Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: We're in Our Croissant Era, with the Baking School's Elisabeth Berthasavage
Date: May 4, 2026
Host(s): David Tamarkin, Jessica Battilana
Special Guest: Elisabeth Berthasavage (King Arthur Baking School)

Episode Overview

This episode of Things Bakers Know is a deep-dive into the world of croissants: history, evolution, home baking tips, tools, and trends. Hosts David and Jessica chat through the intricacies of laminated dough, the cultural journey of croissants, and welcome baking instructor Elisabeth Berthasavage for expert insight on making croissants at home. Listener questions tackle flour, proofing, gear, and butter, while the hosts deliver candid “Jess Opinions” on croissant trends.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes the Perfect Croissant? [00:49–08:25]

Crisp, Shattering Texture: Jessica shares her “non-negotiable” for croissants: “The best croissants are the ones that you can’t eat without, like, destroying your outfit...where they're shatteringly crisp, lots of flaky shards of pastry, and you get them all over your shirt, all over your pants.” — (Jessica, [01:08])
Laminated Dough Demystified: David explains lamination (“You layer that with pure fat — with butter — and you roll it out. You do a series of folds, and you have a dough that's layered with butter, and it bakes up into a very crispy thing because the butter melts, lets off steam, and the steam creates flakes.” — [01:41])
Yeasted vs. Sourdough Croissants: Most croissants are yeasted for airiness; some sourdoughs exist, but yeasted is the standard. (Jessica & David, [02:30–02:55])
Changing Tastes: Croissants have evolved in the public imagination. “What you may be thinking of as the ideal croissant may not have been the ideal croissant 20 years ago.” — (David, [03:07])
Butter is Non-Negotiable: Only pure butter delivers the right taste. “The best croissants have always been made with pure butter.” — (Jessica, [06:03])

Croissant Culture: Shape and Lore [06:36–07:57]

French Croissant Custom: “In France, all-butter croissants are straight, whereas croissants with another fat are curved. It’s a way to identify authenticity.” — (Jessica, [06:39])

Innovation & Scarcity Bakes [07:57–12:46]

The “Cronut” Effect: Croissants as a base for wild innovation — from the famous cronut to batched croissant “loafs” and Supreme shapes, bakers have stretched the form.
Scarcity Bake & Croissant Theory: “The croissant is often used as what I call a scarcity bake…to drive demand, to build hype, to get people in line and sort of increase perceived value.” — (Jessica, [10:21])
Flavors & Fillings: “Now I feel like the fillings are…no longer just pain au chocolat, ham and cheese...it’s like yuzu chamomile...there’s just so much innovation happening both in form and flavor.” — (Jessica, [11:24])
The Gimmicky Risk: “I’m always a little skeptical when I see a croissant that’s rainbow-colored — like, this looks like a gimmick to me.” — (David, [11:59])

Croissants at Home: Challenges & Rewards [12:47–13:43]

Projects for the Passionate: Both hosts agree croissants at home are a considerable project, but incredibly rewarding for those who love a baking challenge.

Croissants with Elisabeth Berthasavage (Baking School Instructor)

[13:50–24:59]

Why Make Croissants at Home?

Cost and Experience: “The average cost of a croissant from a nice bakery is anywhere from four to eight dollars…. If you want this delicious pastry a couple of times a week—there you go, now you can’t afford your coffee.” — (Elisabeth, [14:08])
Intrinsic Joy: Many students are driven by the fun, challenge, or desire for mastery, not just the result. (David & Elisabeth, [14:51–15:51])

Home vs. Professional Croissant Baking

The Proofing Advantage: “The one thing that makes it easier in a commercial setting is the proof box. You have complete, almost complete control over what’s happening, the timing, temperature, humidity.” — (Elisabeth, [16:45])
Home Proofing Hack:
- Use the oven with the light on as a makeshift proof box.
- Add a mug of hot water for humidity.
- “Every 30 minutes...I’ll swap that [mug] out every 30 minutes.” — (Elisabeth, [17:43])
Proofing Croissants vs. Bread:
- “They should feel pillowy, marshmallowy. …Give that sheet pan a little shake, and it will just wobble back and forth.” — (Elisabeth, [19:34])

