← There Are No Girls on the Internet
There Are No Girls on the Internet
Heated Rivalry's Podcast Drama; White House Posts AI Altered Crying Arrest Photo; Morally Dubious Florida Candidate Dislikes Only Fans - NEWS ROUNDUP!
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
There Are no Girls on the Internet It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are no Girls on the welcome to There Are no Girls on the Internet where we explore the intersection of technology, social media and identity. And this is another installment of our weekly news roundup where we talk through all the stories that you might have missed on the Internet this week so you don't have to I hope I'm not opening up a can of worms on this one because I think it's going to be one of those topics that people have a lot to say about. Leave it in the Spotify comments. I read them all. I want to know don't come for me, but let's just get into it so there are two former hockey players who are brothers, Dan and Chris Powers. They have a very popular hockey podcast called Empty Netters. As far as we know, they are both CIS straight white dudes. They have been covering the show Heated Rivalry. We talked about Heated Rivalry a little bit. It's about two male hockey players who have a romance and it's very horny. It is a very horny show. So I don't listen to the podcast, but in a piece for Queerty, writer Alex Reamer describes the podcast's coverage of heated rivalry like this. Instead of breaking down games and chattering over penalties, dudes sporting sweats and sloppy stubble started reacting to the lascivious scenes and intimate interplay between the two male leads. Their efforts resulted in hundreds of thousands of views and unforeseen popularity. So it sounds like these two straight hockey podcast guys have gotten a lot of popularity from covering this queer, steamy, sexy show, specifically breaking down the sex scenes, which there are a lot of because the show is super horny. So the question that Reamer poses in this piece is whether or not this should be celebrated as straight men. You know, paying attention to queer media that is not necessarily for them or or if it's performative Allyship. You know, we're in a culture where people like Ben Shapiro are demonizing really any portrayals of sex and sexuality, but specifically also queer sex and romance. So if you've got these white straight CIS heterosexual guys celebrating like horny queer romance and sexuality, that's great, right? However, they're also getting lots of downloads and popularity and like, tangible monetary benefit from doing this. So are they really celebrating it or are they just kind of pretending to celebrate it to get that money? As Reimer put it, it is wonderful when straight guys embrace queer art. Despite right wing grievances, they are still the dominant force in society. Their support goes a long way toward normalizing gay love stories that feature far more sex than tragedy. But it's hard to take their efforts in good faith when they're monetized for views and downloads. Their exaggerated reactions, yelling, screaming, jumping up and down, pulling their hair, openly weeping can also be obnoxious. Take the Empty Netters guys for example. The backward hat wearing hosts live streamed their performative reactions to every episode during their season finale show, which netted nearly 530,000 views. The host squealed and squirmed. So I actually saw on social media this piece got a little bit of backlash from fans of the Empty Netters hockey podcast, who basically said, oh, this is silly because the hosts speak so glowingly about this show all the time. They clearly really like it. Why are you getting upset that these straight guys are enjoying queer media? That should be exactly what we want. But the plot thickens because now we have a piece in the outlet Out Sports, an LGBTQ sports outlet by Sid Ziegler titled like, just get a load of this title. Empty Netter's host privately called Heated Rivalry trash show creators, losers and cowards Subtitle as he publicly praised Heated Rivalry. One Empty Netter's host privately trashed the show. Out sports has seen the texts.
- [07:42]
Mike
They have received. They've seen the text. This is, this is such a wild story about a podcast talking about a TV show. But then there's like, the texts have been leaked and now they're getting called out for talking about it in an inauthentic way. What a story, Mike.
- [08:04]
Bridget Todd
We have the smoking gun, we have the receipts. One of the hosts hate, doesn't just dislike it, hated Heated Rivalry and said so very clearly in text messages. So all while they were gushing about this show and enjoying a nice bump in listeners and probably like as podcaster to podcaster, money in pockets from talking about it and gushing about how much they liked it. They he privately hated it. This is from the piece. So they would gush about this show. Yet in a series of text messages sent to multiple recipients and seen by Outsports, one of the podcast hosts, Dan Powers, was highly critical of the show, while at the same time the podcast and Dan personally were publicly effusive in their praise. This guy really is not fucking with this show. Here are some of the text messages. Quote, I think these losers who made this show are cowards.
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Mike
Cowards. They're making a television show.
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Bridget Todd
No, they're cowards. Bemoaning the fact that the producers are, quote, Canadian, for crying out loud. Which part of me is like, what does that mean?
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Mike
What does that mean? Is it like, are these guys Canadian? Are they. They, like, Canadians should know better than to make gay content or like, these guys are Canadian, we shouldn't respect them. Obviously they're cowards because they're Canadian. Like, what does this even mean?
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Bridget Todd
I, I think it's that they're cowards because they're Canadian. The show is Canadian. I will say Canadians are very proud of the show. It's, it's a show that, that they have. And a lot of people, because it's on HBO here in the States, a lot of people will be like, oh, the HBO show. And if you said that on social media, there would be a Canadian in your mentions, rightly so. And correctly being like, actually it's not an HBO show, it's Canadian. So I think that what he is saying is that Canadians are just by their nature cowardly and cannot make media that should be taken seriously.
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Mike
Okay, wow, this is really escalating.
- [10:09]
Bridget Todd
That's not me saying this, that's him. I'm just trying to get a handle on what he's saying. Here's another text message quote. This is the trash they make because it panders, it's provocative and it checks inclusivity boxes. That one I feel like is very, is like a lot. It kind of gets at the heart of the matter a little bit more that he is talking about how great the show is in a, in a, in a very over the top, effusive way. When in reality he thinks that it's just the reason why it's, it's successful is because it checks inclusivity boxes. To me, that that's, that is the most revealing of the text. Because, you know, heated rival, like as they, as one of the pieces points out, I think one of the reasons why it's successful is that it's a queer story that does not have deep tragedy at the heart of it. Like, you know, so many queer stories. I mean, it's a trope, right? The barrier gaze trope, where at the end the, you know, somebody has to die, they have to experience some sort of trauma. If you've read a Little Life, like, like the worst things that can happen to somebody have to happen. And this is not a show like that. It's also a well acted show. It's also like very sexy. There are so many reasons why this show is successful. To just boil that down to, oh, it's because they just like forced it to be a gay show. And it's just like checking the inclusivity box. I feel like that's, that's the real revealing text message here to me.
- [11:39]
Mike
And if that's really how he feels, then how do you think he feels about himself on this show? Performatively talking about how much he loves it. Right? Like, if he thinks the whole reason Heated Rivalry is successful is because it's pandering and it's checking inclusivity boxes and, and he thinks that's bad and then he himself is duplicitously saying how great it is. That's getting a little like twisted there.
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Bridget Todd
Let them know, Dr. Amato. Exactly right. Like, if Heated Rivalry is pandering to the like queer progressive to just check inclusivity boxes, then what the hell are you doing on your podcast? Very good point.
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Mike
Yeah. And also backing it up. What the hell are you doing on your podcast?
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Bridget Todd
What the hell are you doing on your podcast? The article also says, quote, in fact, in the early days of the public reaction to Heated Rivalry, he was so incensed by the positive response to the show that he bemoaned the gushing response was, quote, making blue haired Twitter happy. So these are the same people that he is essentially cashing in from by attracting to his hockey podcast by talking about how much he likes this show. So it really is, I mean, if this is how, if you, if you have such disdain for these people, why would you want them? Why would you be trying to be in community with them in this way? You know what I mean?
