Podcast Summary: "Systems over Motivation"

Podcast: This Can't Be That Hard
Episode: 343
Host: Annemie Tonken
Air Date: November 18, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Annemie Tonken delves into the critical role of systems in running a successful photography business. Using a relatable story about her teenage son's struggle with laundry as a metaphor, she unpacks why consistency and reliable systems—not fleeting motivation—are essential for business sustainability, client satisfaction, and personal peace of mind. Annemie offers practical advice and encouragement for photographers at every stage to evaluate, build, and refine their systems to avoid chaos and build profits more easily.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Personal Story—The Laundry Analogy

• 00:00–04:20
  Annemie opens with a story about her son Judah panicking over having no clean clothes for school. Despite being reminded to do laundry, Judah procrastinated, ending in a typical Monday morning scramble.
  • Insight: "This wasn't a laundry issue...It really was a systems issue."
    — Annemie Tonken, 01:46
  • She connects this to business, highlighting how a lack of systems leads to last-minute stress and chaos, not a lack of knowledge or motivation.

The Quote that Drives the Episode

• James Clear's Wisdom (01:56 & 31:06):
  Annemie cites a quote from James Clear’s Atomic Habits:
  "You don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems."
  • She frames the episode around this principle, reinforcing the importance of systems over aspirations.

The Three Essential Business Systems

1. Marketing System

• 09:00–13:40
  • Purpose: Brings new clients into your business.
  • Common Pitfall: Many treat marketing as sporadic social media posts.
    • Quote: "If your marketing strategy is just posting on social media, when you remember to, you will always be on a roller coaster." — Annemie Tonken, 10:27
  • Solution: Build intentional, regular marketing plans that work in the background.
  • Hunting vs. Gardening Analogy:
    • "If you have to go hunting for a client every time you need one... But if you've got a garden that's thoughtfully planted... you're never going to go hungry."
      — Annemie Tonken, 12:09

2. Sales System

• 13:41–17:58
  • Purpose: Converts interested visitors into booked clients.
  • Myth-busting: Sales isn’t about persuasion or being “salesy.”
  • Includes: Booking process, pricing presentation, communication strategies.
    • Quote: "Sales is like laundry. You have to figure it out because not selling is just not going to work." — Annemie Tonken, 17:10

3. Fulfillment System

• 17:59–21:11
  • Purpose: Shapes the client experience from booking to final delivery.
  • Covers: Communication, managing sessions, delivery, collecting feedback.
    • Quote: "The fewer decisions that you have to make on the fly, the better. That's what systems do. They pre-decide things for you." — Annemie Tonken, 20:31

Additional Crucial Systems

1. Retention System

• 21:12–24:25
  • Purpose: Ensures repeat clients and referrals.
  • Example: Annemie’s portrait membership for annual sessions with perks—benefits both customer and business.
    • "That system isn't just good for income, it's also good for energy too." — Annemie Tonken, 23:30

2. Accounting System

• 24:26–26:33
  • Warning: Waiting for tax season to organize finances is a disaster in the making.
  • Recommendation: Profit First by Michael Malitz, regular check-ins to avoid “surprises and make smarter decisions in real time.”
    • Quote: "That is not a system, that is a countdown to a meltdown."
      — Annemie Tonken, 25:00

3. Data Tracking System

• 26:34–30:44
  • Purpose: Measure what's working, spot patterns, minimize guesswork in decisions.
  • Encouragement: Data tracking doesn’t require fancy tools. Start simple—log key metrics weekly.
    • Quote: "If you're not measuring what's working...every decision [is] based on just kind of a gut feeling. And maybe your gut gives you good advice. But I promise you, it is not the best, most accurate way to run a business."
      — Annemie Tonken, 27:56

Common Barriers & Mindset Shifts

• Systems Are for Everyone:
  • Not about being "type A"—systems are for anyone tired of chaos (05:10).
  • "This is not a character flaw. It's a system failure." — Annemie Tonken, 07:10
• Avoiding the ‘I'll Do It Later’ Trap:
  • Procrastination creates “laundry piles” in your business.
    • Challenge: List what systems work and which ones need work, then prioritize improvements (30:45–32:10).

Action Steps and Resources

• Weekly Challenge:
  • Identify the “laundry piles” in your business that you keep avoiding.
  • Make a list of systems to strengthen or build anew.
  • Prioritize and commit to tackling them, especially in slower seasons.
    • Quote: "Just knowing where your blind spots are is really the first step toward fixing them." — Annemie Tonken, 31:13
• Resource Recommendations:
  • Atomic Habits by James Clear
  • Profit First by Michael Malitz
  • Annemie’s own educational resources (Consistency Club, Simple Sales Blueprint, Revenue on Repeat, Photographer’s Business Dashboard).

Notable Quotes

• "You don't rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your systems."
  — James Clear (quoted by Annemie, 01:56 & 31:06)
• "Sales is like laundry. You have to figure it out because not selling is just not going to work."
  — Annemie Tonken, 17:10
• "That is not a system, that is a countdown to a meltdown."
  — Annemie Tonken, 25:00

Key Takeaways

• Motivation is unreliable; systems create consistency and reduce stress.
• Every successful business—no matter the industry—relies on effective systems for marketing, sales, fulfillment, retention, accounting, and data tracking.
• Even simple systems, consistently followed, can revolutionize your work, income, and peace of mind.
• Now is the time to evaluate and build systems to replace chaos with clarity in your business.

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:00–04:20: Personal story & systems introduction
• 09:00–13:40: Marketing system deep dive
• 13:41–17:58: Sales system and mindset
• 17:59–21:11: Fulfillment systems and client experience
• 21:12–24:25: Retention systems and client membership innovation
• 24:26–26:33: Accounting systems
• 26:34–30:44: Data tracking benefits and practical advice
• 30:45–32:10: Challenge & actionable steps

This episode is essential listening for photographers seeking more stability, less stress, and greater profitability. Annemie's supportive, practical approach will resonate with anyone ready to replace “I’ll get to it later” with easy-to-follow, business-changing systems.