210. First Impression to Lasting Impact: Use Status Strategically

Summary

Podcast Summary: Think Fast Talk Smart - Episode 210

Title: First Impression to Lasting Impact: Use Status Strategically
Host: Matt Abrahams
Guest: Allison Fregale, University of North Carolina’s Business School
Release Date: June 17, 2025

---

In Episode 210 of Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques, host Matt Abrahams delves deep into the strategic use of status in communication with guest Allison Fregale, a renowned academic specializing in power, status, and influence within organizations. This episode offers invaluable insights into how individuals can harness the interplay between power and status to create lasting impressions and foster meaningful professional relationships.

Defining Power and Status

Allison Fregale begins by elucidating the fundamental differences and similarities between power and status:

• Power: Defined as the control over resources that are valuable to oneself and others. Examples include financial resources, decision-making authority, or even simple aspects like holding the car keys that a teenager desires. Fregale explains, “Power and status have some things in common. One is they're both sources of influence” ([02:42]).

• Status: Described as the level of respect and admiration one receives from others. Unlike power, status is a perceptual attribute—it cannot be taken but must be granted by others. “Status is how much you're respected and highly regarded by other people,” Fregale clarifies ([02:42]).

Both power and status are intrinsic sources of influence and fulfill fundamental human needs for control and respect. However, Fregale emphasizes that while power can be exerted regardless of others' opinions, status relies entirely on the audience’s perception and willingness to grant it.

Prioritizing Status Over Power

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the often-overlooked importance of status as a precursor to effective power utilization:

• Power First Mentality: Fregale critiques the common approach where individuals prioritize accumulating power without cultivating status. “There’s a mentality that I hear... As long as I can have the resources... I don’t really care if people respect me or not,” she observes ([02:42]).

• Interdependence of Power and Status: She argues that status facilitates easier acquisition and effective use of power. Without status, wielding power can lead to resistance and a generally negative experience. “When we are not respected by our audiences, it makes acquiring power... a lot harder to achieve,” Fregale notes ([02:42]).

Communication Tactics for Warmth and Assertiveness

Fregale introduces the concept of being a "Likable Badass," a balance of warmth and assertiveness essential for building status:

• Warmth (Building Status): Conveyed through verbal and non-verbal cues such as smiling, maintaining eye contact, and mimicking others’ body language. “Smiling conveys warmth. Eye contact conveys warmth. So mimicry conveys warmth,” she explains ([06:39]).

• Assertiveness (Exuding Power): Achieved through behaviors like faster speech rates and shorter response latencies, which signal confidence and capability. “Shorter the gap, the more assertive I’m perceived to be,” Fregale states ([06:39]).

She emphasizes that authentic expression of care and competence through these communication strategies can significantly enhance one’s status and influence.

Avoiding Detrimental Habits

Fregale warns against common communication habits that may undermine one’s status, such as self-deprecation. “If you tell somebody you’re not very good at something, they generally believe you... you’re saying, I’m not capable,” she cautions ([06:39]).

The Role of Mentorship in Building Status

Mentorship emerges as a critical element in developing effective communication skills:

• Learning from Mentors: Fregale shares her experience with a mentor who modeled the balance of clarity, assertiveness, and respect. “She taught me to think about my audience... how to be very clear and assertive about what it is that you want, while also never faltering from the importance of doing right by other people,” she reflects ([11:39]).

• Seeking and Providing Mentorship: She advocates for actively seeking mentors and mentoring others to continuously refine communication strategies and receive constructive feedback.

Building Relationships in Professional Settings

Addressing a transition to a more business-focused role, Fregale offers strategies to maintain relationship-building amidst a culture that favors directness over small talk:

• Balancing Personal and Business Interactions: “Try a combination of both. You can experiment, you can change a variable, you can see what happens,” she advises ([14:08]).

• Finding Common Ground: Emphasizing authenticity, she suggests researching colleagues to find genuine points of similarity, thereby fostering authentic connections. “Greatest basis of liking and attraction... is similarity,” Fregale notes ([14:08]).

• Strategic Authenticity: Using the story of Greg Northcraft, who leveraged shared interests like golf to build rapport, she illustrates how strategic actions can lead to authentic and beneficial relationships.

Navigating First Impressions and Their Impact

Fregale discusses the lasting effects of first impressions and how to amend them if they fall short:

• Flexibility in Changing Impressions: “First impressions change... you’ve changed your mind about people, so they’ll change their mind about you,” she explains ([19:50]).