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Mike
Yeah, it's like pretty puzzling. I mean, maybe they feel like they stumbled backwards into a way to get a bunch of downloads and make a bunch of money. I guess, like, is this the equivalent of how you are always threatening to sell out and like go maga and I'm sure you would make a fortune, you know, if you got up on the stage of CPAC and like denounced everyone that you've ever cared about. They would eat that up. Right. You could go on Tucker Carlson or maybe an actual show that like, has advertisers. Is this the. The right wing equivalent of that?
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Bridget Todd
Oh, I don't know about that. I think that he doesn't like this show but wants money and acclaim. So we'll say whatever. I think.
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Mike
Okay, that's prob.
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Bridget Todd
Yeah, but I. But I see what. I see your point though, that, like, isn't it the same thing? You know, I've always said Candace Owens is the reason why I'm. I'm obsessed with her is that she is my shadow self. I. I look at her and I see a sort of what if inverse fun house mirror of like, things that could have been.
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Mike
Yeah, but I guess you're right. Like these backwards hat wearing hockey players. Like, no shade to backwards hat wearing hockey players. But you know, they're. Maybe I'm overthinking it here. Maybe they're just trying to get some engagement, make some money.
- [14:35]
Bridget Todd
I. I don't know. You and I had a very long talk about this before we started recording. I have, I have so many thoughts. My first question is just how did out. Because at the Outsports article, they go out of their way to explicitly say several times, including in the title, we have the texts. How did they get. And they say this, this person was sending texts to multiple recipients. And how did they get these texts? I am so curious. And this is a little bit of a nightmare scenario of mine, what I think. I mean, I love it when it happens to somebody else, but it's also my nightmare of it happening to me. When you're reading texts or communications from someone who clearly never thought they would be read by the public, it's my favorite thing in the world. But it is also the idea of the texts that I send just to my friends when I don't think anybody else is going to read them. It ha. It happened to Taylor Swift and Blake Lively this week too. Like, I like it is my nightmare. How do you think Outsports got these texts?
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Mike
I mean, I have no clue, but I have to assume that somebody who was receiving them didn't think what was happening was cool and forwarded them on to a reporter. Or it could be like a Pete Hegseth signal gate situation and they just inadvertently added the editor from their fat thumbs. Right. And like, didn't mean to, but that seems unlikely. I feel like this was a deliberate communication to journalists.
- [16:07]
Bridget Todd
I agree. I will say kind of back to the point we were making Earlier, I have kind of been silently hating. I never put it in text message, but I have sort of been silently hating about just some of the discourse around heated rivalry. Kind of straight dudes getting a lot of credit for liking a queer show. I saw this piece in New York mag about how straight men were watching it and how it was like this great pushback to heteronormative culture. And I was just thinking, like, come on, y'. All. Watching a television show is not activism. It all just kind of made me roll my eyes. I was always sort of looking at that with a little bit of side eye and skepticism because it's a good show. It's not for everybody. If you watch, like, I was listening to Watch what Happens, you know, I love my boys on Watch what Happens. And one of them. And they're gay men. And one of them was like, that's not really for me. You know, I. I just hate this idea that can, like, straight men are saving the world by watching this very popular piece of entertainment media that everybody else is watching. Like, they're clocking in and taking one for the team and helping society. Everybody else is just voluntarily pleasure watching it. I just never liked that dynamic. I guess I'll say there's been a.
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Mike
Lot of discourse about the show. I feel like so many people in my life are talking about it. I admit I haven't seen it. I feel a little culturally negligent that I haven't. But it's interesting to see such strong feelings that people have about a TV show that I haven't seen. But everyone who tells me about it, the main thing that they emphasize is that it's like, horny and gay.
- [17:56]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. I mean, but also it's like a. It's like, yeah, I mean, I've only seen one episode, so don't come for me. But like, yeah, it's. It's a good show. We talked on the podcast about how it's a show that really rewards careful viewing, that you can't really watch it. And while you're on your phone and get the full. The full scope of the thing, which I think shows that it's a show that is a bit challenging and also trusts the viewer, which I feel like in this day and age, there's not a lot of media that trusts their audience. So it is a good show. I guess that's what I'm saying. I don't think that straight men should be getting credit for, like, being agents of social change or something by watching a good show. Like, watching good TV is pleasure is like its own reward. I just, I don't like the precedent that sets up in, and not just with this show in general. Anytime that I feel like there's a whiff of something that is like, it is your cultural duty to watch this movie. I could tell you movies where I felt like the marketing campaign was a little bit like that. I reject that. I think that people should watch what they like. People should be culturally, you know, expanding their diets. But consuming media is not activism. I just like patently don't like the idea that we're conflating the two.
- [19:16]
Mike
Well, it's not activism, but commenting on media, it can. You can get paid for that. Right? Like these two guys.
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Bridget Todd
I mean, what I do is activism.
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Mike
Oh, yeah, Talking.
- [19:26]
Bridget Todd
Talking about movies. We're changing the world here, am I? No, I'm just, I'm completely kidding. Please no one, please no one think that. I'm not kidding about that. I will say. Now we looped around to my favorite part of this whole thing, which is that because people are like, if these two straight hockey dudes are so progressive, let's take a look back at some of their other takes from a podcast, shall we?
- [19:53]
Mike
Oh, no.
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Bridget Todd
And that's not going well. I'm going to play a clip for you that was from their podcast.
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Mike
Like, it's just, dude, if I go.
- [20:05]
Bridget Todd
If I am paying 500 bucks a.
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Mike
Month for a membership at a fucking bar. Yeah. And I don't get a drink on.
- [20:13]
Bridget Todd
My table, the second I sit down accompanied with a fucking spit in the.
- [20:17]
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- [20:21]
Bridget Todd
And I just can't believe that we're letting, we're just letting all these places.
- [20:25]
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- [20:31]
Mike
And everyone's just like this, that's. Hey, you're at Soho House, baby.
- [20:35]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
I'm like this. Well, this place is fucking terrible.
- [20:37]
Bridget Todd
Like, it's okay, so.
- [20:40]
Mike
Oh my God.
- [20:42]
Bridget Todd
Oh my God.
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Mike
So I want to say it's not cool to refer to young women with the C word. Like, that's not cool. $500 for a, a membership to a bar.
- [20:57]
Bridget Todd
That's crazy.
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Mike
I'm already on his side.
- [21:00]
Bridget Todd
Okay, we talked about this off Mike. So I. There's some listeners who are like getting, who are like about to leave. You mean comments. I've. So I don't know if they live in LA or New York. I've been to Soho House, New York, and I, I fuck this guy for that comment. But I, I know what he's trying to say because I've been to Soho House, New York, and it is like, I mean, I'm not a member of Soho House, but I was a guest to somebody who was a member of. And their service there is bananas. Like, I can't understand it. And it's so expensive. Everything is overpriced. But my thing in this, in, in that clip. I get what he's trying to say. However, I don't understand how he doesn't get how the asshole in the situation is him. Right. It's like you're the, you're the person that's paying this amount of money to. For the exclusivity of being a member of Soho House, which I. Folks don't know what that is. It's like a members only exclusive social club. You are the one who is paying $500 a month to have this, quote, exclusive experience that actually kind of sucks. So you, in my book, you kind of get what you get. Yeah. The service in there is slow. It's not. People aren't paying that amount of money for the service. I don't get like the complaint. He should be delivering that complaint to a mirror. Why do you continue to spend $500 on this experience? That is no good. That's on you, sir. Not on. Not on these, quote, pretentious TikTok c words.
