Sydney Sweeney's jeans; Jet2 Holiday meme hijacked by DHS; Tea app hack lawsuit; Substack promotes Nazis – NEWS ROUNDUP w/ Abbie Richards

Summary

There Are No Girls on the Internet
Episode: Sydney Sweeney's jeans; Jet2 Holiday meme hijacked by DHS; Tea app hack lawsuit; Substack promotes Nazis – NEWS ROUNDUP w/ Abbie Richards
Release Date: August 1, 2025
Host: Bridget Todd
Guest: Abbie Richards

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Episode Overview

This week’s episode is a rapid-fire news roundup, co-hosted by Bridget Todd and misinformation researcher/content creator Abbie Richards. The pair unpack key stories at the intersection of technology, politics, and identity, including the co-option of viral memes by government agencies, data privacy disasters, content moderation failings at top tech platforms, and how internet discourse often distracts from deeper issues. The tone is sardonic, critical, and deeply invested in the wellbeing and safety of marginalized communities.

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Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Chris Smalls, Gaza Activism & Intersectionality in Tech

• [03:14 – 07:48]
  • Chris Smalls, Amazon Labor Union co-founder, was recently detained and reportedly targeted by the IDF as part of the Freedom Flotilla coalition bringing aid to Gaza.
  • Discussion explores the intersection of labor, race, tech, and international justice, tying Chris’s activism in the U.S. with global human rights struggles.
  • Bridget Todd: “The same kind of forces of injustice that are at play with big tech companies like Amazon are certainly at play here.” (06:22)
  • Abbie Richards: “There’s like the technological colonialism of it all, but there’s also… the social media activism of it – like how he even got there was from a place of like knowing how to utilize social media to get eyes on Gaza.” (06:42)

2. TikTok Footnotes/Community Notes Feature

• [07:56 – 16:29]
  • TikTok is testing a new feature for select creators to add context/footnotes to videos, aiming to tackle misinformation without ditching in-house fact-checkers (unlike X/Twitter and Meta).
  • The hosts praise the approach for adding context but critique “community notes” as a sole solution—it’s slow, partisan, and not effective at scale.
  • Abbie Richards: “I am a TikTok enjoyer. There are things I really enjoy about that app, but also there are things that infuriate me… And I think we can hold space for two things to exist at the same time.” (08:53)
  • Notable case: the viral “bunnies on trampolines” TikTok, which millions believed due to AI-manipulated footage.

3. White House Hijacking Jet2 Holiday Meme for Deportation Propaganda

• [19:09 – 28:44]
  • The Trump administration used the popular “Jet2 Holiday” meme to post a video celebrating deportations—complete with the upbeat tune, “Hold My Hand,” horrifying both the artists and the public.
  • Bridget Todd: “You have to be a depraved sicko to want to see this kind of thing… It reminds me of our country’s history with things like lynchings – big public displays… made out of the suffering of others.” (21:00)
  • Abbie Richards: “The cruelty is the point… I think it’s also about desensitization. The more your eye sockets are assaulted with abhorrent content, you just get used to it.” (21:42)
  • Both hosts critique the government’s misunderstanding of meme culture (“they used the meme wrong”) and the insidiousness of stealing joyful symbols and perverting them for state cruelty.

4. Substack Again Promotes Nazi Content

• [31:06 – 39:27]
  • Despite promises to remove Nazi content, Substack’s push notifications recently promoted a self-identified Nazi publication featuring a swastika.
  • Critics note Substack’s tepid apology lacks transparency and accountability.
  • Extremists view Substack as “a legitimizing tool for sharing content,” benefiting from the proximity to reputable journalists.
  • Bridget Todd: “It’s not just that Substack is hosting this kind of content… It’s also that the people who make this content rightly understand that being on Substack legitimizes whatever it is I have to say.” (35:10)
  • Dilemma for legitimate creators: migrate now or later “in shame,” at the cost of audience and income, due to Substack’s failure to act on hate.

5. The Dystopian State of TikTok and Internet Discourse

• [39:41 – 48:16]
  • Algorithmic manipulation, sponsored content, and performative discourse are leaving platforms feeling “dystopian.”
  • Abbie Richards: “I would lose half a million followers [if TikTok were banned], which is brutal, but on the other hand, my TikTok reach right now is terrible… I barely can reach a tenth of those followers.” (39:41)
  • Tangents on viral advertising, manufactured controversies (Sydney Sweeney/American Eagle jeans), and how algorithms commodify all engagement—even controversy.
  • Quote from Charlie Warzel, read aloud by Abbie: “The only thing that matters is that the machine keeps running, the wheel keeps turning, leaving everybody feeling like they’ve won and lost at the same time.” (46:01)

6. LinkedIn Weakens Protections for Marginalized Groups

• [53:08 – 59:52]
  • LinkedIn has quietly removed explicit protections for trans and non-white users from their English hate speech policies, part of a growing platform trend.
  • Bridget traces this rollback to Elon Musk’s earlier example at Twitter (removing anti-deadnaming policies), and how industry “group think” enables such changes.
  • Abbie Richards: “There’s group think… they don’t want to moderate. The less moderation, the more cost effective it is for them… I don’t understand why you would just not care if your platform becomes a toxic wasteland.” (55:03)

7. The T App Data Breach & Lawsuit

• [59:39 – 69:14]
  • Touted as a “safe” whisper network for women to privately flag men who are dangerous or abusive, the T app had atrocious security.
  • Data (driver’s licenses, selfies, DMs) was left publicly accessible—not even “hacked”—and quickly leaked to 4chan.
  • Lawsuits allege negligence and breach of contract, with real safety risks for survivors who used the app for protection.
  • Bridget Todd: “You can’t even really call it a hack. That’s crazy. It was the level to which… Imagine if your doctor told you your private health information was private, but actually they stored it in an open crate in the alley behind the clinic.” (61:34)
  • Broader conversation about the perils of digital “whisper networks,” the fragility of online privacy, and what happens when platforms fail those they claim to protect.

8. Age Verification and the Future of Online Privacy

• [69:14 – 75:43]
  • The T App hack underscores the growing danger of platforms requiring sensitive ID data for age-gating or verification, with Spotify and YouTube both now adopting (often unreliable) AI systems and government ID checks to restrict underage access.
  • Hosts are skeptical of genuine safety motivation, linking these shifts to misplaced anxiety about porn and an exploitative, anti-child culture.
  • Abbie Richards: “Truly the thing that drives all of this is porn… We’re so much more interested, like, in being uncomfortable, so we shut [kids’ access] down… and just be like: no, no, nothing sexual, but also the second you turn 18, you can be in that porn.” (72:37, 75:50)

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Notable Quotes

• “You have to be a depraved sicko to want to see this kind of thing…It reminds me of our country’s history with things like lynchings, right? Like big public displays… made out of the suffering of others.”
  – Bridget Todd (21:00)

• “I am a TikTok enjoyer … and also I have been lied to prolifically. So yeah, I think that the Community Notes function … I’m actually pretty in favor of it as long as it’s not also replacing other fact checking.”
  – Abbie Richards (08:53)

• “It’s not just that Substack is hosting this kind of content… it’s also that the people who make this kind of content rightly understand that me being on Substack next to all of these important creators legitimizes whatever it is, I have to say.”
  – Bridget Todd (35:10)

• “What we’re consuming isn’t discourse – it’s algorithmic grist for the mills that power the platforms we’ve uploaded our conversations onto. The grist is made of all our very real political and cultural anxieties, ground down until they start to feel meaningless.”
  – (Reading) Charlie Warzel, via Abbie Richards (46:01)

• “At a certain point, people might have to decide: I don’t want to be on a platform like this. And won’t it be embarrassing to have to do that in shame after you’ve been like, ‘Oh, they’re gonna fix the problem’?”
  – Bridget Todd (36:09)

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Memorable Moments

• The viral “bunnies on trampolines” TikTok
  Bridget and Abbie both fell for it, noting how emotional desire can override our skepticism, especially with AI-manipulated video plus the power of context notes.
  (10:10–11:56)

• Abbie’s anecdote about being paid to post negative content about JoJo Siwa
  “The moment that broke me was one time I had an influencer tell me they were paid by JoJo Siwa’s team to talk about her negatively.” (43:42)

• Breakdown of the Sydney Sweeney/American Eagle ad ‘discourse’ Exhaustion with the shallowness of viral controversies that distract from real problems:
  “It feels like when you eat a bunch of junk food… you didn’t get any nourishment… the discourse is not nourishing me.” – Bridget Todd (48:16)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Chris Smalls, Gaza Activism – 03:14–07:48
• TikTok Footnotes/Community Notes – 07:56–16:29
• Jet2 Holiday Meme & Deportation Propaganda – 19:09–28:44
• Substack Nazi Content Scandal – 31:06–39:27
• Dystopian TikTok/Internet Discourse – 39:41–48:16
• LinkedIn Removes Protections – 53:08–59:52
• T App Data Breach & Lawsuits – 59:39–69:14
• Age Verification & Privacy – 69:14–75:43
• Sign-offs/Plugs – 76:00–77:43

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Final Thoughts

The episode is a whirlwind survey of how technology, big platforms, and online culture intersect with deeply human needs for safety, equity, and meaning. Bridget and Abbie’s rapport, insider knowledge, and refusal to let go of structural critiques make this a valuable, thought-provoking listen for anyone grappling with today’s digital dilemmas.

