The Secret to Leading Long: Trust, Empathy & Knowing When to Ask for Help: An Interview with Wendi Harrelson

Summary

TheUPside Podcast | Episode Summary

Episode Title: The Secret to Leading Long: Trust, Empathy & Knowing When to Ask for Help – An Interview with Wendi Harrelson
Host: Theresa Flood
Guest: Wendi Harrelson (Divisional Leader, Keller Williams Realty, Central Division)
Release Date: April 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and wisdom-packed episode, host Theresa Flood sits down with Wendi Harrelson, a 35-year veteran of Keller Williams, to uncover the keys to “leading long.” Together, they explore how trust, empathy, resilience, and knowing when to ask for help are critical to lasting leadership. Through personal anecdotes and candid reflections, Wendi shares lessons from building market centers, transitioning through leadership roles, and nurturing authentic relationships—all while navigating career, family, and industry shifts. The episode is a candid guide for anyone aspiring to thrive as a leader over the long haul, especially in challenging times.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Wendi’s Backstory and Leadership Journey

(00:50–09:30)

• Never “Worked Anywhere Else”: Wendi started and built her entire real estate career at Keller Williams, “by design, by accident”.

  “I actually am probably the one of the not so normal ones that I've never worked for another real estate company.” (00:19, Wendi)

• From Agent to Leadership: Entered real estate after moving from Nebraska to LA, then Austin, ultimately joining Keller Williams via a chance encounter in a drugstore.
• Reluctance to Lead, Shifted by Motherhood: Turned down team leader roles repeatedly until motherhood and a desire for more structure sparked a new path.
• Resilience Through Change: Moved to North Carolina for a team leader position with a newborn, only to arrive right before 9/11 hit (04:34).
• Turnaround Successes: Helped rebuild struggling market centers, emphasizing her ability to stick with and transform organizations.

Building and Sustaining Trust in Leadership

(07:31–15:24, 18:48–22:22)

• Initial Skepticism & Earning Buy-in: Inherited skeptical teams, built trust with transparency and commitment (e.g., promised five years, stayed fifteen).

  “I said, I'm gonna make a five year commitment. ... I actually made 15.” (08:10, Wendi)

• Own Your Mistakes:

  “I've made tons of mistakes. And you know what? I owned it. ... I actually had more buy in at that point because I just said it was my fault.” (11:27, Wendi)

• Relationship First: Prioritized relationships over numbers, often resulting in team members returning after leaving.
• Concrete Example of Integrity: Corrected previous leadership’s errors even when not her fault by restoring agents’ profit-share lines, cementing trust.

  “I made a commitment that I would replace every single person ... and I did that.” (19:18–20:05, Wendi)

The Emotional Realities of Leading with Heart

(12:38–14:30, 37:22–38:36)

• Letting People Leave Well: Empathized with leaders’ fear of investing and then experiencing departures, but emphasized the importance of parting on good terms as relationships can endure and even return.

  “Love them on the way out. ... They're going to say, you know, [I] was treated with respect and dignity.” (13:12–14:16, Wendi)

• Leadership Can Be Lonely—But Shouldn’t Be:

  “If we're lonely as leaders, we're doing this wrong.” (22:28, Theresa)

Core Qualities of Leadership Longevity

(09:31–15:24, 27:46–34:02)

• Listening Over Speaking: Leadership means listening without judgment, recognizing burnout, and not finishing people’s sentences.

  “Listening becomes the leadership, I think, skill. Being a good listener and not judging and not finishing people's sentences ...” (15:12, Wendi)

• Seek Help, Stay Humble:

  “You have to be humble enough to ask. You don't—I'm always asking for help.” (18:06, Wendi)

• Adapt and Reinvent: Acknowledged need to evolve as technology and communication change (social media, AI, etc.).

  “The things that worked for us seven years ago are not working for us now.” (27:59, Wendi)

• Celebrate the Journey & Others’ Successes: Holding on to thank-you notes and expressing gratitude keeps morale high.

  “I'm very intentional on doing that...making sure you tell people. Give gratitude because it is the best thing you can do…” (27:20, Wendi)

The Ups and Downs: Resilience, Failure, and Growth

(17:43–18:06, 34:33–36:15)

• Embrace Both Good and Bad Seasons:

  “A bad day doesn't define you, nor does the good day. ... You don't have one without the other.” (16:49–17:42, Theresa)

• Failure as a Learning Mechanism:

  “If you're failing, you're really not failing. You might just be in a long learning process.” (17:43, Wendi)

• Advice for When You Want to Quit: Pause, self-reflect, ask for help, and consider the broader impact before making decisions.

