← This Can't Be That Hard
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- [00:00]
A
For a lot of photographers, the idea of public speaking sounds like hard pass, right? Maybe you are not trying to get on a big stage, maybe you're not even interested in teaching. But today's episode is all about why showing up and speaking, whether that's in someone's living room, at a local PTA meeting or just hopping on your Instagram stories, can be one of the most powerful ways to build trust, authority and connection with your ideal clients. Layla Ahmadi is a speaker, educator and conference host who has built her entire business at the intersection of creativity and communication. As the founder of the Creative Educator Conference and the Educators Lounge, she helps entrepreneurs not just teach, but teach well. With a background in classroom teaching, a thriving photography business, and now a full time focus on coaching creatives, Laylee brings a rare blend of heart and strategy to the conversation around standing up and speaking. Whether you want to grow your client base or take your first steps into the education world, you are going to get so much out of this conversation. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annemi Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how. Laili Imani welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. It is so lovely to see your smiling face. How are you today?
- [01:40]
B
Thank you so much. Oh, I'm excited to be here. I'm doing good.
- [01:43]
A
Excellent. Well, this has been a long time in the planning in the making. I met you earlier this spring and you were just about to get into your own conference and I was like, I want you to come on the podcast. And you were like, call me later. So I've been looking forward to this conversation for months and I know that everybody here is going to get tons out of this because I feel like this is. In fact, I'm trying to think in whatever, almost 400 episodes. I don't think I've ever done this specific topic before. So that's exciting. I don't get to say that very often these days. But before we launch in, in case there's anybody listening who doesn't know you and might not know your story even if they do know you, let's back up a little bit and talk about how you came into the space that you're currently in.
- [02:27]
B
Yeah. Oh my gosh, I'm sure there's so many people who have never heard of me before, so.
- [02:30]
A
Well, we're gonna change that today.
- [02:32]
B
Like I said, I'm so excited to be here and I loved meeting you and thank you for your patience because I was straight up drowning. I was like three, two weeks out of like having to host my own conference when we met at Reset. And it was just, it was wild. But I'm so happy to be here. I was a photographer for a long time, but before that I was actually a high school teacher and curriculum designer for our school district. And I loved teach. I was definitely not the teacher who took up photography in order to retire. Like, I know that's a really, really big thing and I totally get it. Like, I understand having been a teacher for a long time, I get the appeal. But that for me, not only was I a teacher, I was also the campus dance director and coach. And so for me it was like, I am a career teacher, that's what I'm going to be doing. But I'm one person. So I of course like casually burnt out. And after running my photography business and teaching, I realized like one of me not very many hours in the day and I took a leap of faith and became a full time photographer. And then from there my two loves and passions just kind of collided which were photography, the creative industry and running a business, plus teaching. I had so many people ask me, you know, how do you, how do you grow your business? How do you become a better photographer? How do you become a better business owner? And so I started teaching on that. And through that I realized in the creative industry so many people are teaching and speaking and getting on stages and conferences and they're just doing a terrible job, but it's not their fault. Like this is the thing is that it wasn't like I didn't come into this thinking like, wow, these are terrible people. It was like, wow, these people have so much to offer. But we're not taught how to teach. Teaching is a skill. So anyway, long story short, that's kind of what brought me to what I do today, which is teaching creative entrepreneurs how to teach what they know, how to monetize it, how to make impact, how to do it well and ethically and impactfully and not a lot of smoke and mirrors, like actually understanding how to convey what's in their brain to, to the other people in the industry. And it's been a wild journey, but one that I love. And yeah, that's kind of, that's kind.