Proofing Tips & Signs

Look for:
- Clearly visible layers (you can peel them back a bit with your finger)
- Marshmallowy, pillowy feel
- Wobble/jiggle on the tray ([20:51–21:03])
Beware of Over/Underproofing:
- “A longer proof...can actually get that butter too soft, especially when you’re not in an environment that’s controlled with temperature. …If you get the butter too soft…that butter has a tendency to leak.…The texture…is going to be somewhat denser, somewhat chewier, a very lackluster oven spring.” — (Elisabeth, [22:10–23:22])

Elisabeth’s Number One Home-Baking Advice

“Trust the process because it is a process. And don’t be afraid to make mistakes—you got to learn from those mistakes. …Give yourself a pat on the back just for trying.” — (Elisabeth, [24:16])

Listener Q&A: Ask the Bakers [28:08–37:02]

1. Flour for Croissants: French T45/T55 and “Ash Content”

(Listener Q, [28:08])

Ash Content Defined: The mineral content left after burning flour; more refined flour = lower ash.
“White flour, for example, is like 0.55% ash content. And in France, that would be called a T55 flour.” — (Jessica, [29:30])
So What to Use?
- King Arthur All-Purpose flour = T55, best for croissants.
- “For a home baker…I don’t think [ash content] is hugely important information to know.” — (Jessica, [31:04])
- “The bottom line…is use an all-purpose flour, or if you are in France, a T55.” — (David, [31:35])

2. Is a Sheeter Worth It in the Home Kitchen?

(Listener Q, [32:22])

Sheeter Explained: A machine for rolling and laminating dough, most common in commercial bakeries.
“If you’re going to do it, you should probably make croissants without a sheeter...a dozen times, know that you really love making croissants at home before you invest in a sheeter.” — (David, [34:20])
Home Use: Great for cottage bakers or gear-heads, but a rolling pin suffices for most. ([34:20–35:12])

3. Best Butter for Croissants: European or American?

(Listener Q, [35:21])

Verdict: European-style butter is preferred due to higher fat content (“82–85% vs. 80%” for American).
“What that extra butter fat does is helps the butter remain pliable...ideally a butter that can, like, bend.” — (David, [36:11])

4. Jess Opinions: Trend Crimes

“A crime against humanity is the croissant that is stuffed and then topped with chocolate chip cookie dough. Why?” — (Jessica, [37:39])
The “twice-baked” almond croissant has tradition on its side. Cookie dough croissant? “Just leave it alone.” — (Jessica, [39:01])
Fun fact: Classic almond croissants are a creative way to revive day-old croissants, not a fresh-bake item.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“What you may be thinking of as the ideal croissant may not have been the ideal croissant 20 years ago.” (David, [03:07])
“Butter is the non-negotiable.” (Jessica, [05:59])
“The croissant is often used as...a scarcity bake.” (Jessica, [10:02])
On croissant proofing: “Look for that marshmallowy, pillowy feel...and if you can see the layers clearly, that's a sign that it's well-proofed.” (Elisabeth, [20:56])
“Trust the process because it is a process. And don’t be afraid to make mistakes.” (Elisabeth, [24:16])
“More butter, more better is our next T-shirt.” (Jessica, [37:02])
“A crime against humanity is the croissant that is stuffed and then also topped with chocolate chip cookie dough. Why?” (Jessica, [37:39])

Tools & Trends [13:19, 32:22, 34:20]

Sheeters & Professional Tools: Home bakers increasingly have access to professional-style equipment — but the consensus: try croissants a dozen times by hand before investing ($$ and space) in a home sheeter.
Sprinkles, Food Colors, On Demand Classes: King Arthur partners with Supernatural for dye-free sprinkles and promotes baking school’s on-demand lamination course for croissants and Danish ([26:47]).

