Mark Zuckerberg's AI Era Has a Woman Problem. It Always Did.

Summary

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"Mark Zuckerberg's AI Era Has a Woman Problem. It Always Did."

There Are No Girls on the Internet w/ Bridget Todd

Original Air Date: May 12, 2026
Guests: Samantha & Annie (Stuff Mom Never Told You)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the enduring misogyny at the heart of Facebook (now Meta), using the 2010 film The Social Network as a lens to explore how the founding myths and culture of Facebook continue to shape (and haunt) the internet today—particularly as the company plunges into its latest AI era. Host Bridget Todd, alongside Samantha and Annie from Stuff Mom Never Told You, dissects the movie’s portrayal of Mark Zuckerberg, the “woman problem” embedded in the platform’s origins, and reflects on why, despite progress, the tech world’s gender dynamics remain troubled. Looking ahead, they discuss the forthcoming companion film, The Social Reckoning, centered on whistleblower Frances Haugen's revelations about Facebook’s harms to women and girls.

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Major Discussion Points & Insights

Revisiting The Social Network: Myth vs. Reality

• The hosts frame The Social Network as a fun yet sobering way to discuss real issues, noting the ease of using a film narrative to access emotionally difficult truths (05:09).
• There’s a blurring between real-life figures (like Mark Zuckerberg) and their on-screen personas—“To me, Jesse Eisenberg is more Mark Zuckerberg than Mark Zuckerberg” (Bridget Todd, 06:22).
• The conversation highlights how the film “was very kind to all of the individual people” despite underlying harsh realities (Host 2, 07:02).
• The group reflects on the film’s status as “culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant” and its contentious accuracy, noting many depicted in the film dispute its version of events (09:33).

Founding Myths: Misogyny at the Core

• The plot recap: Bridget details how, after a breakup, Zuckerberg builds “Facemash” to rate female students, leading to the founding of Facebook—a move grounded in campus misogyny (12:27).
• The misogyny is not just digital but also “baked into” campus culture: “Zuckerberg didn’t invent that. He just put it online and made it scalable.” (Bridget Todd, 07:42)
• The infamous finals clubs are discussed as a motif for exclusion: “What if we use the internet to build a world that is all about the exclusivity and, you know, gross parts of frat life, only we're in charge of it?” (Bridget Todd, 18:03)

Digital Power—and Who Gets Left Out

• The hosts draw parallels between Zuckerberg’s behavior in the film and ongoing issues in tech: women and marginalized folk are let in only as guests—always existing within someone else’s rules (Host 1, 19:33).
• “You can come in, but we can kick you out just as easily ... you need to exist only in the way we think you should exist” (Host 1, 19:33).

Tech’s Enduring “Alpha Male” Archetype

• The discussion explores how Zuckerberg's “lone wolf/alpha” attitude became a model for Silicon Valley—often at the cost of community, empathy, and inclusivity (Host 1, 64:03).
• Bridget critiques how this archetype is valorized: “Today... what we repackaged as cool and sold to a generation of young men and boys is: you are a lone wolf. You are an alpha. Money over everything, your success over everything. You are not part of a community.” (Bridget Todd, 61:06)
• Sheryl Sandberg’s stint as COO is discussed as a “woman as adult in the room” trope, and how Zuckerberg later threw her under the bus for political expedience (Bridget Todd, 61:06).
• The affectation of “breaking the rules” (hoodies, disrespect for authority, posturing) is called out as equally calculated and performative as traditional professionalism (Bridget Todd, 65:10).

Race, Gender, and Representation in the Film

• The group unpacks the clumsy depiction of Asian women in The Social Network, noting their fetishization and objectification (68:19).
• “It felt very much like... women are not respected in any way... and of course there would be a fetishized person, but it immediately had to be an Asian woman.” (Host 2, 69:15)
• They also discuss the movie’s failure to explore race meaningfully, spotlighting that the only engagement is via the trope of the Asian woman, not through any deeper structural critique (Bridget Todd, 70:29).

Facebook’s Real-World Legacy

• The hosts share their own college-era memories of Facebook’s rise, emphasizing its initial exclusivity and how that translated into long-lasting digital hierarchies (23:41, 27:55).
• They discuss how Facebook shaped digital relationship norms—like “Facebook official” statuses and manipulative engagement tactics that set the template for social media virality (72:25).
• The group notes how their own interactions with Facebook as advocates for women's safety were met with inertia: “They would take the meeting, they would listen… but nothing really ever got done” (Bridget Todd, 75:24).

Looking Ahead: The Social Reckoning

• Excitement but some apprehension surrounds Aaron Sorkin's upcoming companion film focused on the Frances Haugen revelations.
• Bridget hopes this piece will “be the flower that blooms,” showing that the misogyny seeded at the origins of Facebook has harmed generations of women and girls (Bridget Todd, 76:51).

