← This Can't Be That Hard
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- [00:00]
A
If you have experienced explosive, instantaneous success in your photography business, then this episode is probably not going to be for you. My conversation Today with Leah O'Connell is honestly like, do you remember those old books that, like Chicken Soup for the Soul books? It felt like one of those to me. Leah is a longtime family photographer based in Virginia who is on today to talk about stamina and the sort of long but very rewarding journey that is building a sustainable photography business. And we had kind of a laugh over the fact that this is, you know, not a super sexy conversation. It's not going to sell out any auditoriums full of people who are foaming at the mouth to, you know, jump in and do stuff. But what it is is a real conversation between two photographers who really have built long term success by doing the daily work. And what I think is wonderful about this conversation, in addition to the fact that it is just 100% authentic and real, is the fact that I hope that for anyone who doesn't fall into that category of like instant runaway success story, I hope that this serves as a reminder that that does not mean that you are in any way failing or behind. In fact, in some ways I really believe that that long term organic, slow growth that feels so frustrating at times when you're in it is actually the strongest way to build a business. It is a rock solid foundation that will make it possible for you to succeed over a longer period of time. So this is a great one to put in your ears as you're editing one of those busy season sets, sessions or wrapping gifts. If you're, if you're listening to this closer to the holidays and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
- [02:24]
B
Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annemie Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how.
- [02:53]
A
Leah O'Connell, welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. I am so excited to finally meet you. It has been a long time coming. How are you today?
- [03:02]
C
I'm good, thank you so much. It's a treat to be talking with you.
- [03:05]
A
Excellent. Yeah, well, I feel like we're doing that thing that's one of my favorite things to do, which is where I get together with another long time photographer and particularly like a longtime family Photographer who can relate to. And we were talking about this, you know, just before we hit record, the fact that, like, it seems like yesterday in some ways that I had that, you know, oh, my gosh, I. I'm. Am I ever not going to be the new kid on the block when it comes to photography? Like, am I ever going to feel like I know what I'm doing? Am I ever going to figure this out? And I love talking to other photographers who have been in it for a long time and kind of having that conversation of like, how did. How did we get here? How do we become the ones who are like, sharing what we've learned? And I love the fact that that's the focus of our conversation today, that we're really diving deep on sort of the strategies for longevity in a photography business and in a portrait business in particular, because I do. I mean, I think that a lot of what you need is the same, but in some ways portraits are different. It's a different world than, say, weddings. And so anyway, I'm really excited for everything you've got to share. Why don't you start out by just introducing yourself for anybody who might not know you and all the wonderful work that you do. Sure.
- [04:34]
C
Thank you. Yeah. I started photographing families when I was 15 years old. I started my first jobs in high school and college were in mall portrait studios like Sears and Picture People. And I photographed at summer camps. And it was just something that I adored and pursued. I went to college to. I studied English and education, thinking that I was going to be a high school English teacher and maybe do photography on the side. You know, as most people think, that's the only way that we can photograph families. But when I graduated, I got married. Soon after, my husband and I moved to Hawaii. He was stationed there in the military. And we moved at the very beginning of a school year. So I couldn't get a job, like, right out of college. Moving from Virginia to Hawaii, and I was like, I've got this one wild, precious year on an island with no obligations. Yeah, let's pursue photography. And I just started. I think my naive fit a like was an asset to me and my youth as well. Cause I would just go anywhere, I would show up anywhere, I would go to, you know, meetups and just shootouts all over the island. And I found some mentors that I could kind of saddle up with who really took me under their wing and showed me in person that this is a real job and this is something you can do. It was just a really exciting time. And when we moved back stateside, I came with this decision, like, am I going to go back and pursue the classroom? Am I going to keep pursuing photography? And I just couldn't get over in my heart the idea that if I don't try and see what it's like, then I'll always wonder. Yeah. So I went for it and then at a certain point it was like, I've got the bug. I can't imagine doing anything else with my life. And I kind of just went all in with, with it.
