660: Hoaxing Yourself

Summary

This American Life – Episode 660: Hoaxing Yourself
Release Date: October 27, 2024

Host: Ira Glass
Producer: This American Life
Description:
Each week, This American Life explores a central theme through a collection of true stories that unfold like little movies for radio. In Episode 660, titled "Hoaxing Yourself," Ira Glass delves into the fascinating world of personal deception—where individuals craft false identities, sometimes intentionally fooling others, and other times becoming ensnared in their own lies. This episode features three compelling acts that examine the complexity of self-hoaxing from different angles.

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Act 1: The Sun Never Sets on the Moosewood Restaurant

Summary:
Act one introduces us to the story of Joel Lovell and Sean Cole, two young men from small towns who embarked on a journey of self-deception during their college years. Joel, originally from upstate New York, and Sean, from a small town in Massachusetts, both developed British accents and personas as a means of distancing themselves from their rural, working-class backgrounds.

Key Discussions & Insights:

• Adoption of British Identities:
  Joel Lovell recounts how his fascination with British TV shows, such as Doctor Who and Dempsey and Makepeace, led him to adopt a British accent indefinitely from the age of 14 to 16. Sean Cole observes, "[Joel] was using an English accent, literally from waking to sleeping" (06:00).

• Psychiatric Intervention:
  Concerned about their accents, both boys were taken to see a psychiatrist. Joel describes the encounter:
  "He was really very confrontive. And he was like, 'You've got to stop doing this because you're not British'" (02:30).

• Social Reinforcement and Identity Crisis:
  The boys struggled with maintaining their British personas, especially when questioned by peers and family. Joel emphasizes the difficulty:
  "I had trouble saying, 'Oh, I faked an accent for two years.'" (06:00).

• Coping Mechanisms and Personal Growth:
  Both Joel and Sean reflect on their actions, acknowledging that while they wish they hadn't deceived themselves, the experience contributed to their personal development. Sean notes, "It gave me more confidence and allowed me to bridge different aspects of my identity" (20:46).

Notable Quotes:

• Joel Lovell on adopting his accent:
  "It was second nature. It was first nature." (06:00)

• Sean Cole on the psychiatrist's advice:
  "The situation seemed impossible." (02:48)

• Joel Lovell reflecting on his actions:
  "I didn't feel like I had anything that made me up." (11:02)

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Act 2: Conning the Con Men

Summary:
Act two shifts focus to the world of cons and counter-cons, spotlighting David Diamond, a prolific telemarketer who defrauded millions through deceptive sales tactics. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) ultimately caught Diamond by orchestrating a sting operation that involved conning the conmen themselves.

Key Discussions & Insights:

• David Diamond’s Schemes:
  Diamond operated a boiler room scam in Los Angeles, disguising fraudulent investment opportunities under various plausible business names. Over seven years, he amassed $40 million by deceiving unwitting investors, earning himself $2 million in commissions alone (23:01).

• FTC's Counter-Strategy:
  The FTC employed a unique approach by enlisting volunteers to pose as potential investors (“Marge”) to trap Diamond. Nancy Updike narrates how volunteers like Marge engaged Diamond in lengthy phone conversations, ultimately exposing his deceit (22:03).

• Ethics and the Psychology of Conmen:
  The episode explores how confidence and arrogance can make even seasoned conmen vulnerable to being deceived themselves. Marge challenges Diamond with questions that expose his desperation and questionable ethics (28:00).

• Emotional Impact on Victims:
  Nancy expresses profound frustration and anger towards the victims who lost their life savings, highlighting the emotional and financial devastation caused by such scams (33:18).

Notable Quotes:

• Dale Sakovich on David Diamond:
  "David Diamond was making money hand over fist, clearing $40 million." (23:30)

• Nancy Updike on listening to the tapes:
  "Every time I hear these pitches, I'm outraged because I am the person that spoke to people who really did send David Diamond tens of thousands of dollars." (33:57)

• Marge on the interaction:
  "I would never liquidate everything I have." (28:20)

Notable Quote with Timestamp:

• David Diamond advocating for full investment:
  "You should invest everything you have. You should transfer all of your investment into this program or do nothing." (27:18)

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Act 3: Oedipus Hex

Summary:
In the final act, Shalom Auslander shares a poignant and unsettling story from his childhood in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish yeshiva. At the age of eight, faced with his family's struggles and under the stern oversight of Rabbi Breyer, Shalom grapples with conflicting desires to secure his family's approval and his own burgeoning sense of morality.

Key Discussions & Insights:

• The Pressure of Religious Expectations:
  Shalom details the intense environment of the yeshiva, where mastering the "Guide to Blessings" was seen as a path to honor his family. The pressure culminates in a tumultuous Shabbos dinner marred by his father's drunken rage (39:39).

• Internal Conflict and Rebellion:
  Faced with Rabbi Breyer's strict enforcement of religious laws, Shalom experiences an identity crisis, contemplating drastic actions to influence his family's fortunes. He narrates his attempts to sin to cause divine punishment on his father, illustrating a profound inner turmoil (49:26).

• The Blessing Bee:
  The story climaxes with the "Blessing Bee," a game akin to a spelling bee, where Shalom participates under immense stress. His final act of defiance leads to a traumatic confrontation with Rabbi Breyer, resulting in physical punishment and the irrevocable loss of the "Blessing Be" (49:26).

• Long-Term Impact:
  Shalom reflects on the lasting effects of his childhood experiences, highlighting themes of authority, compliance, and the desperate measures one might take under extreme pressure (58:23).

Notable Quotes:

• Shalom Auslander on the yeshiva experience:
  "Preparation for Shabbos is equal to the importance of Shabbos itself." (39:39)

• Shalom reflecting on his actions:
  "There I was, bringing them here... I felt so bad about it afterwards." (19:00)

• Rabbi Breyer’s decree:
  "Blessed is the one true Judge." (49:26)

Notable Quote with Timestamp:

• Shalom on the traumatic event:
  "The blessing be was lost. I was not a great rabbi, and my father was still not dead." (58:23)

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Concluding Insights and Themes

"Hoaxing Yourself" weaves together disparate narratives, all centered around the idea of self-deception and the lengths individuals go to forge or maintain altered identities. Whether it's adopting a foreign persona to escape one's origins, orchestrating elaborate scams, or grappling with internal moral conflicts under oppressive societal norms, the stories delve deep into the psychology of self-hoaxing.

Recurring Themes:

• Identity and Authenticity:
  The episode questions the essence of one's identity and the moral implications of altering or fabricating oneself to fit certain molds or escape one's environment.

• Consequences of Deception:
  From personal relationships to large-scale financial fraud, the stories highlight the ripple effects that self-deception can have on an individual's life and those around them.

