879: A Christian and a Muslim Walk Into a Bar

Summary

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This American Life – Episode 879: “A Christian and a Muslim Walk Into a Bar”

Date: January 18, 2026
Host: Ira Glass
Guest Reporter: Eamon Ogana
Featured Comedians: Sharif Hamzy (Muslim), Maliki Mardinali (Christian), Abu Aziz, and other members of the Styria comedy group

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Overview:

This episode chronicles the first nationwide stand-up comedy tour in Syria since the surprising overthrow of Bashar al-Assad’s regime. Reporter Eamon Ogana embeds with Styria, a comedy troupe led by Sharif Hamzy and Maliki Mardinali, as they navigate newfound freedoms—and new dangers—on the road, juggling political, religious, and cultural minefields in post-war Syria. The story captures the tense hope of a country tasting—and immediately testing—the boundaries of expression after decades of dictatorship.

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Key Themes and Structure

• Experimenting with Freedom: How comedians and Syrians at large are discovering what is now possible—and dangerous—to say or joke about.
• Censorship, Old and New: Worries about government and religious censorship even after Assad, showing how power and anxieties shift.
• Comedy as Resistance and Healing: Stand-up as both catharsis and test of the new political order.
• The Limits of Change: Despite new hopes, echoes of repression remain, and the rules keep shifting.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Comedy Under Dictatorship and in Transition

Sharif Hamzy’s Backstory and the Risk of Comedy

• Under Assad’s regime, jokes about the government meant jail or death.
• Sharif kept “dangerous” jokes in a folder labeled “Lebanon” and only performed them abroad.
  • “There is one joke... if I say it over here, we will get killed.” (Sharif Hamzy, 01:03)
• After the regime falls, there’s hope and uncertainty: can people joke about anything now?

The Overthrow and Uncertain New Freedoms

• Assad flees, and Islamist group HTS takes interim power—surprisingly, they say free speech is allowed.
• No established rulebook; comedians are unsure how far they can push.

Audience Reaction to New Freedom

• Many have lost loved ones or homes in the war.
  • “My house was destroyed and my brother was dead. My mother was dead. And you here in Damascus were having fun... so they cannot take the joke.” (Sharif Hamzy, 04:27)
• Comedy feels like both a privilege and a provocation.

2. The Styria Tour: Setting Out and Early Tensions

• Styria, named for “Syria + hysteria,” aims for 16 cities, from liberal Damascus to conservative and formerly ISIS-held territory.
• Comics debate what’s safe. Maliki Mardinali describes self-censorship:
  • “I don’t want any joke to be uncomfortable for them... So I’m going safe side this time.” (Maliki, 06:24)
  • Example: A government joke about soldiers wearing flip-flops is skipped.

Permit System and Boundaries

• The Ministry of Tourism allows political jokes but no “hate speech” or material that could “cause unrest”—including, often, any mention of religion or social issues.

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3. Tensions Ignite: The Hama & Maharde Dramas

Hama Show Cancelled

• The group is told locally that their show in conservative Hama is banned—for allegedly “supporting gay rights,” though the comedians never address this topic.
  • “They are assuming. We didn’t say anything about this kind of topic.” (Maliki, 13:19)
  • “Imagine, you cannot think about supporting any rights... we don’t know much.” (Sharif, 13:58)
• For Styria, Hama is a symbolic test: can a sold-out comedy show happen in a city with a bloody history of government repression?

Family Values and New Lines on Censorship (29:53)

• Maliki learns from the local sheikh that complaints are actually about “breaking bonds between families” with jokes about parents.
  • “They are affecting the people that watch this kind of shows, that we are a threat... to the family values.” (Maliki, 29:53)
  • “If I can’t speak on my dad, what should I speak for?” (Maliki, 30:01)
• Comedians feel the window for free speech is closing: “It’s like coming from dark to the light. Then we are slowly closing the window now.” (Maliki, 31:04)

Styria Goes Public

• The group realizes social media is a weapon. They post about the cancellations, hoping angry fans will pressure officials.

Escalation and Bureaucratic Retaliation

• Another member, Abu Aziz, vents online, comparing the new regime to the old one—making the officials furious.
  • “We’re back to how we were before,” Abu Aziz posts, risking severe backlash.

Maharde, a Christian Town—More Red Tape, More Pressure

• Even in Maharde, where the sheikh has no formal authority, pressure from Hama leads to new permit requirements: now it’s three ministries, not just one.
  • “I can't think of a place shitter than here... I hate this country. I swear to God, I hate it from the bottom of my heart.” (Maliki, 47:34)
• Eventually, out of fear and fatigue, venues bail and shows are canceled. Comedians are exhausted, angry, and demoralized.

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4. Behind the Scenes: The Comedians’ Stories

Sharif’s Past, and Root of His Defiance

• Sharif was jailed in Dubai for drugs, spent years writing comedy in prison.
  • “Be a great Stand up is the name of the book.” (23:39)
  • “Never Never Speak the plan. I used to talk a lot, man. This is what got me into shit.” (24:17)
• Left prison, determined to build a stand-up scene in Syria.

Maliki’s Path from Bank Clerk to Comedian

• Maliki stumbled into comedy at a bar on a dare; his first gig “the purest shit you’ll ever seen in your life.”
  • "'Shit, shit, shit, man. Pure shit.'" (Maliki, 28:07)
• Quit the bank, teamed up with Sharif, began organizing shows.

The On-Stage Material—Pushing and Redrawing the Boundaries

• In cities where they can perform, their material is more daring:
  • Sharif's “Asma al Assad’s bra” joke, a reference to the dictator’s wife’s breast cancer, would have gotten him jailed or killed under Assad.
    • “Don’t feel sorry for her. She have cancer, feel sorry for the cancer, he have a smile.” (Sharif, 17:11)

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5. Power, Protest, and “Negotiating” Freedom

The “Chess Game” with Authority

• The troupe see themselves as players in a chess match with the state: “It’s now our move on the chessboard. We have the media, we have the people, they have weapons.” (Maliki, 38:50)

Final Confrontation with the Political Affairs Officials

• Maliki and Abu Aziz are made to apologize in person to officials who lecture them about the dangers of “breaking civil peace.”
• New message from authorities: under Assad, you couldn’t joke about politics; now, politics is fair game, but don’t touch sex, religion, or family.
  • “From the start, all your jokes were about religion, sex, and sensitive topics that threaten civil peace.” (Officials, 54:00)
• Abu Aziz: “Yes. I regret my reaction and putting the story... if I do that with the old regime, I will be killed or forcibly disappeared.” (55:16)

Reporter’s Insight

• “It’s not the old terror, not real freedom either. The state will absolve you if you apologize... You can post, you can film, but you have to bow down to authority.” (Eamon, 55:44)
• "It seems to me like in Syria today, everyone has tasted freedom for the first time and they're not sure what to do with it. Even the government don't even know what to do with freedom." (Eamon, 56:19)

Denial, Spin, and the Real Lines of Power

• The sheikh denies cancelling the show after the fact. “I’m sorry, it’s a misunderstanding. Fuck you. I’m fucking your misunderstanding. Understand well, because... any misunderstanding can lead to blood.” (Maliki, 56:56)

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6. How It Ends: How Far Can You Go?

