A Review of David (Angel Studios 2025)

Summary

Thinking Fellows Podcast

Episode: A Review of David (Angel Studios 2025)

Hosts: Caleb Keith & Scott Keith

Release Date: December 23, 2025

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Overview

In this special episode, Caleb and Scott Keith dive into a review of David, the new animated children’s film from Angel Studios, which dramatizes the biblical account of David from his anointing by Samuel through the death of Saul. While typically an academic podcast, the hosts use this episode to reflect on engaging, faith-based family entertainment, focusing both on the film’s quality and its theology. Their conversation splits into two main sections: first, assessing David as a movie, and second, analyzing its theological fidelity and implications.

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Why Review David?

• The Keiths note that this is a rare Thinking Fellows movie review, motivated by increasing parental frustration with mainstream studios like Disney embedding progressive moral and social values into children’s media ([02:37]).
• Angel Studios seeks to offer "wholesome" alternatives for families—something the hosts see as increasingly valuable for parents wanting to preserve their children’s moral imagination and catechesis ([03:15]-[06:00]).
• Review aims:
  • First half: Is David a good movie, irrespective of its theology?
  • Second half: Does its theology align with Scripture, or miss the mark? ([02:05])

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Movie Review: Is David Entertaining and Well-Made?

(No Theology Yet)

Animation, Storytelling, and Musical Elements

• Animation & Production:

  • Attempts to reach Disney/Pixar level in animation and musical numbers ([03:50]).
  • Not off-putting; voice acting is solid, though some line delivery is "on the nose." The film "warmed up" as it went along ([16:48]).

• Musicality:

  • Heavily reliant on singing; likened to Frozen in frequency, though not as sing-along-friendly ([10:49], [12:09]).
  • Some lyrics incorporate lines from the Psalms, creatively depicting King David as Israel’s lyricist ([12:33]).
  • For those not keen on Christian or praise music, the musical portions might feel "preachy," especially since the film’s moral messaging is delivered primarily through songs ([14:50]).

Memorable Quote

“When I took Esther to the bathroom, like in the middle of the movie, she looked at me and she goes, ‘It’s a good movie. The singing’s a bit much.’”
— Scott Keith ([11:47])

Engaging for Kids?

• Children’s reactions varied. Caleb’s oldest daughter rated David “better than Moana 2, on par with Bad Guys 2” ([10:49]).
• Compared favorably to previous faith-based animated releases and avoided being "cringe" or "hallmarky" ([25:00], [46:53]).
• Successfully balances entertainment and moral messaging—at least better than most other faith-based films ([25:00]-[27:08]).

Story Creativity & Character Portrayal

• Takes "creative license" like The Chosen, inserting elements not directly scriptural but not egregiously so ([09:02]).
• Focuses on David’s relationship with his mother (“Ima”), who acts as a narrator and primary female character—a notable creative choice since the biblical text gives more prominence to his father Jesse ([17:07]-[19:56]).
• The dynamic between David and Jonathan is particularly well handled and heartfelt ([16:50], [25:27]).
• The depiction of parents, especially fathers, is less resonant than shows like Bluey, which the hosts hold up as a cultural gold standard for positive fatherhood ([19:44]).

Memorable Quote

“There’s two people sort of types of people given to you in this movie. There’s the people who are with David who trust that the Lord will make it happen and there’s the people who are trying to trust themselves and they get worried and doubtful.”
— Scott Keith ([21:40])

Standout Moments, Emotional Resonance, and Critique

• No "tearjerker" Disney moment—film tried to create emotional bonds between David and his mother, didn’t always fully land ([25:00]).
• Filmmakers made a conscious effort not to dwell excessively on the David-and-Goliath scene, avoiding the usual Sunday school tropes ([26:42]).

Memorable Quote

“I would go watch a lot of movies right now if you didn’t try to like pigeonhole into it, your political agenda in the mouth of the character…It’s like you go to a Marvel movie and it’s preaching for two hours.”
— Scott Keith ([46:53], [48:06])

Overall Family Recommendation

• Hosts would take kids to see it again—solid for family viewing, especially for those seeking overtly safe, morally clear films ([20:32]).
• Rating: Caleb gives it a 4 out of 5 for today’s kids’ movies ([25:00]); Scott awards slightly lower marks due to a lack of emotional climaxes compared to Disney classics.

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Theological Review: Accuracy & Implications

1. Story Accuracy

• The hosts give David high marks for sticking to the major biblical beats (anointing, Saul’s failure, David’s rise) and including most major narrative elements.
• Where it departs:
  • Tones down David’s violence, frequently shifting the responsibility for bloodshed onto Saul or Israel collectively ([29:58]-[32:13]).
  • For example, David does not behead Goliath on screen; the violence is moved off-camera or rendered more peacefully ([29:58]).
  • David’s military campaigns, per Scripture, are reframed as moments of mercy rather than judgment ([31:13]).
• Scott’s rating: 4.5 out of 5 for biblical accuracy, knocked down a notch for these "whitewashing" moments ([29:01]-[29:58]).
• Caleb gives it a 5 out of 5 for hitting all the “major pieces and parts” of the story, “just with some creative color" ([27:50]-[28:54]).

2. Central Theological Messages

• Trusting God vs. Trusting Self:
  • The film’s main plot is whether the Israelites (and David) trust in God’s promise and providence or in human strength ([21:44]-[22:00]).
  • Strong theme: when God makes a promise (e.g., deliverance from the Philistines), trusting him brings victory ([34:24], [36:12]).

Notable Quote

“If God is with Israel, specifically, Israel is not alone and nothing can stand against them if God is with them… If God is true to his promises, none of that’s going to matter.”
— Scott Keith ([34:24])

• God’s Surprising Choice & Sovereignty:

  • The unexpectedness of David’s selection is a core motif. God works against people’s preferences—including Jesse’s ([38:05], [41:22]).
  • David as “Christ-figure”—the unlikely, unexpected deliverer point repeatedly emphasized ([38:05]).