  "Go look in the mirror and ask why? ... What would it do? What letdown would it be for some people that are waiting for that bit of advice or just that hand to give them or that call that's right there that they couldn't do that anymore?" (35:07–36:15, Wendi)

The Legacy of Leadership

(29:30–34:29)

• Passing the Torch and Celebrating Progress:

  "You may have set that threshold, but then you've got somebody eager to beat it and go even farther, and then there'll be a person that wants to beat that threshold." (30:54, Wendi)

• Leadership as Service: Ultimate rewards come from seeing others rise and supporting them through empathy and service.

  “It's not about what you did for a career, but what did you do for others, and I think that's what you get remembered for.” (33:10, Wendi)

• Personal Growth is Continuous: Leadership is a commitment to personal growth, stumbles included.

  "You'll stumble and you'll stumble, and you'll take a few steps back and go, okay, it's decision time. ... So I think you have to make that decision..." (34:33, Wendi)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On relationships & leadership longevity:

  “Relationships come first. I love my people ... building relationships that last and matter, like, I can honestly say my best friends for my entire life are at this company.” (10:57, Wendi)

• On trust:

  “There's nothing worse than being let down by a promise. And under promising and over delivering has always ... worked for anybody...” (21:31, Wendi)

• On empathy in leadership:

  “Leading with your heart is not the easiest way to lead because your heart can get broken. ... Empathy is just something that we need right now. You have to listen and you have to have empathy.” (37:22, Wendi)

• On asking for help:

  “I'm pretty sure the biggest head leaders in this world ask for help. And if they don't, it may not be their best interest for them right now because we all— we all need help.” (18:27, Wendi)

• On failure as growth:

  “So if you're failing, you're really not failing. You might just be in a long learning process.” (17:43, Wendi)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:50 – Wendi’s entry into real estate and her unique loyalty to one company
• 03:57 – Becoming a team leader after motherhood, and moving states
• 07:31 – Inheriting struggling offices, skepticism, and trust-building
• 10:57 – The “secret sauce” of leadership: putting relationships first
• 12:38 – Letting people leave with love, and the resilience of lasting relationships
• 15:12 – Listening as a leadership superpower; empathy and not judging
• 18:06 – The importance of humility and asking for help
• 19:18 – Facing legacy issues, fixing profit-share errors to build trust
• 25:29 – Major changes and challenges in communication, technology & disengagement
• 27:46 – The power of gratitude: thank-you notes, handwritten letters, and authenticity
• 29:30 – Lessons leadership has taught Wendi about herself and the evolution of opportunity
• 34:33 – Leadership’s demands for personal growth, and advice on perseverance
• 37:22 – The necessity and cost of leading with empathy and heart

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Final Takeaways

• Trust and empathy are non-negotiable for long-term leadership success.
• Relationships outlast roles, and your legacy is measured by your impact on others, not your title.
• Leadership means being willing to learn, fail forward, ask for help, and stay in the game—even when it’s tough.
• Gratitude and personal connection set enduring leaders apart in a rapidly changing world.
• To fight burnout and lead long, nurture your network, care deeply, and celebrate every meaningful moment.

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For more actionable leadership advice and future episodes, subscribe at teresafla.com.

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#TheUPside #Leadership #Empathy #Trust #Longevity #PersonalGrowth

Transcript

[A]

Today we're talking all things leadership with one of my favorite leaders. Welcome to the Upside podcast where we help you get unstuck in life and business by elevating your thinking and provoking meaningful change from the inside out. Wendy Harrelson, welcome to the Upside.

[B]

Thank you, Teresa. This is an honor. Well, I'm so excited to be here.

[A]

I was telling Rick, who produces this podcast, how lucky I am to do this because I get to sit down with some of my favorite leaders and mentors and get to know you and pick your brain and hear your story and everything. So you are. We were talking about this, an OG at Keller Williams. You've been with us for a very, very long time and in a leadership role. A very, very long time. And you've. You've done pretty much every. Every leadership role. You're currently a divisional leader for the South Central region. Did I get that correct?

[B]

The Central.

[A]

For the central divisional division. And you're a multiple market center op operating partner. You've been a team leader, which is the role that I currently hold. You've been an agent. You've been all of the things. So I really want to hear your story because I don't know. Wendy. Prior to Wendy.

[B]

There's not money is now Prior.

[A]

We'll tell me all about it.

[B]

Give us a I might be ogg. Is there such a thing?

[A]

There is now.

[B]

There's no. We're going to coin it. It's good.

[A]

Done.

[B]

I actually am probably the one of the not so normal ones that I've never worked for another real estate company. I started as a brand new agent with Keller Williams.

[A]

It's amazing.

[B]

Almost 35 years ago.

[A]

Wow. And at that time, what made you

[B]

choose Keller Williams was 100% accident. So what happened was life by design.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

By design, by accident. Actually, usually it works out pretty well. Yeah. As you know. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Just X something. It's a lot of times, I don't know. The thing. Here's the thing. I don't know that there's ever any X.

[A]

That's a good point.

[B]

So I graduated from the University of Nebraska. Okay. And I grew up in Nebraska and I moved to Los Angeles, California.