• Using Advocates: She recommends leveraging respected individuals within an organization to help reshape perceptions. “Change the messenger,” Fregale suggests, by having a respected third party vouch for you ([20:19]).

Closing Insights and Future Directions

In the concluding section, Fregale shares her ongoing research interests and personal reflections:

• Current Research: Focused on retaining women in mid to senior levels within organizations by enhancing status to mitigate interpersonal mistreatment. “How do we create a better experience for women in the workforce... that are going to keep them advancing and keep better representation at the most senior levels,” she states ([22:07]).

• Admired Communicator: She expresses admiration for her advisor, Maggie Neal, highlighting the balance of assertiveness and respect she embodies. “What would Maggie do here? She can be very clear and assertive while doing right by others,” Fregale praises ([23:35]).

• Key Ingredients for Successful Communication: Authenticity, strategy, and curiosity. Fregale emphasizes that understanding one’s audience through curiosity enhances both authenticity and strategic communication. “The more curious you are about your audience, the better able you are to communicate,” she explains ([24:50]).

Notable Quotes

• “Power and status have some things in common. One is they're both sources of influence.” ([02:42] Allison Fregale)

• “Smiling conveys warmth. Eye contact conveys warmth. So mimicry conveys warmth.” ([06:39] Allison Fregale)

• “If you tell somebody you’re not very good at something, they generally believe you. You’re saying, I’m not capable in this domain.” ([06:39] Allison Fregale)

• “Greatest basis of liking and attraction... is similarity.” ([14:08] Allison Fregale)

• “Change the messenger.” ([20:19] Allison Fregale)

Conclusion

Episode 210 offers a profound exploration of how strategically leveraging status alongside power can transform professional interactions and outcomes. Allison Fregale provides actionable strategies grounded in psychological research, emphasizing authenticity, the cultivation of respect, and the importance of understanding one’s audience. Listeners are equipped with practical tools to enhance their communication, build stronger relationships, and navigate complex social dynamics in both personal and professional spheres.

---

For more detailed insights and actionable communication techniques, subscribe to Think Fast Talk Smart and tune in every Tuesday for new episodes.

Transcript

[Matt Abrahams]

I have always been amazed by and a bit jealous of my friends, colleagues and students who can speak multiple languages. I regret that I did not keep up my foreign language that I learned in school. I'm happy to say that I am now working on this. To help me, I use the Babbel app. Babbel provides me with quick lessons, just 10 to 15 minutes per day and since Babbel is built with science backed cognitive tools that fit with all learning styles, it helps me stay motivated with real time feedback, handy visualizations and progress trackers. I'm learning and having fun. Babel is offering a special deal for Think Fast Talk Smart listeners so you can get started right now. Visit babel.com thinkfast and get up to 55% off your Babel subscription. That's babel.com thinkfast to start your language learning today. What do you get when you combine warmth and assertiveness? You get a Likable Badass My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach Strategic Communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. Today we're excited to speak with Allison Fregale. Alison works at the University of North Carolina's Business School. She studies and teaches determinants of consequences of power, status and influence, organizations, conflict resolution and negotiations, and she focuses on the verbal and non verbal elements of communication. Her newest book is Likable Badass How Women get the Success They Deserve. I could think of no better person to interview Allison than our own executive producer and likable badass, Jenny Luna. Here's Jenny. Before we get started, I'm excited to share that our June newsletter is now available. Not only does it contain our new book reading list for the first part of 2025, but it also has an expert article on how to participate in and moderate panels. You can find our newsletter on LinkedIn or at fastersmarter IO under resources.

[Jenny Luna]

Hi Alison, it's so great to have you on Think Fast Talk Smart.

[Allison Fregale]

Awesome to be here.

[Jenny Luna]

In your book you write a lot about power and status and we've talked about both extensively on this show. But tell me how you define each. And something you wrote in your book that really caught my attention was it's less than ideal when we have this power first status second mentality.