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Mike
I had no idea that this was a thing, this Soho House. Yeah. Like, I guess I just live in a totally different world from so many people, certainly these guys. But like, you had to, you had to describe it to me. Yeah, it sounds terrible. Like, why would a person go there? It sounds like like a country club. Right? Like you're paying a high fee for exclusivity to keep the riff raff out. And I think the riff raff is me because I would never pay 500amonth for a membership to a bar. Are you kidding me?
- [23:00]
Bridget Todd
It's supposed to be a high end. And I, my understanding of it, Listen, I only went once and I was like, I was a guest of somebody. I think there was a time where it had more cachet. My understanding is the cachet is kind of worn off. When I lived in New York, this, it was sort of a like free frou thing. It's a, it's not a, it's a social club. So you go there, you can cowork. They have, you know, events that if you remember, this is really outing me as a, as a millennial, A recovering millennial girl boss. But I Got a comped membership to the women's only social club, the Wing. And that was like, I don't know how you would describe it. It was like a co working place where they had events at a bar, at a restaurant, and showers and lockers. So basically if you were a busy gal on the go, a girl boss, you could go there and get a, you could go there and like blow out your hair with a good, a good, you know, blow dryer and take a shower. If you went to the gym and had a meeting after, basically I, they had one in D.C. it. I quickly was like, I don't have the kind of life I'm. The lifestyle that I have as a podcaster who very rarely leaves my apartment. I don't have the kind of life that warrants a membership to any kind of social club. Soho House is really. And also if you were like a, a cryptogrifter or something, it would totally make sense to have a membership there because it's like oh, dummies with fat pockets and money to spend who aren't really that discriminating about how they spend it there. I think there's a world where it would make sense for somebody to pay $500 a month for Soho House.
- [24:39]
Mike
Yeah. If you're like a crypto bro or like a Wall street trader and you just have like piles of money you don't know what to do with. Sure, that probably makes some sense. You go, you get mad at the servers for not caring about you.
- [25:00]
Bridget Todd
No, no, not just not caring about you as he puts it, not giving you a spit in the hand tug job. I cannot believe he said that shit on Mike.
- [25:14]
Mike
Yeah, so people are just going through digging up these guys clips. I actually find that so less egregious than lying about enjoying heated rivalry. I don't know, I guess this is, this segment isn't supposed to be about my, my preferences and reactions here.
- [25:32]
Bridget Todd
Well, that was the thing. We had this whole conversation before we started recording. But do listeners of podcasts expect to get the hosts real opinions and feelings about things? It really reminds me of the advice slash curse that I think Tina Fey put on Bow and Yang of the podcast Lost Culturistas. Which you know was. I love, I love Bow and Yang. But Tina Fey was a guest on that podcast and they have a segment every week called I don't think so Honey. And her I don't think so honey was I don't think so honey to Bowen Yang giving his real opinions about things because he's too famous to do that now and then, she said. Like, a year later, Bowen Yang and his co host Matt Rogers said some stuff. It turned into a whole thing online, and it was like, oh, Tina Fey, she kind of really saw it coming. But it made me wonder, like, I. I don't know. I'm curious for your thoughts, listeners. I'm curious for all of your thoughts. I feel like I try to be pretty authentic. There are definitely things that I would maybe hold back on, but I would. I care so seriously about media and books and film and shows and television that I would never say something. I would never say that I like something if I truly didn't. So, like, I might hold back on certain things for. For particular. Sometimes it's like, my opinion is maybe not that good or, you know, not that interesting, but I would never. Effusively he praised on something that I didn't like. Just a little example. Last week in our episode with Joey, I just casually, offhand mentioned RuPaul's memoir, and I said, oh, I read RuPaul's memoir. It was pretty good. Then after the episode, I remembered actually I was getting it mixed up with a different memoir. I actually didn't really like RuPaul's memoir, so I had to call up Joey and say, can you edit out me saying that? I enjoyed RuPaul's memoir because it was important to me to be like, I don't want somebody to read this memoir and be like, wow, Bridget liked this. And I remember I was like, I didn't like it. I thought it was full of platitudes, and it sounded like an Instagram caption. No offense to RuPaul didn't love the memoir. So I said it to say, I can't see myself pretending to really enjoy a piece of media that I did not. That's not the same thing as holding back my feelings. I don't know. What do you think? Is this. Is any of this making sense?
- [27:54]
Mike
It is. Yeah. We talked about this and thought about it. It is an interesting question, and I think you really hit the nail on the head. That, or as far as I. I feel at least that there is a big difference between holding back because for whatever reason you think people don't want to hear your opinions and actively saying something when you believe the opposite. Those feel.
- [28:21]
Bridget Todd
I would never. Yeah, I. I mean, would I. I would never. I would never. Even if I. I'm trying to think of. I just can't. I just can't see myself ever doing that. Anyway, y' all let me Know what you think in the comments. Do you think that these hockey bros are just performatively pretending to like this queer show to get money and more listeners and. Well, yeah. What do you think about that? We, I, I, I have so much to say about it and I'm curious what other people think.
- [28:54]
Mike
Yeah. Also curious what listeners think about authenticity because we hear so much about authenticity being so important. But I feel like the example about Bowen Yang that you gave is a pretty good one. That Tina Fey's advice to him that he needs to be careful about what he says because he's so famous. I think most people probably get that. And so there's like this duality of expecting authenticity but also recognizing that when you have a big platform, maybe it's not actually good to just say whatever comes into your head. Right?
- [29:33]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, yeah. That's a thoughtful way to put it. I mean, it would be such a curse for me personally to talk about Monkey Paw to be. I, you know, I want to be successful. I want the show to be successful because I care about it. If I ever got to the point where I can't say what I actually think, that would be a curse. May I never get famous enough that I cannot speak my mind. And if, you know, and I get it, Bowen Yang, he's friends with Ariana Grande. He's friends with the guy who plays spongebob. Like, he's friends with Famous Famous now. And I've been listening to his show since it first started. And it's like you really see the trajectory, just getting somebody's unvarnished takes. And that's what like, made me fall in love with their show Lost Culturistas. But then when you get to a certain level of fame, it wouldn't be a good idea to be so authentically. You know, as Tina Fey put it, authenticity comes at a price. And I understand at a certain point when your career gets to a certain point, you don't, you don't want to pay that price. You want to. If somebody calls you up and wants to put you in a movie, you don't want there to be a track record of you talking shit about them forever. I basically accepted I'll never, I, I, I, Before I had this podcast, I worked at a tech company. I worked at Medium. That was the best job I ever had. It's a company that I will ride for. I've accepted that I will never work at another tech company probably until the day I, and for the, for as long as I live, because I've talked shit about so many of them. But like I gotta call it. Like I see it. I have to. I have to call out companies that I think are bad and people that I think are bad leaders and people that have made bad choices. Like I. I don't have much in this life. Like I want. I need that. Give me that.
- [31:11]
Mike
Yeah. You know, people value different things. Some people value money over everything else. Other people value the freedom to say what they want, do what they want. I know which side I'm on.
- [31:23]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, you're like, you'll never own a home, but you will be talking shit into a microphone in your kitchen until the day that you die.
- [31:29]
Mike
You can say whatever you want.
- [31:35]
Bridget Todd
More after a quick break.
- [31:41]
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- [34:54]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. Okay, so switching gears. We have talked about this in the podcast before, but the White House, their social media is such a cluster of the worst, most gruesome content that you've ever seen in your life. It is truly ghoulish stuff. I sort of stopped paying attention to it, which I think is exactly what they want. And I think it's the kind of thing that in my opinion, even among their supporters, like, even if you were a Trump supporter or like a Trump voter, the kinds of content they put out is, I think you would have to be a real ghoul to want to see. Right. I remember they were putting out videos of like stacks of migrant men. All, all, like, it's just like stuff where it's like you, you would have to be a sicko to want to see this.