[A]

Why did she. What a change.

[B]

So my parents were standing in the driveway going, what is she doing? Why? Why would she go to that crazy place then?

[A]

I loved it. And what was the dream? Why did you go to that crazy place?

[B]

I was going to be a flight attendant for American Airlines. Okay.

[A]

Travel the world.

[B]

Travel the world.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Yeah. Travel the world. And make $18,000 a year, which at that time, you know, it was okay.

[A]

I mean, a life of adventure. You know what?

[B]

I did see a lot. Yeah, no doubt. But I always ended up in this amazing city, Austin, Texas. And I knew anybody that's listening or seeing this that lives in California, $18,000 is not going to do it. Yeah. My little Honda Civic was going to give out one day. Yeah. I was going to have to. So I just made a decision that I was going to go back to Austin. I was going to end up in Austin, Texas. Okay. And so I went to an eck, which is now a cvs. So that's how long ago it was.

[A]

I remember in Eckerds.

[B]

Yes. And I picked up the real estate book, which I don't even know that they have one anymore. They don't used to have the little real estate book.

[A]

I remember those.

[B]

Yeah. And I started looking through it, and I saw a girl that kind of looked like my age and maybe looked like me. And I called her, and she was with Keller Williams. Wow. And we became. In fact, I talked to her this morning. Her name is Lisa Kossib. And her birthday. My birthday was Friday, and her birthday is on the 16th. So our birthdays were 10 days apart. And we became. We really became best friends. That is so cool. And she said, why don't you just come work with me? And I said, I don't want real estate. What do you do? Yeah. And that's honestly what happened. Wow. And became kind of worked with her, got my license, and next thing you know, working. Had an amazing year, Capped my first year, and went on to be a mega independent agent and was asked to be a team leader probably about six or seven times. And I said, absolutely not, because.

[A]

Why did you say absolutely not?

[B]

When I saw all the crazy things they had to deal with and all the problems and all the people and all the things. And I thought, why would anybody want to do that? And then the most beautiful thing happened to me. In 2001, I had my first daughter, Madison, and I was approached to go be a team leader in North Carolina, believe it or not. Okay. And so my husband at the time, and Madison and I moved. And Madison was six months old, and we moved to Morrisville, North Carolina. And two days after we moved in, nine, 11 happened.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[B]

So one of those things like, oh, my gosh, now what did I do?

[A]

Right.

[B]

I left this amazing business. I'm going to be a team leader, which I don't even know what to do. And I'm probably gonna have to learn how to use email. You know, it was just like one of those things is like. And that's what happened. And so.

[A]

So why did you say yes to that opportunity? Why was the time finally right after saying no six or seven times?

[B]

I think because of the craziness every day being an agent. And I had a. I was a mom now. Yeah. So maybe it was gonna be a little bit more structure, stable and structure. Yeah, please. And it was for us. And it was. It definitely was more structured in the snooze line back then. You know, we were like, we were new Keller Williams in a new place. So it was really a great opportunity to be like the mouth, you know, like, this is Keller Williams. And I had lots of people coming to me, like, what is Keller Williams? And honestly, the Market center was struggling. There were like 12 people there. Oh, wow. And I took the role and worked for some amazing people that were in North Carolina. And we grew the office to about 135 very first year. It was amazing, right? And it was great. I mean, it was great. And then I found out I was pregnant again. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm going to do this and be a new team leader with another new baby. And I did it. So I'm just saying it's possible. It's possible, but. And it was wonderful. There's nothing. My youngest daughter, Austin, lives right here in Dallas, where I am with you today. And I get to see her today. And it's been wonderful. But they're grown now and both beautiful. Beautiful doing what they do. Both have their real estate license, but not practicing real estate. Yeah, but it's always there for them. I told them that. Absolutely. So anyway, so then I became the team leader and then North Carolina was not a place that my husband wanted to live. He was a doctor. Just the medicine. He just didn't want to do that anymore. So we went to Mega Camp.

[A]

Okay. And which, if you're listening, don't know. Mega Camp. It's Keller Williams convention.

[B]

That happens our convention in the. In the fall, I guess.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

It's not family reunion, but Mega Camp. Yeah, Sorry about that.

[A]

Always in Austin. Yeah.

[B]

So always in Austin and at San Antonio, now San Antonio. So we went to a friend's house that worked at Keller Williams and Mark Willis, who was back then, he was the president, and he said, what are you going to do? And I said, I guess I'm going to come back to Austin and be an agent. And he goes I need you to go to San Antonio and become my team leader there. And I said yes without even looking at it. Wow. It was a crazy move.

[A]

So you knew you loved the role at that point?

[B]

Yeah, I loved the role and I knew that if they were struggling, I thought I could bring what needed to bring. Right. To make it work. And it was a struggle. I was the seventh team leader in five years.

[A]

Oh, wow. So you had to build a lot of trust.