What the Hosts Are Baking [40:23–42:51]

David: Wants to try “chiropin” (salt bread) — a trend “vaguely croissant-ish, but simpler.”
Jessica: Frequently makes weeknight Detroit pan pizza from the new King Arthur book—“pretty low stakes...feeds more people.” ([41:06])

Episode Takeaways

Croissants are a labor of love—but worth every buttery step for the adventurous home baker.
The fundamentals (pure butter, correct flour, careful proofing) matter more than any trend.
Innovation is fun, but classic techniques and restraint still win hearts.
Making mistakes is part of mastering croissants—embrace the process!

Timestamps for Key Segments

Croissant Texture & Evolution: [00:49–08:25]
Croissant Lore (French shape/fat): [06:36–07:57]
Croissant Trends & “Scarcity Bake”: [07:57–12:46]
Home Baking Challenges: [12:47–13:43]
Elisabeth Berthasavage Interview: [13:50–24:59]
Listener Flour Q&A: [28:08–31:35]
Gear/Sheeter Q&A: [32:22–35:12]
Butter Q&A: [35:21–37:02]
Jess Opinions on Croissant Crimes: [37:16–40:20]

For more detailed tutorials, on-demand classes, and recipes, visit kingarthurbaking.com.

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes the Perfect Croissant? [00:49–08:25]

Crisp, Shattering Texture: Jessica shares her “non-negotiable” for croissants: “The best croissants are the ones that you can’t eat without, like, destroying your outfit...where they're shatteringly crisp, lots of flaky shards of pastry, and you get them all over your shirt, all over your pants.” — (Jessica, [01:08])
Laminated Dough Demystified: David explains lamination (“You layer that with pure fat — with butter — and you roll it out. You do a series of folds, and you have a dough that's layered with butter, and it bakes up into a very crispy thing because the butter melts, lets off steam, and the steam creates flakes.” — [01:41])
Yeasted vs. Sourdough Croissants: Most croissants are yeasted for airiness; some sourdoughs exist, but yeasted is the standard. (Jessica & David, [02:30–02:55])
Changing Tastes: Croissants have evolved in the public imagination. “What you may be thinking of as the ideal croissant may not have been the ideal croissant 20 years ago.” — (David, [03:07])
Butter is Non-Negotiable: Only pure butter delivers the right taste. “The best croissants have always been made with pure butter.” — (Jessica, [06:03])

Croissant Culture: Shape and Lore [06:36–07:57]

French Croissant Custom: “In France, all-butter croissants are straight, whereas croissants with another fat are curved. It’s a way to identify authenticity.” — (Jessica, [06:39])

Innovation & Scarcity Bakes [07:57–12:46]

The “Cronut” Effect: Croissants as a base for wild innovation — from the famous cronut to batched croissant “loafs” and Supreme shapes, bakers have stretched the form.
Scarcity Bake & Croissant Theory: “The croissant is often used as what I call a scarcity bake…to drive demand, to build hype, to get people in line and sort of increase perceived value.” — (Jessica, [10:21])
Flavors & Fillings: “Now I feel like the fillings are…no longer just pain au chocolat, ham and cheese...it’s like yuzu chamomile...there’s just so much innovation happening both in form and flavor.” — (Jessica, [11:24])
The Gimmicky Risk: “I’m always a little skeptical when I see a croissant that’s rainbow-colored — like, this looks like a gimmick to me.” — (David, [11:59])

Croissants at Home: Challenges & Rewards [12:47–13:43]

Projects for the Passionate: Both hosts agree croissants at home are a considerable project, but incredibly rewarding for those who love a baking challenge.

Croissants with Elisabeth Berthasavage (Baking School Instructor)

[13:50–24:59]

Why Make Croissants at Home?

