A (1:48)

Yeah. The traditional French recipes are unpitted cherries. Cause they think that the, you know, cherry noyeau contributes a certain je ne.

C (1:56)

Sais quoi to the clafout to say choking.

A (1:59)

Choking. Yeah, I know you're a safety first baker. So I was like, wow, that's what you chose to bake with your needs?

C (2:07)

I think actually it was a blueberry club, actually. Yeah. But she's very young and I don't know, maybe she didn't like the experience because at some point, like before we could serve the dessert, she threw the cherry clout off the counter and it smashed on the floor, so.

A (2:21)

Oh, no.

C (2:22)

Yeah. I mean, it was an accident.

A (2:24)

Oh, sure.

C (2:24)

Or was it? I don't know.

A (2:27)

Well, this is getting right to the heart of this. Like, this episode is about baking with children. I feel like, you know, it's like the warning that they Give you on the news stories. They're like, there is disturbing content ahead. So, like, this is an episode about baking with children. For a lot of people, the hardest part about baking with kids is this like the chaos. So I have two children, and they're not little children anymore. I have a 14 year old and a 12 year old. And for the longest time I had actually no interest at all in baking with them because they're both disasters. You know, like, they were like minorly interested, but I did nothing to like foster this because I was like, you're messy, you're slow, you like lick everything slow. You know, I think I was sort of missing like perhaps the point of the exercise, which is not like producing a perfect baked good, but like doing this thing together. So then about a year and a half ago, I started working on the manuscript for this kid's book for us. Sweet and salty. And I was like, I need to adjust my attitude, right? Like, I need to lend.

C (3:35)

You needed to gain some expertise in the field.

A (3:39)

And I felt like I needed to sort of like walk the talk right where I'm like, I really believe that teaching kids to bake and, you know, allowing kids to bake is a really important thing. And yet at the same time, I was like, not in my kitchen though, buddy. So I had to adjust my mindset. And so my 14 year old, still not super interested in baking, but my 12 year old, who was like 10 and 11, I was working on the book, got very into it and I just sort of had to like, you know, kind of chill out a little bit about, like, how did you get cocoa powder, like in every single drawer? Like when you were making those brownies? Like, how is that possible? Like, how did, like, why is there always an egg that ends up on the floor? You know, just like this stuff like that. But he's very into it, which is heartwarming. And he told me the other day he was making something that he's really gotten into making are the. We have these quesadilla toad najols in the kids book. So it's a cheese quesadilla with a hole in the center that you crack an egg into. So he's been making these and I have made probably, I would say conservatively, a thousand toad naholes for my children over the last 14 years.

C (4:47)

You know, it's a great. I mean, it's one of the perfect foods.

A (4:50)

And so he was, you know, making it for himself for the first time, which is great. And I was like, real puffed up about it, you know, and then he was like, yeah, it's great. I learned how to make these on TikTok.

C (5:01)

What?

A (5:03)

And not King Arthur's TikTok. Just like, I don't even. They don't even have TikTok. I didn't think. But somehow he has found a way. And he is convinced now that, like, it is in fact TikTok that has taught him how to bake and cook.

C (5:18)

Oh, exactly. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's not the osmosis. No.

A (5:22)

But that's just. That's life changing life.

C (5:26)

Being raised on TikTok.

A (5:28)

It's truly.

C (5:29)

I gotta say, the stories you've told about your sons as you've written the book have been so cute. And so, I don't know, it's sort of heartwarming in a way, and really gave me a confidence that this book was gonna work, you know?

A (5:42)

Yeah, I. I was actually. You know, it's exciting because they had sort of watched the process and baked along with me as I was working on the book. But then, you know, you get the first real copy of the book. And the first thing he wanted to make were the pupooses. So the book is split in half. Like half sweet recipes, half salty recipes, as the name suggests. And I was so surprised. Cause I thought he was gonna go right for like the frosted sprinkled whatever. But we made pupusas together. He was so excited about, like, contributing this thing to the meal. Like, he was so proud of it. He was so into it. And he kept being like, I made. You know, like, I made this thing. And I think that's actually one of the distinguishing factors between kids baking and adults baking. You know, an adult bakes something for a dinner party, and they're all like, oh, sorry, it's not perfect. Or like, I hope you like apples. Or like, I might have over baked a little bit. Like, yeah. And kids are like, I made this thing. This thing is awesome. Look at how great I am. It's delicious. You know, they're like going around from plate to plate, like, go, do you want another slice? Like, it's so sweet. And I was like, there's something for. For adults to learn here that like, just, you know, like, such confidence and such pride in it.

