A (3:42)

You've said several things I want to dive into there. So I like this notion of being LEAP ready. We've done a few other episodes where people have said you want to hone your skills, be connected and build a social network so that when you are ready to move, that you have everything, your bags are packed, you've got the connections that can help. So I like the idea of leap Ready as a way of defining that. I'd like to pull on two different threads. First, I'd love for you to share what are the signs and signals that can help us become more awake in your terms, in other words, to say, hey, this is time to move on. And then I want to come back after that and talk a little bit more about personal branding because I believe the brand you build in advance of a LEAP can be really helpful. So let's start with the signals and signs. What should we be looking for when it's time for us to consider a pivot or a leap?

B (4:28)

It's a great question because I think sometimes, like you said, timing is everything and you don't. It doesn't mean that when you're leap ready, it doesn't mean that I need to pack my bags and go. But I still remember a time when one of my big bosses came to me and said, what do you want to do next? Even within the organization, Right? And I had no clue. Now that was a beautiful opportunity. We were just acquired. I could probably have maneuvered anywhere if I only knew, right? So for me, a big part is I want to get people into a habit of not necessarily looking for a leap, but always being intentional, strategic with their career and thinking what's next? Where am I trying to go? And I do believe that in this space of change, people will change careers even within again, responsibilities, titles, whatever it is. Right? Even within the same organization. But they will change it every year too. So we will see a pace of change that we've never seen anything like it. So knowing what's next is the first thing now unrelated, I think yes, there are definitely signs that either you're more tired, you're more burned out, you're not as happy as you could be. For me, a lot of it was waking up at three in the morning and saying there should be more to me, what am I doing? Why am I pilling small. But it was good enough, right? So I think a lot of times listen to the signs of is there more? And the other thing that I'll say is life is in phases and in different phases, different things will be important for you. So the very first thing is to be okay with the fact that you're in a different phase. And it could be that you care more about money, it could be that you care more about growth and opportunity and possibilities and fame, or you care about impact or balance. And you're not going to have it all. I don't believe in the myth you're going to have it all, just not at the same time. So you're going to pick a couple that are critical for you, knowing that the rest will be a little bit compartment. Right. Like they're going to take a bath, backseat. And as long as you're intentional about what's really critical for me at that moment, now it's easier to make those leaps. But at the pace of change, we shouldn't be looking at a career direction because most of us are not going to be deciding on something for the next 20 years. We are deciding on something in a relatively short term. So if we going to look at it as a career experiment, it's actually freeing up a lot of the anxiety of deciding something very big.

A (6:46)

I really like the idea of framing it as an experiment. And the Horizon is not 20, 30 year career, it's shorter. I do like this idea of constantly scanning and being aware of what's going on in your industry or in the areas that you're interested in so that again, you can make a more intelligent choice. And then finally, I think so important is listen to how you're feeling, right? And if you are waking up in the middle of the night or you're not feeling that level of fulfillment that you'd like to feel, those are good signs and signals. Before we get to the branding question, what if somebody feels like they've missed their chance or they're too far along in their careers to start over? What would you say to them? So we've talked about what can initiate a change, but some of us have been around a long time doing what we do.

B (7:30)

Have we missed the boat in this era of change? We will see, I believe, a lot more what we call portfolio careers. And I do believe that Leap Academy is probably the only one that really teaches that. And I do believe that people will start even if they have one stable job, which I do believe is actually really handy, but they gonna start, I don't know, advising and sitting on boards and doing some public speaking and maybe open this business and maybe investing a little bit. Like they gonna start having these multiple income streams so that there's always a safety net and it's just a lot more interesting. Like life just gets more exciting. So I think there's a little bit of a combination.

A (8:09)

Matt, can you briefly describe what a portfolio career is and how we can go about building one?

