Podcast Summary: "Talking All Things Butter"

Podcast: Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Episode: Talking All Things Butter, featuring Dorie Greenspan
Hosts: Jessica Battilana and David Tamarkin
Guest: Dorie Greenspan
Release Date: September 29, 2025

Episode Overview

In the season two opener of Things Bakers Know, hosts Jessica Battilana and David Tamarkin celebrate the essential role of butter in baking. The episode explores butter’s history, its unique functions (and frustrations) for bakers, innovative techniques like the Cold Butter Method, and field expert Dorie Greenspan’s top butter tips and personal stories. The hosts also tackle listener questions about browning butter with milk powder, softening butter quickly, vegan substitutes, and more, ending with a quirky tour of Minnesota’s butter-carving tradition.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Butter: The Heart of Baking

• The episode kicks off with the recognition that, while many ingredients are important, butter is the through-line in most American baking—from cakes and cookies to croissants and pie crusts.
• David and Jessica swap summer baking stories, both centering around the ubiquitous 9x13 pan and copious amounts of butter (02:07–03:46).
• “All the best things, like from croissants to kouign-amann to pie crust to just your everyday cookie, you know, it’s built on butter, baby.” – Jessica (05:02)

2. Butter’s History and Lore

• The hosts share that butter has been used for over 9,000 years, with ancient uses ranging from ceremonial to artistic.
• Jessica: “I wasn’t familiar with some of the history of it… just how long butter has been a part of our lives on this planet. 9,000 years. I didn’t even know the planet was that old.” (07:09)
• Butter carvings appear in both Tibetan Buddhist rituals (tormas) and American state fairs (07:53–08:07).

3. Innovations in Butter Technique: The Cold Butter Method

• Nicole Rucker’s "Fat and Flour" introduces the Cold Butter Method (CBM), using cold (not room-temp) butter for creaming, especially in cookies and cakes (09:33–13:12).
• CBM goes against bakers’ traditional instincts: “People who have been baking for years... we’re so trained to start with room temperature butter and cream and think that, like, oh, no, no, the butter, the temperature matters... But Nicole’s book shows that there’s a way to also formulate a recipe that uses cold butter. And it’s very convenient.” – Jessica (12:16)
• Browning melted butter adds depth and “a sea change” you can’t get with flour or sugar manipulation—one of butter’s unique superpowers (14:06–15:14).

4. Interview: Dorie Greenspan on Butter (16:21–25:03)

Butter in Everyday (and Extraordinary) Baking

• Dorie shares her impressive butter stock (13 pounds!) and why she keeps mostly American unsalted butter for recipe accessibility, though she brings back special salted butter from Paris as a treat (16:43–18:26).
• “I always test with American supermarket butter... butter should be the basic.” – Dorie (17:30)

Butter Stories from France

• Dorie’s Parisian revelation: tasting “good butter” by the spoonful at a stranger’s dinner—“I had never thought that butter could be a major food group, that it was that important.” (18:36–19:25)

Recipe R&D: Extra-Buttery Madeleines

• On increasing madeleine butter: “My—I wanted the madeleines to be really a cake. And so for this recipe I used more butter than I usually do. And it turns out this will not surprise you. More butter is better.” (20:29–21:31)

Lightning Round: Butter Habits and Hot Takes

• Favorite butter-based bake: “Sablés, sablés... French butter cookies or a crust. Not so different!” (22:05)
• Room-temperature butter debate: Dorie only keeps room-temp butter out for bread (her husband does), never for creaming as it’s often too soft (22:28–23:03).
• “You should be able to put your thumb on the butter and have your thumbprint remain.” – Dorie (22:57)

Butter Seasonality — “Winter Butter”

• In France, “winter butter” is made from cows eating hay—drier and especially good for laminated doughs (23:20–24:13).
• “I want to know what time of year it is by the color of the butter.” – David (24:13)

5. Listener Q&A: Real-World Butter Challenges (28:08–44:01)

Q1: Browning Butter with Milk Powder

• Adding milk powder boosts the nuttiness when browning butter, especially in Rice Krispie treats (30:12).
• Do not substitute malted milk powder directly; add it with the dry ingredients instead.
• “Toast on, but don’t sub in malted milk powder.” (31:28)

Q2: When Is Butter Properly Creamed?