C (6:52)

Totally. Yeah. When do we learn self deprecation? I mean, I feel like I came out of the womb making jokes about myself, but I love that we could all. Totally. We should all learn from that. And I also just want to say, in defense of your son, that I, a man in his 40s. When I bake, after I bake, I find piles of spices in every drawer as well. And I have no idea, no idea how they get there.

A (7:20)

Who knows what happens? You're in a fugue state. And also, just seeing kids cook and bake, I think is great for a lot of reasons. Like, I think people are always like, oh, baking is a great way to teach math and teach chemistry and, like.

D (7:33)

Yeah.

A (7:33)

But I think there is this effort to, like, sort of legitimize kids baking for, like, a learning opportunity. But I think, like, we're sort of missing the point of what they're actually learning through that. And I think, yeah, sure, they can, like, do some fractions when they are measuring things. And yes, they can, like, learn how to use a scale. Like, all of those are. Are good skills. But I think there's that sort of, like, intangible. It's like that feeling that you get when you bake something for somebody that you care about, and kids pick that up really quickly. Like, that is a good, good feeling. And so, like, the caring for other people piece, I think gets sort of lost in the, like, why teach kids to bake? But actually, I think that's sort of like, that's. That's the thing, right?

C (8:12)

Totally.

A (8:13)

If you can tolerate the mess and the hassle of baking and you can let them, like, do it on their own. Like, you're giving them this huge gift, which then, you know, ideally ends up with, like, them baking you something really tasty. It comes back to you.

C (8:28)

I think that I can't believe how much I'm resonating with what you said, because it's so earnest, and I. And I usually reject anything. Ernest.

A (8:35)

I know, but it's out of character for me, too.

C (8:38)

But. But it really is true. I mean, like, I think you're so right. Like, I have three. Three nephews and two nieces. And when I think about what I want them. What I want for them in their lives as they become adults, I can list a few things. You know, I want them to be. I want them to be good readers. Right? I want them to understand the power of literature. And I want them to be artists. I want them all to be artists. Starving artists. I'm always like, you're into science. No, no, no. Go, go, Go to the arts.

A (9:05)

Cook.

C (9:05)

And that they bake and that they understand the value of that. The power of cooking for others, but also cooking for yourself, too. And something that I've thought about a lot in my career and done research on is how Cooking is on the decline. It's just a good skill to have, you know, to be able to bake for yourself, to know how to do this. But also, it enriches your life. And like you said, it enriches the life of everybody around you, particularly your gay uncle, who doesn't have kids and is going to need to be fed when he's 80.

A (9:35)

Totally. I feel like when I was first starting to bake, I was baking this brownie recipe from Seventeen magazine, which I probably got from a babysitter. So I baked these brownies, and I probably did, like, every single error known to humankind. Like, I would forget the eggs. I would like double the salt. But, you know, I tell you what, like, you only do them once. And I think that is actually for the parents and caregivers out there who are listening to this, who are. Who are like me, that are just like. The idea of relinquishing control in your kitchen feels very uncomfortable. Like, that is the whole thing. I think we totally underestimate, you know, how competent kids can be. If you want to inspire future bakers, like, you kind of have to let them do it. Like, they're gonna make mistakes, they're gonna burn their fingers, they're gonna lick the bowl, they're gonna make a mess. But you're running. You're sort of running the long game, right? Like, and, you know, and I'm not the only person that feels this way. Like, in today's episode, you know, I talked to lots of other parent bakers putting this of special guest Sam Sanivaratne, writer for the New York Times, cookbook, author, also a parent, joining us to talk about baking with kids because she is a total pro. And then we also have. I'm really excited about this. All of our questions today are actually from kids. We put out a call to the children to ask us of America.

