313. Hold the Headline: How Curiosity Cuts Through Complexity

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Think Fast, Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

Episode 313: “Hold the Headline: How Curiosity Cuts Through Complexity”

Host: Matt Abrahams
Guest: Naima Raza (Journalist, Producer, Host of Smart Girl Dumb Questions)
Release Date: August 10, 2026

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Overview

This episode explores the essential role of curiosity and chemistry in simplifying complex information for effective communication. Matt Abrahams interviews Naima Raza, whose career spans journalism, documentary filmmaking, and podcasting. Together, they discuss practical frameworks and personal philosophies for translating intricate topics into accessible, engaging messages. Naima shares tools for “headline thinking,” the emotional aspects of connecting with an audience, and how curiosity, openness, and preparation shape more impactful conversations.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Naima’s Communication Background & Philosophy

• Multi-faceted Communication Roles
  Naima traces her journey from management consulting through journalism, documentary filmmaking, and leading podcasts and a TED talk. Her experience as a "third culture kid" gave her a unique lens on synthesizing and translating information for diverse audiences.
  • “My entire life, I’ve been what’s called… a third culture kid… I learned to speak body language and read what was happening." (03:21, Naima)
• Focusing on the Big Picture
  Naima emphasizes balancing detail with big-picture messaging—both as a receiver and communicator—focusing on the essence over minutiae.

Making Complex Content Accessible

• Levity & Gravity
  Naima identifies her “superpower” as bringing levity to serious topics and depth to light ones:
  • “The ability to bring some levity to topics of gravity… and gravity to topics of levity." (04:17, Naima)
• Mastering the Headline & the Nine-Word Rule
  • Naima advocates for communication as headline-crafting—making messages punchy, direct, and true to the story, without being polarizing.
  • “The best questions I’ve ever been asked in my life are nine words or less.” (05:30, Naima)
    Matt connects this to everyday practices like email subject lines and slide titles.

The Emotional Side of Communication

• Confidence vs. Certainty
  Naima distinguishes between being confident in delivery versus rigid in opinion, advocating for space to incorporate others’ perspectives.
  • “We have conflated confidence and certainty a little bit… the dumbest thing you can be is a know-it-all.” (08:15, Naima)
• Curiosity as a Core Ingredient
  Confidence should leave room for curiosity, listening, and updating one’s views—a theme reinforced throughout the episode.

Managing Nerves & the Role of Preparation

• Nervousness as a Signal
  Both guest and host admit to feeling anxious before interviews—not because of star power, but due to limited time and the desire to make the most of the conversation.
  • “I get nervous about how little time there is and whether I can do everything that I want to do.” (09:56, Naima)
• Being in Service & Letting Go
  Focusing on the guest’s experience and being “in service of others” helps relieve anxiety (11:17, Matt).
  • “When you can get in that present moment, when you can be in service of others, I think the anxiety abates, the confidence builds.” (12:05, Matt)
• Preparation vs. Spontaneity
  Naima describes the importance of a “sweet spot”—preparing with a reliable map, but being ready to improvise and throw out the script.
  • “I like to be prepared enough that I have a map and then absolutely prepared to throw it away.” (12:38, Naima)

From Legacy Media to Independent Creation

• Risk, Reward, and Caring Deeply
  Naima contrasts individual content creation with working in legacy media:
  • “A lot more risk, a lot more reward. That’s the simple headline of it.” (13:36, Naima)
• Team, Feedback, and Purpose
  She notes the challenge of finding collaborators who care as deeply and the danger of a world with “8 billion channels,” emphasizing the importance of clear purpose and unique tone in creative work.
  • “I only did this show because I felt I had something to say… or a tone that I didn’t find in the world.” (15:06, Naima)
• Missing Middle & Purpose-Driven Content
  Naima advocates for a blend of entertainment, substance, and usefulness in content, surpassing traditional and influencer-driven formats.