• Human Agency vs. Divine Choice:

  • The film’s theology lands between trust in God’s providence and promoting the individual’s choice to follow God (reflecting typical “American theology”) ([34:24], [40:30]).
  • The musical numbers, in particular, stress individual choice and taking action “for God"—often at odds with the narrative of God’s initiative ([40:30]-[42:08]).
  • The film’s opening presents David being anointed against his own protest and everyone else’s expectations—a subtle pointer to the Lutheran theme of the bondage of the will ([40:58], [43:15]).

Notable Quote

“It’s the thing where I wish they could just let the Bible stories speak for themselves. That’s what the scripture does. It’s when all of a sudden there was somebody with a theology in the room who said, ‘We have to convey this theological…They can choose to be David too.’”
— Caleb Keith ([42:08]-[42:10])

3. Missed Theological Opportunities/Cautions

• The film at times succumbs to the standard “Sunday school moralism,” emphasizing the power of choice and the certainty of success for those who “choose God” ([40:58], [44:48]).
• This is critiqued as unfaithful to the biblical David, who is often a passive, even reluctant, recipient of God’s choice. The Psalms themselves show David’s deep recognition that his success is from God alone ([44:48]-[45:26]).
• The hosts are wary of children learning “if they just have faith, they’ll never be defeated”—an incomplete and potentially damaging lesson ([36:54]).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment Topic | Timestamps | |--------------------------------------|---------------------| | Why review this movie? | 02:37–05:16 | | Movie vs. “preachy” kids’ content | 05:16–09:02 | | Animation/singing/child response | 10:49–14:50 | | Characters and creative license | 16:48–19:56 | | Family/parental impact | 20:32–25:17 | | Bible story accuracy review | 27:12–33:35 | | Violence/moral “whitewashing” | 29:58–33:38 | | Theology: Trust, faith, sovereignty | 34:24–38:05 | | God’s choice vs. moral decision | 40:30–42:10 | | Critique: “Preachy” vs. storytelling| 46:53–48:06 |

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On the film’s cautious approach to sensitive content:

  “They did do a lot of the off putting of the violence off of David.”
  — Scott Keith ([30:52])

• On modern movie messaging:

  “All you have to do is just not insert force in certain issues. Then it’s good…like all movies right now.”
  — Caleb Keith ([46:41])

• On letting the Bible story stand:

  “If you would have just let the Bible story not compete with itself, you would have ended up in a better place.”
  — Caleb Keith ([46:18])

• On the problem of over-moralizing:

  “It’s not that it’s Christian. That’s cringy. It’s that they can’t stop preaching. Now all movies are like that now.”
  — Caleb Keith ([47:26])

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Bottom Line: Should You See David?

• The Keiths both recommend it for families who want to enjoy a safe, visually engaging, theologically decent Bible-story movie, especially compared to most modern children’s fare ([47:03], [46:40]).
• While not flawless and occasionally succumbing to the genre’s didactic impulses, David stands out for respectfully handling the biblical narrative and avoiding the heavy ideological hand present in much of today’s mainstream kids’ entertainment.

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In Summary

David (Angel Studios 2025) is an ambitious, visually appealing retelling of Scripture that mostly avoids the pitfalls of past faith-based movies, though it steers toward moralizing in musical moments. Its greatest achievement, per the hosts, is being an option for Christian families who want entertainment that doesn’t undermine their faith or values—an outcome increasingly rare in animated film.

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“If a million kids saw this, it’d be a good thing.”
— Scott Keith ([27:09])

Transcript

[Scott Keith]

Foreign.

[Caleb Keith]

Welcome to the Thinking Fellows Podcast. My name is Caleb Keith and today I am joined just by my father, Scott Keith. And we're doing a movie review which I don't know if this is new for the Thinking fellas. I feel like we have reviewed a movie or two in the past. It's been, we're getting close to 10 years and so we've done a lot of different experimentation over the years, but I don't think we've reviewed a movie in theaters before, so I honestly don't remember. So we're trying that today. We would have had extra hosts with us, but.

[Scott Keith]

And we tried, we tried to get everybody the hustle, like to last minute go do something cool.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, we did. And it was a little too last minute, I think, for. To make it work for most people. They had too many plans and so people in their busy lives. So just. We saw this movie with my children and that movie was David, which is a new children's movie. It's a quote, faith based movie. Obviously it's the story of the, the anointing and what would you say, like establishment of King David.

[Scott Keith]

Pretty much from the anointing of David by Samuel until the death of Saul. Sure.

[Caleb Keith]

And so, yeah, so it's from, from the story of first and second Samuel. And yeah, so we're going to review that. I do want to, I want to do a bit of an intro. Why are we reviewing a movie? There's been other faith based movies in the last 10 years and we have skipped them and we have not reviewed them. So why are we reviewing a movie? Is the first question. And then I want to break the show into two parts. First, I want to just deal with it as a movie, just as a.

[Scott Keith]

Movie, just as like a Christian, not.

[Caleb Keith]

As a Christian movie, not as a. I don't want to touch on the theology at all. For the first part, I just want to ask the question, is it a good movie? And see if we can answer that question. And then for the second half, I want to talk about the theology, the faith based problem or, or good thing or whatever that may be and close it out. Sound good? Yeah. Great. Okay. So from your perspective, why did we review a movie?

