852: Pivot Point

Summary

This American Life: Episode 852 - "Pivot Point"

Release Date: January 19, 2025
Host: Ira Glass
Produced in collaboration with WBEZ Chicago

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Introduction: Embracing Moments of Change

In this episode of This American Life, host Ira Glass explores the concept of "Pivot Points"—critical moments where individuals find themselves at the crossroads of significant change. Through a tapestry of personal stories and insightful interviews, the episode delves into how people navigate uncertainty, make pivotal decisions, and adapt to new realities.

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Act 1: A Narrow Escape - Kirk Johnson's Evacuation During the LA Fires

Timestamp: 00:35 - 04:40

The episode opens with the harrowing account of Kirk Johnson and his wife MJ, who were forced to evacuate their home in Los Angeles due to raging wildfires. With flames threatening their backyard, they hurriedly packed their belongings, including their two young children and family cat, and hit the road amidst chaos.

Notable Moments:

• Kirk's Recording Decision: Facing imminent danger, Kirk began recording his children to capture the gravity of the moment.
  “Well, sometimes you choose poorly. These kind of moments when you feel the earth shifting underneath you and you just have to figure out what you're going to do in this new reality.” — Ira Glass [03:00]

• Reflecting on Past Experiences: Kirk, a veteran with experience in the Iraq War, shares his attempt to stay composed during the crisis, highlighting his realization of perceived inadequacies in handling the situation.
  “The moral of that story is like sometimes you choose poorly.” — Ira Glass [03:50]

This personal crisis illustrates the sudden and often overwhelming nature of pivot points, emphasizing the emotional and practical challenges faced during such transitions.

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Act 2: Art Imitates Chaos - An Interview with Armando Iannucci

Timestamp: 07:16 - 58:31

Producer Nancy Updike recounts her interview with British comedy writer and director Armando Iannucci, known for his works like Veep, The Death of Stalin, and In the Loop. The conversation provides a deep dive into how Iannucci channels societal fears and catastrophic events into his darkly comedic narratives.

Key Highlights:

• The Bloody Nose Incident:
  “It was a rolling series of bloody noses or one big one that had many phases...” — Nancy Updike [07:16]
  Nancy describes an uncomfortable and messy moment before her interview with Iannucci, setting the stage for discussing awkward and crisis-driven humor in his work.

• Dr. Strangelove Reimagined:
  Iannucci discusses his stage adaptation of Stanley Kubrick's Dr. Strangelove, reflecting on how the themes of imminent disaster and political absurdity resonate with contemporary anxieties.
  “It's all about the truth, you know, it's the truth of what people really felt at the time...” — Armando Iannucci [14:12]

• Comedy as a Coping Mechanism:
  Iannucci emphasizes the role of comedy in processing dread and fear, allowing audiences to engage with terrifying subjects in a more approachable manner.
  “Comedy just allows you to open up your mind a bit...” — Armando Iannucci [18:00]

• Balancing Humor and Tragedy:
  The conversation touches on maintaining a delicate balance between humor and respect for tragic events, as seen in The Death of Stalin.
  “We're making the comedy comes from those inside the Kremlin...” — Armando Iannucci [19:04]

Iannucci's insights reveal how pivot points in societal behavior and global events inspire artistic expressions that both entertain and provoke thought.

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Act 3: Uncertain Frontlines - Ukrainian Soldiers Face Policy Shifts

Timestamp: 26:27 - 58:31

Producer Valerie Kipnis explores the impact of potential shifts in U.S. policy toward Ukraine amidst the presidential transition. Through interviews with Ukrainian soldiers, the segment captures the anxiety and uncertainty experienced on the front lines as they await the outcome of elections that could alter their support and strategic options.

Notable Stories:

• Sergei's Dilemma:
  Sergei, a former vegan chef turned soldier, expresses his concerns about the future of U.S. aid to Ukraine.
  “Team looks like hobbits in a bunker. Hobbits with mortars.” — Nancy Updike [27:31]

• Vitaly's Vigilance:
  Vitaly, a drone operator, navigates his duties while grappling with the fluctuating support from the U.S. government.
  “I was sitting looking at a monitor, my phone next to it, just scrolling...” — Ira Glass [33:13]

• Artem's Reality Check:
  Artem, a volunteer fighter, confronts the harsh truths of war and the psychological impacts of leadership decisions.
  “Going to travel, going back to their normal civilian lives.” — Nancy Updike [37:25]

The segment underscores the fragility of geopolitical support and its direct consequences on individuals fighting on the ground, highlighting the human aspect of international policy decisions.

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Act 4: The Final Cycle - Navigating Menopause

Timestamp: 40:04 - 49:23

Act 3 transitions into a deeply personal narrative about menopause, narrated by a woman reflecting on her journey through perimenopause into full menopause. This story encapsulates a different kind of pivot point—one that is intimate and biological, yet universally relatable.

Key Points:

• Perimenopausal Transition:
  The narrator discusses the gradual changes leading up to menopause, including irregular periods and physical symptoms.
  “I felt startled by how quickly my face was changing...” — MJ [41:12]

• Embracing the Change:
  Through introspection, she confronts fears and misconceptions about menopause, ultimately finding acceptance and a sense of empowerment.
  “One full year. Is it too Pollyanna to say that I actually did feel the world opening up?” — MJ [48:30]

• Symbolic Stains:
  A poignant metaphor is drawn between an indelible stain from a period and the lasting memories of significant life moments.
  “I tried to manage my period, make it invisible, get rid of evidence now, this strange, possibly even repulsive kind of preservation.” — MJ [41:45]

This narrative highlights the personal transformation and resilience required to navigate bodily and emotional changes, showcasing menopause as a significant pivot point in a woman's life.

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Act 5: Community Amidst Crisis - Vanessa Prad's Mission During the Altadena Fires

Timestamp: 50:02 - 57:03

Producer Meeki Meek shares the inspiring story of Vanessa Prad, a nursing student who took it upon herself to help her community during the devastating Altadena fires. Facing barricades and widespread destruction, Vanessa used technology and initiative to provide vital information to evacuees about the status of their homes.