• Although Hama and Maharde are lost, the tour eventually proceeds to Aleppo, where both shows are allowed and sell out, suggesting boundaries are local and arbitrary.
• The Styria comedians keep testing the limits—and comedy, for now, keeps chipping at them.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On censorship, old and new:

  • “Under Assad, it was clear what they could not say. Now, there seemed to be no rulebook at all.” (Ira Glass, 03:17)

• On postwar bitterness:

  • “You hear in Damascus were having fun... you going to make people laugh. This is like luxury, you know, so they cannot take the joke.” (Sharif, 04:27)

• On new censorship lines:

  • “You are a threat to the family... If I can't speak on my dad, what should I speak for?” (Maliki, 29:53–30:01)

• On fleeting freedom:

  • “It’s like coming from dark to the light. Then we are slowly closing the window now... If it's better if I never had it.” (Maliki, 31:04)

• On defiance:

  • “If they want to stop, let them stop us. Kharas, if it's going to go to jail, please take me to jail. I miss it.” (Sharif, 33:12)

• On heartbreak:

  • “I feel sad because the people who got influenced, now they're using Bashar ways to... stop us from making people have some fun.” (Sharif, 49:22)

• On the strange new normal:

  • “It’s not the old terror, not real freedom either... You can post, you can film, but you have to bow down to authority...” (Eamon, 55:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:12 – Introduction to Sharif Hamzy and comedy under Assad
• 03:35 – Syrian revolution and new permission structures
• 05:41 – Styria’s tour launches in Safita
• 13:11 – Hama show banned over “gay rights” rumors
• 15:22 – The importance and risks of performing in Hama
• 17:06 – Sharif tells “Asma al-Assad’s bra” joke
• 20:39 – Tour returns to Damascus; anticipation of Hama drama
• 23:39 – Sharif’s prison story and vision for Syrian stand-up
• 29:53 – Sheikh cancels for “threat to family values”
• 34:01 – Final cancellation of Hama, escalation via social media
• 43:07 – Bureaucratic showdown in Maharde
• 49:22 – Emotional fallout as shows get cancelled
• 55:16 – Abu Aziz apologizes to officials
• 56:19 – Final reflections on learning to live with new freedoms
• 58:24 – Aleppo shows go on, comedy persists

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Flow and Takeaways

This American Life weaves Styria’s heartbreaking, funny, and defiant road trip—full of jokes, stress, jubilation, and fear—into a testament to Syria’s deeply uncertain present. The episode’s tone is candid, dryly comic, and emotionally raw, closely echoing the personalities of the comics themselves.

If you haven’t listened:
This episode powerfully captures a Syria in flux—where laughter, political upheaval, and trauma meet. For Styria (and their fans), every punchline is a test of what “freedom” really means, and whether it will last.

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Transcript

[Ira Glass]

This message comes from Sony Pictures Classics with the Coral, directed by Nicholas Hittner, written by Alan Bennett, starring Ralph Fiennes as a choir master in 1916.

[Eamon Ogana]

Yorkshire making music as war rages on.

[Ira Glass]

Now playing only in theaters. A quick warning. There are curse words that are unbeeped in today's episode of the show. If you prefer a beeped version, you can find that at our website, this americanlife.org Sharif Hamzy is a stand up comic in a place that's not really known for its comedy scene. Damascus, Syria. As maybe you've heard, the place was run by a dictator for a long time, Bashar al Assad. Back then, there were a lot of jokes that Sharif was not able to tell on stage. Definitely nothing about Assad or Assad's family, nothing about politics at all. Those kind of jokes could get you killed or disappeared into one of Assad's infamous prisons. So during those years, Sharif kept jokes like that in a folder on his computer labeled Lebanon because he pretty much only felt safe telling them when he would take trips abroad.

[Sharif Hamzy]

There is one joke. Well, I raf this joke, I want to bring it back. But there is one joke I used to say when I go to Lebanon. Like, listen, we have a lot of problem, but you don't have a president, and our problem is that we have one. So maybe if you take him, you can rent him for a bit and if you like him, you can keep him. You cannot say anything like this, man, that joke, if I say it over here, we will get killed. There is no joke with them.

[Ira Glass]

Bashar al Assad's family ruled Syria for 53 years, the last 13 of which were a brutal civil war. Over 300,000 Syrian civilians died. Then a year ago, to everybody's surprise, a bunch of rebel groups overthrew the regime in just 12 days. Assad, his wife Asma and their family flew to Russia. The rebels were led by an Islamist group called Hayet Tahrir Al Sham, HTS for short. And then the new people in power surprised everybody again by not immediately becoming another repressive regime. HTS leader Ahmad Al Sharah says he's acting as interim president and has promised to hold elections in the next few years. Syrians have been experiencing a freedom they have not experienced before. I had dinner a couple weeks ago with somebody who was just there and they were talking about how kind of inspiring it is to be there right now. She met lots of people who were moving back, ready and excited to rebuild their country. But at the same time, parts of Syria are still Violent. There was fighting this month in and around Aleppo. Over 150,000 people were displaced. In July, Sharif had to cancel a show in a city called Suwayda because of a massacre there. 800 people were killed. And then in October, in the middle of this chaos and hope, Sharif and the other comedians in his comedy group, the group is called Styria, decided to go on Tour. They planned 16 cities in 21 days all over Syria, in conservative regions, in liberal areas like Damascus, areas under Kurdish control, and areas that were once under ISIS control. And they really weren't sure how this was going to go. Nobody had ever done this. And this is the tricky part. Under the dictator, it was clear what they could not say on stage. But now there seemed to be no rulebook at all. If anything, the new government was saying, go ahead, you can make jokes about us. We're different from the old regime. But the comedians didn't know if they could trust that. And then beyond that, there are lots of just very conservative, very religious people around Syria. Some of them are figures of authority in towns and provinces. The comedians wondered how they would react to things they heard on stage. They worried about random hotheads hearing about them and things they said deciding to show up with a gun. Even before they left, they got death threats in their DMs, stuff like, if.

[Sharif Hamzy]

You ever talk about the revolution, we're gonna come kill you one by one, and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[Ira Glass]

These messages freaked Sharif out, but he got where they were coming from. The country's been through 13 years of war. He and most of the other comedians are from Damascus, the city that saw the least of the fighting because it was controlled by the regime. By Syrian standards, they're the soft liberals.