C (11:01)

The children of America.

A (11:02)

The children of America. So lots more to get into here. But first up, I'm going to talk to Sam a little bit about her experience baking with kids.

C (11:11)

I love Sam. Sam is an old college classmate of mine. Fun fact. Oh, that's a fun fact. And we bake her recipes in my house all the time. She's such a great recipe developer, such a great writer. So lovely to talk to. I can't wait to hear this conversation.

A (11:29)

Samantha Senavaratnay is a baker, food stylist, and recipe developer, and the author of four cookbooks, including her latest, Bakesmart, a baking book that is cleverly organized by ingredient and includes Such bangers as Maple Tahini Chocolate Skillet cake recipe link in the show notes. I first got to know Sam through a show she hosted on Food52 called Cook and a Half, where she cooked with her young son Artie and demonstrated what I can only call an enviable amount of patience. So she's joining me now to talk about the highs and lows of baking with children. Sam, welcome to Things Bakers Know. You have a son. How old is he now?

D (12:08)

He is eight. He just turned eight this summer.

A (12:11)

Okay. Wow. Okay. How old was he when you started doing the Cook and a half series on Food52?

D (12:16)

He was really little. I want to say. He was like 4. Maybe he was little.

A (12:20)

And I'm sure there are a lot of parents that are listening to this that are thinking, like, I want my kid to have this skill. And yet, and yet, Sam, like, how do I do this without, like, totally, like, losing my, my, my marbles?

D (12:34)

That's a great question. I have lost my marbles many a time. So don't worry if you do. When we set aside a time to bake, it's not like a weeknight. We don't have anything else to do. You can't have any time parameters or mess parameters. You know, it's like you have to decide that this is what we're doing and it's gonna be a disaster with us. You know, like, there's gonna be flour everywhere. It's like, oh, Saturday, we'll do a baking project together, and that's what we'll do. But it's not just anytime you want to get in the kitchen and make a mess.

A (13:10)

Right. For parents that are interested, like, who want to get their kids into baking, do you have, you know, recipes or types of recipes that you recommend that they start with? Like, do you think they should start with mixes?

D (13:24)

I do not think mixes are necessary.

A (13:26)

Yeah.

D (13:27)

Frankly. Because what's a mix? It's just the dry ingredients.

A (13:30)

Yeah.

D (13:31)

Measured for you. As long as you have the ingredients in your house. I don't think mixes actually give you that much more convenience if you're making like an easy one bowl cake or like, you know, a simple brownie or blondie or something like that. And that's where I would start with kids. Those are the things that Arthur really likes to bake because it's like instant gratification, low effort, high reward. Yeah. You don't need that much. So as far as recipes go, like those recipes that have, like, limited ingredients, one pan, you know, not many bells and whistles just so that you can eat the thing fast.

A (14:03)

Yeah. I mean, this is probably not a fair question because I think kids are so different. Like, the spectrum of ability is so different. But, like, do you have a sense of, like, is there a great age to get kids started baking and cooking?

D (14:16)

Like, I mean, as soon as they want to? I think as early and as soon as they want to. Obviously it's going to be a different experience with a 3 year old versus a 10 year old. But yeah, you know, I think building an interest is. Starts young. I mean, and I'm lucky because I think my kiddo wanted to do it because he saw me doing it and just wanted to be with me. So there's that.

A (14:37)

What do you think? I mean, we've talked around this a little bit, but, like, what do you think are the sort of, like, best and worst things about baking with kids?

D (14:47)

Oh, my God. Well, I'm like, all the hard things are coming to my mind first. Yeah, I'm gonna put a positive spin on it. First, he's pretty picky. Now he's in a real picky phase. So I think I'm trying to think about, like, how are we gonna address that moving forward? And I think cooking and baking together might help us. Like, I started getting him to like, look through cookbooks and say, what do you want for dinner this week?

A (15:10)

Yeah.

D (15:10)

Then I would make it because I was like, if you picked it, I'll make it. And then we'll. And you'll try it. And that works pretty well. But I think the next step of that is going through cookbooks, having him pick stuff that looks good and then we make it together.