[Scott Keith]

Oh, I suggested reviewing this movie because I saw a Christian commentator on YouTube review an early showing of it. And his take on it was. I'm trying to summarize here that basically that for a long time Disney movies sort of protected the values of, I guess you'd say middle Christian America. And that over the last. I don't know how long would you. Decade, maybe even two decades that they're protecting other values more. I almost said socialist, but I guess I'll just say progressive sort of values. And that he was really looking forward to this coming out to see if it would do that, you know, kind of take that role that Disney used to take. And he was very much focused on the quality of it as a movie as compared to like a Disney animated feature. And I thought it'd be interesting to do that. Now when I suggested it, I was mostly thinking about the theology, like as long as it was entertaining enough and good enough, I kind of think that it's going to get some traction with people that are just overly sick of being preached to by bad Disney progressivism. But I do think after seeing it, I think they made a real attempt to make it like Disney animated, Pixar animated quality. Ish. And even with the singing and everything, they tried to make it production level that. So I think it's worth reviewing just as a movie movie too at this point.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, from my perspective, it's a similar problem, which is we do a lot on the thinking fellows with family stuff. I think obviously it's not every single episode, but we certainly go through waves of talking about catechesis. I mean, your book is obviously about parenting and the new book's about family. And so family is a big aspect of that. We get asked a lot of questions about how one can properly raise children or what to do when you have a hard situation or don't know how to make decisions about it. And so I think for this, for me, the reason to do this is answering the question is like, I used to love going to the movies. We obviously went to the movies a lot. I think a lot of people feel that way, whether they went to the movies or just, you know, bought the movie.

[Scott Keith]

When you. It sucks to feel like you can't.

[Caleb Keith]

And it sucks to feel like you can't. And a lot of parents too. You know, children probably watch more TV and movies than they've ever watched in one sense because of streaming, the lack of commercials, iPads. It's the number one way that you can sort of get through a car trip or I mean, in worst case scenarios, dinner at a restaurant. And it starts young. But more and more parents maybe are realizing that that's bad, but also realizing that you can't just let them have access to whatever streaming services you want if you aren't okay with it. There are going to be moral messages in these or commentary on The West United States that is maybe subtle, maybe not, about things like love and acceptance and diversity. And you can make a huge list. And there might be positive ways to teach those things to kids and negative ways, but you're basically letting film studios decide how those values are shaped, not just as like a catechetical issue, but how their imagination for something like the category of love is shaped. And that's the thing that movies, children's stories, they shape your imagination when you think of particular things. And if you see something on screen, a young child might not be able to communicate, oh, that was teaching me that homosexuality is the same type of love that my parents have. They might not be able to communicate that with you. But now their imagination includes pictures. And if they like a movie a lot, like, if they rewatch a movie like attachment to something, where scenes or depictions of improper definitions or realities of that all associated as good, which I think is the main thing. Like, you don't see a lot of Disney movies just, you know, teaching about homosexuality, for instance, as like the main moral. But there's passive, often references to that. And it's gotten more and more bold. Some of the first examples were like off in the fuzzy distance of a wedding, you could see a male. Male couple or something like that. Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

Or there was one that they didn't actually run it the same way in like Saudi Arabia and countries like that.

[Caleb Keith]

And they do that all the time.

[Scott Keith]

It was like a brief kiss between two women as they came in the door.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, I don't stuff like that. Or like phrases that they can edit out for certain countries, like my mom's, for instance, that, you know. And again, it'll always start with a background character, but as time goes on, that moves more and more to the front of things. And so parents, and they just. Sometimes they want to go see a movie with their kids or they want to turn on the tv. And I think a movie like this is trying to position itself as a solution to that.

[Scott Keith]

Kind of obviously. Right. That's one of the, like, stated goals of Angel Studios, isn't it? To.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, No, I think the success of that will depend on. Can they do stories that aren't Bible stories?

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, you said that last night. And that hadn't occurred to me as much. When you were a kid, the big one like this, I think it was.

[Caleb Keith]

By a major studio, that's DreamWorks. So, yeah, it was big.

[Scott Keith]

And I remember at the time thinking, yeah, it's pretty good. You know, like, as a movie, I thought it was actually really Good as a Bible story. I remember thinking it was. It was pretty good as a movie.

[Caleb Keith]

It's excellent. It's not. It's not for playing in Sunday school. That's. It's not bad, but it's not. It's not for playing in Sunday school. That's not the purpose.

[Scott Keith]

And I'd even say with this one, like, you have to be tolerant. It's kind of like watching the chosen. You have to be tolerant of some creative license that you know is not directly spelled out in scriptures. And because they're writing a story that's a feature length movie, they're not just reading verses out of the Bible. But if you can be tolerant of that, I mean, I. You had the kid, it was funny. You had the kids rate it 1 through 5 on the drive home last night before one of them got carsick. But I. And you were brutal about it, like forcing a number on all the different categories from them. And it was kind of funny to. Especially your oldest daughter that's really struggling to pin it down, you know. And I think in the movie we told her, you know, because she loves Moana, at least when she was little.

[Caleb Keith]

That was her favorite movie for sure. She still says that. I can't even remember the last time we watched it. But that's at least what she.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah.

[Caleb Keith]

Oh, okay.

[Scott Keith]

But you took her to see Moana too, and it was pretty much garbage. And she originally, just because it was Moana was like, oh, it was good. But the more. Actually the more she's thought about it, the more she said, now that movie is.

[Caleb Keith]

She doesn't like that one.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah. So that was sort of like the, hey, is it at least as good as Moana too? Maybe get it compared to Moana, the original. And it was fun listening to her try to suss that out. She doesn't gives fives.

[Caleb Keith]

She doesn't give five. So I. I don't think she gives.

[Scott Keith]

Fives in all life.

[Caleb Keith]

I felt like her score was kind of there, but I got her while we were. While you were pumping gas at the gas station. She said, quote, better than Milana 2 on par with Bad Guys 2, which is a Dreamworks film. So that was. That was her as far as I could get her to come compare those things. Yeah. So as a movie, I thought it was pretty good there. It's a. It's a particular type of kids movie. So it's singing and so think Frozen. Not all Pixar or Disney movies are. Some of them certainly have been. Frozen is. Is very Singy. Sure. They're. Yeah, those are. Those are singing. This is, I would say singing on par with Frozen in the sense.

