It's Thanksgiving Pie Time, featuring Stacey Mei Yan Fong

Summary

Podcast Summary

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: "It's Thanksgiving Pie Time"
Guests: Jessica Battilana, David Tamarkin, and special guest Stacey Mei Yan Fong
Date: November 10, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the world of Thanksgiving pies, exploring why they inspire such passion and anxiety, offering an abundance of battle-tested pie-making tips, and taking listener questions about everything from soggy crusts to creative flavor twists. The hosts are joined by celebrated pie expert Stacey Mei Yan Fong, author of 50 Pies, 50 States, who shares her unique baking journey and practical wisdom for pie bakers of all stripes.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Thanksgiving Pie Passion & Pressure (01:24 – 03:23)

• Pies as a Thanksgiving Tradition: Both hosts reflect on the unifying role of pies during Thanksgiving and the pressure to get them just right, especially since many people only bake them this time of year.
• Media Trends: Hosts note the yearly push for “alternative” Thanksgiving pies, expressing skepticism ("Is this the year I'm gonna make a lemon chess pie for Thanksgiving? It is not." — Jessica, 01:37).
• Pie Anxiety: David offers a relatable analogy:

  “Pies are like bees and wild animals. They can sense your fear and... feed on it.” (02:40)

2. Ownership of Pie-Making (03:26 – 04:34)

• Family Dynamics: David shares a personal story about pie-making turf wars within his family, revealing the deep connections and sensitivities surrounding Thanksgiving baking.
• Memorable Quote:

  “I simmered with rage until I finally decided to do the most passive aggressive thing and write an article about it in Bon Appetit.” (04:11)

3. Expert Tactical Pie Tips (05:09 – 11:21)

• Chill, Chill, Chill: Both David and Jessica stress the importance of chilling dough at multiple stages (bowl, pastry cutter, butter, dough disc, shaped crust).
  • David: “I put it in the pan, shape it, crimp it… and that’s when I do the most important chill… That could be 12 hours. That could be 24 hours.” (06:24)
• Advance Prep and Freezing: Jessica freezes her pre-rolled, shaped crusts in metal pie tins for efficiency (07:19).
• Equipment Choices: Metal pie pans and baking on a steel/stone are hailed for crisp, un-soggy crusts.
• Crust Dust: Jessica’s trick for fruit pies—sprinkling a mixture of all-purpose flour and sugar on the unbaked crust to absorb juices (08:36).
• Long Enough Bake:

  “It takes a long time to bake a pie, I mean, an hour... an hour, 75 minutes.” (09:33 – Jessica)

• Piping Hot Indicator: Bake until you see “bubbling… almost like steam coming out of a locomotive.” (10:09 – David)
• Rustic over Perfection:

  “I don’t think pies should be picture perfect. I think it should be a little rustic.” (10:30 – Jessica)

• Takeaway: Relax, follow the steps, and remember: “It’s a learning curve.” (11:00 – David)

4. Interview with Pie Pro Stacey Mei Yan Fong (12:43 – 21:24)

• Stacey’s Pie Journey: Transitioned from handbag designer to professional baker during her green card process, eventually working at the renowned Four & Twenty Blackbirds in NYC.
  • “I kind of got deeply into baking pies when I started this project called 50 Pies, 50 States, when I was in the process of applying for my green card.” (13:06 – Stacey)
• Pie in Other Cultures: Growing up in Singapore, Indonesia, and Hong Kong, pies were primarily savory, inspired by colonial British or Australian traditions.
• Learning by Failing:

  “I made terrible crust for, like, six months… You have to get through that terrible part of it. It’s part of the learning experience.” (15:30 – Stacey)

• Handmade Over Processor: Sensory cues—texture, appearance—are key to mastering pie dough before moving to a food processor.
• Patience & The Fridge:

  “Pie is kind of a lesson in patience… the fridge is your best friend. If the butter’s getting soft, put it in the fridge. If things start getting too warm, put it in the fridge…and then come back to it, and it’ll be okay.” (16:30)

• Embracing Imperfection: Stacey’s “uggo pies” underscore that even imperfect pies belong at the table.
  • “Not everything I put in the oven comes out perfect. Even though I’ve been baking pie for as long as I have, things are gonna suck sometimes. And things do.” (19:03)
• Hotline Help: Stacey hosts an Instagram “pie hotline” every Thanksgiving to answer baking questions. (19:56)

5. Listener Q&A – Troubleshooting and Variations (24:06 – 36:56)

A. Pumpkin Pie Flavor Twists (24:06 – 26:31)

• Ideas: Alternative cookie crusts (gluten-free gingersnap, chocolate), grated fresh ginger in the filling, or a layer of cheesecake (pumpkin cheesecake pie).
• Whipped Cream Variations: Coffee, maple, or bourbon-spiked whipped cream adds subtle but delightful flavor.

B. Pie Weights & Blind Baking (27:26 – 31:30)

• Old Beans/Rice: Reusable, economical, and fill dish to brim.
• New Tools: King Arthur’s silicone pie weights (“like a net of mussels” for easy removal, dishwasher safe).
• Hack: Bake crust upside-down between two metal pans for minimal shrinkage (31:05).

C. Runny Apple Pie Fixes (31:47 – 36:56)

• Use King Arthur’s pie thickener chart (varies by fruit).
• Fully bake until piping hot (for thickener activation).
• Let cool completely (ideally 8-12 hours) before slicing.
• Pro tip: Slice with a serrated knife for cleaner cuts.

6. Hot Takes & End-of-Episode Fun (36:56 – 41:20)

• Jessica’s “Jess Opinion”:

  “If I had my druthers, I would not make any pies. I would make cookies instead, because I think cookies are a superior Thanksgiving dessert.” (37:14)

• David’s Rebuttal: Essential role of leftover pie for breakfast.