A (15:24)

Yeah, I think that's true. I also appreciate that you call it a picky phase, because I think, you know, there are a lot of people that are like, oh, I have a picky eater. You know, like this label on your kid. And it's like, there are some times that, like, I don't know, as adults, you go through a phase where you're like, all, I want to eat this. Or there's definitely times that I'm like, you know what? I would like the ice cream. And I don't really feel like my dinner. Like, I think all the things that kids do that we're like, wringing our hands about are like, honestly, things that adults do too. And I just try not to give it too much fuel. Like if my kid, like both of them are, are now and always were like, decent eaters. And then we were at this restaurant a couple Weeks ago. And they had a crispy rice salad, which is the lowest hanging fruit. Like, it's fried rice. And he, like, refused to even take, like, a mouse bite of it. And I was, like, so frustrated by it. And then I was like, why do. Just because he doesn't want to do this in this moment does not forever mark him, you know? And so I think you have the right thought about this. It's like, you just keep showing up with the stuff.

D (16:24)

You're totally right. That sometimes all I want is, like, ice cream. And I indulge in that. Like, I just try to listen to my body. And so that's also what I'm trying to teach my kid, too, is, like, you have cues that you should listen to, and if you don't want to finish everything, that's okay.

A (16:42)

I think that's smart. And I think I remember some, like, when my kids were younger. Your kids age, like, somebody telling me that, like, you have to look at what they're eating over a week, you know, like, not over a day, because, like, that's, you know, always a little bit, like, who knows, you know? But if you sort of are looking at it with a slightly broader lens, I do think it shakes out. Hopefully.

D (17:02)

I don't know.

A (17:03)

We'll see.

D (17:04)

I don't know. It's only eight.

A (17:05)

So, like, we're gonna call you back in four years and just be like, oh, no. Get an update. Yeah. Does Arthur have things he wants to bake with you? Is there anything on the list that you guys are.

D (17:15)

Oh, good question. We do watch a lot of the, like, baking competition shows and stuff like that. And so he's always wanting to make some, like, over the top, you know, cake. Like, he was really into making a cake with a swimming pool in it. I mean, okay, if you really want.

A (17:37)

To, you can't, but did you do it? Did you make the swimming pool?

D (17:40)

No, we did, actually, because I was on a job as a judge of a baking show, and somebody had made, like, a big block of blue gelatin. So I took it home. And then we were. We did it because I was like, oh, I. I have the swimming pool already done.

A (17:56)

So you, like. Did you, like, cut out, like, some of the cake and put the gelatin. Oh, wow. I mean, that sounds pretty cool.

D (18:02)

It was a while ago, but it wasn't delicious. I mean, you don't want to eat that.

A (18:08)

I don't know. You seem like fun mom. I think, like, you say you're type A, but actually fun mom is coming out now. Well, Sam, thank you for making time to talk to us today. I feel like you and I have a lot more to say about what it is like to raise children, to bake with children, to cook with children.

D (18:25)

Well, I could talk about it forever.

A (18:26)

I know. And I think, you know, seeing you on the show with your son was totally an inspiration to me. And we are big fans of your work here at King Arthur and we do have have a few of your recipes. The Sunken Berry Almond Cake and the Maple Tahini Skillet Cake from your last book, Bakesmart, are both on the King Arthur website. So anyway, we'll put the links to both of those recipes in the show notes and a link to your website where people can see all of the cookbooks that you've written and maybe watch some episodes of you. It must be sweet now that your kid's older too, just to have like that archived footage of the tiny guy.

D (19:02)

I. It's so much stuff that you forget and then you watch and it's really, really sweet.

A (19:05)

I hope excited for people who haven't seen them before because, like, they're a very sweet thing to watch and I think hopefully will inspire some parents. Thanks, Sam. Appreciate you. Thank you.

D (19:15)

It was a pleasure.

