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- [00:00]
A
When it comes to marketing, the vast majority of photographers focus on the free channels that are available to them to get their name out there in the world. Whether it's working on your SEO or writing emails, or putting out social media content, these are all channels that we can feed on a regular basis to grow our audience. And none of those things are wrong. In fact, all of them will, over time, help you build relationships with people. But the fact of the matter is, as the industry grows, it becomes harder and harder to find those new people using just those tactics. Enter Google Ads Now. I know that all of us tend to balk a little bit when it comes to spending money and potentially a lot of money to get people to see our businesses and connect with us. However, when it comes to Google Ads, unlike Facebook ads or Instagram ads, you are paying money to have someone who is actively searching for what you do find you first. It is a quick path to being, you know, on that first page of Google. And the truth is, because this is an underutilized resource in the photography industry, those ads are not as expensive as they are in other industries. Today my guest is Lindsay Herkert and she is a Google Ads expert who has been using Google Ads in her own photography business for years to fill her calendar and keep herself completely booked. Today, she's going to be talking not just about Google Ads, but about how that strategy is part of a bigger sort of system and cycle where she's finding new clients that way, getting them to actually book, and then continuing to serve them for years to come. And I think her insights are so exciting and I'm really excited to share them with you. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annami Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't help have to Be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how. Lindsay, welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. I am so excited to have you on the show. This is a juicy conversation that we are diving into today. How are you?
- [02:36]
B
Good, Great, thanks. Anime. I'm so excited to be here.
- [02:39]
A
Yeah, this is, this is going to be a good one and I feel like it's a good time of year for people to be thinking about things like, you know, their systems and their processes and how they want to intentionally set themselves up for success. Anyway, I don't want to give too much away. I want to like turn the microphone over to you and let you just kind of dive in. You've got a good sort of backstory on how you got into all this.
- [03:05]
B
Yes, I do. I do. Okay, so I'm going to introduce myself. My name is Lindsay Herkert. I am the owner and photographer at Lindsay Herkert Photo Company. I've been photographing families and babies for over a decade. And then I added branding in 2020, which I absolutely love. And I'm obsessed with Nice. So I've built my business twice. The first time was sort of organically in San Diego through family and friends. I feel like it's a story we all know. And then in 2017, we had a surprise move to Austin and so I was forced to start over, which I was concerned, completely bummed about. I didn't know anybody in Austin, but it ended up being such a blessing because I built my business the right way and strategically right. So what happened was after I like picked myself up and stopped feeling sorry for myself, I signed up for some business courses and some workshops. And at the time, I have to admit, like, I felt really disappointed by what people were teaching. I felt like it was kind of platitudes. I remember hearing, like, know your why a lot, which I felt like is important, but when you're looking for hard hitting advice, it's Right. Disappointing.
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A
Yeah.
- [04:26]
B
And I remember one particular workshop I was at and really frustrated. And I recognized another photographer and I knew she was successful, a successful photographer in Austin. And during lunch I swallowed my pride and I went over to her and I asked her, I just told her my situation and I said, you don't have to answer me. I know you're my competition, but I would appreciate any advice you could give me. And that's when she told me about Google Ads. And I think at the time I remember going home and talking to my husband and being like super nervous about it because I, I was afraid to invest the $300 a month, which is what she recommended. And to me that just seemed like such a huge commitment. But over the course I realized like, if you're charging what you're worth, then that $300 a month should more than cover one client like, or one client should more than cover that cost. And Google Ads brings you so many more than one client. And fast forward to now and I have a fully booked calendar and making more money than I ever thought. And I've learned so much about that mindset shift of having to reach out and hustle for clients versus clients coming to me, right? And not just, not just clients, but ideal clients. Clients who value what I, what I do and are willing to pay for it. I wanted to say that I think that there is this sort of myth that you learn to use a camera and that people are just going to come to you and like, demand to pay you high prices and ask to be your photographer. You see, like, you hear this story and I'm like, who is that person? And I realize at the beginning of this I just said, like, I built my business through family and friends, but if I'm honest, that was incredibly painful and exhausting and that discounting mentality and like getting on Facebook groups.