[Allison Fregale]

So power is controlling resources that have value to you, value to others. So money is a resource. The ability to hire and fire is a resource. If you hold car keys and your teenager wants to drive a car, that's a resource. So you are in control of something that has Value to you and other people. That is how psychologists generally talk about power. Status is how much you're respected and highly regarded by other people. Power and status have some things in common. One is they're both sources of influence. If you control the information, if you control the budget, if you control my performance review, I'm much more likely to do what you say because those resources matter to me and I want them. So you are going to have some influence over what I do. Similarly, if I look at you and I think I really respect you and value you, I'm much more likely to listen to what you say. I'm going to trust that your ideas are good. So power and status are both sources of influence. And they're also similar in that they are fundamental human needs. All human beings want to be respected. All human beings want to have some control over resources that matter not necessarily everything, but they want to control something. The difference is that one, you can control resources even if people oppose you. With status, it's a judgment in other people's minds. You can't steal it, you can't have it without their willing consent. You only get as much status as other people think you have and other people want you to have. This is one important difference. And the other one which you were talking about that I talk about the book power first, status second. There's no doubt that we have talked about power and coach people for a long time on getting more power. There's a mentality that I hear, and some people will even say it out loud. As long as I can have the resources, if I can be in charge, if I can be paid, if I can advance, if I can get to be in control, I don't really care if people respect me or not. I don't really care what they think about me. Because I'm winning, I get what I want. It doesn't feel good to not be respected. But the challenge with status is that it makes power a lot easier to achieve, and it makes power a lot easier to use. Meaning we generally don't want to give resources to people what we don't respect. Why would I give valuable things to you if I don't respect you? So when we are not respected by our audiences, it makes acquiring power to advance, to get paid things that I talk to people a lot about, particularly women, makes it a lot harder to achieve. And even if you have the power, you get a lot more resistance. Because we don't like power being in the hands of people we don't respect. And so the Experience of having power and lacking status ends up being a very miserable experience for most people.

[Jenny Luna]

It sounds like we want to focus on getting the respect of our audience and people first.

[Allison Fregale]

They're both important. But if you ignore status and you just are pursuing a life of power, one, you're not going to be that successful. And even if you do succeed, you're going to get a lot of pushback. Whereas if you pursue status before, or at least alongside power, everything is going to fall into place, right? People are going to be much more willing to give you those resources. And when you have them, people are going to be much more interested in allowing you to use them and doing what you say. It's not to downgrade power and say power is not important. It is. We've been talking a lot about it relative to the very little conversation we have about status, which is not only important, it's also essentially a prerequisite. If you are respected by your audience, all the other good things are just going to start to come a lot easier.

[Jenny Luna]

This show, it's all about communication, and our audience really likes tools and techniques that they can start applying to their life right away. So what are some tactics for speaking and then even some nonverbal ways of communicating that you think we can use to be more likable and more badass?

[Allison Fregale]

So I'll take a step back and answer your question, which is, as it said, likable, badass. Catchy term, but it's referencing something specific. It is referencing where does status come from. And so the idea is that this is a communication process. I show up in the world and I do something, and if it convinces you that you respect me, what convinces you that you should respect me? Two things. One is, do you care about people other than yourself? So if I communicate to my audience that I care about them and at least care about somebody that's not just me, we respect that. We don't want to interact with selfish people or competitive people who are going to hurt us. We want to interact with people who are going to make our lives better. So that's one thing we have to communicate. Second, people can rely on us that we know what we're doing in some capacity. Even if I think you care, if I can't trust you to execute anything, well, I'm not really going to respect you because I can't depend on you. So likable and badass psychologists would call it warmth and assertiveness. I need to convince you that I care and I can take charge of my environment and I know what I'm doing. Those are your two communication challenges too. Build your status. You asked about words and verbals and nonverbals. It can come through those behaviors. It can also come through actions. All different ways in which we show up. What are non verbals that are going to convey warmth? Smiling conveys warmth. Eye contact conveys warmth. So mimicry conveys warmth. If you cross your legs and I cross my legs, that's a warmth behavior. Assertiveness to control of our environment. Faster rates of speech, what we call shorter response latency. There's always a gap between when you stop speaking and when I start. And the shorter that gap, the more assertive I'm perceived to be. I didn't have to think very long about my answer. I had it ready to go. It's a sign of capability. Contact is a sign of warmth, but it is also the sign of assertiveness. When I first started doing this kind of status work, I looked at the para verbal cues. I'll use women because women are often counseled. Don't use all the hedges and disclaimers and tag questions. That stuff's bad. Do. The more direct communication, the less direct when I hedge, when I put in disclaimers, when I turn sentences into questions, that does build warmth. It's seen as a warmer behavior. But the more assertive. There are no filler words. I say exactly what I mean. Every statement ends in a period. Every question ends in a question mark. That behavior is seen as more assertive. So those kinds of behaviors that we exhibit do affect people's belief that we care about them and that we know what we're doing. Those are not the only ways. There are all kinds of other things that we do. The content, for example, of the communication is also really important for signaling those things.