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Guests:
Abbie Richards – TikTok misinformation researcher and analyst (@Topology, Media Matters)
Bridget Todd – Host, writer, and digital activist

Listen for:
Smart, critical analysis, dark humor, and deep concern for digital rights—especially for marginalized voices shaping the internet.

“It’s about real anxieties, real issues, but then we’re not actually having a substantive conversation – it just feels like a hamster wheel.” – Bridget Todd (48:16)

Transcript

[Bridget Todd]

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[Bridget Todd]

There Are no Girls on the Internet is a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this is There Are no Girls There Are no Girls.

[Abby Richards]

On the Internet.

[Bridget Todd]

Welcome to another episode of There Are no Girls on the Internet where we explore the intersection of social media, technology and identity. This is another iteration of our weekly news roundup where we talk through the stories that you might have seen on the Internet so you don't have to. I am so thrilled to welcome back to the show Friend of the show. I think maybe our longest running guest. You know how Steve Martin was the most he he hosted SNL the most? I think you're the Steve Martin of There are no girls on the Internet.

[Abby Richards]

Oh, my God. What a claim to fame. It's an honor and a privilege.

[Bridget Todd]

We are so thrilled to be joined by Abby Richards, prolific TikTok user, misinformation expert, media matters analyst. How do you describe yourself these days? You're a woman who wears many hats.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, I think I describe myself as a woman who wears many hats. I'm still going with, like, misinformation researcher and content creator as like, blanket, you know, just covers all the bases.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, there's a lot more to Abby. She's. She has multitudes. Abby. The last time that we saw each other, I think, was in Ireland. Question mark.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, it was in Dublin.

[Bridget Todd]

Dublin, that's right. We were there with Mozilla. And one of the folks that you and I were lucky enough to spend some time with and really get to know when we were in Ireland was Chris Smalls. We've talked about Chris Smalls on the show before. He is one of my personal heroes. You might know him best as one of the main leaders in the fight to unionize Amazon workers. He was the co founder and the former president of the Amazon Labor Union, which was the very first ever unionized Amazon worker coalition recognized by the National Labor Relations Board. When we first got on, we were talking about the fact that Chris was part of this Freedom Flotilla Coalition, which is a grassroots international collective that has really been trying to give aid to folks in Gaza. They were intercepted by the idf. They boarded their. Their vessel. And, you know, I'm sure that nobody was having a great time once that happened, but all the reporting I saw was that Chris was being uniquely targeted. And I have to imagine that has something to do with him being, I think, the only black man as part of that coalition.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, he was the only black activist on board. And he was reported reportedly, like, kicked in the head and like, had, like, they were like, beating at his, like, knees and legs. It was like seven uniformed, like, people in uniforms that were assaulting him. And reportedly, then when his lawyers went to go, like, meet with him, they had like six, like, special police guards on him. And then his conditions, like, when he was being held were terrible, I think, as with other activists. But it did seem like he was specifically, specifically targeted and it was really, really concerning for us who are like, his friends and want to make sure that he's safe.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. And it sounds like he might have actually been released quite recently. Do I have that right?

[Abby Richards]

Yeah. So he's in, as far as I'm aware, at the time of recording. I think he's like in Jordan, like boarding a plane or maybe even like on the plane right now and is expected to land tomorrow morning, which like, thank God. I'm really glad that he's, he's made it out. It sounds like conditions were terrible. They were saying that they were infested with bedbugs and overheated, really unclean, over packed. And also that the activists were on day five of a hunger strike. So the conditions were terrible and it sounded absolutely miserable. But he posted a video, I think, at an airport ready to leave and seemed in good spirits, which is nice.

[Bridget Todd]

And it's a good reminder of the. Something that we get into sometimes, which is that these issues, at least from my perspective, are very much all connected. The fact that Chris Smalls was the co founder of the first Amazon labor union, I don't think is unrelated to what's happening with Palestine. Like, I think these are all tech issues, they're all justice issues, they're all race issues. The fact that a black activist would be uniquely targeted by IDF when coming to provide aid and coming to advocate for the cause, I think all of these issues are connected in ways that sometimes can be difficult to see. But I think that what happened with Chris really does demonstrate that. And so I think a lot of folks might think like, oh, well, what does this issue have to do with technology? Why would you be talking about this in a tech podcast? I see it as very, as very linked. The fact that someone would see what's happening with Palestine and have, have the orientation of like, well, the same, the same kind of forces of injustice that are at play or with big tech companies like Amazon are certainly at play here.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, I mean, I think that it's connected on so many different angles. There's like the, you know, technological colonialism of it all, but there's also like the social media activism of it of like how he even got there was from a place of like knowing how to utilize social media to get eyes on Gaza because it's not like the Freedom Flotilla was bringing like tremendous amounts of aid in. I think like they're, they were very aware as with the first round of it too, that like they would likely get boarded and taken into custody and that the aid wasn't going to get through. But it's like a, it's activism in that performance of like letting themselves get arrested. Right. A lot of activism revolves around that and using social media to get that many eyes on it. Right. The types of activists that were on that, on that Boat. That is such a technological issue.

[Bridget Todd]

It.

[Abby Richards]

Of course it is. And those things are so connected and intersecting and I think that they're really interesting and that we have to, like, account for that in, you know, 21st century resistance efforts.

[Bridget Todd]

Absolutely. Well, Chris, if you are listening, our hearts are with you. We're thinking about you. We love you.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah. Good vibes. So proud.

[Bridget Todd]

Okay, so I want to talk about something that I know you probably have lots of thoughts about, and that is TikTok adding footnotes. Did you see this, this new kind of like, program they're rolling out that'll let. Let a SELECT group of TikTokers add context and background information to some videos on the app?

[Abby Richards]

I saw, yeah, I saw, I saw the article, like saying that they were planning to. To unroll it. I would like to be in that first group. Please let me in.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes, you would be. I mean, like you, I can't think of somebody who uses the platform in a better way to call out some of the misinformation that is there. Like, I. There's nobody really doing it the way that you're doing it. And what I love about your work is how you're able to, like, you use the platform. You're a prolific user of the platform, but you also critique the way that misinformation is able to spread on that platform. And so it's not like you're someone who is only rah rah. This platform that I've built up can do no wrong. You just come at it from such a, such a place of transparency.

[Abby Richards]

Oh my God, thank you. I mean, like, I am, I am a TikTok enjoyer. There are things I really enjoy about that app, but also there are things that like, infuriate me and I think that we can hold. Hold space for two things to exist at the same time, where I have found great, great joy there. And also I have been lied to prolifically. So yeah, I think that the Community Notes function that they're going to try and add, I'm actually pretty in favor of it as long as it's not also replacing other fact checking, which it sounds like it isn't.

[Bridget Todd]

So it's similar to the way that Community Notes functions on x. But notably TikTok has says they are not going to abandon in house back checking X and Meta. When they rolled out Community Notes, that was all they were going to be doing. And it really, it really did seem like a way to offload that burden from paid staff at these companies and just put the burden on Users. Right. And so I think that you're exactly right. The fact that TikTok is saying, hey, this is not going to be replacing our in house fact checkers, we're going to continue to have that too, I think is really a key difference. And why to me, I'm not like opposed to this.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, no, I'm not opposed. And I also think that it's kind of community oriented, which I like. I like that there can be like discussions around the accuracy of something. Like, I'm very interested in that. Again, it doesn't replace like journalists and fact checkers. So as long as like, it's just like an added thing of like, I think this is AI. I can recognize what. This bunny disappeared on the trampoline.

