$45k Rivian Could Change Everything! New Porsche Supercar? Montana Plate Crackdown!

Summary

Podcast Summary: THIS CAR POD! with Doug DeMuro & Friends!

Episode: $45k Rivian Could Change Everything! New Porsche Supercar? Montana Plate Crackdown!

Date: March 13, 2026
Host: Doug DeMuro
Co-hosts: Kenan, Filippo
Podcast Description: Weekly expert insight and opinion on breaking automotive stories, the car market, and audience Q&A.

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Overview

This episode covers significant automotive news including potential new Porsche supercars in response to financial troubles, the groundbreaking pricing of the new Rivian R2, the continued trend of large luxury sedans dying in the market, legal crackdowns on Montana car registrations, and lively Q&A and market analysis with Doug and friends. It concludes with vivid recounting of the “rainstorm at Moda,” market trends, and enthusiast car ownership insights.

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1. Porsche’s Financial Troubles & New Supercar Prospects

[01:09–07:55]

Key Points

• Porsche’s profits dropped from $5.9 billion to $90 million in 2025.
  • Doug: “You don’t go broke making a profit...90 million, still 90 million.” [01:22–01:39]
• VW Group (Porsche’s parent) announced plans to cut up to 50,000 jobs by 2030.
• Porsche’s new CEO (ex-McLaren) is considering new models, especially “cars above the current 911”—likely a new hypercar.
• Recent patent filing for a W18 engine sparked speculation, but hosts doubt it’ll happen.
• Discussion about exotic powertrains (Formula 1 for road cars) and Porsche’s unique position: ability to sell both million-dollar supercars and mass-market SUVs.

Memorable Quotes

• Doug on Porsche’s dual nature: “Such a weird brand...they can sell $600k to $2 million cars, and also an SUV with incentive leases. What other company is like that?” [05:22]
• Kenan: “If anybody would [do a manual supercar], it would be Porsche.” [06:28]
• On manuals: “911 ST went out of production yesterday...sold out as an only manual transmission car, used ones selling for double.” – Doug [06:48]

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2. The $45k Rivian R2 – A Gamechanger

[08:08–13:10]

Key Details (Full spec breakdown)

• R2 base: $45,000, RWD, 350hp, 0–60 in 5.9s, 265mi range.
• Standard model: $48,500, 350hp, 345mi range.
• Premium: $54,000, 450hp, 0–60 in 4.6s, 330mi range.
• Performance: $58,000, 650hp, 3.6s, 330mi, AWD.
• All prices pre-destination ($1,500 extra).
• Compared favorably to Toyota Land Cruiser, Model Y, and 4Runner.
  • “54,000 for a 450 horse, 540 lb-ft, 0–60 in 4.6, 330mi of range...checks every box, and it looks like that!” – Doug [09:44]
• Hosts expect R2 will sap R1 sales; visual differentiation minimal.
• Consensus: R2 will lead the segment. Immediate positive “buy” recommendation for anyone looking for a practical EV SUV.
  • “It will quickly go to the top of the list of what you recommend to somebody.” – Filippo [12:49]

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3. Death of Big Luxury Sedans (Audi A8, Others)

[14:05–18:20]

Key Discussion Points

• Audi A8 discontinued, joining Acura RL, Jaguar XJ, Lexus LS.
• S-Class, 7-Series, Genesis G90 remain, but “writing is on the wall” as sedan sales halve from historical peaks.
  • “These are not enthusiast cars–the market segment has moved on.” – Doug [15:39]
• SUVs dominate aspirational luxury buying now.
  • Doug: “You could drive around in this [A8] or a Range Rover. You look like the father of someone with a Range Rover.” [15:58]
• Quick tangent on Panamera and the trick of marketing a hatchback as a luxury sedan.
  • “The Panamera this whole time is a luxury sedan—it’s a hatchback. They snuck it in and nobody knows.” – Doug [17:42]

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4. Montana License Plate Crackdown

[23:37–27:36]

Key Segments

• California (and other states) are legally pursuing residents avoiding local taxes by registering cars in Montana.
  • New requirement: anyone registering out-of-state must submit a driver’s license.
  • $2.3 million in lost sales tax targeted; charges for felony tax evasion levied.
• Other states (Oregon, Delaware, New Hampshire, Alaska) also under scrutiny for tax avoidance schemes.
• Hosts explain appeal/method: Montana allows easy creation of business entities and registration without living there.
• Notable quote: “The benefit of Montana is you can create an LLC incredibly easily. The car never needs to be there.” – Doug [27:06]
• Takeaway: “It’s a problem for other people” – panel all claim they’re legit. [26:22–26:28]

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5. News Bites and Fun Stories

Noteworthy Car News Highlights

• TE37 Wheel Day in Japan (March 7)
  • Hosts’ playful description of the wheel’s cult status.
• Speed Camera Scofflaws in NYC [28:02–31:56]
  • Highlight: Single Audi A6 got 259 school zone tickets ($64,000 in fines) in one year.
  • “Getting 259 school zone speeding camera tickets at some point does become a safety hazard.” – Doug [30:55]
  • US vs Europe camera enforcement rant: “In Germany...You’re paying this and you’re responsible. But in the States, it’s very different.” [30:10]

Quick Mention

• Hyundai Ioniq 6 discontinued (except 6N); compared to an “Infiniti J30.” Hosts mostly unmoved by its demise. [33:43–36:51]
• Mercedes VLE luxury electric van comes to US—hosts intrigued, see commercial/fleet utility + niche family appeal. [37:01–39:24]

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6. Moda Event Flood Story (“That Epic Rainstorm”)

[45:10–53:55] – Must-Listen Storytime

Kenan recounts, in riveting detail, the catastrophic rain and wind at the famed car event “Moda”:

• Hurricane-level deluge forced hundreds of elegantly dressed guests to sprint to shelter.
• Vintage Ferraris, McLaren F1, Elva, F40s and other exotics left in standing water and mud. “There was a 250 SWB backing up out of mud, an F40 in the water, a 675LT up to door sills, Testarossa completely surrounded...” – Kenan [47:34]
• Open-top cars, tents flying, lightning strikes chaos.
• Community spirit & “it’ll be remembered far longer than any normal fair weather event.”

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7. Market Report – Insider Auction Analysis

Highs & Lows

• BMW E61 535xi manual wagon: $52,500 – rare, desirable configuration; bidding wars.
  • “Station wagons have become our thing—we are wagon central.” – Doug [65:03]
• Cadillac Allanté: $3,300 – Even pristine examples are “never going to be worth anything.” [68:15]
• Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo: $87,000 – “Probably the nicest one left in existence.” [71:02]
• Discussion over classic JDM vs. ’90s Ferraris—preserving collector-quality cars.
  • “I think there should be a few dozen of these perfectly preserved.” – Doug [71:53]

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8. Q&A Highlights

Notable Questions & Insights

• When to sell an interesting car?
  • “If you’re not thinking about the car all summer, pretty much I sell the car in the fall.” – Doug [82:43]
  • Kenan: “If your gut is already telling you you’re not sure...time to go.” [83:29]
• Why not bring back the Viper?
  • Needs NATURALLY ASPIRATED (NA) V10 & manual to maintain credibility, which is hard to market or develop now. [74:48–77:55]
  • “If they mess with the recipe in any way, I think they instantly lose all of it.” – Kenan [76:12]
• Career GT vs. F40 prices
  • Carrera GTs have doubled vs. F40s, which are flat despite identical production numbers—a “shift away from the older cars” observed. [88:19]
• How episode/podcast is created?
  • “We brought in Sean on a rainy day...He said you should have a podcast and it should be this, and we were like, all right.” – Doug [81:08]

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9. Memorable Quotes & Moments

• “You don’t go broke making a profit.” – Doug [01:22]
• “Anytime a car is at Cars and Coffee with aftermarket wheels, I’m like, look at this thing on TE37s.” – Doug [23:37]
• On LA luxury sedans: “You drive around in this...you look like the father of someone with a Range Rover.” – Doug [15:58]
• On spicy markets: “I think you could still, to this day, buy an F40 for two and a half [million]. F40 values have not gone crazy.” – Doug [88:03]
• “What unifies all [Stellantis] brands? ...they're all cool. I mean the Pacifica maybe aside...” – Doug [77:05]

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10. Timestamps for Major Segments

| Segment | Time | |----------------------------------|-------------| | Porsche Struggles & Hypercar Talk| 01:09–07:55 | | Rivian R2 Price Breakdown | 08:08–13:10 | | Big Luxury Sedans Dead | 14:05–18:20 | | Montana Plate Crackdown | 23:37–27:36 | | NYC Speed Camera Tickets | 28:02–31:56 | | Moda Rainstorm Story | 45:10–53:55 | | Auction/Market Report | 62:05–72:32 | | Q&A Section | 73:16–88:07 |

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Tone

Conversational, witty, slightly irreverent, and full of deep car-nerd banter, with Doug and colleagues ribbing each other, referencing inside jokes, and delivering granular insights for enthusiasts.

