A (3:11)

Well, that's what I have spent time there doing and it is beautiful. I've been there several times and haven't been there in a while. So next time I'm there, I'll. That's why I asked. I'll call you up and we can go hang out in person. Which is perhaps a good segue into what we're talking about today. Yeah. So today we're here to kind of talk about the impact that actually getting together with people in person and being in physical spaces with other people has when it comes to marketing. And when I met you at the reset conference, you were there speaking on marketing and you're, you know, every. I was frustrated because I think you and I spoke at the same time. So we didn't get to. I didn't get to go see your stuff, but I heard nothing but like, oh my God. Her talk was amazing. Her talk was amazing. So selfishly I wanted more info, but tell me a little bit about, you know, this concept of the gathering effect and how you came to kind of name and frame the idea.

B (4:11)

Yeah. So before we lose too many listeners, I just want to start out by saying I am also an introvert. So if you tuned in and then we started going on about in person and you're already ready to click off like, hang with me. There are lots of ways to do this, but yeah. So my career before I was a photographer was in Parks and Recreation. Everybody's favorite question is, is it like the show? And in a lot of ways it is. It's chaos most days, but it's so much fun. And part of my responsibilities were all the special events. So I got to create ways for people in my community to come together and come together and have fun, come together and celebrate a culture, come together and work on a goal. All different ways of coming together. So I had 15 years of experience of bringing people physically together because, you know, Parks and Rec doesn't put on a lot of zoom calls. So I had all this practice of putting people physically together and so that naturally extended into my business. When I started it, I just saw this like low hanging fruit opportunity of marketing. And now that I've been in the game longer, I see that this is a piece a lot of people overlook and I think they overlook it because one, it's putting yourself out there in a different way if someone doesn't show up. It feels really obvious if no one shows up. Right. Like we don't want the sad kids birthday party. And no, it's, it's not going to be you. It's not going to be you. You're going to run out of cupcakes, don't worry. And then number two, I think people think that oh, I don't have a studio or oh, I don't have a big marketing budget. And there's those physical limitations to putting on in person events that I actually think are very easy to navigate through.

A (5:48)

Yeah, yeah. I love that you worked in Parks and Rec and I imagine. When did you start your photography business?

B (5:56)

I mean, are you asking or is the IRS asking? But I.

A (5:59)

But the IRS could be listening. I'd be kind of surprised.

B (6:03)

We've been in the game a little over 10 years now. Yeah, officially.

A (6:07)

So your Parks and Rec days were pre Covid.

B (6:10)

Yes. Well, and through Covid and got to experience that journey.

A (6:15)

Yeah. Because I feel like that also. I mean there's just sort of like modern technology in general. But I feel like that was kind of a sea change time for a lot of people where it's like in a very short period of time our like ideation around getting together live and in person changed or atrophied or rusted or something. And I feel like obviously we have come back from that in a big way. Big, you know, been to concerts and all kinds of things. Big live in person events. So it's not so much fear based or germ based or anything else. But I do feel like something in our brains shifted when it comes to marketing our businesses where it was like, well everything is now online. That's what we do. That feels safe. That feels to your point, like I don't want to be the kid who nobody shows up to their party. And so I don't know, I just feel like that script kind of got burned in the fire.

B (7:13)

Honestly, I felt it in my own life. And so we realized, you know, we don't live in a super large city but we definitely live In a city that has opportunities to go to concerts and things like that. And we looked up, you know, we were probably in 2023 by that point. And I looked up and I was like, oh my gosh, we never go and do anything anymore because we practiced putting it on pause for almost two years straight to, you know, do the best we can with the information that we had at the time.

A (7:39)

Sure.

B (7:39)

And so in 2024, I actually set a personal goal of going to as many live events as possible with things like concerts and festivals and things like that. And again, I am an introvert and I'm also a wedding photographer. So, like, I get my feel of people. And so this was a big goal for me, but I had to kind of break that cycle that we had worked on during COVID of like not going and doing anything. I do think this problem existed before COVID where photographers really overlook this opportunity. But Covid really solidified it as an area that is not receiving much growth, that anyone, if they're at the beginning of their business, if they're 10 years into their business, anyone could jump into this right now and see an impact from it.