[Sharif Hamzy]

I understand, because some people, man, they. They see what we do as a luxury. My house was destroyed and my brother was dead. My mother was dead. And you here in Damascus were having fun. You didn't have anything wrong, and you going to make people laugh. This is like luxury, you know, so they cannot take the joke. And I understand they have the right to be sad.

[Ira Glass]

Any comedy show in Syria right now, for everybody, comedians, the audience, they're all figuring out what's okay to say out loud. Eamon Ogana, a reporter based in Damascus, heard about all this, and he also was very curious to see what the comedians could get away with and whether they would even get all the way through the tour. He hung out with them on tour for two weeks on long van rides across Syria, backstage at their shows. Lots of stuff ended up happening, stuff I think it's safe to say they did not see coming from WBEZ Chicago, CIS American Life, I'm Ira Glass. We hit the road with these comedians today. And with that introduction, here's Eamon with Act one, an actor calling too soon.

[Eamon Ogana]

I meet up with the comedians in Safita, a city about three hours drive north of Damascus. They're in a shared apartment that doubles as a green room. The venue owner let them all crash for free. There are several mattresses to a room, suitcases under the beds. And the comics are walking in and out of rooms, getting ready and telling jokes to warm up.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Hello. I need to get naked.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki is Maliky Mardinali, one of the founders of the group along with Sharif.

[Sharif Hamzy]

If I ask him anything, where he's.

[Eamon Ogana]

Dressing, okay, Malachi, while you're dressing, I'm going to ask you the same question I just asked Sharif. Is there a joke you're thinking of saying tonight that you're not sure if you want to say it? That might be a bit dangerous.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Actually there was a few, but few minutes ago we were speaking about it here. The audience is new to this, this kind of art, you know. So I don't want any joke to be uncomfortable for them, you know. So I'm going safe side this time. I feel if I say something on the government, it would be a little bit dangerous. They will not feel comfortable, you know, something like this for the sensitivity of this place, not because we don't. We can't say it, you know, but here I don't know how they will react to it.

[Eamon Ogana]

And what is the joke you're not sure about telling?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Maybe something about how the Ministry of Defense dress. They don't wear shoes, they only wear the flip flops, you know, that's how they fight. I feel something like this. It's a lot dangerous to see someone feats in a war, you know.

[Eamon Ogana]

This is actually a joke about the current government. That there is such a ragtag army that they came to power in flip flops. Comedy and poetry are probably the hardest things to translate from any language.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I swear to God, in Arabic it's very funny. Just anyone is hearing us right now. It is funny in Arabic. You should learn Arabic and come and watch the show.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki plays it safe that night in Safita he skips the flip flop joke. Styria is a small crew, around 20 comics. Two of them are women. Some still keep their day jobs. There's a dentist, a university lecturer, an engineer, students. They are mostly in their 20s and 30s. The group's name, Styria, is a combination of Syria plus hysteria, because that's what it felt like to laugh in Syria when the group got together three years ago. A manic release. Sharif and Maliki do this full time. Sharif is the group's spiritual leader, the one who used to have a folder labeled Lebanon. He's got a laid back, stoner vibe, covered in tattoos, light beard, 33 years old. Maliki is the one running the tour. He's 29 years old, with dark hair and a cheeky grin. He's the Paul McCartney to Shareef's John Lennon. More tightly wound, he's the fixer, lining up venues, negotiating with government officials, driving the van, keeping track of permits, schedules, and constantly updating the list of things that could go wrong. He worries out loud, cracks jokes as he does it, a kind of nervous humor that makes it clear he's holding the whole operation together. He actually thinks they're going to be fine on this tour.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I don't think something bad will happen to us because nobody cares about it. State the obvious. Nobody cares about who the we are. I'm not like a superstar. I'm not George Clooney on the tour. Melki, he's Sharif, that's Khaled, that's Aziz. Nobody cares about us. Nothing bad will happen to us. A few people telling some jokes. Let them.

[Eamon Ogana]

But there are two stops on the tour he's worried about.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I'm most scared of Salepo and Hamas. Aleppo and Hamados, two cities are very dangerous. Very dangerous. Oof, man. So we have to be careful dealing with. I don't know, the mines on the. I don't know what. It's the term.

[Eamon Ogana]

Minefield.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Minefield, yes. Yes. So it's a minefield in Hama.

[Eamon Ogana]

Hama is a conservative city. Stop 7 on the tour. Aleppo is stop 9, a city divided by different factions. Before they could go on the tour, Maliki had to sign what he translates as an obligation with the Ministry of Tourism. A pledge to avoid certain jokes. Unlike during the old Assad regime, they're allowed to make fun of the current leaders. The pledge is a promise not to use hate speech and to avoid jokes that could rile people up and cause civil unrest. Like jokes about religion. It's a written commitment tied to the permit. If they breach it, the Ministry of Tourism can cancel the show or penalize the group. The first four shows go pretty smoothly, playing in mostly liberal towns where they didn't expect problems. One gets oversold because the app they use to sell tickets makes malfunctions which is a huge pain in the ass. But mostly it's sold out rooms. So far, so good. Stop five on the tour. Latakia, A sunny port city with a beachfront and blue Mediterranean waters. Fish restaurants and clubs line the shore. It's been called the Miami of Syria, and it would be, except for what happened here last March, when sectarian violence killed around 1500 people. That's the stage the comedians are walking into tonight. Fun, but tense. Okay, it's Wednesday, the 15th of October. We're in Latakia. We're just arriving at the venue to see Sharif Maliki and the guys as they set up. It's a beautiful venue, overlooking the sea, my friend.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Hello.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Welcome.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Welcome.

[Eamon Ogana]

Hi, everyone.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Hi.

[Eamon Ogana]

How are you?

[Sharif Hamzy]

Good.

[Eamon Ogana]

What's happening?

[Sharif Hamzy]

We're preparing for the show.

[Eamon Ogana]

Sharif is unloading equipment and making sure everything is in place, working. Maliki is putting up posters and banners at the entrance.

[Sharif Hamzy]

I told you, we're the logistics. We're the reservation. We are the comedian, we are the management. We are the president of Syria. The same. We are Syria. So we're preparing the show and we just learn we might have. We cannot do our show in Hama.

[Eamon Ogana]

Hama, One of the cities Maliki was worried about.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Man, this is insane. This is insane. This is crazy.

[Eamon Ogana]

You're pissed off?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yeah, very. Very, man. Very angry about it.

[Eamon Ogana]

They had gotten a call from their fixer and Hammer, the guy setting up their show there. He said he had gone to pay the fees for the show, but was told the local government and Hammer wasn't.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Going to allow it because we got a report that we are. This is a new prepare. It's fresh. We are supporting the gay rights in Syria or in Hama.

[Eamon Ogana]

Why?

[Sharif Hamzy]

We don't know. Like, the one who's preparing the venue in Hama, they send him to the.

