Podcast Summary: Things Bakers Know — The Best of Chinatown Bakeries with Kristina Cho

Podcast: Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast
Hosts: Jessica Battilana & David Tamarkin
Guest: Kristina Cho
Date: October 6, 2025
Episode Theme: Exploring the beloved and diverse world of Chinatown bakeries, with a special guest appearance by Kristina Cho, James Beard Award-winning author of Mooncakes and Milk Bread. The episode covers the history, culture, and irresistible bakes of these bakeries, alongside practical baking tips and listener Q&A.

Episode Overview

This episode dives deeply into the wonders of American Chinatown bakeries—where their unique baked offerings come from, the immigrant stories behind them, and why these pastries inspire such passionate devotion. In honor of the Mid Autumn Festival, hosts Jessica and David are joined by Kristina Cho to discuss classic and modern creations, the influence of Western baking, and guidance for home bakers eager to replicate these treats.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: Love for Chinatown Bakeries

• Jessica’s Car Story: Jessica shares a humorous anecdote about being rear-ended by a BMW with a "DAN TAT" (egg tart) license plate. It not only captures her personal affection for egg tarts but sets the tone for an episode centered on nostalgia and food-memories.

  “Dontat is another name for those egg tarts that you get at Chinatown bakeries that have, like, the super flaky lard crust and the really eggy, not too sweet custard in it.” — Jessica (02:16)

• Why Now? The Mid Autumn Festival, when Chinatown bakeries are at their most festive with mooncakes, is the perfect moment to highlight these vibrant spots.

A Brief History of Chinatown Bakeries in the US

• Chinese immigration to America began in the 1850s, leading to the establishment of Asian eateries and bakeries.
• Early bakeries sold mainly steamed buns, later expanding to embrace Western pastries due to local influences ([05:03]).

Personal Favorites & Must-Try Pastries (06:46–08:45)

• Jessica: Cocktail buns—sweet, fluffy with a coconut-butter filling—are her go-to.
• David: Favors pineapple buns (bolo bao), notable for their crunchy topping—despite the lack of actual pineapple, and sometimes roast pork buns. Both agree that egg tarts, in either Hong Kong or Macau (Portuguese) style, are showstoppers.
• Discussion on Egg Tarts: The hosts compare the Hong Kong (buttery short or puff crust, smooth filling) vs. Macau styles (burnished, more caramelized, denser custard), delving into historical influences of colonialism and technique.

“Chinese puff pastry...instead of using butter, they use lard....a fatty dough laminated with a leaner dough, which honestly...sounds easier and better to me.” — David ([09:09])

Chinese Bakeries in the American Food Landscape (10:41)

• Kristina Cho praised for modernizing and celebrating Chinese-American bakery traditions—including inventing playful flavors (PB&J bun, everything-bagel bun), reflecting the blend of traditions and innovation that define today’s American baking ([09:39]).

Interview with Kristina Cho (11:00–23:05)

The Variety and Navigation of a Chinese (Hong Kong-Style) Bakery

• Display windows brimming with cream cakes and fruits, an array of sweet and savory buns, and shiny egg-wash glazes are standard ([13:06]–[13:55]).
• Unique offerings: roll cakes filled with pork floss and scallions, cocktail buns with distinctive piped stripes, and “bolo bao”—the pineapple bun.
• Kristina’s Take:

  “Everything needs to be shiny...you’ll probably find a bolo bao, which is a pineapple bun....This cake, this is Swiss roll that has pork floss and green onions in it. But...the base of it is still a sponge cake.” — Kristina ([13:07])

Kristina’s Origin Story & Family Immigration (15:00–17:11)

• Architecture background, baking as a second calling.
• Her family emigrated from Hong Kong—Cleveland’s Chinese immigrant community played a pivotal role in supporting each other and establishing Chinese restaurants and bakeries.

The Evolution of Bakery Offerings (17:40–20:00)

• Even the oldest bakeries (e.g., San Francisco’s Eastern Bakery) adopted iconic buns (pineapple buns, cocktail buns) only in the mid-20th century.
• Introduction of Western pâtisserie (e.g., chiffon cakes, cookies, fruit-adorned cakes) to Chinese baking, especially prominent in Hong Kong—called “Western bakeries” in Asia.
• Bakeries in Chinatown serve as community hubs, offering a “third space” for socializing ([20:32–21:10]).

