339 - From Finance to Full-Time Pet Photographer with Ina Jalil

Summary

Podcast Summary:

This Can't Be That Hard — Ep. 339
From Finance to Full-Time Pet Photographer with Ina Jalil
Host: Annemie Tonken
Guest: Ina Jalil
Date: October 21, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Annemie Tonken is joined by Ina Jalil, who shares her transformative journey from a secure, high-paying finance job in Australian government to building a multi-six-figure pet photography business. The conversation explores the mindset shifts, business systems, and actionable strategies that enabled Ina to thrive in a niche market. Both aspiring and established photographers will find a wealth of practical advice and inspiration in Ina’s transparent retelling of her leap into entrepreneurship.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin Story: From Grief to a New Calling

• Ina’s pet photography business began after the loss of her beloved dog, Mac, which revealed the scarcity of photographers specializing in capturing the deep human-animal bond—especially outdoors ([03:02–05:45]).
• Her search for memorable photos with Mac illuminated a market gap and ignited her mission:

  “I wish there was someone that could give this opportunity to me at this time. And I thought, well, why not do it? Because there's no one doing it.” —Ina ([05:45])

2. Initial Struggles and Taking the Leap

• Photography began as a hobby (since 2010), with modest earnings (~$5,000/year).
• Ina “went all in” on pet photography in early 2020, tackling fears about further niching down and building her portfolio through model calls and free sessions ([06:30–08:05]).

3. Investing in Growth: The Business Coach Decision

• Ina made a pivotal $5,000 investment in a business coach (Alex Kearns), despite fears as it equaled her prior annual earnings ([08:05–10:05]):

  “Within one and a half months, I made that money back already ... It just kept increasing.” —Ina ([08:50])

• Adopted in-person sales (IPS), pushing past discomfort with “selling.”

4. Managing Multiple Roles During the Transition

• While working full-time as a government finance manager, Ina juggled 2–3 (sometimes up to 8) photography sessions per week, a feat made possible by remote work during COVID ([10:05–12:52]).
• Her first full business year brought $40,000 revenue—an eightfold increase ([12:52–13:09]).

5. Translating Corporate Skills to Self-Employment

• Ina’s finance background proved invaluable for business operations, though she had to learn to stop “saying yes to everyone” and overcome mindset blocks around scarcity ([15:47–17:39]).

  “Our brain’s always trying to protect us ... I'm gonna be homeless and die in a ditch. That's not gonna happen.” —Ina ([17:32])

6. Quitting the Day Job: Practical Steps & Mindset

• She planned her exit, leveraging long-service and annual leave for a 4-month financial runway, and operated as if she no longer had a salaried income for a smoother transition ([17:39–22:19]).

  “I operated as if I wasn’t getting any other money ... Go, oh my gosh, it’s possible. Why didn’t I do this sooner?” —Ina ([20:01])

7. Business Systems and Scaling

• Adopted “profit first” financial management, set up CRM and automations, and prioritized paying herself first ([23:23]).
• Hired a virtual assistant (VA) before going full-time, contrary to typical advice. This freed her time for high-value tasks and became one of her best decisions ([23:56–26:22]):

  “It was the best decision because then the social media stuff, I didn’t have to like worry about that so much.” —Ina ([25:22])

• Continually refined processes using tools like Loom for training and ClickUp for documentation; systems enable her to onboard new staff with ease ([28:29–31:25]).

8. Rapid Growth: Numbers and Leverage

• Successive revenue leaps: $40k (2021) → $90k (2022) → $190k (2023) → $240k (2024), all primarily pet photography ([32:39–34:12]).
• Increased revenue while reducing bookings, thanks to higher average sales via in-person consultations and curated client experience ([34:12–34:41]).

9. Marketing Strategies and Data-Driven Adjustments

• Committed to tracking everything—sales, ad campaigns, clients—to measure what actually works, reflecting her financial analysis skills:

  “I track everything. I track my numbers, my business analyst mindset and finance. Everything needs to like, I need to know whether it’s working or not.” —Ina ([35:43])

• Notable marketing win: a simple, brightly colored text ad for International Dog Day yielded 74 leads, 18 bookings, and $38,000 from a $400 spend ([36:24–37:39]):

  “Calling Canberra dog parent. Registered to win for this competition ... That was just a text ... I had to turn off the other ad.” —Ina ([38:46])

10. Resilience and Mindset in Business

• Emphasizes the importance of taking action when bookings slow:

  “When I start spiraling into negative thinking, that’s when my business starts sinking ... So I put things into action.” —Ina ([39:01])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On overcoming scarcity mindset:
  “I need to make sure that you know, I, I ran the profit first method ... and that was one of the things is paying myself was really important.” —Ina ([23:23])
• On investing in herself:
  “I signed up to a lot of courses and education. And I think that's something that have been really beneficial that I invested early on myself.” —Ina ([27:01])
• On growth strategy:
  “Reducing volume but increasing profitability.” —Annemie ([34:12])
• On adapting marketing by data:
  “If you change everything and then you're going it's still not working well or it's working: which change helped that to work?” —Ina ([38:07])
• On the power of follow-through:
  “That willingness to bet on yourself but also follow through … how much that has compounded in such a short period of time.” —Annemie ([41:09])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ina’s background & Mac’s story: [03:02–06:30]
• From hobbyist to paid photographer: [06:30–08:05]
• Hiring a business coach (risk and payoff): [08:05–10:05]
• Juggling dual careers & COVID’s silver lining: [10:05–12:52]
• First full-time year and corporate skills crossover: [12:52–15:47]
• Mindset challenges and quitting the day job: [17:39–22:19]
• Implementing financial systems & hiring support: [23:23–26:22]
• Refining processes—VAs, SOPs, tech tools: [28:29–31:25]
• Revenue growth and business model evolution: [32:39–34:41]
• Marketing wins and data tracking: [35:43–38:46]

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Resource Links and Call-to-Action

• Ina's Podcast: The Pet Photographer's Journal — applicable to any portrait photographer, with both solo and guest episodes.
• 15-Minute Weekly Marketing Plan Freebie: A downloadable guide for consistent, actionable marketing (link in show notes).
• Ina's Business: Ina J Photography

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Key Takeaways for Listeners

• Don’t be afraid to niche down—market gaps can be lucrative.
• Invest in yourself early (coaching, VA support, education).
• Systematize everything: finances, client experience, staff training.
• Track key metrics and marketing outcomes; adjust based on data, not hunches.
• Prioritize mindset work as much as marketing—resilience and self-belief matter.
• Take calculated risks, and always follow through on what you commit to (coaching, hires, campaigns).

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For more actionable advice and inspiring stories, check out other episodes of "This Can't Be That Hard," and visit the show notes for direct links to Ina's resources and podcast.

Transcript

[A]

What does it really take to turn photography into a full time, profitable career?

[B]

It's a question that for many of.

[A]

Us can sort of make or break.

[B]

This dream that we have.

[A]

But Ina Jaleel didn't just figure it out. She made it work in one of the most unexpected niches out there. Ina knew that she was taking a risk when she walked away from a six figure government job in finance to.

[B]

Build her pet photography business.

[A]

But she had a plan. And in just a few short years, she has built a multi six figure business doing exactly that.

[B]

Not by working harder than anyone else.

[A]

But by structuring her business to work for her. In this conversation, Ina and I talk about what gave her the confidence to make that leap. The systems that she put in place to ensure financial stability, and how she's grown not just her client base, but her profitability while staying focused on this one very specific niche. Whether you're toying with the idea of going full time or trying to scale more sustainably, Ina's story is packed with insight and inspiration. So let's get into it. Welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. My name is Annami Tonkin and I help photographers run profitable, sustainable businesses that they love. Each week on the podcast, I cover simple, actionable strategies and systems that photographers at every level of experience can use to earn more money in a more sustainable way. Running a photography business doesn't have to be that hard. You can do it and I can show you how.

[B]

Ina, welcome to this Can't Be that Hard. I am so excited to finally have.

[A]

You on the show.

[B]

I have known you, it's been years, I think, at this point, and your story is such an inspirational one. I'm just like dying to dive in. How are you today?

[C]

I'm good. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast. I've been listening to your podcast for so long and it's so exciting to actually be on it. So I'm really excited to be here today.

[B]

Well, the honor is mine. I. I have followed your story just because again, you've been sort of in my world for a long time and you're such, your story is such an inspiration and the way you run your business, I'm like, I wish this girl didn't live all the way across the world, otherwise I would definitely want to get together and sort of have you share all your secrets over coffee. So this is the second best thing and I figured we may as well share all of your secrets with the rest of the world.

[C]

Of course, I mean, it would be nice to actually catch up in person one day. I do, I do want to plan a trip to the US and visit everyone that I sort of talk to online and just do a whole coffee, catch up pretty much all around. It's got to be.

[B]

That sounds amazing. Yes. Well, you name the time and place, but also, you know that Australia is one of my favorite places to come visit. So I will take you up on. We'll do it in both directions. But in the meantime, why don't you sort of start us off by giving everyone listening a quick introduction to who you are and a little bit of the story about your business.