[Maliki Mardinali]

They are assuming we didn't say anything about this kind of topic.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Like, Melki talked to the guy in the government. Tell him, bro, like, this is really offensive. Like, if you tell me I'm threatening the people, the religion, anything. I'm talking against politics. I understand, but gay rights? Why? Like when? So we don't know.

[Eamon Ogana]

The Styria comedians can talk about whatever they want in their sets. Their only rule is no hate speech. But still, nobody campaigns for any rights of any kind in their shows.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Listen, imagine, like, you cannot think about supporting any rights. Like, you see gay rights, vegetarian. Right. Any right. So the idea. We don't know much.

[Eamon Ogana]

They care about Hama because it's symbolic. A full house in A town with a conservative reputation. A real test of what they can or can't say in the new Syria. They weren't even going to play Hama when they planned the tour. Too conservative. Too many ways it could go wrong. This is the place where in 1982, Hafez Al Assad, Bashar's father, crushed the Muslim Brotherhood uprising. Thousands were killed. Many disappeared. People there still carry that history. It shapes what you can say in a room. But then a fan of the group DM'd Sharif, begging him to come. We like you here, we want you here. We want to change the conservative stereotype of our city. So Sharif said, okay, fuck it, let's do Hammer. They figured if they could play Hammer, it could open the doors to other conservative cities too. And they sold out The Hammer Show. 230 tickets. It's Wednesday. The Hammer show is supposed to happen Monday. So Maliki calls the guy in charge of culture in Hammer, a local bureaucrat. He calls the sheikh to convince the sheikh to not cancel the show.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I am beyond worrying right now. My mind in Hama that night.

[Eamon Ogana]

They still have a show to do. It's a simple format. Six comedians, seven minutes each. The room is full, maybe 2, 300 people. Maliki opens the show. He asked the audience not to take videos or photos or post on social media because they just got in trouble with the government for promoting homosexuality. Maliki tells a version of the flip flop joke, how security forces have been fighting for 14 years but keep their toes out. It gets a big laugh. Then he hands the mic over to Sharif.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Hamza.

[Eamon Ogana]

Sharif tells a joke that definitely would have gotten him into trouble under the Assad regime. It shows you how much things have changed in Syria this last year. It's about Asma al Assad, the dictator's wife, who had breast cancer. Technically, it's about her bra. Here's the setup. December 8, 2024. The Assads flee for Russia. Syrians go to the abandoned presidential palace to loot it, taking little trophies, souvenirs.

[Sharif Hamzy]

So in that joke, I say, people went to Bashar al Assad to steal some watches, some expensive painting. Me, I go, what? I get Asmal Asad bra. And I have it. One piece.

[Eamon Ogana]

He holds up half of a bra. The other half is missing because she.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Got one breast taken because she had cancer. And people start to laugh and feel shy. And I say, don't, don't feel sorry about her. She have cancer, feel sorry for the cancer. He have a smile. And people say, I love this joke.

[Eamon Ogana]

Biggest laugh of the night. Afterwards, I talked to a few members of the audience. How was the show tonight?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Tremendous. Extraordinary. I haven't witnessed anything the same in my life.

[Eamon Ogana]

It was amazing. It was unbelievable.

[Maliki Mardinali]

It's.

[Eamon Ogana]

No one expected this. They say things that you cannot say, especially in Latakia. They're amazing. One guy said he was depressed before.

[Maliki Mardinali]

The show, but after five minutes in the show, I felt myself like flying in the night sky.

[Eamon Ogana]

The only criticism I heard was that they were not political enough. I would like to hear more about politics because the more you talk about.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Politics, the more you are free. I don't think that in the coming years they will be able to mention this.

[Eamon Ogana]

I don't believe that they are going.

[Maliki Mardinali]

To be free like this. I feel that Syria now is going.

[Eamon Ogana]

To be like the Assad period. Some Syrians have told me that they feel as though they're speaking on borrowed time. They're happy the old regime is gone, but are unsure about the future. Syrians are setting precedents for what can be said post by post, room by room. But maybe it's a bubble. They can joke for now, but there's real trepidation about what comes next. By the end of the night, the comedians haven't heard back from the sheik. The fate of the Hammer show is still on the line.

[Ira Glass]

Iman Okana Coming up, the comedians head into Hama province, the sheikh's province. And the sheikh brings all the boys to the yard. Figuratively, I mean. Stay with us. Support for this American life comes from ukg. UKG is the workforce operating platform that puts workforce understanding to work with a large collection of workforce Insights and People First. AI UKG's HR, pay and workforce management tools help business leaders build trust, amplify productivity and empower their people. Because when work works, everything works. Learn [e-mail] Work UKG, HR Pay and Workforce Management. This message comes from the Capital One Savor card. With Savor, you earn unlimited 3% cash back on dining, entertainment and at grocery stores. That's unlimited cash back on ordering takeout from home. So grab a bite, grab a seat and earn unlimited 3% cash back with the Savor Card. Capital One, what's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com for details. Just American Life if you just tuned in, reporter Eamon Ogana hit the road with a group of Syrian comedians on their first nationwide tour since the Assad regime fell a year ago. We have arrived at Act 2, the drama in Hama. Here's Eamon.

[Eamon Ogana]

The comedians have a two day break after Latakia. So they go back to Damascus to recuperate. They still don't know what's going to happen with their show and Hammer. I meet up with them at Sharif's place in Damascus, his family's house. It's big in a nice leafy neighborhood. How are you feeling?

[Sharif Hamzy]

I need massage anymore.

[Eamon Ogana]

Sharif's parents are drinking tea in the living room with his aunt and uncle.

[Sharif Hamzy]

This is my place. This is my room. This is my family, my mother.

[Eamon Ogana]

We step into Sharif's bedroom, the operating base for Styria. Maliki. Sharif and Omar, another founding comedian, have all kicked off their shoes and are drinking coffee and discussing what's to come. They are waiting for the Sheikh to call with an update on Hammer. Maliki's phone stays face up on the table. Psychedelic stoner posters are taped to the wall. A desktop computer obscures the window. A few childish pictures sit on the mantel. Maliki points to them. A Harry Potter poster and a painting made by a small child.

[Maliki Mardinali]

That's from Karim Al Assad room. Sons of the Shah.

[Eamon Ogana]

Oh, wow. So this is taken from the palace?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes.

[Sharif Hamzy]

And I have few stuff also from his house. What we get also Malky, I get from his house. I took shitty stuff. Not something with the. It value to me more than its value in the real world, you know, because that day was magnificent, man. Yeah, yeah. I say this in my standup. I said, I really hope we don't have to feel this feeling again of us getting liberated. Because in order to feel it again, another dictator would have to come. So in that day I felt totally free. It was total chaos, man. Like I spent from six o' clock until six at the evening. I was outside in the road with my friend celebrating. We went to Al Assad home, you see, I have his bra, his painting and stuff. We went to the parliament, to the Ministry of Defense. His wife.