7. Hosts’ Personal Pie Picks for Thanksgiving (39:51 – 41:19)

• Jessica: Tarte Tatin ("apple pie 2.0" with caramelized apples)
• David: Cranberry Chiffon Pie (lighter, moussey, gluten-free variation with gingersnap crust)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Pie Anxiety:

  “Pies are tricky... They can sense your fear and they just feed on it.”
  — David (02:40)

• On Family Pie Politics:

  “I simmered with rage until I finally decided to do the most passive aggressive thing and write an article about it in Bon Appetit. And then all of a sudden, I got my pies back.”
  — David (04:11)

• The Power of Patience & Learning:

  “I made terrible crust for, like, six months... It’s part of the learning experience.”
  — Stacey (15:30)

• On Social Media Perfection:

  “Not everything I put in the oven comes out perfect... things are gonna suck sometimes. And things do.”
  — Stacey (19:03)

• Thanksgiving Dessert Hot Take:

  “I would make cookies instead, because I think cookies are a superior Thanksgiving dessert.”
  — Jessica (37:14)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Thanksgiving Pie Anxiety and Family Politics: 01:13 – 04:41
• Pie-Making Tactical Tips: 05:09 – 11:21
• Stacey Mei Yan Fong Interview: 12:43 – 21:24
• Listener Q&A: Pumpkin Pie Twists: 24:06 – 26:31
• Listener Q&A: Pie Weights and Blind Baking: 27:26 – 31:30
• Listener Q&A: Runny Apple Pie Solutions: 31:47 – 36:56
• Hot Take: Cookies Over Pie?: 36:56 – 39:51
• Host Thanksgiving Pie Picks: 39:51 – 41:19

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Conclusion

This thanksgiving-themed episode of Things Bakers Know is packed with empathy, practical wisdom, and laughter. Listeners will gain confidence—and perhaps a little serenity—on the road to their best-ever Thanksgiving pies thanks to deeply practical tips and a communal spirit that celebrates both triumphs and kitchen mess-ups. As always, bakers are reminded: take a deep breath, trust the process, and above all, enjoy the pie.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, listeners, it's Dan Souza from America's Test Kitchen, and I want to tell you about our new video podcast, in the Test Kitchen. It's where my colleagues and I talk about the latest recipes we're developing.

[B]

The thing about this recipe is it's a secret.

[A]

I love that kind of recipe. Yeah, we need more of those secrets. We also chat with amazing guests from the culinary world and beyond about how food shows up in their lives. New episodes of in the Test Kitchen drop every other Wednesday. You can watch in the Test Kitchen on YouTube and Spotify and listen to it wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

This season, it's brought to you by Plugra Premium European style butter made using a slow churn process. Look for Plugra wherever fine butters are sold. I finally decided to do the most passive aggressive thing and write an article about it in Bon Appetit. And then all of a sudden, I got my pies back.

[B]

From King Arthur Baking Company. This is things Baker. No, I'm Jessica Batalana, King Arthur's staff editor.

[C]

And I'm David Samarkin, editorial director at King Arthur Baking. And today we're talking all about Thanksgiving pies.

[B]

Yes. I am so psyched about this episode. And honestly, if I had a crystal ball, I would predict this is going to be one of our most listened to episodes.

[C]

It's a fraught topic for a lot of people.

[B]

It's a fraught topic. I think people have a lot of passion about Thanksgiving pies. They have a lot of anxiety about Thanksgiving pies. Thanksgiving in general.

[C]

Yes, yes, and yes.

[B]

And honestly, there is something that I find very sort of sweet about imagining people, you know, from coast to coast eating more or less the same meal and certainly like the same pies. Right. Like, we're here to talk about pie, and I think I do like all of those pies. I. I like all the classic Thanksgiving pies. And I always think it's interesting because, you know, media outlets are always trying to push alternative pies this time of year, right? Like, they need some fresh ideas so they can't just, like, rehash the same old pies. They have to come up with something new. And I always feel, frankly, pretty skeptical of those new pie recipes. Like, is this the year I'm gonna make a lemon chess pie for Thanksgiving? It is not.

[C]

That doesn't even seem that wild lemon chest pie.

[B]

It's not even that wild, but I'm not gonna do it. Or if you think, like, I'm only gonna have this pumpkin pie, you know, once a Year, which really is sort of the case in our household, then I just wanna be assured that it's gonna be a good one.

[C]

I mean, pies are tricky. And the fact that a lot of us don't eat these pies, except for on Thanksgiving, to your point, does put an added amount of pressure on the pies that we make. And I got it. Here's my first tip for everybody. If you're feeling pressure, if you're stressed out, your pie is going to feel that stress and it's not going to come out as well. I mean, pies are like bees and like wild animals. They can sense your fear and they. And they just. They just feed and they feed on it.

[B]

I think it's true.

[C]

It's not gonna turn out so every. The first thing everybody needs to do right now, a couple weeks before Thanksgiving is just take a deep breath. Yeah, it's gonna be fine.

[B]

It's gonna be fine. It's just one meal, you know?

[C]

And also, there's a lot of tension. At least in my life, there's been a lot of tension about who makes the Thanksgiving pies. For many, many years. I always made the pies for Thanksgiving. I don't know how it happened. It was just assigned to me. I don't know if I did a good job with them. I don't know. I was a teenager when I started. But it was my thing, and I definitely owned that and felt a lot of ownership over it and felt very proud of it and excited about it. And then one year I come home for Thanksgiving to find that somehow my brother in law has been given the pie assignment. And not only has he been given the pie assignment, he's already made the pies. So there's no way I can take it back.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And from that year on, for the next 10 years, he held that assignment. And I simmered with rage until I finally decided to do the most passive aggressive thing and write an article about it in Bon Appetit, which told him and the rest of my family how mad I was about it. And then all of a sudden, I got my pies back.