B (8:17)

So portfolio career is essentially just multiple streams of income. And I think in today's world, there's just a lot of options to create income these days. And again, sometimes it's more about the income, but sometimes it's more about exposure to new things or volunteering or sitting on specific boards that you care about or like it. It's not necessarily income. It's like ventures, if you will. And what's really interesting in today's world, and we're going to tie it to personal branding, because sometimes it is more about the personal branding than the actual money that comes it. But if you get involved with certain things, it can actually create a really beautiful snowball on your personal brand. Opportunities that come your way, how you're perceived, et cetera. This is probably one of the more powerful things that somebody can do is you have a classic portfolio mat, right? Like you're lecturing, you have a book, you have a podcast. Like you have all these things that you're involved with. But the beautiful thing is they're all under the same umbrella of making you an even stronger communicator, more of a thought leader in Your field more invited to things, right? So now it creates this beautiful synergy. So if you can create this umbrella brand and tie these things together and create a snowball, it's probably one of the strongest thing that you can do to your personal brand and to the opportunities and what kind of things will open your way.

A (9:36)

I think one of the things that has helped me, and I heard you mention it, is that having some clear through line or some guiding principle, I mean, everything I do is predicated on trying to help people hone and develop their communication skills. And the way I deploy, that varies. Sometimes it's in the classroom, sometimes it's through a podcast, sometimes through writing. But all of it is really striving for the same thing. And for me, you know, income is important, need to pay the bills, but for me, it's just the ability to impact and influence as well. And my newly named portfolio career, I hadn't thought of it that way, is really designed to help influence and impact people. And thank you for helping us understand that. And this idea that we can all build a portfolio career is really important. So I want to bring this back to communication because we've flirted with branding a little bit. When I switched careers, when I made a leap from high tech to teaching high school, it was a big leap for me. And many people were like, why are you doing that? That seems strange. Or what's behind it? What advice do you have to help people communicate their pivots, their leaps, so that it tells a coherent story that helps others understand? And I'm going to extend the question not just to the actual leap, but as you build out your portfolio career, you have to be able to articulate that as well. How do you think about communication and branding around those choices and are there best practices we can follow?

B (10:58)

That's such a great question. And I think it will have a few components, Matt, because I think the very first one is internally, because you want to convince yourself first, right? Because when you're in peace with what you're trying to do, it's a lot easier to convince others. I think usually the hard parts come when you're still trying to figure this out. And then there's people that are trying to help you and trying to prevent you from doing the mistakes, and it has a tendency to keep you stuck. But find your peace in what is the right pattern for you. What do you want to be known for? Again, the more you think about it as an experiment, it's not as big of a decision to make. So it's not as scary. And then it's really about communicating it from the vision. But also the pattern of why you, why this, why now? Which we talked about structures, right? Why is this the right thing for me right now? And why me, why this right now? And the more you can structure it in a very concise way, it basically lets people understand, okay, she got this. And this is what we were trying to get. Because again, it's very rare that you will get a very solid advice or somebody will say no to you if they've been where you're trying to go. Usually you're going to get it from the people who are trying to keep you safe. So for those people, we're not trying to get their advice. We're trying to show our peace in the idea and our vision and to explain to them that we're making decisions based on hope and dreams, not necessarily fear and doubt. And as long as you can make those decisions, everything changes.

A (12:38)

Lots of really insightful tidbits there. So the first and foremost, you need to get clear with yourself. You have to understand why this, why now, what's motivating me. So it's hard to communicate something that you haven't clearly articulated to yourself. Yourself. And this notion of reminding yourself that the people you're communicating to care for you and they really want to keep you safe. And so helping them understand that the pivot, the change, the leap that you're making is part of your. Your hopes and your dreams, I think is a wonderful way to initiate the communication. And of course, your music to my ears, when you talk about a way to structure it. And I like this. Why this? Why me? Why now? That's a beautiful way to package up up your story of the pivot, the change, the leap, but also to help you position your brand. So thank you for sharing so many insightful bits of information in such a concise way. I've listened and learned a lot from you, and one of the things you talk about that really hit home for me is this notion of clarity in reinvention. What's your approach to helping someone figure out what they really want to do next? We've talked about how to figure out when the time is ready for that next thing. But how do you really find that clarity about how you want to reinvent yourself? Do you have some specific advice?