- [06:31]
A
So good. I. It's funny that you say that. So here I am, whatever, like pushing 15 years in the photography industry and one of my friends, good friends actually like someone who I've known since our kids were babies and you know, now both of our sons started college this year. So she's known me for a long time, including through the time that I started my photography business. I posted a thing in like our group text thread the other day referencing a nurse friend of mine and she was like, is this news? Are you, are you working as a nurse again? And I was like, clearly you don't know me as well as I thought. Like there is no going back. It is funny how once you're bitten by that bug it is, it's hard to imagine going back to that world and that life again. But I want to just sort of underline something that you said that is something that I think is actually one of the strengths of being a brand new photographer or even like before you start a business where I spent so much time in the beginning of my business, like wishing that I could get out of the new phase and like feel like I knew what I was doing and feel like I had my act together. But every time that I talk to a new photographer, I try to remind them or say to them in some sort of non condescending way, like what you have at that phase that is hard to maintain and it's maybe even impossible to maintain at the same level. Is that just like unbridled? No, jaded. Like anything. You are just so all in on the art and that is. It shows up. Absolutely. And the work you do and the energy that you give to your clients. And so I always, I just appreciate like where you were not only geographically in such an incredibly beautiful place, but just sort of mentally that's great.
- [08:27]
C
And you know, like the photos that I was taking then were terrible. Like objectively they were not good and I, but I didn't, I didn't know any better and I just was so obsessed with it that it was fine and I didn't have the care to be embarrassed by it. And I think that's one difference between starting a business now in 2024. Maybe that adds another level of that pressure, because everything does feel more public, I think, for new photographers now. But the ability to do something and just do it and do it again and fail publicly, that's a hard thing to do. But when you were like, when you put yourself in the position of being like, you know, no one's really paying that close of attention. Like, if they are paying attention, they're going to see me succeed next year. They're going to see me, they're going to see this growth too, and just keep picking yourself up and trying new things if it matters to you. I think that's the only way that practice and the continuing to commit to it is the only way that you get better.
- [09:30]
A
Yeah. I remember a lesson that my mom taught me as a teenager. I think I was a preteen at this point, and she needed to go to the mall and she wanted to bring me to the mall. And I was mortified to be at the mall with my mom. And I must have taken, you know, however much time to get ready to go to the mall. And she was like, come on, come on, come on, come on. And so anyway, we went to the mall, we walked around and did whatever we needed to do. And then on the way to our car in the parking lot, she turned to me and she was like, okay, I want you to describe any outfit of anyone in the mall that you noticed. And I couldn't do it. And she was like, I just want you to know that everyone pays more attention to themselves than other people.
- [10:12]
C
And, you know, that's phenomenal.
- [10:15]
A
And it stuck with me. Yeah, I know, it really stuck with me. And I have, like, shared that with my own kids. But I, I think that, you know, to your point, like, especially with a new business, it's like you're having to share a bunch of stuff online. And that self consciousness, it. There is the, the blessing of having so much publicity and so much out there these days is that it's the flip side of the curse, which is that it's hard to stand out. And, and so even if you're making mistakes, especially like in social media and stuff like that, or, and, or sharing something that's not perfect, it's gonna go right by.
- [10:50]
C
Act, almost just the act of, of showing up, of getting used to sharing your work, of, of saying Here I am. Like, those things matter.
- [10:59]
A
Yeah. Okay, so I've been blathering on because I just love this topic so much, but I really do wanna hear more from you. Talk to me a little bit about how that progressed and what you think kind of got you where you are.
- [11:14]
C
Slow and steady. Lots of slow and steady. And that's not a very, like, glamorous way of putting it.
- [11:23]
A
Right.
- [11:23]
C
But yeah, I'm really always very careful to be, you know, of the phrase like, the rest is history or because the rest was hard. The rest was, you know, lots of decisions and changes. And I've been lucky to be in the Same location for 10 years of my business now. So that's an asset of just building clientele. But I've changed a lot about my business, you know, in that time. Like, I'm charging triple the rates. I'm doing all kinds of, you know, my style is different now than it was 10 years ago. So I have three babies now. I had none when I first started this. Like, that changes a person. That changes how you're able and how you want to do things and how you want to work. So there's been lots of iterations of my business and, you know, I've seen the market shift from, you know, doing lots of in person. I used to do, like, trade shows and markets and lots of things like that really early on. And I don't do any of that anymore. I have a lot of referral clients, but I get a lot of new clients too. And I just feel like over that time you start to learn, like, where's the staying power of where I'm putting my effort? And like, as your. As your energy and your ability and your time get less and less, you put it more carefully where it's gonna matter.
- [12:43]
A
Right.