A (8:22)

Love. Okay, so let's just talk about the why. Why do you think that live in person events have such a powerful impact when it comes to building your brand, connecting with ideal clients? You know, especially when we're talking about a service based business like photography.

B (8:40)

Yeah. The happy side of it is because you're a delight. Because whoever you are listening to this right now, you're probably a delight because you are somebody running a business and you're somebody learning and growing. And I promise you, other people want to be around that too. The flip side of that, and a little like, sadder side of that is people are also lonely. I see it all the time. I'm in these groups online. Like we have one called Ladies of Lexington, and it's just a large girls group for the city that I live in. And I see friendship applications all the time. And I'm sure you've seen them online too, right? Hey, I'm this old, I have this many kids and I just want a friend. And so I think inherently you're providing a service of being able to bring people together and give them a space to cultivate friendship. And on the other side of that, it means you get to offer something that's not necessarily selling. So if you're uncomfortable with the idea of in person events, maybe this will give you some comfort of. I know it's hard to get online and I Think sometimes we feel like on, you know, Instagram or Facebook or TikTok, we're like, sell, sell, sell. Talk about myself, talk about myself. And it, it feels icky to some of us sometimes. And we could, we could unpack that on a different podcast. Sure. But this is an opportunity to just go do something good, go have fun with it, go provide an opportunity for people and we can talk about some opportunities and how that can work. But it's an opportunity to sell without feeling salesy, which is everyone's favorite way to sell.

A (10:09)

Yes, absolutely. I have so many questions, but I feel like these questions are going to get less sort of vague and more specific once we're talking about actual events. Did you start out, I mean, it sounds like you kind of hit the ground running in photography with this in person event mindset, but is there like an early example that you can bring forward and tell us how that went?

B (10:32)

Now when I think back, the two earliest examples I can think of is, is one, Galentine's Day, which Galentine's Day is like huge now and everybody does it. But for all those listeners out there, I got there first. Now it was something that was actually.

A (10:45)

I actually coined that frame.

B (10:47)

That was me. Thank you. No, but. So Galentine's Day was actually a big deal in the show Parks and Rec, and the lead character on that show loves waffles. And so I decided I'm gonna throw a Galentine's Day party and I'm gonna have a waffle bar. And like Pro Tip 1, waffles are so cheap. And so if you need a party food, boxes of waffle mix are like 2 bucks and it makes like 40 waffles.

A (11:12)

That is a yes.

B (11:13)

And so we had a waffle bar. I rented out a little space above an ice cream shop here in my city and we had our first open Galentine. You did not have to be a client of mine. I put it everywhere I could think of. It was an open invite for any woman who wants to come and hang out that night. And people showed up and they ate my very poorly decorated cookies. I thought I could do that myself. I can't. They ate my waffles, which I had to refine the process of how to contain the mix. Cuz fun fact, the mix expands. So when I put it in containers, that didn't work. But they, they came to my imperfect event and they had fun and they had great feedback. And all of a sudden these people felt connected to me. And so it was more than just another cool person. They met Online, it was somebody that they had an actual memory with, an actual touchpoint, an actual experience. And for me, as a boudoir photographer, there's really nothing more valuable than you feeling comfortable around me. That's my biggest problem I have to solve for my clients is their nervousness.

A (12:11)

Sure.

B (12:11)

And so for me, it was a no brainer. Another very early example. And I. I have to give credit where credit is due. I stole this one from Kaitlyn James. She does an annual get together for her clients and she had annual parties for her clients. So I started doing that around Christmas time. I had a holiday party and anybody who had been a client or scheduled to be a client came, could come to this Christmas party and just hang out and celebrate and meet other people. I have people from all different areas of my life, but there's like common threads between them. Right. Because they're all people who enjoy being around me. And so they also really enjoyed being around each other. And so it was this great meet and greet and then from there it really took off. So those were the first two. Last year was kind of a fun up the game that I tried. Right. And what I did was I scheduled an in person event for every month of the year.

A (13:07)

Wow.

B (13:07)

There's a lot. I told you that was my big goal last year. Right. Was to do more in person things. And so the way I went about this is I have a Facebook community, it's called Franz with benefits.

A (13:18)

And as a reminder, her last name is Franzetti.

B (13:22)

Yes. Yes. There are some questions on the content of the group sometimes. So I have to be very clear of what the goal.

A (13:28)

I'm sure. Yeah.