[Jenny Luna]

It sounds like there's a bunch of tools as we approach different situations and different people, when we're trying to either show power, warmth, and both at the same time.

[Allison Fregale]

There's the non negotiables and the negotiable. The non negotiable is every time you show up in front of an audience, whether that's an audience of one, an audience of many, whether it's in person or virtual, on social media, whatever your audience is, when you show up in front of them in ways that convey you care about them and you know what you're talking about, you, you will build status. That's the non negotiable part that everyone is trying to achieve. How do I do that? That's where you have infinite ways. And so those tools that you talk about, verbal and non verbal communication, it's good to be aware of them because you want to know, do I have behaviors that are working for me or might I actually have some habits that I'm not particularly aware of that are detracting from my status and I don't even know that I do it? One example that I've been made aware of is self deprecating. So actually voluntarily put out a statement that says, I am terrible at something. People do that all the time. If you tell somebody you're not very good at something, they generally believe you. And so you're saying, I'm not capable in this domain. And we do that for a variety of reasons. Sometimes we do it to convey warmth, to say, oh, I'm not better than you. Look at all my mistakes too. Sometimes we do it as a form of humor. But it's all to say that many times we might be doing something that is detrimental to building our status and we're not aware of what it is, and therefore we're not even in a position to decide is this authentic and true to who I am and I'm sticking with it anyway, or no, I actually think I should change that.

[Jenny Luna]

Another thing we talk about on the show is feedback. When we're trying to see how we show up, we may be missing things and having big blind spots. You write a lot about mentorship and having a mentor. I imagine a big part of that is getting feedback on things like how we show up.

[Allison Fregale]

Yeah, my big thing on mentorship is at every stage of your life, you should have mentors and you should be mentoring other people from your first day in the workforce, if not before, and certainly your last day. We always need to be doing both. And on the getting mentorship side, yes. One of the things that I have found is that people who find it fairly easy to communicate likable, badass, to communicate assertiveness more at the same time, almost always without fail, will tell me that they lucked into a mentor early in their life or career that modeled that for them. And that mentorship shouldn't just be something we luck into by chance. For me, I talk about this a lot, that my advisor, when I went to Stanford, when I got my Ph.D. is a woman. And what was interesting was I signed on to work with her because of content expertise, that she was an expert in organizational psychology in the areas where I also wanted to develop expertise. I didn't pick her up because I thought she could teach me a lot about building status and navigating reputation and things like that. But when I think back on what did she teach me that has been most impactful in my career? It's not the academic stuff. What she was really brilliant at doing was thinking about with intention, the relationship between how she communicated with her audience, her words, her actions, her verbals, nonverbals, all of that, and what that would bring to her. And she was able to articulate that to me at a young age of here's how you need to think about your audience.

[Jenny Luna]

So sounds like we want to look for people who emulate what we are looking to be more so than have the job or the role that we currently have. I've been really looking forward to talking with you because I just started a new job. In my new job, I'm filling my calendar, coffee dates, forming relationships, walking meetings, getting to know people. And the first thing I'm noticing is in my former role, there was a lot more small talk, a lot more relationship building that came in these early meetings. My new role, people cut right to the chase. They want to just talk business. There's no personal questions or really foundation to be laid. So I would love to hear some advice from you on do I revert and push that culture away of getting to know people and trying to set relationships, or do I go more for the mimicry and meet people where they're at?

[Allison Fregale]

