Thinking Fellows Live in Northwest Arkansas – July 3, 2025

Overview

In this live episode from the Here We Still Stand regional event in Bentonville, Arkansas, the Thinking Fellows—Caleb Keith, Scott Keith, and Adam Francisco—host a wide-ranging lay-level conversation on contemporary issues facing Christianity, especially from a Lutheran perspective. Departing from their usual deep-dives into singular topics, each host shares what’s been on their minds lately, exploring subjects from church attendance, family and fatherhood, and apologetics to cultural ethics like genetics and the use of the law in Christian life. The discussion is engaging, candid, and features interactive, sometimes humorous, exchanges reflective of their rapport and commitment to approachable theology.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New Book Release: Sinner Saint and the Simul Doctrine (00:17–03:10)

• Caleb introduces the event and announces Sinner Saint, 1517’s new book on the Lutheran doctrine of the “simul”—the concept that Christians are simultaneously saints and sinners.
  • "It covers a very important and I think overlooked topic of the Simmel that's simultaneously sinner and Sin Saint. And there's some great sections in here..." – Caleb (00:42)
• Scott shares background on commissioning the book and its importance:
  • "If you have ever wondered about what is this at the same time saint and sinner stuff ... you should read this. It's a very, very good, solid, thorough and yet not too long explanation of the idea of the Simul." – Scott (02:10)
• This leads into a reflection on 1517’s new publishing philosophy.

2. Podcasting Challenges and Evolution (03:20–04:49)

• Caleb highlights the repetitiveness in long-term Christian podcasting and the recent success of their “Lutheran Identity Crisis” series.
• Adam and Scott agree that the Lutheran identity crisis reflects broader struggles within Christianity today.

3. What’s On Our Minds: Hosts’ Personal and Theological Preoccupations (05:01–51:21)

Scott Keith: Family, Declining Birth Rates, and Bonhoeffer (05:53–21:25)

• Psalm 22 and Preaching: Scott discusses how prepping to preach on Psalm 22 has opened new personal insights.
• Family and Fatherhood: Ongoing research for a new book, tracking declining marriage and birth rates, and their impact on church demographics.
  • "I'm doing a Being dad talk or a talk on families ... it's pretty easy for me to go to a church and say, can look around at the people in this room and just. I bet you'll be able to count on one hand the number of them that are under 70..." – Scott (08:35)
• Practical Support for the Fatherless:
  • Advocates direct encouragement for marriage and parenthood, referencing Genesis' first commands.
  • On mentor roles for the fatherless: “If you are a man in a church who can be that voice to a fatherless child in your congregation ... I highly encourage you to consider making that a part of your normal routine…” (17:24)
• Normalizing vs. Empathizing with Tragedy: Caleb and Scott discuss the danger of simply normalizing singleness or childlessness, rather than compassionately addressing them as struggles resulting from the Fall.
• Dietrich Bonhoeffer: Scott shares his conflicted perspective after reading a recent biography.
  • “He's often set up as sort of like the paragon of, if you want to live a Christian life, look at Dietrich Bonhoeffer ... I came out of the other side of it thinking he's...a cautionary tale..." (10:15)

Adam Francisco: Church Identity, the Shroud of Turin, and Apologetics (21:31–34:30)

• The Church's Identity: Prompted by news coverage of a deceased Pope, Adam reflects on Christ's intent for the Church (“upon this rock...”), lamenting historical and present-day church divisions.
  • “I get a little aggrieved that there's. There's so much division in the church...” (24:05)
• Catholic/Famous Relics & Apologetics: Fascination with the Shroud of Turin resurges after hearing it converted comedian Eddie Bravo, raising questions about the limits and function of evidential apologetics.
  • “His journey to faith...was by him just simply looking at the. The historicity of. Of things. And...he believes that Jesus actually rose from the dead.” (26:42)
• Concerns About Anchoring Faith on Historical Evidence: Caleb voices concern over the risk if such relics are later debunked. Adam responds by highlighting how evidence can help “tear down barriers” (31:11), but only the Word creates faith.

