Podcast Summary: Thinking Fellows – "Why Mormonism Isn't Christianity"

Host: 1517 Podcasts
Episode Date: November 17, 2025
Panelists: Caleb Keith, Adam Francisco, Scott Keith, Bruce Hilman
Duration: 45 minutes (ad-free content)

Episode Overview

This episode addresses the longstanding question, "Is Mormonism a form of Christianity?" The hosts explore the history, beliefs, and apologetic challenges of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS, commonly known as Mormonism). Drawing from historical context, doctrinal analysis, and personal experiences, the panel breaks down why—by essential theological standards—Mormonism stands outside the bounds of orthodox Christianity.

Main Topics & Key Insights

1. Framing the Core Issue: Why This Matters

• Why now: Caleb Keith notes that LDS is often included as "Christian" in search trends and social discourse, creating confusion about its actual relationship to historical Christianity.
• Mormon insistence: Mormons identify as Christians, but their narrative works precisely because of strategic similarities in language and presentation.

“At least within the broader context of search engines, AI and people’s minds, the Latter-Day Saints have snuck into the category of Christianity.”
— Caleb (00:44)

2. Origins & Restorationism

[02:51–06:15]

• Adam Francisco summarizes:
  • Joseph Smith’s "First Vision": Smith received a vision in which God the Father and Jesus told him all existing Christian churches were false and he alone was chosen to restore the "true" church.
  • Restorationist movement: All prior Christianity is rejected as corrupted; LDS claims to be a return to apostolic origins.
  • Use of Christian language: Terms like "salvation," "atonement," and "Godhead" are used, but meanings are dramatically redefined.

"So in a way, traditional Mormonism says that all of Christianity, at least all the versions of Christianity before 1820, are false."
— Adam (05:11)

3. Surface Similarities, Deep Differences

[06:15–10:00]

• Strategy: LDS messaging highlights accessible Christianity-like ideas and simplifies or flattens difficult Christian doctrines.
• Key Doctrinal Overlaps (but altered meanings):
  • Godhead: Not the Trinity, but three separate beings united in purpose. Tri-theism, not monotheism.
  • Salvation: Claimed as “by grace,” but actually “after all you can do” (a blend of works/grace).
  • Scripture: Bible only “insofar as it is correctly translated,” plus LDS revelations.
  • Esoteric language: Terms sound Christian but refer to different realities.

"They will say, you’re saved by grace... but the Mormon doctrine is you are saved by grace after you do everything that you can do."
— Bruce (09:15)
"Significant theological differences. Significant, not minor. And Mormons will say, ‘Oh, no, they’re minor.’ They’re not minor."
— Bruce (09:40)

4. Mormon Theology in Context

[10:00–13:36]

• Polytheism & Borrowed Ideas:
  • God is one among many gods; humans can become gods.
  • Smith possibly influenced by multiple religious/philosophical streams (Islam, Eastern religions, Gnosticism).

"It’s actually kind of a polytheistic religion... it’s a universe charged with deity."
— Adam (10:07)

• History of Mormon Persecution & Migration:
  • LDS history involves violence, displacement, eventual settlement in Utah under Brigham Young.

5. Why Is Mormonism Growing?

[13:50–16:13]

• Speculation on popularity:
  • Social media influencers, family-centric messaging, and strategic alignment with Christian values.
  • Higher birth rates within the community.
  • Use of familiar Christian-seeming language as a bridge to attract seekers.

"There’s a lot of these influencers who gather millions of followers on TikTok... and after a year or two... solid 60% chance they’re Mormon."
— Caleb (15:24)

6. Material & Formal Principles Explained

[16:13–19:48]

Scott Keith references Dr. Manski’s framework:

• Christianity:
  • Material Principle: By grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone.
  • Formal Principle: Only the Old and New Testaments as divine revelation.
• LDS:
  • Material Principle: Man as a preexistent soul gains salvation by following laws/regulations from the priests.
  • Formal Principle: Revelation is ongoing via church leaders, in addition to the Bible, Book of Mormon, and other LDS scriptures.
• Works-based nature: Salvation is entirely earned through obedience and ritual.

"It is 100% a works-based religion."
— Scott (17:10)

• On proselytization: use of key words like “grace,” “faith,” “Jesus,” and “discipleship” to attract evangelical Christians.

7. Epistemology: The Burning in the Bosom

[21:34–25:14]

• Knowledge (how we know what we know):
  • LDS epistemology is based on subjective experience—a "burning in the bosom"—rather than public evidence or critical history.
  • Vulnerable to critique: If faith is purely subjective, anyone anywhere could believe any religion by the same standard.

