched with a woman, but doesn't guarantee it. Uber also allows teen account users to request women drivers. Uber's women drivers can set the app's preferences to request trips with female riders, and then they can turn off that preference anytime that they want. Now, Uber says that they hope that this will help attract more women drivers. I know what you're thinking. What about trans women? What about non binary folks? Well, unlike Lyft's Women Connect program, Uber's feature is not open to riders or drivers who identify as non binary, according to the ap. For drivers, Uber says the company just relies on the gender listed on somebody's driver's license, meaning that for trans women, their ability to use the feature basically kind of depends on whether or not their state allows them to change their gender identification on documents. So kind of goes back to what we talked about a few episodes ago with Kansas. Like I think this rollout,
- [60:51]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
I have
- [60:51]
Bridget Todd
a lot of thoughts about this rollout. I'll put it that way.
- [60:54]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I have a question here. I have a question here because like Bridget, have you ever had the experience of like having like calling an Uber, getting the profile picture and like the name and it's like a woman. It's a woman's name. It's like, feminine name. And then you get in the car and there's like, a man. It's not the person. Because, like. Like, my question is, I'm like, okay, but what's stopping people from doing that? Like, I. This is the first I'm hearing that they need to, like, check their driver's license. Because I was like, I have definitely had that happen a couple times. And, like, I don't know, for me, it was never a. Like, oh, my God, this feels like it's a nefarious whatever. Like, I was like, sure, whatever. I'm sure you did that for whatever reason. But, yeah, that's my main question is just like, how do you even enforce that policy? I don't know.
- [61:39]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I've had that experience more with food delivery where it says, sheila is coming with your order. And I'm like, I don't think. I don't know if you're Sheila. You don't match this picture. I always assume it's like, somebody couldn't use the app for some reason, and so now they're using, like, a girlfriend's account or a friend's account. That's why I always assume. But that's a good question of, like, I don't know how strict the enforcement is on any of this. Just the whole way down. I don't know how strict the enforcement is on any of this. Just full stop. In response to this policy to California, Uber drivers filed a class action lawsuit against Uber, arguing that by potentially giving female drivers access to a wider pool of passengers, the feature violates California's Unruh act, which prohibits sex discrimination by business enterprises. The lawsuit also argues that Uber's policy reinforces the gender stereotype that men are more dangerous than women. So the AP spoke to Ann Olivrious, who is a co founder of a law firm that specializes in sex discrimination and harassment cases. And she said that she believes that rideshare companies like Uber and Lyft have a strong case against discrimination litigation because the future addresses an urgent business need to protect clients. Lowering a client's risk of rape. Is that a business necessity? I would argue that it is a business necessity, she said. So all of that being said, I have what might be a little bit of an unpopular opinion about this, which is that I don't like it, and here is why. So I want to be clear. It is true that sexual assaults and assaults and harassment in rideshare is a problem. Between 2017 and 2022, Uber received a report of sexual assault or misconduct almost every eight minutes, totaling over 400, 000 reports over five years, which was far higher than a much smaller number, around 12,000 of, quote, serious incidents that the company had publicly disclosed. So I want to be clear that this is a real problem. In 2021, Lyft put out a safety report that showed that 4,158 sexual assault reports from 2017 to 2019 had occurred. That report came out in 2021. Lyft has not released a safety report since. And I want to talk about how that one report from Lyft came to be in one of our earliest episodes of the podcast. I think it might have been our. Our third or fourth episode. We'll put that episode in the show. Notes. We spoke to my friend Allison Turkos. Allison Turkos is amazing. They have turned into an advocate for making ride shares safer for everybody after a horrible, horrifying incident. So just a heads up that this does include like horrifying sexual assault content because Allison was sexually assaulted in a lift in 2017 after a night out with friends. They got into a lift, that driver had a gun and at gunpoint drove Allison to a different state because this happened in Brooklyn. So, like Brooklyn, New Jersey, you know, was a. They're, they're close by states where Allison was then gang raped by multiple men. It is the most horrifying, harrowing thing I have ever heard. Then they sued Lyft, and to this day, they are still fighting to make ride shares safer for everybody because of that horrible, horrible experience. And so, and so the only reason why Lyft released that report in 2021, that one report, was because Alison pushed and advocated for them to do so. And they dragged their feet. They only did it kicking and screaming because they continued to stay on Lyft's ass to make them do it. So the only reason we even have any insight into those numbers is because of them. And that was a dogfight that was like pulling teeth. And so I guess what I'm saying is that people like Alison who have had these horrible experiences, they have had to use those experiences to push for these companies to do the baseline right thing. And I want to be clear that I think it is possible that this women riders, drivers thing might make the experience of rideshare safer. And if it prevents one assault, in my book, that is great. However, I also think they do these little PR moves that are really kind of like bells and whistles and add ons to avoid having to do the more meaningful and urgent work of making their systems less exploitative and they do that while continuing to silence and lie about the mostly women and non binary people who have been harmed because of their product. Right. And so if these companies like Lyft and Uber really did care about safety, they would be lifting these folks up, not silencing them.