[Scott Keith]

It's very singing in.

[Caleb Keith]

In the sense that like it's. It's exceptionally singing.

[Scott Keith]

When I took Esther to the bathroom, like in the middle of the movie, she looked at me and she goes, it's a good movie. The singing's a bit much.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, it's very singing. Now I looked, there's. When the movie officially comes out, there's gonna be two versions. There's a sing along where like in the movie theater there will be text on the screen and like.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, I didn't think they were that. I guess one of the criticisms.

[Caleb Keith]

You and I don't like praise music. So this is like saying that they don't seem like you'd sing along to.

[Scott Keith]

Them is I felt it rather difficult to sing like to sing along to even if you wanted to.

[Caleb Keith]

But you find it difficult to sing contemporary music at churches like that. And one of our complaints is that there's no notes the music.

[Scott Keith]

I find it very hard to sing along.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. To contemporary music. And this was a shot at contemporary Christian music with inclusions of lines from the psalms in order to. I mean that part I liked. It was order to creatively depict it as like, these are the songs. David wrote the psalms. And then they heard more of those.

[Scott Keith]

Than I did my hearing aids in. I turned my hearing aids down cause we were in a movie theater.

[Caleb Keith]

But there were one liners from the psalms throughout every one of the songs.

[Scott Keith]

I obviously heard it in the last song because it was like all the psalm.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, they all had it and then they would spin off into that. But.

[Scott Keith]

So in fact, as a hearing impaired individual, one of the things I would say is there were many lines in the movie that I had a hard time hearing just from an enunciation standpoint.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. Maybe a little fine tuning on the hearing aids would have been necessary. You can work with your doctor for movie theater mode. So I would keep that in mind when rating it. I think it's hard to rate a singing movie the same as a non singing movie just because the movie apart from the singing could be amazing and then the singing can knock it down a little bit. But it just depends. I thought the. The vocal performance was great. Not my favorite kind of music. And again, without within this front half. Avoiding getting too theological at first, the theology of the movie was primarily placed in the music like the. The more. Well, the moral message was a lot stronger in the music. Again because they're repeating choruses and the stanzas all had sort of a moral point to them. And so I would say if you want to see this for entertainment value, the music is going to be the hard part. For a non Christian or somebody who doesn't like preachy movies, that's going to be the hardest part because the moral lesson when they're speaking is less in your. It's just part of the story in the music. It gives you this three minute opportunity to preach to the audience. And that definitely happens. You brought up Prince of Egypt. That also has a decent amount of music.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, but I don't remember it being overly biblical.

[Caleb Keith]

It's not preachy. And now that's not a faith based movie. In the same way they're not trying.

[Scott Keith]

To convey classic tale.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, that's Moses as a classic tale. Do I want David as a classic tale instead of as a Bible store as a scripture story? I don't know.

[Scott Keith]

All you're gonna get is Dave and Goliath then.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Scott Keith]

But in fact they, at the end of the movie you can like QR code this and get a special to do the. They're doing a, like an animated series called Young David. That one's gonna be funny to me because they're gonna have to go way extra biblical with that. Like what stories are they gonna have? They're not doing like young King David, they're doing like young shepherd boy David. And so that's going to be all moral just like. And it's just going to be moralism. I think I would get kids TV.

[Caleb Keith]

Shows either are just goofy, think spongebob. There's no lesson. It's just like goofy. Or they are like lesseny if that makes sense. But you're lessening. Fight for justice. Fight for the weak. Stand up for what is right. Superheroes are morally. I hate to break it to you, but I think entertainment wise, totally I was entertained. The kids were entertained. The animation was not off putting at all and the voice acting was fine. Line delivery was sometimes a little on the nose. But the movie warmed up.

[Scott Keith]

I agree with that. It got better with time.

[Caleb Keith]

It got better with time. Their depiction of relationships, character building even when they went to like non vocal parts and they just started showing like time passing. Like David's relationship with Jonathan I thought was one of my favorite parts of the movie depicted extremely well.

[Scott Keith]

So a big part of the movie is David's relationship with his ima, his mother, which you know, I find that in scripture. But that's Fine. Like I said, they take some creative license there. And now I've been noticing this. I've been reading a lot of novels lately, and I'm not, you know, me, like, you were the literature guy in college way more than I.

[Caleb Keith]

Okay.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm kind of dense with these kind of things. If it's not, like, really didactic. I don't often just pick up on. Look at that. But as I've been reading these novels, I've noticed that most novels have a character that's specifically designated to kind of be the narrator, even there, even though they're a character in there.

[Caleb Keith]

And I think that's what his mom was.

[Scott Keith]

That's what his mom was. His mom is the narrator. Who's the character?

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, I initially kind of. I thought it an interesting choice. That was their way of getting.

[Scott Keith]

Because it could have been Jesse.

[Caleb Keith]

Well, so it was their way of getting a main female character into the story, I think, because I thought. What. Yeah. Later on in his life, but not for this part of the story. I mean, there's a lot of female characters in David's life. But I thought it was an interesting choice because if I felt like if you were going to depict one of his parents, you'd pick the one whose name echoes through scripture over and over again.

[Scott Keith]

Told me to.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, like his dad's name.

[Scott Keith]

That's kind of my point. And Jesse is actually in this kind of a little bit of a boob, and he. He doesn't get it until, what, the last two minutes of the movie.

[Caleb Keith]

So I think that's interesting because you have to spoil story that's thousands of years old. Okay. I guess that's. Oh, I guess that's true. But I just, you know, dads are not often depicted in cinema. Well, there's. When they are. Yeah. And so that wasn't like a win there, like. And people. People respond well to that. For instance. That is. That is one of the huge things with families loving Bluey is you have, for the first time in anybody can remember, a dad depicted extraordinary exceptionally well. And so, yeah, of course he's a dog, but I mean, still, you have a good dad is.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, he's a good dad. I love me some blue.