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Takeaways

• Porsche is at a crossroads, likely responding with upmarket sports cars; a real hypercar could emerge.
• Rivian R2 pricing is shockingly competitive.
• The luxury sedan ‘death spiral’ continues as SUVs dominate.
• States are finally policing tax avoidance via Montana LLCs.
• Moda event rainstorm was a car world spectacle—testament to the unpredictability and community spirit of car culture.
• Market report shows wagons and ‘90s JDM legends are on fire; some 20th-century “future classics” are worth almost nothing.
• Q&A reflects on ownership, market dynamics, and enthusiast psychology.

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For more, visit Cars & Bids or catch up on Doug’s YouTube channel.

Transcript

[A]

Are you dreaming of the perfect prom? But there's just one thing holding you back. Speak English, Mom. Welcome to Ethnosync. Ethnic Modification. What is this place?

[B]

We help you reach your true potential. How are you feeling?

[A]

It's good to be white.

[C]

Hey, new girl.

[A]

Hey. Look at what you've done to yourself. For a new plant to grow, the

[B]

seed has to die.

[A]

Slanted Rated R. Only in theaters March 13th. Side effects may occur.

[B]

Close your eyes. Exhale.

[C]

Feel your body relax.

[B]

And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts

[A]

in time for this class.

[B]

I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe.

[A]

Oh, sorry.

[B]

I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[A]

Oh, sorry. Namaste. Visit 1-800contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. Hello, and welcome to this car pod.

[C]

I'm Kenan.

[B]

I'm Filippo.

[A]

I'm Doug. And let's start with the news, Porsche.

[C]

Now, recently, Porsche has been having a little bit of a tough time. They reported a 5.8 billion. 5 point billion dollars less in profit in 2025. Not a good situation.

[A]

You know what I. You know what hit me, though, about this? Because this has been reported. It's been a big news. They reported like 5.9 billion in profit last year and 2, and this year they reported like 90 million. Yeah, but you know what my great friend Manny Kosman once taught me? You don't go broke making a profit.

[B]

That's right.

[A]

90 million. Still 90 million. If Filippo made 90 million, you know what he'd be doing? Probably this.

[C]

Probably. Probably still this. I don't think anything in his life changed in any regard.

[B]

Why change a good thing?

[C]

Yes, but it gets a little bit worse. Of course, VW has been saying for a little while they're going to cut 50,000 jobs, the company, that includes at Porsche, by 2030. So 30 things aren't looking great at Porsche, but they have a new CEO and he has some ideas about how Porsche can make some money. And one of the big things is, he said recently, is, quote, they are looking at sports cars above the 911, which means one of these in theory. Now, of course, there are models of 9, 11 that haven't come out yet, GT2RS, for instance, but they're considering other models. And that, we kind of think means there's going to be a hypercar the

[A]

fellow who runs Porsche now came from

[C]

McLaren, which makes me a little bit concerned.

[A]

Isn't that weird? Like you're promoting people and hiring people who have not had success at other companies. Like, I don't understand that.

[B]

Right.

[C]

They look at the McLaren lineup and

[B]

it's like, yeah, to be fair, McLaren went from this is zero here to like here.

[A]

That's exciting. But it was reported only a couple years ago that they were like teetering on the edge of bankruptcy.

[B]

When you start out teetering on the edge of bankruptcy, growth is less teetering. It's teetering a little less well, but

[A]

Porsche's not in that position. They need someone. They don't need like a McLaren. They need someone who like can take a good thing now, regardless, it's a weird hire. So they say there's gonna be cars above the 911. You're saying hypercar. My personal point of view is we're gonna be talking like SF90 type stuff.

[C]

Well, yeah, to be clear, they said we're looking at models and derivatives above our current two door sports cars and above the Cayenne.

[A]

Right. We know. We already.

[B]

The Cayenne.

[A]

That they would say that. We already know they're gonna do a three row Cayenne. That's like talked about. We also kind of know they're going to do a hypercar. It was supposed to come out along with F80 and W1, but they were going all electric with Mission X and more or less it has leaked that they are canceling their development of a full electric and they're instead going to go for something different.

[C]

Well, yeah, and we're not exactly sure yet. Don't forget, they did recently file a patent for a W18 engine. I'm not saying that's going to go and it seems unlikely to me as well.

[A]

I think that what they ought to do is their time tested strategy to take their Formula one engine like they did with the Courier gt and just put it in a, in a supercar.

[C]

Well, technically, with their ties to Audi, they could put an actual Formula one engine in a car for the first time.

[A]

But. Well, you know, the, the 918 had an actual Le Mans race car in it.

[C]

Is Le Mans Formula one. Let me do the math. Carry the one.

[A]

No, but the point is it had a race car motor like it was real.

[C]

It did. I mean, well, and this would have if they could build engines and the rules didn't change, but timing didn't work out. It's a road car engine or a road car. Just Saying, but yes, I'm nonetheless excited

[A]

from a Formula One power plant.

[C]

It was derivative at best.

[A]

You know what Filippo would do if he got 90 million? He'd buy the lot behind his house. Because he's worried about the lot behind his house being developed one day, not

[C]

in his backyard, I'll tell you that.

[B]

But I'm supportive. They said as part of that same press conference, we're using the current challenges as an opportunity to act even more decisively. We will comprehensively reposition Porsche, make the company leaner, faster and its products even more desirable.

[A]

That's thrilling. I'm glad to hear that they feel that way and I'm sure that they will. And the products are still great. Except for the electric Cayenne, which is not going to sell, but. Or the electric Macan, which is not currently selling.

[C]

Right. And yes. And the electric Cayman that people are infuriated about. That doesn't exist.

[A]

And the Taycan and Panamera, which neither of them sell.

[C]

Right.

[A]

But other than that.

[B]

And really they just need to sell cars in China, which they have failed to do the last year. But, you know, maybe.

[C]

Yeah, we'll certainly see what happens nonetheless. Like, I'm excited for whatever the next Porsche Hypercars. We've been waiting a while now.

[A]

We're so weird. Porsche is such a weird brand because they have this like capability to sell cars in the 600 to $2 million price point, but they also sell an SUV that is leased at like incentive teaser deals. Like what. What other company is like that? Like, it is such a weird situation. So there probably is room for them to go in at a higher number. I have a suspicion McLaren ce in and says, hey, why don't you guys actually compete directly with the 750s? Like you have your GT3Rs and your GT2Rs do compete with them, but like at the very highest level of this existing sports car. Why don't you have a purpose built car, especially with your porsche brand name? McLaren has a hard time selling cars at this price point. But Porsche wouldn't. Why don't you go and do this?

[B]

Although didn't Porsche have Trouble selling Carrera GTs and 19? It was the market.

[A]

It was a different market. And 918 is sure. But the car is a very different price point. I'm talking about like the 500 to $800,000. Yeah, they should wear SF90.

[B]

Maybe they will. Maybe that's. It'll be.

[A]

I think that is what it'll be. We hope it has three pedals.

[C]

Oh, my God. Imagine if it's.

[B]

Sorry, we just got to say now it won't.

[C]

But, but it.

[A]

If, but why do you say it won't?

[C]

They're make. They're decisive now, Filippo.

[A]

So if anybody would, it would.

[B]

There's three trim at the moment. Porsche sells three trims of cars that have a manual transmission. Yeah, but the CARRERA T, the GT3 Touring and something else. Yeah, but Felipe, there's no other cars in their lineup of all the cars they sell that are manual. I know they should recognize that there's a huge case for it. They should, but I don't think they will.

[A]

That's being deliberately like, the 911st went out of production yesterday afternoon and not only did it sell out as a only manual transmission car, but used ones are selling for double the stage.

[B]

I agree that.

[A]

So, like, ultimately it's a little disagreeable.

[B]

I agree that they should take the message that there's strong demand. They will, but don't you kind of

[A]

think that they won't? I think that they want to satisfy enthusiasts if they're gonna. You know, the Carrera GT's birth story is in a lot of ways related to the fact that Cayenn had come out and a lot of people were discounting Porsche as an enthusiast brand. And so they had to come up with something really special like that. I wouldn't be surprised if they come up with a three row Cayenne. And if they come out with all these electric cars, if they say, hey, we're also going to do a true manual transmission supercar in the image of something like that, to really prove to people that even though we're also heading in this direction, we can still head in the true Porsche.

[C]

We haven't forgotten who we are.

[B]

I hope so. But if you want to compete on power and specs, they're already kind of the pinnacle of where they can go with transmissions they already have and engines.

[C]

But they prove that they don't have to. They have to compete on his driving involvement because they're an enthusiast brand and that's what they capitalize on. And they're doing really well with GT3.

[A]

And the fact that 911sts are selling for 700,000 should give them a message that there are new car buyers willing to spend that money on a special car that has a manual transmission.

