302. Master This: How to Learn Like the Experts Do

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Think Fast Talk Smart – Episode 302

Episode Title: Master This: How to Learn Like the Experts Do
Host: Matt Abrahams
Guest: David Rogier, Founder & CEO of MasterClass
Release Date: July 2, 2026

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Overview

In this episode, Matt Abrahams speaks with David Rogier, the founder and CEO of MasterClass, about the secrets behind world-class learning and communication. The conversation delves into how to pitch to high-profile talent, the importance of production value, the role of tenacity in personal and professional growth, and Rogier’s personal journey with a stutter. Listeners learn actionable strategies for mastering new skills, building trust, managing diverse teams, and the significance of continuously improving, no matter how experienced one may be.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Motivation Behind MasterClass

• Education as Irreplaceable ([02:26])
  • David shares how his grandmother, a Holocaust survivor, instilled in him the belief that "education is the only thing that someone can't take away from somebody else."
  • This belief ignited both his commitment to lifelong learning and his mission to democratize expert knowledge through MasterClass.

Pitching to High-Profile Talent

• Understanding Gatekeepers ([03:09])

  • David breaks down the process of reaching celebrities, explaining that “every celebrity has four to five people whose job it is... to not let you do that.”
  • Success lies in identifying the real influencer among the entourage, then reducing reputational risk and building genuine trust.

• Building Trust and Effective Pitches ([03:09])

  • David quickly realized: “People don’t care about your credentials or ideas. People care about themselves.”
  • The craft is in asking authentic questions to get the other person engaged.

• Notable Advice:

  • "You have to do it about something you're actually interested in because otherwise, people feel that instantly."
    – David Rogier ([03:09])

Creating Engaging and High-Quality Learning Experiences

• Production Value Matters ([06:15])

  • MasterClass content stands out because it “does not look like a class. They look like a Netflix movie.”
    • Production value isn’t just about technology—set, location, lighting, and timing are unexpectedly impactful.
    • Collaboration with Oscar-winning filmmakers like Bill Guttentag and Jay Roach elevated the content and reduced the risk for participating instructors.

• DIY Tips for Non-Professionals ([08:23])

  • Even on Zoom or home setups, attention to visual quality and inspiration from favorite formats can make a strong impact.
  • "Maybe I should just invest in where I shoot and the time of day and you're going to start to see things like that. That's not that expensive, but that actually has a huge impact."
    – David Rogier ([06:15])

Leadership Across Diverse Teams

• Adapting Communication Styles ([09:10])

  • Technical and creative teams respond to feedback differently:
    • Creatives prefer high-level, open-ended observations (e.g., “My attention is waning here. Why?”).
    • Technical or business teams desire specific, actionable notes (e.g., "This call to action isn’t bold enough.").
    • "I found that I have to change the altitude almost— that agility all of us can develop, but it’s the sensitivity to what this person or these type of people in these roles, what do they respond best to?"
      – Matt Abrahams ([10:23])

• Temptation to Dictate vs. Enable ([10:42])

  • David admits, “When I’m tired or frustrated, I just want to say, please change this to this... It feels good at the time... but it usually ends up a worse result.”
    • The best outcomes emerge from asking “why” and enabling others to solve.

Lessons from the World’s Best

• Lifelong Learning Among Masters ([11:20])
  • Even high achievers “are still continually trying to improve their own craft.”
  • "And I realize that if these masters are still continually trying to improve their own craft, I don’t have any excuses. I got to keep doing that.”
    – David Rogier ([11:20])

Personal Journey: Communication and Tenacity

• Overcoming a Stutter ([12:44])

  • David shares that having a stutter heightened his empathy, awareness, and interest in oratory.
  • His parents’ approach: “You can stutter, and you stutter, but we don’t expect you to let that block you from doing anything.”
  • Recounts a pivotal moment where peer feedback revealed that perceived weaknesses (like his stutter) elicited empathy, not the negative reactions he assumed.
    • “For 28 years of my life, I had this one story in my head and that was not the story everybody else was having.”
      – David Rogier ([14:31])

• The Role of Tenacity

  • Tenacity is a recurring theme: pitching MasterClass, creative persistence, self-acceptance, and communication.
  • “Tenacity in your own life to just keep going with your communication. And that’s something I think all of us can benefit from.”
    – Matt Abrahams ([13:59])

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Memorable Quotes

• “Education is the only thing that someone can't take away from somebody else.”
  — David Rogier ([02:26])