- [12:44]
C
And I think more than anything, that's what the time has taught me is, like, what's sticking so good.
- [12:51]
A
And when you and I know that you do a fair amount of mentoring and working with photographers who are earlier in the process, what do you feel like is the hardest piece of that message for someone in that position to internalize?
- [13:09]
C
Patience.
- [13:11]
A
Yeah.
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C
Because so much of this stuff is slow and it doesn't have, like, so much of the stuff that's worked for me, which actually I feel like is what people ultimately want when they see their vision long term. They want a business that feels not flashy and not like you, you know, having to pull and drive yourself into the ground to make it work and. But it's hard to do the marketing that's required to get that kind of business because you don't see the results right away.
- [13:40]
A
Right.
- [13:40]
C
And we want the quick wins and we want to see like you can, you can keep tabs on your analytics, which is great. But the big picture, ebb and flow is where you see sustainability come through and like what's really working. It's hard to make those choices of like what's going to work. And so that's where like risk and reward comes into play. And just like testing, lots of testing and, and trusting like experts who can say like, hey, this works. Like trust me.
- [14:12]
A
Yeah.
- [14:13]
C
And try it, try it out, you know, and, and I think it's really easy to try to hit the ground running in your first years, which is great. You've got passion and energy. But we really easily skip over the part where we figure out what we want the foundation to be.
- [14:31]
A
Yeah.
- [14:31]
C
And like people find themselves running, running, running and they find themselves on a path they never meant to run down.
- [14:37]
A
Yes. So a hundred percent. Yes. I feel like I was just, yeah. Just talking about this the other day about how it's like, do you want to get somewhere fast or do you want to get to a particular place?
- [14:49]
C
Like. Yeah. And money is a real thing too, you know, Like a lot of people will start this, you know, and they immediately want it to be a replacement career or you know, make and, and that's, that's difficult to do because especially in the photography, family photography industry, like it does take, yeah. Build, it takes time to build that. And that's, that's a hard truth to come by.
- [15:13]
A
It is. And to your point from before, it's not glamorous, it's not sexy to be like. And it doesn't sell online courses or you know, fill up conferences to be like, come learn the way to grow a business over the course of five years. Like nobody wants to hear that.
- [15:29]
C
Yeah.
- [15:29]
A
And so a lot of people aren't saying it, but I have had these conversations. I, you know, I know that it, there are very, very few photographers out there who really explode onto the scene and those that do often sort of explode onto the scene and then fizzle out because, you know, maybe they get a whole bunch of traction right in the beginning, but when you're that busy, you don't have the time to put together like the business infrastructure that will sustain a longer term business. So it's a, I think that can be like its own double edged sword.
- [16:06]
C
And I don't want that to be discouraging either because I Feel like that is one asset of building upon and alongside the shoulders of people who have, who are teaching this kind of thing like we have now. Because you can shortcut some things. Like you can't, you don't have to try all of the things.
- [16:25]
A
Right.
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C
You do have some of that support and some of that guidance to help you weigh decisions and make smart ones. I think like the breadth of my career growing as slowly as it has was in part because I refused to take advice from people. You know, early on. You know, I wanted to do it all myself. I wanted to figure it out, which is great. And you learn so much doing that. So, so I want people to like, find, to be able to find that happy medium of like testing and trying and also like working in collaboration with people who can support you because I think both are really important. Learning how to think for yourself and make decisions that are focused and apply to your business. But like, sometimes you need help learning how to do that. That's a muscle.
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A
So the through line that I'm hearing from you on all of this really comes down to stamina. It's like being able to set a goal, see the goal off in the distance and like just keep, just keep swimming. Do you have any sort of pointers for that? Because I do feel like, unfortunately it's not uncommon for artists to have a pretty healthy case of bright shiny object syndrome. Yeah, it's like part of what makes the art great. But I, you know, as far as it being a muscle that you can build, I do actually think that when having a photography business and making that a long term thing is a goal of yours, it's a, it's a goal worth kind of fighting and stretching for.