- [66:40]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, I, I agree, I agree. I, honestly, I, it's interesting. Like when you, when you were starting the story, I sort of had a second where I was like, wow, am I gonna have to be the person on this one to be like, I actually don't know about this, but no, I, I, I, it is like one of those things where, because I've heard about this being a thing before. Like, I've heard about this being like a, like, yeah, you could request women drivers. Personally, I've never used it, but it is always one of those things that to me, I'm like, how much does this actually protect people? Honestly, like, I don't know. And like, I mean, like you said, maybe it does. There's no real way of knowing for sure. Yeah, I agree with what you said and I think it seems like it's, it's, it's more doing the PR than it is actually helping people. And that's where I'm like, even just the fact that there's such a, like performative lawsuit about this from the other side where it's like obvious. And again, having just talked about a bunch of different lawsuits in this episode where it's like, it's very expensive, you have to pay for all this stuff. And then you look at it, it's like these male Uber drivers are mad. And it's like, okay, this is definitely being funded by one of those like, weird, like, we're taking back, we're ending woke. Kind of like it's the same thing with like the affirmative action stuff. Like, it's like this is backed by like a bigger, like, political thing. This has nothing to do with like gender equality or whatever.
- [68:02]
Bridget Todd
Yeah.
- [68:04]
Pat Not Pratt
But like the fact that they can do that and it's so obviously performative makes me wonder if like, what Uber was trying to do was even effective in the first place, you know?
- [68:13]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I wonder the exact same thing. I, I would love to. I mean, I have not seen studies that suggest that this meaningfully makes the experience of rideshare safer. I, I will do some research and update, folks, but I, yeah, I just, there are so many things that Uber and Lyft and Rideshare could do if they wanted to be responsible for less harm. And I just don't like that they. And I also wonder, like, if some, if somebody is assaulted or harmed, will they be like, oh, well, you should have picked that, like, put the women drivers option. I just, this is a way to put the onus back on us. And I just, I don't know. I just, I. I just don't like it. I don't, I don't think it. And I just, it's hard for me to read stories like this one where Uber and rideshare companies are ostensibly doing something that like, maybe kind of seems good and maybe is kind of good without thinking about people like my friend Alison, who I know was so deeply harmed by a rideshare company and just the sheer amount of horror and pain that they had to go through and endure to even get these companies to be talking about safety. Like, I just see the way that the blood and sweat and harm and pain and grief and trauma of people like Allison is what gets us to these, like, piddly little, like, is that could not possibly be enough to repair the damage that they have. These companies have done. I just. Yeah, it. It's a tough one for me.
- [69:46]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, and again, what you said, like, it's like, what's the response? Like, oh, you should have picked the women's only one. Like, maybe you should have fielded your employees better. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's also a bigger issue about like, how Uber works, where it's all like, contracts. What? Yeah, there's. There's bigger societal company specific issues here. Also, like, I don't mean this in a, like, not all men, women do this too kind of way. But like, like, it feels very, like we're just putting. We're saying because this is only women, like, nothing bad can happen then. Like, what if something bad happens? Like, what is the response to that?
