Thinking Fellows: "Why You Should Distinguish Law and Gospel"

Podcast: Thinking Fellows – 1517 Podcasts
Date: May 18, 2022
Hosts: Caleb Keith, Dr. Scott Keith, Dr. Adam Francisco

Episode Overview

In this theologically rich and engaging episode, the Thinking Fellows explore the crucial distinction between Law and Gospel—a cornerstone of Reformation theology and Lutheran teaching. The hosts delve into why this distinction is essential for understanding the message of Scripture, the nature of God, and the proper proclamation of Christian doctrine. Using historical insights and vivid analogies, they emphasize how confusing these categories distorts the message of Christianity and undermines the comfort the Gospel is meant to bring.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Centrality of Law and Gospel in Christian Theology

• Law and Gospel as God's "Two Words"

  • The show frames Scripture as ultimately telling "the story of God's law and God's gospel"—the demands of God upon sinners and His promises to them.
    • Dr. Scott Keith (03:37): “In Scripture, when you're looking at sort of the story that scripture is telling, it's telling the story of God's law and God's gospel...God's just demands on the sinner and then God's promises to the sinner.”
  • Both law and gospel culminate in Christ's incarnation—His life, death, and resurrection for humanity.

• Why Distinguish Law and Gospel?

  • The hosts stress that the chief theological error is confusing Law (God’s demands) and Gospel (God’s promises).
    • Dr. Scott Keith (06:24): "The most prevalent thing that happens…is that you will read something that is likely law…and you will either promote it as...gospel...And in confusing that, the one that usually is harmed in the confusion is the gospel."
  • The Gospel is foreign to our experience and often gets obscured when we default to Law.

2. Deep Definitions and Their Origins

• Basic Definitions from the Reformation

  • The Reformers, especially Philip Melanchthon, systematically distinguished Law (commands/demands) and Gospel (promises).
    • Caleb Keith (15:26): “His most basic definition is that these are the commands...that you violate, you violated the righteous, righteous demands of God.”

• The Function of Law: Exposing who We Are

  • The Law drives self-examination, showing not just that we sin, but that we are sinners by nature—"curved in on ourselves."
  • The Decalogue/10 Commandments are designed to move us to look outside ourselves, both to God and neighbor (16:34).
    • Dr. Scott Keith (16:36): "It's an intentional attempt to get you to look outside of yourself. Why do we think God did that? Well, it's because...we're turned in on ourselves..."
  • The hosts highlight that scriptural Law reveals both our actions and our very heart's inclination against God.

• The Function of Gospel: God's Reconciliation

  • The Gospel is the message that, despite being enemies of God, we are reconciled to Him through Christ.
    • Dr. Adam Francisco (18:30): "Even while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his son. There's the gospel. Despite yourself and how awful you are, God still has reconciled you to himself..."

3. The Danger and Consequence of Confusing Law and Gospel

• Law’s Power: To Kill, Not to Save

  • The Law cannot save—only the Gospel does that.
    • Dr. Scott Keith (21:39): “The main thing that the law does not have the power to do that is often ascribed to it is to save. The law has the power to kill and the gospel is the power to save.”

• All Religion vs. The Gospel

  • Many religions and even some Christian expressions use the Law as the path to God, making salvation conditional or uncertain.
    • Dr. Adam Francisco (22:11): “That's all religion...whether it's historic religions or man made ideologies masquerading as religion...there is a sort of a parallel teaching. It's called the promise and the threat."
    • Dr. Scott Keith (24:03): "There is one way to eternal life. That way is through Jesus Christ our Lord...You are saved. This is, this is an outside in thing. This is not something that you muster up within yourself and do. And when we...get accused of...bagging on the preaching of the law—it’s just not true. Because the preaching of the law is critically important to the preaching of the gospel because a person first needs to be killed in order that they be made alive.”

