A (3:13)

Austin is such from a small town.

B (3:15)

Of 3,000 to this, so.

A (3:17)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Oh, yeah, that is a big jump. Austin is a fun city, though. I was there about a year ago and went to Austin City Limits and had just the best time. So much good food, great music, obviously. So I mentioned to you as we, before we started recording, I realized, I don't know, a month ago, as we were kind of finalizing our plans for the podcast for the remainder of the year, that I had one spot that somehow had not been spoken for. So we had one episode that we needed to plan, and it was scheduled to be an. An interview. So I went through our long and always getting longer list of, you know, pitches, like ideas that people sent in about different topics, and there are dozens of them at any given time. So if you are out there listening and you have submitted a. An idea for the podcast and we haven't gotten back to you, it's not because we're not interested, it's just because we a lot. And. And it always takes a minute to get to them all, but. But as I went through them, literally your pitch surfaced as the one that I was like, yes, I want to have this conversation. This sounds like a ton of fun. So although I always say I am excited to. To have this chat, today I really was like, ooh, yay, it's almost time. Let's sit down and have this conversation. Because as much as I have mentioned on here and everywhere else that I really am super into AI at this point. Not because I want to stop working, not because I don't think that there are potential and real problems with AI, but because I also see the flip side. I also see the potential that AI has for good and the way that we can use it to leverage the creativity that we have as creatives and just make it go that much further. And your idea, and you're the sort of we'll get into the nitty gritty, but some of the ways that you're using AI in your photography business were so interesting and so fun and so creative that I just wanted to make sure that everybody out there listening got to be inspired by you, like I was. So I guess let's back up and start out by talking a little bit about your own journey with AI. Like when did you first kind of hear about ChatGPT or you know, whatever tools you're using and how did you use them? In the beginning I found out about.

B (5:45)

AI, I think it was like around Christmas or so, maybe a year or two ago. And I didn't really like look into it right away. I think it was like January of the following year when I was like, you know, things are slow and people aren't booking as much that I finally decided to kind of like check it out. And other people have been talking about it. Course it was in the news a lot. I didn't really know how to use it at first and I think that everybody starts in that same place. You know, we all think, oh, it's going to like, you know, solve all of my problems and write everything for me. And sure it can definitely help. But from what I have picked up now, it's definitely a trash in, trash out experience. And although it is getting better, definitely what you put in feeds into what you're going to get out. And so yeah, that was kind of my first learning experience. I played around with it. I know I used it to write like some old blog posts that I was like I definitely would cringe at today.

A (6:41)

Right.

B (6:42)

Based on what I put into it. But having said that, I think that it has become such a fun tool to use to create more connection between you and your potential client or your current client or the ones that are coming back to you every year. So yeah, yeah.

A (7:00)

So when did you first use AI or you know, start incorporating AI into your client experience? Tell me a little bit about that.

B (7:11)

Well, it kind of happened, I think from my own needs, more than even my clients needs. I think I started creating things for myself and of course I thought, oh, maybe other people would like this or be able to use it. So I think it even might have started with the cleaning list I mentioned. So I beginning of the year, you know, everybody gets in that zone of like, we're gonna clean our house and start fresh this whole new new year. And I created a cleaning schedule and that way I could like stay on track of every little thing that I needed to do. And I sent it out to my email list and had some people download it and say, you know, reply back and say, thank you so much for this. This is actually helpful. And then I thought, oh, like, people want some of the same things that I want. And I mean, I granted, I think those were more of my family clients that that replied and liked that specific one, but I have found since then other ways to use it for all of my different kinds of brands and clients for them.

A (8:08)

Obviously I, you know, host the Consistency Club, which is monthly marketing materials. And one of our main things is email marketing. And I talk all the time about how, you know, your emails need to be about more than just selling. They need to create connection. They need to give people a reason to open your email. And we try and train photographers on how to think that way. But this is the perfect example of that where it's like you were doing something that was, you know, helpful to you. You're, you know, hey, Chat GPT, my house is a mess. I need to like, get on a schedule here, help me develop a schedule that I can stick to. I have no idea obviously what your prompt was, but like, I have about 30 minutes a day. You know, give me like a, a month of activities that I can get accomplished. And by the end of the month I want my house to be like, deep cleaned and perfect. So most of us would just stop there. Like, we would create. Have Chat GPT help us create that tool. Print it out, put it on the wall, you know, do our thing, go about our business. I love that you took it the next step and thought like, oh, hey, this is the perfect kind of a connection with some subset of my reading audience that where this is going to give them value. It gives us something to kind of talk about and have in common. Maybe somebody has a better tool out there and they'll hit reply and say, oh, you know, you need this. But whatever it is, it pulls people out of the. I am getting this email from a photographer who's trying to sell me photography, that mindset and puts them in the mindset of, oh, my friend Jessica's in my inbox with another good idea that she has. Like, she and I have so much in common. Which, you know, may feel in the.