[Bridget Todd]

The bunny. So it got me, I sent that to somebody and then I had to send a follow up when I saw the piece in 404 Media and oh.

[Abby Richards]

That got a lot of people. That got millions of people.

[Bridget Todd]

So the piece. So the piece in 404 Media breaking down the, this viral TikTok that purported to be backyard ring camera security footage of a bunch of bunnies adorably jumping on a trampoline.

[Abby Richards]

They were so cute.

[Bridget Todd]

It was so cute. And the reason why it got me was because ring camera footage is always blurry. So you're not, I think that you're not trained to think, to be thinking, is this real or is this not? You're just expecting to see some low res video and I think that's easier to like slip AI into that.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, I think the blurry footage also with there's been a few of those videos of like animals jumping on a trampoline at night. And it's always at night because if it were during the day, I think it would be a lot more obvious. But that like nighttime ring, like ring footage, it's just easier for it to look a little shitty.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes. And when it comes to mis and disinformation and the way that it spreads in video form, it usually adheres to some sort of worldview that you hold. And I have the worldview that when night falls, animals are doing all kinds of cute things and wouldn't it be great if we could see them? And so I was like, oh, I want to believe. I want to believe in a world that bunnies are jumping on a trampoline at night in a coordinated way when we're all asleep.

[Abby Richards]

That's the ideology that I want to have. My core belief is that when I go to sleep, bunnies get together to jump on trampolines.

[Bridget Todd]

Bunny. Nighttime mischief. Yeah, yeah. So this is something interesting about community notes. So I like the fact that TikTok is not replacing their in house fact checking with community notes. But when platforms like X are using community community notes only as fact checking, the studies on whether or not that, and that alone is an effective way of handling incorrect information is a little bit mixed. There's a really good analysis in Tech Policy Press written by Nadia Jude, a PhD researcher within the Digital Media Research center at the Queensland University of Technology, and Dr. Adriana Matromos Fernandez, Associate professor at the University College at Dublin. They found that studies on the effectiveness of community notes are missed. For example, there is a debate about whether or not the tool reduces or heightens engagement with misleading posts. Notes are also slow and the public sees less than 12.5% of all submitted notes. Partisanship often motivates volunteers to participate, and the system struggles to fact check divisive issues from influential accounts and hard to verify claims that include, for example, sarcasm. These challenges call into question whether or not prioritizing consensus in moderation systems designed to address mis and disinformation is a desirable or worthy aim. And I found that to be so interesting because, you know, on a platform like X, where that really is the only thing that anybody is doing to prevent the spread of false information, you really see how it might not be something that's genuinely effective at keeping incorrect information off the platform. On TikTok, I like the idea of it being something where context is added or, you know, background information or sort of like, let me put this in context for you as opposed to being like, yes it is true or no it is not true. I almost wonder if that false binary of true versus not true, but it's like it's just not working on platforms like X when that's the only thing they have.

[Abby Richards]

I think there's so many other contexts on TikTok where context would be so helpful. I mean the amount of times that like I'm fully lost trying to find the original video that someone is like mocking and has like done a play on or like I'm completely lost and don't have context on, like what this like discourse I've stumbled into is or, or what account posted about it first and like what their username is like, it's, it's so confusing and like just given the nature of TikTok, you get dropped into like these conversations on your for you page and you're like, I don't know what's happening. So I Think like, yeah, focusing on context and adding that is. I think that that can actually be like, a beautiful thing for community. I'm interested to see how it plays out. I certainly don't think it can replace fact checking at all, ever. And I don't think it can replace true, like, content moderation. And I certainly worry about companies who just like, don't want to deal with content moderation, so they just like, kind of give that burden to users and they're like, you figure out what's real.

[Bridget Todd]

Exactly. Yeah. None of this would be a replacement for expert fact checkers who know what they're doing, who are trained to address things, and particularly like culturally informed content moderators. Because so much of the content moderation, like, it's just if people aren't culturally informed, it can be very difficult to know what people are talking about. And you're so right about TikTok. It's a platform that it's really difficult to follow Drama on Tick Tock because you're like, I'm out of the loop. Like, who said what? What started it?

[Abby Richards]

I can never keep up. And then like, somebody will just post a username that's like, scrambled, and then you get, like, linked to, like, that person's old videos and you're going through. And it's just. It's a lot of. It's a lot of investigative work to try and understand drama. You've gotten, like, dropped into the middle of due to your algorithm. And there's like a lot of the times where I look at something and I, like, have to make a decision of just like, I have to let this go. I don't.

[Bridget Todd]

Like, I can't invest any more of my time to try to figure out who started this random dispute.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, I understand that the Wordle community is having discourse and that they're fighting, but, like, I need to not put any energy into understanding why.

[Bridget Todd]

Ooh. I actually would be interested to know what the Wordle community is up in arms about.

[Abby Richards]

They were. That was a while ago, but, like, there was some beef in the Wordle community. I honestly felt like it was kind of manufactured for attention, but that was just me.

[Bridget Todd]

Let's take a quick break. For 100 days, I'm going to cross the seven continents because the answers to everything important are at the edge edges of our world. Pole to Pole with Will Smith. Series premiere tonight at 9 on National Geographic Stream, on Disney and Hulu.

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[Bridget Todd]

And we're back. Okay, well, speaking of Tick tock, I have this is like not something. I mean, I'll just say, like I try very hard to not focus on what the Trump administration is doing unless I absolutely have to. And so I blocked all of their social accounts because they're all abhorrent. But when I peeked back in, I was surprised to see that, you know the Tick Tock viral baby hold my hand. Nothing beats a jet to holiday. So Everybody was, was on that meme. They were using that song from the Jet to Holiday commercial to illustrate, you know, things vacations gone awry or things. Things bad happening while they're on trips. Well, the White House got in on that. They posted on X videos of handcuffed, allegedly undocumented people being escorted by blurred out ICE enforcement officials onto a global X flight, which is an airline provider used by ICE with that viral TikTok sound. And the post is captioned, when X books you a one way jet to holiday to deportation, nothing beats it. Yeah, I just think we. I know there's a lot of other horrible stuff in the world, but I do think that we should be talking about how abhorrent the official comms channels out of this administration have gotten. I remember earlier they were doing the studio Ghibli, like AI generated cartoons. They made one of a woman being deported, like a cartoon version of her crying. And I just feel like they are putting out stuff even for their base. You have to be a depraved sicko to want to see this kind of thing. You have to be like a depraved person to get enjoyment out of this. And it really reminds me of like our country's history with things like lynchings, right? Like big public displays, big spectacles being made out of the suffering of others. And I just think like in the scheme of things, that might not be that big of a deal, but the way that the administration uses their official comms channels to signal to the most depraved members of their base just really, I mean, it cannot be overstated.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, no, that meme was like truly sickening. Like I felt that in my stomach. I mean, same with like the. They had like the deportation ASMR a while back too, and it very much is an instance of like the cruelty is the point.

[Bridget Todd]

Right.

[Abby Richards]

Like they're trying to be as cruel as possible because they know that it creates media attention. They know it works people up. So it's also just about, I think, triggering the left to some extent, doing things that they know will make the left upset. And I think it's also partially about desensitization. So like, the more your like eye sockets are assaulted with abhorrent content like that, you just get used to it, you get desensitized to it. And I think it encourages people to like emotionally shut down. It's absolutely bonkers propaganda, but it does seem to be working for them and getting the attention that they crave.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, I think you're so right about the purpose of this kind of content, because I do think it's about you. You could. I mean, this is why I have these channels all blocked, because you could only see this stuff so much. You can only engage with this so much until you're either. It just. Either you're. You become desensitized to it, as you said, or you. You. You simply can't go about your day. I mean, Elaine Welteroth had this great TikTok where she was like, the experience of scrolling social media right now is horrible tragedy, horrible despicable comms coming out of an official White House channel and then somebody's makeup tutorial. And I don't. I firmly believe that this is not an environment that we were as humans meant to be in. This is very. It's like, oh, no, we should not have. This should not be normal.