[Caleb Keith]

And they depict a lot of good dads in that show, too. They go out of their way to.

[Scott Keith]

Like, dads go camping, dads are on vacation, dads are playing together. Dads are playing together.

[Caleb Keith]

So it's, you know, it's kind of disappointing that I don't. That they didn't pick up on that. But again, they needed a female character for this side of the story. They picked his mom. I think that's. It's fine. It's okay. What have you learned?

[Scott Keith]

That she's a narrator. I've learned that they put narrators in these things and. Yeah, she was. She was. Yeah.

[Caleb Keith]

She was a narrator for sure. And. But overall, would you need to. I'd take kids to go see it again?

[Scott Keith]

Oh, I think, I think you probably should. Like. Yeah. If you're. Especially if it's even quasi important to you to have experiences like this with your kids, this is a good one to have. You're not going to, you're not going to come out of it going, oh, give me a break. Not again. No way. Even with the whole, like, Jesse's not, you know, he's not out there as a particularly great example of a faithful father, which he obviously was. Right. Faithful father. And it's the Ema. The mom who is. It's subtle, you know, it's just. There's, it's subtle in that. There's just like a whole. There's two. There's two people sort of types of people given to you in this movie. There's the people who are with David who trust that the Lord will make it happen and there's the people who are trying to trust themselves and they get worried and doubtful. Right. And they just sort of randomly pick who. One of his brothers is one and one of his brothers is the other. His dad for most of the movie is one and his mom is the other one and they just sort of. It's almost like a roll of the dice in the thing who you're going to get.

[Caleb Keith]

I don't think there's a lot.

[Scott Keith]

From a lot of logic to it. Yeah.

[Caleb Keith]

Either dictating that. But you're right. The movie is main plot is depicting. Do the people of Israel trust in the God of Israel to be for them or do they not? And David is the.

[Scott Keith]

And the Israel is divided on that.

[Caleb Keith]

Yep.

[Scott Keith]

There's some who do, there's some who don't.

[Caleb Keith]

And I thought it did a good job of depicting that as an. As sort of a national issue too where it's like Saul's doing this by nature of honestly being a king. Like I have to go to battle, I have to make these decisions when I make these decisions.

[Scott Keith]

I thought they did just even non. Theologically. They did a good job of telling you the story that Saul was chosen by God to be the king of Israel and They even mentioned that Israel wanted a king and God didn't want them and that God didn't want them to have one.

[Caleb Keith]

That actually made it into the story.

[Scott Keith]

Which I thought made it into the story. That blew me away that. That made it into the story and that Saul was the one that was chosen by God to do that. But that Saul didn't get his place as a placeholder and that the real king would be the line from whom the Messiah would come. Right. They didn't do. We're getting a little theological. They didn't do as much with that as I had hoped they would. That. That is. That's why David at the end of the day and not Saul. But that there were times when Saul. And there's allusions to it. Times when Saul was unfaithful. And now Samuel has anointed David. Saul in the story. Put any. In real life to somebody puts a lot of emphasis on this being Samuel's fault. But.

[Caleb Keith]

The Samuel character, I actually thought they would include him a little more to be the narrator or come preach at various times. I mean, Samuel does not just disappear in the. The books that he wrote. And so you have that. I thought it was interesting sort of the lack of prophets after the beginning, but it was fine. I mean, I guess the problem with it is that David ends up sort of doing the job of a prophet throughout this movie, not the job of a king.

[Scott Keith]

And. No, he's not. Let me know when we're getting theological. That's one of the things that they. The core to this whole movie is sort of based on. I mean, really neither at the beginning and through most of it, neither David nor Saul trusting that God's choice for David is the right choice.

[Caleb Keith]

Sure, sure. Yeah. No. David is an example of that God in general is to be trusted as for them. But that this particular choice he's not really seeing.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah. David distrusts his choice through. And it's not totally inaccurate.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. So. Yeah. So I think the consensus is it's good. I maybe Give it a 4 out of 5 as far as just kids movies go. Especially like today.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah. Because there are still some excellent kids.

[Caleb Keith]

Movies that come out that are like, better than this. Just.

[Scott Keith]

Well, there are some, like, even recent past Disney movies that are just more entertaining, I think.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. Yeah. Not. I. I mean, I hate to be. But not everything's been garbage, so.

[Scott Keith]

No. And there. There's not a. There wasn't a point in this movie where I felt like a big tug at my heartstrings.

[Caleb Keith]

Oh, there Were. I would say there was, like, twice for me, but it was just like, the Jonathan and David parts. I actually just liked those a lot.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, that was great. But there wasn't. Like, in most of the good Disney movies, there's this crux point, like, and it's usually like a father point. I was thinking, Mulan, the greatest gift in honor is having you as a daughter. Right. Good luck not getting choked up, you know, when you see that there wasn't that kind of moment. I think they tried to create some of those between David and Ema, but.

[Caleb Keith]

The stakes aren't high when you know it's going to happen in some ways. Like, you. Yeah, but, you know, like, David can't fail the mission.

[Scott Keith]

Well, you know, Mulan's not going to fail. They wouldn't make the movie.

[Caleb Keith]

It's kind of different, though, when you know the ending. Like, you know the ending ending. Like, the first time you watch Mulan, you might know she's going to win, but you know how it's going to end. No, you knew that this movie was going to end with.

[Scott Keith]

It's funny because I know that the kids knew that, but they didn't know. I mean, because I quizzed them on the way down. I'm not trying to out you here. But they didn't know how it was going to end either.

[Caleb Keith]

No, probably not. No, they knew, like, that he would defeat Goliath, but that's about it. Yeah, they didn't know the finer details.

[Scott Keith]

Kind of proud of them for spending as little time on Goliath as they did.