[D]

Wow.

[B]

It's like public therapy. That's amazing.

[C]

I'll put the link to that article in the show.

[B]

I want to read it in case.

[C]

Anybody wants to read it.

[B]

Yeah, that's amaz. Well, obviously you don't have such an ironclad hold on it as I do, but I think everyone listening could take a few lessons from us today because we have a lot of tactical tips from years spent Making pies and also just, you know, talking to great pie makers. I want to give people some tactical advice here. So what do you think is, like, your number one tip for people that are embarking on their pie journey? How can we help them?

[C]

So. And I feel like I really have gone on a pie journey these past few years, helping to produce our on demand class on pies. And the one thing they kept on saying over and over again is, you have to chill your pie dough, and you have to chill it at many different steps. First of all, you want all your ingredients and all your tools to be cool when you were first putting together your dough. I make my dough by hand, but I chill the metal bowl I'm using. I chill my pastry cutter. Obviously, I freeze my butter. Not, like, for too long. I put it in the freezer for about half an hour or so. I freeze everything. But then after I make my dough, I never go from making my dough straight into rolling it out. I'm chilling between each of those steps. Now I might be going overboard, because my worst fear is dough shrinkage, because there have been so many times that I have gotten that pie dough looking so pretty in the pan. It goes in the oven, and then it just all, like, shrinks down the steps. That help when you're chilling your dough? Are chilling it as a disc in the fridge?

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Letting it rest. It's about letting it rest as much as it is about letting it chill. Okay, then roll it out. Then at that point, I put it in the pan.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And I shape it, I crimp it, whatever. And that's when I do the, I think the most important chill. I let that chill in the fridge. That could be 12 hours. That could be 24 hours. To really keep their shape and keep that crimping, which is really the most important thing to me, because I'm in for the aesthetics.

[B]

Of course, you're doing it for the gram, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I support the getting ahead. And obviously, making your pie crust ahead is, like, one great way to get ahead. One place that I. That I think could be optimized is people will make their discs of pie dough, and then they'll freeze them as discs of pie dough. So what I prefer to do is, like, you. I make my disc of dough, I'll refrigerate it, and then I'll roll it out and put it into the pie dish and then freeze it in the pie tin, because then it's, like, ready to go. You can do that a month in advance if you wanted to and just put the whole pie into a, like, plastic bag and twist, tie it so it doesn't get freeze or burned. And then they're just waiting there for you.

[C]

I love that. That is really smart.

[B]

It's better than freezing the discs because that just is like. That doesn't actually get you that far ahead because then you're just waiting again.

[C]

It gets you ahead, but then it also sets you back later. So that's a great tip. I think you. You recently made a pie and put it in our group chat at work, and it was absolutely stunning. And one thing you said to us here at work is, I followed all the steps, I followed all the rules. And one of your rules was metal pie tin. And you had a bunch of other really great rules in there as well.

[B]

Yeah. Which I have learned since working at King Arthur. And now it's like I deploy all of the things. So all of the things for me is metal pie tin, check. Well, chilled dough, pastry, check. I bake my pies on my baking steel or baking stone, if you have that. So I set the pie plate right directly on there. I usually put a sheet of parchment to avoid the bubble over. That sometimes happens. So pizza stone or steel parchment pie pan right on it. Because then it gets that like nice steady heat from the bottom, which helps prevent the soggy bottom crust, which is a scourge of pie bakers everywhere. The other thing I do to prevent that is I use this magical substance called crust dust.

[C]

You love crust dust.

[B]

I love crust dust. So crust dust is equal parts by volume, all purpose flour and sugar. That's all it is. So you have your rolled out crust, it's in your pie tin unbaked. And I sprinkle the bottom of the pie with a generous amount of crust dust. And that will absorb the juices. This is not obviously for a custard P. These are for the fruit pies. That will absorb the juices and help keep that bottom crust crispier.

[C]

And do you find that it leaves like a layer of floury?

[B]

I don't notice it. Nope. You don't notice it. It does feel a little belt and suspenders, like the metal pan, the piece of stone, the crust dust, the chilled crust, the chilled crust. And also last but not least, you have to bake your pie long enough.

[C]

Maybe the most important thing.

[B]

So many anemic pies in the world and that.

[C]

Nothing makes me.

[B]

Shaking your head.

[C]

Nothing makes me more angry or more sad. More sangry.

[B]

Yes. Angry. More disappointed. Yeah. It takes a long time to bake A pie, I mean, an hour. An hour, 75 minutes. And I start mine hotter. Do you start yours like, higher temperature and then drop the temperature?

[C]

It's not something I do for every pie. I would do it if the recipe calls for it. But do you think it's. Do you think it's good for every pie?

[B]

I mean, not custard pies, but every double crusted pie. I do. I start hotter. I start at 400 and then I drop it down, and then I just go until it is really brown. And if it's a fruit pie, till, like, you see some bubbling.

[C]

Right. That's another great tip I learned from the baking school one. I finally found out what piping hot means.

[B]

Oh, yeah, that's.

[C]

That's piping when the fruit is bubbling. Almost like steam coming out of a locomotive.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

In a cartoon, you know, when it's coming out, like, in a kind of like, straight shot and it's bubbling, that's when you know it's reached a point where a lot of the water has spake out and it's thickened.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[C]

It's piping hot. And you need to look for it to be piping.

[B]

Yeah. Like a drippy, messy pie. Like pies. I don't think, in my mind should be picture perfect. I think it should be like a little rustic.

[C]

Totally, totally.

[B]

Set yourself free. You know.

[C]

This is what I said at the beginning of the episode. Take a deep breath, set yourself free. Follow all of these very rigid tips we just gave you, and your pie will come out great. Relax.