- [35:41]
Mike
Yes, they are actively engaged in a campaign to desensitize Americans and make us all more cruel and indifferent to the suffering of others. They. They want to celebrate the suffering of others with a capital O.
- [35:57]
Bridget Todd
Exactly. Exactly. And so that's why so much of this administration has been about creating content, you know, but. And they create the content that plays with the worst and also the most stupid people on the Internet. I remember you and I talking about the video of. I think it was Pete Hegseth And Sean Duffy doing chin ups at an airport. And it's like, what kind of, what kind of person is like, yeah, this is what I want to see. Like, I mean, at least that's the stupidest person.
- [36:27]
Mike
At least that one was just stupid. Right? Like no one was having their life destroyed or their body injured. Right. It would give me more stupidity. I would take that any day over the cruelty and depravity that they push on us every day.
- [36:45]
Bridget Todd
Totally fair. And it's, you know, one of the reasons is now the White House is asking ICE to make their own content. It's. It's why when Renee Good was killed in Minneapolis, the officer that stopped her was also filming on his personal cell phone. Right. And so, side note, do you remember in Chicago when ICE and federal agents used helicopters to break into an apartment building in the middle of the night where they zip tied residents, including kids and elders?
- [37:12]
Mike
You remember that? Yeah, I definitely remember that. And it's a real testament to these insane times that we live in that that is an event that like came and went and it's not like a continuing national embarrassment.
- [37:33]
Bridget Todd
Yes. And based on reporting from ProPublica and PBS. None. Zero. Not a single of the 37 individuals arrested during that raid were charged with a federal crime, despite that operation initially being framed as this, like, big, high profile anti terror action where they were going to, like, you know, take down these high level, big deal criminals. The detainees, who were primarily Venezuelan nationals, faced administrative immigration violations rather than any kind of criminal charges. What they ended up doing in that was just getting super cool footage of helicopters breaking into people's homes and windows at night that they put on official White House social media channels. So they basically just terrorized an entire community for a video shoot. They didn't get any high profile, you know, big deal terrorists or bad guys at all. Zero. Not a. None. Not one.
- [38:32]
Mike
Yeah, it. We are all just props in a collective glamour shot of Trump portraying him as like some big tough guy. It's, it's really despicable and bothering. Can we just talk about, like, the gay hockey again?
- [38:52]
Bridget Todd
I know. So you might have heard that this woman, Nakima Levy Armstrong, who is an attorney and an organizer and the former president of the NAACP's Minneapolis branch, she was arrested during an action that disrupted church services in Minnesota. So she and protesters entered the city's church in St. Paul, and at this church, an ICE enforcement official serves as the pastor of this church. So to be clear, there was zero violence and zero property damage of any kind during this action. Literally, they just came into the church, said an anti ICE slogan, and that was it. So there's not even any accusations that anything beyond that happened. All parties agree on this. However, she was arrested by federal officers. You might be wondering, like, what are the charges? It's not even clear. This is from the Minnesota Public Radio News. It was not immediately clear what charge she would face. Justice Department officials have said in recent days they were considering charging the protesters under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act. If you're wondering what that is or if it sounds familiar, that's the Face act, and it prohibits physically obstructing or using the threat of force to intimidate or interfere with a person seeking reproductive health services or seeking to participate in a service at a house of worship. So basically, it's a. It's a policy that is really intended to allow folks to get to reproductive health services. And the administration is trying to be like, oh, maybe we can charge them under this act to say that they physically block people who were trying to participate in a church service. The people were already seated and participating in a church service. So I don't know. Again, I'm no lawyer, but, like, that's what they're saying.
- [40:37]
Mike
It's like the creativity of morons who think that they're, like, really thinking outside of the box, and they're not. They're just, like, having stupid thoughts that don't make sense.
- [40:50]
Bridget Todd
Initially, they tried to charge journalist Don Lemon, who was covering this protest. But ultimately, those charges didn't stick. A magistrate judge rejected federal prosecutors bid to charge Don Lemon related to the church protests. So Lemon said that he was there as a journalist, not a protester. Like, I saw the footage that he took, and it's just like, very obviously he was there as a journalist. He said, once the protest started in the church, we did an act of journalism, which was to report on it and talk to the people involved, including the pastor, members of the church, and members of the organization. That's it. That's called journalism, he said. So they arrested Nakima Levy Armstrong, and the White House published an AI altered image of her on social media. According to the Guardian, the White House used AI to darken her skin and make it look like she was hysterically sobbing with, like, tears streaming down her face. We'll put the image. We'll put the image in the show.
- [41:45]
Mike
Notes.
- [41:46]
Bridget Todd
In reality, during her arrest, she looks completely composed. The altering of the image on the official White House channel also just made her look worse than she actually looked. They made her look older. They made her look kind of more disheveled. They darkened her skin. They made her look heavier. So originally, the White House posted the real picture. The Homeland Security Secretary, Kristi Noem posted the image of Armstrong's arrest at 10:21am On Thursday, an hour after Pam Bondi's announcement that she had been arrested. The image, the unaltered image shows law enforcement blurred out escorting Armstrong, who appears to be handcuffed. She's dressed in all black and she appears to be composed in the picture. But then I guess the White House was like, nah, this isn't inflammatory enough. So 30 minutes later, the White House posted another image of her arrest in which she is crying. White House Press Secretary Caroline Leavitt reposted this image. And the image posted by the White House, according to a Guardian analysis, has been altered. Yeah, I mean, it just reminds me of how much the Trump administration really goes out of their way to deeply disrespect black women. It's misogynoir, it's racist, it's sexist, it's gendered, it's racialized. And I think that they had to know that the, you know, the image of this black woman, composed and defiant while being arrested by federal agents for this, like, very low scale protest in a church, they had to know that the image of her looking defiant and composed was not going to play. So they were like, we have to, we have to use AI to create this reality where in fact, she looks terrified and disheveled and was sobbing, because that's what's going to play with our base, especially because it's a black woman.
- [43:40]
Mike
Totally. That's what they do. They have no regard for truth or reality. They think that they can just create reality and push it on the rest of us and alter images, say lies, and especially if it's about a black woman. Absolutely right. It's so despicable. It, like, boils my blood. Everything going on in Minneapolis is so offensive to human dignity and, like, the sense of what it is to, to be an American. It's really like pushing people's boundaries. I think they're trying to, they're trying to, like, push the limits of what they can get away with. It's despicable. I don't, I don't even have a deeper point.