Technology, Curiosity, and Wisdom

• Screens, Presence & Kids’ Perspectives
  Naima’s recent TED Talk highlighted how digital experiences can sometimes feel more “together” than real life, drawing insights from interviews with two 11-year-olds.
  • “Our ability to be present in a physical world has been completely distracted by these devices and our ability to be present on them... has gone up.” (17:01, Naima)
• Wisdom and Its Place Today
  Matt and Naima discuss whether wisdom is being lost in the information age. Naima voices concerns over generational shifts and a culture obsessed with novelty over experience.
  • “I think we’re very interested in what’s new, what’s fresh, what’s cool… But I do think that there’s a wisdom of that experience that is not being translated as much in our current world.” (20:56, Naima)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “The best questions I’ve ever been asked in my life are nine words or less.”
  — Naima Raza (05:30)
• “The dumbest thing you can be is a know-it-all.”
  — Naima Raza (08:15)
• “When you can get in that present moment, when you can be in service of others, I think the anxiety abates, the confidence builds.”
  — Matt Abrahams (12:05)
• “A lot more risk, a lot more reward. That’s the simple headline of it.”
  — Naima Raza on leaving legacy media (13:36)
• “I only did this show because I felt I had something to say… or a tone that I didn’t find in the world.”
  — Naima Raza (15:06)
• “Our ability to be present in a physical world has been completely distracted by these devices and our ability to be present on them... has gone up.”
  — Naima Raza (17:01)
• “The purpose-driven approach stands out in what you just said. It’s not just about getting information out. It’s having a purpose behind that information.”
  — Matt Abrahams (15:50)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:52] - Introduction of Naima Raza & Her Background
• [03:21] - Naima on the influence of her international upbringing
• [04:17] - The power of levity and gravity in communication
• [05:30] - The "nine words or less" rule for questions
• [08:15] - Curiosity, confidence, and certainty
• [09:56] - Managing interview nerves
• [12:38] - Finding the sweet spot between preparation and improvisation
• [13:36] - Transitioning from legacy media to independent creator
• [15:06] - The “missing middle” in content tone and approach
• [17:01] - Insight from interviewing 11-year-olds for TED Talk
• [20:56] - Concerns about society’s relationship to wisdom
• [23:28] - Lessons from Naima’s father: presence and forgiveness
• [25:23] - Kendrick Lamar as a communicator
• [26:13] - Ingredients for successful communication: curiosity, chemistry, awareness

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Closing Rapid-Fire Questions & Reflections

[23:28] Lessons from Naima’s father:

• “To be present and not let the other shit get in the way… he really didn’t believe in holding a grudge… and he had that ability to… maintain relationships and give great forgiveness.” (23:28, Naima)

[25:23] Communicator admired:

• “Kendrick Lamar. He’s just so poetic. His lyrics are really spot on. They’re catchy… the ability to poetically, succinctly and emotionally talk about very difficult things.” (25:29, Naima)

[26:13] Three ingredients for successful communication:

1. Curiosity
2. Chemistry
3. Awareness of what’s missing (sense of what’s not in the room)

• “…so that you can expand a conversation, a communication, so that you can leave a conversation and think about how to take it beyond this world…” (26:25, Naima)

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Summary Takeaways

• Headline Thinking: Clarify, condense, and make messages immediate—adapting journalistic techniques for everyday communication.
• Curiosity First: Confidence should never edge out curiosity; ask simple, direct, open questions and leave room to consider new perspectives.
• Levity & Depth: Meet the audience where they are—inject humor into serious issues and substance into lighter topics.
• Preparation vs. Presence: Find the balance between structured preparation and the willingness to improvise.
• Purpose Over Projection: Content creation with intention and unique voice wins over noise and mass broadcasting.
• Translating Wisdom: Combine lived experience and openness to new information; be intentional about carrying wisdom forward in a rapidly changing digital age.

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For listeners and communicators alike, this episode is a masterclass in the art of simplifying complexity while staying curious, open, and authentically connected.

Transcript

[Matt Abrahams]

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[Matt Abrahams]

Curiosity and chemistry are critical to successful communication. My name is Matt Abrahams and I teach strategic communication at Stanford Graduate School of Business. Welcome to Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. Today, I'm excited to speak with Naima Raza. Naima is a journalist, producer and creator. She was the co host and executive producer of the hit podcast on with Kara Swisher. She now hosts her own podcast, Smart Girl D Questions. Her work has appeared in the New York Times and New York Magazine, and she's produced documentary films that bridge complex geopolitical issues with accessible human narratives.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Nemo, thank you for being here and welcome to the Spotify Studios in New York. It's awesome to be with you and continue with the conversations we've had on the phone and on email in person.