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Notable Quotes & Standout Moments

• On mythologizing tech founders:
  “To me, Jesse Eisenberg is more Mark Zuckerberg than Mark Zuckerberg. At this point, when I imagine Mark Zuckerberg in my mind, I'm actually picturing Jesse Eisenberg.” (Bridget Todd, 06:22)
• On misogyny at the core:
  “The way that misogyny... bookends the film... the way that these college campuses are sort of portrayed as, like, misogynistic meat markets where women are just commodities. I think the movie is trying to illustrate how, like, Zuckerberg didn’t invent that. He just put it online and made it scalable.” (Bridget Todd, 07:42)
• On digital exclusivity:
  “What we want to do with Facebook, it's like building a finals club, except we're the president.” (Bridget Todd quoting The Social Network, 18:03)
• On tech's "woman problem":
  “Facebook is a platform where they’re just... not thinking about this stuff the way you or I might... It’s no surprise that they are so hostile to even the implication that their platform should not be hostile to women.” (Bridget Todd, 75:24)
• On performative rebellion:
  “You're actually using this as a kind of artifice or costume to signal something to others about you. So, like, it's not even any more authentic than someone who wears a suit...” (Bridget Todd, 65:10)
• On “alpha male” Silicon Valley:
  “What we repackaged as cool and sold to a generation of young men and boys is: you are a lone wolf. You are an alpha. Money over everything, your success over everything.” (Bridget Todd, 61:06)
• On race and representation:
  “...women are not respected in any way... and of course there would be a fetishized person, but it immediately had to be an Asian woman. And I felt like it was targeted, but I can’t really grasp it.” (Host 2, 69:15)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:10 — Bridget introduces the episode’s central theme: Facebook’s ongoing “woman problem,” traced through its founding myths and current AI agenda.
• 07:42 — Open discussion of misogyny’s role in The Social Network and Facebook’s origins.
• 12:27 — Bridget's comprehensive plot recap, highlighting real-world misogynistic roots.
• 19:33 — Gatekeeping in tech and the persistent exclusion and policing of marginalized voices.
• 23:41 — Hosts reflect on their personal experiences during Facebook’s early exclusive rollout.
• 61:06 — Critique of “lone wolf” Silicon Valley and the consequences on tech culture.
• 65:10 — The artifice of “breaking the rules” as a founder, contrasted with conventional professionalism.
• 69:15 — Analysis of the portrayal and fetishization of Asian women in The Social Network.
• 75:24 — Bridget discusses her advocacy at Facebook and the company’s inertia on women's safety.
• 76:51 — Anticipation for the sequel/companion film, The Social Reckoning, and hope for change.

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Closing Thoughts

The episode is a rich exploration of how tech’s origin stories matter, with The Social Network serving as a cultural mirror showing how misogyny, exclusion, and performative rebellion still echo through platforms like Facebook/Meta. The hosts challenge the ongoing mythos around tech founders, critique how inclusivity is still conditional, and express guarded hope that the next chapter—onscreen and off—will better hold power to account for its impact on women and marginalized groups.

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Find Bridget Todd at:

• There Are No Girls on the Internet
• Instagram & Threads: @bridgetmarieindc

Find Stuff Mom Never Told You at:

• Instagram and TikTok: @stuffmomnevertoldyou
• Book info & more at their website

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Transcript

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Bridget Todd]

There Are no Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd, and this is There Are no Girls on the Internet. It's 2026 and Facebook is back in the discourse this time because Meta is throwing everything it's got into AI New products, new models, full speed ahead. No brakes. And if this sounds a little bit familiar, it should, because the story of how Mark Zuckerberg got here and who got left behind, erased or just plain lied about along the way, well, that's a story that hasn't really changed much. I sat down with my friends Samantha and Annie from the podcast Stuff mom never told you'd to revisit a movie that we like talking about a lot, the Social Network, a film that somehow just keeps getting more relevant. We're digging into what that movie has to say about the misogyny baked into the founding myth of one of the Internet's most powerful companies. And also looking ahead to the sequel centered on whistleblower Frances Haugen's findings about how Facebook knowingly harmed women and girls. So on the one hand, it's a conversation about a film that came out over 15 years ago, but on the other, it's also kind of a movie about everything happening right now.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

We didn't anticipate when this episode was going to come out. You know, we've been hinting at it for a long time, but it is coming out at a time where I think we need to take a a fun break. I think a lot of people need that kind of fun break right now.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

I would say it is a fun break, but at the same time, like we're still going to talk about issues, but it's way too I'm like, yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes, we are. Absolutely. It's a fun break, I guess, for us. Maybe your listeners will be like, oh, no.

[Bridget Todd]

Well, I feel like the lens through using movies as the entry point to talk about things that are real or rough, I think is great because your brain is like, this is all fictional. Even though another part of your brain is like, no, this is real. You get the, you, you. I don't know. I don't know if other people feel this way. It kind of lulls me into feeling like, oh, this is not scary or upsetting, even though it is real. Because you've got that thin veneer of, oh, this is a fictionalized account.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes. And as listeners know, if you looked at the title, we are talking about the Social Network today. And I have to say, to your point, Bridget, I kept, when I was like, just writing my random thoughts and notes, I kept referring to the like, like they were characters. I was like, oh, then Mark did this or whatever. And it was bizarre because I, I, I know that's a real person, Mark Zuckerberg out there, but I was referring to him as if he was like a character, which I do know there is some debate about, you know, how dramatized this is, you know, how accurate it is. But I did catch myself doing that several times.