[Abby Richards]

No, our brains were not meant to be assaulted with this much, like, horrendous content and then simultaneously sold as many things to consume as we possibly can. And that's what going on social media, like, really feels like right now is just like, horrible thing, horrible thing, Buy this horrible thing, horrible thing, Purchase this. And, like, it's really bleak. And I think that there are people who, like, see that and recognize that, like, that's the emotional experience that, like, a lot of us are having and are happy to add onto it and try to, like, emotionally wear us out and wear us down.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. And I think the fact that they're picking these things that are symbols of joy might. Might be too strong. But the Studio Ghibli cartoons, like, those cartoons are all about celebrating nature and love and innocence. Like, they're very kind of pure. And, you know, they're, They're. They're. For me, they are a symbol of joy. So then seeing that perverted and seeing that taken to illustrate cruelty, I think is a. As a. Is a definite, like, intentional choice.

[Abby Richards]

Can we talk about how they did the Jet2 holiday meme wrong, though? Like, that bothers me because the whole point of the Jet2 holidays, that it's supposed to be something going terribly wrong.

[Bridget Todd]

And. Yeah. And they are like, oh, we love this.

[Abby Richards]

Look at us deporting so well. And it's almost like they almost kind of got themselves with the fact that they don't know how the meme works and they just used a trending audio. But, like, the whole point of that meme is that, like, fun, upbeat audio with, like, something going just, like, demonstrably, like, wrong.

[Bridget Todd]

Like, yes, they've kind of misunderstood them. Like, what Makes it a meme. What makes it funny.

[Abby Richards]

And.

[Bridget Todd]

And in a roundabout way, they're kind of saying these deportations are something that have gone wrong. But I know that's not what they want to say.

[Abby Richards]

No, that's not what they want. They. What they want is just, like, cruelty and supremacy and to, like, trigger. I think they want to, like, trigger the left and then on the right, they want to trigger feelings of superiority and, like, give people that kind of, like, emotional hit of other people's cruelty.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. The person who sings the song is Jess Gline. The song is called Hold My Hand, and she actually posted a statement on Instagram basically saying that she was horrified to see the White House using her song in this way, even though she was happy to see it take off on TikTok initially. She wrote this post, honestly makes me sick. My music is about love, unity, and spreading positivity, never about division or hate. And then the voiceover artist, the one that sang nothing beats a JetBlue holiday, said, what can be done about the White House using Jet2 sound and my voiceover to promote their nasty agenda? And I do feel like it. I mean it. Like, I can't imagine what it must feel like to have the White House take your work and your words and use it to promote something in this way. Especially after kind of celebrating that. That this Jet2 holiday ad that you made. People did find joy in sort of recontextualizing it. Like, I don't know. It's like the White House. Like, we can. We cannot have any small moment of joy or. Or wonder without them being like, how can we pervert this but make it awful?

[Abby Richards]

It's so annoying. Like, let us have fun. Let us, like, enjoy things. But no, like, let's, like, they just come in here and. And completely ruin the vibes. And it's not like this is, like, the first artist that this has happened to. It was like, wasn't Olivia Rodrigo had a song. Oh, my God. Which song was it? Was it Deja Vu that. Yeah. The Trump administration, like, used as an audio, and she was just like, take this down. Or, like, like, never use my audio again. Like, don't use my sound. And they deleted her comment. So then she just, like, removed the sound off of Tik Tok, I think.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. And I mean, it also says a lot that they have to steal from artists or. And. And use their voices and their work without permission, because who would want to be associated with this? Like, they. They're not able to. Like, it's not like, I mean, part of me wonders, like, why not just work with the artists who voluntarily would. Would sign on for this kind of thing. It's telling that it's like, you don't want it to be Kid Rock doing the soundtrack. Somebody who probably would jump at that chance. No, it has to be somebody who doesn't want to be associated with you.

[Abby Richards]

Bridget, Bridget. You know, they don't have good artists on their side. You know the answer to this. They don't have good artists. They have to steal ours. They have to. They're not making, like, what the. Carrie Underwood's gonna produce a really top audio right now. Like, that's what they're working with.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my God. This is such a throwback. The Carrie Underwood thing, I found that to be. That was like something out of. Out of Veep where Carrie Underwood, for folks who don't know, this is a little bit of my personal Roman Empire, signed on to perform at the inauguration. Really shouldn't have. When she signed up, when she went to perform her. There was a problem with her stage and her performance ended up being really janky and she was panned and it just was one of those things where it's like, dang, aren't you. Don't you wish you would never got mixed up with these people? Like, what. What a bad choice.

[Abby Richards]

It's. Oh, my God. We always forget how incompetent they are too. They're incompetent and they don't have any good artists on their side. And that's sucks. And I do feel bad for them. I do.

[Bridget Todd]

Absolutely. Let's take a quick break. For 100 days. I'm going to cross the seven continents because the answers to everything important are out there at the edges of our world.

[Commercial Announcer]

I'm sorry.

[Bridget Todd]

Stepping into the unknown. Where are we going to see our planet?

[Abby Richards]

This is amazing as it's never been seen before.

[Bridget Todd]

From pole to Pole Pole to Pole with Will Smith. Series premiere tonight at 9 on National Geographic Stream on Disney and Hulu. Show me the way.

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[Abby Richards]

Why don't you just say you look.

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[Bridget Todd]

And we're back. Okay, so we have to talk about what is going on at Substack. I don't have a substack. I for the longest time was like, oh, I should get a substack. I should get a substack. And now I'm kind of glad I don't have one. We talked about this before. Back in 2024, Substack agreed to remove Nazi content after hundreds of writers, including Casey Newton, who runs this very prominent tech publication, Platformer, on Substack, they all signed an open letter threatening to quit the platform if the platform did not remove Nazi content. The Atlantic reported that prominent white supremacists, people like Richard Spencer, were using the platform to earn money. Spencer was likely at least making $9,000 a year and potentially more than that from his substack. And because Substack got a cut, they got 10%. Essentially, substack is profiting from white supremacists who are on their platform. So substack back in 2024 was like, okay, we will do something. And I guess the problem has not been solved because Taylor Lorenz reported that Substack sent a push notification promoting a Nazi publication on the platform to an unidentified number of their users. I don't use the term Nazi publication lightly. The blog literally included a swastika icon. So that's like pretty cut and dry. I feel pretty confident saying this is a Nazi publication.

[Abby Richards]

They were definitely, I think they Self identified as a National Socialist publication.

[Bridget Todd]

This is not, this is not something where I'm just throwing the word around. Like they would probably agree that that's how they would, they would self identify. Yeah. And so Substack apologized. They said, we discovered an error that caused some people to receive push notifications they never should have received. In some cases, these notifications were extremely offensive and disturbing. Yeah, I'll say. This was a serious error and we apologize for the distress it caused. We have taken the relevant system offline, diagnosed the issue, and are making changes to ensure it does not happen again. So I feel like for as bad as it is to send a push notification that includes a swastika telling people to check out this Nazi blog, that that statement to me is like, throw that in the garbage. It doesn't mean anything. Ars Technica spoke to Joshua Fisher Birch, a terrorism analyst at the nonprofit NGO Counter, the Counterextremism Project, who's been monitoring Substack and their role in helping far right movements spread propaganda online. He makes a very good point that what should be happening now is more transparency and then outlining exactly what happened and exactly what steps Substack is taking to prevent it from happening again. Just saying, oopsie, we sent you a swastika is really not good enough when you consider how big of a, of a, of a fuck up that is.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, no, that's like a really big fuck up and being like, oh, like that system has been diagnosed. What do you mean? Yes, what do you mean? Can you tell me more about what that system was? Like, how did that even get scooped up there? Like, I think when we say transparency, we don't mean like a two sentence statement from your company. We say, we mean like, like true accountability. Like, what went wrong here? And like, how can you explain it to us so that we understand and can have faith that like, you're taking actions and like, steps to make sure it doesn't go wrong again. But, like, that's. I don't feel like we're getting real transparency here.

[Bridget Todd]

No, absolutely not. And Fisher Birch, he made a really good point that all of these, like far right Nazi extremist types have gotten the impression that their content is far less likely to be removed. Removed from Substack. And they're not wrong. And importantly, they see Substack as, quote, a legitimizing tool for sharing content, specifically because the Substack brand, which is widely used by independent journalists and top influencers and cherished content creators, can help them convey the image of a thought leader. And so I thought that was such a important point. That it's not just that Substack is hosting this kind of content, which that is a problem. It's also that the people who make this kind of content rightly understand that me being on Substack next to all of these important influencers and content creators legitimizes whatever it is, I have to say. So it's not just that it's being taken down, it's that I'm hobnobbing with all these other important voices. What? Seems like my voice is important too.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, it like just, it lends them legitimacy.