Cost and Experience: “The average cost of a croissant from a nice bakery is anywhere from four to eight dollars…. If you want this delicious pastry a couple of times a week—there you go, now you can’t afford your coffee.” — (Elisabeth, [14:08])
Intrinsic Joy: Many students are driven by the fun, challenge, or desire for mastery, not just the result. (David & Elisabeth, [14:51–15:51])

Home vs. Professional Croissant Baking

The Proofing Advantage: “The one thing that makes it easier in a commercial setting is the proof box. You have complete, almost complete control over what’s happening, the timing, temperature, humidity.” — (Elisabeth, [16:45])
Home Proofing Hack:
- Use the oven with the light on as a makeshift proof box.
- Add a mug of hot water for humidity.
- “Every 30 minutes...I’ll swap that [mug] out every 30 minutes.” — (Elisabeth, [17:43])
Proofing Croissants vs. Bread:
- “They should feel pillowy, marshmallowy. …Give that sheet pan a little shake, and it will just wobble back and forth.” — (Elisabeth, [19:34])

Proofing Tips & Signs

Look for:
- Clearly visible layers (you can peel them back a bit with your finger)
- Marshmallowy, pillowy feel
- Wobble/jiggle on the tray ([20:51–21:03])
Beware of Over/Underproofing:
- “A longer proof...can actually get that butter too soft, especially when you’re not in an environment that’s controlled with temperature. …If you get the butter too soft…that butter has a tendency to leak.…The texture…is going to be somewhat denser, somewhat chewier, a very lackluster oven spring.” — (Elisabeth, [22:10–23:22])

Elisabeth’s Number One Home-Baking Advice

“Trust the process because it is a process. And don’t be afraid to make mistakes—you got to learn from those mistakes. …Give yourself a pat on the back just for trying.” — (Elisabeth, [24:16])

Listener Q&A: Ask the Bakers [28:08–37:02]

1. Flour for Croissants: French T45/T55 and “Ash Content”

(Listener Q, [28:08])

Ash Content Defined: The mineral content left after burning flour; more refined flour = lower ash.
“White flour, for example, is like 0.55% ash content. And in France, that would be called a T55 flour.” — (Jessica, [29:30])
So What to Use?
- King Arthur All-Purpose flour = T55, best for croissants.
- “For a home baker…I don’t think [ash content] is hugely important information to know.” — (Jessica, [31:04])
- “The bottom line…is use an all-purpose flour, or if you are in France, a T55.” — (David, [31:35])

2. Is a Sheeter Worth It in the Home Kitchen?

(Listener Q, [32:22])

Sheeter Explained: A machine for rolling and laminating dough, most common in commercial bakeries.
“If you’re going to do it, you should probably make croissants without a sheeter...a dozen times, know that you really love making croissants at home before you invest in a sheeter.” — (David, [34:20])
Home Use: Great for cottage bakers or gear-heads, but a rolling pin suffices for most. ([34:20–35:12])

3. Best Butter for Croissants: European or American?

(Listener Q, [35:21])

Verdict: European-style butter is preferred due to higher fat content (“82–85% vs. 80%” for American).
“What that extra butter fat does is helps the butter remain pliable...ideally a butter that can, like, bend.” — (David, [36:11])

4. Jess Opinions: Trend Crimes

“A crime against humanity is the croissant that is stuffed and then topped with chocolate chip cookie dough. Why?” — (Jessica, [37:39])
The “twice-baked” almond croissant has tradition on its side. Cookie dough croissant? “Just leave it alone.” — (Jessica, [39:01])
Fun fact: Classic almond croissants are a creative way to revive day-old croissants, not a fresh-bake item.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“What you may be thinking of as the ideal croissant may not have been the ideal croissant 20 years ago.” (David, [03:07])
“Butter is the non-negotiable.” (Jessica, [05:59])
“The croissant is often used as...a scarcity bake.” (Jessica, [10:02])
On croissant proofing: “Look for that marshmallowy, pillowy feel...and if you can see the layers clearly, that's a sign that it's well-proofed.” (Elisabeth, [20:56])
“Trust the process because it is a process. And don’t be afraid to make mistakes.” (Elisabeth, [24:16])
“More butter, more better is our next T-shirt.” (Jessica, [37:02])
“A crime against humanity is the croissant that is stuffed and then also topped with chocolate chip cookie dough. Why?” (Jessica, [37:39])