B (13:30)

So what I did was I put out a call and I said, hey, first of all, what kind of events do you want to see? And second of all, who has a skill to share? Who has something that they want to share with the group? And I assigned a person to each month. And so, for example, one month I had a financial advisor who wanted to come in and offer a free class to help women be smarter investors. And so she came in and she offered that class and it was wildly well attended. It was so much fun. That one's kind of serious. Right? You want to know my most requested event? I don't think anybody would ever guess it. It was bingo.

A (14:06)

Oh, wow.

B (14:08)

When I asked what people want it, like, what do you want to do with your free time? The overwhelming response was bingo.

A (14:15)

That is hilarious. Did you give them? This was like open, open, open ended question, not a multiple choice.

B (14:22)

Yeah. So we're we're always going to make like 20 pieces of content out of everything, right? And so it started out an open ended question and then I took some of the top responses. Then it became a multiple choice.

A (14:33)

Got it.

B (14:33)

Then it became a sign up. You know, you, you, you took it step by step to make sure we get as much community involvement as possible. And again, that goes back to my Parks and Rec roots. I see this often people do what I call plop decisions and they just like plop something out there, right? They're just like, okay, here's this thing that I've decided. You want it without really doing any research or any lead up to it. So that can be part of your in person event is like creating excitement.

A (14:58)

Around what it's even gonna be nice.

B (15:00)

So we had a lot of fun. We had bingo, had a person in the group who was a yoga instructor. So we did a yoga class one month. We had a movie night one month. All different stuff. We partnered with some other local businesses that also benefited from me bringing an audience to them. And then I benefited from the skill and service that they have to offer. And I think I should have added it up. I mean, I feel like I spent less than $200 on the whole year.

A (15:25)

Oh, wow.

B (15:26)

Of content and of opportunities for people to gather because I use those relationships that you already have. Like whoever you are listening, you already have talented people in your life and you already have audience members who want to see you succeed and also want an opportunity to meet new friends. And so I think all those building blocks are already there. You just have to sit down. Pen and paper, iPad, whatever your jam is, you have to sit down and just think it through and get dates on the calendar. Because that's the hardest part, right? Is making time on our calendar. So get the dates and then we'll work on the details.

A (15:59)

Yeah.

B (16:00)

Okay.

A (16:01)

So this is all incredible. And there's so much to unpack, starting with having an event each month, which blows my mind. But I guess what I really want to know is back to this Facebook group that you're talking about. I'm assuming these are not just your clients. This is sort of an open ended thing. It sounds like it's all women. How did you start and nurture the growth of that Facebook group? I mean, it sounds like you're not sort of showing up there as a photographer so much as you are as a community member and like a relationship builder, which is cool. But yeah, tell me more.

B (16:35)

I had a wonderful mentor at the time who urged me to Start a group. And these VIP groups, I feel like that's what we call them most often. These VIP groups are especially prevalent in boudoir photography. For whatever reason, I think they could be equally as good in weddings and families and headshots and all that good stuff. But for whatever reason, boudoir photographers have really embraced the idea of the VIP group. So she suggests that I start this group. And I'm like, I think not. I think no one on this planet needs another Facebook group. That does not appeal to me at all. And she. She stopped and she said, I think you do it differently, and I think you could create the space that you wanted. And the space that I wanted was somewhere to be silly and fun and weird and have a good time with it, because that was me growing up, right? Like, I was the girl who wasn't the perfect, like, girly girl and never felt like I fit in. So I wanted to create the space that I would fit in. So we started it, and it has been one of the most unexpected and wonderful joys of business that I have. It has been such a treat. We. I mean, there's like a whole culture around it now. It's so goofy. We have different hashtags and stuff. Like, if you meet somebody that you've met, out met from the group, if you meet them in real life, you take a picture and you post it with friends in the wild. If you have an anonymous question you want to ask, I do a hashtag asking for Franz. We have all sorts of stuff, and it has become this little safe space on the Internet. And as far as growing it and cultivating it, it was step by step. It was just showing up every day. And it depends on the time of year, too. I have different. I don't show up as a photographer in there constantly, but I do in chapters. So, like one chapter, I show up very much so as a photographer is leading up to my Black Friday sale. It is the top driver of my sale every year is within that group. But sometimes it's offering opportunities to meet and become friends, and sometimes it's posting goofy means and sometimes memes, and sometimes it's posting really great. We have somebody that's about 45 minutes away from us that just created this amazing service of helping people who are impoverished have access to the resources they need for menstruation. And so I got to post that in the group, and everybody was like, oh, my gosh, this is wonderful. How can I help her? So sometimes it's stuff like that. And even though that doesn't sound like selling. And I'm not doing it because I want to increase my bottom line every step of the way. I'm showing people who I am. And then people can decide for themselves if that's a good fit for them for something as important as a wedding day or as intimate as a boudoir session.