[C]

This is the signal, Jerry. This is the signal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Porsche is a boring thing to talk about. Let's talk about the most interesting news story of the week. Rivian R2 pricing. Rivian R2 pricing is finally here. Are you ready for it, Filippo? Do you know what it is?

[B]

I don't know what it is and I'm very excited.

[A]

All right. We're filming this before the embargo, so I have to look at my embargoed information. The standard rivian base model, 350 horsepower. Rivian, 265 miles of range. Take a guess what that car costs. Base model, rear wheel drive, 350 horse, 0, 60 and 5.9 for the R2.60.

[B]

Because an R1 base is what, 80.

[A]

That starts at $45,000.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Wow. Now that's not coming right away. The standard. It's a year up. Yeah, it's a year up. The standard, a year and a half. The standard model has 350 horse, 345 miles of range. So it's a long range. That's 48.5.

[B]

Wow. These are appealing.

[A]

Yeah. 350 horse and 345 miles of range. That's what you need from a car. 45. This is predestination, pre options. I want to be clear. Yeah, that's exact. That's less than a year out. Okay. The Premium, which is 450 horse, 0 to 60 and 4, 6. 330 miles of range starts at 54. To me, that's the segment leader.

[B]

A four runner TRD off road. Premium starts at 56.

[A]

What does a model Y cost like? To me, these numbers are really, really pink. 54,000 for a 450 horse. 540 pound feet, 0, 60 and 4, 6. 330 miles of range. It checks every box and it looks like that. And it drives so well. 54,000. What is model?

[B]

The rear wheel drive basis model starts at 40. To get to a premium, all wheel drive, you're at 49.

[A]

49. This is within. This is going to absolutely be within model Y territory. Except it is a much more appealing car. It looks better, it can do more. Obviously it's off road capable where the Y is not. You don't have the Elon problem, which for a lot of our viewers, I know it's not a problem. You love the man. But for a lot of people it is realistically, obviously it's more practical. And then there's the performance at the top of the lineup. 650 horse, 3.6 seconds, 0 to 60. With the launch package. That's a $58,000 car. Now, again, all this is pre destination. Destination is 1500 bucks. So add 1500 bucks to all those numbers.

[B]

It's also interesting to compare it to regular ice cars, I talked about a 4Runner second ago, a land Cruiser which is maybe more comparable from a luxury positioning standpoint. MSRP for the 1958 which is the base range model. It's 57. 6.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So you're.

[A]

You can get the top 7600. God, that car is so overpriced. Such a thing. And the regular, the worst car on sale.

[B]

The regular if you want the square headlights is 64.

[A]

God.

[C]

Wow.

[A]

That's about 61 more than I'd spend. But this, this is an appealing car. And talk about road. Compared to a Land Cruiser the road manners are so significantly better. You're not stressing out that four cylinder engine that's barely keeping up with the car. This is a really compelling car. You got to admit between 46.5 for the very base model and the very top trim for with destination is still under $60,000. That's a 650 horse off road SUV that does 060 and 3.6 with 330 miles of range. It is a perfect all rounder.

[B]

Incredibly appealing.

[A]

Incredibly appealing.

[C]

Well, it's really important they hit a home run with this car. I mean this is what we've been waiting for admittedly and I'm personally waiting for R3 because that's my thing. But this is so compelling. It's hard to argue with this car.

[A]

Especially I think R3 is going to be cool. But ultimately this is going to be the volume car.

[C]

Absolutely.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

And I think it is incredibly. I think the only drawback is I really truly believe it will lead into R1 sales. They don't. But they're wrong. Like it just straight up. Well, yeah. Especially because they're not visually differentiated. But I think that, I think that it's going to be a really big hit at those price points. I'm really surprised. Those price points, obviously. Honestly. And in fact the standard, the big sellers are going to be the standard and the premium. The standard starts at 48490 predestination. That's carefully created to make it fit right under $50,000 base before with destination. Which is totally reasonable.

[B]

If they're single motor. Motor. Excuse me. If the single motor which is a standard. Right.

[A]

If I'm understanding correctly, the standard is rear wheel drive. Yeah.

[B]

If that is still giving you 350 horsepower.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Great.

[A]

That's right. That's faster than any gas powered competitor. It's faster than anything like that.

[B]

Now you probably do want all wheel drive. And Rivian I think is still going after the off road or at least

[A]

and stepping up to the premium, which is what I think I would do looking at these numbers. You step up to the premium, you get another 100 horsepower, you get all wheel drive standard. A Second's chopped off, 0 to 60, your range is not affected at all. And the additional cost is only $5,000. The premium is like the one to get. It's just starting to get a little spendy at about 56 before options, but that's like the one to get.

[B]

I'm impressed by this price.

[A]

You're buying one.

[C]

Yeah, I can see it. You want one. You do?

[B]

I do. I think it's an incredibly compelling offering. It will quickly go to the top of the list of what do you recommend to somebody?

[A]

Yeah, that's anybody who comes to me now looking for an EV, a big look, you need an R2. But what about. No, no, look, it's time for an R2. You certainly don't want an ionic six, am I right?

[B]

They're just dead.

[A]

Okay, that's our two pricing. Very compelling, very appealing.

[B]

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[A]

lot of the rest of the news is devoted to cars that are dead, including the Audi A8, which is dead. Surprises no one. We have reported on this podcast that the Alexis LS died. That was maybe six months ago, obviously. Eight, six, eight years ago. The Jaguar XJ died, the Acura RL died. All of the big luxury stuff. RLX, all of the, I don't know, 10 years. It's like we're seeing a pattern. And I have long predicted the death of the aa. One of the last videos of reviews I did of the aa I don't think it'd be the last generation, which it was. But I still think the seven series is not long for this world.

[C]

Yes, that is exactly what I thought when I saw this news. And they killed it in the fatherland too. So in Germany they're no longer accepting orders. And it's like you just have to imagine 7 isn't that far behind. I see them a lot though, so

[B]

I don't know, they care a little bit more about 7.

[C]

BMW holds on to the heritage.

[A]

You got to assume also that 7 series is still selling relatively well enough that like it's still pop. Relatively popular.

[C]

It's justifiable for now. But its days may be number man.

[A]

Its sales numbers are low though. 0506 they were selling 17, 18, 16,000 units a year. This is in the United States. These days they are lucky to crack 10. So in a normal year they're selling half of what they. I'm sorry, 0708 they were selling 17, 18,000 units. These days they're lucky to crack 10. They're selling half of what they were just 15 years ago. The writing is on the wall.

[C]

Half during the recession.

[A]

That's ye. You know, the writing is on the wall. It's pretty clear where the future of this car is headed.

[C]

But nonetheless, rest in peace.

[B]

AA it's a good car.

[A]

Such a good car. The A8 was a good car. The Lexus LS was a good car. I don't think that any of the failure of this market of these vehicles have anything to do with their quality as vehicles. I think it is purely the market segment has moved on. People want SUVs. I mean you could drive around in this or a Range Rover. You drive around in this. You look like the father of someone who has a Range Rover, you know, or the grandfather.

[C]

I'm fine with that.

[B]

So true.

[A]

Nobody wants to say and you know, remember they tried in this gener to make it where you open the door and it raises up like an SUV so it's not so hard to get in. Shockingly that that play didn't work.

[B]

Incredible suspension technology though. It like predicts bumps. Right. And it has a camera that's a scan.

[A]

Nobody cares about it and I'm sure

[C]

it will be reliable in the long term.

[A]

Nobody cares about any this. I was the saddest about the Jaguar XJ because I thought the final Generation XJ was a fantastic luxury.

[B]

Well, luckily you had like 10 years of it being out, including with the V8.

[A]

But this is another luxury sedan. Dead full size luxury sedans. Thankfully Cadillac came out with one that cost $400,000. But other than that. Other than that, what's left?

[B]

The S Class just got refreshed. That's going to stick around.

[A]

Yep. The s class, the G90, which obviously will not see another generation, no doubt. The seven series. That's it. Yep, that's all. That's your full size luxury sedan world. It used to be that those were the top of the heap of aspirational. I mean obviously there's Rolls Royce and Bentley stuff, but I'm talking about at this price point there's. There used to be the top of the heap of aspirational cars. Like when you were a kid, if someone's dad had an S Class, they were the R. Like it would. It was like. That was like the coolest thing imaginable.

[C]

I mean, yeah, totally. This extrapolates to those cars rolls romantically too. I mean how many Cullinans and Bentayas do you see versus when was the last time you saw a series 8 Phantom?

[A]

Absolutely.

[C]

I can't remember. Genuinely.

[A]

Totally. Yeah.

[C]

But yeah, love my sedans. But that's. It makes me sad.

[A]

I love sedans too and I think that for enthusiasts there's still a place for sedans as performance cars. These are certainly not enthusiast cars. Yeah, and it's one more lagoon and you have to assume G90 goes away and then you're just left with the 7 series and the.