[Naima Raza]

Thank you so much for having me. I love Your show, and I'm so thrilled to be part of it.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Excellent. Should we get started?

[Naima Raza]

Yes, let's jump in.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

So if you look at your career from management consultant to journalist to podcast, you've changed a lot.

[Naima Raza]

Yes. And you missed documentary filmmaking.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I did. I did.

[Matt Abrahams]

That's true. That's true. And now TED Speaker.

[Naima Raza]

Yes. And for people listening, I am not old. I just want you to know that I am young still.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

That's right. You're very young and very hip in all of those roles, actually, you've had to synthesize complex information and make it accessible to people. What kind of tools and frameworks do you use to help make that content easier? Easily understood.

[Naima Raza]

So much of it has to do with how I grew up. I grew up in Indonesia and Sudan. I'm Pakistani, born in dc My entire life, I've been what's called. The technical term is a third culture kid. In environments where I didn't necessarily always speak the language. Didn't always. And so I learned to speak body language and read what was happening. And I think sometimes we get caught up in the details of a moment. But when I'm making a film or a podcast or telling a story or making a slide, I think part of the gift of how I grew up is being able to focus on that big picture and think about what the message is that's coming across both as I'm receiving it and as I'm kind of projecting it.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

One of the things I have found so useful in the way you communicate and break things down is you make it relevant so you connect it to the people who are listening, which I think really helps. Do you do that consciously, or is that just something that happens?

[Naima Raza]

I think that it's something that I've become conscious of, and I do increasingly so. I think that my kind of superpower as a communicator is the ability to bring some levity to topics of gravity.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

And to bring some gravity to topics of levity. And what I mean by that is, you know, if you're talking about the world today, politics, war, et cetera, oh, my God, it can be such a bummer. And you just want to have a little bit of sense that the world continues, that we. And so I think infusing some comedy into that levity into that, while not discounting the gravity of the situation. One of. I think the best ways that I've learned to condense information is in the business of headline writing, which is a very fraught enterprise these days. But you want to write A headline. When you're writing at the New York Times or elsewhere, and we have a lot of conversation about what the headline should be, you want it to grab people's attention, but you want it to be faithful to the story. You, I don't think, want it to be polarizing, but you do want it to be provocative. And so I think as I started doing a lot of headline writing, I decided that the best questions I've ever been asked in my life are nine words or less.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Interesting, huh?

[Naima Raza]

And I think that's the same because if you think about conversation or you have someone's cutting through, like right now, blah, blah, blah, you're hearing this, then I say, how do we solve that? That's what you hear. That's what we digest. So I think there's something about this punchy, direct question that can really help cut through the noise. Sometimes you're asking that to somebody because you're interviewing them. Sometimes you're asking that to yourself to get yourself to be a better communicator and understander and interpreter of what's going on.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I really like this idea of thinking about your important communication as a headline. Now, most of us aren't writing headlines for news outlets, but we do write emails with subject lines. We do name our meetings. We do put titles on slides. And that advice, I think, applies there as well. And if. And keeping. I'm going to try the nine word rule and see if we can. If that applies in the work. I do. But I absolutely like that idea.

[Naima Raza]

I think it's particularly useful for questions. Yes, particularly useful for questions.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

It's thinking about the emotion as well as the content and breaking it down. And those are all, I think, the right ingredients for helping make complex information more accessible. And I appreciate that you do that and continue to do that.

[Matt Abrahams]

We'll be right back to finish our conversation. But first, a quick word from one of our sponsors. Their support allows us to bring you this show free of charge. One of my favorite things about this show is hearing from listeners all over the world. Communication connects us. And the more people you can communicate with, the bigger your world becomes. So many of you are collaborating internationally, working across cultures, or simply trying to connect more deeply with people around the world. That's one reason I've been thinking more and more about language learning. Babbel focuses on helping you have real conversations with real people, not just memorized vocabulary. Their lessons are designed by more than 200 language experts and built around practical communication skills you can actually use in everyday life. And because the lessons are short and approachable. It's easy to fit them in a busy schedule. Just 10 minutes a day can help you make meaningful progress. If you've ever thought about learning a new language, this is the perfect opportunity to start. Right now, Babbel is offering up to 60% off your [e-mail] TFTS and now back to our conversation.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

A lot of your roles have been roles as translator in some ways, translating technical information, translating for the audience, for a performer. And you've been in the position often of being a translator for Gen Z and millennials for folks of my gener. Do you like that role? Do you have certain things you bring to that role?