Spotlight: Mooncakes and the Mid Autumn Festival (21:10–22:55)

• Mooncakes, primary treat of the festival, compared to “a fig Newton texture” and meant for sharing.
• Molded for intricate patterns, often dense/Cantonese-style with fillings like red bean, lotus, or salted egg yolk.
• Kristina’s cookbook demystifies home mooncake-making.

Listener Q&A: Expert Baking Tips

Steamed Buns: Avoiding Wrinkles & Collapse (25:36–28:55)

• Key Takeaway:

  “Wrinkliness collapsing can often happen when there’s a shock in temperature [after steaming]. ... Instead of removing the lid right away, turn off the burner and let the steamer sit on top for just five minutes. That kind of helps set your dough.” — Kristina ([26:46])

• Dough handling practice and pinching seams closed; placing buns seam side down hides imperfections.

Tangzhong Method (29:14–31:56)

• Slurry of flour and liquid is cooked, then incorporated into dough, making bread “so fluffy, so soft”—especially for milk breads and even cookies.

  “All you need to know really is that if you make a Tangzhong for your bread dough, the bread is going to be so fluffy, so soft...and it’s going to give it a longer shelf life.” — David ([30:25])

• Hosts plug several King Arthur recipes using tangzhong, including the sleeper-hit golden milk bread.

Roll Cakes: Preventing Splitting (32:38–36:53)

• Overbaking dries out sponge and makes cracking more likely.
• Kristina’s roll cake method: Cool slightly after baking, use parchment to roll warm (not hot); patience avoids cracks.

  “I let it cool down for like five minutes… if you immediately just go in rolling, the steam gets trapped. When I unroll, the cake cracks… Leave it alone for five minutes… then roll it up with parchment.” — Kristina ([36:10])

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Bakery Self-Serve Culture:

  “I just love, I just love the self serve. I love wandering around. … I feel like in a Chinatown bakery you can take your time, you can look at things, but it really takes the pressure off.” — Jessica ([37:34])

• On the Identity of Bakeries:

  “In America, we call it a Chinese bakery…in Hong Kong, everyone called that style of bakery a Western bakery. So there’s this really interesting convergence of…definitions and how we see culture shifting.” — Kristina ([18:38])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jessica’s Story and Introduction to Egg Tarts: 01:13–03:33
• Chinatown Bakery History & Mid Autumn Festival: 04:21–05:46
• Favorite Bakery Items Discussion: 06:46–08:45
• Egg Tart Deep Dive & Puff Pastry Techniques: 08:45–09:39
• Kristina Cho Interview (start): 11:00
• Navigating a Chinese Bakery: 12:44–14:23
• Mooncakes and Mid Autumn Festival: 21:10–22:55
• Steamed Buns Troubleshooting (Q&A): 25:36–28:55
• Tangzhong Bread Method: 29:14–31:56
• Roll Cake Crack Problem Solving: 32:38–36:53
• Bakery Self-Serve “Jess Opinions”: 37:22–39:32

Notable Quotes (with timestamps)

• “Dontat is another name for those egg tarts...super flaky lard crust and the really eggy, not too sweet custard.” — Jessica (02:16)
• “If you make a Tangzhong for your bread dough, the bread is going to be so fluffy, so soft… and it’s going to give it a longer shelf life.” — David (30:25)
• “I let it cool down for like five minutes…when I go to unroll, the cake cracks…Leave it alone for five minutes…then roll it up with parchment.” — Kristina Cho (36:10)

Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Chinatown bakeries are a showcase for immigrant ingenuity, community resilience, adaptation, and fusion.
• Kristina Cho’s cookbooks serve as a vital bridge for home bakers wishing to access these flavors and techniques.
• Patient, thoughtful technique is at the heart of successful baking—whether steaming buns, making feathery bread, or creating a flawless roll cake.
• Self-serve bakery style makes sampling more inviting and democratic—a “school lunch model” more bakeries could embrace!
• The episode is a loving tribute to Chinatown bakeries’ role in American food culture: delicious, multifaceted, and always evolving.

For recipes and more resources:

• King Arthur’s website (kingarthurbaking.com) houses classic and innovative Chinese bakery recipes.
• Kristina Cho’s books: eatchofood.com

Next episode teaser:
All about fall baking—pumpkin spice, apples, cinnamon, and more! Send in your questions for a chance to be featured.