[Bridget Todd]

To me, Jesse Eisenberg is more Mark Zuckerberg than Mark Zuckerberg. At this point, when I imagine Mark Zuckerberg in my mind, I'm actually picturing Jesse Eisenberg. That's how much he became Mark Zuckerberg or maybe is a Zuckerberg type. I don't know. But yeah, they're, they're one in the same. In my mind, I wonder how he

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

would feel about that.

[Bridget Todd]

Honestly, like, win for the real Mark Zuckerberg that when I picture him, I don't picture the actual dweeb that is Mark Zuckerberg. I picture Jesse Eisenberg, somebody who I actually, like, have a fondness for.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Right.

[Bridget Todd]

And think has a little bit of, has, like charm.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes. I think this movie was very kind to all of the individual people character with the people that represented them. I was like, how is Justin Timberlake, Sean?

[Bridget Todd]

Totally agree, totally agree.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Nope. I had a lot of questions. And yes, like, Jesse Eisenberg is definitely, like, endearing, seemingly, like he has this Persona of being endearing. So having an endearing person portray you did him favors. Even though from my observation of this movie, I was like, okay, so what I'm understanding is Zuckerberg is an autistic. Could have been incel had he not had this route, like, that's what I found out.

[Bridget Todd]

The way that misogyny. And I know we're going to talk about it, but the way that misogyny bookends the film and then is this thread throughout even, you know, obviously, with how Zuckerberg starts getting these ideas for Facebook, but even in ways that are not connected to the digital world, the way that these college campuses are sort of portrayed as, like, misogynistic meat markets where women are just commodities. I think the movie is trying to illustrate how, like, Zuckerberg didn't invent that. He just put it online and made it scalable.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Oh, yes. We have so much to talk about. So I hope this is the first of a series where we do tech movies and we have these conversations. I know that you have some. You've mentioned before you want to talk about Bridget, but yes, we. I think this is a good one to kick it off with Social Network. So I'm going to give a brief rundown of it, and then I'll ask you if you can give a brief plot description of it.

[Bridget Todd]

I sure can. I sure can.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Excellent. So the Social Network was a 2010 film based on the book the Accidental Billionaires, which was written by Ben Mezrich. It was directed by David Fincher and written by Aaron Sorkin. And it depicted the origins of Facebook, how Facebook came to be. So, yes, we got Jesse Eisenberg playing Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg. Andrew Garfield playing his friend and business partner until they weren't. Eduardo Savran. Justin Timberlake as Sean Parker, the founder of Napster and a mentor to Zuckerberg. And Armie Hammer as the Winklevoss twins, which I remember when this came out, I watched, like, a special on how they did his. How they did the twins. And if you noticed, one of them is usually wearing, like, a bandana or something. And that's for the face scanning. Oh,

[Bridget Todd]

that makes a lot of sense.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes. Yes, this film was a critical and financial success. In 2020, the Library of Congress named the Social Network as, quote, culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant and inducted it into their National Film Registry. Of note, a lot of people depicted in the film were very adamant that this was not an accurate portrayal of events. And I also just have to say, the kid from Jurassic park, who I had a crush on when I was a kid, was in this movie.

[Bridget Todd]

Who is he?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Dustin Moskovitz. He's the roommate coder.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes. Wow.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

That's the kid from Jurassic Park.

[Bridget Todd]

I would have never picked that up. And Also, side note, of course, you had a crush on that kid.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

I know. So me. Oh my gosh. All right, so Bridget, can you run down the plot for us?

[Bridget Todd]

I can. So the movie opens up in 2003 with Mark Zuckerberg. He's a sophomore at Harvard. He has just gotten dumped by his girlfriend Erica, who is fictional. Like the Erica character that we see that bookends the film is not based on a real person. He is at a bar with her. He's being very dismissive and condescending to her. She breaks up with him, he goes home, he gets drunk, and he writes a nasty blog post about her. And in a fit of bitter energy, hacks in to the Harvard student directories to build a site called Facemash to let people rate the female students in all the dorms against each other. He said that he was initially thinking about having the girls pictures next to farm animals, but then he decided not to do that. That is not fictional. That is a real quote from what a then college sophomore Mark Zuckerberg wrote. So he ends up making this site face Mash. It's so popular that it crashes the university servers overnight becomes a complete sensation and it lands Zuckerberg in some campus disciplinary trouble. All of this hubbub catches the attention of the twins that you just mentioned before, Cameron and Tyler Winklevoss and their business partner, who recruit Zuckerberg to help build out a plan that they had for a Harvard only social network that they were calling Harvard Connection. Zuckerberg agrees. There's definitely a dynamic where they are these tall guys on the rowing team and Zuckerberg's this big nerd and you've got these big, these, these big strong like men about town, like men on campus recruiting who were meant to understand as like this like kind of like mousy neurotic, you know, beta to, to use language that I'm, that I'm sure that they have used amongst each other. So Zuckerberg ends up kind of besting these two. He just sort of. He agrees. He takes their money to build the site, strings them along for months, doesn't do any real work, and then launches his own site. That kind of is a very similar idea. The Facebook. Com. The site explodes. Zuckerberg's best friend Eduardo becomes his co founder and puts up the initial money. Then Napster co founder Sean Parker, who is played by Justin Timberlake, breezes into their lives, instantly charms Mark Zuckerberg and gradually pushes Eduardo, who up until this point had been this like loyal friend to Zuckerberg. Although they did have some, like, tension, ends up pushing Eduardo out of the company while pulling Facebook towards Silicon Valley and toward Sean Parker and the investment of Peter Thiel. The whole story is kind of framed around these two simultaneous lawsuits. The Winklevoss twins suing Zuckerberg for stealing his idea, and Eduardo Zuckerberg's previous best friend suing him for pushing him out of the company and diluting his shares down to almost nothing. In the end, both cases end up settling. The movie, I said it starts with Zuckerberg having problems with a woman in his life. Well, the sort of Citizen Kane reveal at the end of the movie is Zuckerberg sitting alone, refreshing his ex girlfriend Erica's Facebook page, just waiting to see if she will accept his friend request. And she does not. The irony is very clear. Facebook has 500 million friends. Zuckerberg doesn't have a single one.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

I love the ending so much.