• Moral Ambiguity and Redemption:
  Characters in the episode wrestle with their actions, whether seeking redemption or entrenching themselves further into deceit, showcasing the complex interplay between morality and self-preservation.

Final Thoughts:
Through its richly detailed storytelling and poignant reflections, Episode 660 of This American Life invites listeners to ponder the intricate dance between truth and falsehood within themselves and society at large. By presenting multifaceted narratives on self-hoaxing, the episode underscores the universal struggle to reconcile one's inner desires with external expectations.

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Notable Timestamped Quotes:

• Joel Lovell on his British persona:
  "I felt like I had nothing that made me up." (11:02)

• Nancy Updike on the impact of scams:
  "I've seen them sob. Yeah, it makes me very angry." (33:18)

• Shalom Auslander on his father’s actions:
  "My father slapped my hand. Shabbos." (49:26)

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Additional Resources:

For further exploration of these stories and more, visit This American Life to listen to Episode 660: "Hoaxing Yourself."

Transcript

[Ira Glass]

Support for this American life comes from Capella University. Learning doesn't have to get in the way of life. With Capella's game changing Flexpath learning format, you can set your own deadlines and learn on your own schedule. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to earn your degree. Instead, enjoy learning your way and pursue your educational and career goals without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at Capella. Eduardo.

[Sean Cole]

Parents, here is all the evidence that you need that TV is bad for kids, especially public TV. When Sean was 14, he loved watching those British TV shows. They're always running on PBS, Masterpiece Theater, Doctor who.

[Joel Lovell]

And then there was this show that I would stay up really late and watch and tape and watch over and over again, the tapes called Dempsey and Makepeace, which was about an American detective who went to London because he had been like, set up at home and he was teamed up with a woman who was this aristocrat named Lady Harriet Makepeace. And I was really on her side. I thought, you know, she's got it going on.

[Sean Cole]

You looked down on the American.

[Joel Lovell]

Oh, yeah.

[Sean Cole]

What Chong liked about Lady Harriet, Make Peace, and all the other Brits on TV was their aloofness, how they seemed above it all, how they looked down on Americans, which Sean did. Also convinced there must be something wrong with the nation that produced jocks and bullies who harassed him in school and sometimes joking around with his friends, he would talk with a British accent.

[Joel Lovell]

And then it was just something that spiraled out of control. I know that eventually I was just using an English accent, literally from waking to sleeping, morning noon. And.

[Sean Cole]

Sean spoke with a British accent from the time he was 14 until he was 16. And at some point his mom thought, you know, maybe I need to do something about this, and took him to see a psychiatrist.

[Joel Lovell]

He was just really, he must. I don't know, you know, the different schools of psychology. But he was really very confrontive. And he was like, well, you know, you've got to stop doing this, he says. Cause you're not British, you know. And my mom, my mom just sort of sat over next to me and she sort of went, yeah, to agree with him and to sort of help him in showing me this.

[Sean Cole]

Sean was furious. He had an impulse to lecture the guy on how in fact he was British. And the only problem with that was that, A, he knew very well that he was not, and B, his mom was sitting right there. She was sure to contradict him. He didn't know what to do. The situation seemed impossible.

[Joel Lovell]

Cause that's what I was thinking, like, there has to be a way that I can be British still.

[Sean Cole]

There must be a way that this is true somehow.

[Joel Lovell]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sean Cole]

But today on our radio program, stories of people who tell a lie and they get to the point where they believe the lie more than anybody else does. It feels like it must be true. Happens all the time. And can I say, we are not even going to get into what happens with political figures in this show kidding themselves about the facts of things. Today we have stories of civilians, people like you and me basically pulling hoaxes on ourselves. From WBEZ Chicago, it's this American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Like one of our program today, the sun Never sets on the Moosewood Restaurant in which two young men, both from small towns, try on new identities, false identities, and what they have to do to keep the lies going. Act two Conning the Con Men Nancy Updike reports on a federal sting operation and how it caught conmen by setting up a con of its own. Act 3 Oedipus hex a little kid tries to get rid of his own father with a very, very unlikely plan. Stay with.

[Ira Glass]

Support for this American Life comes from Indeed. People are driven by the search for better. But when it comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all. Don't search match with Indeed. Use Indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com American terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed, Support for this American life comes from GoodRx. Did you know GoodRx offers 20 popular diabetes medications for under $20? Check GoodRx before heading to the pharmacy and get up to 80% off your prescriptions. GoodRx is free and easy to use. Search any medication, get your coupon and start saving. Even if you have insurance or Medicare, GoodRx could beat your copay. See how much you could save on diabetes and everyday [e-mail] Tal Throughline is.

[Nancy Updike]

A podcast where we tell stories about a place shrouded in mystery, the past. And to really understand it, we take you there.

[Shalom Auslander]

Something happened to our collective psyche after the atom bomb.

[Nancy Updike]

Listen to hear us reopen stories from.

[Sean Cole]

The past and find clues to the.

[Nancy Updike]

Present on Throughline, the history podcast from npr.

[Sean Cole]

It's just American Life. Act one the sun never sets on the Moosewood restaurant. So this is the story of two young people who, for a period in their lives, in their search to figure out who they were, pretended to be people who they were not. We're going to hear from Sean Cole and from Joel Lovell. We're going to start with Sean. Today's show is a rerun. This was recorded years ago. These days, Sean is a producer here at our show. Sean grew up in a small town in Massachusetts, a town that was approximately 3,350 miles from London.

[Joel Lovell]

It was second nature. It was first nature. It was, you know, to this day I have trouble saying, oh, I faked an accent for two years. I mean, I had an accent for two years. I like.

[Sean Cole]

Sean, could I just ask you to take a deep breath and describe for me what you had for lunch today or perhaps for breakfast this morning in as close to the accent that you can?

[Joel Lovell]

As close as I can, yeah. Okay. I'm gonna take a sip of water here. Well, Ira, I. I had a salad. I had it at the Boston House of Pancakes. Or a pizza, rather.

[Sean Cole]

What was the beverage?

[Joel Lovell]

It was a Snapple, A. Just lemon flavored. I don't really like the peach.

[Sean Cole]

Joe Lovell's story began when he left the working class town where he grew up in upstate New York. His parents owned a liquor store in a small town. He was the first member of his family to go to college. And it was an especially big deal because he got into an Ivy League school, Cornell.

[Dale Sakovich]

It was one of those first days of college, you know, when you spend a lot of time, everybody kind of moves in hordes and you spend a lot of time in each other's dorm rooms. And there was. There were about, I don't know, 10 or 11 of us in this one guy's room. And we were just like sitting around eating pizza and talking. And people were talking about what their, you know, where they were from and what their. What their parents did and stuff like that. And there was one guy whose dad was a doctor for the Knicks. There was another guy whose father was an elected representative from New York State. And then this other guy whose father was on the World Court, literally was a member of the World Court.