[B]

Hey, don't forget about the Panamera. The Panamera is a hatchback also maybe combined with a Taycan.

[A]

You know, that's one of the trickiest things Porsche has ever done. The Panamera this whole time is a luxury sedan. It's a hatchback. They snuck in this like this like snooky little hatchback into the market. Nobody knows.

[C]

Does just having a hatchback maketh it a genre? Because the 812 is a hatchback.

[B]

Yep, yep.

[A]

So the 812 and the Volkswagen Golf duke it out for compact hatchback of the year in my book anyway. No, you're right, there is the Panamera, but that's not going to be long for this role. I mean you look at the.

[B]

There is talks of the next gen Panamera. It will be combined with the Taycan.

[A]

Of course it will. The idea that there were two cars in that segment is so insane from the outset of course. That was what was going to happen.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

Okay, interesting things. Give us our next newsy. Oh, my God. Did you read this?

[B]

I. I did.

[A]

Car and Driver notable publication I'm Famous called me out in their review of a Honda Prelude. They said Internet personalities obsessed with quirks and features have criticized the Prelude's base price. But accounting for inflation, the 97 prelude is actually more expensive than today's Prelude. That's what they said. The thing that they're forgetting is they didn't account for any inflation in terms of horsepower. The current Prelude actually has the same horsepower rating as the 97 Prelude. That they were friends.

[B]

It turns out that cars have gotten cheaper. It turns out if you look at all cars, relative to inflation, cars have gotten truly, notably cheaper.

[A]

Say, I actually love Car and Driver and I use Car and Driver a lot for research, for videos that I make. And all that writing stuff about how the Prelude is not too expensive undermines the credibility of the entire endeavor. There's nobody in the world who thinks this car is reasonably priced. And then you see this. And that's where the criticism comes. Oh, they're getting paid by Honda. It's like, oh, yeah, probably. How do you say they're not? They're sitting here defending the new Prelude and the tradition of all the great future Preludes or past ones. I will say this car and Driver. Let's do a little friendly comparison about sales figures. A little wager here, and let's see how it goes. Let's see if this car is successful. And I think in the end, the Internet personality obsessed with quirks and features will be right. Filippo, are you thinking about a Prelude?

[C]

No.

[A]

And why is that?

[B]

There's so many reasons. Because first of all, the Civic hybrid hashtags exists. Second of all, the Accord hybrid exists, and it's the same price.

[A]

I have now seen one Prelude. It wasn't on the road. It was at a Honda dealer that I drove by. It had been. They had like a viewing platform and it was on it.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

Trying to get people off the freeway to come.

[B]

Credit to Honda. I've seen two with plates.

[A]

With.

[B]

With plates. And apparently they have a goal of selling about 4,000 this year. And in February, they did sell like 200ish, 300, which is like, put some vaguely on track.

[A]

Well, you know, I would. I would argue that. Right. Ultimately, 300 times 12 is less than 4,000, and that's when the car is brand new.

[B]

I said vaguely on track.

[A]

If you look at the tail of these cars, it ends up it doesn't usually increase supply limited.

[B]

You know, when the new 400 first month sales aren't that high. Yeah.

[A]

I'll tell you right now, this thing ain't supply limited. There is not a Honda dealer in the world who doesn't have three of these either in existing at their dealership or inbound. Sitting there thinking, how are we going to put these down? There is not a Honda dealer in the world that isn't in their. In their Monday morning sales meeting. Doesn't have all the salespeople come together. All right, two grand to anybody who sells the Prelude this week. Anybody who gets the Prelude out The door gets two grand.

[B]

300 new on lots right now.

[A]

300.

[B]

Which is about a month.

[A]

A month supply.

[B]

A month. It's been out for a month.

[C]

You know, Filippo, if you had that $90 million in profit, you'd still drive right past the Honda dealership and not buy this.

[B]

Oh, yeah, there are other Hondas that would buy.

[A]

People would not. Can't afford to lose the appreciation that this car. This is the only. This is the first piece that I have seen that supported. The president disagrees with your take.

[B]

Yeah. I will say their second piece is that it handles great. Which you also agree.

[A]

It totally did handle great. It totally did handle great.

[B]

It'd be nice if the rear seats matched fronts, but hey, that was pretty rough.

[A]

All right, move on to the wheels. Move on to the wheels.

[B]

I'm excited to report that earlier this week was te 37 day.

[A]

I want to give a little about why we're doing this news story. 37 is some sort of wheel in Japan. People in the comments will be like, that's the greatest wheel. Yes, they will. I'm not a Japanese wheel guy, but we have a guy here in the office, Ryan Lopez. You may remember him from the broken air conditioner incident a couple weeks ago. Anyway, he's obsessed with all sorts of modded Japanese cars. And he said to me, he said, if you do the story on the TE37s being given their own holiday in Japan, I'll do a favor for you. And I said, great. I said, we're low on snacks in the office. I said, can you buy them? He said, I won't buy them until you do the news.

[B]

So we had no choice.

[A]

So big day in Japan.

[B]

The Japan Anniversary association, which is apparently the association that makes national holidays in Japan.

[A]

I did verify.

[B]

This is truly the association that doesn't made. March 7th, starting this year, the Volk Racing T37 day. It's been around for 30 years. This month or this year rather. And obviously 37.

[A]

37. 3 7. 3 7.

[B]

So Volk T37s made by Rays.

[A]

Explain that to me. How is it both Volk and Rays radius it's company? So this would be like a General Motors Cadillac CT4, which by the way,

[B]

every General Motors car said General Motors.

[A]

It tracks okay. So March 7th. Great day in Japan. Love our TE37s. Fantastic wheels. That enough to. Is that enough to get the snacks in the office? Got it. Okay, move on.

[C]

Wait, go.

[B]

Go back and push your can. Until you saw those pictures, would you have known what a T37?

[A]

Yeah, but that's the only wheel I can identify. That is an oe. I can identify. No, I can identify every OE wheel and one aftermarket wheel. And it's the. Oh, and the Ronald Teddy bears.

[C]

Now he also will use T37 as like a coverall for any aftermarket wheel. If it's just wow. T37s.

[A]

Anytime a car is a coffee, someone's got aftermarket wheels. I'm like, look at this thing on TE37. No. Great day. Great day in Japan to commemorate the very special TE37, which is of course on many four luggage vehicles, including Ryan's Zesty drift car, which by the way has functional air conditioning. All right, move on to the next news story. There was a new report in New York Times. This is one of those news articles. I hate New York Times reporting that California is cracking down on Montana people. I don't hate it because I have any cars registered in Montana. In fact, I don't have for a long time. I hate it because everyone in my life has sent me this news article.

[B]

So this all came from the like state attorney general, whatever, put up like a Facebook post and an Instagram post about this. And all the pictures in that article came from that Instagram post.

[A]

California, a lot of states have started to crack down. In fact, California is not the strictest state that is cracking down on this. Every time I read an article about California's enforcement measures, I'm astonished at how lax they are. They're like, we think $20 million is. Is. Is uncaptured sales tax. I'm like, 10 cars?

[B]

What, what happened?

[A]

They're apparently cracking down. They went after some. They're starting to go after dealers. So one of the interesting things that California has done to try to curb this happening is that if a car in California is sold now to an out of state business, you have to submit a driver's license Even though a business is buying it, some human being has to submit a driver's license to California DMV taking ownership of the car. Now if you buy the car and you live in North Carolina and you ship the car to North Carolina as an out of state business and you provide a North Carolina DL, California's not going to care anymore.

[C]

But.

[A]

But if you buy the car as a Californian, you submit a California driver's license and you register it to an out of state Montana business, they're going to be knocking on your door, as they should.

[B]

So last week, or they announced last week that they charged 14 people with felony tax evasion and how many dollars in sales tax?

[A]

Specifically though the article was highlighting that they, they had found these people through the dealerships.

[B]

$2.3 million in sales tax revenue.

[A]

Yeah, the dealerships who are now providing this form, the dealerships are now required to provide this form anytime a car is sold to an out of state business. And so it's gotten a little bit harder to title a car in Montana if you're a California resident or California driver's license. Unless you play a little fast and loose with things.

[B]

It's such an obvious spot for enforcement. Yeah, right. Like it's so visible.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's so obvious in so many cases. People brag about it constantly. Some of the convictions came from like 20 just texts back and forth, oh

[A]

my God, during discovery. They didn't get those.

[B]

Obviously it helped. The conviction was during discovery. There were just texts back and forth of oh my God, I saved so much money. Yeah, by titling my car in Montana.

[A]

Right. Maybe don't talk about it, but what are you going to do now? You can't do Montana.

[C]

I have always registered my cars in the state of California. I paid sales tax on them all proudly. So that sounds like a problem for other people.

[A]

I agree. Now the article. Me too. By the way, Oklahoma, now the Oklahoma is what I say when I'm being serious. We should start saying Montana.

[B]

You should not.

[C]

No, that's if you're being disingenuous.

