Podcast Summary: This American Life Episode 874 – "Under One Roof"

Date: November 16, 2025
Host: Ira Glass
Featured Producers and Guests: Valerie Kipnes, Heather Gay & her family, the Rivera family

Overview

This episode of This American Life, titled "Under One Roof," delves into the complex dynamics of families living together while experiencing and perceiving the same events in radically different ways. Through deeply personal stories—one about a former Mormon mother leading a double life, and another about a mixed-status immigrant family facing the threat of self-deportation—the episode explores secrets, misunderstandings, unspoken fears, and the divergent perspectives coexisting under a single roof.

ACT 1: Secrets, Perceptions, and Coffee – The Story of Heather Gay (00:29–18:42)

Key Discussion Points and Insights

• Heather's Double Life Post-Divorce (00:29–04:50):

  • Heather Gay, raised Mormon, struggles to maintain the image of the perfect churchgoing family after divorcing her husband. She continues many Mormon practices for her daughters' sake while secretly breaking core church rules (drinking coffee, alcohol, and dating).
  • She describes living in fear of being discovered and the ease with which lying became second nature to navigate church and family scrutiny.
  • Quote (Heather): "You just learn to lie so easily and so quickly." (01:41)

• Hiding Subtle Acts of Rebellion (04:50–06:49):

  • Heather describes how she hid evidence of her forbidden behaviors—keeping vodka in a closet, hiding coffee pods in a Cheez-Its box, and making excuses for having a Keurig in the house ("for cocoa for the kids").

• Distinct Memories: Heather vs. Her Daughters (07:10–13:50):

  • Ira interviews Heather's daughter, Ashley, who reveals SHE was the one who bought the Keurig for her mother, fully aware it would be used for coffee—a fact Heather does not remember.
  • Ashley’s experience: seeing families outside Mormonism as more relaxed and wanting the same for her own family. She recognizes and accepts her mother's need to rebel quietly.
  • Contrasts between sisters: Ashley knew about her mother’s coffee drinking, while Georgia, the youngest, was unaware and "mind blown" to learn about it. This highlights differing realities within the same household.
  • Quote (Ashley): "Like me buying her a Keurig, I think she kind of thought, oh my gosh, like, Ashley understands me." (09:02)

• Breaking the Silence—Confronting Misunderstandings (14:02–16:39):

  • Ashley tells her mother the truth about the Keurig gift, leading to an emotional revelation for both—Ashley gave her permission, but Heather was too afraid to see it.
  • Quote (Heather): "It feels like you're kind of giving me permission to, you know, be myself." (14:28)
  • The family comes to recognize how acts meant as connection or rebellion were misinterpreted as isolation or secrecy.

• The Aftermath and Reflection (16:40–18:42):

  • As a "Real Housewife of Salt Lake City," Heather’s story plays out publicly, but her daughters admit they always saw themselves as a rule-bending Mormon family.
  • Ira wraps up: "People in the same family, people who live under the same roof, can see things so radically differently. Even simple things like a coffee maker." (16:51)

ACT 2: Self-Deportation, Divided Loyalties – The Rivera Family (18:42–64:07)

Key Discussion Points and Insights

• Eavesdropping on Parental Anxiety (18:42–21:39):

  • Mackenzie (17) and Bella (15) describe overhearing tense discussions about their father Fidel’s possible self-deportation after Trump wins re-election, breaking the family’s usual harmony.
  • The girls cope by eavesdropping and distracting themselves, showing how children internalize but rarely discuss family strife.

• Family Background: Legal Limbo and Stress (21:39–24:46):

  • Jenny (mom, US citizen) describes constant anxiety over Fidel’s lack of legal status; he cannot get citizenship through her unless he leaves for 10 years.
  • Since Trump’s second term begins, Jenny insists they have to make a concrete plan, while Fidel remains optimistic, believing nothing will change.