Highlights:

• Initiative and Compassion:
  Vanessa posted on a community Facebook page offering to take photographs of residents' homes, providing them with much-needed clarity amidst chaos.
  “Hello, everyone. Our home and family is all okay and safe...” — Kirk Johnson [50:25]

• Challenges and Persistence:
  Despite encountering numerous obstacles like blocked roads and destroyed landmarks, Vanessa and her father persevered to deliver crucial updates to over 40 families.
  “Less than half.” — Kirk Johnson [52:17]

• Emotional Impact:
  The emotional toll of informing families about the loss of their homes is evident as Vanessa describes her interactions with devastated residents.
  “What a beautiful home. I'm so sorry...” — Kirk Johnson [53:43]

Vanessa's story exemplifies community solidarity and the profound impact of individual efforts during collective crises, embodying the essence of a pivot point where personal initiative meets widespread need.

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Conclusion: The Power of Pivot Points

Throughout this episode, This American Life masterfully weaves together diverse narratives that illustrate the multifaceted nature of pivot points—be they personal crises, artistic endeavors, geopolitical shifts, or biological transitions. Each story underscores the resilience, adaptability, and profound human experiences that define these critical moments of change.

By featuring both global events and intimate personal journeys, the episode offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of how pivot points shape lives and communities, encouraging reflection on the inevitable changes that lie ahead.

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Notable Quotes

• “Sometimes you choose poorly. These kind of moments when you feel the earth shifting underneath you and you just have to figure out what you're going to do in this new reality.” — Ira Glass [03:00]

• “Comedy just allows you to open up your mind a bit...” — Armando Iannucci [18:00]

• “One full year. Is it too Pollyanna to say that I actually did feel the world opening up?” — MJ [48:30]

• “Less than half.” — Kirk Johnson [52:17]

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Final Thoughts

Episode 852 of This American Life, titled "Pivot Point," offers a compelling exploration of critical junctures in various contexts. Through rich storytelling and impactful interviews, it highlights the universal experience of facing and navigating significant change, making it a profoundly engaging and insightful listen.

For more detailed stories and to listen to the full episode, visit ThisAmericanLife.org.

Transcript

[Ira Glass]

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[Unknown Host]

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[Nancy Updike]

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[Unknown Host]

Get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership.

[Ira Glass]

When you sign up [e-mail] NPR.

[Unknown Host]

A quick warning.

[Ira Glass]

There are curse words that are unbeeped.

[Unknown Host]

In today's episode of the show.

[Ira Glass]

If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org when Kirk and his wife MJ evacuated their house in LA on the second day of the fires, they could see the flames up the hill from their backyard. They packed their car full, got their 7 and 8 year old kids inside with a family cat, hit the road and Kirk started recording. Okay, now I know it's scary.

[Kirk Johnson]

Did this happen when mommy or daddy was little?

[Ira Glass]

He records his kids a lot and just had a feeling like this is an important moment. We just turned on to like a.

[Kirk Johnson]

Song like by the Beatles.

[Ira Glass]

Sure.

[MJ]

Rock band.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, sure. Not like we're the Kings, because I.

[Kirk Johnson]

Don'T really want to listen to rock.

[Unknown Host]

Okay.

[Ira Glass]

But let me. Can I just say something? Can I say something? I don't really want to listen to rock music. When. When. Our house is gonna okay. Our house is okay, Our house is gonna. Kirk Johnson, he's been on our show before, talking about his experiences in the Iraq war, among other things. He thinks of himself as somebody who can usually handle a moment of crisis. But he admits he made mistakes in the car. He didn't bring the family tortoise, an animal he says his kids have ignored for over a year. He lives in a giant crate outside the house. In the car, he realized how upset his son August was about that. But they drove, looked at wind speeds and wind directions, made a guess about where it might be safe, booked a hotel, and things were feeling a little calmer in the car.

[Unknown Host]

Daddy, can you tell us one of.

[Ira Glass]

Your kids stories you haven't told us?

[MJ]

Yeah, that's a good idea.

[Kirk Johnson]

August.

[Ira Glass]

That's August asking Kirk to tell a story from his childhood, which he does sometimes. Kids, Kirk grew up with chickens, goats and animals. Okay. Did I ever tell you the story about. I think I did when my. When my horse got sick.

[Unknown Host]

No, you don't.

[Ira Glass]

I used to have a horse named Joe.

[Nancy Updike]

Yeah.

[Kirk Johnson]

What's this bitch's last name?

[Ira Glass]

Biden.

[Unknown Host]

Okay.

[Ira Glass]

Joe Biden.

[Kirk Johnson]

Joe Biden.

[Ira Glass]

Joe Biden, the horse. And Mamie and Gramps went to visit Uncle Soren in Russia, but they were far away, and they left me home alone. I was like 14 or 15. And one day I went down to check on Joe one morning before school, and he was. He was lying on the ground, like he was kneeling down, which is not a good sign for a horse. And I didn't know what to do. And so I went to school. And then I came back and I was really nervous, and Joe was still lying on the ground, and every. I was, like, trying to get him to eat food and stuff, and he wasn't eating anything. And so you know what I did? You know what my best idea was? I started digging a grave next to Joe, like a big hole a little bit every day so that if he died, there would be a big hole right next to him. That was my smart idea. And then Mamie and Gramps got home, and they're like, what. What are you doing? I was like, I'm digging a grave for Joe. And they're like, why don't you just call the veterinarian? And the veterinarian came and gave him a shot, and he was totally fine. But after that, Joe kind of looked at me a little funny. What was the moment you realized this is not the right story for this moment? Well, when I realized it was a creature that I was, a beloved pet of ours that I was convinced was about to die and digging a grave for. But halfway through, I realized, oh, God, I'm getting them right into death and dying and uncertainty about how to handle a situation. How do I get out of this?

[MJ]

I don't really want to talk about.

[Kirk Johnson]

Like, a dying graves right now.

[Ira Glass]

Sorry.

[Nancy Updike]

Yeah, okay.

[Kirk Johnson]

It's okay, Daddy.

[Ira Glass]

Let's do. Sorry. I shouldn't have told the Joe. I just. Joe. Joe. Like, I rode that horse all the time. Kirk and his family were lucky. Like so many families in Los Angeles right now, they're now back in their home. The tortoise is fine. But in that moment when it was so unclear what to do, and he and his wife, M.J. were trying to pretend that things were gonna be fine when they really had no idea at all and were scared they were not gonna be fine. When his brain searched for a story to tell the children, this one with the horse is the one that popped up. And if I. If I really think about it, that story is about decision making. Without enough information, I didn't know what to do. And the best idea I came up with was just impossibly stupid. But yeah, the moral of that story is like sometimes you choose poorly. These kind of moments when you feel the earth shifting underneath you and you just have to figure out what you're going to do in this new reality. That's what our show is about today. People with different pivot points in their lives between what was and what's about to happen. I'm WBEZ Chicago. It's this American Life. I'm Ira Glass. Stay with us. This message comes from Wise, the app for doing things in other currencies, sending or spending money abroad. Hidden fees may be taking a cut. With Wise, you can convert between up to 40 currencies at the mid market exchange rate. Visit wise.com tncs apply this message comes from Schwab at Schwab. How you invest is your choice, not theirs. That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices. You can invest and trade on your own. Plus get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs. With award winning service, low costs and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth using your way at Schwab. Visit schwab.com to learn more. This American Life act one who's laughing now? So we start today with this story about somebody who's been thinking a lot about one particular pivot point that the world might go through. Nancy Updike went to meet him.