[B]

But also, don't let us down.

[C]

It's a learning curve. And you and I have. Are lucky to have been baking pies for a while, and I feel very lucky to have been baking pies at King Arthur and learning from all these people. And I just will say to anybody out there who has. Who feels pie challenged, you can get much better. And all these tips that Jessica just laid out, they really do work. And it does require a little bit of equipment. But you know what? You're going to use that pie tin so much.

[B]

But we will put all the King Arthur resources, of which there are so many in the show notes. You can, you know, at your leisure, dig into the treasure trove. You know, I think you sort of brought up a nice point too, David. Like, you and I have baked a lot of pies in our lives, but still, there's always this opportunity to learn new things. Through participating in the on demand class and watching that come together, I've absorbed new things about Pie making just from watching the cooks in the test kitchen. There are always more opportunities to learn things as a baker, which is what makes it fun and exciting. And it's also part of why I was really excited to have today's guest come on. Because Stacy Mei Yan Fong is a pie pro in a totally different league from you and I. She is the author of the award winning book 50 Pies, 50 States. She lives in Brooklyn, New York now, but she was born in Singapore, raised in Indonesia and Hong Kong, and calls this cookbook, which she wrote while she was waiting for her green card, a love letter to America. And Stacy has a lot of tips and tricks and thoughts and ideas about pies, both sweet and savory. And she was so much fun to talk to and so generous with her knowledge. So I'm thrilled to have her on things Bakers now. So this is our episode is all about Thanksgiving pies, because I think that is a topic that people have a lot of passion about, also a lot of anxiety about. And so I thought, who better than you, a total pie expert, to come on and talk to us, to switch our fears, to give us some tips and tricks. But you were not always a pie baker, is that right? Like you came to pie a little later in life?

[D]

I came to pie a little later in life. I designed handbags for 10 years and I just baked and cooked on the side as something that was like my stress reliever. And I kind of got deeply into baking pies when I started this project called 50 Pies, 50 States When I was in the process of applying for my green card. And so I put myself through pies boot camp. And then because the universe does its thing, I ended up losing my job in fashion during the pandemic. And at that time I had baked many pies. And so I cold emailed a bunch of bakeries in the city and four and 20 blackbirds, which is my favorite pie shop in New York. They ended up giving me a job and I ended up baking at 4 and 20 blackbirds for two years. So then I went into real pie boot camp.

[B]

So but I want to back up for a second because you grew up, let's see, you're born in Singapore, which is not really like a pie eating country, especially not a pie eating country. And then you live for a time in Indonesia and in Hong Kong. Also not big on pie.

[D]

I think big on pie, not in the traditional way Americans think about pie. So for me, growing up, I knew what apple pie was like. I was very ingrained in American culture and listened to a lot of country music as a young child. But, like, I knew pie as, like, a completely savory thing.

[B]

Sure.

[D]

Because both Singapore and Hong Kong were British colonies. Like, for me, it was like steak and kidney pies or even Australian meat pies. I played rugby most of middle school and high school, and so, like, after rugby, we would eat like, a meat pie. And it wasn't till I came to college here that I discovered pie really, like, runs the gamut here as a dessert. Like, I was like, what in the world is a grasshopper pie? And, like, why is it the same color as toothpaste? You know, it was, like, such a wonderful world of discovery for me. Like, mo to the States.

[B]

I love that. And I. I mean, clearly now you have made a lot of pies in your life. A lot.

[D]

Yeah, I. I average about at least, like, 60 a year. 60 or more a year?

[B]

Yeah. That's pretty good. So more than one a week?

[D]

More than one a week, yeah.

[B]

Stacy, what is your preferred pie crust? And do you have any tips, tricks, pep talks, advice for the panicked people out there?

[D]

I feel like the biggest thing I can say is I made terrible crust for, like, six months. You know, you have to get through that terrible part of it. It's part of the learning experience, you know, and, like, whenever you write a recipe for pie crust, it's really hard to be, like, one cup of water or, you know, like, it's hard to say because, like, is it a really humid day, you're gonna add a little less water? Is it a really dry day, you're gonna add a little more water. And so my advice is to always start by making pie crust by hand. Like, once you get comfortable with, like, knowing what it feels like. And you kind of have those, like, sense cues where, like, oh, the crumb is going to look like this or it's going to get a little more yellow from the butter. That's when you can move on to using a food processor. Like, I wouldn't start there. Like, I feel the beauty of baking and why people like it or also hate it is that it's a very, like, all consuming, tactile thing. But that's what's also so beautiful about it. Because the world is so distracting now. Like, you might as well spend a little time in your kitchen and, like, take a moment and just, like, settle and make crusts. And also the best thing you can do is just chill, as in calm down, you're not doing brain surgery. And also use your Fridge. Like, your fridge is your best friend. If the butter's getting soft, put it in the fridge. If you can feel the doughs getting kind of weird, put it in the fridge and, like, take a lap around, take a turn about the room, and then come back to it, and it'll be okay. You know, like, there's lots of solves, I think. You know, the minute things start getting too wet or things start getting too warm, like, that's when people panic. But you literally have a beautiful ice box that's right next to you that can, like, save you a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, it's true.

[D]

Pie is kind of a lesson in patience. Like, there's the actual active time of you making the filling or making the dough isn't very long, but you wait a lot. Like, you wait for your dough to rest. You wait for. I like to freeze my pies before I bake them in the oven. That kind of helps with the crimps holding as it bakes. And then you also have to wait a little while before you cut into your pie or else, like a lasagna, it's just gonna leak everywhere.

[B]

And they take a long time to bake. Like, to fully bake a pie.

[D]

They take a long time to bake.

[B]

I feel like pies are always lying.