B (13:54)

First of all, I will just say, Matt, that not having my clarity was probably one of the hardest times in my life. And it sounds like, weird, because you've already been successful. How. Why would that take you down. And I have to say that for high achievers and driven people that kind of always knew what's next, this was a very alarming time for me. And I was actually in that soapbox for a while. And I think that was a big calling for Leap Academy and to try to help more people to figure out what's next in a lot faster, in a lot more engineered way. But in the general sense, what I would say is success leaves clues. And if you're willing to look at the different clues in your life, and that can be all the way from childhood in adulthood, it's many times not necessarily the skills, the learnable skills in school, but it's more the patterns. You talk about patterns, right? It's more the patterns is the transitions. When did you get awards? What are the people intrigued by you? Where did you feel so happy and energized and excited? And so we look at these clues and start creating again experiments. And when you look at these things as little experiments, they're not heavy on a decision because you don't need to make a big decision, you need to make, make. We call it the five days, five weeks, five months. You just need to decide if this. Worst five days of my life to think about it, right? That's all you need to decide. And then is this worth five weeks of experiment? A little bit and et cetera. So it's a lot easier to make those decisions. Really listen to what other people are telling you. In many cases, these are the best clues that you have. They wrote a review about you, they sent you a thank you text. Sometimes ask them like, what. What's the most intriguing piece for you to work with me? And you'll hear things that you didn't even think of. And I think there's a lot of clues there as well. And so for me, a lot of the ideas came from mentoring in some of the biggest startup accelerators in the world, like Google and Singularity University and Carnegie Lamellon, et cetera. And what's interesting, when you look at startups, they need to do the same thing. There's a plateau of opportunities and it's endless. Which direction should I go after? And it's really more about these very engineered, structured experiments that will give that clarity. But I will also say, Matt, which is really important, the clarity comes from action, not just thinking about it. And I think we try to engineer the way or decide ahead of moving forward. And that's actually really scary. And it creates almost like a prison. And we can't move forward. So the clarity actually comes from the momentum. And I think the big thing in Leap Academy is we give people momentum and suddenly the clarity kicks in because sometimes you don't even know. Like I'm sure you didn' you're going to have a podcast and a book and a thing and a TEDx that has millions of people. Like you don't have all the recipe, but with the clarity, things click in.

A (16:50)

I really like the idea that a way to learn about reinvention and what you should be focusing on is through the feedback the world gives you. So your peers, your accolades. We can become very internal focused when we're thinking about reinventing ourselves and letting the external world what people are saying about us, how they're honoring our work be a guide is really important. And this notion that clarity comes from action comes from the experiments. And the experiments don't have to be super long, they can be very short. I totally hear you when you say we actually can prevent ourselves from taking action because of all of our thinking. And really you have to do to get some clear ideas. Thank you for that. Hi Matt here. I am super excited to announce our next live event. Join the thinkfast Talk Smart community for a new live recording. The event is on September 16th at 8am Pacific. I'll deliver a short talk called Listen up followed by a live Q and A from our global audience. A few premium members will have the opportunity to ask me their questions on video in real time, and all registered participants could submit questions online during the live event. Don't miss this opportunity to be part of this amazing live Ask Matt anything on September 16th at 8am Pacific. Be sure to sign up on LinkedIn, YouTube or FasterSmarter IO live. We'll be back in just a moment, but first let's take a quick break for a message from our sponsors. Their support helps us bring you our show Think Fast. Talk Smart is brought to you by BetterHelp Help. We've all done it before, turning to our barista, hairdresser or random stranger in the bathroom for life advice as easy as they are to talk with about everyday topics. When you're looking for real help about relationships, anxiety, depression or other clinical issues, you need a real professional. Instead of turning to someone randomly, seek guidance from a credentialed therapist online with BetterHelp. I believe everyone should have a coach, therapist or guide who can help when the going gets tough. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, Having served over 5 million people globally, BetterHelp can provide access to mental Health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one for you with BetterHelp. Our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com thinkfast that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P.com thinkfast hi Matt here. If you listen to Think Fast, Talk Smart, I know you're looking for ways to improve how you approach your career, your relationships, or your life overall. Another podcast that can help you do just that is how to Be a Better Human, the award winning podcast from ted. You'll hear fascinating insights, heartwarming stories and hilarious hot takes from host Chris Stuffy's conversations with TED speakers. Learn how your brain predicts reality, how to make the most of your finite life, how to throw great parties, and more. I highly recommend you check out how to Be a Better Human wherever you get your podcasts. So Ilana, this has been fantastic. Before we end, I like to ask three questions. One I create just for you and then the other two I ask to everybody. Are you ready for that?