B (9:53)

Short, definitely dirty houses.

A (9:54)

Yeah, I also have many clients that could definitely relate to that. But when it does come time for them to hire a photographer, they just feel like, you get them, they get you, you guys are on the same plane. And that's where people become way less sensitive to Price Point and all those kinds of things. So sorry, that was a like sidebar tangent. But I Just I love how perfect that illustration is of, you know, using AI kind of in an outside the box way.

B (10:21)

Yeah, I have really dove deep into this now. So as far as families go, I'm going to stay on that route for a second. And I created kind of a game out of toys, I guess you could say. So, for example, over the summer. And rats at the beginning, because I was kind of stressing about summer. You know, we all go into this idea, especially when you have little kids at home where what are you going to do all summer long? And if you're not in a camp or multiple camps or whatever, like, you know, unless you're just going to, like, let them veg out and stare at the TV all day, which nobody wants to do, because the end of the day would be awful. You have to come up with something and if, you know, your level involvement and all this kind of stuff plays into that. But regardless of that, I went into my son's room, I looked around at all of his toys because the kids got a lot of toys. And I took a list, I just made a list of all of his toys. I put it into chat and I said, help me create, like, ideas for things we can do with his toys that are not the basic idea of how you play with this toy. It started, of course, giving me some stuff right away, and I had to refine that prompt over time because again, I was doing this for myself at first. And from there I pushed it further and was like, oh, there's enough categories of things here. Like, what if I color coded them and we already had, like, a spinner toy from another game and then he could spin this and land on a certain color, pick the card and have an activity to do. Now, granted, he wasn't as crazy about all the activities as I was, and I did build in some learning ones that I think he was like, you know, but I see what you're doing, Mom. Yeah, like, oh, you want me to read to my stuffed animals? I'm not sure if I really want to do that.

A (12:18)

Right.

B (12:19)

Anyway, all that to say that after I created this whole list and went through all the trouble of making this game, I was like, oh, my families would probably love this too. And they really did. They really responded well to that. And several people downloaded the files and told me about their experiences over the summer of some of the games they liked or didn't like. But mostly I think they just like the idea of, oh, like, maybe ChatGPT could give us some creative ideas for different ways to Play with toys that we already have and don't have to go and buy something different. But we'll keep my kid off their screen or at least entertain for, you know, an hour of the day.

A (12:57)

Yeah. And you know, it's like I almost have a knee jerk reaction to that sort of a use where I'm like, ah, we need to, you know, our creative brains are able to come up with these ideas and like, we don't want to outsource all of that to ChatGPT. But I also feel like we have so many, I don't know, asks I guess is the word that I'm looking for on our brain power and our creativity and our time. And I think that especially when it comes to like mommy, mommy, play with me. And you're like, okay, great. I like, my brain is in a million places. Whatever. It's almost like you're not using that to be a replacement for your imagination or your kids imagination. You are using it to kind of get you into that headspace to like jar you out of your normal way of thinking and give you something new. You and your child or children or whatever. Something new, a new way to think about something. And then you get to see where it leads. And it's kind of like when you're posing a family or you know, anything else, sometimes the pose that you set up isn't the one that ends up being the thing. It's like you put somebody in a, in a scenario and then you like let it wiggle itself out and that's where the magic is. So I feel like this could have the same effect. Are there, were there games or like suggestions that you got out of this that stand out in your mind as the best ones?