[C]

Okay. So I'm Ina and I run my pet photography business currently full time. It's Ina J Photography. I started back in 2020, so I specialize in outdoor dog photography, but I also do studio and also photograph other pets. Now the whole thing started was because actually it's my dog and it's probably a similar story to what other pet photographers might have, but, you know, this is really close to my heart because my dog, Mac, So back in 2020 or 2019, he passed away from heart failure, who's only nine years old. So he was diagnosed two years before that and I was told he only had six months. I was looking for a pet photographer because being a photographer, I was a photographer. I love photography. I was doing photography for so long as a hobby and a side hustle, you know, since 2010. Never made any money out of it. I've just been doing it as a hobby, like charging 250 and giving all the digitals that I did, families, events, even the newborns, and even tried maternity. I tried everything and probably the most I made every year was $5,000. That's it. And you know, I had photographed him myself, you know, with my dslr and I got really beautiful photos of him, but realized that actually didn't have many photos with him. And I thought, well, I need someone else to capture these photographs. And Mac was a bit of a special dog. He didn't like every single person. And so I did try to get, you know, a family photographer to capture his photos, but it just didn't capture his personality. And so I was looking for a pet photographer and after a while I did find one and it was a studio photographer. And that was pretty much. We got the photos done 24 hours before he passed away. So it was. Yeah, it was really special. Sorry if I get a bit emotional because.

[B]

No, I, I can totally understand.

[C]

Yeah, it, it was, it was really hard and my other dog, James came along as well because I want to make sure I get some photos with both of them together. And yeah, I, I found the studio photography is not really my thing. I. You probably see from my brand and from my Instagram that I'm very vibrant, colorful. I love colors and I love the outdoors. And I got the photos done. It was just a black and black, black backdrop, white backdrop. And then one of my dog, James was very nervous, very anxious during the whole process and I got the photos done. I'm thankful I got, I got them done, but I wish that I had some more photos that captured his personality. And like, you know, I'm glad the photographer fitted us in because I'm so grateful for that because I wouldn't have had these photos and I do have these photos hanging up on my wall in my living room. But I just wanted something that actually captured more of his personality and more of our connection outdoors where we actually spent a lot of our time. And I thought, you know, I wish there was someone that could give this opportunity to me at this time. And I thought, well, why not do it? Because there's no one doing it. And I never thought of pet photography was a thing until I started needing it. And so, and so I thought, well, all right, let's try and have a look into this thing. And I started deep diving into podcasts and listening to a lot of different podcasts, including Andrew Helmich's podcast. That's how I found you. That's how I found, you know, a lot of the pet photographer business coaches and mentors in the world. And then, you know, basically one January 2020, I decided, you know what, I'm going to change up my website and go all in in pet photography. It scared me because I thought, I don't get any clients anyway. Like, I don't, I don't make any money anyway. If I change it to pet photography, how, like it's even niche, like it's even more niche than what I currently do and that's going to limit my clients. And I was freaking out going. But then I thought, you know what, let's just try it out and see. And then, yeah, it all started from there. And I started listening to more podcasts. I did some model calls and I did some free sessions to start building my portfolio, but I didn't really know how to run in person sales. Sure. And so I started doing that finally, just willy nilly. And then at around, I think around September or August 2020, I decided to hire a Business coach. And that was a scary investment because it was $5,000. And I mean, back then, because I was, I was making only $5,000 a year for my business, I was gonna.

[B]

Say that was an entire year's worth.

[C]

I was just like, that's a lot of money and that's my personal money that I'd be using because I didn't really have any money for the business. So it was scary to do that. And but I thought, you know what, this business coach, Alex Kearns from Hunt Studio, she's in wa, she's got lots of experience and, you know, she said, if you implement it within, you know, the next three, four months, you'll make your money back. And I was. And I thought, you know what, I'm determined to do this and I'm the type of person where if I do invest in something, I would like work hard and take action to try and make it back or at least try to do it. And yeah, so I just went, you know what, yes, I'll sign up. I went actually on the payment plan because I thought I didn't have that money up front. Went on the payment plan, signed up for the program. I think it was an eight week program. Within one and a half months, I made that money back already. And then it just started. Yeah, pretty much. First month I made, I think around 2, 2,000, 3,000. Second month, yeah, I made 3,000 again. Third month I made 4,000. And it just kept increasing, increasing. And I was like, oh my God, this is a thing. And at first with ips, I was like, really not confident about selling because I had that thing going, oh, I've got to sell to people, I've got to ask them for money. And it was just, yeah, it wasn't a process that I'm very familiar with now. My background, I actually was working in the Australian government as a business analyst at that time. But my background before that my career was in finance. I was a assistant business finance manager for the government, so managing internal budgets, mainly for the government. So this is a complete opposite, you know, turnaround. And I was doing this alongside my full time job. And I don't know how I did it back then, but I, I think I was doing around two or three shoots a week alongside the full time job.

[B]

Which is a lot.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, which is a lot. Like, I didn't think about it then, but it was a lot. And I think, you know, towards 20, 21, some days I, or some weeks, I end up doing eight shoots a week. Wow. And yeah, but that's incredible.

[B]

I just did it especially given sort of the overlay of, you know, it's a new business, it's a very niche business.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And there was, you know, Covid was happening at that time, so there was all sorts of additional making. Making everything more chall.