[B]

I little burnt. Yeah. I actually, when the AOC interviewed me, I had somebody stand up in the back of the room and say, what if we don't like her? And then Mark asked me to leave the room and I'd already been hired, so I'm like, ooh, that guy's not going to be around here very much longer.

[A]

Yeah, that's awkward.

[B]

And he, he actually is still with me and he's an investor in several of the Market Center.

[A]

Oh, that's a great story.

[B]

Yeah, he really, what he heard me say was I was going to be fair and we were gonna grow. We were gonna get to 200 agents and they were like, she's crazy. And I said, I'm gonna make a five year commitment. She's crazy. I did make the five year commitment. I actually made 15. Wow.

[A]

Which in this role is a really long time. It is a long being in the team leader role.

[B]

But I will tell you if you just stick with it. Linda McKissick told me something just recently. Cause we're doing the growth call on the 23rd together and she's like, I always thought I was at the 50 yard line, but I was actually on the 5. I just needed to push a little bit harder and I made it. I wasn't as far away as I thought I could be. I just had to stick. Because right now we're in some different times, right? Yeah. Growth is hard. Market's tough. We have a lot of competition, but we still have the best of everything. We just have to remember that and get all those. The negativity. It's really easy to be like unhappy and negative right now. I do it myself. Been reminded of it just recently and I, you know what? It's right. I have to stop. Especially when you're in a leadership position, right? Yeah. You gotta lead by example and push through. So getting through the tough times could maybe get you to the best part, right? The best. Yeah.

[A]

I think so many times we just stop too soon. Right before the breakthrough, Right?

[B]

Right before the breakthrough. Yeah. Stop. And if you just would have stayed Know the what ifs. You don't ever have to say, what if. You made it, you did it. But fast forward was a team leader, became an op, became a regional director along the way, and it's just been in leadership ever since.

[A]

So when did you first. Was it as a child or when did you first see yourself as a leader? Because being a producer is different than being a leader and it's a, it's a developed skill set, but you have to have a heart for it. So when did you first identify that? Okay, would you play volleyball like your girls?

[B]

Like the girls. And I believe that that was probably where I, that was the learning point where I just was, we were not losing. Okay. We were not losing to that great team that we were going to play. We were not losing at Nebraska. We were going to win. We were going to. We were. You have to be a leader. And sometimes you would deal with people that are like, just want to give up. Yeah. And when you're on a team, which you have to stick together and you have to lead there, there can be more than one leader. But I always felt like I picked up the pieces and said, no, we're going to do this, we're going to do this.

[A]

So as a team leader, I want to talk about that specific role. And again, if you're listening to this and you're not with Keller Williams, so the team leader is the leader of the, of the office or the market center, primarily. Primary role is to recruit, hire top talent, grow the office, build culture, retain your top people, build a team around that. That really delivers the value proposition. What do you think your secret sauce was that made you one of the best to ever do the role?

[B]

Relationships come first.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love my people. I still, I mean, that's my thing. It's what? That's why I'm here with you. Yeah. I love you. I see what you do. And I want to give back. But the fact is, is that building relationships that last and matter, like, I can honestly say my best friends for my entire life are at this company.

[A]

Yeah. You know, really special.

[B]

It is.

[A]

But you have to work for that.

[B]

You do.

[A]

I do that too.

[B]

And you make mistakes. Yeah, I've made tons of mistakes. And you know what? I owned it. I did a really, really bad thing as a team leader one time through an email, and I thought for sure it was going to be the career ending moment for me and I owned it. Yeah. And I actually had more buy in at that point because I just said it was my fault. I did it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So you have to own it. You got to care about your people, like the people in your market centers, your. I like to call them, staff, your leadership team, you gotta. You gotta love on them, especially right now. Yeah, it's really hard. They're tired, too. Um, people get tired when, you know, times are tough, drama's high. You know, we always say that when production's low, drama's high. And dealing with the drama sometimes can bring it into your own life, and you gotta. You gotta realize it and you gotta shake it off. But I think the stronger relationships that you build within will get you through any tough times. And it's not just a churn and burn number. You know, we don't keep everybody. We lose people, but everybody loses people. Yeah. And we're not the ones to decide if that was the right decision for them or not. And if you have a relationship, it goes past being just in business together. That's good advice.

[A]

I think that's one of the hardest things for new team leaders, and I think it's new leaders, agents that are hiring for their team. Any kind of leadership role where you have that fear of investing in people, putting your heart and soul, and then people leave. But I do think the longer you do this, you do realize that the relationship withstands that. And a lot of times, if you allow them to leave without burning a bridge, they come back 100% best thing. Right. That's one of the biggest wins as a team leader. One of my favorite things. And they don't always come back. No, but sometimes they do.