[Sean Cole]

Oh, my.

[Dale Sakovich]

And so it suddenly seemed like this incredibly sort of impressive group to me. And they seemed like just sort of worldly in ways that, you know, that was just beyond my wildest imagination and, you know, worldly beyond, you know, what I am now, frankly. And I remember sort of sitting there at the time thinking, oh, my God, I'm so out of my league here. And then Completely unplanned. I suddenly said, as a slice of pizza was passed to me, this sort of pizza with sausage on top of it. I said, you know, I can't take that because my parents are vegetarians. And everybody in the room kind of sort of turned and looked at me because it wasn't even as if I said, well, you know, I'm a vegetarian. But I said, my parents are vegetarians, and there's a sort of puzzled look on everybody in the room. And I said, well. And I am, too. I've never eaten meat, and I'm not entirely. Well, I mean, I have some ideas now about why I said that, but at the time, I had no idea what I was saying. It was like suddenly I'd become possessed, and I had to think of something to say about myself that seemed interesting. And vegetarianism was the thing that I chose.

[Sean Cole]

Now, tell people that you were actually from England.

[Joel Lovell]

No, no, never. That I was from Britain, but that. But in a way that I was British. You know, there was a real distinction there for me. Like, I. You know, I'd taken it on, like I was culturally British. Now.

[Dale Sakovich]

Well, I think what it was is. I mean, I think I did some sort of calculus that took like, a nanosecond in my head. And I thought, you know, I can't actually lie about what my parents do. But I think the connections that I was making were this. That somehow, like, because I was from this town in the sticks, if my folks were vegetarians, then the whole history that. That suggested was that they were sort of these kind of leftist academic radicals who had sort of dropped out of society and gone back to the land. And I was living in this bumpkin town in upstate New York. And, you know, my folks were living some sort of life that was driven by their political philosophy rather than, you know, I was just a guy who grew up in upstate New York.

[Joel Lovell]

You know, I did the old kid thing of, like, wishing that my real British parents would come and tell me I was adopted and take me back to London.

[Dale Sakovich]

So I'm sitting there in the room and all these guys are looking at me and they're like, dude, you know, then what do you eat? And suddenly I realized. I realized in that moment how little I knew about vegetarianism. And I kind of tried to be real sort of vague about it. You know, we eat salads and lentils. I remember sort of saying lentils a.

[Joel Lovell]

Lot, you know, and there was a gap certainly in my education because, like, I would be using words that Americans just don't use, you know, I would. Instead of saying drugstore, I would say chemist. Or, you know, I would try my best to remember to say bonnet instead of hood or boot instead of trunk. But I often couldn't.

[Dale Sakovich]

On the meal plan, I ended up eating a lot of big piles of iceberg lettuce and chickpeas.

[Sean Cole]

And during that time, would you find yourself sneaking to go to get meat somewhere?

[Dale Sakovich]

Yeah, definitely. At first, I would go really far from campus in order to have a blt. There was this. There's this diner downtown in Ithaca, and it was. You know, it felt incredibly illicit. I'd be sitting there, and I'd have some reading material or something with me, and I'd be the lonely guy in my booth, and I would order the blt, and I would sort of watch it kind of coming from across the room, you know, with its toothpick in the top of it and a side of French fries with this meat gravy on top. And it would just, you know, when it landed on the table, it would just seem like this incredibly, you know, sort of wonderful moment, you know, when you're doing something just totally unlike what anybody would expect of you.

[Joel Lovell]

I was nobody, you know. I mean, I was living in a extremely small, kind of rural town in the middle of nowhere. It was, I guess, in a way, like this was my way of traveling and, you know, in a way and of being somebody and sort of achieving an identity, which I guess I didn't feel like I had. Like, I didn't feel like I'm just sort of realizing this now, but I guess I didn't feel as though I had anything that made me up.

[Dale Sakovich]

I mean, what I realized fairly quickly is that if this is going to be believable, I actually have to. Well, I have to believe in it. But I also began to not only believe, but really sort of take on as my Persona all of the stuff that I imagine was associated with vegetarianism. So, like what? Well, you know, certain sort of. Certain political convictions and ways of dress.

[Joel Lovell]

I wore ripped jeans and I wore combat boots, but I also wore, like, a kind of stage jacket that you would see, you know, in a community theater production of Hamlet.

[Dale Sakovich]

Yeah, you know, I bought sandals. I very specifically remember going down to this thrift store in downtown Ithaca and buying a pair of fatigue shorts, which just seemed like I might as well have been Che Guevara at that point. As far as I was concerned, I was a dangerous leftist.

[Sean Cole]

Did you, at any point during this, find yourself in the following argument where you would Say I've never had a hamburger. And somebody would insist, oh, you must have had meat at some point. And then you had to argue your side.

[Dale Sakovich]

Yeah, definitely. It wasn't pretty. And of course I had grown up. I mean, just to put this in context for a second, if you don't mind, I mean, not only had I had hundreds of hamburgers and gone to the McDonald's drive through hundreds of times, but the counterpoint situation that I always think about when I remember this time is that when I was a senior in high school, my family, for sort of time saving reasons, decided that.

[Sean Cole]

A.

[Dale Sakovich]

Great thing to do would be to go to Arby's roast beef. I don't know if you have those out in Chicago. I think they're countrywide. So my dad and I would go to Arby's on say like a Thursday afternoon or something or after I got out of school, and we would go in there and we would buy 48 Arby's Roast Beef sandwiches and they would put them in this cardboard box and we bring home, we would bring home this, this giant box full of those tin foil covered Arby's roast beef sandwiches and we would stuff them in our refrigerator, in our freezer. We would freeze the Arby's roast beef sandwiches and then we would have them there.

[Sean Cole]

Buns and all.

[Dale Sakovich]

Buns and all. Yeah. And so we would have them there as ready made snacks whenever we might want one. And that's the kind of meat eating that my family was engaged to.

[Joel Lovell]

The other thing was that I had these run ins with doubting my British identity. Like, oh, really? Yeah, as though it were slipping away. And I would really go nuts at that point. And you know, there was one time, you know, there was one time it would happen at home. I was like, at home. And I was like, oh my God. I just, you know, I have to do something. I have to affirm my devotion, you know, So I think I. Well, I know I opened up the window and I psyched myself to do it. I was like, oh man, if I don't do this, like, it won't come back. And I open up the window and then I, and I, like, I screamed, this is the middle of the night, or, you know, 10 at night. I screamed I love England outside the. And of course in a British accent, outside the window.

[Sean Cole]

And then you felt better. You felt like you had reasserted yourself.