Try a combination of both. You can experiment, you can change a variable, you can see what happens. You don't have to do one thing consistently with every person forever. So what might I try? We often follow people's leads. So if you go in and you are the first mover in the conversation and you start with a couple personal things or a couple of questions, you can see what response you get. If you are quiet when you walk in and they cut straight to the business, it might feel more awkward at that point to be like, wait, let's go back a minute. You can try to control the conversation from the beginning while still being sensitive to conversational norms, where you get a sense of someone says, I've had enough of this line of questioning, and they're ready to move on. The second thing you can think about is you're playing a repeated game. So if someone in initial interaction is very focused on the task at hand and you think, wow, there wasn't much opportunity there, what else could I do for a second round? People's lives are largely online, so you can, in a very appropriate way, stalk somebody and learn a lot about Them that gives you an opportunity in the next interaction to lead with something that might get them interested in talking about things that are a little more personal. That could be from looking at their social media, reading their bio on the company website. It could be talking to people who know them. And what you would be looking for is points of similarity. If we look at psychology, right, Greatest basis of liking and attraction that psychology has ever found is similarity. We like people who are like us when you find the thing that they have in common. Obviously when you're trying to highlight similarities, you have to be authentic. You can't pretend to like things you don't. It's going to come across as phony. It's going to destroy the relationship. But you can also be very strategic in looking for opportunities. So in the book, I tell a story of another academic, Greg Northcraft. I know Greg through Maggie Neal. Greg and Maggie were assistant professors back at Arizona together long before I met her. And then I come into his circle as well. And so what he tells me is that one of the things he feels like he did really well in navigating his life as a professional in academia is developing personal connections with people by figuring out genuine points of similarity. And he said, look, I love to golf. And so the first thing I always try to do is figure out, does the other person like to golf? Because I know if I can meet a fellow golfer, I can make a friend. And if I can make a friend, I'm going to have a much easier time getting what I want and need because people will do things for friends that they won't do for. For strangers. He develops a consistent habit of trying to find the common points between him and his audience wherever he goes. He tells me this story, which I relate in the book. And he said the time that it worked better than ever was I had to go meet somebody on campus. The subject was scarce resources, scarce money. Every reason to think there was going to be a bit of a fight because everybody wants the money. He said. But I did something intentional. I had the status to ask this guy to come to my office, but I deliberately said, let's schedule the meeting in your office. He said, I'll come to you. And he said, I did that for one reason only. I wanted to scan his physical space because then I could learn about him and then I could strike up a personal connection. So he says, I'm shaking his hand, and as I'm doing it, I'm looking over his shoulder like, what's in this guy's office? And he says, you're not going to believe it. In the guy's office behind the desk is a hole in one trophy. Said, if you're a golfer and you ever see a hole in one trophy, two things are true. One, there's a great story behind that trophy, and the person behind the desk is just dying to tell you what it is. So this idea of, how do I get people to chit chat? He made the opening, I see you've got a hole in one trophy. You've got to tell me about that. And he knows the person can't wait to tell. And he says, we spend 55 of our allotted 60 minutes chatting golf, and by that point we are friends. And we take five minutes and we solve our money problem amicably in those last five minutes. And so I tell that story, I tell the book, I tell it all the time in front of audiences. And what I love about it is it's beautiful blend of authenticity and strategy. Right? If I don't know somebody, I've got to learn about what they care about, and I've got to figure out our points of common interest, and I've got to bring them into the conversation. And I'm going to do that deliberately, with intention, by going to someone else's office, by asking questions, doing the homework, et cetera. That's where you can start to bring those two together using behavioral science and who you truly are. Merge the two and you get this very fun, authentic way to live that also reaps large benefits by people finding the ways in which they see themselves in you.

[Jenny Luna]

I love that. Because if we think we're going to be strategic and intentional, we often think that we don't get to be authentic and be ourselves. And so that's just such a beautiful way to show that we can do both where it benefits everyone.

[Allison Fregale]

I spend a lot of time right now and in this stage of my career speaking to women specifically. But what I'm about to say does not just apply to women, but it applies to anybody who looks different than the majority of people around them. I always say if you look different and don't take any intentional action, it's possible that what you're communicating unintentionally to your audience is, I am different than you. We don't have anything in common. So if we show up, we look different, and that's all there is, and we just get down to the business at hand. What our audience might conclude is we're not the same. And that is not going to be to our Strategic advantage, because human beings like similarity. Everybody has to do this. Something to be aware of is between any two human beings, there are genuine points of similarity and connection. If you can find them, you can rise above any other perceived difference and show people the true things that you have in common.

[Jenny Luna]

Yeah. So we need to highlight that difference right away and bring that up rather than try to sweep it under the rug or pretend it's not there. Something I've also been thinking a lot about in my new role is first impressions and how important those are. But I'm curious. Let's say we didn't set the right first impression. I didn't maybe get that warmth and assertiveness out in the first meeting. How bound am I to that first impression that I'm making?

