Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: "What Even is a Fall Bake?" (October 13, 2025)

Hosts: Jessica Battilana & David Tamarkin
Featured Guest: Rick Martínez

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the theme of "fall bakes"—what truly counts as essential autumn baking, how foods like pumpkin spice treats have become seasonal icons (and memes), and King Arthur’s quest to rank the 49 most essential fall bakes. The hosts are joined by King Arthur colleagues Rossi Nastapoulo and Tatiana Bautista to debate the definitive fall recipe list. The latter half of the episode features a cultural exploration of Pan de Muerto (Mexican Day of the Dead bread) with cookbook author Rick Martínez, and concludes with listener Q&As on cinnamon, homemade pumpkin purée, and the best apple varieties for pie.

Main Discussion & Insights

1. The Pumpkin Spice Phenomenon and Fall Baking Culture

Pumpkin Spice Creep:
- Jessica notes that Dunkin’ Donuts launched their pumpkin spice latte (PSL) on August 28th, highlighting the early and growing hype for fall flavors. (01:07)
- David and Jessica joke about the proliferation of "PSL" products, from hummus to deodorant—and even Spam. (02:25)
- Quote:
  
  “I do think...some of these PSL things are crimes against humanity...Like, I don't think PSL belongs in everything. Like, I don't think it belongs in deodorant. I don't think it belongs in beer.”
  — Jessica Battilana (03:07)
Authenticity vs. Trend:
- Jessica confesses she's not anti-spice, but skeptical of the PSL trend itself, preferring classic baking spices over branding hype. (03:28)
Fall Baking Urgency:
- Both hosts describe fall as a "fleeting" season that triggers an urgency to bake—cramming in pumpkin breads and apple pies before the cold truly sets in.
- Quote:
  
  “We have, like, one cool morning in Maine... and then I'm just like, oh, it's go time. Like, let's go pumpkin chocolate chip bread, let's go apple pie.”
  — Jessica Battilana (03:58)
- Baking becomes a checklist—a ritual marking the transition of the seasons. (05:14)

2. Creating (and Debating) the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List

The King Arthur editorial team wanted to democratize fall baking with a list that fans could reference—but creating it sparked controversy over what even counts as a "fall bake."
Tatiana and Rossi, charged with assembling and ranking the list, discuss their criteria (07:16):
- Classics (apple, pumpkin, cinnamon)
- Expanding beyond sweets to include savory, cozy, and holiday bakes (not just Thanksgiving foods)
- Desire to surprise bakers with new ideas, not only confirm expectations
Ranking Surprises:
- A recipe topped the list after not even making the original cut—a true "underdog story" that “went from off the list to number one.” (09:00)
- Quote:
  
  “This recipe wasn't even on that list...It went from off the list to number one, which was really crazy.”
  — Rossi Nastapoulo (09:13)
The list is intended not just as a checklist, but as inspiration for both homey tradition and delicious novelty.

3. Favorite Picks from the Fall Bakes List

Each panelist highlights their favorite from the list—with impassioned descriptions and personal backstories:

Tatiana:
- Chili Crisp Cottage Cheese Flatbreads — “To me, [fall] is a return to my kitchen… the flatbread is the gateway." (10:19)
Rossi:
- Sweet Potato Sheet Cake with Marshmallow Frosting — “Part of my North Carolina agenda is that sweet potatoes should just be consumed more in general... sometimes you want something different [than pumpkin].” (11:36)
Jessica:
- Champions sweet potato’s “judiciously enhanced” flavor over pumpkin, which she feels “does not really taste like much at all.” (12:31)
David:
- Honeybeer Miche (a hearty, beer-infused bread) —“It’s a perfect bread. It’s got that beer in there... these heartier flavors.” (12:57)
Jessica (again):
- Oatmeal Date Smash Cookies — “Not outright apple and pumpkin, but…dates’ caramelized sweetness as being a fall flavor.” (13:30)
Group tease:
- A certain “top 10” cookie is hailed as “truly one of the best cookies ever”—but its identity is kept secret, encouraging listeners to check the list. (14:06)

