Think Fast, Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

Episode 223 — "Laughing Matters: Levity, Leadership, and Lasting Connection"

Host: Matt Abrahams
Guests: Alison Wood Brooks & Naomi Bagdonas
Date: August 19, 2025

Overview

This episode centers on the role of levity and humor in communication, leadership, and building strong relationships, both at work and in life. Host Matt Abrahams welcomes back Alison Wood Brooks, Harvard professor and author of Talk, and Naomi Bagdonas, executive coach and co-author of Humor, Seriously, for a wide-ranging discussion. The trio dives deep into actionable communication tactics, the science behind conversational habits, and how adopting a mindset of levity can enrich leadership, teamwork, and personal satisfaction.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Power and Practice of Asking Questions

(03:12–06:43)

• Question-asking as a core skill: Alison shares that across her book tour and teaching, people are consistently drawn to the topic of asking questions—both how to do it effectively and why it's essential.
  • “Just ask more. Go into every conversation with this mindset of I can't leave this conversation not having asked any questions.” — Alison (04:42)
• Follow-up questions as treasure-hunting:
  • Naomi likens each response in a conversation to “gold,” suggesting that good follow-ups uncover deeper meaning and connection.
  • “Even a boring sort of mundane question can become great by asking great follow up questions…” — Alison (05:57)
• Practical tip: Start with any question and listen closely; follow-up is where the magic and connection happen.

2. Leadership Principles and Designing for Serendipity

(07:05–09:17)

• Guiding principles for leaders: Naomi discusses having executives define their personal guiding principles to navigate life and leadership decisions. Hers: “Go where there's light and heat.”
  • “If I today set a goal for five years from now, it will not be anywhere near as good as if I navigate my life palms up and I pay attention to where there is light and heat...” — Naomi (07:33)
• Allowing for serendipity: She purposefully allocates 15% of her time and budget for “serendipity,” giving room to seize unexpected opportunities.
  • “I have a 15% serendipity fund. What that means is that 15% of my time and my budget is allocated to pursuing serendipity.” — Naomi (08:24)

3. What Is Levity? Why Does It Matter?

(09:17–13:06)

• Levity defined:

  • “Levity is navigating your life on the precipice of a smile.” — Naomi (09:35)
  • Not just about humor, but about openness to joy, delight, and connection.
  • Creating and receiving levity are both essential—levity is a collaborative act.

• Levity as a core—not a 'bonus'—part of working and relating:

  • Alison emphasizes levity’s influence on group dynamics, status, influence, and engagement.
    • “It’s a core determinant of the status hierarchy in every group...not just this extra thing.” — Alison (11:24)
  • Naomi cites research showing laughter in teams increases creativity, engagement, and satisfaction—even in romantic relationships, reminiscing about laughter boosts satisfaction by 23%.

4. Permission for Nuance, Risk & Fluidity in Conversation and Levity

(13:06–14:41)

• Navigating discomfort: Matt notes that for many, the fluidity and risk-taking required to practice levity or good conversation feels unsafe or hard.
• Courage in communication:
  • Alison explains that real connection in conversation and humor requires “fleeting moments” of courage and risk.
    • “It's these little fleeting moments that require risk taking and a little bit of courage. ...are you going to be courageous enough to take that risk?” — Alison (13:56)

5. Vulnerabilities & “The Liking Gap”

(16:42–18:30)

• Fears around levity and offending others: Matt shares his personal anxiety about post-conversation worries: “Did I offend someone with my humor?”
  • “I worry about... did something I say offend somebody?... I replay it in my head over and over.” — Matt (17:06)
• Misalignment in perception (“The Liking Gap”):
  • Alison notes research shows people like us much more than we think; we ruminate on the wrong things after conversations.
    • “People like you a lot more than you think. ... We're all overly pessimistic about how we think things have gone.” — Alison (17:50)

6. Creating Spaces for Humor & Humanity

(18:32–20:48)

• Leaders as containers, not providers: Naomi stresses that her job is to create a safe space so others feel comfortable bringing their own levity and “goofy,” rather than performing humor for them.
  • “It's not about me being funny. ... Am I creating the right space, the container for other people to fill it?” — Naomi (18:32)
• Physical cues and breaking formality: Naomi shares a story (19:50) about changing the group dynamic at a formal dinner by sitting on the floor—a strong cue that breaks barriers and invites humanity.
  • “When you give space for people to bring their humanity, their sense of humor will follow.” — Naomi (20:48)

7. Meta-Awareness in Leadership and Levity

(20:59–21:50)

• Matt shares a story about a CEO who delivered bad news by stepping off stage—a signal of presence and reducing formality.
• To support levity and presence, leaders must hold dual awareness: being fully in the moment and observing group dynamics to sense what’s needed next.
  • “...it's holding that duality of—I’m in the moment present, but at the same time, I'm observing and feeling what's going on so I can make the difference.” — Matt (21:00)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Levity is navigating your life on the precipice of a smile.”
  — Naomi Bagdonas [09:35]
• “Just ask more. Go into every conversation with this mindset of I can't leave this conversation not having asked any questions.”
  — Alison Wood Brooks [04:42]
• “I have a 15% serendipity fund... my time and my budget is allocated to pursuing serendipity.”
  — Naomi Bagdonas [08:24]
• “It’s a core determinant of the status hierarchy in every group...not just this extra thing.”
  — Alison Wood Brooks [11:24]
• “It's not about me being funny. ... Am I creating the right space, the container for other people to fill it?”
  — Naomi Bagdonas [18:32]
• “People like you a lot more than you think. ... We're all overly pessimistic about how we think things have gone.”
  — Alison Wood Brooks [17:50]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:12 — Alison on what resonates most from her book (Talk): Question-asking and parent-teen communication
• 04:42 — Top advice on asking better questions
• 05:22 — Naomi on follow-up questions as “magic”
• 07:05 — Naomi: Guiding principles for leaders and the “serendipity fund”
• 09:31 — Defining levity and teaching it to students
• 11:24 — Why levity is central, not optional, in conversations and leadership
• 12:14 — Research on laughter, team success, and relationship satisfaction
• 13:56 — Alison: Why risk and courage are needed for great conversation and humor
• 17:06 — Matt on the anxiety of humor and not knowing how it “lands”
• 17:50 — The “liking gap” and why people like us more than we think
• 19:50 — Naomi on visual cues and breaking formality to foster humanity and levity
• 21:00 — Matt’s story of the CEO who shifted dynamics by stepping offstage

Final Thoughts

This episode intricately weaves actionable communication techniques with deeper reflections on humanity and connection. Levity, far from being a frivolous or optional extra, emerges as a vital tool in our arsenal to foster creativity, collaboration, trust, and satisfaction. The guests encourage listeners—and leaders in particular—to be intentional, risk-taking, and human, emphasizing that laughter and warmth are not just nice-to-haves, but central to real, effective communication.

For deeper dives into these themes, the host recommends checking out earlier episodes with Naomi and Alison, as well as their respective books.