[Eamon Ogana]

So that's really his wife's brother. You're not kidding?

[Sharif Hamzy]

Yeah, I'm not kidding. I brought shitty stuff for me. I had. And the half of the bra, I give it to my girlfriend, my ex girlfriend, because I thought you were joking. No, no, no. It's a real shit. I turn it into a joke. Let me show you. Let me show you the book of my stand up comedy when I was inside. It's here.

[Eamon Ogana]

When Sharif says he was inside, he means prison. Sharif was jailed in Dubai for a little more than three years from 2018 to 2021. He hands me a paperback book with a worn cover.

[Sharif Hamzy]

So this was with me in the inside See what I write.

[Eamon Ogana]

Be a great Stand up is the name of the book. Oh, wow. It's covered in handwritten notes. This is your notes?

[Sharif Hamzy]

This is my notes. This is me writing Stand up in the inside.

[Eamon Ogana]

So you're inside your cell just reading about comedy and writing in this book?

[Sharif Hamzy]

Yeah, yeah. I can show you. I can show you a book where I write it, what I want to do when I was. I'm gonna go.

[Eamon Ogana]

So this is a notepad you had in prison.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Yeah. And you can see in English I say new laptop writing and Stand up comedy. And I read here some gem. Never Never Speak the plan.

[Eamon Ogana]

What's Never Never Speak the Plan?

[Sharif Hamzy]

I used to talk a lot, man. This is what got me into shit.

[Eamon Ogana]

The shit is a narcotics charge. Sharif was dealing drugs in Dubai and got caught by the authorities.

[Sharif Hamzy]

I got greedy and I got caught by a kameen by an ambush. And they gave me marked money and it was all a play and all a game. I was the one who burned.

[Eamon Ogana]

According to court documents, Sharif sold drugs to an undercover cop. A snitch had tipped off the police. He was arrested and given a life sentence, which in the UAE is a common penalty for drug offenses, no matter how small. He says he got out because his father wrote a mercy petition, a letter to the prosecutor begging to let him go.

[Sharif Hamzy]

My name was 71. It was 70 people who meant to go out and they added my name after three years and three months and thank God.

[Eamon Ogana]

And then you came out and you were like, I know what I want to do. I'm going to be a comedian.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Actually, the first year I was an animal.

[Eamon Ogana]

What do you mean?

[Sharif Hamzy]

You know, your basic, I want to eat, I want to have sex, I want to hear some music. It was taken from me. And after nine months I was going into them the same cycle that get me into jail.

[Eamon Ogana]

A friend called him out for how he was acting. Sharif said, enough and broke the cycle by focusing on saving money for his comedy dream, taking any job he could.

[Sharif Hamzy]

And when that happened, everything started to happen. Like someone asked me to do stand up comedy between parties and stuff. And I was like, I want to do this. And I thought, is it possible in all Syria, in all the dark humor and shit we have, I am the only one in Syria or Damascus that want to do stand up comedy. Just let me put the news out and see who is are interested. Like, I needed a team too, so I can start, so we can do something.

[Eamon Ogana]

That's how he met Malachi. They both grew up in Damascus. Sharif is Muslim Maliki is Christian. They had mutual friends but didn't know each other. Maliki was working in a bank at the time, but they both dreamt of being stand up comedians. Here's Sharif.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Someone sent me his Facebook and I went to research his Facebook. He had some bad content on Q Media. Then I find him start to do stand up comedy. He tried in 2020 alone.

[Eamon Ogana]

How do you start to do stand up comedy on your own?

[Maliki Mardinali]

I don't know. I don't know.

[Eamon Ogana]

You just got up in the bar.

[Maliki Mardinali]

And actually, actually this is a very good one. I don't know if I told the guys of it. Kamal, my friend, we were having a drink in Mad Monkey Pop. So we were talking and I'm. I don't know, I'm just saying stories and something like this. He started to laugh very hard. So he called Bisan, the owner of that place, and told her that I should start doing stand up comedy at her venues. She refused it, of course.

[Eamon Ogana]

But then a week or so later, the owner of the bar changed her mind. Maliki's friend called and told him. And that was just because you were like a funny guy and people thought you.

[Ira Glass]

That's it.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I don't know shit about stand up at that time. Like I'm coming from NGOs and bank, bank ground, you know.

[Eamon Ogana]

So you, you worked in a bank but you told jokes to your friends.

[Maliki Mardinali]

And your friends were like, yes, yes. Most, most of my jokes come from that. I'm a good roster at the bank.

[Sharif Hamzy]

So.

[Eamon Ogana]

And how did it go at Mad Monkey, your first gig?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Shit, shit, shit, man. Pure shit. It's the purest shit you'll ever seen in your life.

[Eamon Ogana]

The people laugh.

[Maliki Mardinali]

The people were sick, not laugh. They told B sound. Come on, turn. The.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki had decided to quit the bank. Tired of counting other people's money. And out of the blue, Sharif called him to invite him to a stand up workshop he was hosting.

[Maliki Mardinali]

At the same day, man. At the same day. 2pm I signed that paper. 4pm Sharif called me at the same day.

[Sharif Hamzy]

I remember when I called, he said, I cannot come at this time.

[Maliki Mardinali]

This is the Sheikh.

[Eamon Ogana]

The shaykh is calling Maliki. Now Maliki answers the phone. Sharif paces the room, smoking and listening carefully. The call lasts about 15 minutes.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Oh my God.

[Eamon Ogana]

So what just happened, Maliki?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Oh my God, man. This is insane. This is 15 minutes on the phone, just to talk, just to say that you are not allowed to do your stand up in Hama, okay? After, after this con, he will reconsider.

[Eamon Ogana]

The things what the Sheikh said in the call was that he didn't know who cancelled the show, but he understood why someone would cancel it. He'd actually seen their set in Mokhadi a few months back, and he thought some of the content was inappropriate, and certainly it would be for Hammer, but not because of anything to do with LGBTQ material. So what were the kind of things he was saying to you?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Man, this is insane. He told me that you can't say your material in Hama because it's offensive to the family values, because we are talking about our parents. So he felt that they are breaking the bonds between the families. They are affecting the people that watch this kind of shows, that we are a threat. That's how we are a threat to the family, you know, we are a threat to the family values. This is much more insane than the LGBTQ support thing, man. This is really new, man. This is really new. All of us have jokes on our parents, man. Everybody. This is insane. It's my dad, man. It's my dad. If I can't speak on my dad, what should I speak for? What I should I speak? This is my family. This is my. My culture. This is. We are doing stand up comedy for the Sheikh, not for the people. You know, this is how things are now going. The first three months we had freedom.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Yeah.

