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TheUPside Podcast
Pass The Pig: Priorities, Pressure, and Deescalating Drama with Anne Lakusta
00:33:16
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the Upside podcast where we help you get unstuck in your life and your business by elevating your thinking and provoking meaningful change from the inside out. I'm so excited today to have one of my favorite humans and no doubt our favorite broker here at the GO Network in LA Costa with me today. And we're gonna have an awesome conversation and just tell us a little bit about you, who you are, your background. You've got a pretty cool life story.
- [00:28]
B
Well, thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Yep. I have been married that I'll start there. I'm proud of that. For 45 years.
- [00:36]
A
Amazing.
- [00:36]
B
Yes.
- [00:37]
A
What's your number one secret in 45 year marriage?
- [00:40]
B
That we trust each other. That he's the first person I want to tell things to and when it's personal, you know, you keep it to yourself. You don't gossip about it. So I would say that trust just with all your secrets. I love that. Yeah. Nice. We have two boys, one who is a F35 pilot in the Navy and a commander of a squadron of F35, 35s. He is a very cool dude. Went to the Naval Academy. We're proud of him. And one who went to Notre Dame, got his master's at Leeds University in England and worked for Google for years and now has retired at a young age and is writing the great American novel.
- [01:23]
A
So that's amazing.
- [01:25]
B
Yeah. We are so lucky. I was a real estate agent for about 15 years and then I moved into being a. I was at ReMax, moved to Keller Williams as a team leader. I've never sold a home at Keller Williams, which is so funny.
- [01:41]
A
I didn't know that.
- [01:42]
B
Yeah, because that's home now. And became a team leader and was a team leader for nine years and grew the office and all the things that go with running a real estate office. And then I, along the way had a political. I was on the school board. These things happen to you. Your children get rezoned a million times in a fast growth school district and you decide that rather than complain, you should maybe do something about it. I love that. So I've had a very interesting life in terms of choosing to lead at different times. And so that's what brought me into writing a book about leadership and what I'd learned about it. So you lead your family, you lead your. You lead at your church, then you lead your community, you lead at your business. It just kind of develops into a story of hopefully having positive influence.
- [02:40]
A
Well, I love that. And I remember Being an assistant team leader in the leadership rooms when you were still a team leader. And I always admired you because you are a. Say it how it is. You're one of the most vulnerable. If you feel a certain way, you don't put on facades. You are just who you are. And who you are is authentically awesome. No. And so that works. But I've always admired you a lot. And so now in your role, you do something that. A job that I think most people would probably tear their hair out. And yet, it is all your leadership experience throughout your life that I think has prepared you to lead 4,000 realtors. So if you're not in the real estate space or you're not familiar with the Go network, we have 13 offices. We have nine local offices. And your license sponsors every one of these independent entrepreneurs.
- [03:37]
B
Right.
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A
Who typically don't love to do what people tell them to do. Right. They don't have to. And they don't have to. These are independent minded humans. And so your role, you get the escalated situation. So if there's an angry client, if there's a lawsuit, if somebody did something wrong, you are in the middle of the most tense situations that we have to deal with in our company. And you handle it with so much grace under pressure.
- [04:02]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [04:02]
A
I, you know, anytime I left the.
- [04:04]
B
Front, I call you.
- [04:05]
A
Yeah, right.
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B
Okay.
- [04:06]
A
We're gonna get into that. Like, what's the real Ann? And how much do you actually drink? No, I'm kidding. But you do handle it with grace under pressure. And what I'm always impressed with when I call you is you are somebody that says, I see the problem. We're gonna figure out a way.
- [04:22]
B
Right.
- [04:23]
A
A lot of times, breakers tend to be very black and white. And of course, there's black and white, right and wrong. But as far as just being an out of the box creative problem solver, and you have a really great way of de Escalating. De escalating situation. So I want to get into all of that because regardless of what your role is, everybody has to learn how to de escalate. De escalate situations. Okay, so tell me, what do you think in your career has been one of the most intense leadership situations that you have faced?
- [04:55]
B
So I thought about real estate specific and I thought, well, Covid, yeah, we woke up one day and we couldn't show homes. Well, maybe we could show homes in Dallas, but we couldn't show homes in Keller.
- [05:09]
A
Right.
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B
Or we could. You know, all the rules were different. You had to have a mask or you had to have shoe covers or you just couldn't touch anything or you couldn't be in there. At the same time we had people flipping out because the appointment behind me came in while I was still there and they were breathing like okay, well it was really just, yeah, we laugh.