4. Cultural Feature: The Meaning of Pan de Muerto (with Rick Martínez)

Segment starts: 15:13

Bread for the Day of the Dead:
- David introduces Pan de Muerto, explaining its prominence in Mexican bakeries each fall.
Rick Martínez explains:
- The bread is “almost brioche”—enriched, soft, flavored with orange blossom, zest, or anise, and topped with symbolic crossbones and a sugar dome. (16:27)
- There are “hundreds, if not thousands” of regional variations—some are stuffed, fried, or paired with chocolate. (17:00)
- Pan de Muerto fuses European (Spanish) and indigenous Mesoamerican traditions—both centered on honoring life as cyclical, not final. (17:40)
- The bone and skull decorations symbolize a belief in continued existence; the sweet sugar symbolizes the sweetness of life and death.
  - Quote:
    
    “The sugar… represents this, the sweetness of life that includes our earthly life, but also the afterlife... even death is sweet.”
    — Rick Martínez (19:30)
- The bread’s resurgence as a “craze” is driven by Instagram-worthy innovations in flavor and appearance, though Rick laments superficialities. (21:00)
  - “I’m not super thrilled by it… for the most part, they’re not being created because it tastes good...it’s just gonna look good for the gram.”
    — Rick Martínez (21:59)
- Rick shares creative (and ancient) regional techniques, like making marigold sugar and using corn husk ashes ("ceniza") for black, glittery, subtly spiced sugar. (22:16)
- Pan de Muerto is a recipe in Rick’s first book (Mi Cocina), and he suggests sweet salsas or even tequila caramel as playful modern companions. (24:02, 24:19)

5. Listener Questions:

Segment starts: 26:20

Cinnamon Varieties (27:26):
- What’s the difference between Vietnamese and Indonesian cinnamon?
- Jessica explains: supermarket cinnamon is “cassia”, but Vietnamese (“Saigon”) cinnamon is much more aromatic, sharply spicy, “very cinnamony”—like turning Wizard of Oz black-and-white into Technicolor. Indonesian cinnamon is more "woodsy and earthy.”
  - Quote:
    
    “When you go from grocery store cinnamon to the Vietnamese cinnamon, it feels like that dramatic.”
    — Jessica Battilana (29:01)
Pumpkin Purée: Can You DIY? (30:23):
- Both hosts firmly say it’s not worth the fuss—homemade is stringy, unpredictable, and “perhaps even worse” than canned. Most recipes now are designed for canned purée.
  - Quote:
    
    “No, I was gonna say, like, hell no. Like, what a waste of time.”
    — Jessica Battilana (31:19)
Best Apples for Pie (32:33):
- Jessica recommends firm, sweet-tart apples that hold their shape: McCoon, Braeburn, or a mix for dimension. A “house blend” of varieties yields even better texture and flavor.
Apple Nerd-Out:
- Jessica shares the Maine discovery of America’s (possibly) oldest apple tree (over 200 years old!), and the story of fruit detective John Bunker, who hunts for endangered heirloom apples. (37:13)

6. Segment: Jess Opinions

Jessica’s Hot Take (40:01):

The list blurred the line between “fall bake” and “fall fry”—and omitted her favorite: King Arthur’s Fried Apple Pies (inspired by McDonald's, but homemade and “extraordinary”).
- Rossi and Tatiana say “no one wants to fry at home,” but Jessica fervently disagrees.
  - Quote:
    
    “The thing I think should be on the fall bake list...it is a fall fry. And that is our recipe for fried apple pies. Yep. And that's so good.”
    — Jessica Battilana (41:02)

7. What Are You Baking Next? (43:39)

Jessica: Supporting her son (and his enthusiasm) with King Arthur’s kids’ cookbook: upcoming bake—Ranch Monkey Bread.
David: Recommends Cinnamon Crisp Coffee Cake, a King Arthur classic perfect for fall weekends.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Pumpkin Purée:

“They were disappointed every time. They were like, can I get this in a can?...Life is hard enough. Open up that can of pumpkin.”
— David Tamarkin (31:49)
On PSL Overload:

“Some of these things are crimes against humanity. Like, I don't think PSL belongs in deodorant.”
— Jessica Battilana (03:07)
On Pan de Muerto:

“It's a very soft, pillowy bread… flavored with orange blossom, orange zest, or anise. The most commonly seen version is a dome-shaped bun with crossbones...and then sprinkled with sugar.”
— Rick Martínez (16:27)
On Social Media Food Trends:

“The crazier it is, the better, because you need eyeballs and views and likes.”
— Rick Martínez (21:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Opening and PSL Hot Takes: 01:07
Discussion of Fall Baking Checklists/List: 05:05
Creation of the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List: 06:36–09:57
Panelists’ Fall Bake Faves: 10:10–14:43
Pan de Muerto with Rick Martínez: 15:13–24:43
Listener Q&A: 26:20–39:49
- Cinnamon: 27:26
- Pumpkin purée: 30:23
- Pie apples: 32:33
- Apple tree lore (fruit detective): 37:13
Jess Opinions (Fried Apple Pies): 40:01
What Are You Baking Next: 43:39

Conclusions

Fall baking is more than a flavor trend—it's a ritual, a community, and a blend of nostalgia and new discoveries.
Despite spirited debate, the creation of King Arthur’s fall recipe list is about inspiring home bakers as much as drawing lines.
Classic flavors like apple, pumpkin, and cinnamon are perennial, but creative, regionally-inspired, and savory bakes are acquiring new fandom.
Foodways are deeply cultural: whether it’s the symbolism of Pan de Muerto or the role of food trends in the age of social media, baking reflects both heritage and zeitgeist.
The show artfully balances baking expertise, cultural stories, and the warm, competitive camaraderie of a baking-obsessed community.

Link to the 49 Best Fall Recipes (as referenced):
Available in the podcast show notes or at kingarthurbaking.com.

The episode delivers a mix of hearty laughter, tradition, opinionated nostalgia, expert insight, and practical kitchen wisdom—gentle enough for beginners, deep enough for baking nerds.

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: "What Even is a Fall Bake?" (October 13, 2025)

Hosts: Jessica Battilana & David Tamarkin
Featured Guest: Rick Martínez

Episode Overview

Main Discussion & Insights

1. The Pumpkin Spice Phenomenon and Fall Baking Culture

Pumpkin Spice Creep:
- Jessica notes that Dunkin’ Donuts launched their pumpkin spice latte (PSL) on August 28th, highlighting the early and growing hype for fall flavors. (01:07)
- David and Jessica joke about the proliferation of "PSL" products, from hummus to deodorant—and even Spam. (02:25)
- Quote:
  
  “I do think...some of these PSL things are crimes against humanity...Like, I don't think PSL belongs in everything. Like, I don't think it belongs in deodorant. I don't think it belongs in beer.”
  — Jessica Battilana (03:07)
Authenticity vs. Trend:
- Jessica confesses she's not anti-spice, but skeptical of the PSL trend itself, preferring classic baking spices over branding hype. (03:28)
Fall Baking Urgency:
- Both hosts describe fall as a "fleeting" season that triggers an urgency to bake—cramming in pumpkin breads and apple pies before the cold truly sets in.
- Quote:
  
  “We have, like, one cool morning in Maine... and then I'm just like, oh, it's go time. Like, let's go pumpkin chocolate chip bread, let's go apple pie.”
  — Jessica Battilana (03:58)
- Baking becomes a checklist—a ritual marking the transition of the seasons. (05:14)

2. Creating (and Debating) the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List

The King Arthur editorial team wanted to democratize fall baking with a list that fans could reference—but creating it sparked controversy over what even counts as a "fall bake."
Tatiana and Rossi, charged with assembling and ranking the list, discuss their criteria (07:16):
- Classics (apple, pumpkin, cinnamon)
- Expanding beyond sweets to include savory, cozy, and holiday bakes (not just Thanksgiving foods)
- Desire to surprise bakers with new ideas, not only confirm expectations
Ranking Surprises:
- A recipe topped the list after not even making the original cut—a true "underdog story" that “went from off the list to number one.” (09:00)
- Quote:
  
  “This recipe wasn't even on that list...It went from off the list to number one, which was really crazy.”
  — Rossi Nastapoulo (09:13)
The list is intended not just as a checklist, but as inspiration for both homey tradition and delicious novelty.