[C]

Exactly. I was looking at my numbers. I did 140 something sessions in I think 20, 21. Basically in one of those years. I did a lot of sessions. Yeah. And I mean that was. I was offering the model of a free print. So there were some of those sessions that I didn't make any money. So my average sale was probably back then around maybe $600. But I thought I just need to keep doing it consistently, keep building my skills, keep trying different things, try different marketing approaches. And. Yeah, and I just, I just thought, wow, this is actually a thing. I'm actually making money out of this. And you know, it was just like, this is exciting and I get to do what I love. And so I was doing it alongside my full time job. It was exhausting because I had to balance the shoots, the client interactions, the editing the social media and taking care of your own. Oh, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like actually leaving, living, like living alive. And then.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I guess the good thing is this is a bit dodgy, but. Because Covid was probably as a blessing in disguise because I was working from home most of the time, so I was kind of cheating maybe because I'll be in my laptop for work and then I had my other laptop. So when I was in meetings, I was listening to the meetings, I was editing as well. So.

[B]

Sure. Well, and I mean, the truth is, I think a lot of people during COVID found out when their desk job moved to a remote place that they were able to get, yes, an entire day's worth of work done without the distractions and the like, you know, oh, we're gonna have 18 meetings today for no particular reason whatever. Then all of a sudden you're able to get everything that you're responsible for done and you have additional time. I mean, a lot of people left their desk jobs during that time to pursue other things because they like their eye. They had enough time to look up and think like, oh, I don't have to make my money this way, I can do it this other way.

[C]

Exactly. Yeah. And yeah. And I think it's. Yeah, it just really driven me to go, wow, this is an actual thing. I'm just looking at my numbers again. So. Yeah, the first year, which is the first proper year, I did it 2021. I made $40,000.

[A]

Hang on guys, I have a quick message for you. Let's take a minute to talk about marketing. If you need more clients or you need better clients, or if you just struggle to keep up with the marketing that you're already doing, I want you to check out the Consistency Club. This isn't just another course to watch. It's not a workbook to fill out. Each month, our club members get a done for you marketing plan with email and social templates that take the guesswork out of nurturing your current clients and connecting with new ones. So instead of staring at a blank screen wondering what on earth you're supposed to say or do, you'll have practical tools that help you get your marketing done in a fraction of the time. We've also just launched our new AI powered blog builder tool Inside the Membership, which is blowing everyone's minds. Whether you've never touched AI, have been disappointed by the generic robotic sounding copy that you've gotten in the past, or have a custom GPT trained up to actually do a pretty good job for you, I would love to show you what this blog builder is capable of. And now is the time to give it a go because along with some exciting new features, our prices are going to be increasing in the new year. Go to this can't bethard.comclub to try it out for a month. You've got nothing to lose and a whole lot of new booked clients to gain.

[C]

So. Wow.

[B]

So a jump of. What is that? Eight times what you had ever made before.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So, okay, I want to pause for a second in the, in the timeline of the story and talk about how. Because I feel like it's always interesting talking to people who come from backgrounds that include things like finance and, you know, business analysis and things like that. And when they're doing that in a corporate setting, or in your case, in a governmental setting. And then you take that knowledge, which of course follows you everywhere, but you.

[A]

Are in your own business.

[B]

I feel like there's usually this moment of like, wait a minute, I'm doing this all wrong and I know better. And it sounds like, I mean, obviously the business coach piece helped you get your ducks lined up, but tell me about kind of the, the path that you had to follow as you were figuring out the sort of the businessy side of it and the financial side of it. And then I, I'm sure that we're going to get to the part where you decided you were ready to leave the desk Job.

[C]

Yeah. So I think having, you know, seen that it's a possibility that I could make money because I went from, As I said, 5k to 40k, and then the next year, I think I jumped to about $90,000. So that was 2022 or. But having seen that year, it's possible. And I thought I had a look at all the different marketings I've done and I looked at what worked, what didn't work. Especially I did a book project that year in 2021, which was where most of that half of that revenue came from. I did, I think, 5049 sessions from the book project in six months, period. And then one of the things, though, that I was thinking going, okay, it's working, it's going, well, what if I did this full time? But something that was stopping me all the time was, what if it doesn't work? Like, it's not constant. Like, I knew that I had a lot of clients who just took a free print, so I knew that something had to change in the business so that I could sustain it as a full time, because I couldn't afford just to keep doing the free sessions. Even though it did help me get my name out there, my brand awareness and everything, I had to figure out how to change something and then also have to remove that limiting belief of, oh, my gosh, it's not going to work. What if, you know, I don't get any bookings? Because, as you know, our brain's always trying to protect us. Right. My brain just keeps going, oh, you're not gonna get bookings and then you're gonna be homeless and die in a ditch. That's. That's not gonna happen.

[B]

It is crazy how over the top some of those, like, middle of the night musings can be.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

Because I'm right there with you.