[Bridget Todd]

Exactly.

[Abby Richards]

It's. Yeah. And hasn't Substack, like, talked about how they don't want to take that content down because they don't want to like overly send like censor that content and they believe that like they, it'll just go into the shadows? Like, am I right? That's like also part of their, like, that's just like we. I would so much rather that content be in the shadows than on Substack next to, you know, legitimate journalists, like actual high quality substacks. Like, it's okay for bad things to be in the shadows where we can't see them. Actually, that's where bad things like, should be and should stay. I'm okay with that.

[Bridget Todd]

And I think that's, that's, that's such a good point. And you know, it's one of those things where I do think that like so many prominent journalists who are doing their own thing and like have their own, you know, media outlets are on Substack and it goes back to that old adage about a Nazi bar. Right? Like, if you're hanging out at a Nazi bar, at what point are people going to start thinking that you're the Nazi? I think that if Substack doesn't do something, I think people who are, who are prominent on the platform who don't want to be associated with this kind of thing and don't like, don't want this thing to be out of the shadows. They want, they, they don't want it to be like next to their piece or something, I think they might be having to make some changes. Angry black lady Amani Gandhi, who is a journalist and a lawyer who I follow online, she wrote on Blue Sky. But basically it sounds like Substack is, is unsustainable and that people either have to move now or, or move in shame later. Those are really the only two options at this point. And I thought that was such a Good point of like, at a certain point people might have to decide, I don't want to be on a platform like this. And won't it be embarrassing to have to do that in shame after you've been like, oh, they're going to fix the problem.

[Abby Richards]

But also at the same time it puts like creators of that content in such a shitty position where like, they need that like hosting service and their audience uses it. And it's not like the audience is that good at following people off platform on different platforms. And so like if they're financially dependent on Substack and they've like gone independent and they like rely on it, then like it's a big ask to be like, can you not use this platform that you rely on and that you can't really transfer your audience to anywhere else because you don't like other content that's being hosted here. Like, it's really hard. It puts them in a really. Yeah, between a rock and a hard place.

[Bridget Todd]

That's a really good point. They're really doing a disservice to the people that use their platform that they have to be thinking about this at all. And again, a lot of people who are on substack, like the state of journalism and media, everyone I know has either been laid off or wakes up being worried about being laid off. And the people who are laid off often use platforms like substack to do their own thing while they figure out what's next. And I think they, I think substack is putting a lot of people who are already oftentimes operating from a place of precarity, not off, not always, but often I think that they are putting this on them in a way that is, I don't think is acceptable.

[Abby Richards]

No, I mean that's what happens on every platform where like they refuse to engage in content moderation because like, arguably I do the same thing on Tik Tok where like I'm forced to be on TikTok, like to, to reach my audience who I can't transfer over anywhere else. And it's also on a platform that is like, you know, consumed with like misinformation and like a lot of, you know, like I just published about all like the racist AI generated content and I'm forced to like live there. And it's, it's not fair to me. I don't think it's fair. Uh, I mean, I think that the platform in general would be a lot better if it focused instead on like creators who made like original, high quality content. Um, but that's not where they want to invest all of their operations.

[Bridget Todd]

You know, the last time that you and I spoke on the podcast, we were talking about a potential TikTok ban in the United States. If TikTok was banned, what, like, what would that look like for your voice and your platform?

[Abby Richards]

I mean, on one hand, I would lose, like, you know, half a million followers, which is. Is, like, brutal. But on the other hand, my TikTok reach right now is terrible. Absolutely horrendous. Like, I. I barely can reach, like, a tenth of those followers. Like, I. I just have. I never have guaranteed access to the people who did choose to opt into my content and, like, routinely have them in the comments, being like, I haven't seen you on my for you page in years, or like, whatever. And I feel like on TikTok, especially right now, my content is just being flooded out with ads instead. I mean, the place is just becoming like a glorified Amazon. I got 11 sponsored posts in a row like, last month between, like, TikTok shop ads and, like, actual ads. I got 11 in a row. I screen recorded it 11 in a row. It was crazy. And, like, it's.

[Bridget Todd]

It's barely usable. I mean, I. I loved TikTok for a time. I stopped using it precisely because of the. Just the deluge of ads. And I don't mind ads that much. In my content, however, there was. There is something, particularly. The. The. The user generated TikTok shop ads alongside the regular ads. There's something about that that just feels dystopian, you know, that you've probably seen the thing on there where it'll be someone who says they're going through a horrible trauma, and it's like, can you just let this video play for 7 seconds or so that I can get.

[Abby Richards]

All the buttons so that I can pay my bills or whatever. Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

I'm very sympathetic to people who need to use platforms like TikTok to raise money to get themselves out of tough situations, but it just. It just makes me sad. It just. It just doesn't feel good to show up on a platform where this is feeling more and more like the norm and less and less like a. Like an unusual experience. You know what I'm saying?

[Abby Richards]

Yeah. It's almost like we now are not just consuming the ads, but we also produce ads for ourselves to consume alongside other content of people just being like, I need money so badly. And you have to sit there and be like, my attention is currency. I have to pay you in attention so that you can Pay rent. And it's just. It's so dystopian and it feels like it never ends. And it's. It's brutal because I remember a time where TikTok was fun and not flooded with ads and. And now I go on there and it just feels like I'm reminded of what, like a capitalist dystopia we live in.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my God. I was seeing this song on TikTok everywhere and I was like, oh, it's weird that this song I've never heard of by an artist I've never heard of and don't know at all is in all these TikToks at the same time. And it turned out that you probably know this. I learned this for the first time that TikTok had a program where you could get paid to use artists songs because they're trying to promote the songs. It was like, oh, if you get X views on this song, you might get a payout. And I realized, is nothing organic anymore? No. People like, like, if I like a song, I'll use that song on social media. But the idea that someone would be being paid to amplify a song just so that it becomes an earworm. Yeah, I guess it's just what you're saying, it's just so clearly an attention economy where they're just trying to get whatever value they can out of me. My eyeballs paying attention to something for a couple of seconds and it's like. Like they're not asking, did anybody actually like the song? Does anybody. Would anybody have actually organically used this song in their content? No, they were just trying to get a couple. A couple of cents. Okay.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah. No, it really. The moment that broke me was one time I had an influencer tell me that they were paid by JoJo Siwa's team to talk about her negatively.

[Bridget Todd]

I absolutely believe this because something's going on with JoJo Siwa and I never. It's always. There's always something going on with her and I absolutely believe that. I believe her. I believe that influencer.

[Abby Richards]

No, I mean, that influencer showed me the video. Like, I saw it and like, told me about, like, the money they took and that like, their team was very much just like, say whatever you've got to say, like anything. Anything you want to say. And yeah, I really do believe that, like, very little is. Is organic at these points. And just so much of it is just like discourse all the way down. And at the end of the day, it's just like meaningless distraction.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my gosh. I mean, I. I might even cut this. But when my producer was putting together the different stories that we might talk about, one of the potential things was the Sydney Sweeney controversy around the American Eagle jeans ad. That's like, oh, I have great jeans. And the only thing I have to say about that is that it just demonstrated to me how annoying discourse is on the Internet. Because it's just. It's just a very. It just became clear how easily our attention is captured and how easily we're all sort of played in a kind of way that, you know, I. I think. I think that company was like, oh, this is going to be a controversial ad that he gets people talking. I think that one of the executives from American Eagle posted on LinkedIn basically saying that, oh, Sydney Sweeney really wanted to, you know, make this something everybody was talking about. And I just. That just. It just. I'm just so sick of feeling like we are all so reactive and that our attention is just so easily gamified. And they're not wrong.

[Abby Richards]

Right?

[Bridget Todd]

Like, that's not incorrect. It's very effective.

[Abby Richards]

It's so effective. And it distracts us from actual real problems with surface level representations of those problems. Did you read Charlie Wurzel's piece in. I think it was the Atlantic.

[Bridget Todd]

I sure did.