[Caleb Keith]

Yep. Thought so, too. And that. That was. Yeah, I thought it was good. It was not just like another David and Goliath short film flick. I mean, so. Nope. All right, well, pretty good. Go see it. If you can stream it. If you miss it, like, it's pretty good.

[Scott Keith]

They're trying to get a million kids to go see this. I don't think that's a bad goal.

[Caleb Keith]

I don't think it's a bad goal either.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, I think if a million kids saw this, it'd be a good thing.

[Caleb Keith]

Okay, theology time. So why don't we break the theology into two parts? Story accuracy and just. And then, like, theological implications or good things, Bad things.

[Scott Keith]

What's story accuracy? Like, if you're giving it a Grammy.

[Caleb Keith]

What would you give it as far as just, like, biblical story accuracy?

[Scott Keith]

Again, if. Re. 5 out of what? Out of 0?

[Caleb Keith]

Like, no, no, no. Like, out of 5 out of 10.

[Scott Keith]

Oh. I mean, others can give her Percentage, so. But I don't know. Out of five, since you did everything else on five.

[Caleb Keith]

I give it. I give it a five, honestly.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, really?

[Caleb Keith]

I thought that, like, because it was so easy to see where, like, they're filling in, it was clear to me that, like, just the following. The biblical story of the anointing to his king was pretty good. Like, you got. You got Philistines and Amalekites. You got, like, what Saul failed to do.

[Scott Keith]

Implied.

[Caleb Keith]

No, Samuel, you. Maybe you're hearing.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, Samuel did say it literally said.

[Caleb Keith]

Out loud exactly what he failed to do and then explained what he continued to do in the midst of that failure. You had. I mean, there were. That's fine. But you had everything from, like, the pursuit of David hiding in the temple, that he caused priests to be killed by hiding in the tabernacle amongst tabernacles. Like, there were. I actually think if you were to, like, pluck out the big pieces, parts of the story of David.

[Scott Keith]

Oh, yeah, I agree with that.

[Caleb Keith]

I'd give it just a solid across the board. Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

What would I give it? I would say if I were to take out. This is. This is hard for me and I'll tell you why. The final scene, I liked a lot.

[Caleb Keith]

Okay.

[Scott Keith]

But I have to take that out if I'm going to give it a 5 on biblical accuracy. Does that make sense?

[Caleb Keith]

Oh, because. Okay.

[Scott Keith]

I don't want to spoil it.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

Sure enough, the final scene I thought was great, actually. It did what I really wanted them to do in the whole movie, and it did it visually. Wanted them to tie David to Christ in the whole movie. They never did it expressly, but they did it visually in the final scene. But I'd have to kind of. If on a. We're just doing biblical accuracy, that gets a. It gets a percentage point knocked down. So four and a half.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. It also turned. Okay. I guess this would be my knockdown to it, for it turned some of David's violent pursuits into peaceful pursuits that then his followers, without his command, then fulfill the violence aspect. So at the killing of Goliath, they do not show at all the depiction of David decapitating Goliath. And then they sort of depict it in a picture off to the side eventually, that he is in a tapestry, that he's doing it. But then Israel finishes the job and none of this. And it actually almost implies that Saul goes and takes Goliath's head. Saul holding his helmet at the end. Which, again, so it was like to off put the violence off of David. And then at the end there, they.

[Scott Keith]

Did do a lot of that. They did do a lot of the off putting of the violence off of David.

[Caleb Keith]

And then behind there, so then you have the scene that you're talking about, which in the Bible is David actually marching an army on the Amalekites, not peacefully walking into their camp and telling people to just leave. So telling people to.

[Scott Keith]

This is the one we're gonna get to. To choose for God.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, to choose for. If you just chose for God instead in this, he's angered by destruction and then goes and kills an entire camp of people. So that is that. And that's typical.

[Scott Keith]

And they imply that that's gonna happen.

[Caleb Keith]

No, at the end they show by.

[Scott Keith]

The army coming in, it's just not. David's not leading the army.

[Caleb Keith]

No. David never gives the command to kill in this movie. And one of the things that's funny about that because they point out that Saul's big failure is a failure to kill an entire tribe of people to.

[Scott Keith]

Fulfill God's command as they enter.

[Caleb Keith]

As they take that David is in a lot of ways chosen by God to eliminate the enemies of Israel in a way that Saul did not. And Saul would make treaties and agreements with people that God told him to destroy and he didn't and that he.

[Scott Keith]

Started acting like other kings.

[Caleb Keith]

Yes. And so David's selection in a lot of ways is for his violence. And so a shepherd literally looking after his flock. And they actually start this at the beginning to kill.

[Scott Keith]

I need to know our spoiler level here. I'm willing to spoil.

[Caleb Keith]

This is. You're now in spoiler territory because we're talking about theology and we're going to have to spoil.

[Scott Keith]

Okay, so he fails to, as a shepherd, kill a predator.

[Caleb Keith]

Yes. He defends his flock from a lion without killing it. And they intentionally then show him sparing the life of the lion. Now again, actually actively saving. Yeah, actively saving the lion. And so David's. I mean, David as a shepherd is to defend his flock.

[Scott Keith]

And well, David as a shepherd is gonna know that even if he saves that lion in the most lion's gonna come back and kill another sheep.

[Caleb Keith]

God literally chooses him because it's for that message. For that message in a lot of ways, which is Saul allows the lion to go back to its den and then come and attack his sheep over and over again. And God wants those people gone. That's the story of 1st and 2nd kings and 1 and 2 Samuel in a lot of ways. And so whitewashing that is interesting. I think the biggest theological issue. Well, no, not the biggest theological issue.

[Scott Keith]

But it's the biggest biblical accuracy.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, it's the biggest biblical accuracy issue. That's right.

[Scott Keith]

So which is kind of my problem with the last scene. Yes, I like the picture.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

But then biblical accuracy, it's lacking.