- [06:29]
A
And I'll be the first one to like, jump in and agree. I actually, and no offense, if any of my friends or family happen to be listening to this, I hate working for my friends and family. And even when it's like a friend of a friend, there's this weird expectation of like, I'm going to feel terrible if they're not, you know, completely blown away. And I, you know, generally speaking feel terrible if any of my clients aren't. But when there's like a friend or a family, there's like this additional pressure and coupled with this weird pressure to like, am I supposed to give them something or discount something, or is this supposed to be free? Or like, how does this work? It just feels a lot cleaner and le and more professional. Honestly, when I am working for someone who found me and hired me because of what I offer, not because of who I am.
- [07:20]
B
Yes, I, I, like you hit the nail on the head. I, I such a proponent of that. And I, I live in a neighborhood I could easily market myself and probably do a pretty good business. But I, I do the opposite. I don't even talk about it. I don't talk that life. I do think too, with friends and family, it's a lot of times they see you as a hobbyist or it could be even more awkward. Like they, they think they're doing you a favor by letting you photograph them. And it's so much work. So anyway, I know it's hard for us as photographers to transition into like business mode or being an. A successful entrepreneur and putting like, you talk about it all the time, the foundations in place and the fundamentals in place to run a successful business. I think it's an unusual industry that we're in. You know, it's creative. We offer a service, we offer, it's a product we're reflecting how people look. So it's really tricky. But it's all the more reason to spend the time to get your systems in place. And I, well, I'll put a pin in that.
- [08:33]
A
I have so many things, I'm hearing all about it.
- [08:35]
B
Okay, so I have this system ever since I started with Google Ads, it's come into play. And the way I like to think about it or describe it is it's based on four pillars. But instead of thinking of them as pillars, think of a circle. And the circle is drawn with three arrows. And each of these arrows is the pillar. So the first arrow is intent based marketing. And the, the purpose of this is to drive as many high quality leads to your website as possible. Then the next arrow is a website that converts and then the next arrow or pillar is an exceptional client experience. And these arrows, once you have everything set up, are spinning in the background. It's like your wheel working for you. You're not having to like, you know, hustle all the time, right? It does take time to set up, but it's spinning and working for you in the background. And these three arrows are spinning around the most important pillar, which is ideal clients. And I just want to take a minute and talk about what that means because I think it's this word that's thrown around or ideal customer avatar. And I think the typical way people go about it is you sit down and you write on a piece of paper like a story about somebody that you envision that you're taking photographs of. But what I think about with ideal clients is like anime. Your ideal client is different than my ideal client. But something that we have in common with ideal clients is that they need to value what we offer and be willing to pay for what we offer. And I think all of us as photographers need to get that in our heads. And then we dive deeper into the characteristics of our ideal clients. And I think so many people are looking outward when they're thinking about this, but I think the important piece is to look inward first and like, define who you are as a photographer first. So I was working with a student and she came to me and she said like she felt like she was at a disadvantage because she could only shoot families during the week. But I told her to lean into that and market it because I'm sure there's tons of people that want a photographer that shoots during the week. So that would be one of the characteristics that she's marketing. And this is so important, especially when we use Google Ads. And SEO because you really want to be clear about who you are going after.
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A
Right.
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B
Or for like your students that are offering print sales or prints, like you want to use or know that that's who your ideal client is. People that are primed and ready to buy prints. You don't want to have to convince them. I mean, you convince them a little bit, but you don't want to have to be like hustling and spending all your time.
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A
Well, and when those ideal clients come your way, you know it because the friction is so reduced. Right.
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B
Like, yes.
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A
If you get on a phone call or if you're having an email back and forth with someone who's like, I don't want to do it the way that you want to do it. I want to do it this way. And you're like, okay, but you should because of this and this and this. There's a lot of hard selling involved in that. Which, you know, maybe it'll work, but it's emotionally taxing and it spends a lot of time versus somebody who's like, I saw your website and your process. It's exactly what I've been looking for. Where do I sign? It's like, oh, call your friends and tell them to call me. Like, it's such a great feeling.