[B]

But they remember how they were treated going out there. Yeah. And I always tell everybody that, you know, you can be mad because it's hurtful. It's. You are very vulnerable to people. You open up, you give them, you bring them into your home, you tell them things, and then next thing you know, they're leaving. And you know what? Again, it's not our decision. Decide that's what's best for them. Love them on the way out. And they're never going to forgive that, to forget that. They're going to say, you know, what was treated with respect and dignity, respected my decision. May not have liked it and knew it was most likely going to be a mistake, but if it wasn't, good for them. Yeah, but. But they definitely had the option, the way they left, to come back. And that is had it happen many times. So have you, and it's a great thing. But don't just think they're your friend or your relationship because they're in your market center or in your world. Stay in touch with them. Yeah. Stay in touch with them and show them that you care. Recognize their successes after they're gone because they may not even be getting that where they are.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Well.

[A]

And I think as a leader, it's what keeps our own hearts soft, is to make sure that we're not getting bitter and jaded by the. By the leadership journey. I think it's. It's partly why a lot of people don't want to step into that.

[B]

Is.

[A]

Is that fear of getting burned or of getting hurt? I can't tell you how many agents, when they're talking about building a team, just so fearful that they're going to invest and then somebody's going to turn around and leave. And I tell them they might, they might, and some will, and it's okay. You really. Yeah, it really is.

[B]

Okay. The honesty part is sometimes hard because you're telling them something they absolutely don't want to hear. But you know that the likelihood of it's going to happen is. Yeah. Happen. And you're there for them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're there to listen.

[A]

Right. So what do you think is something that you. You really learned that you saw leadership very different at the beginning of your leadership journey than what you do now? What has time taught you? Just time. Developing people and building relationships.

[B]

And what you just said is you're not going to be able to keep everybody. Yeah. You're going to lose people. People are going to move on. They're going to see a better opportunity in their eyes. You can't be everything to everybody.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you really. And I think in the beginning, you. You do, and you have all this energy and just. And you realize that really. I learned in the beginning. I've learned since the beginning. Talking less is actually a little bit easier to. For anybody. And let's just. Listening. Listening becomes the leadership, I think, skill. Being a good listener and not judging and not finishing people's sentences and understanding that people have bad days. I have bad days. I think I've become a little bit bitter and jaded sometimes. And I don't like that. And you don't even realize it until somebody says something to you and you're like, what's wrong with you? Right. Yeah. And you just. We're all feeling the weight. And as a leader, you can't show that as much as somebody else can. You gotta be there. You gotta lead by example. And so I think in the beginning, it was all. Everything was new and so you thought everything was gonna work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think over time, you realize it's okay to try new things and to do new things, introduce new things. But you really, when you learn what works, stick with that. Remember, Gary, mastery. You can't be the master of everything, so you have to continue to learn, too. I think that's the other thing, is that if you don't stay in it, you're out of it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's been a challenge lately because of everything that's going on. Yeah.

[A]

Well, and it's as a leader, I think one of the things I've realized, and I haven't been in this journey as long as you have by any means, but you realize that a bad day doesn't define you, nor does the good day.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You have good seasons and you have bad seasons. But what makes the career or what makes the leader, what develops our character is all of it together. The success and the failure is the same coin. It's just the other side of it. You don't have one without the other. You don't have a great year without a year that you struggle. And I think when you've been in a role for a while or on a leadership track for a while, you start to see the ebbs and flows of that. Right. Which. Which helps you with some resilience and some longevity in it because you're a little bit less prideful in the good times and you're a little bit less defeated in the bad.

[B]

Right. It kind of evens it out. You can't grow.

[A]

Yeah. So true.

[B]

And that's one thing that I had to learn. I'm like, oh, it didn't work. And then like, it's okay. Yeah, just do it again. Yeah. Fail forward. Because you always learn. So if you're failing, you're really not failing. You might just be in a long learning process.

[A]

We might be on year six years, graduate.

[B]

Yeah. But I mean. And it's okay. But giving up. Yeah. It's not going to solve anything.

[A]

That's so true.

[B]

Not going to solve. Ask for help. Ask somebody else's advice. We have so many people in this industry that we could pick up the phone and call and you have to be humble enough to ask. You don't. I'm always asking for help. What would you do? I've called you. What could you do? It's okay.

[A]

Yeah, that's right.

[B]

I'm pretty sure the biggest head leaders in this world ask for help. And if they don't, it may not be their best interest for them right now because we all. We all need help. Yeah. I think Gary asked for help. You know, I mean everybody asks for help. So it's okay. It's good.

[A]

So I want to kind of go back to something you had mentioned. So when you had come into the San Antonio Market center and your agent leaders were there kind of checking you out. Unsure and just the building of trust that a leader has to do and has to continue to do because trust can be hard to develop. It's easy to lose. What do you think are some of the intentional things that you do as a leader to build and keep trust?