[D]

Pies are always lying. Like, and everybody's oven is so different. Sometimes the pie is gonna take an hour, sometimes the pie is gonna pay 2. And I think once you learn the kind of visual and smell cues, like, that's kind of when you get really deep into it. And, yeah, like, it's nice to have a little patience or learn a little patience. Everything comes so fast to us. Like, we can order something and get it the next day. Like, it's kind of nice to just, like, get lost in it and, like, slow down a little.

[B]

Yeah. One of the things that I love the most about, like, following some of your content on your Instagram account is that you don't just post your picture perfect pies. I mean, you do post your picture perfect pies, but you also have, like, the imperfect pies. I think you call them uggo pies. And I just love that because I think it's so relatable for people. You know, making an uggo pie that still tastes really good is probably what a lot of folks do.

[D]

I. I also think that there's this, like, weird sense that everything has to be, like, perfect and well edited and, like, well put together, and that's just kind of not how life is.

[B]

No.

[D]

Like, not everything I put in the oven comes out perfect. Even though I've been baking pie for as long as I have, like, things are gonna suck sometimes. Like, and things do.

[B]

And I think, statement of the year. Yes.

[D]

Right? Truly. And I think it's such a disservice, too, as a person that, like, is in the world existing. Baking pie to everything I do is perfect. Like, portraying this image that doesn't exist. And it's also, like, yeah, today I had a bad day. I was kind of in a weird mood, and you could tell because my bake came out bad. And then, guess what? Tomorrow's another day. I've got more pie crust in the fridge, and everything will be okay.

[B]

Yeah. Now, you must get, like, really pressed into service this time of year, like, Thanksgiving time of year, because I'm sure, like, you probably have people texting you questions. But then I imagine if you go to Thanksgiving gatherings, like, you're on the hook to bring pies.

[D]

Yes, I'm always on the hook. A thing that I've done the past few years is I open up a hotline on my Instagram and I let people DM me or, like, write me an email if they have a question or they have an idea, and I just, like, offer my services for free.

[B]

I love this.

[D]

I've gotten to meet, like, so many wonderful people on the Internet that are like, I have this bing bong pie question, and I'm like, okay. Like, I'll try and answer it, like, the best that I can or reach out to another baker. I know that might have a better idea than me.

[B]

So I love that. I mean, I think between, like, for our listeners out there, between the King Arthur baker's hotline and your Instagram hotline, like, any questions people have about Thanksgiving pie, we, like, we will have people sorted. Like, we are. There we are. Operators are standing by. Stacey, it's such a treat to talk to you, and I love that our readers can find you on Instagram. It's. Your handle is just.

[D]

My name's Stacey. Mei Ann Fong.

[B]

Mei Ann Fong. Great. And we'll put that in the show notes. So you're gonna get an absolute deluge of questions now that you've said, I'm ready.

[D]

And then I will also link you to my really good country holiday playlist.

[B]

That I think so. Oh, my gosh. I also love country music, and I plan to listen to that while I prepare my Thanksgiving feast. It's such a pleasure to talk to you. Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge and your time. And I hope you'll come back and chat with us again.

[D]

Of course. This was an absolute joy. Happy holidays.

[B]

Happy holidays. This episode is brought to you by Plugra Premium European style butter. Plugra butter is developed by Chefs for Chefs and was designed for professional quality results. But it's not just for professional chefs. Home bakers can rely on that same precision for everything from pie crusts to laminated pastries. I know you're making a lot of laminated pastries at home, right, David?

[C]

Well, I mean, I do sometimes I try. I do rough puff, I gotta say. But whenever I do, I do like a butter with Pflugra's butterfat. It's 82% butterfat. And look, if it's good enough for chefs, it's good enough for me, you know?

[B]

Totally.

[C]

So look for Pfluger butter wherever fine butters are sold.

[B]

Naturally. Our Thanksgiving pie episode is brought to you by all of our favorite pie tools, from sturdy metal pie pans, which, honestly are the very best ones for getting a pie with a truly crisp and browned crust, to versatile rolling pins, to instant clear gel, which is our go to way to thicken pie fillings. Another secret ingredient, we've got everything you need to bake your best pies this season.

[C]

You know, my favorite secret pie ingredient, Jessica, is sparkling sugar. Because you put it all over your pie crust and it doesn't melt. And then you pull pie out of the oven and it has so much glamour. It's beautiful.

[B]

You're very fancy. You just dress your pies up for the holidays.

[C]

It's the holidays.

[B]

I love it. You can find all of our pie must haves in our online [e-mail] it is time for our next segment. My favorite segment, ask the Bakers. We got a lot of questions for Ask the Bakers this week, but if you have a question for Ask the Bakers, we want to hear it. Head to kingarthurbaking.com podcast to record a voice message. We might end up using it on the show. That's kingarthurbaking.com podcast.

[C]

And of course, if you have a baking question that can't wait for the podcast, you can always reach out to the baker's hotline via phone, email, or online chat. Just go to kingarthurbaking.com Bakers Hotline. That's kingarthurbaking.com bakers hotline. Or call us at 855-371-2253. That's 2253. As in bake. It's a very busy time for the hotline.

[B]

It sure is. But let's listen to the questions and see if we can save the hotline folks some labor by answering some questions.

[E]

Now, my favorite pie for Thanksgiving is pumpkin pie, by far. I love it so much. I started making it with fresh pie pumpkins years ago because my uncle has a farm north of San Francisco and we always go up and visit during harvest time in the fall and he gives us a bunch of pie pumpkins. So we, we changed from canned to a real pumpkin. And that's been a really nice shift. So delicious. And I'm wondering from you both if I were to tweak my pumpkin pie a little bit this year, just do something, not a major change, but a little twist in adding special flavor, what would you suggest?

[F]

Thank you.