[Bridget Todd]

It's so good

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

because he's so sad and so alone and he just keeps refreshing the page and it lingers on that moment. It. It holds. And he has this conversation with Sean Parker. Sean Parker says, the reason I started Napster was because there was a girl. I wanted to get her attention. She was with someone else. And Zuckerberg asked him, like, do you still think about her? Do you still think about that girl? And Sean Parker's like, no, but you've got Mark Zuckerberg who's still hung up on, oh, she broke up with me. He tries to have that conversation with her later. He's like, oh, I made this website. Have you seen it? Maybe you've heard of it? And she's like, good luck with your video game.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, that Sean Parker scene really stuck with me. He said.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

He.

[Bridget Todd]

He's like, oh, you want to know why I admitted Napster, the girl I loved in high school, was with the captain of the lacrosse team. So I wanted to take her from him. So I started the next big thing. And he's like. He's like, oh, I saw your. Your face. Smash blog. And Zuckerberg is like, oh, like, that was just me, you know, playing to the. The trolls in basements online. But Parker is like, no, no, no, I wasn't dismissing it. I loved it. Like, isn't that what this whole thing is about? You know, this is our time. And I think, like, it just really points to the ethos of technology being that gross, childish, toxic man with a misogynistic chip on their shoulder. And clearly for Parker, he. It was not even about that girl, really. He's like, I don't even think about her at all. It was about the girl was just a through line to make himself feel more important than this, like, jock on the lacrosse team who he feels like bested him. And so I say that to say, you see how much of our current tech infrastructure is built by personal, deeply personal animus and misogyny.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes. I mean, the whole idea that Facebook started. He. In the movie at least he gets broken up with, go straight home, Makes this based on. Makes this being rating two pictures of two women. And then there's a scene that follows, like a montage scene of a bunch of college dudes, like, laughing and rating the women. And then also there. There's a through line we're going to come back to, but of exclusivity. And Zuckerberg really wanting to get into these private final clubs. Let me get it right. Final clubs. Okay. Which are. I. I don't know. They sound like great fraternities where you get hazed, and I guess they're really fancy and well known, but he really wants to get into them and does not. But you. So you have a scene of those final clubs where there's a bus picking up young women and the men are watching them, like, strip and kiss and all of this stuff. And then you have, like, shots of women seeing face mash and being like, oh, this is so pathetic. This is so sad. And then you see Erica kind of finding out. Erica, the girl that broke up with him, finding out what she wrote about him and being mocked for it. And so I thought that was a really interesting, like, the way that montage breaks down of seeing how this plays out online. Because Zuckerberg makes the point several times we're trying to put college life online, but also how it is playing out in real life in college, like outside of the Internet in college.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. There's the scene where you sort of. You just described it where Erica is in her dorm and Mark, in his angry blog after she dumps him, says, like, oh, she may seem like she's got a decent body, but she's getting a lot of help from padding and Victoria's Secret. Two guys bust into her dorm room to berate her about this, shaking bras at her. And I think it really shows, like, just the climate of casual misogyny. These women are existing in both online and off. But once it's. Once that world is transferred to the digital realm, how it becomes supercharged. Right. And you know, Mark has this line in the movie where he says, what we want to do with Facebook, it's like building a finals club, except we're the president. Because in the movie, you see both Mark and his friend Eduardo having a lot of, like, rivalry, intention, and anxiety about whether or not they're going to get into the best finals club. That. That argument with Erica at the beginning of the movie, it starts with her saying, you should try out for the easiest to get into club. And he's like, what, you think I can't get into the harder to get into clubs? And so, you know, I really think that idea that, like, what if we use the Internet to build a world that is all about the exclusivity and, you know, gross parts of frat life, only we're in charge of it. Like that. I think that, like, that really is. When I am on Facebook or X or Instagram, I feel like I. He really did. That really does nicely summarize, I think, the tech landscape that we're all in now. It's like a finals club, except it's run by people like Mark Zuckerberg.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes, yes. And he also has a line in the beginning when he's talking with Erica about so condescending, where he says, you know, you should really be more invested in this because I'm going to be opening the doors for you. Essentially, you're going to meet a lot of people because of me. And that just reminds me so much of a lot what is going on with her. A lot of things. But in this instance, the tech industry is, you know, you can. Women, marginalized folks, you can come in, but we're the ones going to open the door. You have to exist within our framework and with our. Within our rules. And I. I feel like we've just seen that at so many. So many lawsuits, like, the lawsuit with Blizzard is one that comes to mind where it feels very like you can come in, but we can kick you out just as easily. You need to exist only for. Only in the way we think that you should exist.