[B]

I can give you an example. What happened there. That we had not been a very profitable office. And so there was not profit share and we actually profit shared. Like the second month I was there and I had some agents come to me and they said I know that some people I recruited had closings and I didn't get any profit share. And so I had to go look through their files and I found out that previous leadership had named every person in their downline instead of their profit share. And so I made a commitment that I would replace every single person that the recruit. Wow. Back and I did that. Wow. And because I knew well I wasn't winning with these people. Great anyway. Because they're like this lady's not going to stay. She's going to leave to find out what a mess it is. She's not going to be committed. I thought if I could do one thing and the other thing that I

[A]

think which is so cool. I just want to stop down on that because that wasn't your mistake. That wasn't your fault. That wasn't your error. But as a leader you took the responsibility for the effect that somebody that you didn't even know or have you know, that wasn't really anything to do with you. And you made that right. That's incredible. I would imagine they told that story then for you.

[B]

I've had. There's. So we just had our awards banquet.

[A]

They should. If they're not, they absolutely should be telling.

[B]

We used to have 40 year pins. That's cool. At the Market Center. That's. How long is. Some of those people have been with us. 40, 35 years. And some of those people would tell that story. They. They didn't even know how it could be. And it wasn't just me. I didn't do it by myself. We did it with the team and we did it with the agents. We got behind it. We. I love to have fun yeah. And so we ended up just celebrating everything. We just. It didn't matter what it was. We needed some celebration. And so the earning their trust is one listening and never being too busy. Even though you are. Right. We have to sometimes. I mean, people follow you to the bathroom. They need your time. They want to talk to you. So you come on, walk with me. Let's go. That I showed up every day and regardless of how I was feeling, you show up every day and you had fun with them. You listened and followed through. That was one thing that I remember that people. Are you really going to get back to me? And I had to make a mental note and I write things down because if I don't. But I did the best I could. And I do believe that that created a lot of trust. Because there's nothing worse than being let down by a promise. And under promising and over delivering has always been work for anybody, you know, and just being happy. Yeah. I always tell people that work with me now. I said, if you're having a bad day, just don't come to work. It's okay. It's okay. Yeah. Because nobody wants to be around that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so, you know, maybe some days I need to stay home too. Right. You know, it's just. It's okay. You can't be that person all the time. But it's very noticeable when you're not. Yeah.

[A]

You have to intentionally show up how you want.

[B]

How do you want to show up? Yeah. Oh, I love that you mentioned a

[A]

little bit about leadership mistakes. So talk about. I think for some leaders and you touched on this a little bit about asking for help. Because I do think sometimes in leadership we think we have to be strong. We think we have to have it all together. Um, and leadership can be lonely. I believe if we're lonely as leaders, we're doing this wrong. But I do think that is a legitimate journey of a lot of leaders is they feel alone. So talk about that a little bit. Did you ever feel or experience that or what would you say to a leader that. That feels alone in the journey?

[B]

I would say absolutely. There's. I agree with what you said. You're maybe not doing it right. You're just not talking to the right people or asking for the right help. Because it is lonely. It can be lonely at the top. You know, it's a saying. Yeah. Lonely at the top. Does it have to be lonely at the top? A lot of times life effects are happening and when you see that people are disengaged, there's probably something else there. It may not even be anything to do with work. Yeah. So you have to, like, inspect, like, what's going on? I was told one time I had an agent that came in and she just lit me up mad. And I remember I called Mark and I said, I'm gonna lose her. And he goes, no, you're not. She got it out. Now if she doesn't, she didn't show up, and her mailbox is full and she's not sitting in the front row at the team meeting. You have a problem. She just wanted to be heard. So I remembered that from ever that would say, you know what? Just listen. Yeah, it's listening. And. But mistake would be not listening and not taking. Not returning the phone call. Not now. We just text. Right.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I sit in the car and I try and everything. Did I answer Everybody I look back through. When you miss one, you're like, oh, my gosh. Or you thought you answered and you forgot to hit send.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think that's what it is. It's just in our world right now, there's a lot of loneliness for a lot of different things, different reasons. And I think we just have to be very mindful of how people are showing up. And if it's out of the norm, you need to ask questions. And it's your duty as a leader to go find out if there's something they need. And if they say they're fine, you gotta respect that and then check in again. Yeah. Because they may not be willing to say it right now, but in time they will. If you have the trust.

[A]

That's so good. Because I do think sometimes we think everything is about us, and so somebody's acting off or whatever, and we think, oh, it must be about, they're upset with me, or they're disengaged with the market center. And in reality, life is just happening. And if we'll get, like you said, ask questions and listen to people, we can find out really what's happening.

[B]

I think so. Like I said, listening is a tool. It's a gift too.

[A]

So what do you think leaders are facing? Not necessarily in the real estate industry or maybe in the real estate industry, but what do you think the biggest challenges are now for leaders? Different than even 10 years ago.