[Unknown Host]

Got a question for you out there. Listening. Have you ever had a bloody nose? I ask because I get a bloody nose. Recently when I went to do an interview with a British comedy writer and director named Armando Iannucci. He made the TV show Veep for HBO Now Max with Julia Louis Dreyfus playing the vice president. He made a movie called the Death of Stalin, a comedy somehow about the battle for succession in the Soviet Union after Stalin died. And he made a movie that I especially love called in the Loop about the lead up to a war that isn't identified as the Iraq War but seems a lot like the Iraq War. Also a comedy. Armando Iannucci gets called Prescient a lot, but I think of him not so much as prescient as in tune. He follows the news he is paying attention to now. Veep got into aspects of the political culture in Washington in a way no other show did, the epic pettiness, the unglamorous maneuvering. I'm always interested to see through his work what he finds funny and relevant and sometimes frightening in the world. So I went to London to interview him about one of his new projects, a new play, which I will get to. But right now all you need to know is that I came to the interview as a fan, straight up. I didn't hide it, but I didn't lead with it either. We were both there to do our jobs. I was told I would get an hour with him to be safe. I was 15 minutes early. And while I was waiting, I got a bloody nose. I got the bloody nose while I was standing in the living room type room somewhere upstairs at the Noel Coward Theatre in London. A room that has a white carpet and white upholstered chairs and a silver upholstered couch. I pulled a bunch of tissues from my bag, pretty much always have tissues, and I was holding a pile of them to my bloody nose. Normal, it happens, I get bloody noses sometimes. Then I ran out of tissues. So I started using paper towels from the kitchenette that was attached to the living room. And it was a lot of blood. So I had a big wad of paper towels pressed to my nose, trying not to drip on the white rug. When Armando Yannucci walked through the kitchenette and into the living room, he and the publicist were concerned. He said, do you need a few minutes? He understood about bloody noses. The publicist said, would you like to use the toilet? I said, yes, that would be great. Thank you so much. I am so sorry about this. Where is that toilet? And I went to the bathroom to wrap this mess up. And I had what seemed to be a rolling series of bloody noses or one big one that had many phases, I don't know. But what I do know from sad, gross experience is that a bloody nose means there's a clot somewhere high up in my nose that needs to come out for the bloody nose to stop. So I was trying to blow my nose and blow the clot out. And it took me some time to realize that as I was doing that, unsuccessfully, I was spraying tiny droplets of blood all over the sink, the toilet seat, the floor, the mirror, the wallpaper, the wallpaper. I started wiping everywhere like it was a crime scene. And I rolled up a tight little roll of toilet paper and stuck it up my right nostril to catch the blood. That's what I do at home when I have a bloody nose and no one's looking. And the little roll of toilet paper filled with blood and fell on the floor as I was wiping the floor, had to roll up another one that filled with blood, roll up a new one, take out the old one, repeat Repeat. I went through an entire roll of toilet paper and had to start a new one. So I was pacing around this little bathroom with toilet paper in my nose, looking for tiny blood drops and muttering to myself, you gotta wrap this up. Wrap it up, wrap this up. And time was passing. So I started thinking, maybe I could interview Armando Iannucci with rolled up toilet paper sticking out of my nose. Or maybe I could stick a really tiny bit of toilet paper far enough up my nose that he wouldn't see it, but it would still block the blood. This nosebleed went on for half an hour. It was a full on anxiety dream come to life. And Armando Yannucci's movies and TV shows are full of awkward scenes that happen on the job. A person trying to do a serious thing and getting thwarted by something dumb and embarrassing like a pair of squeaky shoes. In one of his movies, an assistant secretary of State starts bleeding from her teeth in the middle of a meeting. And what usually happens in these scenes is the person just gets pounced on, mocked without mercy by their colleagues or rivals or the press. Any vulnerability or misstep is noticed and weaponized. But Armando Iannucci, the real person in real life, did something completely different. I walked out of the bathroom not even sure the interview was still possible. So much time had been lost. And he said with perfect grace, I'm not in a rush. He and the publicist Nada simply put the whole thing behind us. Nada said, look, he's got a photo shoot in half an hour, but he can come back after that. Armando said, we'll talk for a while and then I'll go and come back and we'll talk more. It was like he waved a wand over me and said, you had a nightmare, and now it's over. Which is the opposite of what happens in his new play. I wanted to interview Armando because his work is so good at capturing things about now, about. About the present. And I saw that he was doing a stage version of an old cold war film, Dr. Strangelove by Stanley Kubrick. And I found it alarming that this was his next project. I mean, it's a comedy, but the last scene is nuclear Armageddon and the end of the world. So what did he see in it that spoke to him about now? Why choose that particular story out of all possible stories at this moment? Well, part of the answer to why now? Is someone asked.

[Armando Iannucci]

Well, Dr. Strangeoffice is one of those films that it's always been in my top five movies of all time.

[Unknown Host]

Ladies and gentlemen, Armando Iannucci. He got a call from the director and co adapter of the play, Sean Foley, who asked Armando did he want to work on it with him? And Armando quickly said, yes, I think.

[Armando Iannucci]

It'S the best dark comedy film ever made. I'm a huge Kubrick fan. The other reason I said yes was because, and this was several years ago. At the time, climate change was becoming a much more stark reality. There was a kind of a sensation of we don't do something immediately about this, the world isn't going to come back from it. That sense of us as a collective species still being unable to save ourselves from our own behavior, us as a.

[Unknown Host]

Species being unable to save ourselves from our own behavior is the plot of Dr. Strangelove. The entire story lives in the minutes right before the world pivots from a planet full of life to a death scape of ashes and poison. The story is an American general goes quietly nuts. He's a conspiracy theorist who believes commies are poisoning America through fluoridation. To stop that, he sends US bombers off to start a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. When reasonable people on both sides realize what's happening, they try to stop it. The US President gets so desperate that he gives the Soviets the information they need to shoot down the planes. But one bomber gets through anyway, triggering a cascade of nuclear bombs to fire, automatically destroying the world.