[Bridget Todd]

And when we see the montage of all the different guys that are around, it's like part of me is like, these are the people she's meant to be thanking you for putting her around. These guys all seem like animals, you know, like these, like, drunk guys, like, hooting at women to take their clothes off. I'm supposed to be like, oh, yeah, thanks for getting me into this world.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

This is what I've always wanted.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, right.

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[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

I found it interesting because. So this is my first viewing. I've never actually seen it. I've only seen, like, previews or, like, excerpts of it. So there was a lot of fascination because this is also putting me back into the beginning of Facebook because I was in that era. I was. I was at the beginning remembering you had to be an edu. It had to be an edu in order to register into Facebook to begin with. And it only really stuck with you in that university, that that's the only way you could get into Facebook. Like, I was in that era. So seeing all the beginning of this and then seeing the beginning of Silicon Valley and like, we didn't know at meant at that time as this was beginning in the year of 2005, by the way, I found out I was older than Zuckerberg at that moment. And I was like, I hate everything right now. I hate it. Like, when you start, like, referencing timelines, I'm like, God, okay, fine. Anyway, but seeing all of that, seeing it unfold and then them, not exactly us, not exactly realizing what this would end to, but seeing this in an entertainment value. Also in the rhetoric of, like, Dawson Creek era of monologues or dialogues that I was like, what is. What is this?

[Bridget Todd]

If that's baby.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes, it is like the. The Audi McMill days of dialogue and conversation and characters. I was like, wow. Wow. This movie really is. Is. Was the beginning of a whole new, like, subplot slash, like, ideals and plot lines that would become stereotypical now.

[Bridget Todd]

It's so funny to hear you say this. I'm rewatching Dawson's Creek, and boy, do those kids make a lot of dramatic monologues in public to each other. But that was Sorkin. Sorkin. I don't know if you ever watched the West Wing, which I loved, or the Newsroom, which is like a terrible show, but I secretly have seen every episode and love it very much. But, like, the amount, like, in normal life, how often has someone stood up on a plane and made a dramatic, grandstanding speech in Sorkin world and happens, like, every other beat.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes,

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

it is kind of satisfying to watch.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, I love it. I love it. I'm such a sucker for. I'm a sucker for so many of the Sorkin tropes, the speeches, the. The Walking quickly while discussing something. West Wing did that. It's just like. It's just like something in my brain. I'm like, yes. Show me two people quickly strutting. They couldn't take a minute to discuss this thing standing or, like, just get book time on my calendar. Make. Have a meeting. No, we have to. We're so busy. We gotta, like, do a walk and talk. I love a walk and talk. Yeah. I remember when Facebook. So I was. I was in college when Facebook became big. And I remember. I remember when I started college, before Facebook was invented and I graduated, when Facebook was a thing, I was a scene kid, an alt kid. So I was like a MySpace girl, a LiveJournal girl. Like, if you were alt, those were your platforms. When Facebook came. I remember the girl in the dorm next to me, she claimed to have been the reason why Facebook came to our college. Because I think you had to, like, advocate for. At this time, after all the exclusive IVs got Facebook, you had to advocate for your big public university to get it, for Facebook to deign to be there. And this girl who lived next to me was like, I'm the reason why Facebook came to East Carolina University. I remember thinking it was kind of passe and that MySpace was where all the cool kids were. Because you can put music on your MySpace profile. Like, you could, like, customize your MySpace profile. And it's so funny how obviously MySpace did not have staying power. You know, MySpace calm is not. The. Like, is not meeting in the Trump White House and, like, disrupting our democracy. Not to say that MySpace was all good, because it wasn't. But it's just funny how if I had to guess which one of these platforms would go on to entrench itself in power, it would not have been Facebook.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

No, I had to look up because now that I'm like, oh, there was a. There was a. I guess a tear in how Facebook would allow. Who. Which universities. I had to look up my school. It was fairly late 2004, 2005.

[Bridget Todd]

Wow.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

So we were pretty early on. And we were not Ivy League.

[Bridget Todd]

Okay. I have to look this up.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Uga. It was uga. So, like, it's a really good school. It's a good school, but we're not Ivy League. Come on.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

You.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

You, like, come on. But, like, I was like. Because I remember being. I think I started. I think I began my account in 2005, 2006.

[Bridget Todd]

Okay. I think my school was in the same. I just looked it up, and it said ecu. East Carolina University, where I'm to college. A much worse school than UGA. I mind you got Facebook around 2004, 2006. So I would have been. Yeah, that would have been, like, around junior to senior year for me. That's. That's. That sounds right.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

I feel like I. Facebook came out. I was never on MySpace. I wasn't on anything like that. So I just didn't join it, and my friends kind of got on it. And then in 2010. 2009. No, it had to have been earlier than that. 2000, I would say 8. 2008, when I went to Australia, whenever that was, my friends made me sign up for Facebook so we could share pictures together. And I have to say that's pretty much what it's remained as this since then. It's just where I put some pictures sometimes. Now it's pretty much dead. That is another thing. And this is kind of a transition into the. One of the next things I want to talk about is it was fascinating watching this movie because now they have this whole conversation about how Facebook is so cool. We can't make money because it's so cool. That would ruin the vibe. And now it's, like, pretty uncool. Yeah, but it was, you know, 2010. It was still pretty cool. But I wanted to talk about some of the. The takeaways watching it now versus when, like, Bridget and I saw it. I saw it when it first came out.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, same. I was hyped for it.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Remember we talked about the trailer?