- [44:32]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. And, you know, I'm really reminded I. In my home, I have so many, like, images around my home of all of the powerful and arresting images that we have from, you know, the Civil Rights movement, the black arts movement, all of that. I Have. There's this one iconic image, and I'll put it in the show notes of this woman, Gloria Richardson, who was the leader of the Cambridge Nonviolent Action Committee. And she's. It's this image that folks have might have seen where she is really giving a heavy side eye to a National Guardsman who was holding a rifle in her face and she's taking her hand and she's like physically pushing the rifle out of, like out of her face. And she looks so defiant, right? And the look that she's giving, I can't really explain it, but if you're a black woman or you are around black women or you, if you had a black mom or you know, like it is a, it is a particular look that she is giving this National Guard's Guard member. And that rifle that I've seen from my. I saw her, my own mom, a million times. I can't even really put it into words, but I know exactly what she is communicating via her look. And I. My question is that image is arresting because she's using the gifts and the tools that we as black women have as a tool of, of in the face of being being threatened with a gun, right? It's like, you may have a gun in my face, but I'm a black woman and I have a withering fucking stare. And that's enough. No one's going to remember the name of that National Guard member putting a gun on her face. This image, when you see it, you'll be like, oh, iconic, right? So what. I guess the point that I am making is that I think this is the administration using the tools at their disposal which are of course AI because they're lazy, stupid morons who don't care about anything original and don't have anything original to offer anybody. They are using these tools to try to take away our like God given abilities to resist, right? We as black women, one of the gifts that we have is the ability to, to, you know, keep it cute, have composure, look defiant, look iconic even if we're being arrested, like this sister was being arrested, right? And so the fact that they are using such a lazy fucking moron trick of make her look bad and disheveled and crying and scared when in fact the sister was composed in the face of this arrest, this federal arrest, I think really says a lot. I'm like, what is. Like, what if all of the iconic images of people throughout the years resisting somebody went in and used AI to try to make them less defiant and less iconic? And again I like I did something about this image. They have nothing real to offer, so they have to use the lazy moron's trick of making her look bad via AI to obscure the reality that this woman was confident, composed and defiant. She might have been scared inside, I get that. But the like trying to use what they can to strip away the power of her composure using AI, I think really says it all. And you know, the reality is we've all seen the original image. They posted the original image. I think the original image, she looks, she sis looked too bold. They were like, we can't have this be the official image of this woman, you know, eating us up, serving a face while she's getting arrested. We, we need to, to use AI to make this image fit what our base is going to like. And it really, I just really says a lot to me. Do you know what I'm saying?
- [48:18]
Mike
I do.
- [48:19]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [48:19]
Mike
You really said it. Well, you know, they don't have anything real to offer. They depend on making people afraid. They depend on immigrants being afraid. They depend on Americans of color being afraid. Like in, in Minneapolis, people are not going out. It's like a city under siege, right? Like I saw a video the other day of a 12 year old boy getting stopped and arrested. He was on his way home from school. There was a woman, she was a black woman cop, like on the Minneapolis Police Department. She was off duty. I don't know what she was doing. She got stopped by. It was either ICE or border patrol.
- [49:06]
Bridget Todd
I saw that.
- [49:08]
Mike
It's just like American citizens going about their business, children coming home from school, all of them. This administration wants them to be afraid. And they know that most Americans find what they're doing repugnant. And so they have to use AI and fakery to create this illusion that people are actually afraid. Because people, people are afraid. But also like Nakima Armstrong, people are standing up against this tyranny despite their fear. Right? Like some things are more important than being afraid. Some things are more important than our own physical safety in the moment. A lot of things are more important than like getting arrested for a protest. You know, like, it's not great, but whatever. I don't know her whole backstory, but like what I do know about her, I'm sure she's been through far worse than spending an evening or even overnight in a holding cell.
- [50:16]
Bridget Todd
Oh yeah.
- [50:16]
Mike
You know, and that is what I think is so, is so completely unacceptable to these would be tyrants that people are not afraid of them. And so they have to digitally edit things to make it seem as if people are afraid. When they're not, people are disgusted.
- [50:36]
Bridget Todd
Yeah. Oh, that's such a good point. When the Guardian asked the White House whether or not that image had been digitally altered, the White House responded by sending a post from X from Kaylin Dore, the deputy communications director, that said, yet again, to the people who feel the need to reflexively defend perpetrators of heinous crimes in our country, I shared with you this message. Enforcement of the law will continue. The memes will continue. Thank you for your attention on this matter. So, you know, you're a serious administration when you say the memes will continue, but also that, that doesn't answer their question at all. So they obviously did that shit.
- [51:11]
Mike
The memes will continue. That should be the tagline to this second Trump administration.
- [51:18]
Bridget Todd
Yes, it absolutely should be. And I'll just leave y' all with this. If they will use AI to manipulate images, especially when the images exist in the original and that they put them out so the public has seen them on official White House communication channels, they will do absolutely anything. Right? Like, like, there is no. I mean, not that I needed to tell anybody this, but there is no reason to believe anything coming out of this White House. And I don't think that they understand that. When you use AI to, to manipulate reality in this way, what you are admitting is that we are liars. You cannot trust anything that we say. Not that anybody, not that that's a news flash to anybody listening, but like, I'm, I, I don't know that they're aware that. They're just making it clear that no one should ever take them at face value about anything, ever. If they'll do this, they'll do anything.
- [52:07]
Mike
You make a good point that, like, this is so hard to talk about because you're right. That's not a new point. Everybody knows that they lie constantly. They will say anything. They will make things up. Their relationship to the truth is non existent. Like new phone. Who dis. Like, they don't even know. And like, what do you do with that?
- [52:31]
Bridget Todd
It's.
- [52:33]
Mike
But it's clear that anybody who does take anything they say as a fact or something that might be true is playing along, is carrying water for these authoritarians. And just like those podcast hockey bros, you know, we have to ask, like, what. How. How important is authenticity? You know, how much are we going to let people get away with saying things that they don't believe that they know are not true? I don't know what the answer is there, but I You know, it seems like a big question that we need to sort out as a society.
- [53:14]
Bridget Todd
Couldn't have put it better myself. More after a quick break.
- [53:22]
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- [53:42]
Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits. Plan features in taxes and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third line free via monthly bill credits. Credit stop if you cancel any lines. Qualifying credit required.
- [53:52]
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- [55:02]
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- [56:36]
Bridget Todd
Let's get right back into it. Okay, so really quick, let me tell you about this guy, James Fishback. I know what you're thinking, who never heard of him, but he is a Republican running for the governor of Florida. And this guy's background is something, first of all, financial messiness. A hedge fund that he used to work for successfully sued Fishback for more than $200,000, which he told the court that he's not able to pay. So great start for somebody who is throwing their hat in the ring to manage a state's budget, right? Then there is the political company that he keeps. He has openly defended supporters of the far right commentator Nick Fuentes by saying, quote, I found the audience of young men who follow and watch Nick Fuentes to be actually incredibly informed and insightful and very patriotic. Just for context, Nick Fuentes is like a straight up Nazi. He was just in a club in Miami, bop into that Kanye west song Heil Schmidtler. Again, I will never say that in on. No one will ever have a record of me saying that because I know the second that I do, someone's gonna clip it. So but you know, you know who I'm talking about.
- [57:48]
Mike
So I'm not trying to derail this, but when I read that in the notes for this episode, I just needed to look into it. I was like, what kind of club would possibly play that song? It turns out it's some Parisian themed club in Miami that was hosting Fuentes, the Tate Brothers, and a bunch of other manosphere chuds who all arrived on a big party bus that was blasting that song over its loudspeakers because they love it so much. After the fact, the club put out a statement that they had fired three people from their staff who were involved, which I guess is good. Like on the one hand, I feel even more angry at these dudes for getting a bunch of workers fired. But then again, if those workers were Cool with this song and thought that it was going to be, like, a fun joke to play it. Or maybe not even a fun joke. Maybe like a. A fun affirmation of their values. They can get bent. And my solidarity for almost all workers does not extend to straight up Nazis. So sorry for that diversion, but I just had to share more about that story because I could not believe that that happened in Miami, of all places.