- [70:30]
Bridget Todd
So something I have been feeling just in my digital diet is I'm using social media a lot less in general, but I'm using Instagram specifically a lot less. And it turns out that I am not alone because a comprehensive report from Buffer analyzed tens of millions of posts from over 191,000 monthly users throughout 2025. And basically, people are not using Instagram like they once were. The report found declining interaction rates on Instagram, LinkedIn and Threads while platforms like X, Pinterest and Facebook were seeing gains. And we talked a little bit about this, but I am not surprised by any of this. I do you. What's. What is your.
- [71:15]
Pat Not Pratt
I'm surprised that X and Facebook are getting more. I guess I shouldn't be because that's just more that I'm like, I'm not the one using it. Facebook I'm less surprised over because again, I think it's just the generational. I am genuinely surprised that X is getting reviews. I am, however, yeah, very much not surprised. I've been having a very similar sort of thing with Instagram lately. It's. I actually like, at the beginning of the year, like, totally just like deleted off my phone for two weeks. And it was hard. But like, I. I don't know, like, I've been going back and forth about just like trying to take it off my phone and I can't because I need to use it a lot for my job and for connecting with people. And like, it has become a way how I like a big part of how I communicate with people. But I like, I keep having. I keep having to like, think, be like, wow, I'm stressed. What are some things that are stressing me out? And like, Instagram is always one of the ones that's just like right there. And I'm like, yeah, like, my options are kind of just like, continue to do this or delete it or like, try to use it less or whatever. But. But yeah, no, 100% totally heard. I have beef with Instagram lately.
- [72:19]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I kind of have to be there to promote the show, the book, you know, a bunch of my other work. I don't. I find myself using it less and less for genuine. It once was a place where you would genuinely showcase, like your personal life, what you were doing, where you were up, what you were up to. I don't really do that anymore. And I think part of it is that it. I just. I'm just burned out on social media and I think that Instagram is an app where they make such rapid changes that it is. Doesn't feel worth it to stay checked in to how the app works anymore. It is rare that I see people that I know in real life that I have told Instagram that I want to follow. Like, I'll be like, I'm following you. I want you in whatever the thing used to be able to pick to be like, I want to see this person's content first. I don't remember the last time I saw somebody that I. That I genuinely know on Instagram. It's all people I don't know, influencers, I don't know. And I don't use TikTok anymore since the. Since it was sold. But for a while it was just like, oh, do you want to see reels a week later that you're. That people already saw on TikTok. Like that's how it was feeling. And also I used to be in a place where I would get feedback from Instagram about how to succeed on the platform. They're tripping like, like the amount of work that they basically, it's like you have to be. I mean this is just. I don't remember what it actually was, but it was like, oh, to perform well on the algorithm, you need to post 5 times a day a reel and once a day in the story and this. And comment this many times. And you know, I'm self employed. I don't work for Meta. At a certain point it's like I'm just, am I just working for this algorithm? And then they're going to change it in a week and then all the stuff that I thought that I was told performed well on Monday by Friday is going to be totally different. And just keeping up with that just became such a slog.