"I just have faith. ...If that’s your epistemology, put you in Pakistan, you’d be an Islamist; or in Salt Lake City, you’d be a Mormon."
— Adam (47:05)

8. Mormon Soteriology, Afterlife, and Family Structure

[25:11–29:17]

• Salvation involves unique practices:
  • Baptism for the dead, hierarchical heavens, and the necessity of family ties.
  • Female exaltation is dependent on the husband’s authority in the afterlife.

"As a woman, you cannot have salvation — that full salvation in the highest heaven — without your husband."
— Bruce (26:32)

• Celestial marriage & procreation:
  • To reach the highest heaven and become a god, one (especially men) must have many children.
  • God was once human, became God; humans can follow suit.

9. Contradictions, Secrecy, and Authority

[29:54–35:19]

• Internal contradictions:
  • Book of Mormon is closer to Christian language; later works (Doctrine & Covenants, Pearl of Great Price) diverge further.
  • LDS doctrine can change by new prophetic revelation.
  • Level of secrecy: Certain teachings and rituals only accessible to advanced/initiated members.

"When you have so many sources of authority, ... that’s ripe for that kind of secretism and that sort of ‘well, this didn’t work out so we’ll change it.’"
— Scott (33:32)

10. Falsifiability and Historical Claims

[35:19–43:58]

• LDS claims are mostly unfalsifiable:
  • Book of Mormon’s historicity is not verifiable (e.g., no archaeological evidence for battles, extinct animals like elephants).
  • The "golden plates" were never publicly available—only certain individuals ever claimed to see them, and later they were said to have been taken by an angel.

“Only particular people can have access to what the plates do.”
— Caleb (42:49)

11. Comparative Religion, Exclusivity, and the Gospel

[48:18–50:29]

• Key distinction in Christianity:
  • Christianity’s uniqueness is in its claim that salvation is by grace alone through Christ’s work—completely apart from human effort—contrasting all works-based religions, including Mormonism.
  • Christianity exposes itself to falsifiability: “If Christ be not raised, your faith is in vain.”
  • Every "restoration"/replacement faith offers answers to difficult questions by moving away from ambiguity and mystery in favor of easier, often more legalistic, certainty.

"Christianity is also completely unique in this other one way… it’s the only one that gives you the code to break the system."
— Scott (49:00)

12. Apologetic Cautions and Modern Implications

[56:12–58:08]

• Danger of burning-in-bosom apologetics:
  • Evangelicals risk sliding into subjective validation (“I feel it’s true, so it is”—akin to “burning in the bosom”) if they neglect the evidential basis for faith.
  • The hosts urge Christians to anchor their faith not in experiential feelings, but in the objective reality of Christ’s death and resurrection.

"The validation of your faith is not how well your Christian walk is going, ... they’re not the pivot for whether or not something is true."
— Caleb (56:15)

"If you make your feeling about something the arbiter of truth… it leads you there. That’s why Adam is so annoyed with fideism…"
— Scott (57:01)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On Joseph Smith’s vision:
  "He gets this first vision where God the Father and Jesus the Son appear... and tell him he shouldn’t join any of the [Christian] churches because all... are false."
  — Adam (03:25)

• On core LDS soteriology:
  "You are saved by grace after you do everything that you can do."
  — Bruce (09:15)

• On Christian uniqueness:
  "Christianity is the only really weird one. The other ones are still the same."
  — Scott (48:54)

• On the epistemology of Mormonism:
  "When it comes to my religious… life, I just have faith."
  — Adam relaying a LDS member’s viewpoint (47:05)

Episode Timeline (Timestamps of Key Segments)

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:44–02:51 | Why this episode, search trends, Mormon self-ID | | 02:51–06:15 | Origins: Joseph Smith, First Vision, restorationism | | 10:00–13:36 | Theological borrowing, violence, LDS migration | | 13:50–16:13 | Social media and LDS popularity | | 16:13–19:48 | Formal/material principle distinction | | 21:34–25:14 | Epistemology, “burning in the bosom” | | 25:11–29:17 | Afterlife, family, women's role | | 29:54–35:19 | Contradictions, LDS secrecy, magic underwear | | 35:19–43:58 | Unfalsifiability, golden plates, archaeology | | 48:18–50:29 | Distinctiveness of the Christian Gospel | | 56:12–58:08 | Fideism and apologetics caution for Christians |

Final Thoughts

The panel underscores that while Mormonism uses Christian terminology and cultural forms, its essential teachings on the nature of God, the means and assurance of salvation, authority of scripture, and ultimate destiny are fundamentally divergent from historic Christian faith. Mormonism is best described as a Christian-based new religion—radically different in both content and spirit from orthodox Christianity.

If you’re interested in digging deeper, see Adam Francisco’s blog article "Not Done in a Corner" on 1517’s website, as referenced near the episode’s close (58:10).

Summary by AI (Thinking Fellows podcast summarizer)