- [05:31]
A
About that, but that was actually a reality.
- [05:33]
B
It was a true moment in time that required every bit of de escalation that you could find because people were escalated just when they woke up in the morning. You woke up as a human being tense in the situation and not sure how to proceed. And for these people, I always tried to remember their livelihood came from figuring out how to proceed. If they could not proceed, they did not get paid. So that was different than many careers.
- [06:02]
A
Yes.
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B
Right. Well.
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A
And I think in any normal market you deal with people a lot of times at a low point. Right. A place. And the difference with COVID is everybody in the entire world was stressed at the same time. It wasn't just like somebody's going through this personal life situation. It was everybody. There was just a intensity in the air. So how did you stay grounded that. What did you learn through that experience of dealing with just a high pressure, high stress environment?
- [06:30]
B
I think it really emphasized for me that the best thing that I can say to people when they are high stressed is how can I help? Just how can I help? And that doesn't mean that I can always do it or that I always have the answer about how can I help. Let me see how I can move us in that direction. Let me see what's one step that I can go get information on or get someone else to help us or something. But how can I help? Tends to just lower the temperature.
- [06:59]
A
That is really good. I can even see that using that with my 13 year old girls.
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B
Oh yeah.
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A
When it's very emotion, how can I help instead of. I think the natural thing is to want to coach or to want to give advice. Right. And when you're in a brokerage situation, a lot of times there is a right and wrong and sometimes the person on the other end of the phone is wrong.
- [07:19]
B
And how people don't want to hear.
- [07:21]
A
That and they don't want to hear that.
- [07:23]
B
You learn that almost in our business to talk real estate for a minute, like with an appraisal, people, well, let's just get the appraiser to look at it again. Well, what are the odds that the appraiser is going to say they were wrong?
- [07:34]
A
Zero.
- [07:35]
B
Right. It's not going to happen. And yet we Continue to be surprised by that. So in my broker role, I've really learned to try very, very hard to not say, you're wrong, to say, how can I help? What are our choices? What, what does our consumer want? What does our client wish to have happen?
- [07:54]
A
And getting clarity around that, getting some.
- [07:57]
B
Clarity rather than saying, oh my gosh, why did you do that?
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A
That's what you're thinking in your head can be.
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B
Yes.
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A
Okay, so talking in real estate when a transaction starts to unravel and in our industry right now, we are at an all time high nationally for unraveling transactions.
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B
Yes.
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A
Less of them are, are getting across the finish line after they go under contract than any time in history.
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B
That's right.
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A
So what are the first signals? And not necessarily from a real estate law perspective, but what are the first signs that an agent is losing maybe leadership with their client or that things are going awry in the transaction?
- [08:40]
B
So I would say blame. But when I speak to someone and they're blaming as opposed to looking for that, how can I help? What should I do now? How can I help? What can you. They're blaming. They call me and what they want me to hear is that other person is just horrible human. They want to tell me their story as opposed to wanting to find resolution or a next step. And so I hear the blame and I think, okay, this is a de escalation moment. This is a. Okay, I hear you. I am sure that other person wishes they had acted differently. So, okay, I'm going to give you that. And then we're just going to pause for a minute and then we're going to figure out what do you really need besides just love and support that, hey, yeah, this, this is a bad spot. I'm sorry. Yeah.
- [09:37]
A
Are we actually looking for a solution or are you just wanting to vent your problem? So how do help somebody in that time where they are just wanting to blame and to point the finger? How do you take somebody who's maybe done something wrong? Maybe, maybe they made a wrong decision or made a mistake, or maybe they just have handled it in a way that has caused it to escalate. How do you hold up a mirror to somebody while still de escalating that situation?
- [10:08]
B
I think that what I bring, particularly now after some years of experience in this role, is that we have had people do some things really wrong and we have never had anyone lose their license, we have never had anyone go through a serious penalty phase. And so we can handle it. And so I think you start there with okay, wow. That wasn't perfect. Okay. It's okay. We do a lot of imperfect things.
- [10:40]
A
Yeah.
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B
And so let's just break it down and start with that. And I do use writing most of the time.
- [10:49]
A
Okay, tell me more about that.
- [10:51]
B
So people want to tell you the story, but when they write you, the story is a whole lot shorter.
- [10:56]
A
Yes.