A (19:25)

This episode is brought to you by Plugra Premium European Style Butter. Now, I'm a huge fan of Plugra butter and part of the reason I love it is because it's an 82% butterfat butter, which means it has more fat than standard butters, less water, and it makes your baked goods so delicious and tender. Buttery. It's my go to.

C (19:48)

I love Plugger butter for spreading on bread. It's so good that way. But I also like baking with it. I just baked a biscuit with it and that biscuit was so rich, so decadent. And then I put more Plugra on top of it.

A (20:00)

Double Plugra is the way to go. You can find Plugra at your grocery store. Look for it. We keep it in our fridge. You can keep it in yours.

C (20:07)

Look for Plugra wherever fine butters are sold.

A (20:17)

Got a kid in your life? Well, this episode is brought to you by our brand new kids baking book, Sweet and Salty. This is a cookbook designed for young bakers. It's full of fun, easy recipes, but also foundational lessons and techniques to encourage the young baker in your life to level up their skills. I had so much fun working on this one. And yes, I did make my kids help. Although they didn't wash a single dish.

C (20:41)

What's the point of even having Kids, they don't wash dishes. There is a chocolate peanut butter tart in this book that has the brilliant addition of corn flakes in it, making each bite, like crunchy and a little salty. Look, that is not just for kids. That's for adults. So I'm thrilled that this book is coming out into the world.

A (20:59)

You can find sweet and salty wherever books are sold or on our website, kingarthurbaking.com it's time for our next segment, Ask the Bakers. For Ask the Bakers. We want to hear from you. If you have a baking question for us, head to kingarthurbaking.com podcast to record a voice message and we may end up using it on the show. That's kingarthurbaking.com.

C (21:24)

And of course, if you have a baking question that simply cannot wait, you can always reach out to our baker's hotline via phone, email, or online chat. Just go to kingarthurbaking.com Bakers Hotline. That's Bakers Hotline. Or call us at 855-371-2253. That's 2253, as in bake.

A (21:48)

We've got questions today, and they're better than the usual questions, I think, because they're all questions from kid bakers, which I think is going to be especially fun.

C (21:56)

It's better because hopefully they'll be easier or maybe they're going to be much harder. I don't know. I'm nervous and excited. Let's see.

A (22:03)

I hope we don't get stumped by the under 10 set.

D (22:08)

Hi, my name is Carolyn and I'm five years old. And what, and I'm, and this is my question. What do we, what do we do to make muffins puff up?

A (22:25)

So cute. Five years old. See, that's what I'm talking about. Like already already getting interested in it. I don't know. Maybe their parent forced them to record this. Maybe the parents wondering, they're too embarrassed.

C (22:35)

To ask the parents. Like, I'm a terrible baker. Ask this question.

A (22:39)

So this is a good question and it's a good fundamental question for beginner bakers. Like, why do things puff up in the oven? Right. What makes baked goods go from batter to a beautifully ris finished thing? So in muffins, in most cases, you're going to use a chemical leavener. So that's either baking soda or baking powder or sometimes both of them together. Do you want to talk a little bit about the difference between baking soda and baking powder and why they work?

C (23:07)

Sure. And it is really an important lesson to learn. I think about this actually every time I reach for baking powder or baking soda just to make sure I'm reaching for the right one. Because if you it can mess up your bake. Baking soda is a chemical leavener that reacts to acid. And when you combine baking soda with an acid, it creates chemical reaction of carbon dioxide, which gives the baked goods a lift. The important thing to know is that baking powder already has baking soda in it.

A (23:36)

Right.

C (23:36)

And it's baking powder. It's baking soda plus an acid. You have a saying for this?

A (23:41)

Oh, I do, yeah. Powder for puff, soda for spread.

C (23:46)

Right. And if you have a recipe that has a lot of acid in it already, oftentimes you'll just see baking soda. So I'm always looking for where's the acid in the recipe? And if it's not there, then I know that I need to use baking powder because I need to put that acid in there. And acid can be sneaky in places.

A (24:03)

I was gonna say, when you're talking about acid, for a kid baker out there, you know, you might thinking, be thinking like, okay, what are things that are acidic? Okay, like lemon juice, vinegar, and those are examples. But also there's other things like that you might not think of as acidic that actually, when combined with baking soda will give you that same fizzy effervescence that carbon dioxide. And those include buttermilk, yogurt, molasses, brown sugar.