A (19:04)

Yeah. And I mean, that really is one of those things too. I mean, step one, apparently is change your last name to Franzetti. It really helps when you've got something fun and hooky for that. But we are creatives. We can all be creative. I do completely agree with you that there's obviously there's marketing and direct sales of, you know, your services and yourself and all that sort of thing where you're getting in front of someone holding, you know, in a picture of you holding a camera and being like, I'm a photographer, you need a photographer. This is why you should trust me. But if that framework or that foundation has been long poured and, you know, set, then it's not even a second thought. It's like, it's time. I need, I need to hire a photographer or I'm, oh, I see that. You know, my friend is hosting this boudoir sale for Black Friday. I think I could do boudoir photos. Somebody who may not have ever even considered doing that because they know you, because it seems like, oh, she's a fun person, she's not a weirdo. I feel like that is just the best kind of marketing.

B (20:12)

Absolutely. And I don't know that I've ever had a client that wasn't really, really nervous or who has been dreaming of taking their clothes off in front of a camera since they were 19 years old.

A (20:21)

Right.

B (20:21)

You know, like most of them never thought they would do boudoir photos. And so there's two, you know, additional aspects to these in person events that I think helps with that. Number one, you're top of mind. You are the first person because you've been recently in someone's mind. If they're like, you know, I'm thinking about doing boudoir photos. Do you know anybody? They're going to have your name ready to go because you've done something recently that sparked their interest. And I think I can't remember who said it, but it's like, you know, basically try to be the name in the room when you're not in the room. I think I'm butchering that. But you understand.

A (20:54)

I totally get it, though. Yep.

B (20:56)

You know, you want people to be talking positively about you, even when you're not there, which I guess is just, you know, that's life. But that's a great, that's a great way to go about it, is make sure you have a reason to be talked about. It's the same reason I do mini sessions every year. I have other avenues in my business that make a lot more money for me than my mini sessions. But I look at my mini sessions as a marketing opportunity because I get to see my families in person and I get to add another chapter to their gallery. So when someone asks, hey, do you know a photographer? They're not thinking of the wedding photographer they hired eight years ago. They're thinking of the person they saw three months ago for updated family photos.

A (21:32)

Right?

B (21:32)

And so that, you know, that concept of being top of mind is, is really, really important. And now that I've just talked on point one so often, I know I said I had a point two and I did, and now, now it is gone. And so on that note, you also don't have to be perfect about this since I'm imperfectly talking about it. That year that I just told you about, there were a few canceled events in there. I had one where someone was supposed to lead a hike and she had to move several states away. And then I didn't have that day available. And so we canceled it for that month. No big deal, right? Oh, that led me back to point two. I remember that now. These events also offer you an opportunity to advertise yourself and your business in spaces that may otherwise be unavailable to you. So a great example is a mom group on Facebook, right? We all know the almighty mom groups, they have power. Be it positive or negative, they have power. And so if you have an opportunity to jump in there and be like, hey, I'm throwing this free event for any mom you know in the city. That's probably gonna be allowed if you go in there trying to advertise your services. Probably not, right? So it offers you this way to get your foot in the door and connect in new spaces that may otherwise not be available to you without a significant financial buy in. And so I love that aspect of it too.

A (22:51)

Yeah, it is much easier to host something free, something open that is not specifically sales related. People are way more likely to share that, especially if it's not like their best friend that's hosting it. But even when it is, you know, your best friend, if it's something that you know is salesy, a lot of people are hesitant to share it. So when we are Asking our clients, like, you know, refer me to your friends. So many people hesitate to do that unless someone asks them, in which case they're more than willing to do that. But if you're hosting a fun event and they're like, hey, I'm going to this yoga thing for women locally, come join me. That's a. It is a nice little way to kind of create that connection without paying for it.