- [10:57]
B
And that sounds selfish on my part. Maybe. Usually, yes. Occasionally people will write me a novel, but a lot of the emotion around it disappears if they sit down and write a bullet point summary. Could you just bullet point me? What happened? I hear you, but if you could send me an email with bullet points, that will help me decide what we should do next.
- [11:19]
A
So I think what you do so well is the trust triangle, meaning you're creating empathy with somebody. You're allowing them to feel heard and seen. I hear you. I get it. I understand how you're feeling in this moment. And then let's get a little bit logical and getting them out of the emotion by having them bullet point it and write it. That is really good.
- [11:43]
B
I don't think about it that way. I've just learned that if you don't hear them and hear their frustration or their anger or their sadness, they don't care what you say.
- [11:58]
A
Yes.
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B
They don't care what I say if I haven't first cared about them.
- [12:01]
A
Yeah. I had to learn a lot of conflict resolution when I worked at a home warranty company because people would call me screaming mad. And oftentimes there was a ball dropped by a contractor or by customer service. It was not always a perfect scenario. So learning how to take responsibility of that. And then oftentimes, though, along with that, there was a missed expectation. They had an expectation of what this was supposed to be or what their contract covered. And so having that empathy, though, then allowed you to be able to bring them to a new set.
- [12:34]
B
Occasionally what happens to me is they think they're going to call me and then I'm going to solve their problem. They think, oh, I'm going to talk to Anna, just give it to her. And of course, that isn't really how that goes because they're the ones in the relationships and. And in the middle of the situation. So the best thing I could do is help them and advise them and lead them to solving it themselves, which.
- [12:58]
A
Is going to make them more likely to be able to solve it themselves. To wait and to not get down that road. Yes. How do you regulate your own emotions when people are fanatical? And, I mean, there's times I know that you get on the other end of the line, and. And people are unreasonable. What they want you to do, how they want the problem solved. They're unreasonable about other people's expectations. No doubt. It has to make you insane at times. How do you regulate your own emotion in that?
- [13:31]
B
Well, I would say I'm very lucky with the team of people I work with, so. You are amazing. Right. The leaders of our individual offices are amazing, and I feel very comfortable going, oh, my gosh, Teresa, I need to just tell you about this situation, because it could bubble up to you.
- [13:48]
A
Yes.
- [13:48]
B
Also. Or bubble back to you or however you want to phrase that. I work with Smokey quite a bit, and when I need to just tell him that I think we're in a mess, he's on speed dial to say, I think there's a possibility we're just in a mess. And there you go.
- [14:08]
A
Yeah.
- [14:09]
B
And he is very calm. He's. He's very grounding for me. And then, of course, my husband. We've been married forever. And so at the end of the day, when I just say, I am done, I need just, shh. I'm turning off my phone. Don't talk to me. Leave me. He has learned. Okay, that's probably good for both of us for you to just have a little peace. Yeah.
- [14:30]
A
Well, I think when we have perspective, I feel like that's one of the biggest things with just dealing with stress, whether it is crazy people or just any kind of pressure we have in. In our work roles. When you have the perspective of family and you have the perspective of friends outside of work and you have the perspective, it just creates this idea that it's more to life than just this moment, that this, too, shall pass. This will be okay. And the team we do it with at the GO Network is pretty awesome.
- [15:02]
B
Yes.
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A
In the trenches together.
- [15:04]
B
Yeah. We don't have to be alone. No matter.
- [15:06]
A
We don't have to be alone. Um, so you. You mentioned specifically the phrase, how can I help? But how else does tone or timing or the words that you're choosing when you're in those escalated situations? What other tips or frameworks do you have?
- [15:28]
B
So I am also a big fan of the book Fierce Conversation.
- [15:32]
A
Yeah, it's a great book.
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B
Um, it has helped me a great deal learn that there are how to prepare myself. I think one thing I've learned is that very rarely are anyone in business surprised by anger from someone in bubbles first. And they are surprised sometimes by how strong it can be. But the fact that it exists is not that surprising. And so I think that you learn to prepare for those fierce conversations. And so really almost every day I have to have those. And so I've gotten pretty good at getting myself centered, getting my workspaces always cleaned off at the end of every day so that when I come in it's clean, it's clear I have my two or three things that I'm still completing from the day before and that really helps me be ready to handle because I have a reactive job.
- [16:30]
A
Yes.