B (14:29)

The best ones, I think his favorite ones ended up being more movement based. And so we have like these like, I don't know, I think they're like plastic stepping stones, but they're all different colors which also correlated with the spinning thing. So we were able to play into that. But I think the ones where he was like creating like, you know, he had to go save his stuffy from the monster or whatever it was. And using those to get to places or just anything movement related for him is kind of a bigger thing. But on another note, a lot of times he would spin it, we would read the card and he might start doing it, but then the game would adapt to him and just like what you're saying, he would change it into something that he really liked. And then he, some days he would literally be in his room playing with toys for like two hours or more. And I was like, this is some sort of magic trick that I did and I don't even know exactly, you know, how I did it. And I mean, believe me, not every day was like that. There were days he was on his screen and you know, playing video games and stuff. But any day that, that I felt like that was working, I felt like a super mom, you know, like, oh, I did it today. But yeah, I, I think the movement based ones for him for sure.

A (15:42)

Hang on guys, I have a quick message for you. Let's take a minute to talk about marketing. If you need more clients or you need better clients, or if you just struggle to keep up with the marketing that you're already doing, I want you to check out the Consistency Club. This isn't just another course to watch. It's not a workbook to fill out. Each month our club members get a done for you marketing plan with email and social templates that take the guesswork out of nurturing your current clients and connecting with new ones. So instead of staring at a blank screen wondering what on earth you're supposed to say or do, you'll have practical tools that help you get your marketing done in a fraction of the time. We've also just launched our new AI powered blog builder tool Inside the membership, which is blowing everyone's minds. Whether you've never touched AI, have been disappointed by the generic robotic sounding copy that you've gotten in the past, or have a custom GPT trained up to actually do a pretty good job for you, I would love to show you what this blog builder is capable of. And now is the time to give it a go because along with some exciting new features, our prices are going to be increasing in the new year. Go to thiscan't bethard.comclub to try it out for a month. You've got nothing to lose and a whole lot of new booked clients to gain. Amazing. Well, what you're saying is reminding me. I have a friend from when I lived in New York a million years ago named Clark Huggins who is an illustrator and he developed a thing called the Reckless Deck that he started selling many years ago. This is obviously before AI, but it was like a deck of cards and illustrators would buy this deck of cards and it was like there were three different area like sections of the deck that were in different colors and you would pick one from each color and it was like you would get a character, a weapon and a scene or something and it Was like you had to combine those three things into a single illustration. This was like comic book type illustrations. And he got a ton of traction on that deck. I think he sold a whole bunch of them because even the most creative of us do need that, like, outside thing to shake it up. And although the idea of a deck is super cool, you know, take that and multiply. Instead of 52 cards, you've got essentially unlimited cards, unlimited variables that can be configured in different ways. So whether you're using it for games with your kid or, like, you're engaged in different date ideas in your town or whatever, it. I think it's a fun way to kind of shake things up a little bit.

B (18:27)

Yeah. I mean, I know this conversation is about AI, but I think in reality it's just about different ways to connect with different people, and we're not all the same. So what you have to put in and the variables you have are going to be different than everybody's other output. So, yeah, I think that's the key takeaway for that part of it. Yeah, I think for him, he was overjoyed to just have these ideas. I could see his brain sparking when we would read these different ideas. So.

A (18:55)

And it's, you know, my mom put in the time and effort to. To do this. On some level, that was what he was thinking. He may not have been thinking it in so many words. Okay, so now I want you to tell me and tell everybody about the idea that really hooked me when I was looking at the submission that you had put in for the podcast having to do with your senior clients and the work that you do with them.

B (19:19)

Yes. I love my seniors. They are the ones that, I guess, niche down to. Sure. For lack of a better way of saying it. So they're the ones that I love to focus on. And I think the thing we hear from seniors, especially today and maybe for a few years now, but for most of the time, it's, you know, they don't want to be cringy. They don't want to be posed so much. They want, from what I am getting, at least more of a cinematic feel to their photos. They don't want it to feel, you know, awkward.

A (19:52)

Sure.

B (19:52)

And I think when it comes to that, when you think about it, and I've heard other people talk about it too, when you're not moving around as much, you're very much in your head. Like, every little thing that someone tells you to do on a pose kind of sticks with you. And even my daughter has told Me. And so I have learned from her, unfortunately. But she's given great feedback that when I am asking her to do something that it makes her feel like, you know, maybe not as good about herself as far as like a pose goes. And so I've been leaning more into prompts and all that to say movement based prompts are the ones that I like to do the most. There are of course, other ones that aren't, and they're not all for every senior. That's not like constant movement. It's not a workout.