[C]

Yeah, I've got my home, my mortgage, My mortgage is paid off. So it's not true. I'm gonna be homeless. But my brain immediately jumped to that. And so I had to really work on those actual mindsets. And there was a lot of money blockers too, in terms of not saying, not accepting clients who might not be the right fit, because I was basically saying yes to everyone. Um, right. And those clients who, you know, just wanted discounts or wanted, you know, some extra photos, I kind of kept giving into that, but I had to really change my mindset around that. And then, you know, at the end of 2021, 2021, I thought, you know, I just can't do this anymore. In terms of the, you know, balancing the two, um, I was struggling to try and balance the full time job because we also had to go back to the office, you know, more days during the week. In 2022, I, every time I go to work, I couldn't concentrate. I just wanted to be at home. And I, Yep. I think I felt like, tried to make excuses to go, oh, I'm not feeling well today. And then I'll be like, oh, I think better work from home today. So. Right. And I just thought, you know what, I just needed to do it. And I think one of the things that really triggered me was I, I was in a sort of temporary contract role and I was supposed to go back to my other, other job because the way government is, you can do transfers to different departments. And my other boss in the other department asked me because I was supposed to come back that June. So this is 2022, supposed to come back in June. And this was around January or February. And he's like, are you coming back? And I was like, I'm not sure yet, because, you know, I was thinking, oh, you know, this is probably a thing that I really want to do. But I think one thing he said really triggered me because he was not a, a very nice manager. And he told me, well, if you're coming back, you gotta pull your big girl pants up. And I was like, yeah, okay, no, I'm not coming back. And I just immediately made that decision. I was like, I'm not coming back. And yeah. And like, what do you mean? I was like, well, I'm not coming back. I had long service leave, thankfully, because being a planner with business analysts, financial management, I had three months of long service leave, which means in Australia if you've worked in the government for over 10 years, you get three months full paid long service leave. And I also had a month of annual leave. So I said, I'm not coming back, but I want to take that long service leave and annual leave. Instead of getting it paid out as a lump sum, I said, can I take it as paid leave and then I will resign at the end of the year. So I negotiated that, had that as I guess my fallback plan. I thought, you know what, I'm going to do it, I'm going to quit and I'm going to quit the other job because I just couldn't concentrate. I still had about, I think four months left in the other job. But I told them, yeah, you know what, I'm quitting. So I told them in February or In January, I'm quitting. I had to do four weeks notice. That's fine. That those four weeks were the last four hard four weeks that I had to do because I could not concentrate. But I thought I had, I had, you know, four months sort of leeway. And I operated those four months even though I was getting full paid salary sales for my government job, I did it as if I wasn't getting any money. So I operated first. Money I just put aside somewhere else. So I didn't see it. And I just operated as if I wasn't getting any other money and that I was doing my photography business full time and see that I could do it in those three months. Go, oh my gosh, it's possible. Why didn't I do this sooner? Because my brain stopped me, that fear stopped me from doing it. But that's.

[B]

There is a reason that our brains stop us from jumping off every cliff that we walk by. Right. We are hardwired to protect ourselves, to protect the sort of, to keep ourselves feeling safe and, and that serves us very well in many situations. But I, I do find that when you're in a situation where it's like you have to make that leap, it's almost like we force a scenario or a person or something else. We put ourselves in the path of someone who might give us the shove so that we know somewhere we want and we need. And it sounds like, yeah, you let your jerk boss be the.

[C]

Yeah, I think I let that want.

[B]

To give you that permission.

[C]

Yeah. Even though I knew that I could, I could have done it, it's just I had to. Something in that triggered in me and I was like, I don't want to ever work for people like that again. And it's been the best thing because, I mean, yes, there are, there are hard times where, you know, business is hard. Like running a business is not easy. But I think my background in the finance and business analyst has given me the knowledge and skills to be able to get around any problems I, you know, encounter. And I think because I'm, I'm so. I guess I'm not organized organized, but I do like to plan ahead and so I need to make sure that, you know, I, I ran the profit first method, so I do that so that I have, you know, money set aside for expenses, for cost of goods, for paying myself. And that was one of the things is paying myself was really important because yes, the business was making money, but I need to be able to pay myself so I can pay my bills. Yeah, and then having systems and processes in place in my business to allow me to grow was also important. So having the CRM, the automation. And I also hired a VA before I was even ready because that was one of the things that I struggled with, was having to do social media and balancing all that. And I hired a VA in 2020, I think at the end of 2021.

[B]

So before you quit your job, which I feel like is so antithetical to so many people, and I definitely wanted to, to ask you more about this. I think a lot of people feel like, oh, if I'm not making enough money to pay myself what I want to make, how could I possibly justify paying someone else? But especially when your, your time is so stretched and you're trying to do all these different things, it's just not like there just aren't enough hours in the day.