[Bridget Todd]

Remember the. The Coral version of Radio hits Creep, y'. All. If y' all weren't there. Y' all don't remember. I was hyped for this movie. It was so. The trailer was so arresting. I must have watched that trailer half a dozen times.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

And he has this whole he wants to be cool. He wants Facebook to be cool and exclusivity vibe. But I don't know, there was just something about how I saw that in all of his relationships, whatever they might be, of, you know what? I'm gonna get what I need out of you, and then I'm gonna drop you, because Facebook is my life. And that's it.

[Bridget Todd]

He certainly did it to Sheryl Sandberg, in my opinion. You know, Sheryl Sandberg came on as the first ever COO at Facebook. She came on at a time when there was a lot of bad press, a lot of bad behavior, a lot of wrongdoing, and the sense was, oh, we were bringing in a woman to sort of be the adult in the room. For Mark. And Mark got a lot of cachet out of that of, like, oh, well, don't worry about my erratic decision making and erratic behavior and, like, bad business practices. There's a woman around who is supposed to be helping when. When Cheryl. So, like, she came to Facebook with, like, so much fanfare, she wrote Lean In. It was like, the book that was supposed to be a defining book of, like, what it meant for women in the workplace, yada, yada, yada. Cut to her leaving Facebook with hardly even a peep. There was, like, very little fanfare. And then in the earlier. In the early days of a second Trump administration, Zuckerberg completely threw her under the bus. He met with the Trump administration and said, oh, yeah, all of that content moderation and fact checking and diversity stuff, I wasn't into any of it. All of that stuff was Sheryl Sandberg. You know how women are. And there was a little bit of, like, PR dark arts where she. More like, he made a Facebook post about, like, no, actually, we respect Cheryl Sandberg. Did it walk back any of the things that he said about all that stuff being, quote, her fault. But it just goes to show, like, he is somebody who will. When he needed to signal to people that the company had a woman in charge who was a grown up, who was moderating him. Sheryl Sandberg was his ride or die. When the tide turned and Trump wanted, you know, there to be less diversity, less inclusivity, less guardrails, he threw her under the bus us so quickly. And so I think if you asked Mark Zuckerberg that you. You should be using people only for what they offer you, and people who are in his orbit should understand that that Runway is very short. That is not what I believe. I think that you, I. If he wants to be cool, I don't think ditching your friends is cool. But I also do think, like, I'm not even really sure how to describe this, but, like, we are at a time today where acting like this has been rebranded as cool. When I was coming up, the cool kids stuck by their friends. The cool kids had values, they had morals. They had backbones. I think today, what we repackaged as cool and sold it to a generation of young men and boys is you are a lone wolf. You are an alpha. Money over everything, your success over everything. You are not part of a community. You don't even need to think about stuff like that. The only thing that matters is cash and power. And so, like, I. I guess I hate to say it, but I feel like Mark Zuckerberg was kind of on the upswing of this wave, of that new sentiment that I do think is very. Is very commonplace today, I guess. Does that make sense?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes, I completely agree. One of the things I was thinking about when I was rewatching this was, I think, the first. Because you can. You can, like, join Facebook and not know who Zuckerberg is, especially in the early days. So I didn't know who he was, but I think the first time I heard about him was some news piece about how he, I don't know, wore sandals at a meeting and, like, wore T shirts. And it was like, oh, he's changing the game. And, like, it was such a look at him. He's a maverick. And that has stuck. I was thinking about how, you know, in Silicon Valley now it is kind of the. The office has got a slide. And, like, it's a very. The impact he had, I think, of that mentality, of that kind of, I'm an. I'm a lone wolf, I'm an alpha, I think, has had a really lasting impact. And you can see it reflected in a bunch of other companies.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, yes. And I think it's important to note, like, who kind of gets away with that, because I don't think if I. If I. If like a founder that looks like me rolled in wearing a bonnet, I think they might feel very differently about it. But even look at people like Elizabeth Holmes, she very intentionally styled herself to look bad. Like, she. This is a known thing. She intentionally styled her hair to look undone to signal to people like, oh, I'm the kind of founder that's way too busy focused on my business to worry about things like brushing my hair or proper hair care. And so you see how, like, this just becomes another piece of artifice to build your mythos around. Like that scene where Zuckerberg shows up to a hearing in pajamas or something or, like, sweats. I think it's like, it just becomes they're like, oh, I'm just being my authentic self, but not really. You're actually using this as a kind of artifice or costume to signal something to others about you. So, like, it's not even any more authentic than somebody who wears a suit to signal that they're professional, you know?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah, because this whole thing was like, I'm breaking the rules.

[Bridget Todd]

I'm maverick.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Exactly, but you're not really breaking the rules. You are the whole thing now.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Well, he also had to make sure he had the thumb, the authority in some way. And, like, me like that, like, his whole speech about, I'm not paying attention to you, I'm giving you the minimal attention that I have to because I'm here. But to understand I don't want to because I think you're irrelevant. I think this is irrelevant as well as the way he dressed. This is not. This is all for show and I'm better than y'.