- [04:46]
A
Of how I Got here well, and I love that. And I love that you raised this concept of, you know, teachers or rather photographers who have a lot of information but don't necessarily have the tools or the like built in skills to share that. I talk a lot about writing and how important writing is, the written word is in communicating value on your website and in your, you know, emails and everything that you do, blogging. All the, all the different ways that we communicate with people and how important that is. Even though we want our photos to just sort of speak for us, they don't do as good a job as we want them to, especially when it comes to actually getting people to come and book with you. And I feel like speaking takes that to the next level. It's like once you get to a point where your website is communicating reasonably well and your social media is, you know, you've got like a voice and a, and an idea of what it is that you want to communicate, the next level is really trying to figure out how to get that word out there. And I really feel like speaking is one of the least utilized avenues for photographers that's out there. Certainly, you know, there are photographers who are like, I want to go teach other photographers and they, they look into speaking. And that's not a bad thing. I mean, obviously that's a, that's a great reason. But I really do feel, and one of the reasons that I'm so excited to, to have this conversation today is that this is something that can be available to any photographer. And you know, speaking gigs do not need to be instructing other photographers. It can be something that you're doing in a local capacity. So, yeah, so let's kind of start there. Let's start with the person who's like about to tune out. Cause they're thinking, oh, you know, I'm not really interested in speaking because I'm not trying to get into the education world. How can someone who's not interested in getting into photography leverage speaking as a tool in their marketing or any other sort of way?
- [06:46]
B
Yeah, I mean, I love what you, I love the way that you kind of queued up this question. Honestly, I completely agree that speaking is super, super undervalued within the photography community because we want our art, we want our work to, like you said, to speak for itself. And even then we look at Instagram captions, reels, hooks and things like that. And you think, well, I don't need to do like a quote unquote talking head video as a photographer on a reel because nobody Cares. Like, I'm, I'm, I don't want to, you know, give tips and tricks to other photographers. So I'm not going to show up and speak to my potential clients. But honestly, there is so much to be said when you have a personal brand for the connection that can happen between a potential client and the photographer on a personal level. Like, I remember this actually speaks to what you said as well about writing being super important. I remember one of my highest paying brides when I was shooting weddings, she told her planner, it was one of those brides that like, wouldn't, like, her planner wouldn't let her talk to me herself. Right, right.
- [07:54]
A
The gatekeeper. You know what I mean? Yes.
- [07:57]
B
I was like, this is so weird, but okay. So the planner reaches out and she's like, well, I recommended six, several other photographers, but this bride really wants you because she heard you talking about your love for Bloody Marys and she's a day drinker.
- [08:11]
A
Oh my God.
- [08:11]
B
Like, what?
- [08:12]
A
I wonder how that bride would feel about that being the first thing that the planner introduced her as.
- [08:19]
B
Literally, it was, it was insane. But I was like, I love this. For me, like, obviously, ideal, ideal bride, ideal client, like, let's go. But it was one of those things where it was like, if I hadn't spoken about that and I, I mean, yeah, it was on my website, but she's not going to go on my website. I think she' saw like stories that I had done talking about like my top five Bloody Marys in Dallas. You know what I mean? Like, these are things that, yes, it's content, but it's mostly, I think in like the delivery that she thought, you seem like someone that could, I could be friends with. So that's one, one kind of thing to think about as a photographer who has no interest in teaching or speaking is like, how are you communicating? Because to me, speaking is not just standing on a stage. It's any platform you have. That's your stage in that moment. Same thing as when I would donate to local, I don't know, like, I don't know if you're a photographer out there who maybe gets hit up all the time for, you know, fundraisers at high schools that are like, can you donate a session? I would do that all the time because I love giving back to my community. But I would go, I would go to those fundraisers and I would speak to the people there and connect with the people there network. But I didn't think of it as networking. I was just speaking on my own behalf of why it was important to me. And every so often a mic would get handed to me and sometimes it was just, it was just at the tables at the silent auction, you know. And so I think, I think speaking gets this wrap of like quote unquote, public speaking from a stage. But there's so much more to it and I. And so much more potential to grow your business with.
- [09:47]
A
Yeah, anybody who has listened to this show for any period of time has talked, has heard me talk about. One of the sort of best marketing strategies that I ever employed in my photography business was creating this little like, like how to use your dslr. This was, you know, a while ago still so mirrorless was like a brand new thing. But all these moms had good cameras. They didn't, you know, they were just using them on auto or program mode. And I put together this little three hour, I called it cameras and Cocktails. And we would get together and I would just like show, you know, it was, it was like eight people. So it was just fun and very chill. But it put me in that sort of speaker role. It was not up on a stage, we were sitting around in somebody's living room tipping. But it gave me that sort of, you know, when the room went quiet, I was the one who started talking because I was sort of the leader and the organizer. And it put me in this position where those people, even though I wasn't there to sell, you know, like eight times out of ten would come back and hire me at some point in the next couple of years because we got to know each other and it was just a fun way to sort of connect and build that sort of trust and authority. So I'm, I'm a big fan of speaking. Even if you don't consider yourself to be like a stand up on the podium and speak kind of a person.