[Joel Lovell]

I felt like I had done something.

[Sean Cole]

At least for England.

[Joel Lovell]

Yeah, I had fortified my, my Britishness.

[Dale Sakovich]

I would find myself in these, in these Conversations where people were saying, you know, you've never had a McDonald's hamburger. What kind of American, 18 year old American has never had a hamburger from McDonald's?

[Sean Cole]

Quite a legitimate question, I would add.

[Dale Sakovich]

Absolutely, absolutely. And I would say, yeah, you know, I've just never had one. They scare me. And I would sort of like talk about the ways, and I would make up these stories about how I'd come close a couple of times, how my friend, a friend of mine in high school had bought me a Big Mac. And there I was sitting on the front seat of his car and I almost ate it and then couldn't bring myself to do it. And so, yeah, there was all the sort of drama that I, that I lied about. My mom and dad came down to. Came down to visit for parents weekend and they were really proud that I was going there and really excited to come down. And they came down to visit and.

[Sean Cole]

Really proud because you were the first generation to go to college. You made it into this Ivy League school. It was a big, big deal.

[Dale Sakovich]

Right? Exactly, exactly. And so they drove down from Camillus, which is about an hour and between an hour and an hour and a half they came down and in that week leading up to parents weekend, everybody's talking about their parents coming and everybody's making reservations at restaurants, you know, where to eat on Saturday night. And everybody's sort of planning on taking their parents to the football game on, you know, Saturday during the day. And it suddenly occurred to me, this real sort of panic set in that, you know, that my parents would come down and we would go to a football game and my dad would buy a hot dog and you know, and somebody across the field would see Mr. Lovell eating a hot dog. And you know, and then of course the cat would be out of the bag. And so I thought, you know, I've got to make a. I've got to make a reservation at a restaurant at some place either a. Where nobody else's parents will be, or at. Or at a vegetarian restaurant. And so what I did was, was make a reservation at the Moosewood restaurant, which is in Ithaca. And you know, there's the Moosewood cookbooks that are out and.

[Sean Cole]

Vegetarian cookbooks.

[Dale Sakovich]

Exactly. Yeah. And it's this nice little vegetarian restaurant in Ithaca and a slightly famous place. But then we got there and you know, I remember sitting down at the table in the Moosewood and you know, the, the bowls are these kind of carved wooden bowls and I mean, everything about it feels like. Well, you know, like a vegetarian Restaurant.

[Sean Cole]

And not just a vegetarian restaurant, but kind of a cartoon of a vegetarian restaurant.

[Dale Sakovich]

Exactly, exactly. And, you know, and I was looking at my parents across the table, and they were sort of dressed up and they were excited to be coming down. And, you know, and I could tell, like, my dad was sitting there and sort of perusing the menu and thinking, well, you know, I'll. You know, maybe this lentil salad will be good or whatever. And I could tell he was sitting there thinking, you know, geez, I just drove an hour and a half. All I want is a steak and a baked potato and a beer, you know, and there I was, bringing them here. But they were so game about it. They were so sort of willing to go along with it because for some reason they thought I really wanted to bring them there. And I just thought, geez, you know, these people, my parents, you know, have really, like, given up a lot for me to come there. I mean, financially, they were really stretching themselves, and we were taking out all sorts of loans, you know, all of those things that people do in order to go to college. And, you know, they never complained once about doing it. And they, you know, they just wanted to come down and see me there and feel proud that I was there. And I was sort of hiding them out in this vegetarian restaurant, and I felt so bad about it afterwards. And they never once complained, and they went home. And I imagine. I sort of imagined them, you know, stopping at a Hardee's just outside of Ithaca and getting a burger as soon as they say goodbye. But, you know, after that, I just thought, geez, you know, I've gotta. I gotta find some way to come clean about this.

[Sean Cole]

I mean, is it okay if your child decides to express himself in an alternate personality for a period of two years?

[Joel Lovell]

I think there's. That's funny. I never thought I would say this, but I think there's nothing wrong with that. I never thought I would say it because I think. Because I wish that I hadn't done it now, but I don't know, maybe I learned something from doing it. I mean, I think that that is, you know, par for the course. Like, that's part of now. I think that's part of growing up.

[Dale Sakovich]

I think it was. It was probably necessary for me at that, at that time in my life.

[Sean Cole]

Because it gave you more confidence.

[Dale Sakovich]

Yeah. And there was. There was some bridge that this, you know, that this allowed me to cross.

[Sean Cole]

Joe Lovell and Sean Cole. Joe Leavell is the executive editor of a podcast company called Pineapple Street Media. And an actual vegetarian these days.

[Joel Lovell]

Sean Cole works in public radio.

[Sean Cole]

Indeed he does. He's one of the producers of our program.

[Shalom Auslander]

That piece of meat on your plate buying was murder.

[Marge]

Eating in this rain.

[Shalom Auslander]

Think about your act.

[Marge]

Makes me feel under the weather. Bet you wouldn't care if it came out in feathers. Bet you wouldn't care if it came out in feathers.

[Joel Lovell]

You're such a psycho.

[Sean Cole]

Act two, conning the con men. The American legal system, for the most part, does not uphold the principle of eye for an eye. If you steal somebody's car, the judge does not steal your car. In return, if they catch you selling weed, they do not sell weed to you as your punishment. But if you're in the business of running scams, authorities catch you by running a scam on you. This is the story of a con man who made millions by fooling people over the phone until he was the one who got fooled. Nancy Updike reports.

[Marge]

The guy's name is David Diamond. That's his actual name. He was one of the most successful salesmen in one of the longest running telemarketing scams in Los Angeles history.

[Nancy Updike]

David diamond was a salesman at a boiler room.

[Marge]

This is Dale Sakovich. He's been a Federal Trade commission investigator for 29 years. He's the one who busted Diamond.

[Nancy Updike]

He was living in a very expensive home up in the hills in Woodland Hills. He drove a custom Porsche Carrera that he had shipped over here by airplane from Germany from the factory. They lived very high on the hog.

[Marge]

David diamond was just one of a whole bunch of guys making money hand over fist in an operation in Southern California that was basically running the same scam over and over under different names for seven years. It was an investment scheme. Give us your money and we'll put it into this great 900 number business or this online shopping network or this hot new Internet service provider. Needless to say, no one ever made a dime except the people running the Scam, who cleared $40 million. Since diamond was one of the operations top salesmen, he made $2 million in commissions in just four years on the job. He got 30% of whatever he talked a person into investing. That means he personally conned people out of more than $6 million. The FTC caught diamond and the others in the operation essentially by conning the con men. They had volunteers pose as dupes and record their phone calls because the FTC brought a case against the operation diamond worked in. Some of those recordings are now part of the public record. I got Dale Sakovich to Listen to the tapes with me and talk about David diamond and the FBI volunteer who caught him.

