Podcast Summary: This Can't Be That Hard – Episode 349: Finding Freedom with Better Sales and Pricing
Host: Annemie Tonken (Guest on Jill Smith’s “The Business Focused Photographer”)
Release Date: December 30, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode is a special cross-post from “The Business Focused Photographer” with host Jill Smith interviewing Annemie Tonken. They dig deep into Annemie’s revolutionary Simple Sales system—a hybrid, client-friendly approach to photography pricing and sales. The discussion explores why so many photographers feel stuck between traditional in-person sales (IPS) or all-inclusive models, and how creative, well-designed business systems can boost profit, sustainability, and personal freedom. The episode is full of actionable insights, concrete analogies, and personal stories, making it valuable for photographers at any stage of their career—especially those facing burnout or a necessary price increase.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Origin and Evolution of Simple Sales
[02:30–10:39]
- Annemie shares her journey from starting her business in 2010 with no experience, learning IPS because it was “the rule” at the time.
- Despite financial success with IPS, her life changed after divorce in 2017: "I couldn't make the math math... The in person sales process can be great, but it is very time consuming." [04:35]
- She found both IPS and all-inclusive models too limiting, especially as a single parent with limited time.
- Draws an analogy to the restaurant world to highlight the lack of “middle ground” in photography pricing: "In photography, if you brought it down to the basics, didn’t really have a middle ground." [06:47]
- Reverse-engineered the IPS process using online galleries, email, and personalized videos, automating much of the customer service and sales process.
- The launch of Simple Sales was a “Hail Mary pass” that increased her income by 30%—"by the end of that year, I was up by 30% financially. But more importantly, I had cut my work time by half." [09:19]
- Online gallery platform Pic-Time noticed her success and reached out wanting to platformize the approach.
2. The IPS vs. All-Inclusive Dichotomy
[10:54–14:52]
- Jill recounts industry pressures: "If you have been in business...you were also subjected to the education that said it was IPS or bust, right?" [11:04]
- Both admit to feeling shame or guilt about not doing IPS the “right” way.
- Annemie emphasizes that business success in photography requires creativity and confidence as much as technical skill, echoing: “You're probably a fine photographer. So...normally what you need to do is improve the business part.” [12:06]
3. Bridging the Pricing Gap Gracefully
[14:53–17:03]
- Jill’s journey: Used Simple Sales as an “in-between” to raise prices when moving from all-inclusive—a comfortable and data-driven method.
- Simple Sales gave her price and sales data to confidently set higher all-inclusive rates, validating that higher prices were attainable.
4. The Role of Confidence & Creativity in Business
[17:04–22:05]
- Annemie’s core teaching: “Confidence and creativity are key to the whole shebang.” [17:05]
- Stresses redefining creativity to include business models, not just artistry.
- "Business has really become the thing...I almost get more excited about the creative opportunities within business than I do with my camera." [18:07]
- Building a sustainable business allows you to continue delivering quality art over many years.
5. The Power and Simplicity of Memberships (Revenue On Repeat)
[25:13–36:22]
- Annemie describes how an unexpected medical setback spurred her to invent and offer portrait memberships—predictable, recurring client relationships that stabilize income.
- "If you can get somebody to sign up to pay you regularly at even a low rate, versus every once in a while...you will, over time, see a much higher return." [27:34]
- Simple Sales + Revenue on Repeat: Initial client enters through Simple Sales, then is offered membership for an ongoing relationship and predictable payments.
- Membership accounts for “60 to 70% of my annual income before the beginning of the year” [34:40]—less pressure, more exclusivity, fewer new bookings needed.
6. Adaptability Across Genres and Life Stages
[36:23–41:28]
- The membership model isn’t just for family photographers: Annemie and Jill recommend for newborn, brand, and pet photographers.
- "If you don't make this the easiest thing for them to check off their list, it is going to fall to the wayside. And it's not because of your prices." [33:31]
- Predictable, pre-scheduled, and automated payments means less sales pressure, easier workflow, and greater client retention.
7. Membership vs. Payment Plans
[38:12–41:28]
- Annemie explains the distinction: memberships are ongoing, with the presumption of continued future service and payments, unlike baby plans/payment plans that are finite.
- Making it easy and frictionless for clients is vital—especially for parents.
8. Psychological & Artistic Barriers to Pricing
[13:34–22:05]
- Both discuss the emotional labor of pricing as photographers and artists, who often lack sales or business training.
- Jill notes: "There's a whole lot that's tied up emotionally for us as photographers in pricing and raising our prices." [15:54]
- Both advocate for building the business-side “creative muscles” to survive and thrive.
9. Return on Investment for Education & Systems
[43:39–48:00]
- Jill: “This is me getting really excited...this is a zero risk way” to bridge the income gap after a price increase.
- Annemie: “I price from a position of a lot of confidence...if this seems like a good system for you and you're ready to put in the work...you're going to make that back in very short order.” [45:26]
Memorable Quotes
On finding a middle way:
"In photography, if you brought it down to the basics, didn’t really have a middle ground."
— Annemie Tonken [06:47]
On sustainability and freedom:
“About a year later...my online gallery software reached out to me...what is it that you’re doing to get them to purchase this many prints and products online...a year later I started teaching it.”
— Annemie Tonken [10:00]
On creativity applied to business:
"Business has really become the thing...I almost get more excited about the creative opportunities within business than I do with my camera."
— Annemie Tonken [18:07]
On the “membership” model:
"I have about 60 to 70% of my annual income accounted for before the beginning of the year."
— Annemie Tonken [34:40]
On confidence:
“Finding confidence allows the people out there who you serve to be confident in paying higher prices.”
— Annemie Tonken [19:38]
On accessibility:
"If you don't make this the easiest thing for them to check off their list, it is going to fall to the wayside. And it's not because of your prices."
— Jill Smith [33:31]
On investing in business education:
“I always have guarantees...there's also the I price from a position of a lot of confidence at this point that if you, if this seems like a good system for you and you're ready to put in the work...I know that you're going to make that back in very short order.”
— Annemie Tonken [45:26]
Recommended Listening Segments & Timestamps
- Simple Sales system origin and philosophy: [02:48–10:39]
- IPS vs. All-Inclusive, and why neither fit everyone: [10:54–14:52]
- How to transition prices and models safely: [14:53–17:03]
- Confidence, creativity, and long-term business survival: [17:04–22:05]
- Building recurring revenue with memberships: [25:13–36:22]
- Adapting membership models for different genres: [36:23–41:28]
- The emotional and psychological side of pricing: [13:34–22:05]
- ROI of implementing Simple Sales and investing in education: [43:39–48:00]
Final Takeaways
- The right pricing and sales system not only increases income but also provides freedom and sustainability.
- There’s no “one size fits all”—creativity applies as much to business systems as it does to photography itself.
- Building confidence, trusting your value, and designing systems for ease (for both you and your clients) leads to lasting success.
- The membership model is practical, profitable, and adaptable to many photography genres.
- Education that pays for itself with your first client is a low-risk, high-return investment for business-minded creatives.
Resource Links:
This episode is a heartfelt encouragement—and blueprint—for photographers ready to stop feeling burnt out and start feeling empowered by their business.