- [59:06]
Bridget Todd
We talked about this in the episode that we did this week with Parker Malloy briefly. That was such a weird situation. I saw some, like, footage of it and they were in a sprinter van playing Heil Schmittler beforehand. And I think Sneako or one of them had an image that was like, we're driving around in a spin in the sprinter van with college hotties. And it's an image where the. The incel right wing dudes are up front and then the girl. It's like. It's like a group of girls just in the back. And it's like, I can tell that you all just paid these women to come in the sprinter van because if these were like, the girls are just talking amongst themselves, it was like, the girls are just props. Y' all aren't even, like, taught, like, embedded with or talking to or engaging with the girls in any capacity. Just like. And there's some girls in the back. I don't know what they're doing. We're not even talking to them, but we're up front doing this. And then also, funny enough, I saw a video of Andrew Tate after the fact, basically being like, I didn't request the song. I wasn't singing the song. It just happened to play Da Da da Da. And I was like, you're supposed to be this big alpha and after your big stunt, you can't even stand 10 toes down on it. You're going to be like, I just went into the club and this song Smile Schmidtler, that we had just been filming ourselves bopping to in the sprinter van. They just happened to randomly play it. I didn't even dance to it. It's like, you. I just was like, this is the. You're the big, scary alpha. You can't even, like, commit to the bit. My God.
- [60:46]
Mike
I mean, talk about distorting reality.
- [60:49]
Bridget Todd
Yes.
- [60:50]
Mike
These dudes who are all, like. They just live to, like, bench press with each other and, like, be up at the front of the bus while all the girls are in the back.
- [61:00]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I. It's also funny because I'm curious what the deal was, how the song Ended up getting played in the club. I am a former DJ. I DJ'd all through college. If somebody came up to me and was like, hey, play this song that references to Hitler positively, I would not do it. I mean, somebody. I have no recollection of this, but when I was in college, I was like 19, I was DJing a party and I, I must have been blackout drunk because I have no recollection of this. Somebody came up to the DJ booth and requested a song and apparently I flicked a lit cigarette at them and said, no requests. I have no. I, I have only heard about this from other people. I have no recollection of it actually happening. But fuck, no, I wouldn't have played this song. I would have flicked. At the very least, I would have flicked the lit cigarette act. He would said no requests.
- [61:49]
Mike
There's a lot of things in this world that I feel were like missed opportunities and make me a little sad. I feel like the fact that the world did not get a better glimpse of 20 year old Bridget, like flicking lit cigarettes at people from behind a DJ booth, this is a real tragedy. I. The people who were there, I hope they understood what they were witness to.
- [62:14]
Bridget Todd
Oh my God. I just thank God that unlike Sneako and Nick Fuentes, there's no footage of this because this was all happening at a time before that was ubiquitous.
- [62:26]
Mike
Also, a dude's name is Sneako.
- [62:28]
Bridget Todd
Sneako? Yeah, he's one of the. He's one of the chuds. Sneako.
- [62:32]
Mike
Okay.
- [62:33]
Bridget Todd
Okay, so back to Fishback. So Fishback is running for governor of Florida. He also freely admits that he spends three to four hours every day on X, just like posting content and like doing content. YouTube interviews, gaming streams. He's basically a rage bait candidate, y'. All. As Democratic political consultant Steve Shale put it. He's shown absolutely nothing to demonstrate that he's actually a serious candidate for governor. But instead of languishing in obscurity, this is, according to the Miami Herald, like the nearly three dozen other political unknowns running for Florida governor. Also, three dozen people are running for Florida governor. That is, that is some Florida nonsense right there.
- [63:18]
Mike
One of them is a gator.
- [63:21]
Bridget Todd
Like a literal alligator. This time the gator bites. Gators bite back. Yeah.
- [63:28]
Mike
His policies are socially conservative, financially liberal.
- [63:34]
Bridget Todd
And he will bite you because he's a gator. Okay. Oh, sorry, where was I? Okay. Instead of languishing in obscurity like the nearly three dozen other political unknowns running for Florida governor, his non stop social media outrage machine has raised his profile enough to force the Republican establishment to deal with him and the white nationalists that he's been courting. So here is a detail about him that connects with why I would be talking about this turd at all. He used to run a debate program for young people for kids. How did that go? Well, four years ago, the Broward County School District in Florida had to cut ties with Fishback and his organization, Incubate Debate following allegations that he had an inappropriate romantic relationship with a then 17 year old girl employed by Incubate Debate. These allegations led to the resignation of an Incubate Debate board member. Fishback also threatened the parents who made this allegation with legal action. So here's what we know. Fishback and this girl moved in together in the spring of 2023 after she turned 18. They were briefly engaged in 2024 before publicly breaking up. Now, Fishback has denied any inappropriate contact with prior to her turning 18 and reaching the age of consent. This is a denial that she disputes. She said that they did have inappropriate contact when she was 17, when she was a minor. The Broward County School District says that they cut ties with his debate program after concerns about his, quote, failure to follow district safeguards with students.
- [65:11]
Mike
So don't fuck them.
- [65:12]
Bridget Todd
This is, yeah, this is the kind of guy who wants to dictate morality to women. What do you think about that? He's definitely the kind of person who I think like needs to be. When I, when I think of somebody who is morally upstanding, it's guys like this.
- [65:29]
Mike
So just to recap, not Only was she 17 and part of this like student group thing that he was running, but she was also his employee.
- [65:39]
Bridget Todd
Correct.
- [65:40]
Mike
He's just like, maybe he has a fetish for anti ethical behavior.
- [65:46]
Bridget Todd
I mean he never paid back that 200k so. So one of the major planks of his campaign is what he is calling a syntax for Only Fans creators. He says that if he is elected governor, he will push for a 50% tax on income earned by Only Fans Creators in Florida and that that money will go to support the schools. Listen to how he talks about this. He said, quote, my message to the owners of OnlyFans is to get the hell out of our state. I hope you go bankrupt. Don't you dare come to my state and try to exploit and abuse young women. Because that's my job. Just kidding. He didn't say that. I added that. My message to the men buying this content, stop. My message to the women who are being exploited, stop. So this is just more like rage bait from this dude. His policy even called out a specific OnlyFans creator by name. He says, my proposal as Florida governor is to raise the tax on OnlyFans models income to 50%. So for someone like Sophia Rain, she would end up paying Florida $42 million in taxes. And Sophie Rain, the only Vance creator that he specifically named was like, I don't think so, honey. To quote Bowen Yang and Matt Rogers from Los Culturistas, I don't think so, honey. So she clapped back. She said, never in my whole life that I think that I would wake up and see a Florida politician trying to start beef with me for clout. She pointed out that she and all the other Only fans creators already pay significant federal taxes. We would have to pay 50% to the state on top of the 37% I already paid to the government. And I would be more than happy to pay that if multi billion dollar corporations were also being properly taxed. But surprise, they are not. So listen, one thing you say about Rain, she pay her bills because this guy was like, listen, I owe you 200k. Guess what? I can't pay it and I'm not gonna pay it. Right. Like she pays her bills. Honestly, she sounds like she would make a better governor of Florida than this guy.
- [67:52]
Mike
Yeah, I mean, I think that fictional alligator candidate would probably be a better governor.
- [67:58]
Bridget Todd
He might bite you, but at least he's not this guy.
- [68:01]
Mike
Yeah, at least you know where he stands.