[C]

Exactly. And that's why I thought, you know what, I, I was just struggling with that, you know, the work. And I thought, well, again, the mindset, the fear, like, how am I going to pay for this if I'm not, you know, even making enough money? But I thought, you know what, I worked out, sorry, I did hire through an agency and that was actually quite more expensive as well. And I thought, oh, this is going to be, you know, challenging. But I thought, okay, there's a minimum hours and I need to make this much money. If I can't make it from the business, I know I can top it up from my salary because I still had a full time job back then. Right. So I thought, you know what, let's try it. And they said, you know, I can cancel after a month, why not? I just thought, you know what, why not? I'll, I'll just do that and see how it goes. And then I can always cancel if I need to.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Yeah, so. And I think I took that leap. And you know what, that was the best decision because then the social media stuff, I didn't have to like worry about that so much. Obviously I had to train the person. The agency did a lot of the onboarding stuff, which I didn't, you know, I guess know how to do at the time because I've never hired anyone before in terms of, you know, my business, myself. Yeah, I had to really work out going, okay, how, what do I need her to do? And I had a call with them. This is, you know, what I asked her and I kind of just molded the role and, you know, worked out what I needed to give her. And eventually we kind of Got a routine together and then I started building sort of, you know, recording stuff that I wanted done. And. Yeah, and it just went from there. So that was. I think I hired her in November 2021 or December 2021. Yeah. And before. Before I quit. Really? And.

[B]

And is that the same person that you're working with?

[C]

No, actually I hired another person in maybe a year later, in 2023, a year and a bit later, because this person was from the agency. I was paying quite a lot more. So she was in the Philippines, but I was paying around 20 to $23 Australian an hour, which is probably be more like. I know, 15 US dollars. Sure. Yeah. So it was quite a bit. And then I actually came across Sarah Monica from. She's a photographer in Canada, I believe. I think I had her on a podcast again, everything from my business, they're all podcast connected. Yeah. Podcast I've had. And the thing is, actually I find that I process things better or like orally and like. And I just listened to it while I was in the car because that's pretty much driving to work, going home to work, going to places. I just listened to it. I just kept listening. And again, every time I finished listening, I got out of the car, go, okay. I got those things and I note it all down and. And I was like, okay, I got to put this in place. So he did the whole thing on, I think Nicole podcast, which was Hair of the Dog and now Freedom Focus Formula. And I did her workshop on outsourcing. I think it was like 30, 40 million dollars. And again, I put in place what I learned from that workshop, as I do with, you know, a lot of things that I signed up to. And I signed. I signed up to a lot of courses and education. And I think that's something that have been really beneficial that I invested early on myself. And I think, yeah, that has helped. So after I did that, I fired the other VA, I let go of the other VA and I hired another VA. And now she's been working with me since. Yeah. May 23rd. And that I think I paid 10 US now. And even though because I hired her myself, I had to basically do all the onboarding myself. And so.

[B]

Right.

[C]

I knew working with a VA already I recorded a lot of stuff on Loom, how I do my social media, how I do even my admin as well. The admin stuff was one of the things I really struggled to let go of. But I'm glad I did because now it's just so much better. I can Focus more on the revenue generating tasks, which is a marketing. Right. So yeah. Another.

[B]

Yeah. When it comes to VAs, I mean this is a whole separate conversation for sure unto itself. The. I have done a handful of things in terms of like going through an agency. A VA was the very first hire that I ever did and it is, it is challenging for you know, most of us have never hired anybody or trained anybody before and we run our businesses and we're like, I don't know, I just run it the way I run it. Can't you just do that or, or the worst thing is that, you know, a lot of people will hire a VA when they are completely overwhelmed and then that is just destined to fail.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

So agencies can be really good when they come with some like built in. It's almost like training wheels where they're learning, but you're also learning how to like manage someone. And. But I do find that that premium that you paid often gets old pretty fast once you get the hang of things and you can find your own person who's sort of stable. I've had my VA now for a couple of years and she's wonderful and like we have a great communication system but I never would have been able to. I just wasn't in a police. I didn't know enough to, to be that boss when I was newer in my business.

[C]

Same here. And that's the thing as well. Those stuff that I've like I'm applying now in my business. It's the stuff that I've learned from Sarah Monica and I just implemented that and now I record every new things that I do, every new processes that I do. I record it on loom just in case. And yeah, I've created the whole standard operating procedures. I've got like, I'm a bit nerdy. I've got, you know, workflows and processes and my brand style guide. It's all in one document in ClickUp which I use as a project management tool. And so if I just onboard anyone I can just go, go to this space. Here are the videos. I've just hired my third va. Ah, very good. Yeah. And you know, she just went in straight into work. There wasn't much training because I already had the videos recorded there and she just went straight into it for editing specifically. And that was again another thing hard to let go of is editing because as photographers we want to be creative. But I have found that I'm the bottleneck because this year I've just had so much client orders and Then I've had to travel, running workshops around Australia for Sony and all the other stuff.