- [11:09]
B
Yeah, 100%. I love that. I can relate to that so much. I feel like, I love that. Cameras and cocktails is really cute. I feel like that is the perfect example. And knowing that what you said about building trust like that these days, I mean, at any point it's always been important, but I do think it's like exponentially more important right now where we're at in the industry, that to stand out, you've got to build trust, you've got to build it fast, you've got to build connection and the know like. And trust. It is an ongoing effort. But a great shortcut is absolutely understanding how to communicate and where to, where to step in as that like leader within your community, within your business really. And whether that means that you're an educator or not, I still think you can be a leader as a photographer and as a business owner.
- [12:01]
A
And that automatic credibility goes a long way, especially in a day and age where there's so much content overload online and there's now so much AI content and people are second guessing like, is this a real person? Is this a bot? Am I getting, is, am I getting scammed somehow? When you show up and you meet somebody or they see you, you know, speaking to a group or even just in a, in a group? Yeah, like you said at an auction or at an event, there's no second guessing that.
- [12:30]
B
Yeah, absolutely. I feel like that's the number one question I get asked all the time is that, oh, how are you going to come, how are you going to combat AI? How are you going to combat all the, the things that are out there that make you feel replaceable? And it's like you're really not like being a human being that is able to make these connections. That's what sets you apart.
- [12:47]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so before we get into people who are potentially thinking about speaking as a gateway into the education world, do you have any favorite other recommendations for people who are looking to build more trust and authority locally in terms of opportunities for speaking and networking type events?
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B
Yeah, absolutely. Okay. This is like rapid fire. But I am super, I'm super passionate about this because this is kind of what I did and I feel like no one else was really doing it in my area at the time. But the first example I gave of like when you get asked to donate, obviously you want to make sure it's the right arena. So if it's within your niche, assuming. But don't wait for them to approach you, like reach out to groups that make sense for your niche within your local area. So for your work, whether that's like, let's say you're a family photographer, local elementary PTAs, mom groups, things like that, like, where can you show up and make those connections? Then if you want to take it like a step above, I think about when I was doing senior photography, we have a lot of like local groups for girls and their moms. They have like multiple different branches within that. And so I would get recommended to one and then the other and then the other, and then I would seek out the same type of group maybe like within a 30 minute to 45 minute drive from me, and ask if I could come and like talk to the Girls or, you know, it's again, like, it's not as. It's not as much of like, pitching yourself. Because if this is really just truly kind of trying to connect within your industry. And then I would also say local networking groups, like your local business networking groups, a lot of like, chamber of commerce, women's associations look like kind of the think like on the. More of like the old school, I guess, of like what it. What small business ownership and entrepreneurship, where those people with brick and mortars are hanging out, making those connections there and contributing something that's helpful. Because even if you're not an educator, you typically know something that could be helpful to the people who are also your peers. Let me take one little segue. You've got to also know how to actually speak, right? So like, if you're, if you're sidebar, I need to work on this. Yeah, Sidebar. Like, if you're like, I've never spoken before in my life. Start slow, right? Like, start with the donating. Start. Start with the donating before you start to, like, try to get on a stage. But I wanted to give, like, as.
- [15:13]
A
Many examples as possible.
- [15:14]
B
So as you're doing that, as you're donating your time, as you're showing up, you're also building your skills. You're also building your skillset of learning how to communicate and learning how to speak and learning how to connect and then being able to kind of like, take it that one step further of maybe you're showing up at the networking group and then after going for a couple of times, then you're like, hey, I'd love to share this one topic with the rest of the group, you know, and talking to the person in charge.