[Eamon Ogana]

What was that like?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Amazing. It's like coming from dark to the light. Then we are slowly closing the window now. Slowly closing the door. Slowly closing the curtains. This is. This is bad. This is bad.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Like if. It's better if I never had it.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Wow, you know? Wow.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Oh, shit, here we go again. You know, oh, shit, here we go. Another Assad regime on the call.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki told the sheik they wanted to perform in Hamas to show that Hama isn't just some strict and conservative city where nothing happens. The Sheikh said he'd look into it and get back to them with a final answer soon. So he's going to call back in a few hours with his decision.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I think he will call the Brothers.

[Eamon Ogana]

The Brothers is Malik's sardonic way of referring to the Islamist officials now running things.

[Maliki Mardinali]

They will call the Brotherhood. He will call them and will have their advice.

[Eamon Ogana]

The next day, we hit the road again, Piling into a bright yellow van with stickers lining the sides saying Styria in the font of Grand Theft Auto. Maliki is driving. Sharif sits behind him. There's so much equipment in the back that Maliki can't see out the rear window. It's about three Hours to Salamiya stop. Six on the tour, depending on checkpoints. What's the latest with the Sheikh?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Sherif sent me a screenshot that he is pushing also in Muhardi to stop you.

[Eamon Ogana]

Yes, Muhardi is the show tomorrow night. The Sheikh is now saying that show might be cancelled as well.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I think a few hours. I'm gonna make some phone calls to understand what the hell is going on.

[Eamon Ogana]

And what's your strategy with the Sheikh? How are you going to convince him or control him or influence him?

[Sharif Hamzy]

He's going to turn to Islam.

[Eamon Ogana]

You got to convert to Islam.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I hope I don't have to, because if the Sheikh didn't kill me, my parents will. So I'm dead either here or there.

[Sharif Hamzy]

I told them. I told him we were not stop. So if they want to stop, let them stop us. Kharas, if it's going to go to jail, please take me to jail. I miss it.

[Eamon Ogana]

And with all this drama, do you want to perform in Hama?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes. Our show is sold out in Hama, man. There is 200 people right now. The only entertainment they have here is us so far, beside killing each other, you know? So we are a must, not a need.

[Eamon Ogana]

A few minutes later, still on the road to Salamiya, Maliki gets a text.

[Maliki Mardinali]

The Sheikh just texted me that not going to be a show in Hamas. This is final decision.

[Eamon Ogana]

So what are you going to do?

[Maliki Mardinali]

We're going to tell the people in Hama to come to our show in.

[Eamon Ogana]

Are you going to tell them why?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes, of course I'm going to tell them why.

[Eamon Ogana]

For them, this isn't over. They could let it go, but Maliki won't. They decide to test the limits another way, make it public and see who's stronger right now, the government or the people. They want to use public opinion to force them to reinstate the show. The Syria comedians are all pretty young. They think in TikTok and Instagram. They believe a big enough online following will give them protection from government officials trying to silence them. They have hundreds of thousands of followers on Instagram. Syria's revolutionaries also use social media to rise to power. But now that they run things, they fear it. Fear posts that inflame sectarian tempers, fear looking weak. At the same time, they don't want to look like the old regime, repressive and censoring in public. So they pressure quietly in private, and the comedians answer loudly online. Maliki and Sharif go on the offensive. They post that the Hammer show is cancelled and tell Hammer fans to come to Moharde instead. They'll add seats, they'll arrange buses. They're trying to turn the followers into force. It's a respectful post, not calling anyone out, but they figure their fans will understand why it was cancelled, get pissed off and put pressure on the government. But then one of the other comedians, Abu Aziz, goes rogue on his personal Instagram account.

[Maliki Mardinali]

So Abu Aziz, you know him. Aziz is much a crazy. He's not diplomatic, you know, he's not diplomatic. Very, very stupid and very Abaziz, you.

[Eamon Ogana]

Know, On Instagram, Abu Aziz goes off. He rants about the Secretariat for Political affairs and Hammer says they accused the troupe of LGBTQ content and of being a threat to family values. He blames them for canceling Hama. We're back to how we were before, he says, which sounds pretty mild. But he's comparing the new government to the old regime, which is dangerous. Abu aziz has nearly 300,000 followers. Him posting online left some in the group nervous but excited. Maliki and Sharif. The comments start right away, angry at the government. Word gets back. Someone from Political affairs calls Abu Aziz. Political affairs also contacts the Sheikh. The Sheikh calls Maliki. Maliki doesn't pick up, so the Sheikh follows with the text.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I didn't answer the same. I will let him. Khalas, we have canceled this show. Then when?

[Sharif Hamzy]

In an hour, I think. In an hour. Answer him.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I think I will now leave him in half an hour. Let things boil up, you know. So leave him now. I think an hour later, or maybe in the evening, they will tell us, do your show in Hama.

[Eamon Ogana]

Some members of the group are worried by the strategy, wishing they had been consulted first. But almost as quickly as they stir up the online shitstorm, Sharif gets a text from the Hammer venue owner. No matter what, he won't let them use the venue. It's not worth it to him. He's scared of a visit from the authorities, a fine, a lost license, a knock at the door, or worse, an attack. Maliki and Sharif have officially lost the battle for Hammer. They're still trying to direct people to come to the Mahade show instead, but now that might be cancelled as well. They play Salamiya that night. It goes great. Standing ovation. Then after the show, a call from the Ministry of Media. This guy is furious about Abu Aziz's post and tries to stop the show they've just finished. Are you worried they're going to stop Rava shows?

[Maliki Mardinali]

No. Tomorrow it's going to be Mahdi. No, they are not going to come To Mahra Day. Maybe they will do some phone calls and that's it. It's now our move on the chessboard. It's now our move. We have the media, we have the people, they have weapons. Yes.

[Eamon Ogana]

So Abuziz is very powerful chess piece.

[Maliki Mardinali]

No, he's very Tash. We call it that. The one who like a tank, you know, this is the first who come into the battle and then people come like snipers and military. Everything is a war. Yeah. In Syria everything is a war. Even the art is a worrying.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki isn't worried about the show in Muhardi. He tells me it's a Christian town, so the sheikh has no power there.

[Ira Glass]

Eamon Ogana, coming up, Mujarda, she wrote the comedy show moves on to Mojarda. That's in a minute from Chicago Public Radio. When our program continues. This is American Life. Myra Glass. Today's show, A Christian and a Muslim walk into a bar. We pick up with a reporter, Eamon Ogana and the comedians of Styria on their tour of the country for act three, an actual calling. Is this thing on?

