Thinking Fellows Podcast: "Jordan Peterson Needs a Preacher"
Date: February 8, 2022
Length: ~45 minutes
Hosts: Scott Keith, Caleb Keith, Adam Francisco

Episode Overview

In this episode, the Thinking Fellows team (Scott, Caleb, and Adam) delve into Jordan Peterson’s recent comments about the Bible, Christianity, and truth, particularly those made on the Joe Rogan podcast. While the Fellows generally avoid pop culture "trend" discussions, Peterson’s massive influence on the cultural and religious conversation—especially through Rogan’s platform—prompts them to critique his approach to scripture, morality, and existential meaning. Along the way, they explore broader issues of biblical authority, neo-orthodoxy, and the perennial need for clear proclamation of the gospel.

Major Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Address Jordan Peterson Now? (03:36)

• The Fellows normally avoid topical pop culture, yet Peterson’s comments on the Rogan podcast are shaping public perception of Christianity and the Bible.
• “The sheer number of listeners that he has means that the topic becomes popular... You're probably going to run into, over the next couple weeks, several people paraphrasing, repeating what he said, who then want to also sound clever. Like this is going to become the popular narrative about the Bible for a month.” — Caleb (09:31)

2. Joe Rogan’s Platform and Influence (06:46)

• Rogan, as a non-specialist, is described as “a guy willing to have conversations with smart people” who shapes discourse simply by virtue of his audience size.
• His “ideological blinders” regarding Christianity and comments made off-the-cuff can misinform millions.

3. Who Is Jordan Peterson Now? (12:34)

• Recap of Peterson’s career: psychologist, professor, author of "12 Rules for Life," now seen as a major social commentator.
• Peterson’s personal life, health crises, and family’s move towards Christianity have made him less atheistic—“agnostic-ish, maybe even theist”—yet he still interprets Christianity and the Bible through a “Jungian psychology” lens.
• “I see a man who’s sort of on his own terms... inching ever so close or closer to trying to understand Christianity objectively, but he just can’t get past that Jungian psychology and all that other stuff he brings to the task.” — Adam (17:02)

4. Peterson’s View: The Bible is 'Beyond True' (20:45)

• Peterson posits that the Bible is “beyond truth,” serving as the foundational source for meaning, language, and morality in the West—whether or not its historical claims are factually accurate.
• The fellows compare this to 20th-century neo-orthodox theology, which separated biblical “meaning” from historicity.
• Scott strongly rejects this approach:
  “I’m kind of betting everything on the resurrection, on my resurrection. And so I’d like to know that the first one actually happened... Not just that the idea... provides meaning.” (25:00)

5. Critically Evaluating the 'Meaning over Truth' Approach (24:43)

• Peterson’s argument is logically consistent but deductive and rationalistic, ignoring whether the Bible is factually reliable and whether its central events truly happened.
• Scott warns: “What he doesn’t realize is that the move... is exactly what’s eroded all confidence in the Bible. When [theologians] started to say it doesn’t matter if it actually happened or not, it’s meaningful…” (27:09)
• The fellows argue this approach ultimately undermines biblical authority, allowing listeners to selectively apply or reject biblical ethics: “You can run around saying the meaning is in the meaning all you want, but... you’re skipping why it provides meaning at all.” — Scott (29:12)

6. Peterson’s Relationship to Christianity (and Why He Needs a Preacher) (36:11)

• The hosts argue Peterson lacks a clear presentation of the gospel, and continues to equate Christianity primarily with moral or societal order (“Christianity is law”).
• “He says things like, ‘if there are Christians, Jesus Christ was the only one.’ The answer to that needs to be Amen. You’re right. ...Good thing He shares His Christianity then with you too... Let’s talk about what Jesus has done for you in his life, death, and resurrection, and how he hands over to you all those things that you obviously know you are not.” — Scott (36:39)
• The law clearly “works” on Peterson: he’s moved and even afraid of Christian claims, but misses the gospel promise.

7. A Clear Call for Evangelism, Not Just Apologetics (38:40)

• The hosts say Peterson, and people like him, do not need further arguments or moral ordering, but the declaration of Christ’s work and forgiveness.
• “This guy needs to be evangelized to—the actual gospel.” — Scott (34:52)
• “If you see him in an airport... hand over the goods to Jordan Peterson.” — Caleb (41:09)

8. Symbolism and Interpretation — Peterson and the Bronze Serpent (42:04)

• Peterson often interprets biblical stories psychologically (e.g., Moses and the serpent), saying it’s about “facing your fears.”
• The Fellows counter this: the key of the passage (and Christianity) is that salvation/healing “comes from the outside,” “in a way you would have never accomplished.”
• “Salvation comes to you through the unexpected outside, and it might even look like the thing that’s hurting you.” — Scott (44:28)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the influence of pop commentary:
  “If you write a piece of literature after everybody has a Bible in their house, the meanings that you ascribe to words and phrases have to relate in some way to the meanings people understand from Scripture.” — Caleb (23:46)

• On Peterson’s existential approach:
  “Everything is an idea and it’s a lens, and those don’t have to actually have happened. The lens can provide a framework by which you operate in the world.” — Caleb (26:30)

• On why defending meaning without truth doesn't work:
  “What he doesn’t realize... is exactly what’s eroded all confidence in the Bible... When they started to say things like it doesn’t matter if it actually happened or not, it’s meaningful.” — Scott (27:09)

• On the urgent need for gospel proclamation:
  “This guy needs to be evangelized to—the actual gospel.” — Scott (34:52)

• Peterson’s need for forgiveness and grace:
  “He knows he hasn’t fulfilled the law, even though he’s apparently an arbiter of it. He knows that other Christians haven’t.” — Scott (37:27)

• A call to action:
  “If you see him in an airport... hand over the goods to Jordan Peterson.” — Caleb (41:09)

Key Timestamps

• 03:36 — Why discuss Peterson now?
• 06:46 — On Joe Rogan’s platform and responsibility
• 12:34 — Peterson’s biography and current religious position
• 20:45 — The Bible is ‘beyond truth’: What does Peterson mean?
• 24:43 — Critiques of ‘meaning over truth’ and neo-orthodoxy
• 36:11 — Peterson reduced to morality, misses the gospel
• 38:40 — The solution: Preach forgiveness and Christ to Peterson
• 42:04 — Peterson’s interpretation of Moses and the serpent; why outside help is key

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation is irreverently scholarly, with the hosts blending humor, cultural knowledge, and robust theological critique. Their primary concern is for the centrality of the gospel—the historic, crucified, and risen Christ—against any notion that Christianity is merely a source of meaning or moral structure. They express a genuine care for Peterson and those influenced by him, wishing someone would “preach the gospel” clearly to him and to all who—thanks to figures like Peterson—may be searching for something solid, but are only getting frameworks, not forgiveness.