[Caleb Keith]

So, okay. Theological message or the theology or lesson being taught. Yeah, I think it was really split on this, which is typical for. Let's just call it American theology in general, which was you had God's choice and God's providence and protection for his people as like a central thing, but then the individual's choice to follow God and to make their correct decision.

[Scott Keith]

I would say that. I agree with that. I would say it slightly differently. The. Theologically, the most pleased I was at the very beginning was at the battle with Goliath when David kept saying, I'm not alone. If God is with me, who can be against me? And trying to convince everybody else of that. Now the other person he doesn't have to convince is Jonathan, which is kind of cool. So that to me is like the num. If you. If I were going to say, the most overt theological message in that is that if God is with Israel, specifically, Israel is not alone and that there is. That nothing can stand against them if God is with them. Not a bigger army, not a bigger soldier, not a bigger. Not a scarier kind of demon like people. If God is actually with. If God is true to his promises, none of that's going to matter.

[Caleb Keith]

And part of this from the Bible too, by the way, from the scripture, I think that can get missed in this provides an opportunity for teaching, is that it's not a generic God is just with you because you're the Israelites. It's actually God made a promise to deliver them from the Philistines.

[Scott Keith]

God is true to his promise.

[Caleb Keith]

That's a specific and particular promise. So if you actually have this promise from God that he's going to deliver you from the hands of the Philistines and the Amalekites and these other places in this land that God has given to you, then he will do that. And so being like making treaties with them because you don't trust that God is going to do that is the problem.

[Scott Keith]

Or refusing to fight their champion because he's too big, or looking at the size of their army and thinking there's no way you could overcome it. Right, Jonathan. Jonathan's lying in that at the final battle.

[Caleb Keith]

I think the danger is that like. Is like, that God will never allow Those who believe in him to be defeated. The story of Israel, even the story of David's life is not that case. Apart from a particular promise of deliverance. In fact, God sometimes sends the conquerors to, to take Israel and to divide it. So that's, I mean that's very much the story of Israel right before the time of Christ.

[Scott Keith]

Right.

[Caleb Keith]

Is them being handed over and over and over again to new empires. And so it is not just if you have faith, no enemies can defeat you. And I do find that in children's stories I'm very sensitive to. And this is the part where I can kind of get uncomfortable with these kind of movies, like teaching my kids that if they just believe in God, like they'll never, they'll never be defeated by an enemy. Yeah, so, so that, that's one of the, that's one of the things where I think you have to be careful. But I can't remember a Bible story depicted on film where that's never been like at least part of this.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, I thought that the flip side there, you know, you do see another theme in there too. And it's sort of a bondage of the will esque theme. I mean, David is a very bondageable character in the scriptures. People don't love that.

[Caleb Keith]

And they, they, they can't help but depict that part in this movie as well. So if you see it, you see it like if you know, you know, kind of situation.

[Scott Keith]

And he's also a Christ figure in that especially. He's the unexpected choice. And there is a line in the movie that says that it's about 2/3 of the way through David's having a really hard time. He's found in the desert. Anyway, at one point one of the characters says, this is God's deliverance. And this old goofy character says God's deliverance didn't look like what I expected it to look like. Well, that's a very biblical theme. That's very Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David. That's just a very Christ, that's a very biblical theme. It's a very christological theme. And they caught it in there. They caught the bondage of the will. God is working against everybody's will in this.

[Caleb Keith]

I thought one of the best aspects of that was at the final beginning battle against the Philistines. Jonathan has to ride, ride forward to.

[Scott Keith]

That was the one like tingly moment.

[Caleb Keith]

For me to meet sort of, you know, to the council of the Philistines and basically just says to them, if we win God.

[Scott Keith]

Well, they're going to lose. The Israelites are going to lose.

[Caleb Keith]

And Jonathan says, if we win, it is sure promise that God has delivered us from you. And if you win and you kill my father, all you will have done is fulfill God's plan to put David on the throne. And Jonathan is.

[Scott Keith]

Jonathan is the rock in this movie.

[Caleb Keith]

Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, he is kind of the rock of David's life in this. In the.

[Scott Keith]

And in the movie.

[Caleb Keith]

He is.

[Scott Keith]

He's. He is the rock.

[Caleb Keith]

No, depicting like a friendship like that. Very good. Again, best part of. The best part of, like, the movie, I think, is David and Jonathan. So that's cool. The other thing is because it's David and he's running away from Saul and God delivers him into his hand and there's all these battles everything is pushing towards. God has made a choice and it will be fulfilled. God has made a choice and it will be fulfilled. God has made a promise and it will be fulfilled. And so that's where you also get this, you know, bond of the will, other aspects that fight against all this. My personal choice kind of thing. Until the music, which is when they can sort of insert that. It's like.

[Scott Keith]

And David's speeches to the.

[Caleb Keith]

And David's speeches are frequently, I would say, with the exception of Goliath, with the exception of the Goliath aspect, are about choosing to follow God. And it doesn't match up with the story they're presenting. It is just a theological insertion. And that is where almost every sort of Sunday school movie I've ever watched falls shortly.

[Scott Keith]

I mean, the movie starts after the protecting the sheep scene with David stumbling into his house. And Samuel's there. And Samuel just looks at him. That's him. Anoints him. While David is going, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not me, not me, not me, not me. And in fact, everybody goes. Because now somebody's got to be a shepherd. Everybody goes the whole way.

[Caleb Keith]

No, we want him to keep being the shepherd. Nobody wants to go be the shepherd. For the family. Yeah. In this case, God chooses against everybody else's choice. You know, Jesse probably would have seen his oldest son get the promise all of the. Yeah, the sons probably would have, for the most part, preferred to be anointed king. God chooses against everybody's choice in the case. So it's, you know, they're fighting that. It's the thing where I wish they could just let the Bible stories speak for themselves. That's what the scripture does. It's when all of a sudden there was somebody with a theology in the room who said, we have to convey this theological.