- [17:51]
C
Yeah, I agree totally. Actually, the definition of stamina, I looked it up recently, it is to sustain prolonged physical or mental effort. So there you go. I mean, that's business, right? And I think a lot of people start in photography as a passion and we dabble and then we wonder why it's not working. And this isn't like a push through at all costs type of message that I want to, like, I'm trying to get through. But it is like, I think there are primarily like three things that help you build the stamina required to sustain a photography business in the long term and the ups and downs that come, that come with that. It's a marathon and not a sprint. So the first part of that stamina is commitment and saying like, I actually want this. I want this more than I want a different job. I want this more than you know. I want that extra hour of sleep in the morning. I want, I want it. And committing yourself to that, it's like a bet on yourself. It's what's going to keep you showing up. When you don't feel like figuring out your CRM or you don't feel like uncovering your workflow or workflow or figuring out what's the problem, why aren't people booking? Like, you don't just throw in the towel and say, well, this isn't going to work anymore.
- [19:11]
A
Right.
- [19:12]
C
It's like the commitment of I want this more than something else. And entrepreneurship is really hard. Like I, you know, I said in the beginning, like, I got the bug, there was no going back. But there have been a handful of times in the last 10 years even that I have found myself looking on job boards. Should I go back to the classroom? Like, should I just do that? This is really hard. And every time I close my laptop and I say, no, I want this because I'm committed. And like you, you just have to weigh. Like at some point you might not be anymore and you might decide that this is not worth it anymore. But if you do think it's worth it has to be really worth it. You gotta, you gotta put your money where your mouth is, basically.
- [19:56]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's like any, it's like a long term partner.
- [20:00]
C
Right? A relationship commitment.
- [20:01]
A
Relationship commitment, yeah. Where it's like, it's not super fun every single minute of every single day. Yeah. Although don't tell my husband that. I'm pretty sure he still thinks it's all fun all the time with me.
- [20:13]
C
That's great. Yeah. So, yeah, I said there's like three pieces. The second piece of that they kind of build on one another commitment, but also like the. That's not drive through the ground at all costs, always happy in rainbows, you know?
- [20:28]
A
Right, right, right.
- [20:29]
C
It's the iteration is the second branch of that. Because I think I was listening to a podcast recently where they described people with grit as those who have the ability to make changes based on nuance instead of novelty. So that's the difference between shiny object syndrome, like jumping off into the forest over all of the new things and saying, let me tweak this little bit. Let me see what is worth turning here or like what I can add or what I can take away. And. And that is how you make meaningful change and revolution in your business. Slow and steady without throwing the whole thing in the ground and burning it and starting over. Every two years.
- [21:11]
A
It's not uncommon, but it's one of those where it's like, if you're. If you've got a goal off in the distance and you know, we'll call that like the mountain you're walking toward and you come to a big boulder in the path, do you turn 180 degrees and walk away? You know, that doesn't get you closer to the mountain. You have to. You have to iterate. I love that.
- [21:32]
C
Yeah, because stamina, too. It's like, it's not black and white. It. It. And sustainability in the long term. It's like you might have to back off for a little bit, and then you can go really hard in another season. Like, I just came out of summer with my kids, and I didn't really have childcare, and it was really hard. But I set a summer base, what I call the summer baseline. It's like, this is the base amount of things that I need to do per week to keep my business running and not go crazy and continue to book into fall. And, like, as long as I'm doing these things, we're good. And in the fall, I've added more childcare because this is a busier season and I want to be able to support myself. I'm going to go harder, and my kids know that, and I have the support. And when I'm home with them, I'm home with them and I'm in it and. And it's like there's ebb and flow. I mean, I was working five hours a week in the summer, and I'm not. And I'm working more than that in the fall. So it's like there have. For me, in my season of life, iteration is season by season, literally. Like, I have young kids and I need to make those changes ahead of time to see, like, what. What are we. What do we need to. To support this?
- [22:42]
A
Yeah. That's so good. Okay. So committing and committing to iterate. Yeah, so committing and. Or commitment and iteration.
- [22:51]
C
And then the third one, I think is reflection. And these all tie in together. They support one another. It's not like a chronological thing, but reflection is like not just reflecting on the past and what has worked, but also reflecting on the future. Like I was saying about what's seasons coming up. What am I going to need to make this work? Well, reflecting on your desires for the future. I remember celebrating when I hit a hundred clients one year and being like, I got a hundred clients this year. I'm. That is not my goal anymore. Nowhere Close. I would. I do not want to work with a hundred clients a year. You know, so continuing to reflect and be like, yes, that was a goal check. Also, not next year. What are we going to do to change this? So in order to be able to iterate, in order to be able to continue to commit, you have to have the big picture questions that you're continuing to ask yourself to make sure that you're going in the right direction. Like we said before, like, your direction could change. Like, there was a long time that I was building my business towards building an associate team slowly. And I was thinking, like, this is the direction that I want to go. And if I hadn't been continuing to take the pulse of my business and my desires and my goals, I could very easily have continued doing that. And I don't think it would have been the business that I really wanted. So your goals can change, your desires can change.