A (20:39)

Right.

B (20:40)

But how I'm using AI for that is. Well, I'm actually in the behind the scenes part of it, building a custom GPT. But before that I was putting in all of this data about my senior saying, I mean, nothing personal, like, you know, not any personal identifying stuff, but I was giving it like their interests. When I send out a client questionnaire, I have a lot of fun questions in there. I want to know their personality like most of us. I might ask some crazy questions though, and I think that's kind of the magic of it too, because you don't always know what they're going to say. It's not always a yes or no. But I want to know things like their favorite movies, their favorite books, music. You know, teens are definitely defining that for themselves. And I think that's part of the identity of, you know, being a teenager is deciding what we like, what we don't like. Right. All that to say that plays into the prompts. So I take all that data and I feed it in and I give it some very specific information about how I want prompts to look and what I want them to feel like. And it gives me back information on how to achieve that. And it tells me specific things of like run through the woods, like, you know, a bear is chasing you. I mean, maybe not that one, but obviously we're not wanting fear. But you know, as an example of a prompt, if you don't know the difference between a prompt and just go stand next to the tree and put your arm on it, that's definitely more of a pose than a prompt. There are so many fun ways to do it. And so now what I'm doing is I get a full list of prompts, like 15 to 20, and I make them personalized for each of my senior clients. And it's dependent on what they like. So like, let's say somebody likes the Twilight movies. Then I'm getting prompts that have like language related to that or themes or moods or colors related to that. And I will print those out, I will cut them out and then at the senior session, like they are picking them out of a jar or a bag or whatever I have. And I think the process, the interactive process of it is what they enjoy the most. I don't even know if it is the prompt as much, but they do appreciate, you know, that it's working in their interests. But I think being part of the creative process is also important, especially when you're having your photo taken.

A (22:58)

Yeah.

B (22:59)

But anyway, yeah, it's been a huge hit. Every senior that I've started doing this with has now become like super excited, obsessed with it and telling me that this is their favorite part. And yeah, I think it is stuck in my system now for a good long while. Years. Yeah.

A (23:16)

I love, love, love this idea and I love so many different things about it. I really feel like you hit the nail on the head. I mean, we all want to be seen, but for teenagers, that is like the number one make it or break it thing. When you, you are working with a teenager, like, you come to the table as an adult already, you know, under suspicion, like, is this person going to get me? Are they going to appreciate me? Are they going to judge me? All the different things. And then when you show up prepared, not only with a series of activities, because to your point, that's really what prompting is as opposed to posing. It is saying, you know, okay, I want you to do this. Which can help so many people who feel stiff and awkward in front of the camera or get in their head. Heads about what I'm looking like. Yeah, me too. It will help them sort of break free of that and just kind of be in the moment, which obviously as photographers, we know people look better when they feel comfortable, but to then take it that next step or to, you know, to that next level and incorporate the interests and, you know, preferences and things like that that they have identified. It is such an ideal use case for, you know. Sure. Could you do that on your own? Yes. Do you have time to do that when you've got, I don't know, how many clients a month? Probably not. Or at least not to the same extent. And it ensures that every single person gets a completely unique experience versus if you've got like, oh, here are my 30 prompts that I always use and you can kind of look and see, oh, this is where we were playing this game or doing this thing. So I think that's super cool. I think obviously you could use it for all kinds of niches outside of seniors. I think it's perfect for seniors. I also you mentioned that you do brand photography. I feel like it could work really, really well for brands, especially when it's a solo, like you're photographing one person. So they have that added layer of I have to just be. It's just me. What do I do with my hands? Like that whole bit. I, I think that that's brilliant. It's such a great thing. So. And to your point, it's got such great kind of viral ability where you've got a senior who had this great experience and they talk to their friends maybe more than anybody else.