- [12:09]
B
Yeah, exactly. So I think it is important to dial in who you are, figure out who you're going after, but always with the strong base that they want. They should value you and be willing to pay for you. Yeah. Okay, so next I'm going to talk about my favorite, which is intent based marketing. And I think it's so powerful and so underused and I don't know why we're not talking about it more as photographers. I think the reason I reached out to you Anime was you did that podcast about social media and how you are backing away from posting your clients on social media. And I think so often photographers, maybe because our product is so visual, rely on social media. But social media is called interruptive marketing and it's based on interrupting people while they're doing something else. So they're not thinking about purchasing photography, they're scrolling or playing a game. It's similar to print ads back in the day. Like if you're flipping through a magazine and it's good for awareness, but it's really, it's a hard sell. So you can still use social media as like a secondary thing, but your main focus should be intent based marketing, which is basically focusing on Google. And I do it through Google Ads, which I've talked about and dialed in SEO and these two things drive quality leads to my website. So Google Ads in particular, you are only paying per click. So sometimes it's called pay per click advertising. You're using keywords and headlines to connect with the right people and come to and then they come to your website. So my goal is always to have at least 500 people visiting my website a month. Like that would be my slowest month. In my higher months, I want anywhere from like 1500 to 2000 people in my busy months. And in Austin it's definitely like in California. When I was in California, it was more spread out. But in Austin it's definitely like spring and fall because of weather. So I do that through intent based marketing, which is just like appearing in front of my clients when they are actively searching and ready to buy. So somebody who's at their lunch break looking for a family photographer and then I show up on their Google search, then I've already taken half the work out of the process.
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A
Yeah, so I was so excited when you reached out because I don't think I've ever run Google Ads. And most of the reason is that I only got into ads. Yeah, most people haven't. I only got into ads once I started getting like doing education work. And I still outsource that because I feel really overwhelmed by the metaverse and trying to manage all of that. But I started running ads so I don't know, three or four years ago to grow my audience for the this can't be that hard business. And I, yeah, Facebook and Instagram. But when I started getting into that and seeing the power of like, oh, I don't actually have to hustle for every single new set of eyeballs. I can pay money and have more people see the stuff and then, you know, ultimately you get better at that and find the right people and all that. And as I started learning how to do that, I have lots of complaints about meta and the Facebook world and Instagram ads and all that sort of stuff, which is a whole separate conversation. But as I learned more about ads in general, I was like, if I were trying to grow my photo business, right now Google Ads are where it's at because again, it's not because somebody's scrolling and they meet a certain avatar, whatever. It's literally because they just typed in, I'm looking for a family photographer in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Like, how can you get more targeted than that? It's so good. So yeah, you're paying for those ads and it's an investment up front. But as soon as you start to see that roi, it more than pays for itself. It seems to me to be such a no brainer. And you're right, people aren't talking about it or using it anywhere near to its potential in this industry.
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B
Exactly. And I think I've thought about this a lot and I think part of the reason is the cost is overwhelming if you don't think through the whole process. And that's why getting your prices right and all of that is so important.
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A
Right.
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B
But yeah, they are just so powerful. And when I started using them it wasn't just, it wasn't just that people started coming to me. It was like such a cool mindset shift to, it was like they were validating that I by them coming to me, they were validating that I am a good photographer. You know, it was the first time that you kind of feel like oh I, I am good at this. I'm not having to like hustle or like beg or run these deals or say one spot left. It's just people are coming to me and then it, you really dial in your process and you raise your prices even more because you're in demand. It's just phenomenal. But it's so cool because everybody can use it to their own liking or what, whatever it is that they offer it is just so specific. So I do think it's important that if you're going to use it, like I said, you have your pricing high enough that you're covering it and that you have a website that's built to convert. And I can talk about that just a little bit. Some things that I've seen a lot of times when I look at new photographers websites or people that are just starting out, they use a template or have a website that doesn't take up the whole whole page. It's kind of concentrated in the middle. And this is like it show, it doesn't show confidence or what you're, you know, or that you're showing up for. People also just having quality photos on your website, not quantity but quality and having a reason for each photo. And then my last piece of advice with the website is having your contact button often and scattered throughout, easy to find because that's the ultimate goal once they land on your website.
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A
Let me ask you just a little bit more about the first point about using all the real estate on your page, not just sort of concentrated in the middle. Can you give some examples of what you mean by that? Hang on guys. I have a Quick message for you. Hey, friends. Just a quick interruption. I wanted to take a minute to thank you, as always, for listening. If you're a new listener, I have a special welcome basket that I've put together just for you that includes three of my most popular, actionable resources to help you build a more profitable, sustainable photography business. You can grab that@thiscantbethard.com welcome. But if you've been a longtime listener, if you've been here for a while, I would really appreciate it if you could take a second to leave a review on Spotify or Apple or wherever it is that you're tuning in. Your support helps the show grow, reach more photographers like you, and elevates the industry as a whole, no matter who you are or how long you've been listening. Thank you so much. And now back to the show.