[Armando Iannucci]

Everyone on stage realizes there's a good chance the world might end, but they can't quite admit it. It's like a very slow motion car crash that you're watching and everyone's caught up in it but unable to because of their own desire to retain their own status and to prove their point over the enemy, leading to annihilation more.

[Unknown Host]

Than any one to one correspondence with the news now, there's a feeling to Strangelove that I found familiar. A sense that enormous danger is looming. But we're also wading through a sludge of ridiculousness. I feel some level of dread all the time for a while now. And I had a hunch based on Armando's work that he might have a similar feeling.

[Armando Iannucci]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. Dread, yes. I think we're all anxious about something, but for each person it's a different thing. Or we can't quite put a finger on it. There's just a cumulative atmosphere of dread and foreboding, but not quite knowing what I mean.

[Unknown Host]

Was it a way for you to channel, to sort of organize or contain your own dread as a project?

[Armando Iannucci]

Oh, absolutely. It's a way of articulating.

[Ira Glass]

It.

[Armando Iannucci]

It's a way of processing it, it's a way of dramatizing it.

[Unknown Host]

Once I got an answer to why make strange love? Now we moved into a meandery but very enjoyable conversation about how to confront your dread these days. Because I am taking suggestions and Armando's work is something I've returned to again and again. And what I'm thinking now is that especially with his movies and with Strangelove, I come for the comedy, but maybe stay for the dread. So we talked about, how do you go about making comedy out of catastrophe and fear? You've said that people underestimate comedy, which I agree, especially about things that are sort of big and terrifying. But make the case. What do people underestimate its ability to do that you feel like, no, no, it's best. It's best at that.

[Armando Iannucci]

I'm not arguing comedy is.

[Unknown Host]

Or better.

[Armando Iannucci]

It just gives you another way in. And I think comedy, I think it. It just allows you to open up your mind a bit. It's, you know, if you find yourself laughing at something and then asking yourself, should I have laughed at that? Or well, well, if you've laughed at it, then you should. It's spontaneous. I think that's why autocratic leaders hate jokes about themselves.

[Unknown Host]

Spontaneous. They can't control it or predict it.

[Armando Iannucci]

It's out of their hands. You know, they like stuff where they could tell you what to do, you know, and comedy allows what might otherwise feel are forbidding and inaccessible theme. It allows you that entry point. You know, before making the death of Stalin, I went back and watched the Great Dictator.

[Unknown Host]

The Great Dictator is a movie about Hitler that Charlie Chaplin put out incredibly in 1940, so not even with the.

[Armando Iannucci]

Benefit of hindsight, right in the middle of it. And he treads this line between high comedy, fantastic, memorable comedic moments like Adonoid Hinkle, the dictator, just playing with a globe, picking earth up in his hands and dancing with it. And then scenes set in the Jewish ghetto which are not funny, not meant to be funny. And it's this balance between the funny and the tragic. And I knew when going into the death of Stalin, that's what I wanted to do. And I said to everyone when we started filming, said to the crew and to the cast, it's a comedy, but we must also be mindful and respectful of what happened to the people. We're not making fun of the fact of. Of. Of the deaths that they. And the punishments they. We're making the comedy comes from those inside the Kremlin and It was holding those two kind of tones and moods simultaneously.

[Unknown Host]

Armando pulls it off because he doesn't skimp on either the bad in the Death of Stalin or the comedy. The bad is quite bad and the funny is really funny. And one way I've noticed that he keeps those two moods aloft at the same time. In many of his projects, he often focuses on people who work together. In the Death of Stalin, there's this intense rivalry among the men around Stalin, all jockeying for power after he dies, scheming and whingeing and flailing. That workplace power struggle is what made Veep so funny too. In the Strangelove play, the president and his advisors are in the war room gathered around a ludicrously large circular table, mostly arguing. And one guy, a guy you may know from your own job, keeps throwing out bad ideas in a loud voice in a sort of Roman Roy, I'm the only one being real here way. For instance, he argues that maybe the thing to do is to lean into this attack the US has launched. Not bring back the bombers that are on their way, but send more planes with more bombs. Try to win this war rather than try to stop it. It all makes sense under something called Plan R. It would remove all uncertainty.

[Ira Glass]

If we pre talliate.

[Armando Iannucci]

Pre tally what?

[Ira Glass]

Pre taliate. I think this is a new word. See, conventionally, if the Russians attack us, our only option is to retaliate. Plan R gives us a second option. We pre talliate before they even think of talliating. Nuclear preterrence, sir. In a nutshell, it's bulletproof.

[Unknown Host]

Pre talliate isn't in the Strangelove movie, but it was built out of logic. That is in there. And that Armando and the director and co adapter Sean Foley expanded and riffed on.

[Armando Iannucci]

You know, I've spent the last, whatever, several decades examining politicians, their speech and how they. How they use rhetoric to disguise or to pretend something is not what it is, and so on.

[Unknown Host]

But Armando says, sometimes you really don't need to riff or invent. Sometimes comedy is just sitting there, waiting to be picked up like a hundred dollar bill on the sidewalk.

[Armando Iannucci]

You know, in the film, it opens with the Air Force gate saying, peace is our profession. I thought that was a gag. I thought Kubrick made it up. In the archive, you come and go, there's the photo. It exists.

[Unknown Host]

This is in the Kubrick archive.

[Armando Iannucci]

He says he saw this photo of an Air Force base with pieces Our Profession written on it. So again, he's taking what's true and just putting it in, you know, yeah.

[Unknown Host]

Pieces, our profession shows up a bunch of times in the movie along with other sort of funny sight gags of just the way things are labeled. And I thought pieces our profession was over the top. I thought, oh, it's too much.

[Armando Iannucci]

I know. And it was real. It was real. I know, I know. And that's when you just think. You don't have to embroider it, you know, if what is true makes the point, then make that point with the truth, you know, with the death of Stalin, as we researched the story, we kept finding more and more stories that were just absurd but actually happened.

[Unknown Host]

Like a scene that ended up in the movie about Stalin's son, Vasily.