[Nancy Updike]

The woman on the tape, I can't tell you her real name, but she uses the alias of Marge. She assumed the identity of a person who is named Marge. Marge was a real person who we in law enforcement and who people in the telemarketing business refer to as a mooch. A mooch is someone who will essentially buy anything from anybody who calls her on the telephone. And in fact, she did. Over a number of years, she spent hundreds of thousands of dollars.

[Marge]

The real Marge.

[Nancy Updike]

The real Marge spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on bogus prize promotions, investments, gold coins, you name it. So the FBI went to Marge and said, we really think that we need to take your telephone number away from you because it's being used to ruin your life. So once Marge agreed to that, her telephone number was installed in the home of an FBI volunteer. And that volunteer, every time that phone line rang, the Marge line, that volunteer would pick up that telephone and answer it and pose as Marge.

[David Diamond]

Marge.

[Marge]

Yes.

[David Diamond]

David Diamond. How are you?

[Marge]

Oh, I'm okay. It's kind of warm here.

[David Diamond]

Yeah. I sent you off a video and a package.

[Marge]

Yes, I have it.

[David Diamond]

Okay. The video is with regard to Mark Erickson. Mark Erickson is the person who is heading up the program.

[Marge]

Yes.

[David Diamond]

And he is very successful in taking upstart companies and making them successful. You've probably heard of Hard Copy. He's an original producer of Hard Copy.

[Marge]

I've heard of it, yes. You're smiling as you listen to this. What are you smiling about?

[Nancy Updike]

Well, I'm smiling because it's been a while since I've heard Marge, and she sounds so old and so fragile and such an easy mark, when in fact she's this sharp FBI informant. She doesn't look as old as she sounds, trust me. So that's one aspect of it. The other aspect is this whole Mark Erickson thing.

[Marge]

Yeah. Is he a real person?

[Nancy Updike]

Mark Erikson is a real person. He was named in our lawsuit.

[Marge]

And was he an original producer of Hard Copy?

[Nancy Updike]

No, he was a segment producer and on the air reporter for Hard Copy for a brief period of time.

[Marge]

And I mean, is this sort of typical of the cons in the tapes that you've heard, that they'll try to associate what they're selling with a legitimate business or organization or television show? Something that people have heard of?

[Nancy Updike]

Exactly. They want to make this. Yeah. Something people can relate to.

[David Diamond]

Here's the thing. You have to invest everything you've Got or do nothing at all. And I'll say that again. You should invest everything you have. You should transfer all of your investment into this program or do nothing. It doesn't make sense to do just a little bit. You should think about doing a million dollars in this program.

[Dale Sakovich]

Oh, I don't know.

[Marge]

That's a lot of money.

[David Diamond]

You need to liquidate every nickel you've got. You either want to be in this situation, you either want to be in a situation wholeheartedly and upgrade your investments, or you don't. My suggestion is just do the whole thing.

[Marge]

Well, I would never liquidate everything I have.

[David Diamond]

My question is, why not?

[Marge]

Because there's always gambles and anything like this.

[David Diamond]

Anything like what?

[Marge]

Well, any investment like this.

[David Diamond]

Like this. What does that mean?

[Marge]

Well, anything you invest in, there's always a gamble. Now, I want to ask you. You told me once that you thought he sounded nervous on this tape. And in this part where she's saying, you know, an investment like this and he's sort of, you know, questioning her. Well, what do you mean, like this? I wonder is, do you have any sense that he's suspicious that she might know what he's up to? I mean, do they know that volunteers are out there trying to trap them, posing as dupes?

[Nancy Updike]

No. Since we talked about this tape last, I actually sort of had a revelation that came to me as to why I listened to over 40 individual tapes of David diamond, conversations with Marge and conversations with others over the course of about a year. And one of the things, when you've listened to all of them, you find that David, in sort of the early. The earlier part of that year was much more kind of sweet and cautious and trying to bond with these women and patient and sometimes would spend an hour on the phone with them. The tape would be an hour long. But this tape was made towards the very end of that year, period, probably within a week or two of our raid. Having gone in on the raid and searched David Diamond's desk that day, I came to realize that David diamond was starting to question whether he wanted to do this anymore. He was starting to really have some concerns about moral concerns, moral concerns about what they were doing. And I believe that in these last couple of weeks that. And it's kind of shown in this tape, he was becoming a little bit desperate. He wanted to make a couple of more big hits. And he just couldn't figure out why this woman wasn't going to write him a check. So he started getting frustrated. And it comes out in his voice.

[Marge]

What evidence did you see that he was starting to have, you know, moral qualms about what he was doing?

[Nancy Updike]

David had become born again. There were religious tracts all over his.

[Marge]

Office and posters on his wall just recently.

[Nancy Updike]

I don't know exactly what the timeframe was. We do know that he had given a lot of the money that he had made to his church. And we believe that a lot of that was sort of a self imposed penance that he could justify what he was doing because he was giving was tithing, this money that he was taking from these poor victims into his church.

[David Diamond]

If $30,000 is what you made on every $5,000 and you put $50,000 in this program, that's $300,000 return. That's why I'm telling you you need to do a million dollars in this program.

[Marge]

I don't know. I would never put that much in. In any program.

[David Diamond]

Do you have an obligation to yourself as an investor to make the most amount of money possible?

[Marge]

Well, you know, at my age, it's really not that. What do I want to say? I have enough to live on for the rest of my life.

[David Diamond]

I understand, but is it still in your best interest to make the most amount of money possible if you can find it as safely as possible?

[Marge]

It's my obligation not to lose what I have.

[David Diamond]

Correct, but it's also your obligation to keep your money working for otherwise, what's the point?

[Marge]

When I heard this part of the tape, even though I knew that this woman, this particular woman was not getting conned, that she was in fact conning him and trapping him, I started to get so angry because I was thinking, you know, he is really trying to take all of this old woman's money, all of it. She's saying, I have enough to live on. He's saying, you have an obligation to make more. Do you ever hear things like that and just get angry, even though you know that she's sort of in on the con, on the joke?

[Nancy Updike]

Every time I hear these pitches, I'm outraged because I am the person that spoke to people who really did send David diamond tens of thousands of dollars that consisted of their life savings and now don't have any money to even buy groceries. I've interviewed them, I seen them sob. Yeah, it makes me very angry.

[Marge]

And what sort of recourse do they have?

[Nancy Updike]

Slim and none. Slim and none.

[David Diamond]

We have public companies that want to take you public. So if you've got a public company that passed judgment on, it's not even me talking anymore. If Mark Erickson wants to. To do business with you. It's not even me talking anymore. You have the ability to make an absolute fortune, and it doesn't make sense not to have every nickel you've got in this particular program. That's why I said it's an emergency investment situation, and you should do at least 50 to 100. 150 units while you have the opportunity.

