Episode Summary:
Podcast: Think Fast, Talk Smart: Communication Techniques
Host: Matt Abrahams
Episode: 259. Quick Thinks: Task-Focused to People-Focused—A Smarter Way to Communicate
Guest: Megan Reitz, Associate Fellow at Oxford Saïd Business School
Release Date: January 29, 2026
Episode Overview
In this “Quick Thinks” episode, host Matt Abrahams delves deeper into the critical importance of moving from a purely task-focused (“doing mode”) approach to a more people- and relationship-focused (“spacious mode”) way of communicating. Building on a previous conversation with psychologist and leadership expert Megan Reitz, the discussion explores the new research around “spaciousness” in organizations, why it matters for creativity and psychological safety, and practical steps for building agility between modes of interaction. The conversation provides actionable strategies for fostering environments where team members can freely express ideas, engage in productive dissent, and enhance both personal and organizational performance.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Doing Mode vs. Spacious Mode (02:24)
Megan Reitz introduces her recent research on the concept of “spaciousness” in organizational life:
-
Doing Mode:
- Focused on achieving specific goals or targets
- Instrumental, short-term, narrow, and control-focused
- “We often see others and the world around us as separate to us and things that can be manipulated in order to achieve a goal.” (Megan Reitz, 03:11)
- Critically necessary for survival and operational efficiency
-
Spacious Mode:
- Expansive, unhurried, present-focused attention
- Emphasizes relationships, interdependence, creativity, and emergence
- “It tends to be the area where we gain insight. We tend to see relationships and interdependence and flow and change and emergence when we're in the spacious mode.” (Megan Reitz, 04:07)
- Promotes learning, reflection, and meaningful connections
-
Key Issue:
- Most organizations and individuals have become “pathologically busy,” allowing the doing mode to dominate and suffocating opportunities for connection, creativity, and reflection.
- “The task bit of that seems to have slightly suffocated some of the other aspects.” (Megan Reitz, 05:09)
Timestamps:
- Doing vs. Spacious Mode explained: 02:24–06:14
2. Building Agility Between Modes (06:14)
Matt Abrahams highlights the importance of being “agile and fluid” in moving between doing and spacious modes:
- Recognizes that the most meaningful conversations happen in spacious mode
- Notes the need for adaptive communication, tailored to context and relationship
Megan Reitz's Strategies:
- Give Language to Spaciousness:
- Naming the mode helps people notice and value it
- “Just being able to give a language to the spacious mode… is actually one of the key objectives of our research.” (Megan Reitz, 07:13)
- Psychological Safety:
- Fear and anxiety narrow our perspective; safety enables openness and creativity
- Team leaders should foster environments where it is safe to “take our breath, pause a second and look around and then make wise choices rather than just busy, sometimes foolish choices.” (Megan Reitz, 09:24)
- Influence of People:
- Awareness of who we spend time with—diversity of perspectives prevents “silos”
- Consider inviting external voices or rotating group roles to break habits
- Role of Conflict and Dissonance:
- Constructive disagreement and surprise can “wake us up from the doing mode” (Megan Reitz, 09:47)
- Assigning roles like “devil’s advocate” can stimulate broader thinking (Matt Abrahams, 11:41)
- Practical Tip:
- “It's kind of a dig in the ribs to say, wake up, stop being a busy fool, look up and look around, reconnect with what you're actually trying to do, your bigger and wider intention.” (Megan Reitz, 09:54)
Timestamps:
- Agility between modes: 06:14–11:24
3. Cultivating Psychological Safety (13:37)
Key Clarification:
- Misunderstanding Psychological Safety:
- Not just being “nice” or agreeable or comfortable
- True psychological safety is “our capacity to have the really difficult conversations that we have to have if we are to flourish. So it can be far from comfortable.” (Megan Reitz, 13:54)
What Goes Wrong:
- Organizations often focus on “fixing the silent” instead of examining broader systemic issues
- “How you show up affects the voices of the people around you.” (Megan Reitz, 15:09)
- Our presence and way of engaging directly shape whether others feel able to speak up
Noteworthy Insights:
-
Superiority Illusion:
- “We all think that we listen quite well. It's just everybody else that needs to get better.” (Megan Reitz, 16:04)
- We measure ourselves by intent, others by behavior—leading to a bias in self-assessment
-
Listening Deeply:
- Genuine listening is rare but profoundly impactful
- Require active efforts like paraphrasing, acknowledging emotion, and full presence
-
The Response to Speaking Up:
- “When we speak up... we might do it a bit clumsily… Rather than the listener understanding the courage... they often respond in a way that just completely closes that person down.” (Megan Reitz, 17:14)
- Need to expect and learn from “intelligent failures”—mistakes while trying to be open
Timestamps:
- Psychological safety in depth: 13:37–18:14
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Doing vs. Spacious Mode:
- “In the doing mode, we are focused on the achievement of a goal or target. So it's instrumental, tends to be quite short term, it's quite a narrow attention… We are interested in control and also in predictability.”