B (23:38)

Absolutely. And that could even be the plan. Right? Like, everybody come with a buddy.

A (23:43)

Right, right, right. Of course.

B (23:45)

There's a couple things. Oh, excuse me. There's a. There's a couple things that I love to say for each event to try to remove some of those barriers. And so you could do one that's, you know, around bringing a buddy or something like that, or you can make it very clear it's okay to come on your own. You know, it's okay to come on your own. I promise you there will be other people there who I've never met. I always address the dress code because I'm a woman who does not enjoy dressing up a ton. If you are jumping on the video version of this, you will see I'm sitting in, like, a target exercise top. I joked that I drew in my eyebrows for this, but that's about as far as I'll go. And so I always address the dress code because that's something that stops me from attending events of feeling like, oh, my gosh, I have to get dressed up, but maybe you're someone who loves to dress up and that's fine too. And then I always try to address the accessibility of the space. You always want to let people know, are there stairs? Things like that. And so how the parking situation is. People have a lot of anxiety over parking if you're in a bigger city. And so I try to address those things to eliminate as many barriers to entry as possible as. As these people are considering an event, and so they don't feel like there's unknowns. And so sometimes bringing a buddy is enough to, like, overcome all of those unknowns. But I like to think of a girl who doesn't have a buddy to bring.

A (25:00)

Sure, right. The person who just moved to town or was like, I'm using this as an opportunity to make a friend.

B (25:06)

Yes. And I am overwhelmed by every event that we have that people walk in, that I have never met before, that are not in my friends group and have no idea what we're talking about when we're like, Francis Franz, that. And they just saw it in another group. Or someone just invited them to it. And I'm always amazed by that. A great example. My v. My Galentine's last year, it so not 2025, but 2024. It like iced. It like sleeted the night I was supposed to have an event. Of course it did, because that's how, you know, that's how the weather treats us sometimes. And so I was like, oh my gosh, you know, we're gonna have such a low turnout. And we did. We didn't have a huge blowout party like we usually do, because people in my estate do not venture out in inclement weather.

A (25:51)

Like, it's not a thing.

B (25:52)

I'm a transplant from the northeast and so my threshold of what I'll drive in is very different from my community members now. And so it was a very low attendant event. But the girls that came, almost all of them I had never met before. And this one table that sat together, sat there for hours and talked and hung out. And to this day, they meet every month for a game night together. And none of them had ever met each other before an event. And I've gotten to go to some of those game nights and, and see it and they're in a big group chat that I can hardly keep up with. And it would be these friendships forged out of a random waffle party on a sleety night in, in February in central Kentucky. And so there's magic in it. There's magic possible in it if 10 people show up. There's magical possible in it if 50 people show up. You just have to have a door to open for someone.

A (26:44)

Yeah. So the concept of having kind of an unstructured. I mean, it's one thing if you're hosting like we have a speaker, you're going to come, we're going to have snacks and a speaker. There's kind of a built in flow that I can envision. But when you're talking about especially that first waffle party. Right. Galentine's evening get together, where you were. Did you even have your Facebook group at that point or was it like you kind of just put out the word?

B (27:14)

I did. I do think I had the Facebook group at the time, but I think I also just personally invited a bunch of friends. You can't neglect. The most followers you have are probably on your personal page. Like those are your most dedicated followers, right?

A (27:26)

Yeah.

B (27:26)

Because they actually like you and care about you and know you. And so I definitely think start there. Even if you don't have a group, you certainly don't need a group to do this. You know, that's a totally different conversation of having Facebook communities is still something you should be starting today. I think the answer could be yes and no. But you don't need anything because you are offering something that people want and that's enough. You have to find a way to get the word out. But the cool thing you're offering is going to be enough because so few people are doing it. How few free events are out there.

A (28:00)

Right.

B (28:01)

And to touch on that, not all of my events are free. There are a couple that are paid because the person leading them puts in resources. So for example, we did a. Again, I'm a boudoir photographer. We set up a lewd cookie decorating class. And so obviously there are supplies and things like that that need to be considered and that person's time. And so we did do a small ticket. I don't want anybody to get caught on this part, but you can change it up. I have some that are paid. I have some that are not paid. I have some that are educational. I have some that are just for fun. I have some that are. You have to be pretty physically. You have to be physically able to attend, such as the hike. I have some that anyone can attend. And so we have some that drinking is an option. We have some that are completely sober events. I think about that stuff probably more than the average bear, just because of my background of trying to plan for large scale community events.