[Armando Iannucci]

Vasily was high up in the Soviet Air Force. He was over promoted. He was drunk. He was in charge of the ice hockey team. He sent them to a tournament in an ice storm. He was warned there'd be a danger to the flight. The flight went down. He lost the ice hockey team. He was too scared to tell his father. So he just recruited like friends of friends for a new team who were terrible. And that's such a bizarre story, but it says so much about. Even his son was scared of him. And. And that's what I was saying. It's all about the truth, you know, it's the truth of what people really felt at the time. How can we. How can we get to that. That uneasy feeling they had at the bottom of their stomachs for years, that they might be rounded up and taken away in the middle of the night.

[Unknown Host]

I've now seen Dr. Strangelove a bunch of times. The movie and then the play. And every time I think, so no one wins in the end. The bad ideas don't prevail. Nothingness prevails. It's shocking. Many times in my life I've looked back at a specific moment and thought, oh, right, that was before. Before I knew that before this happened. But it's much more unsettling to experience now the moment you are currently in as that before time. To look around and feel that you will look back on this moment as one that came before so many losses or changes or hardships. Dr. Strangelove. The play gave the audience a chance to sure laugh, but also to feel that dread. To see ourselves as living in a time before. Before something. It's not clear what. Nuclear bombs have a narrative advantage that way. They have one iconic image associated with them, a recognizable brand of destruction. What is the right image for what's on our horizon or mine? I'll just speak for myself. My dread I rewatched the movie and saw the play during the hottest year on record, in the summer before the U.S. presidential election. I'm writing this story wondering how much of Los Angeles is going to burn and whether there's going to be a nationwide ban on abortion, mass deportations. I don't have a picture in my head to focus on. It feels more like a play, a lot of dialogue, and I'm experiencing it live.

[Ira Glass]

Nancy Updike is producer on our show. The stage version of Dr. Strangelove, which, by the way, stars Steve Coogan in several different roles, is playing at the Noel Coward Theatre in London through January 25th and will be in Dublin from February 5th to February 22nd. Act 2 the View from the Dugout so one of the things that seems likely to change once Donald Trump is again in the White House is U.S. policy toward Ukraine. His vice president, J.D. vance, has called for an end to aid to Ukraine and describe a peace plan that basically lets Russia keep the territory it's gained. Donald Trump has been vaguer about his intentions, but he's been a skeptic of continued aid. He has said many times that he was going to end the war in 24 hours. We wondered what it's like for Ukrainian soldiers who depend on US Arms right now to see all of this at this pivot point and how they're imagining what's going to happen next once Trump takes office. Our producer, Valerie Kipnis spoke with a bunch of people on the front lines.

[Nancy Updike]

The first soldier I want to tell you about is Sergei. He's a former vegan chef from Kyiv. He'd quit his job to join the army a year ago. He's really proud of the fact that his unit recycles. When I asked how he described what his unit looks like when they're in action, he said, like hobbits in a bunker. Hobbits with mortars. Sergei told me that it's a strange feeling to live in this moment of time before things might change. Everyone around him believes in anything and everything all at the same time. There's nothing that's not in the realm of possibility.

[Ira Glass]

Definitely. It felt like, and still might feel like time has stopped. Time has stopped and something needs to happen.

[Nancy Updike]

Like right now, you're living in the part of time that stopped.

[Ira Glass]

Definitely. Definitely. Everything simultaneously. Like with this, everything is real. Everything might be real, everything might happen. So, like, there is no reasons why tomorrow or in a week, like a whole Europe and UK and US might not decide. Behind closed doors and just provide Ukraine with a decision to stop military funding. And of course, that would be a huge impact on our ability to keep on fighting. Oh, one second, one second. Let me hear if you'll hear it. So there is an air alert going on. Like, if you can hear the signal.

[Nancy Updike]

Whoa.

[Unknown Host]

Yeah.

[Nancy Updike]

What does that mean?

[Ira Glass]

It kind of sounds like those. There might be some air attack, like, be it drones or a missile or like something like this.

[Nancy Updike]

Do you have to go hide somewhere or what do you do?

[Ira Glass]

No, I'll go brew myself a cup of tea.

[Nancy Updike]

Maybe that's how long this war has been going on. Long enough that there's an air attack and you go brew yourself a cup of tea. When Donald Trump won the election, Sergei was sitting in a dugout on the front line. That's basically just a big square hole in the ground, 100 square feet, like in World War I. Five guys all huddled together that night. They just finished firing at the Russians, sat down to rest when one of the guys in his unit went on X, saw the news that Trump was winning and read it aloud.

[Ira Glass]

He went all like, oh, this guy wins, and if he wins, he will end all the help to Ukraine and we are basically screwed. We went in the full discussion of how the American democracy works, bringing up Wikipedia pages. We spent around three hours of our nighttime just by talking, talking, talking about what the President in America has power to do.

[Nancy Updike]

Could Trump just stop the war, unilaterally stop sending aid they'd already promised? And what's the deal with the House and the Senate? Did he need their permission? Serhiy and the other soldiers dug and dug for answers, and here's where he came down. He concluded that Trump wouldn't have the power to reverse the aid Biden had already promised all at once. Which isn't exactly true, but that's what he told his unit. Did you feel like it was your job to sort of calm everyone down.

[Ira Glass]

Maybe calming in a way that I don't want my crew member to feel their head wins. Like, downgraded morale for, like, next five days. We need to be going hand in hand for our mission.

[Nancy Updike]

These kinds of conversations have been happening on the Ukrainian front line for months now. Not all the time, but here and there. I talked to 10 people in a variety of positions on the front. They all laughed when I asked about Trump saying he could finish the war in 24 hours. Of course, they remembered the first time he said it. They remembered where they were, what they were doing, but they didn't think much of it, except for the fact that Trump was a showman and that this was all part of his act. But even so, that didn't stop them from wondering, what in the world might he mean? Same thing happened a few days after Trump won the election in November. Joe Biden approved Ukraine's use of long range missiles. The soldiers were excited. They'd been waiting for this for years. But then Donald Trump said that he thought launching long range missiles into Russia was actually a big mistake. One soldier told me that he was on the front line, just finished shooting mortars when he heard what Trump had said. And he looked at his crew like, what? What does this actually mean for us? Will they actually take away the approval they'd just given? Another soldier who told me about trying to read the tea leaves of American politics is Vitaly a drone operator? He's from a region of Ukraine that's been in the fight against Russian occupation since 2014. Vitaly's been fighting this war on and off since he was 24. As a drone operator, he spends hours sitting in a bunker watching monitors. He's got two screens in front of him. One is a live feed surveillance of the frontline, and the other his phone. Social media group chats the news, one right next to the other.