[Naima Raza]

I mean, I think every type of communication is a moment of translation as well. I mean, now that I'm in the host seat and kind of star of my own show, I still think of myself as being the advocate. Even the title, Smart Girl, Dumb Questions. It's around the kind of confidence to be curious. And I think about that a lot, Matt, with your work, because you write a lot about confidence and the ability to communicate from that point position. But I think we have conflated confidence and certainty a little bit.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Ah, tell me more about that.

[Naima Raza]

You want to be confident enough that there is some space left in your opinion to consider how other people think, to consider new information and to digest that and, and kind of update your own worldview with that new information. Not so confident in your opinion that you cannot hear anything else, that you shut down the kind of first. And so I, I think, you know, like I said in the TED talk I just gave, it's like the dumbest thing you can be is a know it all. And I have seen that play out.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

You make a really useful distinction there between confidence we have in our ability to communicate and confidence in the things we are communicating. And I absolutely agree that that confidence in what we're saying, there needs to be some room for creativity, for openness. Because if we're, if we're sure of ourselves so much that we don't bring in other opinions, you know, then we are being, as you said, d and being a know it all. So I'm curious. You certainly are confident in your opinions and ideas. Do you still get nervous when you interview people and when you're interacting? And if so, how do you manage that?

[Naima Raza]

No, of course I do. Do you?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Of course, yeah.

[Naima Raza]

I mean, I think it's. You're nervous because anytime you film or make something, and I learned this as a documentary filmmaker when I was doing this film on the band sublime Tribeca in 2019. Like when you're in the edit room and you're. And you're. You ask the editor, well, why don't we have that? And it's like, well, because you didn't get it while you were producing the. So it's that scarcity of time when you're in conversation with someone that puts the pressure on. It's not who they are. I actually don't. I actually, I think I give more reverence on my show when I interview two 11 year olds or two doormen than when I interview Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Mark Cuban. But I get nervous about how little time there is and whether I can do everything that I want to do.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

That's what I feel. That same way when especially in this capacity is people are gifting you their time and I want to. I get nervous that I'm not going to make it a good experience for them or get as much out of it.

[Naima Raza]

But I try. I think it's. You're doing an amazing, amazing job. I feel very much like this is worthwhile use of time and hope everyone listening and watching does too. I think people really want to be understood. Part of the gift that we have as hosts is helping understand people. Sometimes people don't necessarily fully understand themselves and you're kind of unpacking and translating that. But I think if you enter in the conversation good faith and you're really trying to understand someone, then the conversation is often, if not always a success.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

And it's that approach that I think can help calm some of those nerves. Knowing that I'm here to really listen, to allow the person to be heard. When you get out of yourself and realize you're in service of other people, it can really reduce that anxiety.

[Naima Raza]

By the way, every time I stop recording, I'm always like, that was terrible. Doesn't matter what I do. Do you have that or do you have more confidence on the other end?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I. Interesting. I do have that. I don't think that was terrible. I think that could have been better.

[Naima Raza]

Yes, that's actually what I should say. I don't think it was terrible.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yeah, I'm just, oh, that could have been better. And not on the guest's part, but it's usually my part. It's like, I could have done this or I should have done that. Yeah. I have a friend who talks about how we shouldn't should all over ourselves and I unfortunately still do.

[Naima Raza]

It's just your ability to be in the moment is just difficult for all of us.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

No, absolutely. But when you can get in that present moment, when you can be in service of others, I think the anxiety abates, the confidence builds.

[Naima Raza]

But that's where I think preparation, and the right amount of preparation is so important because I have found that I do really well with improv. I host a debate sometimes at the Comedy Cellar in New York City for Open to Debate on npr. And I love that environment because when you have an intellectual threesome with two people on stage fighting with each other or sparring with each other and you're moderating, never know what's gonna happen.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I like the idea of an intellectual throuple, but.