- [16:32]
B
Most of the time that's not ideal for people. You need to not react right. You need to stick to your plan that you set and do your plan in the morning. Well, my role really is reactive.
- [16:42]
A
Yeah.
- [16:43]
B
So that means my desk really does need to be pre cleared. I need to have a clear mind so that I can deal with whatever happens now.
- [16:53]
A
And I will say on the flip side of that, one of the things I think you do very well as our broker is that you watch for these patterns of mistakes or challenges and mistakes not even necessarily just by our agents, mistakes by agents on the other side of the transaction or challenges or what are we seeing regularly, how do you approach that? You know, through your broker trap chat training or we have our own buyer representation agreement that you created to be more proactive and have better conversations with buyer clients about commissions and about scope of work and all of that. So how do you think that way? How much time do you spend time thinking proactively about problem solving and how do you time block for that?
- [17:40]
B
So I do have time blocked three days a week, usually kind of at the end of the day to stop and think about. And I'm very committed to being a lifelong learner. Yesterday I went to a broker summit. I didn't have to go. No one makes you go. But I wanted to go because I want to know what's next in our industry. And so there was an AI presentation, there was, was a forms presentation, there was an antitrust lawyer presentation. And I want, I want to continue to be that person because by having our own forms and by having we are thinking ahead so that we're avoiding some of the problems that you're seeing in our industry now because we did some of the right things early on. And so we're, I'm trying to stay in that space. What do we need to be doing next? Because, oh, I see that this problem is going to be coming our way.
- [18:42]
A
You know, as a, as a leader. It's being ahead, it's learning ahead of, of having to learn it and then starting to put vision in place. And I think you've done a very good job with that. I remember you talking about buy side commissions going away before anybody was talking about that. That would. Before the lawsuits were really even happening around that. And you would come in and we were talking, if you could not get paid directly from a buyer, what does this look like? And I remember the first time we started having those conversations. Our agents are just like glossy eye, like, what on earth are you talking about? Why are you such a downer? Like what is happening? And we were so well prepared and things changed in our industry. We were so well prepared because we had been talking about it and changing mindset and thinking differently outside the box. And a lot of that was to your credit. I think you led the way very, very well in that. And that is such a key piece of leadership moving forward.
- [19:43]
B
And that's how you maintain your influence. If leadership is largely influence, one way you keep that is to make sure that you are a lifelong learner, that you are actually embracing those things. We were talking a little bit about AI and what that means. And so many people, they're talking about making a broker bot, you know, like Ann bot. And it's like, well, if she can be 21 with long blonde hair, I'm in, done. But I think embracing that and figuring out. And I've had people say to me, aren't you worried about that? What if you lose your job? And I'm like, well, as I understand a bot, it would only say what I told it to say. So I think I'm not really too worried about that. Um, but it's interesting, the fear that goes. And I'm so lucky because I really don't, I don't feel fear about learning new things. I'd rather step right in front of it and figure out, okay, how's this going to work for me? And then if, if I can make it work for me, then how do I turn around then and make it work for them?
- [20:47]
A
Yes. Okay, so talk to me. You've seen. I can't even imagine, Ann, the amount of stories that you have on the field. I want you to tell the pig story. Great. Which Ann has written a book on leadership called Pass the Pig. It's an awesome book. And she tells the story at the beginning.
- [21:09]
B
Yes.
- [21:10]
A
So day one, on the job as a team leader, if you're not familiar in the Keller Williams world, the team leader of the market center. It's what I do at Dallas Preston Road. So office Manager, essentially recruiting, coaching, consulting, growing the market center responsible for the culture. And yet you're chasing pink. So ants that first.
- [21:28]
B
On day one, that first day did not go at all. You know, on your first day at any new role, you want to meet the people. So I wanted to meet agents, I wanted to meet staff. I wanted to let them know my vision. I had all these plans and when I got there there was a call right away that passed through to me. I'm a brand new leader and I'm like, hello. And they tell me that one of my agents has let a pig out the front door. I, you know, start with just kind of, okay, I'm pretty sure this is my job now.
- [22:03]
A
Don't get people for this.
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B
Whose job is this? And but it turned out that it was a some sort of designer pig. They said it was worth $40,000 and the pig was running down the street. And they, they had called the police but that I had to come do something. Well, they first off, I'm 100% sure I'm not going to be effective at doing something with the pig.
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A
How much experience had you had pig catching? Zero experience.
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B
This is not going to happen. But I also understood this was our listing. Someone had.