• Look for color change and texture: properly creamed butter turns paler and fluffy, forming peaks.
• Finger test: Should feel like modeling clay—dentable but not too soft or hard (33:33–34:09).

Q3: How to Soften Butter Quickly

• Cut butter into small pieces and set out for 20 minutes (or use microwave, standing stick upright for short bursts, flipping midway) (36:04–37:48).
• Melting then resolidifying butter changes its structure—save it for other uses.

Q4: Best Vegan Butter for Baking

• Comprehensive King Arthur test found both Earth Balance and Miyoko’s work, with minor browning and flavor differences (41:47–42:52).
• Vegan butters can indeed make great baked goods; the Miyoko’s has a distinct cultured flavor, Earth Balance is more neutral.

6. Butter Carving: The Butter Booth at the Minnesota State Fair (44:23–48:56)

• David shares his deep-dive into butter-carving culture: “Have you ever seen a person carve a 90 pound block of butter into the bust of a Dairy Princess?” (44:23)
• Butter sculptor Jerry Culzer works in a refrigerated rotating glass booth, creating busts of Princess K of the Milky Way and finalists by hand (46:20–46:47).
• “At the end of the fair, they get to take their bust home... Some people keep their busts for years in their chest freezers.” (47:40)

7. Jess Opinions: The Best Pie Crust Is Not (Only) Butter (49:00–51:31)

• Jessica’s hot take: Best pie crusts combine butter and shortening for flavor, tenderness, and reduced shrinkage.
• “I think all butter pie crusts shrink more... the best pie crusts are made with a combination of shortening and butter.” (50:25–50:55)

8. What We’re Baking This Week (51:31–53:15)

• Jessica: Apple pie bars with a shortbread crust, stovetop apple filling, and streusel topping—a lower-fuss, butter-centric version of apple pie.
• David: “Pumpkiniest pumpkin bread” (soon to be shared in the show notes), with chocolate chips and reduced pumpkin for deep flavor.

9. Standout Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “A girl can never be—you know, I buy butter in bulk. I buy butter when it’s on sale. I buy butter when somebody lends me their card to Restaurant Depot.” – Dorie (17:03)
• “More butter is better. It’s just. It was just delicious.” – Dorie on madeleines (21:12)
• “It’s the rule of butter that no matter what you want to bake, butter will never be at the right temperature.” – Test Kitchen Director, via David (13:12)
• “Have you ever seen a person carve a 90 pound block of butter into the bust of a Dairy Princess?” – Jessica (44:23)
• “Heaven would be a place where the butter is always the right temperature.” – Jessica (39:00)
• “It’s been PJ’d.” – The hosts explaining the testing rigor of King Arthur recipes (44:01)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Summer Baking and 9x13 Pans: 02:07–03:46
• Deep Dive: Butter’s Importance and History: 04:50–08:07
• Cold Butter Method & Innovations: 09:33–15:25
• Dorie Greenspan Interview: 16:21–25:03
• Listener Q&A: 28:08–44:01
• Minnesota Butter Carving: 44:23–48:56
• Jess Opinions: 49:00–51:31
• What We’re Baking: 51:31–53:15

Natural Language Tone

Jessica and David’s voices are knowledgeable, playful, and inviting—frequently poking fun at each other, joyfully sharing their love for butter, and expressing genuine curiosity both with expert guests and listener questions. Their banter is expert yet friendly, as accessible as a good recipe.

Resources Mentioned / Show Notes

• Nicole Rucker’s Fat & Flour baking book and the Cold Butter Method
• King Arthur’s blog and recipe collection—including vegan baking guides and creaming butter tips
• Video and further reading on butter carving at the Minnesota State Fair
• Dorie Greenspan’s new book: Dorie’s Anytime Cakes
• Recipes: Ultimate Rice Krispie Treats, Pumpkin Bread, Apple Pie Bars

For Those Who Haven’t Listened

This episode is a butter-laden feast, moving from everyday baking hacks to the lore of butter in history, innovative baking science, the wisdom of expert Dorie Greenspan, practical listener Q&A, and quirky butter culture. Whether you’re a butter devotee or a dairy-avoider, you’ll leave with new baking know-how, fun stories, and better crusts.

Next up: Episode 2 dives into Chinatown baking with a special guest.