[Scott Keith]

They can choose to be David too.

[Caleb Keith]

Yes. And you can't. And that's. I just wish you could just let the story sit.

[Scott Keith]

Well, the theology of the people writing that part of the story falls into the same trap that Saul and even David are falling into in the movie. Right. That this is David's story. Sure.

[Caleb Keith]

Yep. Yeah. Which is funny because David's final message is that it's not. It's God's. And so again, it is fighting. It's fighting both messages.

[Scott Keith]

Really good scene when David is coming into Jerusalem after defeating Goliath and all the people are like, it's David, it's David, it's David. And David keeps going, no, no, it's not me, it's God, it's not me, it's God, it's not me, it's God. And then the one lady goes, look, David even says, it's not him, it's God. Look how great David is. Like, it's like there is an aspect of that where you can't win that scenario. People's theology of glory is going to take over. They actually depicted that with characters in the movie in that instance, but then kind of slipped back into it time and time again.

[Caleb Keith]

There is something just in that choice theology today where you make the choice, but you credit God with it. Right. So there's a. It's. And it can make that conversation in person about the bondage of the will, choice of salvation very hard because they'll say, well, I did the choosing, but that was God. That was a God thing, but it was me. It's a push and pull. And you kind of just got to say, it's like at some point you got to let go and give the agency to God and the power to God and say that of course there are emotions, there's knowledge, there's action even that you are a part of, have to take, but that God is actually the power, the motivation. And I think that nobody understands what will means, like this sub power underneath you that is driving all your decisions. So this is where with the bondage of the will is very hard to communicate. If you. If you can't say, like, well, all my decisions are sinful, even my good ones. That's when people start getting really confused. And why I think some of that language from the early Reformation and some of the early disputations is so helpful is because when you realize that even your best choices Ones that should be praised, like ones that you get an attaboy for, pat on the back, are sinful. You realize that there's nothing you can do to empower a righteousness.

[Scott Keith]

The funny thing is, you read the Psalms. David understands that.

[Caleb Keith]

Sure. Yeah. And that's the hardest part for people to swallow because it just doesn't make sense. And I'll even hear that from people today. Lutheran study, that would be like, there's a part of that that's true. But if you tell people all their good deeds are sin, they're not motivated to do good deeds anymore.

[Scott Keith]

And so you can't even like the, you know, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. He leadeth me besides the waters. He maketh me to lay down in green pastures. The language is there in the Psalms that you would not of your own. The Lord is doing this to you.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

All these things to you. And I knew. I guess one of the things that's interesting is you knew going into the movie that would be there, that was going to be there.

[Caleb Keith]

How could it not be?

[Scott Keith]

How could it not? You kind of really hoped that it wasn't. But, you know, Lutheran stopped doing things like this a long time time ago. So. Yeah. When's the last time you saw a good Davey and Goliath TV show? But if you're just going to see a movie that's doing a good job telling a Bible story.

[Caleb Keith]

Every modern kids movie teaches free will anyways nowadays might as well be the story of David. And teaching the bound will in a kids movie would have to be more passive than lesseny. Right. Like it has to just be. That's my point about if it's just depicted as part of the story, you know.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah.

[Caleb Keith]

Like teaching. Teaching it is. Is not the point. I don't think it has to be like a direct catechesis every time, but sometimes if you would have just let the Bible story not compete with itself, you would have ended up in a better place. All right, Moko, go see the movie. It was fun.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, I'd totally go see it.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah, it was fun enough. The thing with kids movies nowadays is to be good. Like, as far as the moral stuff goes, all you have to do is just not insert force in certain issues. Then it's good.

[Scott Keith]

Well, it's kind of. It's like all movies right now. I would go watch a lot of movies right now if you didn't try to like pigeonhole into it, your political agenda in the mouth of the character. Like, it's not Even inferred. It's just like all of a sudden the character stops and gives you a, a diatribe about love is love or some garbage like that. And it's, give me a break, man. I knew that's what you were going after anyway. You didn't actually have to say no.

[Caleb Keith]

If they could just stop saying that.

[Scott Keith]

Yeah, could you just stop telling me so you don't let my imagination do any work.

[Caleb Keith]

You know what's funny is that is this is getting long now, but that is the critique of faith based movies. Could you just stop telling me? Could you just make the story entertainment? In the past, I would say that is the big, like why I cringe at so many faith based movies. Or there's like the face based hallmarky ones too and stuff. It's like, please just stop preaching it. Just depict it on screen. And all of a sudden that thing which universally most people were like, yeah, that's what makes them cringy. It's not that it's Christian. That's cringy. It's that they can't stop preaching now. All movies are like that now. It's like you go to a Marvel movie and it's preaching for two hours.

[Scott Keith]

It's just you kind of expect it at like a religious movie. Right. Maybe why you don't want to go to a religious movie, but you kind of expect it. Yeah, I don't expect it in like an Avengers.

[Caleb Keith]

And then it happens and you're like, oh.

[Scott Keith]

And then it happens and you go, what the. That was a big thing with Falcon and Winter Soldier TV shows. Everybody that even wanted that show. And it's all of a sudden you're getting lessons.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah.

[Scott Keith]

So like a Saturday morning cartoon after show.

[Caleb Keith]

Yeah. So this had. If they're going to preach at me, at least this was the story of David a little bit. So yeah, go enjoy it. Thank you for listening to this episode of the Thinking Fellows podcast. We hope that you subscribe. You can subscribe to the show in your favorite audio podcasting apps. That's where we've been doing this for almost 10 years. And then for the last year or so we've been posting these on video on YouTube. So if you'd like to subscribe on YouTube, if that's where you watch listen to podcasts, go ahead and subscribe there. We'll catch you next time. Bye.

[Scott Keith]

Sample. Sam.