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B
Yes. So. Well, I mean, I have seen people I don't know, there's like templates out there that don't use the whole screen, you know. So I think it's important to have like your photos really big, right, and prominent and the font on your website easy to read and just. I know it sounds silly, but I can't tell you how many websites I go to that I'm like, okay, take up the whole space, find a good template or build on WordPress is my favorite. Just showing up and being confident and definitely editing those photos to be consistent. Like a consistent editing style on your website really helps. And I'll tell you one other little trick or something that I've noticed is a lot of times photographers don't have their branding complement the tones of their photos. I've noticed. And this can also make a huge difference. Like, I can think of one particular student who had just beautiful photography, but her branding didn't really help it pop and she switched it. I was hesitant if I should say anything, and she ended up switching it and she texted me. She's like, I don't know if it's because of that, but I just booked two newborn sessions today, so it was kind of cool to see.
- [21:01]
A
Yeah, yeah. Your website, especially if you're paying to send traffic to your website, you definitely need it to speak quickly and directly to like, this is who I am, this is what I do. This is what you can expect to pay. Not because you're necessarily writing your prices all over the place or deep diving on that, but you, you probably have it somewhere and you know some amount of information. But it, the whole thing needs to feel like, oh, this is going to be an investment at this sort of level. So like professional, up to date, you know, to your point. Like consistent branding and yeah, easy to read. I. You said like that should be obvious and it should be obvious. But it is funny how many templates that are built for photography look like museum galleries, which is, you know, aesthetically beautiful. And I appreciate that. We all want everything to look really beautiful on the page. But it does also have to convert. It's not a museum, it is a storefront. And I think that people need to remember that. That doesn't mean you have to have like a flashing red buy now button, but you need to find some middle ground that works.
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B
Yeah, yeah. I think that having a website that converts is so important and so often people are just like, have their website and kind of forget about it and focus on social media. And I really think like that is your selling point. And really when most people reach out to me after they've seen my website and know my pricing and they've reached out, most of the time it's like a quick conversion, you know, it's not a lot of selling involved. So I've done the, like, it's all done and I don't have to go back and forth like we talked about earlier. It's so empowering and exciting and fun. You know, I love that.
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A
So, so you've got your intent based marketing and then you've got a website that converts and then what's next?
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B
Oh, and then we have an exceptional client experience and this is really easy to build once you have clients coming to you and you really start dialing in. Like once you have ideal clients consistently, you start seeing the rhythm and the pattern and it becomes really fun to dial into who you are as a photographer and the experience you want to offer. But I want to bring up, I think it was on your podcast, I remember a story, I think she was a boudoir photographer and she had invested in a studio and the studio flooded and at first she was so bummed but she's like, it was the best thing because allowed me to take the time to get all of my marketing and the experience in order and write out all the templates. And if I had any piece of advice for photographers out there is like, just take the time to do this. Think about your client journey from inquiry to the last time you're going to, you know, the last interaction with them and write out all the emails, all the copy. And if you there's something important that you have to say, then say it multiple times in Short chunks. But this is what establishes you as the expert and gives you control, like, say what you need to say and take control of the situation. And if you take the time to do this, you'll have a better experience. They'll have a better experience. And I think this is the key to just really delivering a good experience, whatever that looks like for you and your clients, but just taking that time and roadmapping it out and getting it in order.
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A
Yeah. And I totally. I love that you use that visual of sort of a wheel, like a circle.
- [24:52]
B
Yeah.
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A
Because as much as using Google Ads brings new people in, one of the biggest things that I talk about all the time is that the easiest clients, the best clients, are the ones that come back to you.
- [25:04]
B
Exactly. If it's okay, I wanted to go back. I forgot to say that with my Google Ads, I use Honeybook for my client relations management, which I love so much. They just gave me my end of the year numbers for last year. And last year I had 149 inquiries from Google and 51 with a 51% booking rate.
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A
Wow.
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B
That is huge.
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A
That is fantastic. Yeah.
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B
And I can't emphasize enough that it just once I have everything set up, it's very little effort. And the clients that I worked with this year were so fun and bring me so much joy and make me love what I do. And it's so different from those clients that just like suck the energy out of you, you know?
- [25:51]
A
So amazing. Well, let me ask a couple of questions that I imagine might be in everyone's on everyone's mind as they're listening to this. So you just shared numbers, which I love, and I'm going to put you on the spot a little bit and say, do you have any sense as to what your Google Ads budget Was that returned 149ish inquiries with a 50% conversion rate?