- [74:21]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, it's genuinely like there's exactly something. It either just moves so fast or it just is not really effective to begin with. I remember also reading something that had that same. It was like post five reels a day and I was like, I. But do not have time for that. Yeah, I agree about the algorithm too. I mean my main issue with it recently because I went from. I loved Instagram for so long, I think, like, especially like I'm a photographer. I like, I. It was really great. It was a great way to like keep up with what my friends were doing. It was a great way to like keep in touch with people. Now it's like literally every time I open it. I just recently had to go through and like block a bunch of celebrity news sites because somehow it like you will like look at one thing for too long and that'll be your entire like feed. And I genuinely was just like, I ended up down a rabbit hole where I was like, I keep like spiraling out over this, like comparing myself to people and like doing all these things that I was like, what am I doing? Like, I'm literally. And I was like, I. The problem is I just keep getting all of these like celebrity news videos. And I was like, I don't even care about this shit. Like, this has nothing to do with my life. If I was, it would be one thing. If I was opening, I'm being like, oh cool, let's see what my friends are up to. Or like, I think a lot of, like, a lot of, like, events stuff now is also on Instagram. Like, a lot of, like, nightlife stuff that I go to. They're, like, promoting it on Instagram. So I'm like, I kind of gotta stay on Instagram to know when things are happening. But, like, yeah, there's also. There's so many ads. That's where I'm at right now is like, trying to navigate being like, this is a useful tool for me to keep in touch with people, for me to, like, promote my work, for me to do whatever. Also, I need to find a way for it not to, like. Yeah, give me, like, panic attacks every time I open it. Because, like, I. Yeah, it's either that or it's like you end up on some sort of, like, I think any, like, very rage baity, like, Instagram reels lately, too, I think, like, really weird, because Tick Tock, there's definitely a problem with this. It's. It's somehow worse on reels. Like, I think specifically, if you're thinking so like, the kind of con. Surprise, surprise. I get a lot of, like, content aimed at, like, queer people on Tick Tock. I feel like it's much more aligned with what I want to see. And then on reels, it's like, stuff that is, like, genuinely, like, I'll have to stop and be like, is this rage bait or is this something like, somebody's, like, legitimately making? Like, it feels much more like. I don't really know. Like, this feels like. It's so obvious. They're just trying to, like, manipulate the algorithm to the point that I'm like, what. What am I doing on this app? Like, I don't know. One of my goals for this year that has been going very poorly is I. I. As of every year, I'm like, I'm gonna spend less time on, like, social media and try to repair the fact that my brain, like, doesn't have an attention span anymore. But you know what? It's hard. It's hard. I'll give it to y'.
- [77:20]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
All.
- [77:20]
Pat Not Pratt
Everybody else trying to do that. It's. As somebody who's been, like, trying to use Instagram less over the last, like, how many months in the year are we. Two and a half months now. Like, it's. It's really hard.
- [77:30]
Bridget Todd
No, I'm with you. My. I had to sort of divest from a lot of mine was Shade Room and other kinds of, like, there's just a. Just a. Such a scourge of, like, black, like, aimed at black audiences. Like, you can tell it's aimed at black audiences. Just the worst base content you've ever seen in your life. And it, something about it just pulls me in. Like you could, you can say any misogynistic, transphobic, queer, phobic, fat phobic, fucked up thing on Instagram and I just said, I there I found myself in a, in just a toxic relationship with that kind of content I had to go through and unfollow and block specific accounts and. And I think I might be more susceptible than your average bear on this one because I get pulled in and then you're just training the algorithm that's like, oh, so you, you like this post that shared a picture of the fact that your favorite singer, Sade, has a gender non conforming child. And you like that this outlet posted the picture of the child and just the word thought question mark. You like content like that. And it's like they never, I mean, I could talk all day, they never come out and say it. The kind of content that finds me, they never come out and say, but you know exactly what they're insinuating. The comments are all crazy, they're all hateful. And I just like, it was like, I felt like that kind of stuff was following me around the Internet. It was just so toxic for me.
- [79:06]
Pat Not Pratt
Yeah, no, it's bad. Yeah, I get like, I fully just like deleted Instagram off my phone for like a week at the beginning of this year because, like, I don't know, like, I had, I had kind of a rough start to the year and like, there was just like a point where like one of the things that was really bugging me was I was like, I just have like, I'm somebody that lives in like a very, you know, I'm very lucky. I'm able to be very, very like openly queer and like openly like gender non conforming and stuff like that. But it was like I like, was reaching a point where I was like getting stressed and I was like getting anxious about like presenting the way that I do. And I was like, I'm not getting this from the people around me. I'm getting this from being on my phone all the time, like, genuinely. And yeah, that's why, I mean, I agree with you. I think I'm the same way where I was like, I definitely get sucked into the, like the rabbit hole of whatever. The thing is, I'm in an abusive relationship with Instagram. I think that's what I'm gonna say because I know I'm not gonna delete it, but I hate it. I hate what it's doing to my brain, but also, I'm on it all the time.