[Bridget Todd]

All.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Like, this is that continuation of having to prove himself beyond his, like, making sure that he's meeting his worth and meeting their worth, and he needs them to know where they stand because he's so effing insecure. Like, this level of understanding of who he is because he has to establish himself somehow, and this is the only way he can have power.

[Bridget Todd]

We still see it today in hearings when Zuckerberg is called before Senate or Congress for inquiries and hearings. I think that it is that exact personality dynamic where I'm better than you. I don't have to answer to you. I have seen him try to moderate that because that. I think that really is who he is. He really does think that he's better than everybody, smarter than everybody. Should not have to. Why should he have to answer to anybody? Why should he have to answer about people that he's harmed? Women and girls that he's harmed? Why should he? Why. Who are you to be asking him questions? You know, you're just a senator, but. And I've. I've seen in hearings, in my opinion, him trying to moderate what I think is his natural inclination toward disdain for others.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

On a side note, there was a random moment of, like, that popped up. As an Asian person. I'm not gonna. As an Asian woman specifically, I wouldn't have very much noticed this, because in my mind, I thought Brenda Song, who plays one of the girlfriends in the character, Eduardo's girlfriend, I thought she was actually the wife that Mark Zuckerberg eventually marries.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, Shawn Zuckerberg.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes. I had no idea who she was because I'd never seen the movie. I just knew there was an Asian woman in. Have really thought this was going to be the revelation of, like, his wife. But then the conversation came in about how Asian girls who can't dance like nerdy Jewish boys, they are, like, attracted to each other. And then all these things that I was like, oh, what is happening? And then knowing later on that Mark Zuckerberg does have an Asian wife, that I'm like, there's something odd in this conversation. I don't know what Sorkin was thinking and putting this specific scene and then predicting, like, he'd get married to this Asian woman, who, by the way, is a philanthropist as well as a pediatrician. Like, what the hell?

[Bridget Todd]

I'm so glad you brought this up. And I. I feel like the movie is trying to say something or do something as it pertains to Asian women. What do you, what, what are your thoughts on how Asian women are portrayed in this film?

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Well, obviously between her being super crazy, as he notes, and she sets fire to his bed, essentially, and then also that they are so fetishized by a whole. Which I had gotten that line from a Jewish dude one time that said that to me. I kind of was like, what? I've never heard this. Is this your pickup line for me? Because I gotta go. Like, it was a weird moment, but now that I've seen this movie, I'm like, oh, maybe that's where he got it from. I don't know. But all of that to say is like, it felt very much like in this realm of worlds, like there is. First of all, women are not respected in any way. They are secondary characters. Obviously the secretary, we saw that with the girlfriends, with a groupie, as they called them, and then with a girlfriend, like all of these things. And even Anne from Parks and Rec was her real name.

[Bridget Todd]

Rashida Jones.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Thank you. I know Rashida Jones. Even her placement, even though she was a little more significant. They were all there, secondary characters to fulfill this narrative that the men were all in playing for power. That it was interesting, of course, like there would be a fetishized person, but it immediately had to be an Asian woman. And I felt like it was targeted, but I can't really grasp it, but I obviously very much noted it.

[Bridget Todd]

It. That was my sense too. Honestly, as much as I love this movie, I think the movie. I think the movies hand the. The thread of race only really, like, like, other than Asian women, like, race is. I mean, race is present because they're all like upper crust white folks. And it's certainly very exclusive to non whites. But the only real way that race is handled is through these Asian women. And I think it was a little clunky. Like, I think, I think that like, they're going for something and I don't think it was fully explored. So it just comes off as like, what are they trying to say here?

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Right? Like, it really was like that very throwaway line, the very throwaway characters, that it was just kind of like, what is, what is. Is this supposed to be a joke in this movie at the expense of these women?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Well, I. Yeah. And I. I wasn't. I didn't know that about Mark Zuckerberg. I actually was going to ask about his current relationship status to bring up a Facebook term. I didn't know. It is interesting to me that that was the thing that when he heard Dustin was the one who asked, you know, do you know if this girl is single? That's when Mark had the idea of, like, oh, we'll add relationship status, and that's when it's done.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Because. Yeah, it is. I mean, that is a big part of college life. But just to go back to that whole. This was rooted in misogyny.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

But it's also interesting because they also hit on the point that they became descriptors. The have Facebook me. Facebook me. Like, I'll friend you. Like, they were so excited by that. And then also that whole, like, why is your status single? And that was such a big deal at the beginning of Facebook. Like. Like to say you're Facebook official. Yes, it's relevant. It was relevant.

[Bridget Todd]

Did you ever do the thing where you became like, I like, in a relationship with a friend of yours or a buddy of yours for some reason?

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

No, but it's complicated. 1. I wanted to see what it would do.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

You did. It's complicated.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

There was no one there. It's complicated. I'm single.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Hey, that's fair.