C (24:30)

Because brown sugar, because there's molasses in brown sugar.

A (24:33)

I feel like if you are a baker starting out, the most important thing is that you don't want to mix and match. Like, if a recipe calls for baking powder, you cannot just swap in baking soda. So you wanna make sure that you're reading the recipe all the way through and then you're going to the pantry and getting the correct one. Because they do perform really differently. You wanna pay particular attention to that. This poor five year old's like, I've already gone back to playing. So yeah, that's why muffins puff. Let's hear our next listener question. When our family makes banana bread, the middle is sometimes raw and the sides are brown. How can we change the middle so.

C (25:17)

That it's not raw?

A (25:19)

This has happened to me before. I think sometimes banana bread is like a big liar. You know, looks done. You're like, oh, it's so beautifully brown on the outside. And then you like, you cool it and the first slices are fine. And then you get to like the heart meat of it and it's like pudding.

C (25:40)

Oh, gosh.

A (25:41)

Yeah, that has definitely happened to me.

C (25:43)

So it's a thick batter. It requires a strong bake.

A (25:46)

Yeah. And that it has a very long bake time. Like, a lot of banana breads are like, 55 minutes to an hour or an hour plus. So we know banana bread has a fair amount of sugar in it. Like, bananas have a lot of sugar in it. And then you're adding sugar, you know, brown sugar or granulated sugar. So that means it's gonna brown in the oven pretty quickly. Right. Like, the exterior, anything that's exposed to the direct heat is gonna start to take on color pretty fast. So that's why you could look at it from the outside and say, like, oh, it's beautifully brown below the brown surface. It has not baked all the way through. So when I'm baking my banana bread, I'll bake it part of the way, and it'll start to get brown. And then I will cover my loaf pan, like, loosely tent it with some aluminum foil just to protect the top from browning more and give the center time to sort of catch up. So that's one tip that I think is helpful.

C (26:37)

I think that's a great tip. The other thing that I think is really notable here is the color of the pan. Because if you have. If you're using a dark pan that's gonna bake the sides of your banana bread or any loaf or cake, you're baking more quickly than a lighter colored pan. So if you're having this problem, try switching to a lighter colored pan, and you may find that you're able to get a fuller bake through the middle without the sides browning as much. You could also tent on a lighter colored pan and use both of these tips at the same time.

A (27:07)

Yeah, totally.

C (27:08)

I think for banana bread, like, just a skewer or a knife in the middle is a pretty good indication. But if you want to be super nerdy about it, which I know kids are just dying to be nerdy, that's all they want to be, right? Kids love being nerds. You can take the temperature, and the temperature you're looking for is 200, 205 degrees.

A (27:28)

And so when you're talking about taking the temperature, you would take a digital thermometer, and you would stick it right into the center of your head.

C (27:34)

You take it to the doctor, and the doctor says, open. Yeah. You take an instant read digital thermometer. You carefully take the banana bread out of the oven. It's gonna be hot. Use your oven mitts stick the thermometer in the middle of the cake about halfway down. It's kind of fun because you can notice on the digital read, cause it responds so quickly. As the probe is going into the cake, it'll change temperature. But you wanna kind of find the lowest temperature because. And that's gonna be the very middle of the cake. The top of the cake's gonna be a higher temperature, the bottom's gonna be a higher temperature. If you accidentally put it all the way down and you hit the pan, it's going to shoot up. You know, you're like, oh, my cake's 250 degrees. So try to find the middle where it's at the lowest and judge from there. And you're looking for around 200, 205 degrees.

A (28:18)

And you know, I think obviously the goal is always to bake your baked good fully. But as I said at the start of this question, like, I have encountered a problem where I get to the center and it's just like a little gooier than I want. And then I just toast those slices in a pan. I just griddle them up in some salted butter, turning it like a pancake. Which is a good tip anyway. Even if it, you know, your banana bread is fully baked, but especially good if you like have a little bit of, you know, sort of wetness in the center. So not all is lost if it's just like slightly under baked. Let's go to our next question. My mom's birthday is coming up, but she's gluten free. What did we make for her?