[Abby Richards]

Cities Me. I literally copied and pasted his last book because I was like, if we talk about this, I need to read you this last paragraph. Because, like, it had some, like, stuff on discourse that. Can I just read it?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, my God. Hit us with it.

[Abby Richards]

Okay. Discourse suggests a process that feels productive, maybe even democratic. But there's nothing productive about the end result of our information environment. What we're consuming isn't discourse. It's algorithmic grist for the mills that power the platforms we've uploaded our conversations onto. The grist is made of all our very real political and cultural anxieties ground down until they start to feel meaningless. The only thing that matters is that the machine keeps running, the wheel keeps turning, leaving everybody feeling like they've won and lost at the same time.

[Bridget Todd]

That is exactly how it feels. That.

[Abby Richards]

Is that literally.

[Bridget Todd]

That, like, sums it up exactly.

[Abby Richards]

Literally, like, that's exactly it. And, like, it's just so mindless. And it's about these real things. Like, they are these very real political and cultural anxieties, and yet it's just a hamster wheel where it takes us nowhere at all.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. And, I mean, I checked back in on the discourse around the ad, and it was like, liberals turn on Sydney Sweeney because they hate Hot women. And it's like, who hates hot people? No, like, I just. It really.

[Abby Richards]

We love hot women. Yeah. I love talking about. I will speak for the left and be like, I love hot women. And they're like, they hate her boobs. And I'm like, no, I love her boobs.

[Bridget Todd]

And also, like, let's. I don't think we need to act like good looking women with big boobs are in a press class. You know what I mean? Like, they don't.

[Abby Richards]

They don't understand the plight. The plight of a hot blonde with big tits. Bridget. We don't know the struggle.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes. But, yeah, it's just. It just something about that particular story I found very exhausting. And I think that piece really sums it up. That it. It feels like a hamster wheel where we kind of get near like. Like you're right. That there are real anxieties, real political and social anxieties that they kind of represent, but then we're not actually having a substantive conversation. It just feels like when you eat a bunch of junk food, a bunch of McDonald's, and then you feel good for a minute, but then you're hungry again later because you didn't get any nourishment. I don't. I feel like the discourse is not nourishing me. It's only. It's like making me feel empty.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, it's.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah.

[Abby Richards]

It reminds me of the discourse around Sabrina Carpenter's album. It was exact same thing of just like, this is so meaningless and it truly doesn't matter. And it's not really, like, representative of all of feminism or like all of all women. And like, we project so much meaning onto things, and I think it represents, like, our feelings of, like, lack of control. And it just. Oh, my God, that discourse drove me absolutely insane. They were like, she's setting the feminist movement back. Or like, you know, she's like a feminist icon and it's just like. I think she's just horny. Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

Have you ever seen the movie this is Spinal Tap?

[Abby Richards]

No.

[Bridget Todd]

So it's. It's such a classic. I'm like, outing myself as a big nerd here. But it's a satirical movie about a rock band and. And it's like a mockumentary. And they put out an album cover where it's a woman sniffing a glove.

[Abby Richards]

You caught a greased naked woman on all fours with a dog collar around her neck and a leash and a man's arm extended out up to here.

[Commercial Announcer]

Holding on to the leash and pushing a black glove in her face to sniff it. You don't find that offensive?

[Abby Richards]

You don't find that sexist?

[Bridget Todd]

This is 1982. That's right. It's 1982.

[Abby Richards]

Get out of the 60s.

[Commercial Announcer]

We don't have this mentality anymore.

[Bridget Todd]

Well, you should have seen the COVID.

[Abby Richards]

They wanted to do.

[Bridget Todd]

I don't care what they want. When I first saw that Sabrina Carpenter album, I was like, oh, is this an homage? This is wild.

[Abby Richards]

A really niche homage.

[Bridget Todd]

This is a niche. This is a joke for just me specifically.

[Abby Richards]

That's so funny. I also think this is just like, this is like new research that just came out from Media Matters but is, like, interesting with the Sydney Sweeney stuff. They just published that, like, since Monday. Fox News spent 85 minutes talking about Sydney Sweeney and three minutes talking about Epstein.

[Bridget Todd]

Certainly Sydney Sweeney's new American Eagle jeans ad is more important, has more, like, bigger impacts for the country. No?

[Abby Richards]

And it's like, it just feels so representative of, like, how our own, like, discourse cycle that, like, we feel like is somehow scratching an itch of our, like, political issues actually just becomes a tool to distract us from, like, real political power and how it's manipulated. Like, it just, it feels so representative of that phenomenon.

[Bridget Todd]

Definitely. Oh. More after a quick break.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bridget Todd]

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[Abby Richards]

What do you have to lose?

[Bridget Todd]

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[Bridget Todd]

Let's get right back into it. LinkedIn is quietly stripping their explicit protections for trans and non white users from its English language hate speech rules. The changes, which were flagged by the nonprofit Open Terms Archive and then independently confirmed by the Advocate, involved edits to LinkedIn's professional community policies, specifically the hateful and derogatory content and harassment and abusive content sections. In both, references to protections for trans people and people of color were either weakened or removed entirely. This is something that is, I have a bee in my bonnet about it because it was work that I worked on when I was at Ultraviolet, like getting platforms like I will say TikTok was one of the first platforms to be like, oh, of course we will add dead naming and misgendering to our hateful conduct policies. Great. But when Elon Musk bought Twitter, one of his first acts was removing Twitter's at dead naming and misgendering policy from their hate speech policy. And I remember thinking, oh well, I think that platforms are going to be watching to see if he is able to do this without much fanfare and without much pushback. People did push back against it. It's not like nobody said anything, but I think the fact that he was able to just like unilaterally make that choice and you know, people kept using the platform at that point I think signaled to a lot of other platforms that it was okay to roll back this kind these kinds of policies. So when Trump got in office in January, like Meta did the same thing, YouTube did the same thing. And I do think, you know, platforms, they see how other CEOs behave, they see what other things that other platforms can get away with And I think it informs what they think they can get away with. So I do really think that in part we have Elon Musk to sort of blame for LinkedIn of all places, feeling as if it's fine for them to stop or to roll back these, these policies to add protections for trans folks and people of color.

[Abby Richards]

I think in general, like there's group think when it comes to stuff like, you know, content moderation policies on platforms and they are kind of all looking at each other because like they don't want to moderate. It's, it's like time intensive, it's money intensive. It requires they hire people to do that work. Like the less moderation that they have to do, like the more cost effective it is for them. So I think that they're always going to look for where they can trim that and just like not have to worry about it. It's, it's. I, I don't understand it. I don't understand why you would just like not care if your platform becomes like a toxic waste land. I really can't wrap my head around it.

[Bridget Todd]

Especially a platform like LinkedIn. Yeah. So it's for, it's really meant to be for professionals, job seekers, that kind of thing. I think not giving trans folks and folks of color an equal playing field in a digital arena, that it's all about job seeking is just not. It's, it's, it feels especially cruel, especially as more and more people are getting laid off, that there are the. But nobody, it seems like nobody's hiring right now. It just feels like an extra added burden that CIS people and not non black people are not asked to deal with. If you can't show up to a platform that is all about talking about professional accomplishments and professional thought leader and thought leadership and like finding a job if you can't show up there without being dead named and misgendered. I just think it really, it's, it's a, it's a clear way where these platforms are not equitable and people are not having equitable experiences on them.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah. And like we've known that and we've known that they also aren't very good at enforcing those policies. But like watching them get taken away and like take away like even like the pretense that they were going to try is just like really sad. And I think speaks to like the current political moment and the apathy that these companies feel towards like a need to serve historically like marginalized groups. Like they don't, like, they, like that was very much I think a performance for when it was popular. Yeah. And now that they feel like it's not popular, they're not going to do that performance. Like, it was never coming from a place of, of actual like, well meaning desire to help.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, I know it wasn't because they had to be cajoled into it. So this can't be real. If it's, if you, if you, it only happens because you were cajoled.

[Abby Richards]

I just imagine being like, I'm going to build a platform that's for professionals to discuss their professional work and I don't care like if people dead name each other. Like, I hope there's more dead naming on this platform.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah.

[Abby Richards]

Why? Like, it's, it's a professional platform. It makes no sense.