A (28:50)

Yeah.

B (28:51)

But just know because you choose one doesn't mean you can't do the opposite of that on your next event. So don't feel like you have to cover every base on your very first.

A (29:00)

Event, I think that's great. And being thoughtful about those kinds of things is actually one of the challenges, I think for someone who may not have the background of being an event planner, an event coordinator like you really are. I used to host a conference and there is so much that goes into the being a good host before we jumped on this conversation. Now I'm going to pull up my little Google search again. There's a book, and I've talked about it on this podcast before by Priya Parker called, I think it's called the Art of Gathering. I lost it. But it is a great book for the thought. I mean, she goes way deeper on it than I ever did. But it's like sort of the intention that goes into putting together an event. And I guess that was what the question that I was asking before, what I really wanted to get from you was. If there's not a structure in a particular event, are you doing anything other than hosting a space for people to make small talk? Is there like, do you have an icebreaker game? Do you, do, you know, do you get up and say a welcome of some sort? Or is there an agenda of any kind? Or is it really just sort of like a mix and mingle and see how that works.

B (30:11)

So I would say most of the events when I look at them are pretty structured when I do them. You know, the finance class, the cookie class, all that kind of stuff. But then the, the client party and the Galentine's day party are examples of unstructured. And no, I'm just a space. I'm just a gathering place for people. And obviously I go around and talk to people, to my fellow introverts. Yes, I go around and make small talk and I don't die. It's going to be okay. You will need a nap after, but other than that it's fine. And so I'm excited to see these people. Almost always these are people that I've met before or new people. And so it's kind of a little bit of both. So no, I personally don't do icebreakers. I will stand up at some point and welcome everybody, let them know who I am. I let them know when the next event is and just want them to feel welcomed in the space. But let's, you know, let's talk about something simple everyone could do. Maybe next month when it's less hot, everyone could do, oh, let's pretend you're a family photographer. Everyone could do a walking club for moms. And once a month you meet at a local park and you get to walk and it doesn't cost you a dime. And it's something people can do and it's something people can use as an excuse to get out of the house. You can decide if you want to welcome kids to that event or not. It probably will be easier if you do. So someone doesn't have to find a sitter. But like, that's a great example of something that's not really structured. But you're gonna have a start and an end time and then things are gonna happen organically. And that's the beauty of these in person events are things that are gonna come of them that aren't your control, in your control. They're not. You don't have perfect metrics for them. I don't have a perfect metrics for the group that meets every month now for a game night Like I do for an ad that I would run on Facebook. I can't tell the exact impact of that. And so there is some trust in the process. But it's easy for me to trust now because I've seen it from the other side and I've done it and I've seen it benefit my business. And I wish I could extend that trust easily to all of your listeners, but just try it and you'll see.

A (32:06)

Well, do you have a story that you can think of off the top of your head where one of these gatherings, I mean, my guess is you've got a lot of stories, but where if you hadn't had some sort of in person event, it would. You would have missed an opportunity that you got otherwise.

B (32:23)

I can't tell you how many people have come to an event and said, oh my gosh, like, I never thought I would do boudoir, but like, I kind of want to do it now.

A (32:32)

Yeah.

B (32:33)

And like, I, hopefully this is not, I don't, I don't know if this is too much for your audience, but I do get told I'm an easy person to be naked in front of. So I didn't know how to harness that power. And to be clear, women tell me that, not men. I didn't get to use that power for evil. I feel like that's my superpower as a business owner is helping people feel comfortable. So, absolutely, I have, I had someone come in. I have a small lingerie boutique as well, and I had someone come in. We have events down there as well where we'll like launch a new style or something like that. And I had someone come in and buy something. And then within a week, she emailed me and she was like, I just, I loved being in your space. I loved meeting you. Let's do a session. And so again, it's all we, we talk all the time about how our marketing has to solve problems. Right. We know it has to solve problems. We know it has to get to the root of the hesitations of our clients. But there's a couple of things you can't do online, and one of them is helping people get to a space and feel comfortable in a space. I know that's not applicable to every photographer, but as a boudoir photographer or any studio photographer, if the person already knows how to get to you, knows where to park, knows the building is safe, knows that you're a real human being, so many things are out of the way without you having to show up 48 times on their Feed to gain that. You gained it immediately because they're just in the room with you.