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A
So did they know where the pig was? Like was it running around supernatural?
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B
They did. They could see it. So it wasn't gone. And they had called animal control or whomever. So I felt like they had done the right things. That didn't change the fact they were really mad at our agent and our people because we let their pig out. I guess that's bad for a domesticated dishonor pig to be loose. So basically I spent the whole day because then we had to write a police report and then we, I mean just the things that come. So at the end of the day I thought what happened? Just, you know, you ask about emotions.
- [23:16]
A
I don't think I remember my first date because it was so nondescript and that was wholesome. That would be awesome.
- [23:22]
B
But no, it was just a moment of what just happened in my day and how did I. Because I couldn't solve it. I knew I wasn't the peak catcher.
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A
Right.
- [23:32]
B
And yet I didn't control my day. I let that swallow my day whole. So when I sat down to write a book about leadership because I do think I've between being in politics and understanding the absolute need to build consensus in any and school board is not exactly political. But let's be honest.
- [23:53]
A
It's political.
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B
It's political.
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A
You need to get Elected PTA is political, Right?
- [23:58]
B
Even the PTA is political. I mean, if you don't have influence and can't build a, you know, consensus, you're wasting your time. And so I, you know, you stop and think about all your experiences and that pig story really stood out to me as I lost it that day. I just lost it. I sat back and went, why did I spend my entire first day on the job worrying about a pig when clearly I'm not going to do anything good about the pig. I have nothing to offer in the pig situation. So that as I thought through my life stories of being a leader in interesting situations, that's one that jumped up in is, it's funny.
- [24:41]
A
Yeah.
- [24:43]
B
And it's true.
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A
And they got their pig back.
- [24:45]
B
And they got their pig.
- [24:46]
A
Everybody was saying, very worried about the forty thousand dollar design pig.
- [24:49]
B
They got their pig.
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A
Was it an exceptionally pretty pig?
- [24:52]
B
No, it was an exceptionally large pig.
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A
I see. It was, okay, so very pound I.
- [25:00]
B
Mean, I'm pretty sure there were a lot of inappropriate jokes that upset the owner about this pig. But yeah, it lived in my memory and taught me a lot about just how to stay in control. How do you get rid of the things that are going to try to interrupt your day? Because they're going to. How do you get back to what are your priorities? And I love the quote about how do you focus on what you want most as opposed to what you want now?
- [25:33]
A
And how often have one to learn.
- [25:35]
B
And they're in conflict.
- [25:37]
A
Yeah, they're in conflict.
- [25:38]
B
They're in conflict so often. And that's just this pass. The pig story is just a shining example of, well, right now I want that dad gum pig to get cancer.
- [25:49]
A
Okay, so you, at the beginning of your book, when you're writing your foreword from the author, you sign it off and say it's all about the journey.
- [25:57]
B
That's right.
- [25:58]
A
And I love that because I resonate with that so much. I believe that it is all about the journey.
- [26:02]
B
That's right.
- [26:03]
A
So how does somebody really enjoy the journey?
- [26:08]
B
I think the first step to enjoying the journey is understanding that it is one. I don't, I don't look forward to a day when I'm finished. I'm not even sure I know what that means. I hope that I will be loving and giving and matter to at least a few people right up until I'm not here anymore. Yes, no doubt. And so first off, I think you do. You need to view it as a journey, not where am I going and when I get There I'm going to stop. I'm all about goals, but they're a part of the journey, not the end.
- [26:47]
A
The end.
- [26:48]
B
Right.
- [26:48]
A
There was a comment at from the Mega Camp stage this week that if you do not determine your own definition of success and you chase somebody else's, you're going to end up wildly unhappy.
- [26:59]
B
Right.
- [27:00]
A
And you've got to determine what you really want. And the goals that we have are just stops along the way, but they're not the destination.
- [27:08]
B
I really, I feel so lucky because I've gotten to live that.
- [27:12]
A
Yeah.
- [27:12]
B
You know, but raising kids and now being a part of my grandkids life and running a business and running businesses that I own and businesses that I don't own and then being political along the way because I thought it was important for my family. I've had so many goals. Yeah.
- [27:33]
A
Okay, so who. Leadership by attraction. Pass the pig. Who should read this book?