[Ira Glass]

Oftentimes we talk in the evenings while looking at the monitors because there's not much action during the night. The Russians usually start moving early in the morning before the sunrise. These conversations are meant to pass the time because now it's winter and the night is long and you have a lot of time to kill. In fact.

[Kirk Johnson]

Because war is not always.

[Ira Glass]

Action, war is very often sitting put for a long time.

[Nancy Updike]

They talk about how Trump the candidate could be against funding for Ukraine, but Trump the president, might not be.

[Ira Glass]

Sometimes we'll just be sitting there in our positions in the basements, and someone will say that Trump doesn't actually care about any of this or us, and that he will make a deal with Russia at whatever price is most favorable to him. Then there's the people who will say that Trump actually understands everything and will try to talk to Putin. And Putin will not want to come to an agreement and will not want to give us any territories. And so Trump will realize that there can be no agreement with Putin and.

[Kirk Johnson]

Will instead provide us with lots of.

[Ira Glass]

New weapons, thanks to which we can win.

[Nancy Updike]

Vitaly told me he actually finds this last scenario pretty convincing. Other times, he's less optimistic.

[Ira Glass]

One day I was sitting looking at a monitor, my phone next to it, just scrolling, and that was Trump's tweet. And then I turn and I tell my fellow servicemen, hey, take a look. There's Musk, who consider a visionary, but Musk writes such offensive things about Ukraine.

[Nancy Updike]

Elon Musk has said there's no way that Putin will lose, and he pitched the Ukraine peace plan on X, which would cede Crimea to Russia.

[Ira Glass]

And now he's going to be sitting in Trump's administration. And we were all like, shit, maybe he'll change, Maybe he'll be different as a politician when he gets some experience. One of the guys in the unit said, my brother has a Tesla. If I had known this guy would be a part of this, I would have convinced him not to buy it.

[Nancy Updike]

Trump's victory has cracked open a space for conversations that were once totally off limits. I heard about a moment like that from Artem, a soldier with a big personality. Artem is a volunteer fighter in a unit that calls themselves Peaky Blinders. He helps prepare ammunition for drones. He calls himself the candy Maker. Artem is a big believer that the war is nowhere near ending. Trump or no Trump, funding or no funding. But a few weeks ago, Artem went out with his commander, Zeleznyak, and another guy in his unit.

[Ira Glass]

In the evening, we went out to a hookah lounge and sat down to relax with our brothers in arms. We were sitting at the table together with Cish and Zalisnyak in this cafe where we ordered ourselves some dinner and the guys ordered a hookah as well. I don't smoke hooker, but they do. That was when our conversation began. When the waiter took our order, Zalisnyak looked up, deep in thought. He then turned his eyes to Ciz and began to ask him some questions.

[Nancy Updike]

Is a soldier in Artem's unit?

[Ira Glass]

He asked. If the war ends, what would you do? He asked what he thought his future would look like after the war was over. They started to speculate what events would unfold, who would travel, who would do what, basically pouring out their hearts to one another.

[Nancy Updike]

Artem couldn't believe that he was hearing his fellow brothers in arms talking about what they would do after the war ended. Going to travel, going back to their normal civilian lives.

[Ira Glass]

I told him. I didn't believe it.

[Nancy Updike]

To hear a fellow soldier even whisper the possibility that the fight could be over is still not something Artem's used to. The party line of any Ukrainian soldier, of any Ukrainian really, is that they'll fight to the end, and the fight may never end. Expressing any sort of doubt feels almost unpatriotic. But I talked to a Ukrainian expert who was in contact with many high ranking officials in the army who told me that while many soldiers remain die hard and committed to keep fighting till the end, another group which is growing is made up of people who are getting increasingly weary of this war. Ukraine's recently suffered a series of setbacks and defeats and the expert says this group likes that. Trump is someone who will change things up. Artem thought about this moment with his commander for a while. What had he meant by that? Did he actually think this war would end? Artem told me this a few days later, in the midst of heavy bombardment. He studied his commander's face. He looked like he was all in. And so Artem decided that his commander didn't mean what he said. He told me he'd figured it out. His commander didn't actually think the war was ending. He was just testing his unit. The truth is, these guys don't think about Trump all that much. They've got other things on their minds. One soldier told me that when you're in the rear, far from the front line, it's easy to imagine all the possibilities of what could happen next. But when you're on the front, it's like all of that collapses into this one linear logic. The weapon in front of you, the tank next to you, the amount of ammo you have left the present, no before and no after. Those are the moments, he said, that feel the greatest for him, when he just does what he can with what he has, when he's not speculating about what will be.

[Ira Glass]

Valerie Kipnes is a producer in our show. She reported this with help from Anastasia Mazova. Coming up, the power of a simple photograph in a moment of uncertainty. That's in a minute on Chicago Public Radio when our program continues.

[Nancy Updike]

This message comes from NPR sponsor Allianz Travel Insurance. A remote hike in Thailand seemed like a good idea, but you twisted your ankle. Now you're at the nearest hospital and your health insurance may not cover you abroad.

[Ira Glass]

Luckily, Allianz's emergency medical benefits may help.

[Nancy Updike]

Learn more and get a'@allianztravelinsurance.com this message.

[MJ]

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[Nancy Updike]

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[Ira Glass]

This American Life from Ira Glass. Today on our program Pivot Point. On this weekend, before a new presidency begins, we have stories of people living in these strange and often unsettling in between moment when you know things are right on the cusp of big, big changes. We've arrived at Act 3 of our program, Act 3, period peace. So when we're discussing this week's theme as a group here at the radio show, one of our coworkers, Susan Burton, started talking about a year long Pivot point. It lasts 12 months that many of our listeners have either gone through, are in the middle of now, or will go through. Quick heads up. Susan describes some bodily stuff in here. Here she is.

[MJ]

I got my first period when I was 10, and then I continued to get it for the next 40 years. I didn't get it every month. There were exceptions. Blackout dates, pregnancy, breastfeeding, anorexia. But for Most of the 40 years, each month my period would come and I'd open a calendar and mark the anticipated date of my next period with a tk like a forthcoming fact in a piece I was reporting. Sometimes I would get my period and not have tampons, and then I would go online and order enough tampons so that I would never run out again.

[Ira Glass]

And.