[B]

She hasn't heard us spout off about how fresh pumpkin puree is just a waste.

[C]

I mean, but it sounds like she's got a special thing going. She's got a lot.

[B]

She's on a journey. Yeah, she's on a pie journey. It was interesting too. I like how she says, I want a little tweak. Nothing major because as we said, I feel like the Thanksgiving meal is so codified. People don't want and in fact are like offended by big switches.

[C]

Right.

[B]

She mentioned that it is a pie that's easy to make gluten free, which is true. You know, one of the things I was thinking about is varying the crust. And obviously if you are baking gluten free, you have to, you know, factor that in. But I often make a pumpkin pie with a sort of alternative crust. You know, I'll do biscoff cookies, which are not gluten free. But gingersnaps. There are gluten free gingersnaps out there and I think that is really nice. Or a chocolate cookie crust also. You could do those in combination with like a little bit of ground nuts, I think would be nice just to add some flavor.

[C]

Yeah, I love your ideas. And to the custard part, I would just grate in a lot of fresh ginger. I wouldn't do too much. I would maybe do a teaspoon of fresh ginger grated. I think that would make a big impact and be really nice and help keep the pie feel decadent but also a little bit lighter. And if you want to go in the other direction to more decadent, we do have a recipe on the site which I love for a pumpkin cheesecake pie, which is not a pumpkin flavored cheesecake It's a layer of pumpkin pie and a layer of cheesecake. It's really beautiful. It's got that kind of stripey look to it. And I've made that and it's great. Yeah, it really makes it more robust.

[B]

And I also think just making the custard filling ahead of time, you know, really allowing those spices, whether dry spices or the fresh ginger, some like an opportunity to sort of bloom in the custard. And, you know, we didn't talk about this yet, but I also think people don't really consider flavoring their whipped cream as much as I think that they should. And so like a coffee whipped cream on top of a gluten free pumpkin pie sounds really good to me. Or a maple like, or even a little bit of bourbon in there. So I think you can have the aftermarket additions that would be really nice and flavorful. And, you know, fat carries flavor really well. It sounds good. I like coffee and pumpkin a lot. Even a chocolate whipped cream would be good on top of a pumpkin piece. Then also for the purists, they don't have to put it on. So I think that would be fun to try any of those things. And I think they're subtle enough that if you have some staunch traditionalists at your table, they're not going to be offended. Let's go to our next question.

[F]

Hi, my name is Apita and I'm from Atlanta and I had a question about wine baking. When you are baking pies, I was wondering if I should invest in some pie weights or if you had some best practices on using dry beans or uncooked rice. I just sort of feel like I'm wasting uncooked beans and rice when I'm using it during a blind bake. Or maybe I am just doing it totally wrong. So any information would be really helpful. Thank you.

[B]

Mm.

[C]

Mm. We have thoughts about this.

[B]

I have so many thoughts about this.

[C]

A lot of thoughts about pie weights.

[B]

I do, because pie, a shrinking pie crust is such a terrible and dispiriting thing to have happen to you. So, you know, what we're talking about here is that some pies require you to bake it once before you fill it so you get the crust fully cooked. So that often is the case. You know, some of them it's pies like a custard pie where the custard filling gets added afterwards, things like that. So you have to start with a pre baked pie shell. And man, I have tried, I've tried a lot of things. So what I will Say that I use because of my Yankee thrift. My noted Yankee thrift is that I do use beans, actually a combination of beans and rice, because they're relatively inexpensive, very inexpensive, and you can really fill. So I crumple up a piece of parchment, I line the inside of my unbaked pie shell, and then I fill it, like, right to the brimmety brim with my rice and bean combination. I use those same rice and bean combo over and over again. I mean, the ones I have are probably, I don't know, 10 years old. I just, like, dump them back into the canister once they've cooled, and I use them over and over again. That's what I do. But there are other ways. I want to shout out this new product that we're selling at King Arthur from our employee. Owners of the company developed this product and then sent it to be manufactured. And I think it's very cool. So it's. They're silicone pie weights instead of the ceramic ones, which are just a little bit easier to deal with, easier to wash if they get gummy. But what I think is that you.

[C]

Can put them in the dishwasher.

[B]

You could put them in the dishwasher. Dishwasher. They come in this pouch kind of like, you know, like a little drawstring.

[C]

Like a net of muscles.

[B]

Thank you. Like a net of mussels.

[C]

Is that.

[B]

How is that a really relatable comp?

[C]

We're on the east coast, so you.

[B]

Lay this pouch in there with the weights in it, and then when it comes time to pull it out, you know, what I normally do is, like, grab the hot parchment paper and, like, try not to spill. But this, you just. You just cinch up your little silicone pouch with your pie beans inside of it and lift the whole thing out, and there are enough pie beans in there to actually fill it to the brim.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that, plus the pouch itself, I think, helps keep the sides where they're supposed to be.

[C]

Yeah, it's a great product, and it's. It's one of the options. Rice and beans is another great option. But the key is find something that you can reuse and fill all the way to the top of your pie tin.

[B]

I have one more hot tip, though, for this. We recently published a blog by P.J. hamill, legendary King Arthur employee owner, and she showed us this technique for baking your pie crusts upside down.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that's cool.

[B]

So you have your metal pie dish, then you put in your pie dough, crimp it do whatever you want to do. And then you set a second metal pie dish nested in the unbaked crust. Then you invert the whole thing so it's crust up rather than edge up. And you bake it.

[C]

It's bottom up.

[B]

Up. It's bottom. Thank you. It's bottom up. So you've got gravity working on your side rather than working against gravity. And then you have it, like, you know, because it's sandwiched between the two metal pie pans, both of which we said earlier, conduct heat. Well, you get, like, a nice toasty shell. It does slightly flatten your crimp, but, like, you can't see it on a trotting horse. It's fine. And that's. I think that's pretty fun. You do need two metal pie pans.