[A]

The article did say that they're going to crack down on the other four no sales tax states which are. Or specifically start giving more scrutiny to cars in California registered in those states which are Oregon, Delaware, New Hampshire and Alaska. New Hampshire is probably not a big one because they have a physical inspection. But I mean, I don't see cars running around with Delaware plates. We see some Alaska's, but that's mostly

[B]

military where you were stationed.

[A]

It's tough because it borders like. I see cars, Morgan, all the time. But if I, if it's. It's. It's February, I would want to get out of Oregon right now, too.

[B]

The benefit of Montana is that you can create an LLC incredibly easily. The car never needs to be there. Right. There's a bunch of benefits that I think make Montana a little unique.

[A]

Yeah. Alaska's apparently the same way and. Alaska, really? Yeah, yeah, people do Alaska now down in San Diego.

[B]

You can get away with that because

[A]

every city has get away with a lot. It's tough if you're CHP to pull people over for this because 80% of the time someone's going to pull out an Oregon driver's license, go on with their Oregon license plate, and be like, why are you hassling?

[B]

Right, right.

[C]

But if it's on a LaFerrari, it might be a little hard.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So I bet that guy doesn't have an Oregon or Montana license.

[A]

Yeah, maybe that might be true. By the way, I took this photo and I took it in California. And the reason I took it is because that Hyundai accent was trying to parallel park in front of this LaFerrari. And it was the most stressful experience of my entire life just watching it happen. This is probably eight years ago at Monterey Car Week. Okay, what's our next news story?

[B]

Story.

[A]

Oh, Filippo.

[B]

So there was a report out this week about, by like a transportation alternatives organization about the people that got the most speed camera tickets in New York state.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And I want you to just kind of give me a guesstimate. In 2025.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

How much? How many tickets a single car received? That was the most in this case. School zone speeding tickets.

[A]

Well, I mean, in Manhattan, you get them out. I don't know, 40.

[B]

I will say number one was 100% in Brooklyn.

[A]

Yeah. I'm not surprised. The person's commuting to work every day, doesn't know the cameras there, and ignores the tickets because they're registered out of state Honda Court. Some popular.

[B]

It was 259 tickets to 2023 Audi A6. By the way, the same car was number one in 2024 as well. Small credit to them. They do pay their entire fines, which are $64,000 last year.

[A]

You're kidding.

[C]

They paid 64 grand?

[B]

Yeah, they actually paid it, which is rare, by the way. Most of these payments that in New York state you can get the screen camera tickets, they don't connect in any way to your registration, to your license. So it's not points on Your license, It's just cash. There are some interesting ones here, Turo.

[A]

No, because it's the same place every day.

[B]

Yeah, weird.

[A]

They paid.

[B]

They paid. Number two was a license. And then kept speeding for two years in a row.

[C]

Number two is a tax.

[A]

Yeah, but a crazy high one.

[C]

Really.

[A]

Driving a six, you could be in an A8. With a car rising degree, it cost

[C]

more in tickets than the whole car did at this point, I'm sure.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

There are some interesting ones. In some cases, there was a GLE that had 177 tickets, all in a two month period. Wow. Not before, not since. Which is fascinating. But number one, two years in a row is that somebody also got 134 tickets totaling 30,000. Excuse me, $20,000 in the 2024 BMW 760i, which is legit.

[A]

That's not a V12.

[B]

That's not a V12, but it's still.

[A]

The top Europeans watching this will be like, I don't understand. This is insane. Right? These people are arrested.

[B]

You gotta wonder.

[A]

I mean, like in the United States, we have an unusual attitude towards speed cameras. The United States gets made fun of sometimes for having low speed limits. However, enforcement is much less significant than in almost every other developed country. And there are no speed cameras in the United States. And the few places that have implemented speed cameras have done it in very small numbers. Only in school zones and construction zones, primarily some stoplights. And even then they run into a problem because you have the right to confront your accuser. In the United States, the accuser's a camera. The governments are always afraid of litigating some of these cases. And so they're actually more willing to just be like, all right, well they didn't pay, we're not going to go after them. We can't do much. They can't prove who's behind the wheel. In Germany, if you get a speeding ticket, a speeding camera ticket, they say, we don't care who is behind the wheel. You're paying this and you're responsible. But in the States it's very different.

[B]

Getting 259 school zone speeding camera tickets at some point does become a safety hazard.

[A]

It's wild that the person speeds in school zone every day. Send a police officer out there to start writing them actual tickets that will actually affect their driving record.

[B]

This report says that there's 2.5 million people that live within a five minute walk of the intersections where the 10 super speeders got most of their tickets.

[A]

It's really not all that hard. I know NYPD doesn't do traffic enforcement. But like. Like you could snip, nip this one in the bud pretty quick. Three schools own speeding tickets, rent to a person, probably you lose your license, I assume especially in a short period of time.

[B]

Two or three. Yeah. But.

[A]

But they don't do that. That's not how things work in New York. The traffic enforcement is. Is a political thing that is talked about in New York City, but it is not something that's actually enforced.

[B]

If you see a 2020, a black 2023 Audi A6 and you live in Brooklyn, be quite careful.

[A]

What's the plate? Did they give the plate?

[B]

They do give the plate.

[A]

What is it?

[B]

LCM8254 Dam. Damn.

[A]

Damn. He should get birthplace of baseball plates. Everyone in New York should.

[B]

2017 is. Is number 2 Ram 1500.

[A]

2017 Lexus is Ram 1500.

[B]

Number 3 Geo.

[A]

What's on the Ram brother?

[B]

LCK 7.

[A]

Regular person?

[B]

Regular person. Of course regular person.

[A]

Well, I don't know. I. I could see these. These tickets being racked up by delivery companies or taxis that are driving massive miles and the company just pays them

[B]

as they would find consequence for that. There's another Ram 1500 on the list as well. And a Mercedes. A couple class.

[A]

Really? An A class sedan. These are all cars where I wouldn't assume that people would care. So I guess it makes sense.

[B]

Helping run cars and bids. I'm constantly amazed at how many different ways our team has found to use Claude. Like it started with me using it for research and writing, but now it's spread across the whole company. Our developers are using it to ship faster. The marketing team is drafting copies. Our HR team is making dashboards. Is genuinely becoming part of how we work. Claude is the AI for minds that don't stop it. Good enough. It's the collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Claude extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. What gets me is that it's not one use case. It's every department finding their own thing. The connectors mean that Claude can plug into the tools your team already uses, like Google Workspace or Notion, so it has real context. It's not just a chatbot anymore. It's kind of like a central brain for the whole operation. Are you ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Claude today at Claude. That's Claude AI Cars. And check out Claude Pro, which includes access to all of the features that I just mentioned. Claude AI cars.

[A]

Okay, next news story please. Very interesting, very interesting. Ah, another car that's dead. The Infiniti J30.

[B]

Nice. The Ioniq 6 is dead except for the Ionic 6N which will be sold

[A]

in 2026 because they came out with it yesterday.

[B]

Yeah, they came up with a refresh in 2020.

[A]

What were they thinking of this car?

[B]

What so Most Hon the EVS including Ionic 5 are built in the US. The Ionic 6 is built in South Korea.

[A]

Okay. So there was a Terat in addition to it being a sedan. I mean it was kind of doomed from day one because it looked like the Infiniti J30 and it was electric. It was a sedan.

[B]

It's a cool looking sedan, but it's an, it's a weird looking sedan.

[A]

I don't think you'd ever like the Infinity J30.

[B]

I don't love the Infinity J30.

[C]

Really?

[A]

It's rear wheel drive. Okay. You don't like this car?

[B]

I said I don't love it. I, I, it's not, it's particular.

[A]

Look at that.

[B]

And the, I agree that the Onyx 6 is so yeah, it wasn't selling that well relative to other Hyundai EVs and cost 25% more to Hyundai because of the tariffs. Makes sense. The oniq6n I think is small enough production numbers that they're willing to eat that.

[A]

And plus it literally just came out. They should at least give it a shot. Unlike Infiniti who only gave us four short years with the J30. You could only take the J30 to your golf course for a short limited time and then it was stolen from us.

[B]

Sadly deadly. But goodbye this car at all.

[A]

You ever seen one of these?

[C]

No. I try to ignore these but they,

[B]

they look kind of cool.

[C]

I don't think so.

[A]

I don't hate how they look either.

[C]

I think they look like a Beetle, like a, not a Volkswagen Beetle, like an actual like grotesque like call exterminator.

[A]

I agree with both of you. I think it looks like a bug and is weird but at the same time I'm sort of drawn to it. This is one of those cars that I wish I would own if I wasn't into cars.

[C]

I wanted to, I see what I'm saying. I wanted to like this, but I, I just can't and I've tried.

