A (2:28)

So thank you for that.

B (2:29)

I know that storytelling is something that's very important to effective communication in general, but it's important to you as well. You've explored the importance of visuals in storytelling and supporting narratives. What are a few of your top insights or best practices when using visuals in storytelling.

C (2:48)

Yeah, we've been at this for over 15 years here at PRE and certainly have a few insights and best practices. Let me start with this idea of retention. It's probably the case that if you're putting in the effort to tell someone a story, that you're hoping they remember your key points. And the insight that I would offer is that people remember and retain information very well when presented spatially. And this idea dates back to like 500 BC, and it's often referred to as a memory palace, or more scientifically, the method of loci. And the way it works is imagine that you're trying to memorize, let's say, the US Presidents in order. It's a classic test, you know, for middle school students in America. You visualize walking into a house, let's say, and in the entryway is George Washington, the first US President, greeting you. And then maybe down the hall sitting on a chair is John Adams, the second US President. And then beyond that hall, as you walk into the living room, is Thomas Jefferson, the third U.S. president. And you could draw this out. And then, you know, during your recall, you visually just go through that house that you built. And without getting into too many specifics of how Prezi works, this is one of the foundations of what we have learned, is a good visual presentation. It lays out information along some story arc that often creates a vision in people's minds, and it dramatically increases retention.

B (4:12)

I think that is such a powerful memory tool. I use it all the time for my talks. Human beings are designed to be good at knowing location. It's evolutionarily advantageous for us. And anytime you can tap into that geolocation ability we have, it can really help. And Prezi does lay things out in a visual sense in a way that helps. When I give big talks, I will always place the introduction in the entryway to my house. And then the first point is in the first bedroom. And because I know that space, I just see myself walking through the space to make sure I remember the content I want to deliver. And while it helps me to remember, the visual elements of your tool really can help people remember as well. So for anybody listening, thinking about visual elements to help you remember, but also to make it easier for your audience to remember, can be really important.

A (5:05)

Are there other best practices that you.

B (5:07)

Guys have identified over the years?

C (5:09)

Yeah, I can certainly share at least one more here, and I think another one around. Again, if you're telling a story, you're trying to help people understand, probably Your point, not just retain it. And what we've done a lot over the years is worked on actually some pretty polar opposite use cases, sometimes helping people sell, let's say very complex products, sometimes sell commodity products like insurance. But if we focus on a complex example, the insight that I would offer is that the use of visuals in particular, something, say, metaphorical, can really help reduce complexity.

D (5:44)

Right.

C (5:44)

And increase understanding. So what we see in many good presentations are images, like, let's say an iceberg where you focus on the thing above the water, but there's danger lurking below.

D (5:55)

Right.

C (5:55)

The roots of a tree, which, while not dangerous, the unseen part under the tree is really important to how the organism functions. And these are all kind of storytelling techniques that can help. Let's say it's a complex example, even consulting engagement, and you have a skeptical client, it can help them maybe understand and appreciate that there's a lot more to this project or to the idea than they were thinking. And that, you know, you could be very helpful.

B (6:23)

It is really important when dealing with complexity, not to dumb things down and oversimplify, but to make them accessible. And using a comparison, a metaphor that's visual in particular, can be really helpful so that we not only see it, but we understand it. And this notion of accessibility, when paired with the value of visuals for memory, really can make you stand out and make the content more engaging. So I appreciate that. Now, not every point made needs to have a visual. When should someone use visuals and when should they refrain from using them?

C (6:58)

Yeah, it might be surprising to hear, but I personally don't use a lot of visuals in my presentations, and certainly no stock or clipart just to fill space.

D (7:07)

Right.

C (7:08)

What drives my style and a lot of what we try to do with our customers here at Prezi is based on the understanding that the same part of the brain is generally used for. For visual and audio tasks. So we aren't actually good at reading and listening at the same time. So if you want to talk, put a visual instead. Maybe that just shows the simple relationship between the points. If you're doing like a cause effect or a goal challenge. Next step list. And so I would use that a lot to guide, you know, when do you use a visual and when do you. Maybe not. Is basically which part of the person's brain are you trying to engage? And I think this is even without a physical presentation, you can think about this, right? And how to engage. You know, get someone painting a picture in their mind while you're telling a story. You could say, imagine you are in a cockpit of an airplane ready for takeoff, you've already got the person then in that space. So if I could give a rule of thumb, I would focus visuals for the main story arc for key relationships between important information, or to simplify complex topics. But then don't clutter the rest of your content that you're sharing.