—Megan Reitz (03:03) - “When we are in a spacious mode, our attention is expansive, it's unhurried... the area where we gain insight... when we're in the spacious mode.”
—Megan Reitz (04:04)
- “In the doing mode, we are focused on the achievement of a goal or target. So it's instrumental, tends to be quite short term, it's quite a narrow attention… We are interested in control and also in predictability.”
-
On Breaking Habits:
- “It's kind of a dig in the ribs to say, wake up, stop being a busy fool, look up and look around, reconnect with what you're actually trying to do, your bigger and wider intention.”
—Megan Reitz (09:54)
- “It's kind of a dig in the ribs to say, wake up, stop being a busy fool, look up and look around, reconnect with what you're actually trying to do, your bigger and wider intention.”
-
On Psychological Safety:
- “Psychological safety is our capacity to have the really difficult conversations that we have to have if we are to flourish. So it can be far from comfortable.”
—Megan Reitz (13:54) - “How you show up affects the voices of the people around you.”
—Megan Reitz (15:09)
- “Psychological safety is our capacity to have the really difficult conversations that we have to have if we are to flourish. So it can be far from comfortable.”
-
On Listening:
- “We all think that we listen quite well. It's just everybody else that needs to get better... there's a gap, to say the least.”
—Megan Reitz (16:04)
- “We all think that we listen quite well. It's just everybody else that needs to get better... there's a gap, to say the least.”
-
On Responses to Speaking Up:
- “When we speak up, and particularly if it's challenging or it goes against the grain, we might do it a bit clumsily... Rather than the listener understanding the courage... they often respond in a way that just completely closes that person down...”
—Megan Reitz (17:14)
- “When we speak up, and particularly if it's challenging or it goes against the grain, we might do it a bit clumsily... Rather than the listener understanding the courage... they often respond in a way that just completely closes that person down...”
Practical Takeaways
- Develop a shared vocabulary for modes of attention (“doing” and “spacious”).
- Build psychological safety by encouraging difficult conversations, not just comfort.
- Assess your listening habits honestly; beware the “superiority illusion.”
- Deliberately assign roles (e.g., devil’s advocate) to inject fresh perspectives into meetings.
- Respond appreciatively when others speak up, especially if their message is awkward—support repeated, improved efforts at openness.
- Learn from “intelligent failures” in communication—mistakes are natural and vital for growth.
Key Segment Timestamps
| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------|--------------| | Doing Mode vs. Spacious Mode | 02:24–06:14 | | Moving Fluidly Between Modes | 06:14–11:24 | | Building Psychological Safety | 13:37–18:14 |
Tone and Communication Style Notes
The episode maintains an encouraging, action-oriented tone. Megan Reitz’s insights are both grounded in research and delivered with empathy and wit, while Matt Abrahams provides framing, real-world reflections, and practical translation of concepts.
Additional Resources
- For more on psychological safety:
Episode 132 with Amy Edmondson - For lessons on leadership:
Episode 148 with Irv Grouspeck
Summary crafted for those seeking a clear, actionable roadmap to smarter, more mindful workplace communication—informed by the latest research and delivered in the friendly, insightful voice characteristic of Think Fast, Talk Smart.