[B]

Also it came out at the same time as Ionic 5. It's sold alongside the Ionic 5. The Ionic 5 is more practical and is the form factor that people want

[A]

credit to Hyundai, though, for coming out with both and giving it a shot. I mean, I think a lot of everybody else just came out with an suv. Tesla, I guess, did both, obviously, but most other people just did the SUV thing. And we got this for a little while and we got reminded about the J30 and now it's gone, gone, gone.

[B]

Except for the N, which is cool.

[A]

Do you think I should review one? Does it have the same. No one's gonna buy it is the problem. Does it have the same fake shifting? Oh, I wouldn't mind reviewing one then. Does it have a big wing?

[B]

I.

[A]

It looks like it does. It looks like it has a massive wing. You know, I got on the freeway the other day in something, I was driving something cool, and there was a Hyundai N, either A5 or A6 up ahead of me there. Couldn't tell.

[B]

It's almost certainly a five. It does have a big wing and it has like, cool body treatment, actually.

[A]

Cool body treatment. Y. So the question, how do you create? How do you take this Beetle looking car and turn it into a performance looking car? We're about to find out.

[C]

6N.

[A]

6N. Yeah.

[C]

It doesn't look that performancey.

[A]

Huh?

[C]

That looks like a rendering.

[B]

That's what kind of what it looks like.

[A]

That's not it. I think you have to put a space between 6 and n. Doesn't really matter. The point is it's all there. Go we. There we go. There. Look at that. Yeah. Hey, you know what, Kenan, let's go power slide one of these around wherever that is in Chuckwalla.

[C]

That's Chuck Walla for sure.

[A]

You think there's Chuck Walla? There's Joshua Trees at Chuckwalla. You think so?

[C]

Maybe that maybe on some. A couple of those corners.

[A]

Maybe they're fake.

[B]

There was a facelift last year. Obviously nobody cared. Maybe.

[A]

What else we got in terms of news stories? Anything else? Oh, yeah.

[B]

Yes, of course. The Mercedes vle, which is their. Their new luxury electric van that's obviously made for like limo companies and fleets, but will probably will be sold to private people. Yeah, it's coming to the US we don't have range numbers yet, but their big focus is on screen. There's like a huge screen on the interior. As with every new Mercedes product. There's a huge rear compartment screen and it's a new van. The metrics, obviously was a beloved, well reviewed, well regarded minivan. And if you haven't gone to see Doug's review, you should, because he really expands on why it's so Good. The VLE will I'm sure be a success.

[A]

You think it'll be a success?

[B]

Absolutely not. It will do that.

[A]

370 miles of EPA range. 370.

[B]

It will do well with. They have two batteries, so the base trim is smaller battery.

[A]

Can I ask you a question?

[B]

It will do well with like the fleets that want a small luxury minivan.

[A]

You often talk about how you wish there were electric vans, plug in vans and luxury vans. Why doesn't Lexus make a van? Why is it, folks, this is it now is there only going to be like an executive transport version or is there going to be like a car seat capable?

[B]

I think there's going to be a regular version. We are only getting the long wheelbase version.

[A]

We don't want the shorty. We don't need the shorty. This ain't the Eddie Buzz. We don't need the shorty.

[B]

Right. So more com. But it is exciting that it's coming because I think it is a niche. I mean you saw people converting the Metros into the Metros Maybach to have a luxurious people carrier limo situation. This is a good contender for that too.

[C]

Okay, I kind of like the W123 inspired, like grill and stuff on the front. I kind of like that.

[B]

Yeah, W123 it is.

[A]

W. I completely agree with that. It looks like an old like high grill, low grill Mercedes. I'm interested in this. I'm interested in this from the perspective of someone who wants a mini van. Do you think that this will replace my desire to have a Toyota Sienna? No.

[C]

No.

[A]

Because you think it's going to be like very commercial van in Europe.

[B]

It will certainly be a family van too. And I'm sure they'll come out with something.

[A]

What makes Europeans different from me.

[B]

They have different car buying preferences.

[C]

Like.

[B]

Well, like what they don't buy to your Sequoias for one.

[A]

You know, I saw. Last time I was in Italy I saw a Sequoia TRD Pro on the street. I got a picture of it.

[C]

Really?

[B]

What were the players with?

[A]

No, it was Italian plates and it was the V8 one, the old body. It was green. I'll send you the picture. I'll give it to you.

[B]

I actually distinctly remember it and it was quite a moment for me. This might be something that is vaguely appealing. I worry that it won't be as

[C]

I think emphasis on.

[A]

Yeah, well, I can't wait to see the price point. I personally am interested in this electric van. I'll tell you what, it's Only been good news stories this week. A8's gone. Didn't like it anyway. Ionic 6 gone. We already heard that story with the J30, but now we got an electric minivan. Filippo, there's. And California's cracking down on the losers who try to cheat us. All right, everything is coming up. Filippo.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

All right, next news story.

[C]

And that's the end of it.

[A]

That's the end.

[C]

Well, sorry, Filippoantis.

[A]

Filippo wanted to also talk about some van that.

[B]

Oh, I do want to talk about the RAM van. We're not. But that's not the Solanus story.

[A]

Today they're hiring engineers.

[B]

I want us to share a quick headline.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

The new folks at Cilantis have a new CEO recognize that they've had some quality issues and they're hiring 2,000 engineers to fix their quality issues.

[C]

Now, some feel that if you take pride in your work, the quality should be good. So the fact they need 2000 people to go.

[B]

Their framing for this is actually somewhat fair. Which is the companies that have the best quality reputations are the companies that most iterate instead of innovate. So basically their argument is like Toyota uses the same powertrains for decades and decades and decades.

[A]

One problem, though, is that I have is that Chrysler doesn't do.

[B]

It was good framing, and I say it was correct.

[A]

I totally agree with that point. I think about this a lot. It is kind of amazing to me sometimes when I get in Toyota, some of the features they still don't have because they don't feel that they're ready yet and they care about the quality.

[B]

They use the same chassis. They use the same engines for a long, long time.

[A]

I would like to see Chrysler step into the innovation realm, therefore.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, that seems unlikely.

[A]

Okay, well, then I would at least like them to be able to create cars that aren't Lemon Law buyback.

[B]

That is their hope too.

[A]

2000 engineers so that. So that Ram 1500s don't get lemon Law buybacked.

[C]

And this might not work. To be clear, this might not be enough. They may need more.

[B]

Just.

[A]

Let's just hire more people.

[C]

Just throw people and money.

[B]

It also assumes that they hire good. The best people.

[A]

I don't know which you assume they don't. Let me ask you a question. If you're Chrysler or whoever it is,

[B]

by the way, Solanus isn't just Chrysler. They have many brands.

[A]

But yeah, that's another problem problem.

[B]

They have so many brands.

[A]

Do you think that spinning off Ram into its own brand was really stupid?

[B]

It was A tough move, especially when Dodge sells a single vehicle.

[A]

If you're a Chrysler, why do you think that 2,000 additional people is going to be the thing that solves the problem? Don't you think, like. Don't you think, like, quality, like, because

[C]

some consultant, McKenzie, told him that's going to fix everything.

[A]

I.

[B]

There's a good ration. Right? Like, they need to do a lot more testing, basically, is what they're saying. Right. They need to go a lot further on their, like, infotainment and electronic system testing. They need to just do more. More testing generally. And that's what the focus is.

[C]

It just seems like a lot. It just seems like a lot of people. For what? For something that should be.

[B]

Also, I'm excited to talk in about, I don't know, two years on this podcast about them laying off. I don't know, somewhere between 2,000 and 10,000 engineers.

[A]

Something that's truer than I can even begin to explain. Okay.

[B]

Can I ask you a question?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can you name even 10 of Solentis brands?

[A]

Are you kidding?

[B]

They have 14.

[A]

I can literally name all of them.

[B]

They have 14. Please go ahead.

[A]

Price? Yeah. Ram? Yep. Alfa Romeo. Fiat. Yep. Dodge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so I'm already halfway there. Srt.

[B]

Not. Not a standalone brand.

[A]

There was a time. Launcha. Yeah. Which Italian ones have I done? Have I said Fiat?

[C]

You said Fiat and Alpha.

[A]

You got

[B]

decent guess. The rest will come naturally once you remember Maserati bought.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Hey, I got eight. I'm. I'm doing pretty okay.

[B]

Can you get two more? Yeah, there are 14. Can you get two more?

[A]

Yeah, I can get two more. Opal.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And Holden.

[C]

I mean, yeah.

[B]

I mean, it's not. It's not on the his list, but yeah.

[C]

Voxel. Voxels.

[A]

Vauxhall. Yeah. If we're counting that in Opal. Do they even still sell cars under those brands?

[B]

Apparently. What are the other four? A bar that you missed.

[A]

Oh, God. Jesus. That is exactly the kind.

[C]

I knew he was gonna say it.

[A]

We're moving on to the.

[B]

Is Citroen, DS and Peugeot.

[A]

I forgot that they own those. We're moving on to the Talk Cars segment, which is brought to you by the field behind Filippo's house. The field behind Filippo's house. House. It could become a tall building and people will look into his windows.