Caleb Keith: The Third Use of the Law and Genetic Ethics (34:38–45:39)

• Law and Christian Behavior: Expresses frustration that Lutheran circles keep revisiting the “third use of the law,” often confusing it with sanctification or importing non-Lutheran theological terms.
  • “It's about an anxiety of Christian behavior which the law presented as a kind package, does not achieve…” (35:25)
• Human Genetics and Emerging Eugenics: Raises alarm about the ethical challenges of new reproductive technologies (like embryo selection and gene editing). Critiques the framing of these technologies as “curing” disease, when in fact, individuals are being selected out.
  • “It's curing no disease. It's eliminating people who potentially might be born with the disease.” – Scott (41:33)
  • Discusses lack of regulation in the US and mismatches between medical advancement and moral reflection, noting that both secular scientists and Christians raise objections.

Hopeful Trends and Closing Thoughts (45:39–51:21)

• Rising Church Attendance & Young Men Returning: Both Scott and Caleb note an uptick in young men attending church, reversing historical trends. Adam adds that high-profile public converts have sparked curiosity.
• Tradition vs. Authenticity: The team cautions against a “traditionalism for its own sake,” emphasizing that emotional or cultural benefits won't sustain faith—only the proclamation of the Gospel can.
  • “Only the proclamation of the gospel…can sustain a lifetime in the faith." – Caleb (49:30)
  • “That is the unchangingness of the church...to proclaim the gospel of Christ Jesus, boldly to defend it when necessary, and to give people the goods as the sacraments in accordance with His Word.” – Scott (49:52)
• Adam underscores the vocation and mission of every Christian: “...in our culture ... there's all sorts of new and interesting opportunity to speak the gospel to our neighbor in our house and on the streets…”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Church Demographics:
  • “I bet you'll be able to count on one hand the number of them that are under 70…” – Scott (08:35)
• On Fatherhood and Societal Priorities:
  • “God's first three commands in the garden, which are basically, get a job, you slacker. Get married and make babies.” – Scott (12:52)
• On the Loss of Normalcy and False Comfort:
  • “It's normal. It's okay to be single or to struggle with singleness. And it's normal. It's okay. And it's normal to be without a father. The reality is the reason people struggle with these things ... is because they are not normal, because they are a struggle, because they are something to actually sympathize with.” – Caleb (18:01)
• On Third Use of the Law Anxiety:
  • "It's about an anxiety of Christian behavior which the law presented as a kind package, does not achieve.” – Caleb (35:25)
• On Genetic “Cures”:
  • "It's curing no disease. It's eliminating people who potentially might be born with the disease.” – Scott (41:33)
• On 'The Church':
  • “That is the unchangingness of the church...to proclaim the gospel of Christ Jesus, boldly to defend it when necessary, and to give people the goods as the sacraments in accordance with His Word.” – Scott (49:52)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:17–03:10 – Book announcement & Simul doctrine
• 03:20–04:49 – Evolution/repetition in topical theology, Lutheran Identity Crisis series
• 05:53–21:25 – Scott: family, generational change, Bonhoeffer reflections, church demographics
• 21:31–34:30 – Adam: Church identity, relics/apologetics, the limits of evidence
• 34:38–45:39 – Caleb: third use of the law, genetic ethics and eugenics threat
• 45:39–51:21 – Hopeful church resurgence, young male attendance, tradition vs. gospel, public converts
• 49:30–51:21 – Gospel as the center and source of lasting faith

Tone & Style

The episode is honest, nuanced, and sometimes wry, mixing theology with real-life anecdotes and candor. The hosts challenge each other and their audience to critically consider cultural trends in light of the gospel, often questioning both church and societal conventions. Their style is lay-friendly, but the content remains rich in theological and ethical insight.

For listeners or readers, this episode offers a thoughtful snapshot of present anxieties and hopes within the church, a passionate call to substantive engagement with faith and culture, and a reminder that the gospel remains the church’s central and unchanging good.