• “People don’t care about that. People care about themselves. And so it was much more effective for me to ask them questions, a lot of questions.”
  — David Rogier ([03:09])

• “Our classes do not look like a class. They look like a Netflix movie.”
  — David Rogier ([06:15])

• “You have to adapt. I think it helps to go deep with some of them.”
  — David Rogier ([09:10])

• "If these masters are still continually trying to improve their own craft, I don’t have any excuses. I got to keep doing that."
  — David Rogier ([11:20])

• “For 28 years of my life, I had this one story in my head and that was not the story everybody else was having.”
  — David Rogier ([14:31])

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Timestamps for Important Topics

• Motivation to Democratize Education: [02:26]
• Insights on Pitching World-Class Talent: [03:09]
• Production Quality & Visual Experience: [06:15]
• Actionable Tips for Non-Professionals: [08:23]
• Managing and Leading Diverse Teams: [09:10]
• Lessons from Top Instructors: [11:20]
• Overcoming Stuttering & Empathy: [12:44]
• Tenacity and Personal Growth: [13:59]
• Receiving Feedback and Challenging Assumptions: [14:31]

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Lightning Round – Personal & Practical Wisdom

• Martial Arts Lessons ([17:19])

  • Focus and presence during training; humility from "getting your butt kicked," and newfound awareness of subtle details.

• Admired Communicator ([18:27])

  • Vintage Jesse Jackson, especially a 1984 speech in a Philadelphia church.

• Top 3 Ingredients for Effective Communication ([19:00])

  1. Identify what your audience wants/needs right now.
  2. Agility: Adapt your message on the fly.
  3. Keep your eyes on the prize: Focus on your bigger goal, despite distractions or disagreements.

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Conclusion

This episode offers an insightful exploration of mastering learning and communication, highlighting the necessity of empathy, adaptability, tenacity, and a lifelong learning mindset. David Rogier’s candid storytelling and tactical advice provide listeners with practical approaches for pitching, leading, creating impactful content, and overcoming personal communication challenges.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, Matt here. I wanted to remind you that for each episode we provide English language learning support where we share useful information to help you develop your English skills. Check out these English language learning and other resources along with our newsletter and Deep Dive videos at Faster, Smarter IO under Resources. Now a word from our sponsors. Their support covers the cost of production, allowing us to bring you this episode free of charge. Strawberry Me makes coaching accessible, affordable and global, connecting you with a coach who's the right fit for you. I've had the privilege of working with some truly great coaches and I've also spent many years coaching others. And I can tell you firsthand, coaching makes a real difference. The challenge is that coaching has often felt out of reach for a lot of people.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

To truly hone and master a skill, we have to take the time to learn from experts. My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast, Talk Smart, the podcast. Today, I look forward to chatting with David Rogier. David is the founder and CEO of Masterclass, the streaming platform that makes it possible for anyone to learn from the world's best. David is passionate about democratizing access to genius level knowledge. Well, David, thank you so much for joining me. I'm really excited for our conversation. Shall we get started?

[C]

Sure.

[B]

So, to begin, I am a avid participant and student of Masterclass and thanks to you and your team, I'm honored that I have a Masterclass certifications course coming out on strategic communication. And so thank you for that. It was a lot of fun and I hope everybody gets a lot of value out of it.

[A]

Like me.

[B]

You are very passionate about education. I'd like to start by asking you what motivates you to help others learn and develop skills?

[C]

I was raised in part by my grandmother and my grandmother escaped the Holocaust. And I think one of the things that she really instilled in me that education is the only thing that someone can't take away from somebody else. And I think I really internalized that at a very young age. That definitely drove me to create masterclass, but also I think probably fueled my zest for learning.

[B]

Excellent. And you've brought that learning to lots and lots of people. In the early days of Masterclass, you had to convince world class talent to trust you. A small startup. How did you think about pitching what you were doing to people of that nature?