C (28:58)

Actually, this is a good question for you, Jessica, because do you want your kids to make something for you for your birthday? What do you like to have made for you on your birthday?

A (29:07)

Oh, this is like a real callback to our birthday cake episode. Oh, that's right.

C (29:11)

Right. You like a homemade cake no matter what, how it tastes?

A (29:16)

I do. I mean, I will say my children have never offered or attempted to make me a birthday cake and I feel fine about it. But last week, you know, my was my wife's birthday and I made the cake and then my son and a friend decorated the cake in the most like, Moorish. I sent you a photo.

C (29:36)

It's like, it was gorgeous.

A (29:38)

I mean, it was extra. There was like pipes they wanted to pipe, you know, so they got into that. I think kids are really into decorating, right? So there was like two colors of frosting and then like so many sprinkles. And also some flowers and then some candles and the Whole thing was like just so extra. It is a luminescent cake and I had to like sit on my hands while they did it because it was all so chaotic and there's still like sprinkles in the floorboards and everywhere else. But anyway, I think it is entirely possible to make a very good gluten free cake. And in fact, I think cakes take well. Like there are some things that are harder to make gluten free. Like, you know, I think there are challenges to making good gluten free bread, which we'll talk about, you know, later in this season. But cakes actually are not that hard to make gluten free. You can just use gluten free flour like our measure for measure and that you can use to make almost any cake gluten free. There's also gluten free cake mixes now out there.

C (30:41)

One of our mixes is a confetti cake. So it's like perfect for a birthday.

A (30:44)

Totally, totally. So I think you can actually make a very good gluten free cake just by swapping gluten free flour for all purpose flour and following a good gluten free cake recipe. So that's if you have your heart set on cake. I think that's a good path forward. Also, you know, we have a recipe in Sweet and Salty, the new kids book for these giant. They're like, you know, like baseball sized meringues that then we dust with fruit powder and they're really pretty. They're inspired by like the meringues that Odalnghi sells at their cafes in London. But you could also just make them like a little bit bigger and then serve them with like whipped cream and berries. Would be a really nice gluten free thing to do. I think the meringues are fun to make too. Like it's kind of magic to see egg whites and sugar transform into this amazing thing. Or you could even make like them bigger still and stack two of them, you know, and do a meringue cake which would be really fun too.

C (31:42)

Really fun.

A (31:43)

I mean there's always a hot fudge sundae which.

C (31:45)

Yes.

A (31:46)

You know, honestly, is it great? Or an ice cream cake. You know, you could use gluten free graham crackers or you know, store bought gluten free cookies to make a cookie crust and ice cream and hot fudge and whipped cream and still have the opportunity for sprinkles.

C (32:00)

So you could use gluten free graham crackers to make the s' mores Rice Krispie treats.

A (32:07)

Yeah.

C (32:08)

On our site that would Be amazing.

A (32:10)

In answering this question, I will say also, I feel like we sort of buried the lead, which is, it's very sweet that you're thinking about what to make your mom for her birthday and to think about what she might like. So you seem like a good kid. You should get more allowance.

C (32:24)

We should pay you. Yeah. Checks in the mail.

A (32:27)

Checks in the mail.

C (32:29)

Thanks for the question, kid. Every episode we like to check in with Jessica to see what wildly surprising and full throated opinions are in her head. A segment we lovingly call Jess Opinions. Jessica, I cannot wait to hear what is your kid centered Jess opinion this week?

A (32:50)

Man, I have many to choose from, but I think one of the things that's like ruining everything. Are kids menus ruining everything? Yeah, they're ruining.

C (33:00)

Okay. That's the problem with this country, kids menus.