A (33:45)

Right. And people trust their read of a human in person much more quickly than they trust their read of a person online. No question. I don't have a scientific study to tell you that, but I can, I can say that with absolute certainty. I feel like, you know, you're saying not every. This. Maybe that's not applicable to every photographer, but I totally would say that. Unless you're photographing landscapes and then after the fact that selling those landscapes in a gallery, anyone, Even if we're photographing products, the relationship with the person who is paying you a bunch of money to, you know, to get it right, to do the thing that they want you to do. Much less if you're photographing humans. Or much more, I guess, if you're photographing humans and they feel insecure about what they're going to look like, how they're going to feel when they see the photos, all those kinds of things. There is so much to be said for feeling comfortable with the person. And so I think all of what you're saying is super, super valuable. I love the fact that these are these kind of freeform events that aren't rooted in, hi, I am a boudoir and wedding photographer. And you know, here's. But do you do any selling other than just sort of the natural fact that it comes up in conversation when you're at your in person events, or do you kind of reserve that for mentioning it where appropriate in your Facebook group?

B (35:08)

But just like any marketing push, you have to decide on what your main goal is going to be. So sometimes my main goal is just to get people into my group, so I start warming that audience for the future selling. And sometimes my main goal is to really get to talk about boudoir and do those things. So a great example is if the event is in my space or an inside space in general. I used to rent spaces before I had a studio.

A (35:31)

Mm.

B (35:32)

I'm gonna have albums out, right? Gonna have stuff around. It's not gonna be pushed into your hands, but it's gonna be there. And people get curious and they go through them and they love them. And usually somebody who's in the albums is there in the room and they're.

A (35:46)

Like, oh my God, that's me.

B (35:47)

And they get to kind of experience what I consider the end result for my photography business, which is a printed product. They get to experience that in real life. So I absolutely consider that selling. But it's never in Like a way where I'm like standing up in front of everybody and like Vanna Whiting my albums.

A (36:03)

Right.

B (36:03)

That's not typically something I've done. I think there's lots of ways to go about it. I also choose not to collect email addresses from my events. And I tell people that, I tell people when they show up, your information will not be collected in any way. Because that's something that I don't like to go to events because I feel like I'm gonna get like time shared. Right. Like that people.

A (36:22)

Right, right, right.

B (36:23)

And I don't say no easily. I'm very easy to sell to. Like I am the girl that those like last minute checkout, like floor, like that's me. And so I choose not to do that because that is the way I wish all spaces were for me. But you could be doing giveaways, you could have client testimonials, you can have your work on display. Like there's so many subtle ways for you to directly benefit your business from this. But I really still think the superpower is the comfort that they're going to gain from being with you. And kind of what you just said, the legitimacy that comes from it. Like they see that you're a real person with a real business and anybody is capable of that. Anybody is capable of that. Regardless of studio town size, anything like that, you're hosting an event that immediately makes you seem more legitimate than maybe 10 other photographers they saw in their Google search.

A (37:11)

Right? Yeah, absolutely. I have talked before about a thing that I used to do in my photography business, which was that I taught a, a course in person. I mean it was, I say a course. It was really a class. It was a three hour class that I marketed specifically to like mom friend groups or like a non book club book club where like women would get together. I did giveaways for like when schools, private schools were hosting like auctions and stuff and would ask me to donate a session instead. I would donate one of these classes and then whoever bid on it would invite seven or eight friends. So I had a like an immediate much bigger thing. But what was fun about it was that I was teaching them how to photograph using their, you know, fancy camera, whatever. And so like my objectives were let's get you off of straight program mode and automatic mode and let's just talk about some, you know, quick, easy things like different perspectives and this, that and the other people love the class. And I had such a high booking rate from that because I wasn't specific specifically Selling. But they had the entire time they're looking at my photos, they're getting used to me as a person. We're all kind of laughing and hanging out together. So it was a little more like specific to photography and you know, focused in that way. But it, I like, I had exactly the same experience where those people who would never have known my name, much less been like top of mind, I'm going to call her. When the time came for them to get family photos, they were. My name was the name on their, at the top of their list.