- [24:10]
A
I think that that can be challenging on almost like an emotional level, or at least it has been for me over the years, where I will have this, you know, mountain that I'm walking toward and I'm just like, putting in all this work and then at some point doing what you're suggesting, which is so, so, so important, which is periodically checking in with your own goals. And, you know, once I realized in these couple of cases that I'm thinking of that, like, my goals had shifted, there's that. That sunk cost fallacy of, like, I've put in all this work toward this thing. But I think what I have made peace with over the years is just the fact that, like, that progress, as long as what I'm moving toward is a goal of my own choosing, even if those goals change, that progress still gets me. Typically, it's like a bitter, bigger form of iteration where the goal may have shifted, but it's probably in the same general direction.
- [25:08]
C
Yeah. And that's where, like, building slowly and being okay with doing it, like, in a slow and steady pace is actually a real asset to you because you haven't, you know, built the whole ship before you realize, like, there's a floorboard missing and you have to tear the whole thing down. You know, like, you might have to walk back. I mean, I think that my husband's a developer and like, a software developer, and he is constantly saying, like, well, I put in three hours of code today and all of it's getting scrapped. Like, part of what you make is going to just be part of the building process. And at some point you have to, like, just make peace with that. Not everything you make or do is going to see the light of day, but the right things will if you're, if you're continuing to take your pulse.
- [25:53]
A
So, so good. So I feel like all of this is so appropriate and I take it all back. At the beginning of the conversation I was like, I love that we're talking about this for portrait photographer. This is 100% applicable. Honestly, even if you're not a photographer, if you've got some other small business, these are legitimate insights. Do you have anything in your business that you feel like have been sort of the things that you can point to to say these have helped me over time to achieve my goals and to make it through?
- [26:27]
C
Yeah, I mean, well, there are definitely some integral pieces that keep my business running even with the ebbs and flows and some are recent and some have been for over years. Definitely. Like I've been blogging for 12 years on the Internet and focusing on my online presence being something that I am proud of. Yeah. So I think that's been a huge asset and focusing on SEO and things like that.
- [26:56]
A
Can I. Oh, I'm going to interrupt you. Can I ask how frequently you blog or if that's been like a very. Have you stuck to a particular schedule? Is it okay?
- [27:06]
C
No, no, no. Because again that's, that's part of the iteration. It's just like this is part of what's needed in my business. There have been some years that it, you know, once a month or something. There are some that I'm doing it more often. There have been some years where I just have done it like once a quarter or you know, I didn't blog for three or four months or whatever. But it's always like this is an important thing to keep going. And again, when you're looking at the big picture, the 30,000 foot view, it's not as important that it's on a particular schedule. I think now. And I think it used to be that way. Yeah, like, you know, every Tuesday we're looking forward to this blog coming out. That, that doesn't exist anymore. So I think now it's more about like the, the body and the breadth of work. Um, and so that's just what I focus on.
- [27:51]
A
And you just build it over time.
- [27:52]
C
Yeah.
- [27:53]
A
Okay.
- [27:53]
C
Yeah, so it's there, it's just a body of work like any to browse and I, I tweak it and I edit it, I, you know, add onto it. But yeah, that's made a huge difference. And my newsletter, I'VE had a newsletter for eight years. It's probably only been something that I've really honed in on in the past two. About a year and a half ago, I started writing a weekly newsletter that's storytelling based, focused and that I finally got and understood what it's like to connect with your clients over value first instead of constant selling of the thing and promoting and I write stories about my life and my lessons and my business and. And every week I have people reply and connect and inquire directly from my newsletter. Yeah, so that's quiet. That's not like, that's not a, you know, flashy thing. Nobody's seen what I write except those people who are on my newsletter. And then I think the, the thing that's probably been the most long running that's helped in slow seasons in market generation and lead generation is that I do lifestyle, lifestyle school, school photos. And I work with like Montessori schools, forest schools. I do all outdoor. So those clients really feed naturally into my style of shooting. And that has always, it's kind of been like an undertow of predictability for what I can count on, even if I have a slower summer like I was just describing, like, I know I have these schools coming up to kind of fill in that gap next year or whatever it might be. So sort of again that big picture, like we're looking at the whole year here, it's not even necessarily month by month of where income comes from or whatever, but it sweeps through the whole year and kind of flows all together. And the school photos really help that.