- [27:39]
B
I think people who want to be a more impactful leader, people who know that they could lead or that maybe they're in. In the position, particularly people who find themselves in a leadership position who want to be more impactful, who want to influence more, people who want to grow their sphere, always think about that. Drop a pebble and how big are the ripples? If you're looking to make your ripples bigger, which is something that constantly is part of my faith is that I hope to bring encouragement and joy to more people. Courage, joy, whatever you want to say. That what can I bring to you to make your day better? Is a part of my faith. So that's part of that ripple. And that's who should read this book. There are some great, I believe, moments of realizing, okay, I need one of these things. I need clarity, I need to know what to do now. I need fun. When you're waking up every day and you're slogging through your day, you're probably not an awesome leader.
- [28:48]
A
Yeah.
- [28:49]
B
Because who wants to follow that? I mean I can wake up and be. Have a horrible day out by myself. I don't need to follow you through your, you know, sloggy day. So if we get clarity and we have fun and then we figure out how not to be stagnant, how to continually be interesting and energetic. How do we that attracts people?
- [29:11]
A
It does well. And you mentioned that you're a learning based person and you're always learning and growing and I think that is part of being somebody who views life as a journey. Because if we're not continually learning and growing, we're not moving forward. And a journey is always about moving forward. It's going from here to there. And it's not always about the speed or the method of the travel or even what that destination is, but it is about moving forward. And. And so being a learning based person is really, I think, a key piece of.
- [29:42]
B
And I laugh. And one of my hobbies is music. I love to listen to music. I love to make people playlists for different.
- [29:49]
A
You'll give Tommy a run for his money, at least for jukebox. This I do know to be a fact.
- [29:54]
B
I love music. Well, part of that is then I make playlists for people as they go through different things and I share music and I find it to just be. That's me on my journey. I don't want to lose that. I want.
- [30:08]
A
What's your next concert?
- [30:09]
B
Bringing it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So. And we're going to see Lawrence and Lake street dive and we're going to Kansas City here in Dallas. The next one is Dua Lipa.
- [30:19]
A
Oh, September. You are also a very eclectic musician.
- [30:25]
B
I like everything.
- [30:25]
A
Is there anything you don't like music wise?
- [30:30]
B
Probably not. So I would say I think a lot. As a joke, I like all kinds of live things. Also. I like live sports. I like to go and have the energy and the experience and even when I don't really know what I'm watching sometimes I still have a great time. And music definitely is a. You know, I'm not a big symphony person, but I can go and love it.
- [30:55]
A
You can appreciate it. Okay, final question 10. As we are in the whole world, whatever industry, if you're in real estate, this absolutely applies. But everything is changing so fast and change, even when we embrace it creates stress. What is your advice to everybody as they're just navigating change, as they're navigating clients under pressure, just a high pressure environment. What is your advice to everybody to manage that kind of pressure and stress?
- [31:30]
B
I do think about it in our industry quite a bit because there is so much change in how we do our job. I think the best advice I can give is to breathe. Change doesn't happen to you, really. If you just breathe, you're able to get help, you're able to slow down. Gosh, YouTube's your friend. I mean, it isn't always about doing something complicated. It's just breathing and finding. Okay, what is one little bit of information I could get that's gonna make things easier for me? I love that.
- [32:05]
A
And that will cause you to live on the upside that's right.
- [32:08]
B
Oh, yeah. You have to approach every day on the upside because that determines how your day's gonna go.
- [32:14]
A
Well, you are a joyful broker.
- [32:16]
B
Ah, yay. Thank you.
- [32:18]
A
Thank you so much. So much. We can learn from you. And I think any of our realtors that have interacted with you in stressful sit. You are so well loved and so well respected.
- [32:29]
B
Oh, thank you.
- [32:31]
A
In our network and I think even ages on the other side of transactions that have had to encounter you would would say the same thing. But you do exemplify grace under pressure, joy in the journey, and just all of the things that we all aspire to be. So thank you for leading the way and thank you for being on with me today. I would encourage everybody go get Anne's book, pass the pig. I know you can get it on Amazon.
- [32:52]
B
Yes, absolutely.
- [32:52]
A
It's the best place to get it.
- [32:53]
B
That's the best place to get. This place sure is Amazon.
- [32:56]
A
So easy peasy. And encourage you to put this on your reading list. And. And thank you for coming on with us.
- [33:02]
B
Thank you. I loved it.
- [33:03]
A
All right, everybody, that is one more episode of the Upside. And when you invest in your personal growth every single day, it is going to yield you great returns. Thank you for tuning in. And as always, keep living on the Upside.