Podcast Summary: Think Fast Talk Smart - Episode 189: "Numbers Need Narrative: Use Data to Influence and Inspire"

Introduction

In Episode 189 of Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques, host Matt Abrahams engages in a compelling conversation with Miro Kazakoff, an esteemed author, entrepreneur, and Senior Lecturer in Managerial Communication at the MIT Sloan School of Management. The episode delves into the strategic use of data in communication, emphasizing how numbers can be transformed into persuasive narratives to influence and inspire decision-makers.

The Power of Data in Communication

Miro Kazakoff opens the discussion by challenging the conventional perception of data as purely objective. He asserts, “Data's objective, but fundamentally people are not” (02:29). Kazakoff emphasizes that while data presents facts, the interpretation and impact of data are subject to the subjective filters of the audience. Thus, leveraging data effectively requires a deep understanding of how the audience processes information and makes decisions.

Understanding Your Audience

A recurring theme in the episode is the critical importance of knowing your audience. Kazakoff advises that to craft compelling narratives with data, one must start with empathy and a thorough understanding of the audience's decision-making processes. He states, “The key is going to come down to understanding your audience” (02:29). This involves asking insightful questions like, “What kind of decisions do you make?” and “What would you need to know in order to change the decision that you're making?” Such questions help communicators tailor their data presentation to meet the specific needs and preferences of their audience.

Making Data Accessible

One of the challenges discussed is avoiding the numbing effect of overwhelming numbers in presentations. Kazakoff introduces the concept of the "curse of knowledge," explaining that experts often struggle to present data in a way that is easily digestible for non-experts. He suggests, “The key is other people is actually getting, and especially with data, getting it in front of other people” (06:26). Collaborating with individuals who are not intimately familiar with the data can provide valuable insights into making the information more accessible and relatable.

To combat information overload, Kazakoff recommends prioritizing clarity over quantity: “The right way to show the data is very, very clearly” (07:13). He contrasts dense tables with more visually intuitive graphs, highlighting that graphs can quickly convey comparisons and trends without sacrificing precision.

Contextualizing Data

Providing appropriate context is essential for making data meaningful. Kazakoff shares a rule inspired by Barbara Minto’s Minto Pyramid: “Context should only be things that this audience already agrees are true” (09:10). This approach ensures that the audience can build upon a shared understanding without being bogged down by unrelated or contentious information.

He further illustrates the importance of contextualizing data with a personal anecdote: “I worked with a very senior leader of an international bank... I asked, what does that number mean? Well, they did some quick math and came back and said, it's roughly 25% of the world's money” (11:54). This example underscores how adding meaningful context can transform abstract figures into comprehensible and impactful information.

Storytelling with Data

Transitioning to the role of storytelling, Kazakoff emphasizes that data-driven stories must be logically structured and relevant. He introduces the Minto Pyramid as a tool for organizing logical arguments and ensuring clarity. “The thing to focus on first is getting focused on what's relevant, right. Having really clear, logical support” (14:24).

For broader audiences, such as company CEOs, storytelling becomes paramount. However, for highly technical audiences, logic and clarity may take precedence over narrative elements. Kazakoff notes, “For most folks trying to make quantitative, well-grounded decisions, the needle's going to point a little more towards that technical end” (15:30).

Common Pitfalls and Pet Peeves

Towards the end of the conversation, Matt Abrahams invites Kazakoff to share his pet peeves regarding data communication. Kazakoff expresses frustration with presenters who muddle data with irrelevant stories or overload their presentations with excessive information: “I cannot stand when I give a piece of feedback or I see something and someone goes, but it's a good story” (16:09). He criticizes the tendency to prioritize storytelling over data accuracy and logical coherence, emphasizing that effective communication should maintain a balance between narrative and factual integrity.

Admired Communicators

Kazakoff cites Michael Lewis, renowned author of Moneyball and The Big Short, as a communicator he admires. He praises Lewis’s prose for being unobtrusive and clear, likening effective data slides to Lewis’s writing style: “They don't call attention to the data. They're a window to the phenomenon that the data is trying to show” (17:48). This comparison highlights the ideal of creating transparent and intuitive data presentations that allow the information to speak for itself.

Key Ingredients for Successful Communication

In response to Matt’s final question, Kazakoff outlines three essential ingredients for successful communication:

1. Assume You're Blind: Recognize that your perception of information is unique and may differ significantly from your audience's perspective. “Assume that what you see is not what other people see” (18:44).

2. Know Your Audience: Deeply understand who your audience is and how they process information. This involves dedicating time to comprehend their experiences and expectations.

3. Focus on Structure: Establish a clear logical framework that aligns with the audience’s needs. “Get your logical framework right. Get focused on what this audience needs to know and really clearly what is the evidence that is needed to support this fully, but not beyond that” (18:44).

Kazakoff emphasizes that these principles not only apply to data presentation but are fundamental to all forms of effective communication.

Conclusion

Episode 189 of Think Fast Talk Smart offers invaluable insights into the strategic use of data in communication. Miro Kazakoff underscores the importance of empathy, audience understanding, and logical structuring in crafting data-driven narratives that are both persuasive and impactful. By avoiding common pitfalls such as information overload and irrelevant storytelling, communicators can harness the power of numbers to inspire and influence effectively.

Notable Quotes

• “Data's objective, but fundamentally people are not.” — Miro Kazakoff (02:29)
• “Assume that what you see is not what other people see.” — Miro Kazakoff (18:44)
• “The right way to show the data is very, very clearly.” — Miro Kazakoff (07:13)
• “Stories are used in lots of venues... when somebody just creates a story that's not based on the data, it can be frustrating.” — Miro Kazakoff (16:09)

Timestamps Overview

• 00:01 - 02:14: Introduction and initial remarks
• 02:14 - 04:02: Data as a tool for persuasion
• 04:02 - 07:13: Understanding and listening to the audience
• 07:13 - 09:10: Making data accessible and avoiding information overload
• 09:10 - 13:29: Contextualizing data effectively
• 14:24 - 15:30: Storytelling with data
• 15:30 - 19:54: Common pitfalls, admired communicators, and key communication ingredients
• 19:54 - 20:29: Closing remarks

By adhering to Kazakoff’s strategies, professionals can enhance their ability to communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact, thereby advancing their careers and fostering stronger professional relationships.