- [15:37]
A
Yeah. And I love what you said about, because I do. I can just like, hear people out there in the ether saying, I don't have any idea what I could share that would be of any value whatever. And I love this idea of, like, show up, have conversations with people when you tell them that you're a photographer, especially once you get into, like, this is my niche. Da, da, da. What are the questions that they're asking you? Like, those things will start to come up again and again. And you do have that information. You do have that authority and that knowledge. And it is valuable to other people. I feel like, especially as photographers, so many other, you know, business people and other people in other, like, areas of life want the information that we have. Like, photography is such a premium sort of commodity or knowledge thing. So anyway, it's not like saying, like, oh, I'm a consultant. And then the conversation drops off when you say you're a photographer. People are generally, like, going to come back with questions.
- [16:35]
B
Yeah, they're going to be interested. And sometimes that interest doesn't look how we want it to look, but it does open the door for, you know, noting what it is that they're asking what it is that they're interested in. And also, like, if. If it is a reaction that you're not in love with. Like, I know I ran into that a lot, especially when I first started my business, and it was a lot of, you know, like, senior high schoolers, dads being like, oh, like, what you are. Like, what does that mean? You know, kind of just, like, condescending. And I was like, okay, so this is something I need to notate that, like, how can I come up against this. This misconception and teach the people around me in my community that, like, no, I actually have a legitimate business. I am a business owner. You know, coming up against all of the. The misconceptions and being able to, like, teach what it is that I wanted people to perceive me as, that's a superpower, too. Like, that's something that comes of being. Comes from showing up and speaking with others is you then can control people's perception of you so much more easily than if you just go out and you're like, yeah, here's my word.
- [17:36]
A
Yeah, it's me. Now it is a much more proactive versus reactive kind of a conversation. I love that. Okay, so now let's take a few minutes and talk about the sort of importance or, like, opportunities that speaking can give to someone who is interested in building an education wing of their business or brand, whether that's within the photography community or business in general or anything else, really.
- [18:08]
B
Yeah. I mean, there's so much that comes from taking the stage, like, whatever that looks like for you, whether it be virtual in person, whether it's a podcast episode or interview or conversation like this one, or going to a conference and being a speaker, breakout keynote, whatever you want to, whatever you end up at the opportunities, I think, for people who are willing to become really great speakers and then take what they've learned and share with others, the doors that open are kind of insane. And it's one of those things where it's like, I would encourage anybody who's considering this to take a look at what they want the outcome to be before they start on their journey. So, like, if you want the outcome to be that you are the go to photographer, industry expert in X, Y and Z, like in whatever your niche is, then you need to start thinking about like, okay, so what message is important to me? What makes sense for me to start sharing about? And how can I share that? In what platform can I share that? In what, in what type of speaking can I share that? Is, is it that I need to start a podcast or a YouTube? Maybe you're better in person than you are virtually, like, being able to kind of see, sit and reflect on what you want the outcome to be before you start is going to help narrow down the possibilities and the opportunities that are going to come your way. Because typically what happens is it's like, it tends to be one of those things where it's like a slow start for almost everybody and then really quickly a lot of things start coming your way and you kind of have to be discerning on like, oh, what opportunity do I actually want to come up with this? So I always like to say, like, beat that. Like beat it to the punch. Like, figure out what you want out of it before you start actually like approaching.
- [19:52]
A
Yeah. And it to, to use a sort of comparison that I think a lot of photographers can, can understand and sort of cling on to. When you first start in photography, everybody says, oh, you should niche down, you should niche down, establish your niche, find your niche. And so many people are like, but what if nobody hires me because I've, you know, put myself in this tiny little box? And the truth is that if you are really clear about what it is that you ideally want to do, other opportunities will come along. It just then, as more and more opportunities start to show up, gives you a much easier sort of filter to use to kind of reduce the, the overwhelm. You can say, oh, this one makes sense, this one doesn't. This one leads me closer to that goal that I'm aiming for. This one, you know, is going to take me on two much of a side path. So there are a lot of photographers out there who are teaching and speaking and doing all that sort of stuff. And I know you have a ton of experience working with creatives in general, but with a lot of photographers specifically. I know because before I ever got to meet you, I knew all about you from a ton of my friends who love your conference and love what you do. But I would be super interested to hear your take. And you kind of hinted at this earlier on, like, what makes the people.
- [21:15]
B
Who are good, good?
- [21:17]
A
And where do a lot of people who are trying to get into that. Get stuck and tripped up.