Tools & Trends [13:19, 32:22, 34:20]

Sheeters & Professional Tools: Home bakers increasingly have access to professional-style equipment — but the consensus: try croissants a dozen times by hand before investing ($$ and space) in a home sheeter.
Sprinkles, Food Colors, On Demand Classes: King Arthur partners with Supernatural for dye-free sprinkles and promotes baking school’s on-demand lamination course for croissants and Danish ([26:47]).

What the Hosts Are Baking [40:23–42:51]

David: Wants to try “chiropin” (salt bread) — a trend “vaguely croissant-ish, but simpler.”
Jessica: Frequently makes weeknight Detroit pan pizza from the new King Arthur book—“pretty low stakes...feeds more people.” ([41:06])

Episode Takeaways

Croissants are a labor of love—but worth every buttery step for the adventurous home baker.
The fundamentals (pure butter, correct flour, careful proofing) matter more than any trend.
Innovation is fun, but classic techniques and restraint still win hearts.
Making mistakes is part of mastering croissants—embrace the process!

Timestamps for Key Segments

Croissant Texture & Evolution: [00:49–08:25]
Croissant Lore (French shape/fat): [06:36–07:57]
Croissant Trends & “Scarcity Bake”: [07:57–12:46]
Home Baking Challenges: [12:47–13:43]
Elisabeth Berthasavage Interview: [13:50–24:59]
Listener Flour Q&A: [28:08–31:35]
Gear/Sheeter Q&A: [32:22–35:12]
Butter Q&A: [35:21–37:02]
Jess Opinions on Croissant Crimes: [37:16–40:20]

For more detailed tutorials, on-demand classes, and recipes, visit kingarthurbaking.com.

We're in Our Croissant Era, with the Baking School's Elisabeth Berthasavage

Summary

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes the Perfect Croissant? [00:49–08:25]

Croissant Culture: Shape and Lore [06:36–07:57]

Innovation & Scarcity Bakes [07:57–12:46]

Croissants at Home: Challenges & Rewards [12:47–13:43]

Croissants with Elisabeth Berthasavage (Baking School Instructor)

Why Make Croissants at Home?

Home vs. Professional Croissant Baking

Proofing Tips & Signs

Elisabeth’s Number One Home-Baking Advice

Listener Q&A: Ask the Bakers [28:08–37:02]

1. Flour for Croissants: French T45/T55 and “Ash Content”

2. Is a Sheeter Worth It in the Home Kitchen?

3. Best Butter for Croissants: European or American?

4. Jess Opinions: Trend Crimes

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Tools & Trends [13:19, 32:22, 34:20]

What the Hosts Are Baking [40:23–42:51]

Episode Takeaways

Timestamps for Key Segments

Transcript

Summary

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Makes the Perfect Croissant? [00:49–08:25]

Croissant Culture: Shape and Lore [06:36–07:57]

Innovation & Scarcity Bakes [07:57–12:46]

Croissants at Home: Challenges & Rewards [12:47–13:43]

Croissants with Elisabeth Berthasavage (Baking School Instructor)

Why Make Croissants at Home?

Home vs. Professional Croissant Baking

Proofing Tips & Signs

Elisabeth’s Number One Home-Baking Advice

Listener Q&A: Ask the Bakers [28:08–37:02]

1. Flour for Croissants: French T45/T55 and “Ash Content”

2. Is a Sheeter Worth It in the Home Kitchen?

3. Best Butter for Croissants: European or American?

4. Jess Opinions: Trend Crimes

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Tools & Trends [13:19, 32:22, 34:20]

What the Hosts Are Baking [40:23–42:51]

Episode Takeaways

Timestamps for Key Segments