3. Favorite Picks from the Fall Bakes List

Each panelist highlights their favorite from the list—with impassioned descriptions and personal backstories:

Tatiana:
- Chili Crisp Cottage Cheese Flatbreads — “To me, [fall] is a return to my kitchen… the flatbread is the gateway." (10:19)
Rossi:
- Sweet Potato Sheet Cake with Marshmallow Frosting — “Part of my North Carolina agenda is that sweet potatoes should just be consumed more in general... sometimes you want something different [than pumpkin].” (11:36)
Jessica:
- Champions sweet potato’s “judiciously enhanced” flavor over pumpkin, which she feels “does not really taste like much at all.” (12:31)
David:
- Honeybeer Miche (a hearty, beer-infused bread) —“It’s a perfect bread. It’s got that beer in there... these heartier flavors.” (12:57)
Jessica (again):
- Oatmeal Date Smash Cookies — “Not outright apple and pumpkin, but…dates’ caramelized sweetness as being a fall flavor.” (13:30)
Group tease:
- A certain “top 10” cookie is hailed as “truly one of the best cookies ever”—but its identity is kept secret, encouraging listeners to check the list. (14:06)

4. Cultural Feature: The Meaning of Pan de Muerto (with Rick Martínez)

Segment starts: 15:13

Bread for the Day of the Dead:
- David introduces Pan de Muerto, explaining its prominence in Mexican bakeries each fall.
Rick Martínez explains:
- The bread is “almost brioche”—enriched, soft, flavored with orange blossom, zest, or anise, and topped with symbolic crossbones and a sugar dome. (16:27)
- There are “hundreds, if not thousands” of regional variations—some are stuffed, fried, or paired with chocolate. (17:00)
- Pan de Muerto fuses European (Spanish) and indigenous Mesoamerican traditions—both centered on honoring life as cyclical, not final. (17:40)
- The bone and skull decorations symbolize a belief in continued existence; the sweet sugar symbolizes the sweetness of life and death.
  - Quote:
    
    “The sugar… represents this, the sweetness of life that includes our earthly life, but also the afterlife... even death is sweet.”
    — Rick Martínez (19:30)
- The bread’s resurgence as a “craze” is driven by Instagram-worthy innovations in flavor and appearance, though Rick laments superficialities. (21:00)
  - “I’m not super thrilled by it… for the most part, they’re not being created because it tastes good...it’s just gonna look good for the gram.”
    — Rick Martínez (21:59)
- Rick shares creative (and ancient) regional techniques, like making marigold sugar and using corn husk ashes ("ceniza") for black, glittery, subtly spiced sugar. (22:16)
- Pan de Muerto is a recipe in Rick’s first book (Mi Cocina), and he suggests sweet salsas or even tequila caramel as playful modern companions. (24:02, 24:19)

5. Listener Questions:

Segment starts: 26:20

Cinnamon Varieties (27:26):
- What’s the difference between Vietnamese and Indonesian cinnamon?
- Jessica explains: supermarket cinnamon is “cassia”, but Vietnamese (“Saigon”) cinnamon is much more aromatic, sharply spicy, “very cinnamony”—like turning Wizard of Oz black-and-white into Technicolor. Indonesian cinnamon is more "woodsy and earthy.”
  - Quote:
    
    “When you go from grocery store cinnamon to the Vietnamese cinnamon, it feels like that dramatic.”
    — Jessica Battilana (29:01)
Pumpkin Purée: Can You DIY? (30:23):
- Both hosts firmly say it’s not worth the fuss—homemade is stringy, unpredictable, and “perhaps even worse” than canned. Most recipes now are designed for canned purée.
  - Quote:
    
    “No, I was gonna say, like, hell no. Like, what a waste of time.”
    — Jessica Battilana (31:19)
Best Apples for Pie (32:33):
- Jessica recommends firm, sweet-tart apples that hold their shape: McCoon, Braeburn, or a mix for dimension. A “house blend” of varieties yields even better texture and flavor.
Apple Nerd-Out:
- Jessica shares the Maine discovery of America’s (possibly) oldest apple tree (over 200 years old!), and the story of fruit detective John Bunker, who hunts for endangered heirloom apples. (37:13)

6. Segment: Jess Opinions

Jessica’s Hot Take (40:01):

The list blurred the line between “fall bake” and “fall fry”—and omitted her favorite: King Arthur’s Fried Apple Pies (inspired by McDonald's, but homemade and “extraordinary”).
- Rossi and Tatiana say “no one wants to fry at home,” but Jessica fervently disagrees.
  - Quote:
    