- [21:22]
B
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think one, just having been a photographer myself, you're right. I work with a lot of photographers and I love it because I obviously, like, have walked the path that they're walking. But I think one, before I say anything, because I am a pretty. I mean, I like to say I'm kindly blunt, like. But I will tell. I will. I will say the things I will say. Anybody who is interested in pursuing education, I don't want them to hear this and think like, oh, well, I don't want that to be me, so I'm not even gonna try. That is the opposite. My entire livelihood is based on hoping that people want to become educators and helping them do it well. But there are a lot, a lot of people out there in the photography industry who, similarly to, I would say, draw the parallel to your photography business. If you come in right off the bat, charging prices and expecting outcomes. As somebody who's been in business for five to 10 years, obviously you're going to disappoint some people. There is an entire skill set to be learned when it comes to being a really good speaker or teacher. There are just in the same way that there is an entire skill set to be learned as a photographer and an artist. I think that the pitfalls, the things that people get stuck on is when they try to jump from point A to point Z instead of doing all the hard work in between. And listen, I get it, because we see in our industry, in social media, we see the quick successes or what we perceive as the quick successes of other people. And we think, oh, well, they've only been doing X, Y and Z for two years, so clearly I will too. But we don't have the whole story, y'. All. So, like, maybe their students are not thriving and in a year from now, their trust level is going to be at zero because then they've gained the reputation for not delivering for their students. I know so many amazing photographers who are incredible artists and have, like, the best, best work, be the worst mentors possible. Like. And it's not because they're bad people. It's because they don't know how to create transformations for their clients and they just show up with no plan. They're like, yep, I'm going to charge you an arm and a leg to quote, unquote, pick my brain. Nothing comes from that session. And then those students, those people who have paid for coaching, are going and telling their friends, well, don't waste your money with Laylee, she don't know anything. Like, she didn't help me at all. And again, it's not a reflection, I don't think, on people's characters, generally on character, generally speaking. But it is really important to think about if you are entering this realm. Don't take what you see on the Internet and assume that you know everything. It's gonna take time and work to become a really strong educator, and that's okay. Just like it took time and work to become an expert, an amazing photographer.
- [24:23]
A
Yeah. And I think that, by the same token, that there are these people out there who do a really good job at, you know, putting icing on the cake.
- [24:33]
B
Right.
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A
So they're, like, they're great at social media and maybe better than me.
- [24:37]
B
Like, way better than me.
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A
We all know that Dana is the only thing that's making me look even remotely okay online. I guess my feeling there is there are a lot of people who know how to make it look good. But then you, you know, you hear these horror stories about courses that have no content or, like, a retreat that was totally useless, and, you know, they, like, barely showed up. Whatever. On the flip side, I know so many people who have such. So much to give, and their heart is absolutely in the right place, and it's all about service and trying to kind of pay it forward and all those kinds of things. But the skill set that is required to promote that is its own special skill set. Right. And I feel like that's what I love about what you are bringing to the creative industry, because you do. I mean, I got to actually see you speak, which I felt like was a hard thing to grab that seat at the conference that we went to, but it was like, yep, this woman nails it. Like, you know what you're talking about, you know what you're doing, can walk the walk. And I love that you have now created this entire sort of community of creatives who are learning to translate their knowledge and their expertise into something that is sellable, you know, monetizable. That will help not only them, but also all of these future students of theirs.
- [26:01]
B
Well, thank you so much for saying that. That means a lot to me, honestly. But also, yeah, I'm just really passionate about it. I think when you are an educator and you have any kind of desire to share, and that's why I try really hard to always say, like, this is not a reflection of the person's heart. Yeah, we want income, we want money. Like, that's normal. But typically, people who want to share or Teach or speak. They want it to go well. Like, nobody wants to be a bad educator, But I just think there aren't a lot of great resources out there. And that's why I'm really passionate about our community. And I think that that's why our community is full of people like you and like our friends who are out here just trying to make other people's lives and businesses better and more successful. And so my encouragement would just be, jump in, start trying, learn from every single thing that you do, and be humble enough to get help where you need it and to get critique as often as possible.