[MJ]

And then suddenly I was about to turn 50 and I understood I would never get through all the tampons I had ordered. What was the first day of your last period? Asked the nurse at the gynecologist's office. Okay, I said. I mean, I think it was sometime last month, like August, but it's hard to tell. I'm at that age, you know? Like, I was kind of bleeding all summer. Not in an alarming way, just it was hard to tell. You are officially in menopause once you go one full year without a period. So I was not there yet. I was in perimenopause. During Peri, my period had first come a lot, every 18 days. Over time that changed. 60 days between periods, then 90. I'd start thinking, this is it. And then I'd get my period again and the clock would restart. Congratulations, a friend said to me one day when the counter reset to zero. She was kidding, but that was the feeling. Peri was a safe zone, and I wanted to stay there. What made Perry a safe zone was simply that it was not menopause. It was still the before time. Perry may have Been a safe zone, but it was not a safe harbor. During it, I'd had the common symptoms you hear about and other things you don't. Frozen shoulder, which was just what it sounded like. Migraines, I managed by digging my fingernails into my forehead. There were remedies for some of the symptoms, but what I tried or didn't is not what I want to get into here. My point is that I'd already been through a few rocky years, years of accelerated aging. I felt startled by how quickly my face was changing. According to the Internet, this was on me. There was a punitive quality to the phrase sun damage, but the promise was that once you were officially in menopause, you would feel better because things would slow down and your moods would level out. You would come into your own. You would give a shit. Less in menopause, you would be sanguine. And yet I wasn't eager to get there. All along, I'd had so many fears about menopause. A short list of those fears might start with my associations to the dry, wiry, papery. I was scared of what would happen to desire, like how much of it I would feel. The messaging on this was positive. Women in menopause can still be sexy and still want sex. But the celebrities of menopause were hot and liberated, and you hardly heard from the regular women who maybe did want less. And that was the information I was looking for. How it felt to still be sexual, but to have the volume just turned down a bit, because that was what I suspected was most true. I didn't know yet. I wasn't there, but I thought I might be closer than I'd ever been. That period I'd had in August, light, persistent. I had a feeling it would be the last one. My bet was that once the hand on the clock circled through the year, that would be it. I would officially be in menopause. September, October, November, December. No period. Still in the before time, it was sort of like not wanting to move into a new decade, like wanting to linger in the last months of being 29, 39, 49 or 9. Even as a child, I'd had a sadness about aging. Not wanting to cross into the double digits of 10. Getting a period at 10 was early, very early. In 1984, I'd felt horror at that advancement. Now I recognized that this was happening again. As the year ticked on. Now January, now February, I found there were things I missed about menstruating. There was a stillness in my body. Without it. I missed the cycle which began each month with a low flat mood and then continued with the rising action of ovulation. That mid month surge of energy, some of it erotic, I missed the elevation in mood. March earlier in my life, fearing pregnancy, I'd willed my period to come, but it wasn't like that now. I wasn't pulling down my underwear and hoping. April, May. I was still in the before time, though I was increasingly accepting of the idea that I would soon be in menopause, testing it out in my head. Maybe this is partly because a whole new generation millennials had discovered perimenopause and once again were shining up the scruffy territory we Gen Xers had claimed. Advertisers had gotten there too, and now it seemed like everyone was talking about menopause, but most of them were not talking about it the right way. And this is probably always true. No one is ever talking about your own menopause, about exactly what it means to you. June month 10 by now I was traveling without any supplies. There wasn't going to be an emergency. There wasn't going to be another period stain. For years I dealt with period stains, kneeling by the washing machine, spraying stain remover into a seam, or looking at the back of a skirt and wondering if it could be saved. But there's one stain I've never been able to get out, a stain on the pink upholstery of one of our dining room chairs. I sat there one early summer morning. For me, a singularly important morning. A book I'd written had been published. I sat there in a nightgown, reading a glowing review. I could feel that I was getting my period, but it didn't matter. A dream of my life was coming true. I wanted to sit there in it. I didn't want to move. Now that stain is there, and I've tried to lift it, but it won't come out. And I don't mind that it's there. It's a marker of a moment of bliss, and of an earlier self, too, one whose body still did that for so many years. I tried to manage my period, make it invisible, get rid of evidence now, this strange, possibly even repulsive kind of preservation. But it's a stain that makes me remember the feeling of the world opening up before me. July came, and then it was August again, and it was official. One full year. Is it too Pollyanna to say that I actually did feel the world opening up? There had been something trying about wanting to stay where I was. Once I crossed the threshold, there was no more resistance and I was moving forward again. When I went for my physical, my doctor said, what was the date of your last menstrual period? August 2023. I said menopause, she said with an exclamation point. Like Menopause the musical. Like a curtain rising on a new stage.

[Ira Glass]

Susan Burton is an editor on Our Show Act 4 Since you've been gone. So Show Today is about people with a pivot point. And one entire community in that situation is Altadena, California. It's one of the towns around LA that's so devastated that for most of the last week and a half, nobody was allowed in. It's been surrounded by National Guard with barricades. One of our producers, Meeki Meek, talked to somebody who stayed at her house. The fire stopped about a block away and in the first days of the fires, came up with a mission for herself.

[Nancy Updike]

Vanessa Prad is A nursing student, 25 years old, lives with her parents in the home she grew up in. In those first few days after the fires, she realized people who'd evacuated didn't have a way to figure out if their homes were still standing or not.

[Kirk Johnson]

And I remember I was just sitting and thinking like, well, one thing we've been doing is driving around, so maybe like, something I can do to help is drive around and take pictures of these homes.

[Nancy Updike]

So she went onto a community Facebook page for Altadena and posted this message.

[Kirk Johnson]

So I said, hello, everyone. Our home and family is all okay and safe. That being said, we are behind the barricades. We are more than happy to drive around and take a picture. For any person who would like to see their home or, God forbid, what is left of their home, please let me know the address.

[Nancy Updike]

And then how fast did you start getting responses?

[Kirk Johnson]

So I started getting responses pretty quickly, probably like five, ten minutes after I posted it. And then when they share the address, they write something and they say, oh, I brought my children home to that house. I've had people say I was born in that house. Actually, I had somebody say, my grandma was born in the house. I was married in that house.

[Nancy Updike]

54 people messaged her their addresses. She wrote them down into a notebook. And then she and her dad got into their old Toyota minivan and started driving.

[Kirk Johnson]

See if I find that Prius melted.

[Nancy Updike]

Vanessa in the passage passenger seat and her father driving.

[Ira Glass]

Okay, that one is on the left side. Just a few.

[Nancy Updike]

That's their dog, Shelby, panting on her father's lap.