[C]

I assumed that is in a function the same way as in the business world. In the business world, if you know somebody in common with somebody else, the person makes an introduction, you will usually talk to them. It's not how it works in entertainment industry. In fact, it's designed to do the opposite. Every celebrity has four to five people whose job it is is to not let you do that. So every celebrity has an agent, a manager, a PR person, signs, a financial advisor, and usually a spouse. Now, of those five people, only one of them has actual influence over that person. But the job of the other four is to convince you that it's them. But it's not, it's only one of them. And if you go to the wrong person, you're going to get a fast no. So part of the craft was to just learn that two was then to figure out who is that one of the five and then how do I pitch that one out of the five? And what I had to learn was that I have to get them to like me and trust me. And I could do that in a few ways. I could associate and attach myself to people on the project and bring them in who they trust. So these were film directors they'd already worked with before, or film directors that had won an Oscar before. Thinking about their fear is like, is this person going to look bad? And so how do you drop that risk? Two was you have to get them to actually like you and trust you. And I had to learn the craft of that. And I think I walked into those early rooms thinking I'm pretty special. I have a master's degree from Stanford. My mom says I'm amazing. This idea is gonna change the world of education. People don't care about that. People care about themselves. And so it was much more effective for me to ask them questions, a lot of questions. And when somebody asks you questions about things that you wanna talk about, you like them more. Now I think there's a craft to what questions you ask. You have to do it something that you're actually interested in because otherwise people feel that instantly. So I'm glad to dive more into that. But I think there is a craft to how to pitch and a lot of that is Relationship building for this.

[B]

So many rich things there that you talked about. First, you have to start by really appreciating the circumstance and those who have access and influence to the people that you're trying to persuade or motivate. You have to think about how you approach them. In your case, it was about de risking the reputation and really coming from a place of authentic curiosity to get them talking. And I think we can all benefit from that in anything we're pitching or in any relationship. And you've been quite successful at it. Having been in the chair for a master class certificates, I have witnessed firsthand the production quality that seems to be very important to you and to your team to make sure that it really has an aesthetic and a look. Talk to me about where that comes from and how those listening who aren't going to have access to the cruise and the expertise that you have. How important is it to really think through the visuals, the experience? Even for those of us who are just doing virtual calls and video conferencing,

[C]

part of our success is that our classes do not look like a class. They look like a Netflix movie. Now, it's not just the look, it's also then the production value, how engaging it is and all those other things. I had filmed some stuff on my own for test shoots and they looked horrible. And so we went to our friends and people we knew and one of the first people we went to was actually a professor here at Stanford. His name is Professor Bill Guttentag. He's an Oscar winning film director. And I got introduced to him and I was like, hey, I'm really stuck. Our stuff looks bad. You know, I was like, any advice? What types of people, what type of gear? And he's like, you're not going to ask me to shoot. I'm like, you're willing to shoot it? He's like, this sounds awesome. So Bill shot a bunch of our first classes and that really up leveled us. The other person was Jay Roach, who had a really big impact on that too, and also shot some of our first few classes. I think that did a couple things. One is achieve what we wanted to on the engagement side and how good it looked. Two, it brought down the risk for the instructors because if Bill Gudentag and Jay Roach are going to film this, I've seen their stuff, it's really good. Okay. I know I'm going to look pretty good. So if you're at home doing this, I think think a lot about what is the form factor supposed to be. So for Example, if it's live zoom calls that you're doing, then like it should look like a zoom call. But I think there's opportunities to make that look good and I think some aren't that expensive to do. And I think one of the best ways to figure that out is look at two or three films or TV shows or YouTube, things that you think look really good and break down yourself or find a friend who knows more than you break down, how did they make that? And oftentimes you're going to be like, oh, it's the locations actually more important than I thought because the location adds depth, lighting, everything. So you're like, you know what, maybe I should just invest in where I shoot and the time of day and you're going to start to see things like that. That's not that expensive, but that actually has a huge impact.

[B]

Really important point. I want to put an exclamation point on which is think about the environment in which you present yourself and second look at and observe others that you enjoy that you think add value and then explore how they do that. And like you said, it's not that expensive, but it can make a tremendous difference. The content is important, but the experience of the content is equally important. I really like that as a leader, you lead people who are very technical, very content specific, but also others who are very creative that can be hard in terms of management and leadership style to lead people whose goal is the creative and those who are the business and more technical. Any advice and guidance to our listeners who find themselves in a similar role? What helps you manage those different types of people?