B (8:14)

So just reinforcing that the visuals aren't needed for everything. Sometimes people carry around this notion that I have to have a visual for every point I make, and certainly that's not the case. And I really like your idea of using visuals for what they're really good at, which is helping people to understand, helping them to engage and thinking about the impact that the visuals have. You know, human beings are wired for visual and let's not overwhelm people with too much information. I think that's really valuable. And I challenge everybody to remember that slides and visuals are for your audience, they're not for you. And so thinking about when to use them can be really helpful. And I appreciate you sharing that. You don't overload your communication that way with too many visuals. I am the same way. So I appreciate that. You know, one element, Jim of Prezi that I really like is its non linear nature. You can move all around the content easily. It doesn't always have to go beginning, middle, end. What advantage, advantages and disadvantages does removing the typical linear constraint of communication provide when trying to get information across?

C (9:20)

Yeah, we like to call our format kind of an open canvas. Even our technology is more of a video game camera moving through 3D space than say traditional slides. To your question, like the advantages of being able to go nonlinear. Let's say there are a lot I would focus probably on two. The first is you can really personalize the flow and the information shared. Let's say this is a presentation you're going to use with 20 different people. Rather than having to change a presentation every time, if you don't have the time or the information on who these people are always to do that, you can kind of personalize your way through the presentation. And even better actually though is interactivity with the audience. A lot of what we do when we try to go non linear is you create curiosity moments on the screen. Someone will say, well, what's that? Or can I see that? And now all of a sudden you're interacting with your audience, with the person you're presenting to and it becomes very conversational, which is, you know, all of a sudden they're not thinking I went to a presentation or I got pitched. It's more like, oh, I had this really interesting conversation with Matt. So those would be some of the advantages.

B (10:23)

It's really cool that going nonlinear can actually build curiosity, and it allows you to tailor the material to the needs and interests of the audience, which we certainly know really draws them in, and it makes the presentation move from just broadcast to conversation. So I think everyone should take a step back and think about the flow of your communication. Clearly, you need to have a structure and a logic behind it, but the ability to move from place to place to really engage where the audience is most interested, that curiosity breeds conversation. And I like your metaphor of saying it's a canvas. I think many of us think of slides and other visual tools is really a template. And a template and a canvas, to me, are very different. And getting people to think about how they can communicate visually using that canvas metaphor, I think really helps. And it goes back to what you mentioned earlier. If you can get people to see it, not just actually see it, but see it in their mind's eye, they're going to retain it even longer. Now, I have to ask you this, because AI is ubiquitous and it certainly has impact in communication and visual communication. And I know you're integrating AI into the tool that you have. What role does AI play in storytelling and helping people communicate better?

C (11:44)

Well, I've seen over the years of storytelling and visual design can be quite intimidating, but somewhere along the way, we forget how to be creative sometimes or how to tell a story.

D (11:54)

Right.

C (11:54)

And so I think, first up, I think AI is helping make storytelling and visual design way more accessible.

D (12:00)

Right.

C (12:00)

To many more people we like to call, like our AI First User experience, for instance, at Prezi, a designer by your side. So we don't think of it as necessarily getting rid of you as the storyteller or even necessarily building the entire narrative for you, but we're there to help, to get past that intimidation factor. And, you know, so now you can have a tool that really guides you in crafting your narrative is a great thing. AI can help with selecting visual imagery, which is something even I struggle with. Everyone struggles with, right? And then populating the content in ways you just didn't think you could do or didn't have the time to years ago. So I think it's revolutionary on that accessibility front.