[Allison Fregale]

Bound to it. Right. First impressions change. You've changed your mind about people, so they'll change their mind about you. But if you use yourself as a starting point and say, hmm, when I've changed my mind about people, I don't change my mind as easily as I formed my initial impression. So it might not be one more meeting. It might be 2, 3, and 4. I might have to work on it a little bit. That's one thing to keep in mind. Second thing is another negotiation tactic that can be useful. Here is to use an agent. Sometimes we may not be the best messenger if we feel like we got off, perhaps on the wrong foot. Where I wasn't able to show up in the assertive, warm way that I wanted. Maybe my first meeting with somebody was about a disagreement or a conflict. How am I gonna convey that who really respects me that also has the respect of my audience, how can I use that person to help build my status, help change my reputation? If you've ever had an awkward interaction with somebody and you find out every other person you talk to loves them and thinks they're spectacular, and then you think, huh, maybe I should give them a second chance. The more people that are out there saying, right, oh, Jenny's amazing, Allison's amazing, the better off. So that's something you could think about doing very deliberately is to say to somebody who really does respect you and value, say, I'm new here. I don't have a lot of opportunity to interact with this person. Or maybe our first interaction really wasn't that smooth. Can you help me? Can you, when it feels natural, talk about the great work that I'm doing and use them. And so a lot of times, it's just about changing the messenger.

[Jenny Luna]

So at the end of every Episode, we ask each guest three questions, two that we've been asking everybody, and then one that we make up especially for you. Are you ready?

[Allison Fregale]

Yes.

[Jenny Luna]

So I'm curious, what are you excited to study next or what's bubbling up to the surface for you now?

[Allison Fregale]

So what I've been doing a lot on is thinking about this idea of power without status. It's a downer because it is a lot about the bad things that happen to us when we have power without status. So I've still been doing a lot of work in that space to show how important status is in being able to live the life. So I've been doing a lot of work. The incivility and the mistreatment that happens to people. And again, although it's a bit of a downer, one of the things that I'm very focused on is how do we retain women throughout the career life cycle, particularly in what is like a leaky middle where women, after having some success and advancing in organizations, are often leaving at like mid to senior levels. And it has a lot to do. What we see in terms of surveys of women feeling like as they get more power, but if they haven't successfully navigated status, they're encountering more interpersonal mistreatment, worse work environments. And that is prompting them to say, I don't want to do this anymore and I'm exiting. So I'm still doing that work. And what I'm excited about is bringing that over to think about how do we create a better experience for women in the workforce at mid to senior levels that are going to keep them advancing and keep better representation at the most senior levels for women. Bringing those two things together is something that I'm excited about right now.

[Jenny Luna]

Awesome. I'll look forward to reading your next book as you move forward with that research. Who is a communicator you admire and why?

[Allison Fregale]

Maybe because she is top of mind. But Maggie, my advisor, may be well known to this audience, but not worldwide, necessarily famous. She taught me more than anything how to be very clear and assertive about what it is that you want, while also never faltering from the importance of doing right by other people. I think that's why she's able to be very successful. And I feel a lot of times still to this day, 25 years after I met her, when I confront things that I think are difficult communication challenges, I'm always thinking, what would Maggie do here? And there are still times where I call her and I say my first instinct is to do this and Then she would say, let's think about that. Like how would your audience react to that? She's been very good at doing that and also teaching me to get into the head of my audience that curiosity. A lot of that came from her.

[Jenny Luna]

Alison, what are three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe, authenticity, strategy and curiosity. Tell me a bit more about curiosity.

[Allison Fregale]

Communication is going to be a communicator and a receiver. The more curious you are about your audience, the better able you are to communicate in a way that's going to land going to resonate. When I think about people who are really good communicators, or when I think about times when I've done a good versus a bad job, the more curious I am about trying to understand my audience. It informs the other two. Right? Authenticity is obviously your version of you, but it informs the strategy. So we have to get curious about other people.

[Jenny Luna]

Thank you so much. This has been a great conversation, Alison. I've learned a lot and I'm excited to apply some of the things we've talked about to my new job too.

[Allison Fregale]

Amazing pleasure to be here.

[Matt Abrahams]

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. To learn more about status and power, please listen to episode 12 with Deb Gruenfeld. And to learn more about the work of Maggie Neal, please listen to Episode Episode 15. This episode was produced by Jenny Luna, Ryan Campos and me, Matt Ibrahims. Our music is from Floyd Wonder. With special thanks to Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletters. Please consider our premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings and much more at Faster Smarter IO Premium. I wanted to share with you that over the past few months I've had the amazing opportunity of talking to listeners across the globe about the impact the podcast has had on them. I love learning how people are applying the principles and concepts that we cover on the podcast and the impact that it has had on their lives. It is truly inspiring. Speaking on behalf of all of us that bring you the show, we thank you for your support. We look forward to bringing you new episodes, new techniques and deeper knowledge and we ask for your support. It takes time and effort to put this show on the air. Please keep your ideas coming and and if you can, we'd love for you to join our premium. Thank you. And here's to another 200 episodes.