- [26:17]
B
Yes. So I do spend $300 a month on Google Ads. And it's funny, actually, I work with a Google Ads coach because after I became obsessed with it and saw the power of them, I took some classes. I even read a book about them. My coach looked at my numbers. He was blown away. And he's like, I know dentists and lawyers that spend like fifteen hundred dollars a month on these things for one client.
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A
Yeah.
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B
So to me, 300amonth is like nothing to pay for the amount that it brings me. The other thing that is scary for people is actually just setting up the Google Ad because it is a little overwhelming. But once you know how to do it. And it's. But especially for photographers, it's pretty, pretty easy. So.
- [27:07]
A
Amazing. Okay, wait, hang on. I want to go back. So I just, I pulled out my calculator here.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So $3,600 over the course of the year.
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B
Yes.
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A
With. And I'm going to just round it out and say 70 booked clients. So people who actually booked with you. And paid comes out to being, if I'm doing my math while we're talking, right around $51 per converted client.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Which I'm guessing you charge more than 51.
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B
Yeah, a lot more. A lot more.
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A
So this is the thing when I first was getting into ads that somebody said to me, they were like, okay, I know it's a big investment, it feels like a lot of money to spend, but if you could put a dollar into an ATM and have it spit out $5, would that, would you do that? How many dollars would you put into the ATM? I was like, every dollar I have.
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B
Yes.
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A
And obviously, you know, there's no guaranteed ROI on ads, so that's the scary part. But really, once you do dial it in and maybe give yourself a few months and maybe invest in having somebody help you learn how to do that. And we'll talk about that in a minute. But once you get to that point, it really is like, yeah, you're paying for something that then turns around and pays you back. And there are so many things that we spend money on in this industry that have no guaranteed or. No, not even like a sort of guaranteed roi.
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B
I know.
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A
So this, it is funny to me how our industry has been so slow to accept ads as a legitimate means to building a business.
- [28:41]
B
It's true, it's true. And I really, I still that photographer that told me about them. I remember every year for a while I was taking her out to dinner on her birthday because I was so grateful nobody had ever said it, you know, or I didn't really understand the power of it. And I think it's especially pertinent for me now because when I first started my photography business, I had two toddlers and eventually another baby and I got to spend all day with them and then in the evenings I would go out and shoot and it was almost like a little break or something. But now I have a 10 year old in elementary school, a 13 year old in middle school and a 15 year old in high school. And this is the second year with three kids at three different schools. And my 15 year old works and plays sports, but doesn't drive yet.
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A
Right.
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B
So my time is so precious. So if I'm leaving in the evening, I'm usually missing family time or a sporting event. And so I want to make sure that like, I am going to people that value what I do and I'm getting paid for what I do. And Google Ads really is the one that like change, like just flip the script for me because it brings me the right clients.
- [29:58]
A
Amazing.
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B
So.
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A
So, Lindsay, I know that you help other photographers get started with Google Ads and understand how to use them. Can you give everybody information about how to connect with you and start kind of diving into some of your resources?
- [30:13]
B
Sure. So my website is lindsayherkert.com and on the upper right hand corner it says for photographers. And it's. It should be very easy to navigate and it has everything you need. I do teach a mini course that is just specific for setting up your Google Ad. I am very, very passionate about helping other photographers skip the messy middle and just skip that whole friends and family model. So if you're interested in that, there's a course linked on that page. I also have a guide that I think you're going to link in the show notes that gives like a step by step with screenshots version of how to set up your Google Ad. And this is super helpful. Should get you a really good start. The course goes deeper into optimizing the ad and just understanding it so that you have more confidence in building it on your own.
- [31:10]
A
So good. Well, Lindsay, thank you so much for coming on the show. It has been a pleasure chatting with you and I hope that you have inspired people because I really do. I'm giving the onomy seal of approval. I feel like Google Ads are a really reasonable way to increase your exposure. You know, connect with people who are actually looking for photographers and. Yeah, but I love that you couch that in a bigger system of like, your business kind of has to be ready for it and then once it is, it's just this like, cycle that keeps on keeping on.
- [31:38]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So thank you. Thank you for having me. It's really fun to be here. I love your podcast.
- [31:44]
A
It's a pleasure to have you. Thank you so much.
- [31:46]
B
Okay, thank you.
- [31:48]
A
That's it for this week's episode of this can't be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out thiscan'tbethathard.com to explore all the resources we have for photographers. And of course, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.