[B]

Technology, the way people communicate, AI, it's the curve, I think, bigger than we've ever seen. You know the iPhone. Yeah. That was like, oh, I'm never gonna be able to use that. Now I'd like, freak out looking for it. And I'm on it, talking on it, and I can't find my phone. Talking to you on it. I'm like, I can't find my phone and on it. You know, that kind of stuff that there's so much, there's so many options now. Social media, social media has changed our world. If I could make one, like comment, that biggest change that I've seen in my lifetime is with social media and what happens there, how fast the word can get out. Remember before we even had emails, I mean, what did we do? We just picked up the phone. Yeah. Or only communication 20 times before somebody.

[A]

You got ahold of somebody. Right.

[B]

Means of communication was the phone or writing a letter. Right. Mailing it. I mean, you mail something, people look at you like you're on your horse and buggy. Yeah. But I use. I still mail stuff. I do. But I'm just saying I think the biggest change has been what is available for us to communicate, to deliver. And I think that has been the biggest curve and the biggest change. And I think it's what's created a lot of disengagement. Being in front of people is not as important as it used to be. And I still think it's the most effective. It's just like when I just said mail something. Yeah. Handwritten mail is still known to be the first thing opened when you go through your mail. It is. Yeah.

[A]

You know, I still save if somebody sells me a hand reach note.

[B]

I have boxes of thank you cards for the teaching or just the. From agents. And I won't get rid of them. Yeah, I won't.

[A]

It's your rainy day box.

[B]

It is. I know.

[A]

Having a bad day or bad leader day.

[B]

Sticky notes.

[A]

Why am I doing this?

[B]

We have sticky notes that somebody might just stick on your computer. It says thank you and I don't even know who it was from, but I don't get rid of it because somebody took the time to do it. Yeah. So I'm very intentional on doing that. Not wish I could do better, I need to do better. But writing notes and making sure you tell people. Give gratitude because it is the best thing you can do is by showing gratitude to somebody. Big or small.

[A]

Specific gratitude I think is so powerful. So what do you think separates leaders who laughs from those who burn out? What's the secret to running the long race?

[B]

Be willing to fail. Accepting the fact that you can't do everything and asking for help. And again, it's not going to be perfect and rosy all the time. We need these bad Times to make us realize that there's other ways of doing things. You can't do the same thing. I was just talking to somebody on the phone. I said, the things that worked for us seven years ago are not working for us now. Maybe four years ago. Yeah. We have to keep reinventing ourselves and reinventing who we are, how we communicate, how we show up. But realizing that a lot of in person things are gone. I mean, there's cars out there driving without drivers. These things freak me.

[A]

I saw those in Atlanta for the first time.

[B]

They're all over the place. Crazy to me and it's insane to me. But that's. You know, the Jetsons was a real thing. The cartoon. I think I loved the Jetsons.

[A]

I know Rick is laughing.

[B]

Probably cause he is. We watch the Jetsons. I mean, seriously, there's robots. No. They're gonna do everything for you. Yeah. Ilana's designing a robot that can be your do everything and only has to be down asleep two hours a day. So just. I think that that's it. It's the. You have to. You have to show up in a different way sometimes. I think that like our kids, they communicate way different than we did. They do, you know, But I still think face to face is still the thing. I still believe that getting people engaged with you personally is still the most powerful gift we have. Yeah.

[A]

So what does leadership taught you about yourself?

[B]

I can be very hard on myself that, you know, you, you want to do everything, that there are people that can do better than you and you, that maybe if you just would give it up, they could do more. And sometimes it's hard. It's your identity. Yeah. I think that leadership, when you. I guess what it's done for me though too is that just like what I said is you can change somebody's life by just having a conversation with them and just thinking. It's very powerful. I remember that I realized that I stood up in front of a group of people one day and I said, I need your help. And they were shocked that I needed their help because they thought, oh, she can do anything. You know, that's our leader. Leaders still need help. And so I believe that, that you're never at the absolute pinnacle. There's always somebody that can do something else. So I think as being in leadership, I've realized that, boy, there's. I thought I did a lot of really great things and I see it be done at even a higher level. And you need to be happy for those people. Yeah.

[A]

They only can Build upon the floor of the people that go before them.

[B]

Right. So you, as a leader, you may have set that threshold, but then you've got somebody eager to beat it and go even farther, and then there'll be a person that wants to beat that threshold. And I think that's where we think about. I mean, yes, we're talking about the real estate industry, but think about production people used to be like, we celebrated bronze medal winners, and we still do, but they don't walk the stage. We couldn't let that many people.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's. The numbers are so staggering and it's so amazing. And I'm like. I'm, like, in awe of those people.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How hard they have to work to do that number of transactions and that volume. When I thought, oh, what I did was great. And now that's being done monthly or weekly, you know.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

So, I mean, I think that that's where you see the evolution of the greatness and the threshold. It's just no different than what money we make now. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. You know, when we got out of college, everybody said, oh, if I could just make this much money, I would just be. Have everything. And then times change. Yeah. You realize you need more. Your perspective kind of ships with them.