- [29:45]
A
Yeah, that's amazing. And it sounds like you got into that before. It was. I feel like these days school, like lifestyle school photos or professional sort of independent photographer school photos are becoming a bigger thing certainly. But yeah, to have that consistency. And it, it does. I mean, I've never formally done school portraits, but I've done work with some different groups that are like, like a small orchestra that had me, you know, similar kind of work. And it does, it feeds into so much additional work over time.
- [30:20]
C
Well, and for me it's a really natural extension too because like I have a background in schools, I love working with schools. I donate a portion of my efforts back towards the schools because I love supporting teachers and kids and like it just kind of naturally flows. And then the part that I feel like people don't talk about a lot with that is the exponentially amazing practice that it gives you with working with all different kinds of kids.
- [30:45]
A
Yeah.
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C
Like even this far into my Business. Like you've got a like 2 minute window or whatever to work with a kid or a five minute window. I mean, you've got shy to suberant and all different ages, babies to high schoolers. And it just gives you such diversity and being able to connect quickly with people. And that's a skill that is hard to teach. You know, you have to practice it.
- [31:08]
A
Yeah. And nothing like a sort of low stakes, you know, school portrait to then have that in your back pocket when you show up for a family shoot and you've got a kid who's bouncing off the walls and you're like, let me calm you down.
- [31:22]
C
Yeah, we've got this.
- [31:24]
A
Yeah. So good. I love having these kinds of conversations because it reminds me, honestly, as an educator, like hold your horses. Not everything needs to be solved in a minute. And the, the truth of the matter is that's you're absolutely right. Like the slow build, the slow growth, the long term view is the stronger way to build a business. And I think that for anybody out there who is at a point of frustration. I know, you know, and we didn't even touch on this, but like outside factors play a role in what's going on in your business from, you know, year to year, season to season. Certainly Covid was a great example of that. But economic ebbs and flows and things like that and being able to still take that longer view is so important. It's, it's vital to that long term plan.
- [32:18]
C
I really want to stop hearing about people whose turning point to a successful business is burning out.
- [32:25]
A
Right. Rock bottom.
- [32:26]
C
Yeah. I, I want, I want that narrative to go away to like, because so many, it's like I was going, everything was great, I burnt out. And now I have a successful business and like now I learned how to do it and I want to help people learn how to get to that more like exponential growth. Growth in a way that feels wholesome the whole way through. Like we're not burning out and driving. Like that's not a requirement to success. To like loving what you do and how you do it.
- [32:55]
A
Yeah. Oh, amazing. Leah, tell everyone where they can find you and connect with you. And I know you've got some really great like educational resources to share as well.
- [33:07]
C
Yeah, thanks. I have a lot of free education right now. I have a podcast called Photo Fuel and on my website I've got one page with just a plethora of free resources that you can download and get sent to your inbox. So it's all in one place. Leah O'Connell.com learn I have like a free gallery walkthrough or walk you through an in home shoot that I've done and show you troubleshooting and directions that I gave and that's I feel like a real hang up for people the confidence of going into home so that walkthrough is there and then kind of in line with this conversation that we've been having of seeing that 30,000 foot view of your business. Another resource that I have is the Big Picture Workbook which is some journaling prompts and questions that I ask myself and a lot of the people that I coach with often to, you know, help you zoom out and zoom in on like what's working, what's not working. So lots of good things there.
- [34:05]
A
Good. And you said it's Leo connell.com learn that's right. Amazing. We'll put it in the show Notes. Well, this has been a pleasure. I look forward to talking with you again soon. And and again. I'm just so thrilled to have finally connected.
- [34:20]
C
Thanks. Me too. I love this conversation.
- [34:23]
B
Well, that's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. In the meantime, you can find more information about this episode along with all the relevant links, notes and downloads at thiscantbethard.com. learn if you like the podcast, be sure to hit the subscribe button. Even better, share the love by leaving a review in itunes. And as always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.