[Bridget Todd]

It's actually not complicated.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

But. Yeah, but. Yeah. No. Did you do this? Bridget? Did you do it?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, yeah. This was like. I don't know why. It was like, you would. You would become in. In, like, a complicated. You could. Because, like, you could also tag a friend or be like, Bridget, Todd is in an. In a complicated relationship with such and such. Like, I would do that with my friends for some reason. I don't know why. Don't even ask me why. But, like, to your point, I do think the movie. One of the undercurrents of the film is how just how much of. Just like you were saying, Sam, the. How we understand and talk about digital relationships and behaviors was started by Facebook. Like, this is a small. A small scene, but it really stuck with me. While all the lawsuit stuff is going on, Zuckerberg is still in school at Harvard, and he's trying to prep for an art history final. And he does it by starting a Facebook group as an A with an alias, posting pictures and then asking people to comment. And he's like, oh, yeah, I just pop in every now and then and leave an incendiary comment to stir the pot to keep the conversation going. And I feel like, that really mirrors our. Our current tech landscape where, you know, incendiary content gets better engagement than other types of content bots. And, like, conflict entrepreneurs are able to just like, manipulate people into giving engagement to these platforms and just, you know, putting money in people's pockets. I'm like, it's such a small thing. But that one little seed would go. Goes on to be a significant part of the experience of being online today in 2026, which is fascinating to me.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah. Also, side note, I don't know if your colleges were like this, but the one I went to were very clear that if you invented anything at the college while you were a student, they owned it. So.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Really?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes, absolutely. So people drop out.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

So that makes sense.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah, people would drop out, which never came up.

[Bridget Todd]

The only thing. I mean, the only thing that came. I mean, I invented some unique ways to smoke weed out of devices and some interesting water pipes. East Carolina University.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Oh, no. Oh, no.

[Bridget Todd]

Some interesting paraphernalia and other devices for debauchery were definitely invented. They've got the right. No.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Bridget, I'm curious just briefly, because I know you have worked with Facebook.

[Bridget Todd]

How.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

How is it watching this movie as somebody who's kind of worked with them.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, good. What a good question. I would say my. So, like, my work with platforms was, like, meeting with them and being like, your platform is harming women in XYZ kind of way. Here's a better way to do it. What do you say? Some platforms would be more receptive than others. I would say Facebook was actually. This was before Elon Musk bought Twitter. Now, Elon Musk or X is definitely the word would be the worst, but, like, back then, I would say Facebook was the most challenging because all of this stuff is really entrenched. Like, they would take the meeting. They would, like, listen to the presentation and all of that, but, like, nothing really ever got done. And I guess it was.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

It. It's.

[Bridget Todd]

It's. I don't want to sound too cynical, but I do believe that, like, Facebook is a platform where they're just not. They're just. They just don't think about this kind of stuff the same way that you or I might. I don't think that they, you know, like, when you take. Taking it back to the way the company was founded and the origin, it's no surprise that they are so hostile to even the implication that their platform should be a place that is not hostile to women. Like, I think that, like, it's just not. It's just. It's just not terribly surprising to take it back to the origin and be like, oh, yeah, well, this is like their bread and butter. Why would they want to make a space that's not hostile to women?

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Right, right. Well, we could go on and on. I know. Are there any final thoughts you wanted to share, Bridget?

[Bridget Todd]

Well, I'm really excited about the sequel.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yes.

[Bridget Todd]

The Social Reckoning I did read, so I've been calling it a sequel, but I read that Sorkin is described that as a companion piece rather than a sequel. And it's. I do feel like the Social Network is the seed that was planted. We're like, hey, these guys are all massive misogynists. And I'm hopeful that the Social Reckoning will be like the flower that blooms, because it's really. According to Sorkin, it really focuses on Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen, who we know revealed so much about how Facebook knowingly harmed women and girls Based on the 2021 Wall Street Journal expose, the Facebook file. And so if the Social Network is like, Zuckerberg really was a misogynist who. His personal animus and difficulties with women led him to build Facebook. I am hoping that this movie is like, and here's what that meant. Here. Here's what that means for your daughter. Here's what that means for your. The women and girls in your life today.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Yeah. When I. When you told us that that was the topic they were going to be handling, I was like, oof, that's gonna be intense. You're definitely gonna have to come back for that, Bridget, when we have our reactions.

[Host 2 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Mm.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, yes. Go ahead and put it on your calendars. The movie's coming out in October, so I will be back.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

Okay, perfect. Perfect. Well, thank you so much. This was so much fun. I can't wait to continue this series. We'll come up with a good name for it. But, you know, movies about tech. It's gonna be fun because this also was kind of the start of, like, a lot of the shows and movies around Silicon Valley. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot for us we could tackle. But in the meantime, Bridget, where can the good listeners find you?

[Bridget Todd]

You can listen to my podcast. There are no girls on the Internet. You can find me on Instagram bridgetmarieandc and on Threads, also @bridgetmarieandc. Thanks, Zuckerberg.

[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

It is always so strange, isn't it, when we do these episodes and then at the end we're like, you can find me on there. Yeah, that's. Oh, thank you. So much. Bridget listeners, if you would like to contact us, you can. You can email us@hellostuff1nevertold you.com. you can find us on Bluesky, momsthpodcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff1never told you'd. We're also on YouTube, we have some merchandise at. Com bureau and we have a book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as always for the help this week from Casey and to our executive producer Maya. And thanks to you for listening. Stuff Never Told you'd is production by Heart Radio. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, you can check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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[Bridget Todd]

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[Host 1 (possibly Samantha or Annie)]

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