[B]

Oh, all the other stuff. And you've gotten into the education space and you're doing, you have a podcast now. I mean, it's, you're doing all the things. And I'm excited to invite people to get out and like, check out all of those things because I feel like this conversation, I'm looking at the time and I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like we've just scratched the surf. But I do want to kind of bring it up to date and talk a little bit about your, specifically your pet photography business and from when you left your job to now, how that has grown and how you've managed to. First of all, I mean, you were doing what most people would consider to be a full time pet photography business. You were running that when you were still working full time. And then you quit your full time job and grew the business that much more. But then you still somehow found time to do all these other things. And I would just love to hear a little bit of that journey, where your business stands now and, and some of your best tips for how to keep creating that space. I feel like you've got secrets to share. I don't know, it's a pretty incredible.

[C]

I think my brain just does. I don't know. Everyone goes, you're so crazy. You did so many things. And I was like, but you know, like on Sunday, I didn't do anything that day. Yesterday I had most of the day off. Sundays and Mondays are my days off. And so I was like, well, there are times where I'm just not doing anything. And I think everyone thinks I'm working 24 hours. I mean, a lot of the time I, I love it. That's why I do it, because I love it. It's. It doesn't feel like work. But I'm looking at my numbers. So when in that 2021. So this is calendar year, I ended up with 40,000, 2022, which is when I quit. So I quit in February and that went up to 90,000. Australia. This is Australian dollars, by the way. And then in 2023, from 90,000, it went to 190,000. Wow. And then last year it was 240,000. All pet photography, all pet photography. Well, I think there might be like a few things that, like commercial that was on, but maybe that was one or two. But pretty much all pet photography. And then I've also reduced the number of bookings, like a number of clients as well. So I went from like, you know, a hundred. I think I had 100 something, 140 sessions in 2022 and then 134 in 2023. And then last year I think it was a hundred sessions.

[B]

So reducing volume but increasing profitability.

[C]

Correct. And increasing the average sale. And those are just little tweaks I made, for example. And of course this might not work for everyone. And you know, some people go, that takes a lot of time. I started introducing in person consultation in probably in the middle of 2022 and that, you know, that boosted my average sale from $600 to now it's $3,000.

[A]

Right.

[C]

So I find that it's been working for me because I like connecting with people, I love talking to people in person and I've just made it the norm. So when people are going, this is the normal thing is to book in an in person consult if they're not from Canberra, from where I am, and if they live over two hours away, they can always ask to book in a phone consult or zoom consult. But I've had clients who actually came in, they're like, oh yeah, we live about two and a half hours away. And I was like, why didn't you tell me? They're like, no, no, you wanted to come. I was like, okay.

[B]

And I feel like in person sales is one of those things where does not work for everyone for a variety of reasons. Some of them are, you know, the people themselves, some of them are the clients or the time and all the different constraints. But for the people that it does work for, it works great. Like you can make it part of the experience, you can make it part of what attracts people to you. So that's amazing. And obviously it's working for you and you know, it's.

[C]

And you know what, I'm experimenting this year to see whether I'll try zoom consultations again and see whether that's going to change my, you know, average sales. I track everything. I track my numbers, my business analyst mindset and finance. Everything needs to like, I need to know whether it's working or not and I need to see the numbers to see if it's working or not. So that's why I have to track the numbers. And I think it's important to know the numbers and I think that's probably has been a part of the success in my business is that yeah, I'm all about the numbers. I'm all about tracking metrics. You know, when I do Facebook ads, you know, I just don't do Facebook ads willy nilly. I need to check to see whether.

[B]

It works, what's working.

[C]

Yeah. And you know, and a lot of people say, oh, Facebook ads doesn't work. I was like, well, it doesn't work sometimes, but at times it works and I'm going to work out. Well, how come this campaign work and this campaign didn't? You know, for example, last year I did International Dog Day. Not, I didn't do one this year because I was focusing on other projects. But last year I needed leads for International Dog Day. So I ran a competition, a major competition with prizes from other businesses. And then, you know, the main one would be a wall art and a session for me posted on social media. Didn't get much traction. I thought, all right, I need to do Facebook ad. So I did a late ads and I think over, I don't know, maybe a month and a half. A month. Maybe a month. I spent 400. I got 74 leads. I booked eight. Wow. Yeah, I booked 18 of those, I think. Yeah, 18. And I made about 38,000.

[B]

Okay, I'm just gonna put a disclaimer on that and say that these results may not reflect actual results.

[A]

The normal.

[C]

Exactly, exactly.

[B]

Those are, those are insane numbers. That is incredible. Congratulations. But it does sometimes happen and it, when it does, it's always a result.

[A]

Of the weirdest stuff.

[B]

I mean like it is, it is always kind of blows my mind. I am a big believer when it comes to running your own business that it's not this binary success and failure. It's like, well, this didn't work. So I'm going to change, I'm going to iterate, I'm going to tweak, I'm going to revisit what went wrong and then I'm going to learn from that and like push it in the next.