[A]

So what do you want your leadership legacy to be, Wendy? You want to be known for?

[B]

Hmm. I would say just stick. Sticking with it, listening, caring about people, pouring into others. I love to teach. I love to see. I love to see a room full of new people, whether they're agents or team leaders or whatever role they have, Know that you know what they want and just want to see them succeed and go. Go for it and not be. Be known as the person that stifled anybody, but just encouragement and committed. Committed would probably be the biggest word. Committed. Love that.

[A]

So what do you think the biggest upside of a leadership journey has been for you personally?

[B]

The life that you can live. It's endless. I mean, it's. You can do whatever you want to do. And I think the biggest upside for me is the amount of that you can give back. I never in my life thought you could give back what I can give back now. And it's not about always what, you won't ever be remembered for what you did, but it's what, you know, what you did for a career, but what did you do for others, And I think that's what you get remembered for. It's not about what you drove or where you live or how much money you had, but what did you do for others around you? And trust me, I could do a lot more, and I'm going to be committed to doing that going forward. But I have been able to do things that I never, ever thought I could do, and I think that's the biggest.

[A]

A box of thank yous.

[B]

The box of thank yous. And when I think about the box of thank yous, I need to make sure my box of thank yous that I give out is bigger than the ones that I've received. Yeah. But the upside to leadership is endless. I think you can always. Even if you're not striving for more, the more you give, it always seems to come back. Yeah, it always seems to come back.

[A]

Well, if you're going to go on a leadership journey, you're going to have to grow personally.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you have to continue to grow personally.

[B]

And you'll stumble and you'll stumble, and you'll take a few steps back and go, okay, it's decision time. Do I still want to do this, or do I want to just say, this is it for me? So I think you have to make that decision, and you will struggle with that sometimes.

[A]

So give a piece of advice to somebody who is leading now and feels like giving up, throwing in the towel and maybe saying, I'm not cut out for this. Maybe I don't have what it takes, or maybe this isn't worth it. What advice would you give them right now?

[B]

Go look in the mirror and ask why? What do I not have that I can just give a little bit more? Who have I not asked that could maybe help me get there? And if I didn't do this anymore, what would I do? And how happy would you be? Yeah. Because there were days, not gonna lie to you. I do not want to do this anymore. And then I thought, what I do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, one, I love it. Just not loving it today.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And maybe I didn't love it this week or maybe it's been a bad month. Mm. But if I actually gave up, how would that affect the people around me? Because I think that that's probably where I'm at right now. It's not so much for me. I feel like I've met some. Most of my goals. Of course, you always have bigger goals, but what would it do? What letdown would it be for some people that are waiting for that bit of advice or just that hand to give them or that call that's right there that they couldn't do that anymore? What would that feel like for Me. And I think that's it.

[A]

Well, I just want to tell you, express gratitude, because our company needs leaders like you. You lead with so much heart. And it's been. The first time I met you was when you came and taught a class. We were talking about this the other day. Which one it was. It was recruiting great agents, maybe. Um, so that was the first time that I had really encountered you. And I thought, I want to be a team leader like that. Because I could tell that you loved your people, that you. You did the role to serve others, that you had great fulfillment, not in just the real estate side of it or the numbers or all of the things, but that you really wanted to. To build something that made a difference in people's lives long term. And I said, that's the kind of. That's the kind of team leader I want to be. And so I just want to thank you for being such a model of that to me personally. And in our company, we need all over the world and everything, we need leaders that lead with heart, that care about people first and that are willing to go through the hard days not just for themselves, but because they're committed to the people that they're serving. That's such a powerful thing.

[B]

And I would like to comment on that. Leading with your heart is not the easiest way to lead because your heart can get broken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Empathy is just something that we need right now. You have to listen and you have to have empathy. Everybody has a bad day. Yeah. But when you leave with your heart, you can become actually more hurt than if you didn't.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But it's okay because it will mend and people see what you did. But it is easy to get even more emotionally hurt when you do leave with your heart because you know that it is going to get broken. That's okay because it will not kill you. But empathy is a huge gift. And I think as a leader, if you don't have empathy and you understand that you have to listen to the people that are hurting and also listen to the people that are winning and not have judgment. It's hard, but it's actually what really goes. People remember that the most. And you are such an inspiration to so many. And you. You're just. You're an amazing leader and people recognize it. And I'm. It was honored here with you today. My goodness.

[A]

Well, thank you for driving all the way up from San Antonio. You're going to be with us tomorrow at a regional awards. So this worked out. Worked out perfectly. But thank you. For today. Thank you for investing in us and listeners. As always, go to teresafla.com and subscribe so I can send you extra good things via email and all of that. But as always, when you invest in your personal growth every single day, it's going to yield you great returns. Leaders, keep fighting the fight. Do not give up. There is a huge upside for you. See you next week.