[Eamon Ogana]

It's morning. We're back in the van heading from Salamiya to Mojarde. A show they hope will still happen and where a busload of fans from Hammer will join them. We pass a car with a rocket launcher on the roof. Monuments of Syria's bloody war still dot the roads. We see bombed out buildings and burnt out cars on the way. We have a system for checkpoints. Maliki flashes a big smile and I hide my recording equipment under a coat. Maliki is flying high this morning. We're leaving the more conservative Sunni Muslim areas and heading to a Christian town. Christians are a minority in Syria, about 10% before the war. And Maliki is Christian. He's relaxed, in shorts, grinning as he drives. This is Mahardir. Yes.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Welcome to the Christian people. You I'm with you. Hallelujah. Now we are safe. Now we are safe from HTS and all the governments. This is a Christian country here. This is a Christian land. No Muslim is allowed to go here. Ayman, are you Christian?

[Sharif Hamzy]

I am, yes.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Welcome home.

[Eamon Ogana]

We get into town, go into a cafe. Malki, have you heard from anyone who's from Hama? Who's taking the bus tonight?

[Maliki Mardinali]

I don't know, but I think there is 40, 50 people, something like this. I feel that when the evening come it would be 60 or I think 70, something like this. I hope it's going to be good. This is where we drink a lot. This is the place. They are very, very, very generous. Very generous here, because they are Christian.

[Eamon Ogana]

Everyone is happy. Smiling. They order pizza. I go back to.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I love this song.

[Eamon Ogana]

But an hour later, the mood changes. Maliki looks distressed. He has changed back into jeans as conservative Syrians frown upon men wearing shorts. We get back into the car with the venue owner for the show tonight. Okay, Maliki, tell me exactly what's happening.

[Maliki Mardinali]

A lot happening. A lot. Let me think about it first. Then I will talk to you. Just to.

[Eamon Ogana]

The venue owner has gotten a call from the local government in Maharde asking him to come in for a meeting. We drive to the local municipal building. I walk with Maliki, but get stopped at the stairwell while Maliki and the venue owner go into an office. A few minutes later, Maliki comes back and says, I can come in.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Please give it to the boys outside.

[Eamon Ogana]

Give what?

[Maliki Mardinali]

The recording? Yes, recording. And the headset.

[Eamon Ogana]

I can listen.

[Maliki Mardinali]

And your bag also.

[Eamon Ogana]

Okay. They take my bag, the recorder, everyone's phones. There are two government men inside the office. Beards, shaved moustaches, military outfits. They look straight out of Central Casting, but they're polite. One asks if we want coffee. Another then brings glass cups of Nescafe. Three in one. A sugary instant coffee, ubiquitous across the Middle East. My translator waits downstairs, so I don't follow everything. But one of the government guys says he recognizes me. I'd covered the Syrian war and we had been in the same towns in Idlib province. Malachi later jokes that 10 years ago they may have kidnapped me. It's a different country to report in now. I watch the room. The older one sits behind a desk, does most of the talking. Eventually, another brings in a piece of paper and beckons the venue owner to come to him. The owner is nervous and doesn't hesitate to sign it. Maliki explained to me what was going on afterwards.

[Maliki Mardinali]

They were very angry. So they told us that we can do our show in because there is no permission from Hama Political Affairs. So now we are making some phone calls to have that permission. I hope to have it.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki had miscalculated. He figured that because Mahaday is a Christian town, the sheikh and the local Hama government wouldn't have reach here. But instead, the local politicians in Mohade are telling them if they want to do tonight's show in Mojade, they need to get permission from the sheikh and the other bureaucrats in Hama. The ones they started a battle with yesterday. The ones now threatening a libel case. What was it? They made the owner Sign.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Obligation, saying he promises that. He promises that he won't let us do the show without written permission from their office.

[Eamon Ogana]

Has this ever happened before to you?

[Maliki Mardinali]

No. No.

[Eamon Ogana]

When you arrived in Muharday, you were like, we're free now. No one can stop us. So how do you feel now?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Shit, shit, shit. They have more power than I thought here. This is dangerous. Yesterday they were very upset with us doing the show in Salami. So now they will prevent us from doing the show here. I don't know what things would happen the next few hours.

[Eamon Ogana]

Their only path tonight is persistence. If they can get permission from the Hammer officials. Abu Aziz just insulted. They can still go on. In Maharde. It's 3:15pm the show is at 7. It's sold out. Buses of fans are supposed to come from Hamas. We get in the car, me, Maliki and the venue owner, and head towards Hammer to try to talk to the politicians and see if there's any way to save tonight's show in Mojada. Ten minutes out, the venue owner answers his phone. I can't tell what the call is about, but he goes quiet, then asks us to turn back. We head back to Mojada, to the same cafe. Maliki smokes a cigarette on the street outside, defeated. Why did we turn back from Hammer?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Because they started to hurt him. Now they start to hit him. I'm sorry, man. I have to stop this because I'm very tired now.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki later told me that the venue owner got a call from his dad. The government is also putting pressure on him. Real enough pressure that he got scared and didn't want to cause more trouble by heading to Hammer. To make matters worse, on the way back, Maliki also gets a call. First they've been told they needed permission from the Political affairs office in Hama to run the Mahade show. Now the bar moves even farther away from them. Officials are now saying they need three permissions from Political affairs and also from the Ministries of Tourism and Culture. And the guy running the local office of the Ministry of Culture is the Sheikh. All because of what? What have you guys said or done?

[Maliki Mardinali]

This is because of jokes? Yes, this is because of jokes. I. I can't think of a place shitter than here. No. I hate this country. I swear to God, I hate it from the bottom of my heart. No, this is a message that you don't play with us.

[Eamon Ogana]

They think you're troublemakers.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes, yes. For them, this is insane. This is insane. I'm tired now. Mentally and physically tired. I'm Using all my connections. And when I do, When I put nine on the table, they put 10. I put in a guy, they put a queen, I put the king, they put an ace. So it's. It's always, We're gonna wait one more hour and then we will know what to do. We need an hour. I think, Man, I don't know what to do. I don't want to be a fighter. I want to be an agreement.

[Eamon Ogana]

Well, you want to be a comedian, and you can't do that.

[Maliki Mardinali]

This is the last thing I think of right now, Max. I swear to God, this is the last thing I think of.

[Eamon Ogana]

Maliki hasn't eaten since yesterday. He's running on coffee and cigarettes. He's getting impatient with my questions. He and the other comedians start talking in Arabic around a crowded table. The conversation is heated. I find Sharif outside the cafe emotional. Okay, man, I can see you have tears in your eyes. You're upset.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Walaya, bro, I feel sad. You know, I'm sad because the people who got influenced, now they're using Bashar ways to and Bashar law to stop us from. From making people have some fun.

[Eamon Ogana]

Yeah. How is freedom of expression working out for you in Syria now?

[Sharif Hamzy]

It's not working like at all. Like, it's not working. And the thing are working as not freedom are who have the bigger balls.

[Eamon Ogana]

How are the other guys taking the news?