- [26:59]
A
Okay, I love that. I literally was about to be like, okay, so how does somebody jump in and get started? And you beat me to the punch. If somebody is brand new to speaking and they have never, you know, since they got into the photography world or like, in this stage of their career, have never taken to the stage or taken to a podium or even had, like a been on a podcast before or whatever, where do you have any. Like, this is the first step. This is the baby step that you like people to kind of start with just to dip their toe in that water.
- [27:31]
B
Yes. I love this question because I have two things that I like to recommend. One is whatever platform you hang out on. So whether it's Instagram or TikTok or even your newsletter or for your email list, whatever it is, like, don't go adding another, like, thing if I, if I, I use Instagram because that's where I hang out. But, like, start showing up on Instagram and sharing, sharing your face and sharing your voice, and don't put too much pressure on it, because the great thing and the bad thing, but the great thing about social media is, like, I mean, it's just feeding. Like, it's fine. Just put it out there and if it sucks, delete it later. Like, it's not a big deal. Go live. And if, again, like, let's say it's your email newsletter, record a loom video or, like, hit record on zoom, don't overthink it. Just share a few things and see what the response is or if there is any response, and sometimes there's not. So I would say the second part to that tip is, like, do it a few times. Do it a few times. And then the second thing is if you're serious, like, and you want to jump in, like, on a more proactive, like, I'm ready, like, let's. You're like an action taker. If you're like me and you're a little more timid. Like I would start with tip one, just like show up and do a couple of things. But for some people, they're a little bit more of a go getter. I would say start offering free and I'm, I. People are gonna get so mad. But I don't care, don't charge. Do a couple of one on one short, like 20 minute conversational quote unquote mentoring sessions. And I say quote unquote because like I truly believe if you're gonna charge for something, they're better be results at the end of it, like do it for free. Learn what people are wanting to know about, learn what people think that they can learn from you about, write it down and then start sharing content around those things. Because the thing is like my catchphrase when I back when I used to have my signature course, which was at the time the Creative Educator Academy, I would always say if it's a question for one, it is a question for the many. And so start with the one. And that's usually easier because a lot of times photographers have a lot of people who follow the them who maybe are other photographers, but typically it's mostly our, our prospective clients or we would hope so out of your, let's say a few hundred people that follow you, maybe one of them is an aspiring photographer who wants to learn from you and then they get a free 20 to 30 minute conversation and you get so much input about what people are looking for from you.
- [29:57]
A
Right, I know.
- [29:58]
B
And you get to practice talking to them. Right. Like you get the practice.
- [30:01]
A
Well, and it's not even just the practice talking, it's like the practice of being in the, the teacher's seat. And I, I loved what you said about if you know, one person has a question, then a lot of people have spoken like a true teacher.
- [30:14]
B
That is, I feel like I had.
- [30:16]
A
A high school teacher who would say that all the time. But yeah, it is so valuable to listen, pay attention, see what kinds of questions people are asked, are asking you about. We all have this sense of this is what I know, this is what I'm good at. But there's a lot of value to be found in finding out what other people feel like are your strong suits or the things that you have specific insights on. So all of this has been, it's just full of such great, so many great ideas and little tips and all those kinds of things. Given that we only have a short container, a small container to have this conversation. And I imagine that there are going to be plenty of people who have other kinds of questions and want to binge more of what you put out there. Let everybody know where they can find you.
- [31:00]
B
Yeah. So I hang out a lot on Instagram and I love a good voice Memo, like Voice DM at Lamadi. My website is just Layla Maddie.com and I have a podcast that I share a lot for. I mean, everything is for educators over there. And it's just called the Lali Imati podcast. So I'm kind of hard to like, not find that once you know my.
- [31:17]
A
First name, which we will spell for everybody in the show notes. But it's L, A, Y L, E, E. So it's as phonetic as it gets. Exactly. I know with a name like anime, I get stuck all the time being like, no, no, no. A, N, E. Yeah. So anyway, relatable. Well, such a pleasure getting to connect with you. And this has been. This has been so great. But mostly it's so great to see your face. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
- [31:41]
B
Back at you. Thank you for having me.
- [31:42]
A
Wonderful. Have a great day. That's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out this can't be that hard.com to explore all the resources we have for photographers. And of course, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.