Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: Chocolate, Explained (with Amy Guittard)

Air Date: November 3, 2025
Hosted by: Jessica Battilana & David Tamarkin
Special Guest: Amy Guittard (CMO, Guittard Chocolate)

Episode Overview

This episode explores the world of chocolate from its culinary uses in baking to its agricultural roots and economic impact. Hosts Jessica and David discuss their personal relationships with chocolate, favorite recipes, and answer listener baking questions. The highlight of the episode is an in-depth interview with Amy Guittard, who shares expert insights into chocolate production, quality, and industry trends. The episode also covers practical matters like working with different cocoa powders, achieving the perfect brownie crust, and the mysterious art of tempering chocolate. The conversation wraps up with spirited “chocolate opinions” and upcoming baking plans.

Main Segments & Key Insights

1. Chocolate: America's Favorite Treat

[00:41–06:26]

• Chocolate Consumption & Cultural Status

  • Jessica reveals the average American eats roughly 11 pounds of chocolate a year, totaling 2.8 billion pounds nationwide ([01:54]).
  • David shares childhood memories: premium Halloween candy (i.e., chocolate) was reserved for kids with better costumes ([04:31]).
  • Quote:

    "Chocolate is the premium." — David Tamarkin ([05:22])

• Versatility of Chocolate in Baking

  • Discussion on different forms: cocoa powder, nibs, dark, milk, and white chocolate.
  • Jessica: Prefers simple yet indulgent recipes highlighting great chocolate, like chocolate tart.
  • David: Recounts a DIY chocolate mousse “bar” at a party, emphasizing low-effort, high-reward treats ([07:38]).
  • Quote:

    "There is this amazing versatility to chocolate. Everything from cocoa powder to cacao nibs... Chocolate is a spectacular ingredient." — Jessica Battilana ([05:27])

2. Chocolate Deep Dive with Amy Guittard (Interview)

[10:22–20:27]

a) A Historic Chocolate Company

• Amy’s family story: Guittard Chocolate was founded during the Gold Rush by her ancestor who traded chocolate for mining supplies, pivoted to chocolate making and importing from France ([10:54], [11:03]).
• Quote:

  "Chocolate making is a grinding business, more or less." — Amy Guittard ([11:03])

b) How Chocolate Is Made: Bean to Bar Explained

• Cocoa is grown near the equator. Farmer partnerships and fermentation are crucial for flavor ([12:28]).
• Beans are fermented in boxes, dried ideally on raised mats in the sun, then roasted and ground ([13:09–14:21]).
• Chocolate’s variable flavor is tied to its agricultural nature, similar to coffee ([14:21]).
• Quote:

  "Flavor starts at the farm." — Amy Guittard ([12:28])

c) Understanding Percentages and Quality

• The cacao percentage represents both cocoa mass and cocoa butter. The proportion of each determines intensity and texture ([15:51–17:04]).
• High quality chocolate is smoother (finer grind, more careful processing), and ingredient quality and grind are key differentiators ([17:20]).

d) Cocoa Prices and Industry Challenges

• Rising chocolate prices are linked to climate change (disease, weather), crop failures, and fairer compensation for farmers ([18:30–19:43]).
• Quote:

  "The reality is there should be an increase in price. Cocoa farmers don’t make enough money." — Amy Guittard ([19:43])

3. Listener Questions: Baker’s Hotline

[22:55–33:10]

a) Cocoa Powder Types and Uses

[23:07]

• Types: Natural, Dutch-processed, and Black cocoas.
• Baking Chemistry:
  • Baking soda requires natural cocoa; baking powder pairs with Dutch-process.
  • Black cocoa gives the signature Oreo flavor and color.
• Quote:

  "If it’s a recipe that calls for baking powder and cocoa, you want to use a Dutch processed cocoa... If it’s leavened mostly with baking soda, use a natural cocoa." — Jessica Battilana ([24:32])

b) Getting Crackly Brownie Tops

[26:39]

• Crackly crust comes from melted sugar rising to the surface.
• Techniques: Dissolve sugar completely with butter or add chocolate chips for extra surface sugar ([27:51], [28:48]).
• Quote:

  "That crackly top is sugar that has... migrated to the top of the brownies and crystallized there." — David Tamarkin ([26:39])

c) Tempering Chocolate: What, Why, How

[29:18–33:10]

• Why Temper? For shiny, snappy chocolate coatings (e.g., truffles, dipped cookies).
• How To: Melt to a precise temp, cool to a second temp, work within a range.
• Expert advice from Melanie Wanders ([31:06]):
  • Dark chocolate: melt to 122°F, cool to 90°F, use between 86–90°F.
  • Milk/white: melt to 105°F, cool to 90°F, use between 84–86°F.
• Quote:

  "Tempering chocolate is... melting the chocolate to a certain temperature, cooling it... with agitation... and holding it at that temperature." — Melanie Wanders ([31:06]) "Even out-of-temper chocolate that’s streaky and less snappy still tastes great. So you can eat the mistakes and no one will ever know." — Melanie Wanders ([33:10])

4. Jess Opinions: The Truth on White Chocolate

[33:44–36:59]

• Jessica: “I hate white chocolate. I think it’s disgusting.” ([33:58])
• Critiques: White chocolate lacks “personality” and “interesting flavor,” often greasy and overly sweet—she’d always prefer dark or milk ([34:12–35:41]).
• David offers a counterpoint, suggesting white chocolate’s branding is the real problem and proposes alternative names like “milky vanilla bars.”
• Quote:

  "There’s nothing that white chocolate can do that dark chocolate or milk chocolate cannot do better." — Jessica Battilana ([35:41])

5. What Are the Bakers Baking?

[37:16–39:13]

• Jessica: Jalapeño Cheddar Pull-Apart Bread — the ultimate soup companion ([37:20]).
• David: Fugazzetta – an Argentinian stuffed cheese-and-onion pizza. Intrigued by its cultural fusion; hints at future pizza episode ([38:20–39:13]).
• Quote:

  "The way to upgrade any soup—even canned soup—is our jalapeno cheddar pull apart bread." — Jessica Battilana ([37:20])

Notable Quotes & Moments At a Glance

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote/Highlight | |-----------|------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:54 | Jessica | “It adds up to about 2.8 billion pounds of chocolate every year.” | | 05:22 | David | “Chocolate is the premium.” | | 10:54 | Jessica | “So, the company Guittard was founded by your great, great great grandfather... and he came to the United States...in search of gold.” | | 13:09 | Amy Guittard | “You ferment them over a period of time...that’s a really important flavor development process.” | | 14:21 | Jessica | “It is an agricultural product. Right. And that it is variable in that way.” | | 15:51 | Amy Guittard | “When you grind cocoa beans or nibs, you get unsweetened chocolate, which is the base of a lot of recipes.” | | 16:19 | Amy Guittard | “So that is the percent cacao, which is. It is mass and butter.” | | 19:43 | Amy Guittard | “The reality is there should be an increase in price. Cocoa farmers don’t make enough money.” | | 24:32 | Jessica | “If it’s a recipe that calls for baking powder and cocoa, you want to use a Dutch processed cocoa.” | | 26:39 | David | “That crackly top is sugar that has... migrated to the top of the brownies and crystallized there.” | | 31:06 | Melanie Wanders | “Tempering chocolate is... melting the chocolate to a certain temperature, cooling it...with agitation...and holding it at that temperature.” | | 33:10 | Melanie Wanders | “Even out-of-temper chocolate that’s streaky and less snappy still tastes great. So you can eat the mistakes and no one will ever know.” | | 33:58 | Jessica | “I hate white chocolate. I think it’s disgusting.” | | 35:41 | Jessica | “There’s nothing that white chocolate can do that dark chocolate or milk chocolate cannot do better.” | | 37:20 | Jessica | "The way to upgrade any soup—even canned soup—is our jalapeno cheddar pull apart bread." | | 39:13 | David | “I’m just sort of fascinated by Argentinian pizza...” |

Episode Highlights by Topic

• Chocolate Industry Facts: Surprising scale of consumption, industry economics, the role of climate change.
• History: Guittard Chocolate’s unique American origin story and family legacy.
• Science & Technique:
  • What "bean to bar" really means; the chemistry behind cocoa percentages and how they impact flavor and texture.
  • Clear, approachable explanations of cocoa powder types and their best baking uses.
  • Demystification of shiny brownie crust and tempering chocolate, with actionable tips and scientific rationales.
• Personalities & Opinions:
  • Jessica’s hot take on white chocolate stirs debate and rebranding ideas.
  • Hosts share their current go-to bakes, connecting the episode’s themes with real-life kitchen inspiration.

Practical Baking Wisdom

• When working with chocolate, understand the type, quality, and how process affects final flavor and bake stability.
• To get the best rise in chocolate desserts, match the leavener to the correct type of cocoa powder.
• For glossy brownie tops, focus on melting the sugar or mix in chocolate chips last to add sugar for crystallization.
• Tempering chocolate is a matter of careful temperature control—practice makes (almost) perfect, and mistakes are still delicious.

Conclusion

This episode provides a comprehensive, approachable, and often funny exploration of the fascinating world of chocolate—from history and science to practical baking strategies and personal preferences. Amy Guittard’s guest expertise brings depth to the discussion, while Jessica and David’s humor and hands-on advice make the details memorable and accessible for bakers of all levels.

For more chocolate recipes, cocoa advice, and to stock up on ingredients, head to kingarthurbaking.com.