[Ira Glass]

Look, it's here somewhere. Where? On the right side.

[Kirk Johnson]

I think it's this. They mentioned it was this one.

[Nancy Updike]

They got to 10 houses on their first day, but it took them almost four hours. Altadena is a small place. The whole thing's only about nine square miles. But the streets were blocked with downed power lines and fallen trees. When they did get to an address, Vanessa would snap a photo and text it right away.

[Kirk Johnson]

The goal is to get the photos as quick as possible, without delay to these people about their homes, because you can imagine the agony of somebody sitting in a shelter not knowing.

[Nancy Updike]

So how many people have you responded to so far?

[Kirk Johnson]

We've done about 41, and I think we have another seven or eight today.

[Nancy Updike]

And then of those 41 that you've been able to check on, like, how many are still standing?

[Kirk Johnson]

Less than half.

[Nancy Updike]

Less than half. Okay.

[Kirk Johnson]

Yeah. Less than half.

[Nancy Updike]

What is that? Can you explain the process to me of.

[Kirk Johnson]

It's difficult. So when the house is there, I send the picture and I don't say anything because there is no words needed. Usually I. I get a thank you when the house isn't there. That's when it becomes a little bit more challenging. Some people will send me, hey, can you send me the status of my home? I know it's probably gone, but it would be great to know what the situation looks like. And then there's the ones that are like, I have no idea if you could send me a picture. And those are the hard ones because, you know, you're the one who's going to break the news. And so I just. I send a picture and I say, I'm so sorry for your loss is usually all I say. And they usually respond with something. And then I'll follow up with, I wish I could do more to help. Like, I wish there was something else I could do to help. You know, you can't. There's not much you can say if somebody's lost their home. And then I've also had, like, the occasional, like, after I send the burnt house, they'll send me photos of the house prior. I remember one of the houses that they sent that burned. Oh, my God. It was, you know, really burnt. And they sent me a picture. The house was beautiful. I mean, it really was. Was. That one was hard. Yeah.

[Nancy Updike]

How did you respond back?

[Kirk Johnson]

What a beautiful home. I'm so sorry. I mean, it really was. It had a beautiful garden. Like, I'm looking at the picture now. It's like, it's a dark brown roof. The house is, like, off white, and the yard has, like, bushes, and the bushes have, like, pink Small pink flowers. They had like a bench on the outside of their house and it's like a red bench, which really goes with the house, honestly, because it really complemented the color of the house. It made it stick out, you know.

[Nancy Updike]

A few days after the fire started, when it was still only 3% contained, she and her father were trying to get to an address at the end of a cul de sac. That one house took them a couple days to get to. They kept trying different roads in every way.

[Kirk Johnson]

Had a tree, a huge tree that fell in the middle of the road, blocking us. And I said, this is going to be the one that I'm not going to be able to send a picture for. And I was just, you know, and I saw the person, she had a family and I was like, oh my God. Like I'm like telling my dad, like, we need to see what we can do. Like we need to try, you know.

[Nancy Updike]

On their fourth attempt, they finally got closer to the address but encountered another tree blocking the road. So Vanessa got out of the car and started walking. She sent me the video.

[Kirk Johnson]

Okay.

[Nancy Updike]

Around her were charred trees and electrical poles dangling from power lines. The bottoms burned completely off.

[Kirk Johnson]

I'm like walking under the poles and like going in between wires. Like I couldn't figure out which house it was. I mean it was that. That area was like demolished. Like it looks like somebody dropped a bomb in that area and like there's nothing. There's not even like when you, you know, when you go to a house and you see like those, those house numbers on the curb. It was so bad that those house numbers were like non existent.

[Nancy Updike]

The rubble was still smoldering and all she could see were remnants of stone walls and chimney columns. A burned out station wagon.

[Kirk Johnson]

But it was just like, I'm going to make a general video and just like, hopefully I hit the house and I sent that one and I told the person, like, please let me know if I am getting your house because I'm here now and I can get enough another picture or get another video if needed. And they said, no, that's perfect. Like you got it.

[Nancy Updike]

One of the last messages I got from Vanessa was a rare bright moment in this terrible time.

[Ira Glass]

Oh my God. She's going to. So take a picture here and walk there and take the other one.

[Nancy Updike]

She and her dad found a house still standing.

[Ira Glass]

Wonderful, right?

[Kirk Johnson]

Yeah.

[Nancy Updike]

But go through that gate so you can pick.

[Ira Glass]

Miki Meek is a producer on our show. Wish I could tell you it would all be fine.

[Unknown Host]

It all be just fine, but I'll.

[Ira Glass]

Be what they will. Well, our program was produced today by Emmanuel Jochi. People who put together today's show and quote include FIA Bennen, Dana Chivas, Michael Comite, Angela Gervasi, Cassie Halley, Hannah Jaffee, Walt, Henry Larson, Seth Lind, Katherine Raymondo, Stone Nelson, Nadia Raymond, Ryan Rummery, Alyssa Shipp, Laura Starcheski, Lily Sullivan, Krista Rosura, Marisa Robertson, texter and Diane Wu. Our managing editor, Sara Abderrahman. Our senior editors, David Kestenbaum. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Berry. Special thanks today to Tasia Prasya, Seva, Eric Charamela, Katerina Sergatskova, Michael O'Hanlon, John Witz, Bennett Epstein, Vanessa Martinez, Ron Glynn, Jeanette Marantos and Hannah Fry. At the LA Times, the actors performing the English translations for the Ukrainians in Act 2 of our show today were Alexander Foreman and Ross Pella. This American Life is delivered to public radio stations by prx, the public radio exchange to become a this American Life partner, which gives you bonus content ad free listening hundreds of our favorite episodes of the show that are going to show up right in your podcast feed. Go to ThisAmericanLife.org LifePartners. Your subscription also helps keep our program going. Thanks this week to life partners Cici Chen Mingfei and Colette Spriggans. Thanks as always to our Brigham's co founder, Mr. Tory Malatea. You know, he's been taking a figure drawing class. His drawings are pretty good except for the hands. He does the shoulder, upper arm, forearm, all great and then gets to the end of the arm and it's always.

[Armando Iannucci]

We can't quite put a finger on it.

[Ira Glass]

I'm Eric Glass, back next week with more stories of this American Life.

[Nancy Updike]

Support for NPR and the following message come from IXL Learning. IXL Learning uses advanced algorithms to give the right help to each kid, no matter the age or personality.

[Unknown Host]

Get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when you sign up [e-mail] NPR.