• Tension Escalates, Roles and Coping Mechanisms (24:46–34:59):

  • Jenny compulsively prepares documentation ("emergency binders") in case Fidel is detained; Fidel feels hurt, as though his wife is prepping for his exit.
  • The girls align with their dad—his attitude is comforting, implying nothing needs to change.
  • Quote (Fidel): "My wife is driving me nuts. ... But, like I said, we are totally different persons." (25:57)

• Adolescence and Dread (34:59–38:45):

  • The girls recall discovering their father’s undocumented status ("the situation") in 2020, trying to hide their distress by not talking about it with friends or even amongst themselves.
  • Quote (Mackenzie): "We try to, like, avoid it in conversations... we're gonna sit there and be sad." (36:15)

• The Inside-Out Quinceañera Decision (38:45–39:50):

  • Bella decides not to have a quinceañera since she can’t bear the thought of her father’s likely absence. This underscores how dread of separation infiltrates everyday and celebratory decisions.
  • Quote (Bella): "I don't want a Kinsei without him." (39:01)

• Stalemate and Shift—The Family Reaches a Breaking Point (41:52–47:26):

  • Spring brings a rare shouting match between the parents, overheard by the girls, signalling something has changed.
  • ICE activity ramps up regionally. Fidel finally acknowledges the real threat and agrees he should leave.
  • Quote (Fidel): "I think my wife is right... I need to like, change, change my switch." (45:52)

• Decision Day: What Do the Kids Want? (51:02–55:23):

  • At a family meeting, Jenny proposes moving everyone to Mexico. Mackenzie resists ("I don't want to leave"), Bella is passive but supportive, and Fidel wishes they could all just go together.
  • Quote (Mackenzie): "This is my last year at the school. You're not giving me enough time. ... I just want it to stay how it is." (52:17)

• Countdown and Processing the Loss (56:06–59:54):

  • As the departure date nears, the girls and Fidel struggle to accept the imminent separation. Both mourn the lost time and grapple with guilt and regret about what more they could have done together.
  • Quote (Mackenzie): "It's like he's just gonna disappear." (57:06)

• Preparing for the Absence, New Realities (60:07–62:55):

  • Fidel gives the girls last-minute life lessons, feeling both angry and sad. Jenny braces for single parenthood and emotional isolation, while the girls resolve to distract themselves with sports and friends.
  • Quote (Jenny): "I love my husband. He has a lot of great qualities, but... it's a hundred percent, 100% gonna suck for the next five years." (61:18)

• Fidel's Exit: On His Own Terms (62:55–64:07):

  • Fidel refuses the Trump administration’s self-deportation incentive, preferring to leave "through the front door, not the back door." The family throws him a farewell party, complete with a Trump piñata, which Bella gleefully finishes off.
  • Quote (Fidel): "I live happy. I leave my family happy." (63:08)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You just learn to lie so easily and so quickly."
  – Heather Gay (01:41)
• "I just understood her, you know, I could see that it just wasn't her, you know, that she wanted something different."
  – Ashley (Heather’s daughter) (13:50)
• "It's love. It's. I don't know, it's annoying to them, but it's love."
  – Fidel Rivera, on teasing his daughters (28:32)
• "I don't want a Kinsei without him."
  – Bella Rivera (39:01)
• "I'm not going to be in one of that places. That is my switch."
  – Fidel Rivera, on detention centers (46:10)
• "I think my only way to spend my time is working. Like work the most I can... so I don't need to be alone and I don't need to be be depressed."
  – Fidel Rivera (61:54)
• "Through the front door, not the back door. You know, I can live in my own terms. I live happy. I leave my family happy."
  – Fidel Rivera (62:55)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:29–13:50: Heather Gay, her hidden double life, and her daughters' differing memories
• 13:50–18:42: The family unites over revelations about the Keurig and their "bending-the-rules" Mormon identity
• 18:42–24:46: Background of the Rivera family, legal limbo, and immigration anxiety
• 24:46–34:59: The emotional fallout for parents and daughters, and secret family coping mechanisms
• 39:01–39:50: Bella cancels quinceañera, reflecting the dread of loss
• 41:52–47:26: Stalemate, family yelling, and Fidel’s decision to leave
• 51:02–55:23: Family meeting: should they move together or not?
• 56:06–59:54: The daughters process their sadness and regret
• 60:07–62:55: Preparing for life after Fidel leaves; Jenny and the kids adjust
• 62:55–64:07: Fidel’s farewell party, leaving on his terms

Tone and Style

The episode is intimate, at times funny, heart-wrenching, and always honest. Family members speak candidly, revealing the silent burdens they’ve carried and the ways those burdens create parallel narratives within a shared household. Ira Glass’ narration is warm and curious, approaching each family’s struggle with empathy and gentle humor. The guests’ voices, especially the teenagers, are endearingly frank and true to their ages.

Closing Reflection

"Under One Roof" masterfully captures the way secrets, love, fear, and hope can all live together in a household—sometimes in silence, sometimes in confrontation, always shaping the stories we tell about ourselves and one another. Whether it's the smell of illicit coffee or the looming threat of forced separation, every family faces their own version of divergent realities—often without even realizing it.