[Sharif Hamzy]

Some of them are scared. Some of them. Qasim imagine he's scared. He's a doctor in the university. He's scared that might reach him in a way that they will let him go from the university. Other want to make money. Other want to make fame. Other want to make the project continue. It's their own right to feel and do whatever they want. But for me, I push by myself. Yeah. So let's.

[Eamon Ogana]

But soon after this conversation, they call it. Maliki can't secure the free permissions in time, so they're forced to cancel. Just three hours before showtime. They post on Styria's Instagram that the show's off due to unforeseen circumstances and tell people they'll refund tickets. Now they're worried the government is also going to cancel their show in Aleppo, which is two days away. I find them hours later in Sharif's hotel room. One of the other comedians is giving Sharif a massage. So I see you guys are promoting LGBTQ that night. Instead of doing their show, they get drunk and dance until three in the morning. The next day. The politicians in Hama want Abu Aziz to bend the Knee. Apologize. Maliki says he won't make Abu Aziz do that alone. We get in a car to hammer to meet Abu Aziz, who's already driven up from Damascus. Maliki is anxious and frustrated.

[Maliki Mardinali]

I didn't sleep well, actually.

[Eamon Ogana]

So what? What are you hoping you're going to see these guys? And what?

[Maliki Mardinali]

To end this madness, man. To end this madness. I think we've been in this case three days now.

[Eamon Ogana]

Yeah.

[Maliki Mardinali]

The fuck is this, man? Three days? Three days for a comedy show. They are wrong, okay? They are the political affair. They are wrong. But we didn't play well. When we play, we give them our neck.

[Eamon Ogana]

We get to the Political affairs office, and inside, a large, drab, concrete government building. At the door, the security guard says they're expecting us. And Maliki tightens up a dim stairwell to a large office. Three suited officials sit in a row like judges facing out. One of them is the infamous Sheikh. We're shown to chairs by their side. Abu Aziz is already there. Maliki tells me to put my recorder outside again, please.

[Maliki Mardinali]

We gonna take this outside, then we're.

[Eamon Ogana]

Gonna talk, all right? The meeting begins. It's all in Arabic, but my translator is there and takes notes. The government officials are stern and condescending. Their age and authority looms over Abu Aziz and Maliki. They have the room. The men from Political affairs tell the comedians they were insulted by Abu Azizah's post, that it's unacceptable to compare them to the Assad regime. They ask Abu Aziz how many people saw his post. He says 47,000, and apologizes, says what he did was wrong. The officials say that in addition to the post being inappropriate, it wasn't true. They never cancelled the show. Maliki pushes back. That's what his fixer was told when he had gone to pay the fees for the show. Whatever the truth of that, the three officials do have a lot to say about the content of the shows. One of them says that he went to one of their shows a few months back, that he sat in the front row of his son. He says, I regretted bringing him, but what calmed me was that he fell asleep during the show. From the start, all your jokes were about religion, sex, and sensitive topics that threaten civil peace. They remind the comedians that under Assad, they could joke about anything but politics. Now they can joke as much as they want about politics or the government, but they can't joke about topics that could disturb the civil peace. They point to a little dance Abu Aziz does at the start of his set. They say it's sexual. They Say society's morals have deteriorated. Abu Aziz apologizes a second time. He tries to break the tension with a joke. He says, there are three things I Ahmed al Shara, Bashar Al Assad, and sport. But the truth is I only like two of them. You can choose whichever you like. It's a joke because Abu Aziz is overweight, not a big athlete, and it's impossible to both love Shara and Assad. Silence. No smiles, no laughs. It's awkward. The message is clear. This is not a joke. The meeting wraps up after an hour. Afterwards, I ask Abu Aziz about it. Do you regret the post now?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes. I regret my reaction and putting the story. Because if I do that and comparing them to the old regime.

[Ira Glass]

If I do that with the old.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Regime, I will be killed or forcibly disappeared.

[Ira Glass]

But the new government have at least.

[Sharif Hamzy]

Sat with me, discussed the issue with.

[Ira Glass]

Me, and they let me leave.

[Eamon Ogana]

It says a lot about where Syria is now. Not the old terror, not real freedom either. The state will absolve you if you apologize rather than make you disappear into the prison system. You can post, you can film, you can even argue in a room like that. But you have to bow down to authority, which after 50 years of dictatorship, Syrians know how to do. It seems to me like in Syria today, everyone has tasted freedom for the first time and they're not sure what to do with it. Even the government don't even know what to do with freedom.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Yes, of course. You have said it in a lot. We are learning and they are learning.

[Eamon Ogana]

I spoke to the sheikh afterwards. He reiterated that he didn't cancel the show. He said his remit is cultural centers only. And the comedians are banned from the cultural centers in Hammer. But anything in a private venue, he said, is outside his authority. He never told anyone to stop anything.

[Maliki Mardinali]

He is lying, man.

[Eamon Ogana]

I told Maliki about the conversation. He said it was a misunderstanding.

[Maliki Mardinali]

He no that what they say after when feel the heat, you know? I'm sorry, it's a misunderstanding. Fuck you. I'm fucking your misunderstanding. Understand well, because you are in a position, you have to understand well. Any misunderstanding can lead to blood. You have to be aware of what kind of business you do.

[Eamon Ogana]

I also learned the sheikh is not actually a sheikh. Do you call all the politicians Shaykh?

[Maliki Mardinali]

Not all, only the Muslim one.

[Eamon Ogana]

We tried to figure out who cancelled the show in Hama and didn't get anywhere either. The next two shows are in Aleppo. And even though Maliki was worried about Aleppo from the start, the shows there are not cancelled. They sell out both shows, a thousand tickets in total. Maliki does the joke about his dad and one about being a Christian in a mosque. Sharif tells the bra joke. See, Maliki was right. They kill in Arabic.

[Ira Glass]

Ayman Ogana is a reporter in Damascus.

[Eamon Ogana]

My words. I died a hundred times. You go back to her and I go back to. I go back to us.

[Ira Glass]

World program is produced today by Dana Chivas and edited by FIA Bennen. David Kestenbaum with fact checking by Hanny Hawassley. The people who put together today's show, including include Michael Comedy, Suzanne Gabbard, Tobin Lowe, Katherine Raymondo, Stone Nelson, Ruthie Petito, Nadia Raymond, Ryan Rummery, Frances Swanson, Christopher Sortala, Julie Whitaker and Diane Wu. Our managing editor, Sara Abdurahman. Our executive editor is Emmanuel Berry. Hira Fali Kurz worked with Amen in Syria. Jude Taha did translations. Our website, thisamericanlife.org, this American Life is delivered to public radio stations by prx, the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks as always, to our program's co founder, Mr. Tory Malatea. You know, when people walk up to him on the street before they barely get a word out, he lets them.

[Maliki Mardinali]

Know, I'm not George Clooney.

[Ira Glass]

I'm Ira Glass. Back next week with more stories of this American Life.

[Eamon Ogana]

You go back to ha. Go back to black.