A (33:04)

Well, hear me out. So my kids have gone to restaurants since they were little. They still go to restaurants with me. And like, I hate that there's not like a sweet spot between ordering a $40 entree for a kid. But it's always like chicken tenders, buttered noodles, spaghetti with red sauce. And I think these kids menus play into this idea of like, oh, all kids are gonna wanna eat is macaroni and cheese, chicken nuggets, spaghetti, whatever. And it becomes like this sort of snake eating its tail, right? And I just wish there was like a little bit more thought and care put into kids menus because I think a lot of kids will try things. They don't want like a giant portion of it, but they wanna. We're sort of encouraging kids to become pickier eaters or they don't get to participate fully in the restaurant experience because the offerings for them are really disappointing.

C (33:51)

Yeah, I think that's a great point.

A (33:53)

And you know, I say this from my experience. I worked as a elementary school lunch lady for a period of like three years when I live in San Francisco.

C (34:00)

One of my favorite facts about you.

A (34:01)

I know it is a fun fact, and I would have parents call me and they'd say like, how did you get so and so to eat tofu curry with vegetables? And I was like, dude, just exposure, right? So like, the more we're able to expose kids to good food, the more, you know, I think they will seek it out, which is again, like a gift to them for their lives. There's like an opportunity, many opportunities in the kids food space to just do something that's a little bit more thoughtful and dynamic.

C (34:26)

That's a great point. But listen, I was At Penn Station the other day, about to get on a two hour train and I was in the Pret a Manger, this little sandwich shop in Sichen and I was like, what can I get here? Like, I'm not going to get anything that smell like a tuna sandwich or something. I'm not going to get that and bring it on the train. Like I just was struggling and then I saw it, it was like pret for kids. It was bread, cheese and mayonnaise. And I was like, that's it. And I was really happy with that.

A (34:54)

So that's funny. What are you gonna bake this week, David?

C (34:59)

This week I'm working on my crackers because I mean, crackers seem like they should be a simple thing to make, but I've struggled with them to roll them out, they get sort of like burned on the edges and I don't know, I'm just. I wanna dial this in because I wanna use my sourdough discard and there's an easiest sourdough recipe I'm gonna start with.

A (35:16)

I think that's great also because store bought crackers are so expensive.

C (35:19)

How about you?

A (35:20)

I'm going back to, you know, I'm going back to my fall routine. We're just hanging on by a thread. Like kids are doing sports, they're just like, there's a lot happening and so.

C (35:29)

So it's time for croquenbuche.

A (35:31)

So yeah, it's time for a croquembouche. It's time for. Well, it's time for crispy cheesy pan pizza is what it's time for. Which is. Was our recipe of the year, you know, many years ago, but is pretty much a Friday night staple in our household. So I make the dough on Thursday, rests overnight and then Friday afternoon I pull it out. It's baked in a cast iron skillet. Our kids love it. It's just a nice sort of like way to like reset at the end of every week and. Yeah, and so that's what I'll be doing every Friday from now until, I don't know, next May probably.

C (36:06)

It's one of the best recipes that was ever developed if you haven't already made it.

A (36:10)

I feel excited for you to make it for the first time.

C (36:12)

And it's kid friendly and it's totally kid friendly.

A (36:15)

Kids love pizza. Anyway, as always, I appreciate all of our listeners out there. Thanks for tuning in and joining us here on Things Bakers know. Next week we'll be back with an episode all about gluten free bread. People have asked for it and we are delivering. It is possible to make gluten free bread. We're going to talk a lot about it. I'm excited about that one.

C (36:35)

I am too. And listen folks. Remember, please like and subscribe the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or whatever niche indie platform you're using to listen to your podcast. More power to you.

A (36:49)

And we LOVE a review. Leave us a review while you're there. Love a review. Love a review. Share an episode with a friend.

C (36:54)

We'll see you here back next week. And in the meantime, kids, number one rule. Follow the recipe. Things Bakers Know is hosted and executive produced by me, David Tumurkin and me Jessica Batalana. Rossi Nastapoulo is our senior producer, Chad Chanay is our producer and Marcus Bagala is our engineer. Original music by Megan and Marcus Begala.

A (37:18)

This episode featured cookbook author Samantha Senavaratne. Thank you Sam. You can learn more about her work@samanthasenavaratne.com and we will link that in the show notes.

C (37:29)

Things Bakers Know is a King Arthur Baking Company podcast.