[C]

Exactly.

[B]

You know, the next go.

[C]

And I think amazing. It's also tweaking, not tweaking everything, but tweaking a couple of things so that you can track did those changes actually the scientific method because otherwise if you change everything and then you're going it's still not working well or it's working. Which change help that to work. And I mean this ad was literally simply the. I, you've seen my photos and you know when people see dog photos, it's like, it's beautiful. The ad that work wasn't the photos. The ad that actually generated more leads was literally a yellow background with a red text. That's it. Oh, wow. Just saying yeah.

[B]

Isn't that wild?

[C]

Calling camera dog parent. Yeah. Registered to win for this competition. Like fifteen hundred dollars. And that was it. That was just a text that was like, I had to turn off the other ad because the other ad wasn't generating any leads. And it was.

[B]

We're always looking to stop the scroll.

[C]

Exactly. So just tweaking different things and testing. So, yeah, yeah, it's. It's. It has been a journey. There's. There's definitely been hard times. So, you know, it's not like everything has worked all the time for me. There's been challenges, for sure. There's been times where I've had no bookings, and then I start spiraling. But I think that, yeah, that determination, like, I really want to go back to a job, so I need to do something. And so I put things into action, and it just keeps growing. And I think having that mindset and belief is really important because I find when I start spiraling into negative thinking, that's when my business starts kind of sinking. Yeah.

[B]

Well, over the course of this conversation, as I said, I feel like you have dropped so many very juicy leads that I'm like, oh, I want to go down that path. I want to go down that path. I want to talk about this. So we'll just have to have you back some other time. But what I'm sort of noticing is two major things, and one is that willingness to bet on yourself but also follow through. So, you know, whether it was that initial investment in a business coach and then a VA, making sure that you were like, well, if I'm going to hire a VA and I'm going to spend all this money, I better make sure that I'm getting every, you know, minute of that time that I'm paying for has to be worth it. And if I'm going to spend this. All this money, invest all this money in this coaching, whatever it is that they are coaching me to do, I'm going to follow through and try and.

[A]

You know, make sure I do all the things.

[B]

And then when you left your job, first of all, putting yourself in a position, you know, setting yourself up for success so you weren't, like, teetering on the brink of being broke, which puts undue pressure on anyone, and instead giving yourself that pad, giving yourself that security, but also the motivation to, like, dive right in and really, like, swim hard, and then that you have just continued to do that, continued to be, you know, seeking out education opportunities and all of that, and how much that has.

[A]

Compounded in such A short period of time.

[B]

As I said at the beginning, it really is super inspirational.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

And I know that people who are listening are going to be like, wait, you said she has a podcast. Tell me where this podcast is. And I think you also have a freebie that you were going to share, right?

[C]

I do, I do. So the podcast is called the Pet Photographer's Journal. The target audience is pet photographers, but really any portrait photographers can really get any takeaways from it because really it's just a subject that's different. The whole concept is the same. Photographing pets is the same as photographing people. It's just that it's a different target audience. But the concept model, it's the same. So I think there can be lots of takeaways from this podcast that people can take even if they're not a pet photographer. And I do some solo episodes, I have some guest interviews. I've got a life coaching call that I did with someone, a pet photographer in Australia. And basically, I don't know, you know, I guess the issue until we go live and we tackle the challenges as we go live, which is really scary for me because I was like, well, what if I can't answer it? But you know what? Sure. I know that I can work things out. And even if I can't provide an exact solution, I know that we'll work towards something on the call. And so that's up. That's going to be up soon as well. And I'm still taking applications for like live coaching call on the podcast if you're brave enough to go on there.

[B]

I love that.

[C]

And yeah, the freebie is just basically like a little 15 minute plan that you can do every week to boost your marketing. I think the thing is in my business that has been successful is doing the marketing and having different marketing campaigns throughout the year, both active and passive, and actually be really consistent in implementing that. And I think that's probably the struggles of everyone. What I hear most is I haven't got enough clients, I don't get consistent bookings. And I think that was my worry as well. When I jump into this whole time is not having consistent bookings. And because I implemented, you know, there's different pieces of it, but I have a 12 month marketing calendar that I implement. Like just spending 15 to 30 minutes each week on it is going to help you in the long term. So this is just like a little short mini guide and if you put it in place and implement a couple of things from it, you'd be able to get, you know, an extra one or two clients a month.

[B]

Amazing. Well, Ina, this has been a pleasure. Thank you so much. I will put links to everything in the show notes, but as I said, we will have to have you back on again to dive down one of these many, many kind of open loops that we opened here this week. But thank you so much.

[C]

That sounds good. Thank you so much for having me.

[A]

That's it for this week's episode of this can't be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out thiscan'tbethard.com to explore all the resources we have for photographers.

[B]

And of course, it would mean the.

[A]

World to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.