[C]

You have to adapt. I think it helps to go deep with some of them. So if you're working with folks in film, sit in the edit bays with them, watch as sound is mixed, get deep so that you know each step of it and what it takes. And the same way, if it's engineering or marketing or whatever, I have found that my style has to change. So on the content side, creatives respond much stronger to a note that is a high level note. Hey, in this portion I find my attention is starting to wane. Why is that? Or what are we able to do about it? And they need just high level note and it's not you solving it for them. It's just the observation I found though on the marketing side or on the product side, folks like more specific notes. If you're like, you know this page, I'm just not feeling to click. They're like, what the hell does that mean versus like, hey, the call to action, I think, isn't bold enough, isn't strong enough. Like, okay, yes, I can work on that. So I found that I have to change the altitude almost that agility all

[B]

of us can develop, but it's really the sensitivity to what does this person or these type of people in these roles, what do they respond best to? And I really like this idea of giving feedback through questions and then also being able to get very specific to what your experience is and how that relates to perhaps others.

[C]

And it's hard because, like, when I'm tired or frustrated, I just want to say, please change this to this and this to this. And I've done that before, and it's not nearly as effective because the mental shortcut I'm taking is I know more than that person, and I don't. And so it feels good at the time. It's easier to do, but it usually ends up a worse result in the moment.

[B]

It might feel like it's solving the situation or the problem, but in fact, it might be causing damage in the future. Yes, I know this is a completely unfair question, but across the content that you have created and brought to the world, is there one area or one lesson that you've learned that has really profoundly impacted you?

[C]

I mean, we have sat across from 300 of the best in the world, from Christina Aguilera to Steph Curry to Matt Abrams. And I think I had this assumption that once you reach the top, you just chill. Like, Christina can sing when she wants to. Steph can play how long he wants to, and that you're in a state where you can choose when to invest time, and you don't need to invest that much. Boy, was I wrong. Every instructor, as we film on any cut, is asking us for notes. Once the class is done, we're in the testing phase. Instructors want all the input they already gave. Once the class is live, most of them send us an email or call us and be like, I want to change this. I think this is able to be improved. And I realize that if these masters are still continually trying to improve their own craft, I don't have any excuses like, I got to keep doing that. And so I think that was a lot of personal growth for me.

[B]

I think that's a wonderful lesson, that the people at the top of their game are still working and striving, and perhaps that's what helped them get to the top of their game. I'd like to get personal. You and I talked about this a little bit. So you Have a stutter. It is something you've had for your whole life. What have you learned about communication through having a stutter and what has it changed? And what advice would you give to people who might have some speech impediment? Everything from an accent to a stutter.

[C]

It was really hard as a kid. I mean, I was teased for it. I think teachers in school didn't know how to handle it. So some would not call on me because, you know, out of positive intent but not wanting me to have to speak when I was called on. To read something. If you stutter is very difficult because one of the tools you use is you substitute words and you can't do that when you read something. I think what it made me throughout my life is my empathy for people and expressing themselves is much higher. I think I'm much more aware of speech. And I told you, I think one of the things I started doing as a kid was watching people give speeches and just being more aware of the mechanics that they use. So I became much more obsessed with it. I think my approach, I think my parents had a big impact on was, you know, when I was a kid, my parents approach was we expect you to talk and communicate. You can stutter and you stutter, but we don't expect you to let that block you from doing anything. And so when they had friends over, the expectation was I would sit with their friends and join them in conversation. And so I think their very much approach was I'm going to give you a hug, but you just are going to keep going. So I think that's probably part of my appreciation on the oratory side, that

[B]

notion of taking what you're dealt with and managing it I think is important for everybody, be it an accent, a stuttering. I'm noticing a theme, David, across everything we've talked about. Tenacity plays a role. We talked about tenacity in pursuing getting people to sign up when you were just starting out. Tenacity in the work that you admire and the masters you bring on and tenacity in your own life to just keep going with your communication. And that's something that I think all of us can benefit from and it will look different for all of us, but it's important.

[C]

Yeah, I don't think life is worth to live without that. You have to work hard. And I think sometimes surprises like I remember I was in some group with an exercise where we would give people feedback on how they, how the person talks and I was shocked. I got notes on my stutter and what the group said the effects were, it was the opposite of what I had in my head, on my head. Makes me sound less smart, makes me not get the idea out. People get bored, that people get annoyed. People have an urge to say the word for you. And the feedback from the group was like, oh, that doesn't go through our head. I'm like, what? I'm like, what does go through your head? You're like, oh, I'm more endeared to you. Like, I'm seeing this as difficult for you. I'm more like attached to you. I'm like, I'm sorry, what? And it's just for 28 years of my life, I had this one story in my head and that was not the story everybody else was having. And you're like. And I think that's true for so many of the things that we are insecure about.