B (25:40)

Yeah, I think there's a lot of room in lots of different areas of photography for this and I think that there's only up, you know, for trajectory for that. And so another idea was, I've been working this in. It's not the same as prompting per se, but it is something that I used AI to help me come up with not only a list, but more fun ideas. And it is game ideas like that you can play at your session with kids. And for me, I mean, that's been a huge hit because, I mean, no kid wants to sit there and smile at the camera for however long. Right. You're. The parents are trying their darndest to get them to, you know, do that. And a lot of times they will be, you know, other things involved like tickling and, and just general playfulness. But this gives everybody something to do. And I mean, simple games like we all play probably, but ring around the Rosie, you know, chasing games or running games, but even just having those ready in your back pocket. And I think going into fall season, that is my plan is to have them ready so that hopefully if there's an older kid or maybe a parent, they can draw it out and make it an interactive thing so that they are like, oh, let's do this one. And I mean, if they veto it, they veto it. That's okay too. They can draw another one. We have a movie list here at home and my kids draw for a movie. A lot of times there's like some kickback, you know, and then we're like, okay, you get one redraw. And then that's our movie night. Movie.

A (27:11)

Right, right.

B (27:11)

But that's it.

A (27:13)

That's a, that's a. That's also brilliant. I need to, I need more of you in my life. There's. I'm going to be on your newsletter. The next thing you know, that'll. I'll be your Next subscriber. Because these are all such great ideas. And again, we have limited capacity as parents, as partners, as photographers, as people in the world to constantly be coming up with something new and fun and different, but leveraging this, you know, on demand, essentially free service to help reinvigorate not only your client experience, but also your kind of like, oh, this is different. I'm walking into a session. Certainly anybody who's been in business for any period of time knows that especially when they're in a busier season or anything else, you can start to get into a creative rut and you're doing the same thing over and over again and maybe you're using the same locations over and over again. So adding this element of spice and, you know, you don't exactly know what's coming next can really make it, I imagine so much. It's just a better experience all the way around.

B (28:22)

It is. It's a lot more fun, for sure.

A (28:25)

So what is coming next for you? Do you have any new ideas that you're cooking up with AI or are you just like bracing for. For the busy season in general?

B (28:36)

I think a little bit of everything. My ADHD brain is definitely all over the place. I have a list of ongoing ideas that are, you know, eventually. But I'm trying to hold myself back to just because fall is coming. And as sinister as that sounds, I do enjoy fall.

A (28:55)

I do too.

B (28:56)

But I can't spread myself with my brain too thin or I will be like all over the place. But I do have the custom GPT. I'm working on trying to complete that. And right now, once I finish that, I will make it live to my email list first and let them know I know it's mostly parents. I do have a few photographers and stuff on there. And of course teens, which they might actually enjoy it a lot too. But that will be mostly geared towards seniors. And for senior prompting, I do have the free download and stuff right now, but that will be on the same page soon when it's ready.

A (29:33)

Very cool.

B (29:33)

Otherwise all my ideas are in a list waiting to be, you know, approved.

A (29:40)

On the one day list. Exactly.

B (29:42)

Yes.

A (29:43)

Amazing. Well, tell everyone where they can find you and where they can get this freebie so that they can follow along on this journey and borrow liberally from your creative brain, which I love.

B (29:56)

So to preface this, I just want to say when my business changed, my last name also changed. So now I am@thejessicamartin.com and the V is there because apparently there's a million Jessica's and a lot of people with the last name. Sure. So that's also my Instagram and Tick Tock and all that kind of stuff. And then on my website, if you go to the little search bar, all you have to search is prompts and it will take you straight to the first thing.

A (30:26)

So amazing. And of course, we will put that direct link in the show notes as well.

B (30:30)

Yes.

A (30:31)

Well, Jessica, this has been a pleasure and I am just waiting with bated breath for the onslaught of comments that I know are coming about. Oh my God, that was such a great interview. Thank you so much for, you know, for sharing you. So I'm going to go ahead and just preemptively say thank you so much for reaching out, for sharing your ideas. It's just my favorite thing when our community is kind of out there putting together our limited brain resources so that we can all draw from a bigger pool. It's so great, but it's so great to chat with you as well.

B (31:05)

Yes, it was so great to meet you too. And thank you so much for having me.

A (31:08)

Absolutely. Have a great day. That's it for this week's episode of this Can't Be that Hard. I'll be back same time, same place next week. If you like the show, be sure to check out thiscan'tbethard.com to explore all the resources we have for photography. And of course, it would mean the world to me if you would leave a review of the show on itunes or Spotify. As always, thanks so much for joining me. I hope you have a fantastic week.