[C]

Yeah, it's a very cool method. I love it. And.

[B]

And you don't need any pie weights for that. That anyway. So all of these things, I think work well. But, yes, just get it filled to the brim or try the inverted method, and shrinking pie crust will be a thing of the past. Let's hear our next listener question.

[E]

Hi, my name's Lauren. I'm a hobby baker, and I tend to bake a lot more when I go home and visit my family for the holidays. And my apple pie always turns out super runny. So I was wondering if you have any tips or tricks for how to avoid that.

[B]

That.

[C]

I'm gonna pass this to you, Jessica, because you are the apple pie queen.

[B]

Oh, that's nice. I don't think of myself as the queen, but maybe the duchess or. All right, I'll take queen.

[C]

The. The. The pink. The pink lady.

[B]

The pink lady, yeah, exactly. Well, it's. It's a relevant question for apple pie because that's the fruit pie that most people bake, you know, for Thanksgiving. But really a relevant question for all fruit pies, because I have certainly made pies. They look great. They're fully baked, et cetera, et cetera. You take them out of the oven, you cut them into it, and it's like soup between. Between two layers of crust. Such a bummer. Such a bummer.

[C]

Yeah. Huge bummer.

[B]

And I think, you know, one of the tricky things, of course, is that, like, fruit is, you know, it's an agricultural product. It's variable. You know, fruit's not always going to have the same amount of moisture from season to season, from variety to variety. So, like, it is. You know, there's always a little bit of guesswork, but I will Say a few things. We have a spectacular pie thickening guide chart, really a pie thickener chart on the website that we'll put in the show notes. And it breaks it down by types of fruit because of course fruits that have more pectin are going to set more readily than fruits that don't. And then, you know, depending on what thickener you want to use, it sort of explains the pros and cons of like tapioca starch versus corn starch versus all purpose flour versus instant clear gel. And I use that chart and I have found it gets you very close to where you want to be in terms of like getting the right amount of thickener, right kind of thickener for the type of fruit that you're using.

[C]

And apples have a fair amount of pectin.

[B]

They have a fair amount of pectin. So it's not going to be as soupy as say a blueberry pie or a strawberry pie because those have very little pectin. So those are going to need more of whatever thickener you choose. And there are pros and cons to using all of those thickeners that I described. Some, like, I find cornstarch gives you like a particularly. What's the word I want to use here? It's a stronger set and it can be like a little almost gummier. I was gonna say mucilaginous, but that just now I've ruined it for everyone. Everyone's like, ah, but you know, it gives you that sort of corn starchy thickened texture. So they all have their pros and cons, but the thickener chart lays all of that out and I think that's a great place, a great resource to use. I also think we talked about the importance of fully baking your piece.

[C]

Yes.

[B]

But then you've got to really let your pie fully cool.

[C]

Well, that is a great tip.

[B]

It is a great tip. And fully baking, as I said, is going to like activate the, the setting power of whatever thickener you've used. Like it has to come to like a nice, like a hot enough temperature. And that temperature is usually indicated by that, you know, piping, hot bubbling that gives the thickener, you know, the temperature it needs to fully activate and realize it's full thickening potential. But then when it comes out of the oven, like you've gotta wait hours, hours and hours and hours.

[C]

And I would even say you could bake your pie the day ahead and it would be totally fine.

[B]

I think better that than try and bake it in the afternoon and Serve it for dinner that night.

[C]

Oh, absolutely. Not afternoon. You gotta either. You either have to bake it the day ahead or first thing in the morning.

[B]

First thing in the morning. Yep, yep. And I often, if I get everything, you know, set up ready to go so that, you know, all I have to do is prepare my fruit and drop it in the crust. Like, early morning is an option. Pie is not gonna suffer if you bake it in the evening and serve it the next evening. It's gonna be fine.

[C]

It's gonna be better.

[B]

It's gonna be better. And it will have a chance to, like, really solidify, and then you'll get those nice, clean slices and, you know, tip from our test kitchen director, Sarah Jampel. She suggests that the best thing to cut your pie with is actually a serrated bread knife, because you can sort of saw through the crust versus using a straight edge blade where you have to exert a fair amount of downward pressure. And then you can kind of crumble the crust and kind of squish the filling. Because what you want, what we all want is like, I mean, forget the first slice. Those are always, like, so hard to get out. But what we all want is to cut that slice, get our pie server in there and, like, pull up a slice that, like, holds its shape totally. That's the goal. And I think the things that I mentioned will help you, you attain that goal.

[C]

So check the pie fruit thickener chart, do a really strong bake, get that crust golden, golden, golden brown, and let it rest for a few hours. At least. 12 hours, I'd say at least.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Eight hours. At least eight.

[B]

I'd say eight.

[C]

Eight hours, at least.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

A full working day.

[B]

A full working day. Yeah. But I hope that helps you make the apple pie of your dreams.

[C]

Thanks, caller. Every episode, we like to check in with Jessica to see what wildly surprising and full throated ideas are in her head. A segment we lovingly call Jess Opinions. Jessica, what is your Thanksgiving pie? Jess opinion?

[B]

This one's gonna make you mad. You know, I know we spent an entire episode talking about pie, and honestly, I'm going to make pies for Thanksgiving because I'm an American, and that's what we do, okay? Because pressure, right? I'm gonna make pies, but if I had my druthers, I would not make any pies. I would make cookies instead, because I think cookies are a superior Thanksgiving dessert. And I'm gonna tell you why.

[E]

What?

[C]

Come on. Superior? Better than pies?