[Nancy Updike]

Mm.

[Marge]

Well, how much are you investing in this?

[David Diamond]

I'm not investing anything in this.

[Marge]

Uh huh.

[David Diamond]

My investment comes in the time they put with my clients.

[Marge]

Yes, right.

[David Diamond]

And the fact that when they make money, they reinvest with me.

[Marge]

Right.

[David Diamond]

That's the whole point.

[Marge]

You were smiling again when she said, how much are you investing? I mean, is she just screwing around with him?

[Nancy Updike]

Of course she's playing with him. Yeah, I mean, she's. She's trained to ask him those kinds of questions so that he responds with a misrepresentation.

[Marge]

But that doesn't sound like it's part of the script. That just sounds like her. I mean, her being mean in sort of a. Sort of a delicious way.

[Nancy Updike]

Well, no, I think what we were trying to do, or her handler was trying to do was get her to make. To get him to say, oh, yeah, I'm in it, and I've got my mother and my grandmother in it, and. And I'm putting away money for my child's education with it, because then we could show later that he hadn't.

[Marge]

Did you ever talk to Marge about what it's like to do this? Do they ever. I mean, do they ever sort of have fun just thinking, you know, I'm just turning the tables on this guy. He has no idea.

[Nancy Updike]

I wish I could answer the question. I've never spoken to them. I would. I'd love to get the answer to that myself. I'd like to ask that question myself. I think they get a lot of personal satisfaction, though.

[Marge]

How often do you get a chance to catch a bad guy as just a regular civilian?

[Nancy Updike]

Yeah, exactly. You know, I do it too. I tape people using an alias in cases that I work.

[Marge]

And is it fun?

[Nancy Updike]

I love it. I love to get these people to tell me stuff. It's, you know, it's like acting. There's a rush.

[Marge]

The rush of a con. The pleasure of it is knowing that you have more power than the person you're conning. You know, more. You know, that it's a con. And let's face it, given the choice between being the mark and being the con man, nobody's going to choose to be the mark. But the problem is the more confidence you have in your own con, the more easily you become a mark yourself. Con men get taken by other conmen all the time. There just seems to be something about the particular arrogance of always being on the knowing side of the con that makes for a really, really good mark.

[Sean Cole]

Nancy Update is one of the producers of our program in the years since we first broadcast this episode. Today's show is a rerun. Dale Secovich, the FTC investigator who busted David diamond, has died. Coming up, a child tries to fix his own family by harnessing the most powerful force that exists anywhere. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

[Ira Glass]

Support for this American life comes from BetterHelp. It's important to take time to show gratitude towards others, but it's equally important to thank yourself. Life throws a lot of curveballs and being grateful isn't always easy. Therapy can help remind you of all that you're worthy of and all that you do have. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. [e-mail] Tal today to get 10% off your first month. Support for this American Life comes from Capella University. Learning doesn't have to get in the way of life. With Capella's game changing flexpath learning format, you can set your own deadlines and learn on your own schedule. That means you don't have to put your life on hold to earn your degree. Instead, enjoy learning your way and pursue your educational and career goals without missing a beat. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn [e-mail].

[Sean Cole]

This is American Life. Myra Glass, each week on our program, of course, we choose a theme, bring you a variety of different kinds of stories on that theme. Today's show, hoaxing yourself. Stories of people who are fooling themselves. Sometimes that is a side effect of trying to fool others. Sometimes they just don't know better and pin their hopes and beliefs on something that is simply not true at all. We've arrived at Act 3 of our show. Act 3. Oedipus Hex. Sholom Auslander tells this story which happened to him when he was a boy in one of those ultra orthodox Jewish religious schools called yeshivas. I warned listeners that although this story is about a little boy, in the story the dad is not so nice to his kids, which might not be a thing that little kids will enjoy hearing at all. So take that under advisement. Here's Shalom.

[Shalom Auslander]