    “The thing I think should be on the fall bake list...it is a fall fry. And that is our recipe for fried apple pies. Yep. And that's so good.”
    — Jessica Battilana (41:02)

7. What Are You Baking Next? (43:39)

Jessica: Supporting her son (and his enthusiasm) with King Arthur’s kids’ cookbook: upcoming bake—Ranch Monkey Bread.
David: Recommends Cinnamon Crisp Coffee Cake, a King Arthur classic perfect for fall weekends.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Pumpkin Purée:

“They were disappointed every time. They were like, can I get this in a can?...Life is hard enough. Open up that can of pumpkin.”
— David Tamarkin (31:49)
On PSL Overload:

“Some of these things are crimes against humanity. Like, I don't think PSL belongs in deodorant.”
— Jessica Battilana (03:07)
On Pan de Muerto:

“It's a very soft, pillowy bread… flavored with orange blossom, orange zest, or anise. The most commonly seen version is a dome-shaped bun with crossbones...and then sprinkled with sugar.”
— Rick Martínez (16:27)
On Social Media Food Trends:

“The crazier it is, the better, because you need eyeballs and views and likes.”
— Rick Martínez (21:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

Opening and PSL Hot Takes: 01:07
Discussion of Fall Baking Checklists/List: 05:05
Creation of the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List: 06:36–09:57
Panelists’ Fall Bake Faves: 10:10–14:43
Pan de Muerto with Rick Martínez: 15:13–24:43
Listener Q&A: 26:20–39:49
- Cinnamon: 27:26
- Pumpkin purée: 30:23
- Pie apples: 32:33
- Apple tree lore (fruit detective): 37:13
Jess Opinions (Fried Apple Pies): 40:01
What Are You Baking Next: 43:39

Conclusions

Fall baking is more than a flavor trend—it's a ritual, a community, and a blend of nostalgia and new discoveries.
Despite spirited debate, the creation of King Arthur’s fall recipe list is about inspiring home bakers as much as drawing lines.
Classic flavors like apple, pumpkin, and cinnamon are perennial, but creative, regionally-inspired, and savory bakes are acquiring new fandom.
Foodways are deeply cultural: whether it’s the symbolism of Pan de Muerto or the role of food trends in the age of social media, baking reflects both heritage and zeitgeist.
The show artfully balances baking expertise, cultural stories, and the warm, competitive camaraderie of a baking-obsessed community.

Link to the 49 Best Fall Recipes (as referenced):
Available in the podcast show notes or at kingarthurbaking.com.

The episode delivers a mix of hearty laughter, tradition, opinionated nostalgia, expert insight, and practical kitchen wisdom—gentle enough for beginners, deep enough for baking nerds.

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What Even is a Fall Bake? featuring Rick Martínez

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Summary

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: "What Even is a Fall Bake?" (October 13, 2025)

Episode Overview

Main Discussion & Insights

1. The Pumpkin Spice Phenomenon and Fall Baking Culture

2. Creating (and Debating) the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List

3. Favorite Picks from the Fall Bakes List

4. Cultural Feature: The Meaning of Pan de Muerto (with Rick Martínez)

5. Listener Questions:

6. Segment: Jess Opinions

7. What Are You Baking Next? (43:39)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusions

The episode delivers a mix of hearty laughter, tradition, opinionated nostalgia, expert insight, and practical kitchen wisdom—gentle enough for beginners, deep enough for baking nerds.

Summary

Things Bakers Know: The King Arthur Baking Podcast

Episode: "What Even is a Fall Bake?" (October 13, 2025)

Episode Overview

Main Discussion & Insights

1. The Pumpkin Spice Phenomenon and Fall Baking Culture

2. Creating (and Debating) the 49 Essential Fall Bakes List

3. Favorite Picks from the Fall Bakes List

4. Cultural Feature: The Meaning of Pan de Muerto (with Rick Martínez)

5. Listener Questions:

6. Segment: Jess Opinions

7. What Are You Baking Next? (43:39)

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Conclusions

The episode delivers a mix of hearty laughter, tradition, opinionated nostalgia, expert insight, and practical kitchen wisdom—gentle enough for beginners, deep enough for baking nerds.