[Bridget Todd]

No, I'm with you. And even the way that they dealt with it is really wild. So the Advocate reported on this and they got a statement from LinkedIn where a spokesperson initially defended the platform stance against identity based abuse, asserting, quote, we regularly update our policies. Personal attacks, intimidation or hate speech towards anyone based on their identity, including misgendering, violates our harassment policy. It is not allowed on our platform. Then less than an hour later, the company wrote back to the Advocate and asked to revise that statement, removing the phrase hate speech and instead mirroring the new policy language, saying, personal attacks or intimidation toward anyone based on their identity, including misgendering, violates our harassment policy and it's not allowed on their platform. So it's like they can't even keep their own whack policy straight internally.

[Abby Richards]

Well also, at a certain point, like these words become meaningless because like, how is that different than hate speech? And then also you think about like the fact that like, you know, dozens of people were involved in that discussion and there was a whole email thread about like, is hate speech speech allowed? But like discrimination isn't. And like, like, what are we doing? Like this, it's, it's, it's kind of mind boggling and like hard to process. But like, there are so many people involved in like having those conversations of like, are we, is hate speech not a word that we're not a phrase that we're going to be using in our policy anymore? And it's just like, what is this?

[Bridget Todd]

What, why, what are we doing?

[Abby Richards]

Why can we have like a group meeting and maybe like revise our goals as a species? Because like, what are we truly? What are we doing?

[Bridget Todd]

I think this all the time. My last thing I want to talk about is an update on a story that we did earlier this week. And that is about the T app. Certainly you have heard about this, right?

[Abby Richards]

Oh, I'm. I have heard a lot. Yes. I'm very. It's very interesting.

[Bridget Todd]

So for folks that don't know, the T app was designed for women to spill tea on men. The creator of this app says it was designed to help women feel more safe while dating men so that they could share. Women could share their experiences with specific men. I guess the idea being that if a man was abusive or, you know, they had a bad experience with a man, they could. They could safely and anonymously share that. Well, we know it was not anonymous. For a time, that app required women to show their. To give copies of their driver's licenses to confirm they were women. The app eventually scrapped that requirement, but did require women to send selfies. Last week, 1,300 driver's license images of those women, along with 72,000 selfies of women, were all found to be essentially publicly accessible, thanks to the app's atrocious security practices. So the app said, oh, as soon as you submit your license or your selfie, we delete it as soon as you're confirmed. Obviously, that wasn't the case because images of that stuff was all over 4chan. Additionally, private DMs were also left accessible. So folks want the deep dive into what happened there. Check out the episode that we put out about it this week, but we have a slight update.

[Abby Richards]

Ooh, okay.

[Bridget Todd]

And that is the app, probably, unsurprisingly, has been hit with two lawsuits. Two lawsuits have been filed in the Northern District of California alleging negligence, breach of implied contract, and other claims. So one was filed on behalf of Griselda Rays, who said that she submitted a photo while signing up for the app that was included in the breach. She seeks an injunction requiring T to encrypt all data and purge private information, as well as monetary damages as determined by the court. I actually think she has a case. Like I. The app made it clear as day and said, we delete your images, and they did it like they just lied.

[Abby Richards]

That's wild. It's absolutely wild how negligent that is.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, I mean, it almost wasn't fair to call it a hack or, like, even breach feels a little bit strong because these things were essentially publicly accessible. So you can't like to hack information to hack something. It has to be behind some sort of security protocol. Yeah, this was not. So it's like you can't even really call it a hack. That's crazy. It was the Level to which. I mean, the analogy that I spoke to a cybersecurity professional about it, the analogy that they gave me was, imagine if your doctor told you that your private health information that they collected was private, but actually they stored it in an open crate in the alley behind the clinic. I think that's. That is the level of. Of accessible that this information was.

[Abby Richards]

Oh, my God.

[Bridget Todd]

Wait, is it that.

[Abby Richards]

So the T op it's all, like, for women. It's for women to discuss, like, men and ranging on, you know, their interactions with men. But wasn't it, like, found and created by a man?

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah. The creator, businessman and tech capitalist Sean Cook, formerly of Shutterfly, said that he created this app because he. In their marketing. Honestly, it does just sound like marketing to me. In the marketing materials for the app, he said, oh, I watched my mother date and get catfished and, like, get mixed up with men who had criminal records. So I wanted an app that would keep women safe and that women could, like, have safer dating experiences. That may very well be true. And I'm. I'm not denying that there are women who maybe use this app to vet a man or to. To find out information about somebody who genuinely was abusive. I'm not saying that that did not happen on this app. I am saying that when you actually look at the kind of stuff that was posted on the app, it was also women being like, you know, this guy has a bad vibe, or like. Like saying things that were not necessarily rooted in trying to keep women safe from abuse. And so I think it's interesting that this man who created this app for women got to enjoy talking about how they were all about women's safety while doing something that put those same women so clearly at risk.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, no, it's. It feels kind of poetic. It's also kind of what I've started to expect from men, especially when they, like, perform feminism. Like, I have pretty, like, low expectations from. From then when they, like, make their whole Persona about, like, protecting women. I, like, I just think that I need to see them go above and beyond and, like, actually, you know, walk that walk. But, yeah, the fact that it's like, it was that careless and that. That easily hacked. Not even hacked, I guess, stumbled upon, found crazy.

[Bridget Todd]

And the women, some of the women, they. So not only were these women's driver's licenses, which have their addresses on them posted online, also some of these DMS that were. That became accessible were very serious in nature. The second lawsuit, which was brought on behalf of an anonymous Jane Doe, says that she joined the T app because she wanted to anonymously warn other women in her Northern California community about a man who sexually assaulted at least two other women. The app promised her that anonymity. It promised her safety. It promised to delete her verification data. T broke every one of those promises. And so that lawsuit really demonstrates like, that that genuinely could put her at an unsafe situation if she is, if she is reporting this person attacked me, harmed me, having her, her conversations about that be accessible to anybody who wants to see it is putting her deeply at risk. And so, yeah, this app, like, I. I had a feeling there were going to be lawsuits. I'm actually surprised it was this quick because this just happened last week. But, you know, it really, it really. I think these women have a right to some justice here.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, no, 100%. I kind of am interested. I'm very interested to see how this unfolds. I think the whole conversation around it is fascinating. How did they make money?

[Bridget Todd]

Oh, so the app, you got up to five free searches on the app. So how it work is, let's say that I met Joe Blow on the street and I want to see if anybody's talking about him. I could search him on the app to see, you know, if he appears in any tea posts. After those five posts, you then have to buy a paid subscription, which is $15 a month. Or you could share. You could have like five girlfriends sign up and keep using it for free.

[Abby Richards]

Okay, so it was going to be paid, so they weren't doing. Giving it away for free and then like selling data.

[Bridget Todd]

I mean, that I. I'm not willing to say. I'm not able to say that. Yeah. Would it surprise me? I don't know for sure.

[Abby Richards]

Okay, that makes sense. I just think everything about that app is completely fascinating to me. And the fact that so many women flock to it as a place of safety and then we're portrayed is interesting. But also the discourse that was had there and what it means for privacy and safety today is interesting. And then the fact that all of a sudden thousands and thousands of women are doxxed is like the fact that we live in, in that context too, where so suddenly you become essentially like a public figure who is getting harassed is like. I mean, it's, it's such a. Like a rich text for 2025, Society and Technology.

[Bridget Todd]

I talked about this in the episode, but genuinely, when I first heard about this, I thought this has to be some kind of a setup. There's no. Really this. I mean, that, that was my Initial gut feeling was it was such a kind of morality play in a kind of way where it just seemed so on the nose that I thought this has to be. This has. There has to be more to this story. I don't know that that to be true, but that was my initial just. It just felt too, just too much of an on the nose gender war story to have actually happened the way that it seemed to have happened.

[Abby Richards]

Also, there's something to be said too culturally about the way like women engage in sleuthing as a means of like self defense. And that almost, it almost felt like that on steroids of just like, let's bring sleuthing into like, let's like give it a whole structure. Let's give it a system when it's already something that like so many women do in the name of, of like I think really an anxiety and trying to protect themselves.

[Bridget Todd]

Oh yeah. I think that sleuthing and gossip and whisper networks, I don't want to stigmatize those things. I think, I think those things exist for a reason and they have forever because it's about. Those are how women keep ourselves safe. I don't think that there's anything wrong with women sharing information with each other. I think the problem is when this app promises to systematize that in a way that is safe and anonymous and so cruelly betrays the women who flocked to it thinking that it would be safe and anonymous.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, it was like, if a whisper network has that much official structure, like, at what point is it no longer a whisper network?