[Naima Raza]

Okay, yes, Intellectual throuple. So I think I like to be prepared enough that I have a map and then absolutely prepared to throw it away. And I find when I'm over prepared and I have a script, it really doesn't serve. If it's like 30 questions, it doesn't serve me. If it's 10, it's perfect, right?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Absolutely. A lot of the work I've done around spontaneous speaking is preparing to be spontaneous. There's a whole bunch of stuff we can do as you're talking about, and there's that sweet spot where it's just enough give you the confidence and the directionality, but not so much that it's scripted and finding that everybody has to find their own sweet spot for that. But once you do, it really helps. You left your roles at the New York Times and Vox, which are two traditional media examples, to strike out on your own. I'm curious to get your thoughts as a creator in what's different? Doing the work you do as an individual creator versus working for more traditional media outlets.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. A lot more risk, a lot more reward. That's the simple headline of it.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

And a lot of work.

[Naima Raza]

A lot of work. I think the hardest thing has been you care so much about your own thing. I cared so much about other people's things. I cared about Sway at the New York Times. I cared about on with Karis Wisher, and I cared about Mixed Signals, which I co hosted at Semaphore with Ben Smith, my former colleague from the New York Times, as well. But it's a gift to be able to put all that care into something that you want to build and you think deserves to be in the world. And then the challenge becomes finding other people who care about it as much as you do. I have a great team, so I have found that. And people like Desta, my producer, Melissa Johnny Simon, who engineers our content. I mean, I found people who really care about it. So much so that sometimes I'll be like, can we get this out early? And they're like, it's not going to be as good. And I appreciate that.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yeah, that feedback, that feedback loop or, you know.

[Naima Raza]

But I think, okay, this is a very hard question for me because I also worry about a world in which we're all just broadcasting and projecting and everyone has their own channels and everyone has to be a creator and everyone. That's what we're being told now. What does 8 billion channels look like? And who the heck is left to watch? No wonder everything matters, right? Only in the first second, you know, So I think about it a lot. I think I only did this show because I felt I had something to say or a. Not even something to say. I felt I had a tone that I didn't find in the world.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Oh, interesting.

[Naima Raza]

I felt that I found people who were very angry, who are very certain, who were very unplugged, disinterested. But I wasn't finding that intersection of, okay, I want to be informed about the world and thoughtful about not the day to day news, but these big ideas. Capitalism, hyper independence, individualization, the shifting world order. But I want to talk about it in ways that really impact my own life and I want to do it with a sense of comedy. And the best thing I could find was comedians who would do this. But, you know, I think there is a missing middle of can you be much more entertaining than legacy media, much more factual than the average kind of podcast bro or chick, and, you know, more useful than yesterday's news?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

The purpose driven approach stands out in what you just said. It's not just about getting information out. It's having a purpose behind that information. I have worked very hard on thinking about the purpose of this show, and you've clearly thought about yours. And I think part of the advice I would give to anybody who starts down this path of being a creator is really know your purpose, really figure out what's motivating you because it's hard work. It's. And that purpose can really get you through some of that. I want to give you an opportunity to talk about your TED Talk that just came out. It's very brief but very effective. Talk to us about the idea of being curious in the modern age.

[Naima Raza]

1. It was such an honor and privilege to be invited to give a TED Talk. I wasn't expecting it. I'd done something at the Comedy Cellar and some of the editors at TED and Ignite were there and asked me to do this talk. I wanted to give a voice to two 11 year olds I'd interviewed on my show. And I had asked them, how does life on screens feel different to real life? Because I keep seeing kids. I don't have kids yet, but I see kids at airports, et cetera, just on FaceTime, not speaking to each other. Have you seen this?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Yeah. So I asked them why that happens and how that feels different to real life. And Sophie, then 11, now 12, says, you know, it just feels so much more together when you're with them on FaceTime. That blew my mind. And I was, what do you mean? Like even more than real life? And Sophie responds, yeah, because when you're on FaceTime, you're doing stuff together, you're playing together, you're doing homework together, you're doing roadblocks together. But nowadays when you're in real life, everyone's just on their phone, right? And I thought that was such an insight that our ability to be present in a physical world has been completely distracted by these devices and our ability to be present on them because they're full screen experiences has gone up. And that just made me think a lot about what else. We were disconnected from our own curiosities because we don't sit and wonder, we just ask the question and then know the answer and then project that answer out in conversation. And so that's really where the talk started from. And it kind of takes a personal turn of how I learned those lessons. But it was a gift to be able to share a little bit about how you think and the world works and also to be able to share those kids perspectives, which really caused a gasp in the room. When