B (20:11)

Of course.

A (20:12)

So, as the expert of pivoting, leaping, changing careers, I'm curious, what do you see next for you? Do you have some ideas about what the next leap will be?

B (20:21)

I do, just because my book is in the making and it's at the final stages. So there's a leave the art of leaping book that is like we're in the book proposal phase. So it is coming. I truly believe that in today's world, we're in front of a cliff of millions of people that will need to reinvent themselves. And I think there are a lot of reskill schools but not a lot of companies that teach reinvention and creating portfolio career. And we just need to grow fast enough to be able to help the millions of people that will need us.

A (20:52)

I love that idea of helping people reinvent rather than just reskill. And congratulations. Writing a book is a big deal and it can be a lot of fun and it's certainly a lot of work. Question number two, who is a communicator that you admire and why?

B (21:06)

I do love Simon Sinek and how he communicates in the sense that he's very soft, articulate and I think I have a lot to learn from that too.

A (21:17)

I agree that Simon Sinek is a very effective communicator and I like that you are appreciating the things he brings but also noting the things that the ways in which you're different and we all have to find our own style. All right, final question. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe.

B (21:35)

I will say peace of mind, knowing what you want to say, basically, and being okay with saying it. Knowing your audience, very critical. I mean, kind of I'm repeating you because structuring the way you're saying it. Like I feel embarrassed because I was like, why can I say different? But these are like totally agree. So I think I'm repeating what you're saying.

A (21:56)

There are some truisms and I think structure, knowing your audience, et cetera. The piece you added that I think is really important for everyone to consider is there's confidence in how you deliver information, but there's also confidence in what you are delivering. And you highlighted that in one of your ingredients, saying you have to be comfortable with what you're saying. And that's important. That's important to feel confident in what you're saying. Now, that's not to say that you can't change it and make adjustments, but I appreciate you adding that little nuance to what we say. We have to be confident in it. Well, Alana, you shared so many valuable tips. You helped us to realize that the leaps that we make are experiments, that clarity comes through the actions and experiments that we run and ultimately that we all need to be helping ourselves by being leap ready and being ready to communicate what it is we do or are planning to do to those around us. Thank you so much for your time.

B (22:50)

Thank you, Matt. This was so fun and you're such a great interviewer. Thank you so much.

A (22:57)

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast to learn more about careers and pivoting. Please listen to episode 187 with Dorie Clark and episode 147 with Whitney Johnson. This episode was produced by Kathryn Reed, Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder, with thanks to Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletters. Please consider our Premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings and much more at fastersmarter IO Premium. I wanted to share with you that over the past few months I've had the amazing opportunity of talking to listeners across the globe about the impact the podcast has had on them. I love learning how people are applying the principles and concepts that we cover on the podcast and the impact that it has had on their lives. It is truly inspiring. Speaking on behalf of all of us that bring you the show, we thank you for your support. We look forward to bringing you new episodes, new techniques, and deeper knowledge. And we ask for your support. It takes time and effort to put this show on the air. Please keep your ideas coming, and if you can, we'd love for you to join our premium. Thank you. And here's to another 200 episodes.