B (12:38)

Yeah, I certainly agree, and this is true for me. Finding visuals is really intimidating and stressful. Can you find the right visual? Does it capture what you need? And having a guide or help on the side, I think is really useful. And I encourage my students and others to use AI to help you brainstorm, to help you consider different options. Clearly, your role as the communicator and the person who will actually be delivering and connecting with the audience is really important. And so as a guide, I think is a great way to look at it. And we do get intimidated and we do lock in too quickly. So having options and having somebody help us can really make a difference.

A (13:17)

Now we're going to take a quick break. Thanks for supporting the partners who help us share smart communication with the world.

B (13:24)

Here's a quick message.

A (13:27)

The hardest part of presenting isn't knowing what to say. It's keeping people with you so they leave convinced. That's why I've been a longtime Prezi user and love it. It's my favorite tool for giving memorable talks and it can help you do the same. Prezi is a presentation tool that makes your ideas easy to follow and hard to forget, not just slide after slide. With Prezi AI, you can turn any idea into a presentation that's clear, engaging and ready to share with no design skills needed. So you can focus on delivering it with confidence. Try it now with 25% off, exclusively@prezi.com thinkfast that's prezi.com thinkfast or check the link in the show notes while the offer lasts.

B (14:15)

So, Jim, before we end, I'd like to ask you two questions and I'm asking these questions of everyone who's part of this miniseries. Are you up for that? That sure.

C (14:22)

Let's do it.

B (14:23)

All right. So I'd be very curious to know who is a communicator that you admire and why.

C (14:28)

I really admire and get inspired by the work of Chip and Dan Heath, with Chip being a professor at Stanford. For folks that aren't familiar and they've written many good books and I would recommend all of them. But in particular on this topic, the ideas they presented in this book called Made to Stick really, you know, were inspiring for me and served me well a lot over the years. So I think their work, it offers a super simple framework for sharing ideas in a way that sticks.

D (14:55)

Right.

C (14:55)

And thus the name of the book and with a real focus on like trying to help lead people to action. They try to really help people communicate for action, for leadership.

B (15:04)

So Made to Stick is one of my go to books that I recommend to everybody for communication. It wasn't written as a communication book, but it is a great book and I happen to know both Dan and Chip and we've interviewed both of them for the podcast. And you're right, they're very good at articulating, very clear direction, practical, tactical tips. And they do a good job, I think, of giving examples so you can really understand through examples, they show you what they're talking about. And I can see how that aligns a lot with the work you do, which is very much into showing. So thank you for sharing. The Heath brothers, they do a great job. So, beyond your tool, I'm curious if you have one particular communication hack or tool or shortcut that you use to help you be more effective in your communication.

C (15:48)

What I would share is, you know, I've learned over the years to get people to buy in and understand they really need to be able to relate to you and your ideas. And so it's really important to help people relate to you and your idea while you're communicating, which is where sometimes slack and things like that can go astray if you just get right to the point.

D (16:07)

Right.

C (16:07)

So I think that I would encourage, you know, the hack would be communicate your experience, communicate your feelings, even your emotions. And likely your audience will have then or has had similar experiences, and then they can kind of place that idea in that context and understanding so much more. So, you know, essentially the idea you're communicating starts becoming theirs, but the way you get it is not by bludgeoning them with the idea, it's by actually relating it to you. So then they, as humans, can relate to what you're trying to talk about.

B (16:39)

So both tailoring your message to connect to your audience and then give the information. And you're right, that does take a little bit of time, but I think it is time very well spent. And it is through that connection, through that warmth, through that tailoring that you really can make your message land. And I like the example you gave of show it, you know, tell your experience, share your emotions, and that's how you make that connection happen. Jim, this has been really insightful and useful. It is all about showing and connecting. And your work does that. Your tool helps. It makes things accessible, it makes things memorable. And those are things that all of us can leverage to be better, more effective communicators.

A (17:23)

Thank you for your time.

C (17:24)

Yeah, thanks for having me. Been fun.

A (17:28)

Thank you for joining us for one of our communication tools, episodes of thanks, Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Please be sure to listen to all of the episodes in this miniseries. We appreciate Prezi's sponsorship of these episodes. This episode was produced by Kathryn Reed, Ryan Campos, and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder with special thanks to Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider our Premium offering for extended Deep Thinks episodes, Ask Matt Anythings and much more at fastersmarter IO Premium.