B (38:49)

Yeah. It becomes a no brainer. Yeah, I love that. I love that story. I didn't know that. I didn't know that about you. So that's so cool. Yeah, there's so there's so many opportunities for that domino effect to take place. Right. Like you gave the thing away and then there was a little bit of advertising there and then the people showed up from the class and they had a good time for you with you and then you got to have that content too. And then all of those people went out into the world and said nice things about you. So it's just this total domino effect of not only like goodwill in the world, but also an audience that stays connected to you. And so like a great example is I'm sure everybody has these things in their community where it's like, you know, the best photographer of your city or whatever and it's usually a voting thing. We do great in those. And it's not because I'm the best photographer that's ever been, that's ever existed. It's because we have an audience that we've treated well and so they treat us well in return. So that's like another domino effect of having these connections with people, even if they're not clients yet, they're still cheerleaders of my business because we've gotten to connect and now we have a friendship. And so you never know where that domino effect is going to take you. And just like you said, like you may not have immediately thought all those people were going to sure. Come back and be business, you know, business. I can't think of the word when customers. There's the word.

A (40:05)

Yeah, yeah.

B (40:06)

You didn't think they'd all come back and be repeat customers, but how could they not? Because you're a delight.

A (40:10)

Well, and it is. I mean sometimes metrics are great. I love being able to track like I did this and it led to this. But oftentimes that's not the way marketing works. It's not like a straight A to B unless you are selling like a pack of gum, you know, something small and quick that somebody can buy. Instead it is like you plant all these little seeds and some of them die and some of them sprout and you just don't always have the benefit of knowing how that works. So I have one last question for you, which I actually think probably is a good lead into the freebie that you have created for this, but has to do with tips for making an event feel aligned and authentic, especially for somebody who is not a natural host or connector or, you know, it feels like an introvert where they're just getting their feet wet and they don't want it to feel forced or performative.

B (41:01)

Rely on your community. You have a community. So if you're not the person who wants to be up front, find the person who does. And she's going to be. So she or he's going to be so thankful that you gave them a space to meet that person. So you don't have to be the person, you know on stage. You know, we're not talking, but you know what I mean? You don't have to be the person on stage the whole time. Rely on your community if you need that. And then your magic is going to be in the interactions you have during your event. And so, yeah, like you said, we are going to do a freebie. I'm going to give you 20 ideas of in person events that you could use in your business. So step one for you is gonna be to go block off something on your calendar. Like when you're done with this podcast, go block off a date. You don't need to know what it is, you don't need to know who's coming. But go block off the day because that could be our hardest currency as business owners is finding time. So go block off the day for it. And then when you grab that freebie in the show notes, hopefully one of those speak to you and you can plan one of those for that day on the calendar. And if something doesn't feel right for you, pick something else. Reach out to either of us. We'll help you brainstorm a good idea for you. Like I said, I started with a waffle party because I loved when people compared me to Leslie Knope on Parks and Rec. So I did a waffle party that was very specific to me. And it's probably a weird thing if you've seen on Face value, like, come to Galentine's and eat some waffles. But it worked. And I promise there's something weird and specific to you that's going to make the magic happen for you and the people who already love you. And then the people who are going to love you, they just haven't met you.

A (42:35)

Love. So good. Michelle, tell everybody where they can find you, connect with you, because I do get the feeling that you're going to have lots of follow up questions from people I know. This has given me tons of fun ideas for my own photography community and beyond.

B (42:49)

Listen, I love brainstorming with people, so if you want to send me a message on Instagram, I'm at M Underscore Franzetti. Get anywhere close to that and you're gonna find me. Don't be afraid of the name. And then I do have a Facebook community group for photographers called of course Photography Friends.

A (43:05)

Love. So good. And it was funny as I was prepping for today, my friend Gabby, whenever she texts our little besties group, it's always friends. And I was like, so I love that you have leaned into that in your life and business. So fun. Well, this has been a pleasure. All of the links that you are mentioning are going to be in our show notes today, but thank you so much for joining. This was a super fun, really inspirational conversation.

B (43:30)

Thank you for having me.

A (43:32)

That's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out thiscan'tbethard.com to explore all the resources we have for photographers. And of course it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.