- [80:04]
Bridget Todd
So you're. You're not one of the people that's using it less. Maybe you did when you deleted it.
- [80:08]
Pat Not Pratt
I want you. I aspire to. I'm really trying. It's not going super well, but I'm really trying. But, yeah, and again, like, what I was saying, it's also hard. Like, I. One of my goals for myself this year was I was like, I want to get back into posting a lot of my photography. And I've been trying to do, like, I have done some, like, modeling on the side and stuff like that. And I was like, well, I need to use my Instagram to promote that. Like, I need to. Like, that's kind of like the way that I make. Like, that's how I also connect with other artists. That's how I, like, show people the work that I'm doing. Our only option is the thing that's, like, ruining all of our brains. So I guess I'm just gonna keep using the thing that's ruining all our brains. Like, I don't know what else I'm supposed to do.
- [80:56]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. Sometimes it feels like we have a little bit of a dismal digital landscape, but we have places like AO3. There is hope.
- [81:04]
Pat Not Pratt
We have places like AO3. That is, again, the end of the fucking day. 803 is what gives me hope in this world.
- [81:11]
Bridget Todd
Always nice to end on a little bit of Internet landscape. Hope. Joey, thank you so much for being here. Where can folks keep up with you?
- [81:20]
Pat Not Pratt
Of course. Any time you can find me failing to not be on Instagram pat not pratt. That's P A T T N O T P R A T T. That's also my Twitter and other things, but I only really use Instagram. You can find me on TikTok@hot topicdad. That's hot topic. Like the store. And then dad, like the father figure. You can hear more of my work on There Are no Girls, the Internet. You can also check out some of our other outspoken shows like outlaws with T.S. madison, the Black Bat Femme Podcast, and Afterlives, all of which future work that I've done. But yeah, find me online. Find me walking around with my ESPN podcast Hat. Find me. And I'm still waiting for whatever the next heated rivalry rave is near where I live. I want to dress up as. As. As Scott with the, like, baseball hat on and the sunglasses. I think that would be fun. That's also just how I dress most days. But Bridget, you haven't gotten to an episode yet. That's the Captain America one. That's. Yeah.
- [82:37]
Bridget Todd
Okay. I, I'll, I'll, I'll watch it and then I'll report back again.
- [82:42]
Pat Not Pratt
This is, it's so weird because I was like, I have this one weird area of expertise from having been a weird kid on the Internet at 16. Embrace, cringe. Embrace the weird thing you're into. You never know when it's going to become the biggest piece of media of the year.
- [82:59]
Bridget Todd
Yes. And please embrace our audiobook love@first prompt. You can pre order it at loveirstprompt.AI. if you do that and you send me a screenshot of you of your pre order or an email with your screenshot of your pre order, we will send you a handwritten thank you card and a sticker. So please do that. Thanks to everybody who's already done it. Thanks so much to all of you for listening. I will see you on the Internet. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach us@helloangodi.com youm can also find transcripts for today's episode@tangodi.com There are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check. Check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [84:12]
Chelsea Handler / Sonesta Ad Voice
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- [84:50]
Radhi Deblokia (Ad Voice)
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Bridget Todd
the Venmo Debit card. A taco in one hand and ordering
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Vital Proteins / Venmo / Grainger Ad Voice
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Bridget Todd
Nice. Get up to 5% cash back with Venmo Stash on your favorite brands when
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Vital Proteins / Venmo / Grainger Ad Voice
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Bridget Todd
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Vital Proteins / Venmo / Grainger Ad Voice
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Bridget Todd
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Vital Proteins / Venmo / Grainger Ad Voice
be a matter of life or death.
- [86:39]
Bridget Todd
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Solaray Magnesium Ad Voice
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Radhi Deblokia
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Solaray Magnesium Ad Voice
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Radhi Deblokia
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Solaray Magnesium Ad Voice
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Bridget Todd
by Granger for the ones who get it done.
- [87:21]
Pat Not Pratt
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.