[B]

Yeah, I think better than pies. Imagine if you will forecast yourself a few weeks in the future and you have just eaten like the turkey, the stuffing, the mashed potatoes, the casseroles, et cetera, et cetera, and you feel like you're borderline coma state, right? And then out come all these pies, like rich butter crusted pies. And you're like, oh, I just want a sliver. Right? I'm always like, I just want a sliver of all of them.

[C]

Oh, I couldn't possibly.

[B]

But if somebody brought out a cookie platter, I couldn't possibly. Just a little bit. If somebody brought out a cookie platter, you know, with like a lots of little cookies on it, variety of cookies, you'd be like, oh, I'll just have myself a little cookie. I don't know. I feel like there's more space in a full stomach for just a little cookie.

[C]

Okay, I'm on the record as loving a cookie platter and I think you've laid out a very logical argument, Jessica, but there's a huge flaw here, which is that you're focusing on the evening of Thanksgiving and you are completely ignoring the next morning.

[B]

Oh, that's.

[C]

So what do you eat the next morning if there's no pie? What do you eat for breakfast the next day? Gravy.

[B]

You're like, ah, like, I don't have to do anything for I'm eat leftovers. And you drink your coffee and you have your slice of chilled pumpkin pie. I mean, that no cookie's going to give you that. Okay, so I don't know.

[C]

Again with the coffee pumpkin connection. It's really.

[B]

I know I'm really pushing my agenda, but I do think a cookie plate is a very nice. Also easier to prepare, less fraught. Like people know how to make cookies. You have your cookie plate and then you're getting a head start on Christmas. It's just an idea. It's just an idea I'm putting out. I don't know if it's going to take over in mainstream America. I feel like I'm fighting some significant headwinds.

[C]

I think it's a great, I think it's a lovely idea to add a cookie. Oh, dad. So if people, for people who have saved room for pie, they eat their pie. And for people who just want a little, a little something, it's a little nibble. They eat a cookie and then there's still pie left over for breakfast. So I think you're onto something. I think it just seems a little bit tweaking. We're workshop this.

[B]

We're Going to workshop this. By next year, we're going to have it all sorted out.

[C]

So speaking of that, what is the Thanksgiving pie you will be baking this Thanksgiving?

[B]

I love an apple pie, but I love making tarte tatin, which is something I learned many, many, many, many, many years ago. And I think to me it's like apple pie 2.0, because the apples just like get so deeply caramelized and take on so much flavor. It's also just one crust instead of two. And I just think it's beautiful. And I serve that with whipped creme fraiche. And, you know, it is a little controversial. People are like, where's the real apple pie? But you know what? My house, my rules. Tarte tatin. And this year I shared that recipe for tarte tatin with our Test Kitchen team. And so it is now on the website. So if anyone else wants to join me in this endeavor, the recipe, we'll put in the show notes. What about you?

[C]

So I'm really hot on the idea of a cranberry pie for Thanksgiving. We do have a great cranberry pie on the site. It's a cranberry chiffon pie that went up a few years ago. It's a curd based pie, so it's not whole cranberries. It's very smooth, very delicious. I've made it gluten free for my sister a few times with a gluten free ginger snap crust. And it's lovely and it gives me the cranberry hit that I want without the jiggliness.

[B]

Yeah, I love a chiffon pie. And I actually think a chiffon pie is a nice choice for Thanksgiving because it does have that lightness. You know, the chiffon pies have the egg whites beaten into it, so it's got that nice almost like sort of foamy in a good way.

[C]

A little moussey.

[B]

Yeah, a little moussey, exactly. I could talk about pie for a hundred more hours, but, you know, we might listeners might start to drop off at a certain point. So we got to call it for this week. As ever, thank you for for tuning in and joining us here on Things Bakers know. We're gonna be back next week and next week is an all Q and A episode. So we're answering all of your holiday baking questions. We have lots of guest experts.

[C]

I'm excited about that episode because you and I are kind of off the hook.

[B]

Totally.

[C]

It's like we're bringing in the real experts for that one.

[B]

Yeah, we're bringing the big guns. Smart of us.

[C]

Remember to like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts and leave a.

[B]

Review while you're there. Or share this episode with a friend. Maybe share it with the person you're, you know, gonna share the Thanksgiving meal making load with.

[C]

Share this with the person you're assigning the pies to.

[B]

Yeah, share this. Yes.

[C]

Get it right.

[B]

Yeah, share this with the brother in laws of the world.

[C]

Right? Anyway, we'll see you back here next week. In the meantime, don't forget, follow the recipe and thanks Timmy. We'll be fine.

[B]

Take a deep breath. Follow the recipe.

[C]

Things Bakers Know is hosted and executive produced by me, David Smarkin and me, Jessica Batalana Rossi Anastapoulo is our senior producer, Chad Chanay is our producer, and Marcus Bagala is our engineer. Original music by Megan and Marcus Begala.

[B]

This episode featured cookbook author Stacy Meiyan Fong. You can learn more about her work and her Cookbook at 50pi50states.com Things Bakers.

[C]

Know is a King Arthur Baking Company podcast. Looking for more help in the kitchen? Subscribe to Food Friends Home Cooking Made Easy, a podcast that inspires home cooks with trusted recipes, practical tips, and the joy of culinary friendship with Jessica I don't need because I've got you.

[B]

Oh geez. Hosts Kari and Sonia are former personal chefs and friends who share dependable recipes and techniques for seasonal cooking. From weeknight dinner shortcuts and how to use up all that daikon radish you get in your Farmer's Market hall.

[C]

It's always a daikon radish. Always.

[B]

They also give you menu ideas for hosting a dinner party that's mostly stress free to help you get out of any cooking rut with the dishes and tips they rely on most to feed their friends and families. Along the way, they share professional strategies that make cooking easier and bring more confidence to the kitchen. We could all use that.

[C]

Find out [e-mail] and subscribe to it. Wherever you get your podcasts.