4. Preaching & Personal Application

• Why the Distinction Matters for Daily Life and Preaching

  • The proper proclamation of Law and Gospel is essential—Law kills, Gospel makes alive. Both must be preached in their full strength.
    • Dr. Scott Keith (36:02): “The purpose for that preaching is again...to kill that God Maker within you. So that when the preaching of the Gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit comes, you are actually made a new...Both the recognition and understanding of law and gospel and the proclamation of law and gospel.”

• Law and Gospel in the Christian Life

  • Even for Christians, the cycle of conviction and consolation is ongoing. Church is the place to be killed and made alive again each week.
    • Dr. Scott Keith (26:38): “Every day you're assailed by sin, death, and the power of the devil that is trying to...win you back...So why do you go [to church]? You go every Sunday to be killed and made alive once more.”
  • Illustrations include societal analogies (e.g., sin as being evil, society’s discomfort with calling things by their real names), and cultural pressure to self-improve (e.g., "Jordan Peterson, wake up and make your bed," 28:37).

• Contemporary Struggles

  • The hosts note the difficulty both in the church and in wider society to accept the radical message that sin is not just about actions, but about nature—“you are a sinner.”
    • Dr. Adam Francisco (34:06): “I think Christians by and large don't have a problem in acknowledging in some way...they're sinful and unclean...but the words 'by nature,' that's the real offensive thing.”

Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes

• On the Logic of the Gospel:
  • Dr. Scott Keith (08:28): “Think of it this way. It's that the hero dies for the villain and the villain gets the benefits of the hero. And we don't like thinking of ourselves that way.”
• On Sin and Human Nature:
  • Dr. Adam Francisco (17:37): “We're not sinners because we sin, but we're sinners because it's just who we are. That's essential in Christian theology. And it's radical...the problem really is us.”
• On the Danger of Religious “God Making”:
  • Dr. Scott Keith (21:58): “What if I could convince you that if you just lived this way and I was the one that was giving you the insight how to live, that it would save you? How, how much would you love me?”
• On Preaching Law and Gospel:
  • Dr. Scott Keith (24:36): “The person first has to be killed and thus the preaching of the gospel, the law has to occur. My only thing that I advocate for is to actually preach the law, actually kill the sinner, right? Don't nag the sinner, don't wave your finger at the sinner...Kill them with God's lot because that's why he gave it. And then bring them alive with God's gospel because that's why he gave it.”
• On Church Life:
  • Dr. Scott Keith (26:38): “Why do you go [to church]? You go every Sunday to be killed and made alive once more...to be reminded of who you are in Christ and that you are assured of who you are in Christ.”
• On Hope in the Gospel:
  • Dr. Scott Keith (37:04): “Theology is for proclamation. You don't just do these things for the sake of doing them. You do these, you understand these things. You discern law and gospel so that law and gospel can be proclaimed to the world and that people can be brought to Christ as their only hope for salvation.”

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [03:24] – Law and Gospel as God’s Two Words
• [06:24] – Why the Gospel is endangered when Law and Gospel are confused
• [14:03] – Historical roots: Melanchthon and defining Law and Gospel
• [16:34] – The Decalogue and the outward focus of the Law
• [18:30] – Reconciliation through Christ even while we were enemies
• [21:39] – The Law’s limits: it can only kill, not save
• [24:36] – The proper use of Law in preaching
• [26:38] – Ongoing need for Law and Gospel in Christian life/church
• [34:06] – The offense of original sin and human nature

Episode Takeaways

• Distinguishing Law and Gospel is essential for understanding Scripture, the nature of salvation, and the message of Christianity.
• Preaching Law and Gospel in their fullness is crucial, both for exposing our desperate need and for announcing God's all-sufficient grace in Christ.
• Misusing or blending these categories sabotages the comfort and certainty that the Gospel brings, leaving people relying on themselves instead of Christ.
• This distinction is not an artificial imposition on Scripture, but a hermeneutical principle that arises naturally from the biblical text and finds its fulfillment in Jesus.

For anyone seeking to better understand the drama of sin and grace in the Bible, this episode is a rich resource—combining theology, history, and real-world wisdom in the signature style of the Thinking Fellows.