Dan Heath (3:59)

Yeah, you build that curiosity. But also, when you were describing the problem, you didn't just itemize the different things. You actually really reinforced it. I love the point where you said, hey, UPS can do it in a day or two. That really adds a magnifier to what's coming. So I appreciated that part.

Paul Suet (4:17)

So Paul Suet comes in. He's our protagonist. We talked about simulation and inspiration, right? So now we're walking in Paul Suet's shoes. First thing he does is he says, what problems can I solve for you? What's getting in your way? And so the team's giving him a laundry list of complaints and obstacles, some of them quite mundane, like, well, the wheels on the carts that we push around are sometimes real stuck and jangly. So Suet says, instantly, we'll get you new carts, new wheels, whatever you need. He's trying to just show them that he's on their team. He's not the know it all coming in to, quote, unquote, fix things. And he invites them into the detective work. So every day for an hour a day, 12 days in a row, they stop what they're doing and they just walk the line from where the packages come in, through all the stations to the eventual destination. They're noticing Things, what's delaying operations, what's blocking us? The number one thing that pops out of this process is they have unwittingly used batch processes where they are not needed. We all use batch process. Nobody runs a single sock in the washer and dryer, and nobody runs a single spoon in the dishwasher. So we get the value of batch processes. But they were doing this to a fault. So the idea was, let's wait until a bunch of packages build up on the receiving dock, and then we'll do the scanning into inventory all at once. Like, that'll be quote, unquote efficient. But what Suet helped them realize is that there was no natural, organic reason to have these delays. That, as he said, the system should flow like a river and we should be able to take a package and have it flow along, and we should be removing friction, removing obstacles from its way. And so it's like this, aha. Experience. They set about completely changing the way they work. Within 12 weeks, they're delivering 90% of the packages in one day. Something nobody thought imaginable, much less practical. People start visiting the receiving area to learn what they've done. And so, again, if you zoom out of the story for a second, there is zero of natural intrinsic value in any of these details. I mean, I said the phrase batch processes and you didn't immediately go to sleep. Right? Which is. That's the power of story. Right? Is once we see a protagonist and a challenge and some stakes that matter, like, we're in it.

Dan Heath (6:31)

But with that batch processing, you did something I think, which is very masterful, is you didn't define it.

Matt Abrahams (6:36)

You didn't say, here's what a batch process is.

Dan Heath (6:37)

Because many people know what it is, but they don't know that term. But you just said, we don't wash one sock. We don't put one spoon in the dishwasher. That was a great way of explaining something without actually breaking it down and saying, now I'm explaining it. You do a great job of hooking us in and diagnosing and describing for us what you do. I'm curious, how do you find these stories? How did you find Paul Hewitt? Did you know him? Did somebody point you to him? Did you? Were you in that hospital? How did you find that story?

Paul Suet (7:06)

This is the most frustrating and rewarding aspect of the work, is the majority of the way I spend my time as a writer is finding stories like that. I spend a lot of time figuring out, what am I trying to say to the reader? How am I Going to arm them with principles to make their life or their work better. That's part one. And then part two is how can I hang those principles on stories that are more compelling than me just yammering on about systems and operations and so forth. And it is like panning for gold. I mean, you've probably experienced this too. There is no reliable process for finding great stories. It is just you gotta go shake the trees every day and then the next day you wake up and you do it again. This particular story was written up in a business school case and there was a very heavy operation spin on it. But there was so much that was interesting in the details that my team and I, we decided to re report the whole thing. So I, one of my colleagues actually flew to Evanston and met with Paul Seward and saw the operations and took pictures. And in that case it was like taking a different spin on a story someone else had already spotted. And in a lot of other cases in the book, it was just a byproduct of you have 10 conversations to get down to that one story that really connects.

Dan Heath (8:17)

I like though that you start with an idea, a goal of what you're trying to achieve, and the goal is to really help people and to clearly explain it and then find stories and other tools that can help get that across. And I think a lot of people skip that step and they just try to jump to the information without having a clear goal up front.

Paul Suet (8:35)

Yeah, for me, stories are just like a vessel to get messages across in a reader friendly way. So it's like what that Northwestern story did for me at the start of the book. Was it just. It brought to bear a bunch of themes that even people that are not in hospital receiving areas can recognize. What is it like to be part of a system that's stuck? And what is it like to endure subpar performance but feel like you're powerless to affect it and have other people in the hospital judge you? The pariahs of the hospital was a quote that came out. And what is it like to be able to undo that by finding leverage points in complicated systems and seeing how things can change actually surprisingly quickly if you find the right places to push.

Dan Heath (9:18)

So it really sets expectations for what's to come, not just in terms of what you'll be talking about in the book, but how the reader or listener will be engaged and how we set our audience's expectations up front can really make a big difference. One of the things that frustrates me so much is speakers or people who run meetings who start by saying I want this to be very engaging and get you all involved and then they talk at you for 45 minutes. What you do in your books and in this example is you get us engaged from the get go and that brings us along with you.

Matt Abrahams (9:50)

Thank you for joining us for a quick thanks episode of Think Fast Talk Smart the podcast to learn more about storytelling. Please listen to our non traditional Storytellers miniseries in episodes 170 and 171. This episode was produced by Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder with special thanks to the Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider our Premium offering for extended Deep thanks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings and much more at fastersmarter IO Premium.