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I watched the talk and heard it and I had actually seen your interview with them. It really is. You shake your head and go, what? Wait, hold on. But in that moment it makes you curious and you do a really nice job in the talk of not only advocating for the curiosities that you do, but the way in which you deliver it makes us curious and it's a nice example, and I encourage everybody to watch and listen to it, of how delivery reinforces the message in a very positive way. So playful. Because it's playful and it's curious and

[Matt Abrahams]

we see ourselves in many of the

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

things that you mention, but we don't feel bad about ourselves for it. We say, oh, okay, that's who I am, but I can do this other thing. So it's empowering in a way. And I think a lot of that is not just the wordplay, how you deliver it and making content accessible in that way. Not just making sure we understand it, but making us feel okay about it. I thought it was really well done. You're a great question. Ask me a question.

[Matt Abrahams]

I may or may not answer it,

[Naima Raza]

but go ahead, let me ask you.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Okay. I feel as a millennial, life is being co opted by Gen Z now. We love them and Gen Alpha increasingly. And I'm curious how you think about staying relevant as you age.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yeah, so I think a lot about aging and relevance. As I'm getting older and as I am seeing the impact I can have and what it means. I think it's all about, to your point, curiosity and listening. I have an amazing job. I get to work with mid 20 folks who are going to just change the world in amazing ways. And that helps me feel excited, it helps me feel relevant. And a lot of what I do is listen, I'm curious and ask questions. And those help me feel like I'm adding value. When I get the opportunity to work with my students or younger people and really listen, synthesize and ask questions, that really brings joy to me and hopefully relevance.

[Naima Raza]

Do you feel like we're losing wisdom?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I think wisdom is changing. I think the fact that so much information is now available, that the wisdom and access to information are very connected. But lived experience, intuition, gut feeling, that's not captured in an LLM. And I fear that people are just not curious or seeking wisdom. They're just seeking information. So are we losing it? No, I still think it's there. I just don't think. I fear that people aren't searching for it.

[Naima Raza]

That is one of the things I worry about in our culture. I think we're very interested in what's new, what's fresh, what's cool. And I think that. Look, I don't think. I'm not advocating for a gerontocracy. I think that people who are boomers and beyond probably don't need to be controlling Capitol Hill anymore. But I do think that there's a wisdom of that experience that is not being translated as much in our current world. And I sometimes worry about that.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

You know, to me, wisdom, there is wisdom is associated with experience. So the older you are, in theory, the more wisdom you have. But I have met very wise younger people as well. And so I think just this notion of being open, being curious, listening makes you available to wisdom. And some of the most insightful things I've learned, like you did from 11 year olds. I mean, what insight, what wisdom there in that conversation. So. Well, thank you for asking me a

[Naima Raza]

question that was okay.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

You know, there is no right, there is no wrong.

[Matt Abrahams]

Before we get started, a quick reminder to make sure you are following our show in whatever app you're listening to. This is the best way to help our show grow and to make sure you never miss an episode. And now a word from our sponsors. Their support helps us bring you this show free of charge. Over the course of my career, I've had the privilege of working with some truly amazing coaches. And I've also spent years coaching others. And I can tell you firsthand, coaching makes a real difference. That's why I really appreciate what Strawberry Me is doing. Strawberry Me makes coaching more accessible, affordable and global. Whether you want to become a stronger communicator, a more confident leader, or simply more intentional in your career, having the right coach in your corner can make an enormous difference. Visit Strawberry Me Smart and take 50% off of your first session. And make sure you let them know Matt sent you. And now back to our conversation.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

So before we end, I'd like to ask three questions. One I make up just for you. And then the other two I've been asking everybody as long as the show's been on. Are you willing to do that?

[Naima Raza]

Yes, of course. Does that count as a question?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

That's a warmup.

[Naima Raza]

Don't use one of your three on that.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Okay, I won't. It's not like wishes with genie. So to get very serious. By coincidence, the day we are recording is the anniversary of your father's passing. You wrote a very touching and personal article in the New York Times about your father. What is one lesson you wish people would take away from your father's life and his wisdom?