Rabbi Breyer walked into our third grade classroom, hung up his long black coat, took off his big black hat, and handed each student a small black booklet entitled the Guide to Blessings. We had one week. He told us to prepare for the annual Yeshiva of Spring Valley. Blessing be. My heart leapt. This was just what my mother needed. The blessing be would make her forget all the troubles of our home. To have a son who's a Talmud chacham, a wise student. That was the ultimate. Her brother was a respected rabbi, and if her husband couldn't be one, well, maybe her son could be. The Guide to Blessings was a 70 page long listing of hundreds of different foods. Soups, breads, fish, desserts. I flipped through it slowly, realizing the size of the challenge that lay ahead. Falafel, herring, eggplant, parmesan. I had my work cut out for me. Friday afternoons, the yeshiva closed early so that we could all rush home to help our parents prepare for Shabbos, the Sabbath. Rabbi Breyer told us that. The sages tell us that. The Torah tells us that the preparation for Shabbos is equal to the importance of Shabbos itself. Most of my preparations involved searching the house for kosher wine and pouring it down the toilet. It was a thankless job, I admitted to nobody. My father's frustrated rage at not having his Manischewitz Concord grape was fearsome. But it was far better than his drunken rage if he did have it. I'd searched the pantry, I'd searched the garage, I'd searched my father's closet. But I was only 8 years old, and there was always a bottle of Kedem hiding somewhere I just hadn't thought to check. That night, my father, drunk on a bottle of Blush Chablis that got away, grabbed my older brother by his shirt collar and dragged him away from the Shabbos table. He dragged him all the way down the stairs to our bedroom in the basement and slammed the door shut. Even the silverware jumped. Who wants the Latzmatza ball? My mother asked. I made extra. When my brother returned to the table, his nose was bleeding. My mother brought him a can of frozen orange juice to hold against the back of his neck, which was supposed to somehow stop the bleeding. Rabbi Breyer taught us that it is prohibited to defrost orange juice on Shabbos because changing food from solid to liquid is considered cooking, and cooking is considered working. And even God refrained from working on shabbos. There are 39 different categories of work that are prohibited on Shabbos. That's also why you're not allowed to switch on lights on Shabbos the electricity causes the filament to glow, which is considered burning, which is considered working. Category number two. My father came back to the table and drunkenly sang a few Shabbos songs, fudging the words and banging heavily on the table with his fist. I sat hunched over, absentmindedly, drawing circles on the condensation that had formed on the silver water pitcher. My father slapped my hand. Shabbos. He shouted, writing category number five. Eventually he stumbled off to his bedroom and fell asleep, snoring loudly. We sat in the dining room and picked glumly at our food. The following Monday morning, as we all sat studying from our blessing books, there was a knock on Rabbi Breyer's classroom door, and Rabbi Greenbaum, the yeshiva principal, solemnly entered. We all rose. The two rabbis conferred quietly for a moment before signaling us all to be seated. After a few thoughtful strokes of his long black beard, Rabbi Greenbaum sighed deeply and and informed us that the night before, our classmate Avrami Grunenbaum's father had suffered a heart attack and died. Some kids have all the luck. Blessed is the one true judge, said Rabbi Breyer, nodding his head. Blessed is the one true Judge, we all answered, nodding our heads. I wondered what Mr. Grunenbaum might have done to deserve death. Did he bow down to idols? Did he walk four steps without his yarmulke on? Whatever it was, it must have been pretty bad. As Rabbi Greenbaum turned to leave, he paused and with a stern shake of his finger, reminded us all that the sages tell us that the Torah tells us that until the age of 13, all of a boy's sins are ascribed to his father. I turned to look at Avrami's empty chair. Avrami was a chubby kid with heavy orthodontia and foul breath, but a sudden respect for him grew inside me. I wondered what he might have done to cause his father's death. Whatever it was, it must have been pretty bad. Scowling fiercely, Rabbi Greenbaum advised each and every one of us to pray to Hashem, the Holy One. Blessed be he for forgiveness, so that he wouldn't kill our fathers too. My heart le Blessed is Hashem, he said. Blessed is Hashem, we answered. Blessed is Hashem was right. All of a sudden I had two ways I could save my family. I could win the blessing be for my mother, or I could sin so much Hashem would have to kill my father. Courageous Avrami. Guru Nanbao. Maybe one Shabbos night he had switched on a light. Maybe he drank milk after eating meat. Maybe he touched himself. That night, just before bed, I ate a drumstick, washed it down with some milk, touched myself and flicked the bedroom light on and off. Break those lights and I'll break your hands. My father shouted. It was going to be a busy week. The blessing bee worked the same way as a spelling bee. There are six basic blessings on Hamotzi the blessing for bread. Mizonos, the blessing for wheat. Hagephen, the blessing for wine or grape juice. Haitz, the blessing for things that grow from trees. Hadama, the blessing for things that grow from the earth and the blessing for everything else. Bagel, hamotsi, oatmeal, Mizonos, gefilte fish. The blessing for everything else. But that was the easy part. Things became much more complicated when you started combining foods. Some foods are superior to other foods, and in combination with subordinate foods, the superior food gets the blessing. To make matters worse, some blessings are superior to other blessings, and you had to know which blessing to recite first. This is where they separated the men from the goys. Spaghetti and meatballs. Mizonos, the wheat blessing, then Shahako, the everything else blessing. Cereal with milk. Shahako for the milk, then Mizonos for the wheat and the cereal. Twix, the chocolate candy with the cookie crunch. Trick question. Twix isn't kosher. I spent the next week sinning and blessing and blessing and sinning, alternately praising God and then defying him as much as 1-8-year-old possibly could. Monday morning I stuffed myself. I had a bowl of Fruity Pebbles, Mizonos, a slice of toast, a glass of juice, half an apple, and a couple of old French fries I found at the bottom of the fridge. Hadama One meal, five blessings. Tuesday I touched myself. I also partook of bread without first ceremoniously washing my hands. And that evening before going to sleep, I sat on the edge of my bed and carefully recited and ass a dozen times each. My father banged angrily on my bedroom door. Lights out. He barked. I smiled. For you and me both, pal. Wednesday I stole $5 from my mother and didn't recite any blessings at all on the bag full of candy that I bought with it. A Charleston Chew, which is trafe to begin with, and a Chunky, which would have been a Chahakol if I weren't trying to kill my father. A Chunky with raisins. Shahako Ben Haitz. Thursday I didn't wear Tzitzit. Rabbi Breyer noticed that the string strings weren't dangling from my sides and grabbed me by the ear and pulled me to the front of the class. Speak to the children of Israel, he quoted loudly from the Torah as he spanked me hard on my bottom and tell them to make tzitzit on the corners of their garments. That afternoon, after not respecting my elders by taking out the garbage like my mother had told me to, I touched myself and silently begged God to just this once credit those sins to Rabbi Breyer's account. Later, I defiled a prayer book by carrying it into the bathroom. The blessing be was the following morning, and I could barely sleep. Lentil soup, mizonos, potato, knish, hadama root, beer. Is it a root? Is it a beer? Ass. I tossed and turned, I blessed and cursed, and finally I fell into an uncomfortable sleep. After a week at home, Avrami Grunebaum conveniently returned to school just in time for the blessing be it was all I could do to not lean over and ask him how he did it.

[Dale Sakovich]

Psst.

[Shalom Auslander]