[B]

I would love for it to be

[A]

built to something that's so great.

[B]

It's so overgrown. There are gophers. It's a real problem. Producer Sean and I have this ritual. We grab coffee at his favorite spot, Altrea Coffee in Ocean Beach. It's a great place, and every time I'm there, I notice how smoothly they run. Checkout is instant. The text receipt gets to me before I even grab my cup. There's no fumbling around. They're using a square, and you can tell they're not winging. Support for today's episode comes from Square. And they've got big news. During Square's biannual releases event, they launched a wave of innovative new features to help local businesses run faster, smarter, and more profitably. From AI that answers your toughest business questions to tech that simplifies food orders and tracks every dollar. It's all live, and it's built for businesses like yours. Whether you're starting fresh or scaling fast, Square helps you keep up and get ahead. And the Square AI thing is what stands out to me.

[C]

Me.

[B]

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[A]

Ken, tell us about Moda.

[C]

Yes, and I know you guys talked about a bit last week, but I was at Moda for the entirety of the event, and I got to experience all.

[A]

Tell us about the flood.

[C]

Everybody wants to know about the flood. The flood was shocking. Now, we knew it was going to rain. Everybody knew this. And it sprinkled the day before. It wasn't a big deal, actually. Got some cool pictures. It was. It was kind of nice, actually. It was sunny in the morning, sprinkled in the afternoon. The storm that came through on Sunday came out of nowhere. The skies got really dark, and we were all, like, walking around and. And my friends and I had gotten there a little bit late, and we wanted to see everything before the rain came down. But it was clear that wasn't going to happen. So we went under. What was the auction tent, which is then the award ceremony tent. It could hold about 400 people, I think. It was huge. And then the heavens opened. And it was not only the rain, it was the wind. The wind was really bad. And lightning, actually, I was told, struck a golf cart and was like. So they're like, we can't have. People can't be hanging out here. So they told us all. And these people are Dressed nicely and all these things. Like, you have to go inside the Biltmore. And I was like, oh, my God,

[B]

how far was the way of the Biltmore?

[C]

Biltmore must have been, I don't know, 200 yards, 300 yards. I mean, like, enough that, like, you gonna get wet. And I was like, okay, I'm gonna wait and be the last person out there and just let the exodus of people go. But then people were sprinting, and my friends and I all got separated, but I just drenched. Just absolutely drenched. I was sprinting at one point.

[A]

Were you the last person at out close?

[C]

I waited as long as I could, but the rain was coming down so hard that even, like, the steps to go up to the Biltmore was like running up a fountain because it was just, like, cascading down. I got inside just absolutely head to toe, soaked. But then my friend Ryan had a stroke of genius. He decided that he was like, well, I need towels. Where are our towels? He was like, well, it's probably the fitness center. So he went down to the fitness center. Nobody there. And he texted us all. And we eventually caught up. They had a dry sauna. They had hair dryers. So we all got perfectly dry. We were walking around, and so we're just waiting for the rain to stop. Now. The rain did stop, and we were like, we have to go out right now. I want to see the carnage out there. I want to see what happened. We got. And it was just immediate. There were areas just huge flooding. And, like, immediately I started thinking, it's like, there's a McLaren F1 here. Where's the McLaren F1? I saw Tyler's car, but Tyler's car was up on, like, a plinth. You know, 300 SL was fine. German car can take it. I went down the hill, and immediately I come over the hill. There's a. There's a 250 short wheelbase backing up out of the mud. There's an F40 in the water. There's a 19.

[A]

When in the day did this happen?

[C]

This was like, I think about 1pm

[A]

like, the event was ending anyway, or

[C]

the event was supposed to end, I think, at 3 or 4.

[A]

Had all the awards been already given out?

[C]

No. People didn't care at that point. Like, some people had gotten their awards. I think Ed was supposed to get an award in his Diablo sv. But anyway, I come over this hill, and, like, there's the F1 in water, and, like, there's a 675 LT up to the door. Sills Testarossa completely surrounded the Yesco. Like all of these cars that you saw like images of, it was like. And there was nobody around them and it was like this is a. It was like something out of like, you know, it was Tom Hartley. Isn't he the one who takes pictures of the cars on the water? That's what it looked like. But it was just chaos. But I will say the cars that got the. You pointed out that some cars were open topped. They tried to put plastic over a lot of them but the wind was so severe it ripped it off of a lot of cars.

[A]

You know, there wasn't an enough footage of this. Like there, there people ran inside. No one people. It would have been cool to stay out and because I didn't see any pictures or video of open top cars get taking on water. The only thing I've seen is I saw somebody with like a cup or a bucket taking water out of a McLaren Elva. The interior of a McLaren Alva.

[C]

To be clear. They were encouraging us to go inside and it was dangerous to be outside. The lightning, the lightning in an open field. Not.

[A]

There's that golf cart video where they're driving the golf cart, like get out of here. Here. And. And like a, a part of a tent like collapsed.

[C]

My friends were right there, like they got separated and went to that tent and I have footage of them like looking around.

[A]

It collapsed like right next to a singer 911. It looked like, like it was.

[C]

Well, there was a one off Ferrari that it was right there and it was just like it was. I've never witnessed anything like it. Now that's to say a lot of people are focusing on the negatives and I actually have a video that's coming out. The thoughts on Moda like to talk about this but the event, the rest of the event was awesome. It was so much fun and it was great. And I've been told that like this event is gonna continue to go forward and I really hope so because I know everybody was upset like about the rain. I'm sure there are things going on. I'm sure some owners are not pleased,

[A]

but I wasn't upset. I looked at all of those Instagram videos and I was so excited. It was like, this is a car event. I'll remember. No one will remember the quail event where I just, you know, showed my countach along with four others. But everyone's gonna remember the moto where the guy was digging his. His interior of his Elva.

[C]

Well yeah, we watched this like really rich guy roll up his pants and take off his shoes and wade out to his. Yesterday. I mean, this poor guy in the test store also kept stalling it. I mean, it was just like. I've just never witnessed anything like it at all the car events I've been to. It's also a reminder of why, like, it's. It's Florida.

[A]

It's Florida. That's the thing that surprised me. Like, I was watching that video and I was thinking to myself, this is a fairly typical afternoon rainstorm in Florida. This happened almost every day. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't been a situation before.

[C]

Yeah, the wind was a surprise. 40 to 50 mile an hour gust is a lot.

[A]

The wind seemed like it unusual, but

[C]

of course, it's on a golf course. There are no trees really to slow it down. So it's like. But I think there are definitely learnings that the event organizers will take away from Giant. I saw John Tamaran about 20 seconds before they told us they had to leave the tent. And I didn't get to talk to him because he was on the phone.

[A]

But was he like the organizer of it or something?

[C]

He's involved with it in some.

[A]

Let me ask you this question, and I don't mean to throw shade on the McLaren Alva. All of you McLaren Alva owners watching, do you think that the rain is forecast and you could put some covering on, but you have a McLaren Elva and you think to yourself, this is my chance.

[C]

Hold on a second. I got to. Where's the lowest point I can move this to?

[A]

I might finally be able to get out of this car and not lose $2 million. It's insured, for one. What? It's what I paid. Unfortunately, it's only worth a third of what I paid. This is my chance to get out of a McLaren Elva, in which case

[C]

I wouldn't have attempted to take the water out of it. Would have left it in there to stew with the electronics.

[A]

Well, maybe he. Maybe he made sure that that video got around right, so that. So that it could be seen as he was.

[C]

I tried.

[A]

I tried so hard. I'm so sorry.

[C]

It's my dream car.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I love this car so much. That's why I drove it six miles total. It was such a usable car with no windshield. I wasn't upset that I paid 2.5 million and it's currently worth $375,000. It didn't bother me at all, but unfortunately, I do think it is totaled, so sorry.

[C]

Yeah, maybe. But still it was such a fun event and my friends and I all had a great time and I suspect we'll go back next year. Year. So we'll see what the weather does.

[A]

What other. What other parts of the event are there? There's other stuff.

[C]

There's other stuff. Yeah. So there's, you know, there's the auction preview before arms. Sotheby's has an auction there and that's a lot of those are always fun to go because you can go check out the car. It's cool.

[A]

But then competitor to car cars and bits like competitive. We don't discuss unnamed auction company.

[C]

Auction company? Yes. Unnamed auction company that sells. Yeah. A lot of Ferraris and cool stuff. Actually there was a section that had all of our cars had a 355. Like I had a Carrera GT Countach SLR. Like the cars you have.

[A]

2014 Mercedes Benz E350 station wagon.

[C]

No. And it didn't have a targa. The rare. The rarest. You get to hold your head high.

[A]

I'm glad you went. I'm glad.

[C]

Speed tail though.

[A]

I'm glad you went. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I am jealous that you got to experience what I think will go down as like the car event of the year because of this ridiculous rain.