[Naima Raza]

Thank you for asking and for bringing him up and helping me remember him on this day. I'll give you two. One is from my dad and one is from what I've learned from the experience of losing him. I think the lesson I learned from my dad really was to. To be present and to not let the other. May I swear for a second you can. The other shit get in the way. My dad was the kind of guy who never held a grudge. Literally, somebody would be upset with him and not wanting to talk to him. And my dad would call his brother every Sunday to ask how he's doing and he would wear you down. You know, he really didn't believe in holding a grudge because at the end of the day, he Would say, well, what am I gonna do? He's my brother, he's my friend, you know, and he had that ability to. In a world where I think we're often think we want to cut people out of our life because of how they feel about an opinion, politically how they feel about something, how they showed up on that random Tuesday when we had something important. He had that ability to really hold people slander and to maintain relationships and give great forgiveness. So that's what I've learned and how I translate that lesson and think into my own life is that when you lose someone, it's often possible to get caught up. And I should have, as your friend said, should all over yourself. And I think that because he lived that way, I've been able to release some of the, you know, oh, I should have, you know, in the pandemic, why didn't I go quarantine at my parents house instead of going out with friends to, you know, all that kind of stuff. And I've learned that you really kind of have the ability to keep people alive and to keep having memories and meaning making in relationships that are gone.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

That's so true. We can keep the memory of people alive through how we talk about them and the meaning we make in our own lives. Thank you for sharing that and thank you for being here on a tough day. Question number two. Who is a communicator you admire and why?

[Naima Raza]

You know, I think Kendrick Lamar.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Tell me more about that.

[Naima Raza]

Has people said Kendrick Lamar?

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

You are the first to say Kendrick Lamar.

[Naima Raza]

I think that he's just so poetic. His lyrics are really spot on. They're catchy. I think this about a lot of kind of rappers, songwriters, but the ability to poetic succinctly and emotionally talk about very difficult things I think is reflected in Kendrick's work. And if you read it, I mean he's kind of like Chekhov. If you read it, you find it extremely deep and meaningful.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yeah, no, absolutely. And a lot of people don't think about the communicative power of that genre. And I appreciate you highlighting that. Final question. What are the first three ingredients that go into a successful communication recipe?

[Naima Raza]

I love that. You know, I'm going to say it's on brand, but number one, curiosity.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Yes.

[Naima Raza]

Number two, chemistry.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Okay.

[Naima Raza]

Being able to cultivate, create and create that chemistry with through pauses, through play, through jokes, through language, all the ways that you can kind of make sure that communication is true. You know, at least two way, if not an intellectual throuple or beyond. And number three, I'M gonna say a sense of what's not in the room, a sense of what's missing so that you can expand a conversation, a communication, so that you can leave a conversation and think about how to take it beyond this world and just you can be more aware.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

I think that last point about awareness about what's not present really allows for conversation and communication to expand and extend. And I think that's really powerful. And I appreciate the notion of chemistry connection building, that, having that as intention and of course, curiosity. Well, thank you for your time and for being so forthright and open and sharing with us how we can all be better translators and more curious in our lives. I appreciate your time.

[Naima Raza]

Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I love your show and I love the work that you do and I love how glorious I just want to say you are reaching people all over the world who this is a global challenge and you are doing a great job of helping people succeed in their own languages, in English, and just in everything they do. So thank you.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

Well, thank you. Best of luck to you as well.

[Naima Raza]

Thanks.

[Matt Abrahams]

Thank you for joining us for another episode of Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast. To hear more interesting and insightful episodes like this one, be sure to check out our back catalog of episodes in your favorite player or at Fast Talk fastersmarter IO. This episode was produced by Kathryn Reed, Ryan Campos and me, Matt Abrahams. Our music is by Floyd Wonder with special thanks to the team at Spotify Studios in New York City and Podium podcast company. Please find us on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts. Be sure to subscribe and rate us. Also, follow us on LinkedIn, TikTok and Instagram and check out fastersmarterio for deep dive videos, English language learning content and our newsletter. Please consider joining the Think Fast Talk Smart learning community at Fastersmarter IO Learning. You'll find video lessons, learning quests, discussion boards, my AI coach and book club opportunities. Again, that's FasterSmarter IO learning to be part of the Think Fast Talk Smart Learning Community. Before we wrap up, I just want to say thank you for listening.

[Matt Abrahams (Host)]

It really means a lot to hear

[Matt Abrahams]

how people all over the world are using these ideas in their own lives.

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[Matt Abrahams]

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