- [68:03]
Bridget Todd
Yes, biting. And I just think that people like Fishback, they. I mean, I think that like Sophia Rain is exactly right. He is trying to clout Chase by talking about her, mentioning her name. She's a very popular creator, you know, makes a lot of money. And so I think that she is spot on. But I also think that it's really the fact that folks, especially women who are doing sex work and have been able to find ways to profit that might be less exploitative and give them more control. That is really what the beef is with him. Now, just to be clear, OnlyFans I think does take like 20% off the top. So it's not like, it's not like, you know, they're not getting 100% of the money. But forgive me if I think that a man who was in a relationship with a minor, according to that minor, is genuinely worried about the sexual exploitation of women and girls. It's about control. It is about him being uncomfortable with women's sexual and economic agency and autonomy being in the same place. And yeah, shout out to Sophia Nain because I think that sex workers have been involved in the labor rights movement every fight for like body autonomy and they're they're instrumental to the fight for and conversations around things like economic justice, right? Like they organize, they advocate, they protect each other, they advocate for things that end up protecting all of us. Meanwhile, politicians like Fishback are too busy not following district safeguards with young girls. So yeah, I'll just leave it at that. Let's take a quick break.
- [69:48]
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- [72:35]
Bridget Todd
And we're back. Mike, you know, I am excited because the Oscar nominations dropped this week. I want to. Can we talk briefly about it? Because, you know, I'm the kind of person who waits for the Oscar nominees to drop. Watches a lot of the films, has takes. Can, can we, can we talk a little bit about it?
- [72:54]
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. I know that you love talking about the Oscars. I have even seen several of the movies this year, so I feel like I can contribute to the conversation. And, you know, quite a few of them I think are actually relevant to the stuff we talk about on the show. So. Yeah. What, what do you think about the Oscar nominations, Bridget?
- [73:17]
Bridget Todd
Well, first of all, I have to say I think the reason why you've seen more movies that are nominated than you usually would is the positive effects of my bullying of being like, no, you gotta see this movie or no, we're gonna go see it. Let's, let's see. It's so let's see if you nerd. Yeah, I'm taking credit for that. Y' all know, I have, I have said this before. My dream is to have like a movie culture podcast on the ringer, a la the Ringer, where it's tech culture meets movies. Kind of the way that on the Ringer they talk about movies and tv, but their lens is really sports. And I feel like my, the lens through which I see the world is technology. That is, that is like my goal in life is this whole tech podcast thing is just an excuse to talk about movies and television and culture. So all things that are very important to me. Yeah. The nominees were about what I was expecting. There are a couple of notable snubs I don't know if you saw. It was just an accident. A little surprised to not see that get a shout out in Best Picture. Sinners, a movie that you and I saw together in the theater, got the most nominations of any movie ever with 16 nominations. So this is not just the most nominations of any movie. Nominated in this Oscars. In the history of the Oscars, no movie has ever been more nominated than Sinners. Major shout out to Sinner's cinematographer Autumn Derald Arkhipa, who also made Oscars history as the first ever woman of color nominated in that category. This is kind of wild. In the history of the category, no woman has ever won the Oscar for cinematography. I have a feeling she might change that if she wins, which I think she might. And only three women ever in general have been nominated. Rachel Morrison for the 2018 film Mudbound, Ari Wagner in the 2021 movie the Power of the Dog, and Mandy Walker in 2022 for Elvis. It's really one of those things where I want to celebrate this as an achievement, but also it's sort of bittersweet because I can't help but hear the small handful of women who have ever been nominated ever and be like, it's unbelievable that it's taken this long. It's unbelievable that it's 2026 when we have our first ever woman of color nominated in this category. That is wild to me.
- [75:38]
Mike
Yeah, that is surprising. I, I, I feel like it's a fact that women are underrepresented just in cinematography across the board, like as cinematographers. Is that right? Do you know if that's the case?
- [75:55]
Bridget Todd
I mean, women are underrepresented in filmmaking and all aspects of entertainment writ large. So it would not surprise me to find that cinematography that is true for cinematography. Of course. There are so many amazing women cinematographers and women filmmakers and, but it's, it's, I want to be very clear. It is not that they don't exist because they're there. I could, I could name off them. But it is true that they don't often get the support, the representation, you know, the, the placement that they deserve.
- [76:28]
Mike
Well, that makes Autumn Girard Arkhipas nomination even more impressive than.
- [76:34]
Bridget Todd
Exactly. So the best film nominees this year are Sinners, One Battle After Another, Begonia, Marty Supreme, F1, Frankenstein, Hamnet, the Secret Agent, Sentimental Value and Train Dreams. I have seen a lot of these films already, but not all of them. I still have not seen Marty Supreme. Mike, I, we had a conversation about this like maybe a month ago. I was trying to get you to come see it with me and you were like, oh, Marty Supreme, I've not heard of this movie. What's it about? And I said it's like Rocky meets Uncut Gems, but ping pong and Timothee Chalamet, surprise, surprise, you were not sold. And then you Were like, well, who is the director? What's going on with this movie? And I said, oh, it's a Softie Brothers movie. Do you remember when I watched the movie that was also directed by the Softy Brothers, Good Time, and I told you that I had to watch it while taking long breaks because it was such a stressful, stress inducing movie experience that I genuinely thought I might have been having a panic attack and that I've never had a more physically uncomfortable movie watching experience in my whole life. And then you were like, well, how was the movie? And I said, great. I loved it. It's like that basically I was not selling it. Didn't. None of this was selling you on going to see Marty supreme with me?
- [77:52]
Mike
No. And multiple people have tried to talk to me about this movie, which I have not seen, and they all do an equally terrible job of communicating to me why I should watch it. Like, I am sort of intrigued at this point just because it's like I clearly don't understand what it's about. Like, I was talking to a different friend the other day and she asked me if I'd seen it and I said no. She was like, oh, I'd never seen a movie that I appreciated so much and enjoyed so little.
- [78:25]
Sponsor/Ad Voice
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- [78:26]
Mike
Like, why, why does every take on this movie inscrutable? I don't know. I guess it does make me a little bit curious to see it. I've since gleaned that. I guess part of the appeal is that it provokes a lot of anxiety in the viewer. And I guess that's supposed to be fun because it's cool to feel something for a change. Like, is that part of it?
- [78:55]
Bridget Todd
That is a Softie Brothers vibe of making, of making movies and shows that are so anxiety provoking that the viewer. The point is that the viewer becomes physically uncomfortable and perhaps distraught. That's. That's how I would describe it. And then afterward you're like, what a great experience that was. I sure felt physically distraught.
- [79:20]
Mike
Yeah, I mean, I generally try to not feel physically distraught. I did really enjoy Uncut Gems and Beau Is Afraid, both of which are movies that made me feel very, like, edgy. Beau is Afraid, I feel was like kind of ridiculous and silly in a way that allowed me to keep a little bit of emotional distance from the anxiety. I. I guess I'm gonna have to watch Marty Supreme.
- [79:44]
Bridget Todd
Yeah, I, I think I, I would like to see it. I remember inviting my friend Nico over to watch Showa, which is the 10, if you haven't seen Shoah. It's like a 10 hour documentary about the Holocaust. And after it was over, we watched all 10 hours. When it was over, Nico turned to me and said they really did a great job of making of really making the viewer feel like they were there. Like you really feel what it must have been like because the movie is like, it's long. I love the documentary, but some might describe it as torturous. And that is not that. That is very much with intention. So I say that to say movies where the viewer is meant to experience a challenging sensation or some kind of discomfort are my. Or for whatever reason are my kind of movies.
- [80:34]
Mike
You should maybe investigate that.
- [80:40]
Bridget Todd
Point taken.
- [80:42]
Mike
Yeah. Okay, so what else was nominated? What else you got here?