[B]

What a lovely gift to get that. And perhaps there's a lesson in there for all of us to seek out feedback from trusted others who can help us check our assumptions. Because you had an assumption going into this that was contrary to what you learned.

[A]

We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge. This episode is sponsored by Squarespace. We spend a lot of time on this show talking about communication, but one thing we don't discuss as often is what happens after you've shared an idea. Maybe you've given a presentation, appeared on a podcast, or met someone at an event. Eventually, people are going to want to learn more about your work. That's why having a strong online presence matters. Squarespace makes it easy to create a professional website that showcases who you are and what you offer. Whether you're offering consulting, coaching, speaking courses or other services, Squarespace gives you the tools to present those offerings and manage everything in one place. I also appreciate the built in analytics. Those insights can help you make smarter decisions about where to focus your time and energy. A great website helps turn interest into opportunity. Head to squarespace.comtfts for a free trial. And when you're ready to Launch, use code TFTS to save 10% off off your first purchase of a website or domain. And now back to the conversation.

[B]

This whole conversation has been fantastic, David, as you well know. I end with three questions. One, I make up just for you. And two, that I've been asking everybody for a long time. Are you up for that?

[C]

Let's do it.

[B]

Another personal Question. You and I talked on our way over to this conversation. You and I are both martial artists. Tenacity is part of that as well. What draws you to the martial arts and are there any lessons that you've learned? I've learned a lot of lessons for life in the dojo. I'm curious what draws you and what lessons?

[C]

Part of what draws me, and I like it that for the hour and hour and a half I'm there, you can't think of anything else because otherwise you are going to get choked out. I also, it makes me so much more aware of things I wasn't aware of. The angle of my wrist, the how I'm shifting my bot, my weight. And there's an appreciation of craft and skill that was invisible to me before. I didn't even know. I never even thought of those things before. So there's appreciation there. There is a humility because you get your butt kicked all the time.

[B]

There is nothing like the immediate feedback you get in a physical activity. There's no if, ands and buts. You get the feedback both good and bad. And I totally resonate when you say you become aware of things that you didn't even know that you didn't know you knew. And I totally appreciate that presence that it requires. And these are skills that anybody can find in any physical activity. It doesn't have to be grappling with somebody or throwing a kick or a punch. It could be walking in nature. But I really like that you see that. Question number two, who's a communicator that you admire and why?

[C]

There are a lot. I'm going to pick one that isn't as expected. Vintage Jesse Jackson. There's a speech he gave in 1984 when he was running to be the Democratic no Many for president. And he gave the speech in a church in Philadelphia. The speech is remarkable.

[B]

Amazing example. Clearly an amazing communicator. Final question, David. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

[C]

I think you've got to figure out. One is what does that person actually want and need right now? This is another part of yours then the ability to change and adapt that on the fly when you see they've done it and then keeping like the eyes on the prize. What I mean by this is you might be in a negotiation where somebody just needs to vent and when they vent, they're going to say things that you probably do not agree with. But if your eyes on the prize, and the prize is to close a deal, you don't need to argue about each of those things. You just let the person talk, you say you heard them, and you try to figure out how to move things along. But it's very easy to be like, whoa, whoa whoa, whoa, I didn't agree to parts 2, 8 and 12 that you just said. But doing that isn't going to actually solve anything.

[B]

So it's about audience make sure you understand what they need. It's about agility to adjust to what happens and then that focus on what your ultimate goal is, regardless of some of the hiccups and backwards steps that happen along the way. David, this has been a fantastic conversation. Sharing your motivations, your tenacity are great insights for all of us and a role model for what we can achieve. And thank you for putting out educational content that we can all benefit from and grow with.

[C]

Of course. And thanks for being a part of it.

[B]

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast to learn more about communication in a variety of of context. Please check out our many back catalog episodes. This episode was produced by Kathryn Reed, Alex McCarthy, Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is from Floyd Wonder with special thanks to Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider joining our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning community at fastersmarter IO Learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, Matt's AI coach, and a book club opportunity. Again, that's fastersmarter IO learning to become part of our Think Fast Talk Smart Learning community.

[A]

Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening. It really means a lot to hear how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives. It inspires me and the whole team that brings you this show. If you want more episodes and resources, feel free to follow, subscribe and explore past conversations. We're grateful for your support of Think Fast, Talk Smart.