[Bridget Todd]

Exactly, exactly.

[Abby Richards]

Like, I'm not. I am pro whisper network and I am a huge proponent of gossiping. I think that it is like an evolutionary tactic.

[Bridget Todd]

Tick.

[Abby Richards]

I think gossiping is like one of the best things we've ever developed. I love it. But also if you're gossiping like with, you know, a hundred thousand people, like, is that, is that still gossiping? Like, is that still protection or like. I don't know. I. I find it really interesting same.

[Bridget Todd]

And you know, one of the reasons why I found the TAPP breach so concerning was that so much of the Internet is being restricted by age and like age verification sometimes requires a copy of their government id. And so we already know that platforms that do this have been compromised before. So the version, so a version of what happened to the women with the TAPP could happen conceivably when all of us are submitting our IDs to verify that we're old enough to access certain pockets of the Internet and It's already happening in some places like the uk. So on Wednesday Spotify said that they were going to be rolling out the use of Yodi, which is a smartphone app that uses face scanning to estimate a person's age. If you appear to be underage, then you need to submit your government ID in order to not be age restricted on Spotify. And also YouTube announced this week that it was rolling out technology that was going to use AI to quote, interpret a variety of signals based on the kinds of videos that someone searches for and watches and the longevity of their account to determine if they are under 18. So if their AI senses that you're because of your viewing habits that you might be under 18, you will then have to submit your government ID to bypass automatic age restrictions. And so the fact that this is becoming more commonplace really concerns me.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, that's gonna be a problem for me on YouTube. I've been watching so many clips from Zombies for. They're gonna be like, why is this child also watching so many video essays?

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, I mean my, I think about my, my sister in law who when I look on her YouTube, it's 100% bluey. It's 100% like because they've got toddlers.

[Commercial Announcer]

Yeah.

[Abby Richards]

Or you know, she's got great taste. Bluey is a fantastic show and I am going to stand 10 toes down on Bluey.

[Bridget Todd]

Yeah, we're not. No, no shame for liking Bluey here. But all of this age verification stuff, it's often janky and doesn't work. There's been lots of studies about like it being kind of hit or miss and I think as we sort of move to a place where more and more the Internet is age restricted and we have, we might have to show our government IDs to get it. You know, I think the TAPP breach really shows how problematic and concerning that can be because we really don't know that much about these platforms and web. Like any company can say, oh we're going to delete your Dr. License picture as soon as you submit it. They don't have to necessarily do that.

[Abby Richards]

It's also interesting that like truly the thing that drives all of this is porn. Yeah. Like it's really interesting to me because it's like, you know, both of us have been deep in this world of like content moderation and people who make anonymous accounts and can get away with posting the most horrendous things and there's no verification. Like, you know, part of the reason why you're able to go online and Create a hate account and just troll people and make everybody's lives worse is because like you're making that count. Completely unconnected to a government id. Right. Like they, like there's, there's, that's part of how the Internet has always worked and part of what's made our lives in particular very difficult. But the thing that is driving this, it's always porn. It's always porn and sex and like a panic around it rather than like actual like well being conversations. I think it's really interesting.

[Bridget Todd]

And let's be real. If we actually wanted to keep young people safe and keep them away from things that are harmful, there are a million things we could be doing other than restricting the Internet so heavily in the name of keeping children safer. Like it's interesting to me when we do and when we don't appear to care about the well being of children and keeping them safe, I argue that we are a deeply anti child society, that we don't care about children, we don't care about their safety at all. But then, so it's interesting when we're being told we all have to start showing our IDs to listen to music on Spotify to protect the children. It just immediate red flag, red flag, red flag, red flag.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, of like, yeah. Or like you know the sex toy like legislation in Texas of like trying to make sure that you have to, if you want to buy a sex toy online, you need to show like a government ID to prove your age. And it's just like first of all, which children are buying sex toys online? Find me one. Second of all, I just, I mean maybe this is a hot. I just, I don't really care about a kid having a sex to toy. If a kid wants to have a sex toy and do whatever, like they're, they're gonna use something to masturbate their children.

[Bridget Todd]

Well, yeah, I mean that's some in. So in Australia they had done this whole study on web on like heart restricting the Internet and harm against kids. And one of the things they found was that when you try to keep like sexual content and sexual things away from kids, a lot of times those kids are actually using it for educational context. They're trying to learn about their bodies and their sexuality and all of that. And so by trying to legislate that kind of stuff away from them, you might actually be harming them because you're creating an environment where it's harder for them to get that education and they will seek it elsewhere. Yeah. Which I thought was such an Interesting perspective and sort of how the way that we restrict things sometimes actually end up introducing new harms.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah, because, well, I mean, we're doing this and simultaneously not providing sex ed. Right. Like, part of the reason why I think young people might flock to porn is because they're not having those conversations, like, at home or in school. They don't understand, like, how sex works. And, like, they can't make sense of, like, the feelings that they're experiencing in their body and they don't have access to that information. So of course they're going to, like, gravitate towards porn. And then porn is going to, like, pull you deeper into some sort of Internet rabbit hole because it's like an algorithmically kind of like, send you somewhere. But it seems like the real, like, if we cared about kids and taking care of them and respected them as, like, coming into their own sexuality before the age of 18, which they are, like, they're going through puberty, like, we would make sure to have, like, resources for them and, like, teach them about the things that they're experiencing. But instead we're so much more interested. Like, we. It just makes us uncomfortable. So we shut it down and just be like, no, no. Like, no sex for them. Nothing. Nothing sexual.

[Bridget Todd]

Yes, nothing sexual for them. And also show your ID when you want to watch something other than Bluey on YouTube.

[Abby Richards]

But also the second you turn 18, you can be in that porn.

[Bridget Todd]

Like, yes, the day.

[Abby Richards]

Yes, the day you're 18. Go wild.

[Bridget Todd]

Abby. It's always such a pleasure talking to you. You bring such a light to these sometimes tough topics. Where can people. What are you up to? Where can people keep up with what you're up to? Tell us all the things.

[Abby Richards]

What am I up to? I'm just back from vacation and, like, reassessing some kind of bigger projects that I want to do some deep dives in. So we're going to see where those take me. What I've been up to for the last few months is a big, like, fascist propaganda series. So doing a lot of breakdowns on different types of fascist propaganda and, like, how they work and the themes that they typically cover and, like, use to manipulate people into buying into the fascist cause. And you can find that work on my TikTok at Topology or Instagram or Abby Sr. I'm also on YouTube, which I think is just Abby Richards. And you can read my written stuff at Media Matters.

[Bridget Todd]

Abby is one of my favorite follows on TikTok. It will, it will, it will. It will. Turn your TikTok experience up a notch to follow. Abby, thank you.

[Abby Richards]

That's so kind. I love your TikTok videos. I like I'm trying.

[Bridget Todd]

I am trying. I've talked about this. It's like, it's like in I am. I am an audio person because I like the idea of being a voice in somebody's ears. And then when you get on video, you're like, oh, that's how I look. You're like, I'm trying.

[Abby Richards]

Well, you're a delightful voice in my ears and you look great on screen.

[Bridget Todd]

I'll take it. I'm trying to get like you.

[Abby Richards]

Oh, I want to be like you. I want to be a voice in people's ears. I want to start a little podcast. Sounds fun.

[Bridget Todd]

We got a Freaky Friday where I do the short form video content and you do the long form podcast.

[Abby Richards]

That sounds so fun.

[Bridget Todd]

Sign me up.

[Abby Richards]

Yeah.

[Bridget Todd]

Thank you all for listening and hanging out and unpacking these stories. If you want to follow me, you can follow me on Instagram at Bridget Marie and DC on TikTok at Bridget MarieandC or on YouTube. There are no girls on the Internet. Leave us a comment if you're listening on Spotify. I Hope you're over 18 and I will talk to you soon. Got a story about an interesting thing in tech or just want to say hi. You can reach [e-mail] you can also find transcripts for today's [e-mail] there are no girls on the Internet was created by me, Bridget Todd. It's a production of iHeartRadio and unbossed creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Dodd. If you want to help us grow, rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

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[Bridget Todd]

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