- [80:47]
Bridget Todd
I did want to shout out two of the noms for best documentary. One is Perfect Neighbor was nominated for best documentary. We interviewed Soledad o', Brien, one of the producers of that film and a personal hero of mine, for an episode that aired on November 25. It was around the Thanksgiving holiday, so folks might have missed it. I will say Perfect Neighbor is a bit of a controversial documentary. I was listening to the Ringers movie podcast, the Big Picture where they were breaking down the Oscar noms and one of the hosts was talking about how he liked the documentary when he first saw it on Netflix. But then the more he thought about it, the kind of like, queasier it made him. And Soledad o' Brien and I in our interview, that was one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to her, because the documentary, if folks haven't seen it, it's about a horrible murder that happened in Florida where a woman killed her neighbor and tried to claim that she did so because she feared for her life to get protection under the stand your. The state, stand your ground laws. And so we. The entire film is shot entirely through surveillance footage, so police footage and, you know, ring camera footage. And it's a pretty rough watch. There's like one scene in particular that is. That is particularly hard to watch and controversial. And so I understand the feeling of this is queasy. You know, should this have been air? What are the ethics of this? And that's exactly the conversation that Soledad o' Brien and I had in that interview. We'll put the conversation in the show notes, but it's a conversation that I'm very proud of and sold out. O' Brien is just a very cool person and she's one of my personal heroes and so just was cool to talk to her about it on the podcast.
- [82:30]
Mike
Yeah, I did see that one. And I also really enjoyed listening to that interview that you did with Soledad o'. Brien. You two talked about, I guess, the controversy around the film and the ethics of using surveillance footage and the ethics of some other aspects of what was included that I won't get into because I don't want to spoil it for anybody. And I thought you two had a really thoughtful, interesting conversation about it. I guess I personally feel like a lot of the sort of vague queasiness that people are expressing about it, I don't totally get. Yeah, I guess I don't totally get it. It feels a little avoidant to me.
- [83:19]
Bridget Todd
So I get it when people are talking about why that movie makes them uncomfortable, I completely get it. I just don't happen to agree. I also felt very uncomfortable with what we see in that documentary. And if you haven't seen it, it's something specific. If you have seen it, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I understand. I experienced the same discomfort, the same queasiness, the same sort of going through the ethics of it. But. And especially after that conversation that I had with Soledad o' Brien about it, it is clear to me why the movie is the way it is. It is clear to me why the team made the choices that they did ethically, editorially, visually. All of it. All of it. All of it is very clear to me. And I think folks should see the documentary if they haven't already. It's on Netflix. And they should listen to the conversation that Soledad o' Brien and I have about it, because to me, they. They pair very nicely. And I guess I'll just leave it there, because I feel like we're talking about a movie that people are probably like, what are you talking about? But it is definitely a good documentary, and I think folks should check it out. I also wanted to shout out another movie nominated for best documentary, come See Me in the Good Light, which is a documentary produced by the comedian Tig Notaro, about the life of the late Colorado poet laureate Andrea Gibson, who was one of my favorite poets who died of ovarian cancer over the summer. Mike, one of your favorite musicians, Brandi Carlisle, who I know that you really like, wrote an original song for that film.
- [84:46]
Mike
I know. It's great. I love it.
- [84:49]
Bridget Todd
Oh, you are.
- [84:49]
Mike
You're already.
- [84:50]
Bridget Todd
I'm not. You're like, tell me something I don't know.
- [84:53]
Mike
No, I'm. I'm up to date on Brandi Carlile's work. Yes. Okay.
- [84:57]
Bridget Todd
Here I thought I was going to be able to tell you something, listeners, y' all have no idea how into Brandi Carlisle Mike is. Honestly, though, if I can, like, embarrass you just for a moment, people would be very surprised to look at Mike's Spotify. I'll just say this. If you are a woman with a guitar and like a. Like a wounded soul and a song in your heart and a twang to you, Mike is fucking with it. Am I lying?
- [85:26]
Mike
You're not lying. No. That's a wounded soul in a guitar and a song in their heart. Yeah. That's a person I want to listen to. That's what I want out of art.
- [85:37]
Bridget Todd
Yes. So I'm actually surprised that the Brandi Carlisle song was not nominated for best original song. I was surprised. But this documentary, I'm glad that the documentary got a nomination. It's on Apple tv. It is beautiful. It'll make you cry. Andrea Gibson was just one of those uniquely talented people, and we were so lucky to have them. I feel personally lucky that Andrea Gibson put their voice into the world and their perspective into the world. So it kind of was a sleeper film. I really was surprised to see it on the nomination list. Like, pleasantly surprised, because it didn't get a lot of press and attention when it first came out.
- [86:19]
Mike
Curious that it's a documentary from Tig Notaro. I didn't know that Tign Notaro was making documentaries.
- [86:25]
Bridget Todd
Oh, Tig Notaro, multi hyphenate.
- [86:28]
Mike
Also podcaster, really does it all.
- [86:52]
Bridget Todd
Okay, so some of those are some of the high points for film in 2025, 2026.
- [86:57]
Mike
Are we going to go through the low points?
- [86:59]
Bridget Todd
Well, I just have to shout out, you know, our favorite. So they're that if the Oscars are out, that means the Razzies are out. The Razzies celebrate the opposite end of the spectrum. The worst movies. Guess what? Guess what movie snagged a nomination for worst movie of the year.
- [87:14]
Mike
Oh, man. If they had an award for worst movie of the decade, I think it would be a strong contender.
- [87:22]
Bridget Todd
War of the Worlds, which folks might remember. We talked about it on the podcast. I told producer Mike if I think it was. At least five people wrote in and left comments saying that we. That we should do a rewatch episode of it. We would do it. Five of y'. All. I don't know what was going on with you all, but five of you knuckleheads actually wrote in, so we did it.
- [87:46]
Mike
This is like a cursed monkey paw version of your dream to have a movie podcast on The Ringer. It's like you can have a movie podcast, but you only get to review War of the Worlds.
- [87:57]
Bridget Todd
I just. Every day I wake up and have to do yes. So in this universe, they keep making sequel after sequel after sequel, and I'm just like Twilight Zone stuck in reviewing it.
- [88:06]
Mike
Battle of the Worlds, Skirmish of the Worlds, War of the Planets. And it's. It's.
- [88:13]
Bridget Todd
Yes.
- [88:13]
Mike
All the same footage shot in front of a green screen.
- [88:18]
Bridget Todd
Oh, my God, what a masterpiece. If. Well, I mean, we'll put it in the show notes. That episode was. Actually, we've done a few movie rewatch episodes of the podcast that I force on you and all the listeners. That one was difficult because the movie just patently makes no sense. And so usually when you're talking about a movie on a podcast, the plot follows a certain structure. You can break it down for people even if they haven't seen it. Maybe it's. Maybe it's interesting to listen to. War of the Worlds is, like, off the fucking charts. Like, I. I remember being like. Like, the notes that we took looked like the Pepe Silvia, always sunny diagram. It was so gnarly.
- [89:02]
Mike
Yeah. I watched a video after the fact of somebody just putting together a composite of Ice Cube just delivering takes to the camera. And they were arguing. I don't know if they had evidence or not that this was actually what happened, but it totally fits. They were saying that, like, he didn't even know what the script was gonna be. He just, like, sat down in front of a green screen and recorded a bunch of takes of being like, that's crazy. Oh, no. And then they stitched that together and called it a feature film.
- [89:39]
Bridget Todd
That's what they did. That's what they did.
- [89:41]
Mike
It's a wild approach to making movies or entertainment. And we watched it, and we sure did.
- [89:57]
Bridget Todd
Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach us@helloangodi.com you can also find transcripts for today's episode@tangodi.com there are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer. Producer Tari Harrison is our producer, and sound engineer Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate, and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
- [90:42]
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
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Bridget Todd
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