Avrami, tell me, was it lobster? Did you eat lobster? Rabbi Breyer told us that. The sages tell us that. The Torah tells us that when Abraham died, Hashem comforted Isaac. We learned from this that it is a tremendous mitzvah, or good deed to comfort the bereaved. Rabbi Breyer instructed us all to line up at Avrami's desk to shake his hand and recite the traditional mourner's may Hashem comfort you among the mourners of Zion. Being just eight years old, I wasn't entirely familiar with Hashem's system. But it occurred to me that along with all my sins, my father might also be getting all my mitzvahs. I wasn't taking any chances. Soon it was my turn in line. How's it going? I said to Avrami. Rabbi Breyer pinched me. Ow. I screamed. Shmendrik. He grumbled. After the last boy had asked Hashem to comfort Avrami among the mourners of Zion, Rabbi Breyer smacked his desk loudly. The blessing be began. We lined up at the back of the classroom, not nervously pulling on our tzitzis and twirling our pais. The rules were simple. Name the correct blessing and remain standing for the next round. Name the wrong blessing and you take your seat. Last year's winner, Yucca Seal, Zalman Yehudashneck, stood beside me. He leaned calmly against the wall, mindlessly picking his nose. Auslander Shalom. Called out Rabbi Breyer. I stepped forward. Apple. He shouted. Apple. I called out. Haitz. The blessing for food from Trees. Correct. Rabbi Breyer said. The blessing bee usually started off pretty easy. David Borden got tuna shahakol, the everything else blessing. Ari Mashinsky got matzah hamotsi, the blessing for bread. And Avi Tuchman got stuck with kugel, which he thought was adamant food from the earth but was really mizonos, the blessing on wheat. Three other kids got taken out by oatmeal. Borscht with sour cream claimed two others, and by the end of the first round, almost a third of the students were already back in their seats. Round 2. Auslanders Shalom. Called Rabbi Breyer. I stepped forward. Mushroom barley soup. He shouted. Mushroom barley soup. Mushroom barley soup. Damn. I knew I should have studied the chapter on soups more. I'd wasted half the week on entrees. Was it hadama on the mushrooms which came from the earth? Or was it mizonos on the barley? Maybe it was shahakol, the everything else blessing on the soup. Mushroom barley soup. I called out. Mizonos. Rabbi Briar tugged on his beard, his eyes narrowing into angry little slits. And shahako, I added. Rabbi Breyer triumphantly smacked his desk, signaling that I was correct. Apple strudel took out David Borgan, Joel Levine, and Shlomo Pomerantz. My friend Mutti Greenberg got stuck with cheesecake, and I could tell just by the expression on his face that he had absolutely no idea. He wisely offered two answers, one for thin crust and one for thick, and somehow managed to stay alive. It was hard to believe this was only round two. Avrami stepped forward. I smiled at Muti. Avromi may have killed his father, but he wasn't very bright, and he never did well at these things. He was lucky to even be in the second round at all. Bagel. Shouted Rabbi Breyer. Bagel. I looked at Muti in disbelief. Was he kidding? Bagel. Bagel. Called out. Avrami. Hamotsi. This was bull. Correct. Shouted Rabbi Breyer. Very good. Ephraim Greenblatt, Avrami Epstein, and Joel Frankel all got out on chalant with barley and large pieces of meat, while chopped liver enchalah with a slice of lettuce and a bit of olive, took out four more, including Mutti. And then there were three. It was just Yuccasiel, Zalman, Yehuda Schneck, Avrami, Grunenbaum, and me. Round three, began. Auslander Shalom. Called out Rabbi Breyer. I stepped forward. I scream. Shouted Rabbi Breyer. In a cone ice cream. In a cone ice cream. In a cone, I knew. Ice cream. But why would he add the cone? Was there something different if it was in a cone? What was an ice cream cone made of anyway? Was it cake? Was it a wafer? Ice cream in a cone. Rabbi Breyer shouted. Is the ice cream subordinate to the cone, or is it the cone subordinate to the ice cream? If it's a sugar cone, maybe you really desire the cone. Ice cream in a cone. Rabbi Breyer shouted again. I had no choice. Ice cream in a cone. I called out. No blessing. Everyone in the classroom turned to face me. Looking back on the whole episode, Rabbi Breyer had really left me no choice. No blessing, said Rabbi Breyer. Why no blessing? Because, I explained, nervously twirling my tzitzis. Because. Because the room smells like duty. There was a long silence. Mati giggled and others followed. Rabbi Breyer slowly rose to his feet, his thick fists pushing themselves into the desktop. It may have been a loophole, but technically speaking, I was correct. Rabbi Breyer himself had told us that. Our sages tell us that. The Torah tells us that there are three situations in which one is absolutely prohibited from reciting a blessing one while facing a male over the age of nine years old whose genitals are showing, two while facing a female over the age of three years old whose genitals are showing and three in the presence of feces. Frankly, given the other two options, I think I chose the least offensive answer for a big man. Rabbi Breyer moved pretty quickly. It's true, I said as he barreled toward me. The Torah says that he grabbed me roughly by my arm, lifting me clear off the ground, and dragged me towards the door, shouting angrily in Yiddish the whole time. But it smells like duty. I yelled. The room smells like duty. Wait. There's a naked girl in the room. There's a naked girl. The door slammed shut behind me. I stood in the hallway and rubbed my bruised arm. I began to cry. The blessing be was lost. I was not a great rabbi, and my father was still not dead. I tiptoed toward the classroom door and listened closely. Two minutes later, Yuccasiah Zalman Yehuda Schneck fell victim to matzo braai with maple syrup, and the last man standing was Avromi Grunenbaum. Apples. Called out Rabbi Breyer. Apples. Avrami answered. Haitz. Mazel tov. Quote, called out Rabbi Breuer. Mazel tov. Total bull. That night we had the traditional Friday night gefilte fish with a little slice of carrot ha Dhamma. My father was drunk again, singing shaba songs, fudging the words and banging heavily on the table with his fist. My mother went into the kitchen and brought out the soup. When my brother said he didn't want any, my father slapped him, pushed him over backward onto the floor, and poured the hot chicken soup onto his face. My mother took my brother into the bathroom and sat with him on the edge of the bathtub, pressing a cold washcloth against his cheeks, and I went back to the dining room to wipe the chicken soup off the floor. Chicken soup is a chehako, even if it is cooked with vegetables, since chicken is the dominant taste in the soup. Rabbi Breyer told us that the sages tell us that the Torah tells us that the Holy One, blessed be he, sent the Egyptians 10 plagues in order to teach us that he gives people many chances to repent, and only then, if they still continue to sin, does he punish them with death. I went downstairs to my bedroom, took four steps without my yarmulke on, touched myself, flicked the lights off and on, and fell asleep.

[Sean Cole]

Shalom Aslender he's the author of many great books. This story appears in his memoir, Foreskin's Lament. His most recent book is called A Memoir.

[Shalom Auslander]

Well, I went and lost her to the great imposter. I stood and watched her fall. Couldn't help her at all.

[Sean Cole]

Our program is produced today by me and Blue Chevany with Alex Bloomberg, Susan Burton and Julie Snyder. Our contributing editors for today's show, Paul Tough, Jack Hitt, Margie Rotkin, Elise Spiegel and Consul Yuri Sarah Val. Mixing up to by Jared Floyd and Katherine Raimondo Production help on today's rerun from Matt Tierney and Henry Larson. This American Life is distributed by prx, the public radio Exchange. Special thanks today to all of our new this American Life partners. If you heard me talking about this, it is the subscription version of our program where you get the program ad free. You get bonus content, you get access to a greatest hits archive with over 250 favorite episodes right in your podcast Fe like right below the newest shows and you help us keep going and keep strong. If you've been thinking about signing up the place to do it thisamericanlife.org LifePartners thanks always to our program's co founder, Ms. Tori Malatia, who is not jealous at all of the fact that this American Life staff get to tape interviews all the time.

[Nancy Updike]

You know I do it too. I tape people using an alias.

[Sean Cole]

I'm Eric Glass, back next week with more stories of this American Life.

[Joel Lovell]

All her friends, they just watch her.

[Shalom Auslander]

For they know the great imposter and.

[Joel Lovell]

She'S soon to join the roster for they know the great imposter and she's soon to join the roster for they know the great imposter.

[Sean Cole]

Next week on the podcast of this American Life. Everybody knows, depressingly, that we live in a country that is profoundly split and the two sides live in two different realities, don't agree on the basic facts about election fraud, climate change, the COVID vaccine, so many things and nobody seems able to bridge the gap. So I was fascinated to hear about somebody, a news source I bet you have not heard of that does exactly that. Next week on the podcast on your local public radio station.

[Dale Sakovich]

This message comes from Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more.