[C]

I tend to agree. I think that anybody who was there will remember this one for a long time. Were you there during the race? Rain. This is going to be our calling card.

[A]

Right. Like Amelia goes on the next week and it looked like it was great and it would look like it was successful but I've been rained out of that event too. Oh really? Is that right?

[C]

The last two years in a row they had to move the event from Saturday to Sunday because of the rain.

[A]

Yeah, they've moved it and, and, but

[C]

also I've gone out and they've had the show and it comes down and like it is just Amazing to see 250 GTO just getting rained on like a normal. I know they're just cars but it's like these cars are like people touch them white gloves.

[A]

You would never take an art piece or something.

[C]

And then to see them driving around after one last point on this, I will say the coolest car. The cars that made the most sense had no problems. Pre war cars because they were designed to be driven on roads that didn't exist.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like mud. They're like right at home.

[B]

Great point.

[A]

So you know what else didn't have problems?

[B]

The Carrera GT's certainly the 959s.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Oh, 959s. Definitely.

[A]

Jack it right up and you're all set.

[C]

But I did have a last point on this. I had a lot of fun. So many people came up and said hello, and a lot of people are very kind about the podcast, which is so great. I'm so grateful for. So it's very humbling whenever someone does that.

[A]

So many people come up to us and tell us they listen to our podcast. It's unbelievable because people do.

[C]

Hundreds of thousands.

[A]

You're listening to this. How humbling it is.

[C]

It is the number of people come

[A]

up to me and say, I used to watch your videos, but I love your podcast. You know, like, yeah, I don't blame you, but.

[C]

But I was very humbled by it and just had a wonderful time. And Jimmy, Posse says hello. Got to talk to him.

[A]

Jimmy.

[C]

Yeah, I got to see. Got to see everybody. So everybody was there. So it was.

[A]

Who's everybody? Did you talk to Tyler?

[C]

Was. April was there?

[A]

Do you talk to Leno? Yeah, he was there. I didn't see him. He doesn't leave California. And you know what? Do you blame him?

[C]

You know, but he'll. I guarantee he'll be at all, though. He's got. Buddy. He's got to go see Donald.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Plus, plus he lives there.

[C]

Osborne, to be clear, I want to

[A]

talk about the SL65.

[C]

Yes. SL65 is currently for sale. It's live right now. It's at the end of the cars and the bids.

[B]

A very brief era. An era, nonetheless.

[C]

It was. Now, do you have a question you want to ask?

[A]

No, I just, I. And I don't even want to gloat.

[C]

I don't even want to gloat. Hey, you said Valentine's Day. What is today not Valentine's Day?

[A]

Yeah, but I. Part of that is because my own delay in getting the video up. I think you would have been ready on Valentine's Day.

[C]

I would have. You know, to be honest with you, I would have been ready to have the car for another month, I think. But it, I, I, I did a lot of what I wanted to do with the SL65. The whole reason I'm getting rid of it is that although the car is very me and I love it, it's just the secondary car should have a manual. It just has to.

[A]

You, by the way, I may have said Valentine's Day, but you said Monterey Car Week, as I recall.

[C]

Well, you know, we can all be. We're not. We're not both. Not right. Well, you know, we both missed.

[A]

I am impressed that you did quite different amounts.

[C]

Yeah, I did quite. Quite a few miles.

[A]

How many miles did you do?

[C]

It's actually a little bit more than that. I actually have to correct that. I think it's 1500 more than that. So about 4500 miles.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I mean, that's pretty good getting. You know, any enthusiast who can get 5,000, I think that it takes about that many miles to really get the feel for a car. And I think you did 4,500 miles in a car. You had it, you owned it. You did like, you had that experience

[C]

for a couple of weeks. I drove it every single day and didn't drive the M5 at all.

[B]

All.

[C]

But yeah. So I think I got the experience of. The engine's a masterpiece. I did a video that's live on this on my YouTube channel now that kind of talks briefly a little bit more about the. The ownership experience. But, you know, I just really. I just. That engine, I genuinely think that is one of the best V12s ever made.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

Top 5.

[A]

It is a wonderful powertrain. And you got to experience it for, I mean, 4,500 miles. Nick can't go more than 60, 70 miles without stalling a car. That's true.

[C]

Or money shifting it, which, you know, it's good. Thing is, SLR is not automatic. There's another video I have coming out on Tuesday. Nick and I traded car. We did SLR vs. Cecil 65, which is an interesting video. It's kind of long, but it comes out on Tuesday. And you can go check that on my YouTube channel. It's a little out of sequence, but I wanted to know. And we had. We had a lot of fun.

[A]

But you didn't drag race him in the end.

[C]

Didn't drag race him in the end. I had a. I got. I've been trying to do this thing this year where I trust my gut for feelings. And I just had a feeling. It's like, we shouldn't do this. And Nick got a little squeamish about it, too. And I actually think he was kind of right.

[A]

Let me tell you this. Giving Nick your keys is risky because of that money shift with the ttrs.

[C]

Well, luckily no third pedal.

[A]

But don't you think Nick could still find a way, like, shift into reverse on the freeway and be like, I just wanted to see if it could.

[C]

Not to spoil anything, but I also did a video recently where I let my friends drive my SL65 and a lot of them went full throttle, but approached, approached it tipped and gently. Not Nick. Nick just goes, well, he goes, yeah, he is used to. He knows what he's doing.

[A]

And then he. Money shifts him.

[C]

Yeah. Couldn't do it with this car. But yes, the SL65 will go away. And then we'll begin the hunt for the next car.

[A]

We'll begin the hunt for the next car, which is.

[C]

I still want a Snake. I want a Viper.

[A]

I want a Viper for you. We have this 2015 Viper over here.

[C]

Yeah, that's a little out of my price range, admittedly.

[A]

And you know what? And you know, know what? It's not better enough to just. I think that the sweet spot of a Viper still is a good Viper. One or two. Like, they never refined it so much that I don't still want the original cars. I drove that car thinking it was going to be this refined luxury experience, which is how they pitched it at the time. Like, oh, we finally tamed. Well, it still drives like a Viper, except that one's 120 grand. Or you can get a 95 and you pay.

[C]

And like, the fifth gen looks cool, but the first gen is cooler still. It's just so awesome.

[A]

The fifth gen is definitely the best looking. But yes, I agree, the first gen is. Is like cool. Cooler.

[C]

It's like, it's more extreme. It's just like. Well, maybe not with the Arrow. Extreme Arrow versions of that car, you know, but now I just want to. I want a Viper.

[A]

Many years ago, I owned a blue white 97 GT and Filippo drove the car many times because Doug refused to.

[B]

He hated it.

[A]

He was like, here's an interesting story for you. Actually, I got a message a couple of weeks ago. The fellow who bought that car, I sold that car over on Bring the Trailer because it was before Cars and Bids existed.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Now I know that Cars n Bids is the best platform to sell your enthusiast car. Get the most money for your enthusiast car at Cars. And what is that about?

[C]

That's an ad integration.

[B]

I could have done it without the tone, but yeah, okay.

[A]

Get the most money of your car.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Damn it. Cars and Bids.

[B]

That's the place.

[A]

Anyway, so I sold that car to a guy in New Jersey and he contacted. He bought a car on Cars and Bits.

[B]

Oh, nice.

[A]

And during the buying process, he told our employee that he was working with. He said, our team member. I'm so sorry. He told our team member, he said, oh, it's so cool that you're on a team. But he also said, hey, I still have Doug's Viper. He said, does he want it back? I'd sell it back to him. And he's only apparently done, like, 500 miles in the 10 years since I sold it to him.

[C]

Sounds like a Viper.

[A]

I remember we did that transaction where I sold him the Viper at the bank of America in South Philly, and they wouldn't let him use the bathroom, even though they had a bathroom they just sold. And I left bank of America. Like, I stopped being their customer. It wasn't immediately after that, but that was, like, one of, like, 28 wrongs that I was just like, I can't do this anymore. By the way, if bank of America is a sponsor, great company. Charlotte, North Carolina, The Queensland City or something.

[C]

Do you think it was the Viper that they're like, oh, this guy doesn't know how to use indoor plumbing?

[A]

I will say there was a horrible, awkward moment during the transaction that I've never forgotten. This was 11 years ago. And I had the car cover for the Viperino. And he said to me. He said, oh, you get the COVID He said, is that inside or outside? And I said, well, the COVID goes on the outside of the.

[C]

I know what he was asking. That's ridiculous.

[A]

And he goes, yeah, but do you use it inside? I was like, oh, I know.

[B]

Don't know.

[A]

But it was actually an inside cover. That's the great irony of the whole thing. I don't know. I had never covered a car before in my life.

[C]

But he did not know who he was talking to.

[A]

He thought he was talking to someone who cared. Ironically, he's probably doubled its money.

[C]

But I want a Viper. I just think they're. I just can't shake it. Like, it's. The heart wants what it wants. And, yeah, sure, maybe I. Same thing. Maybe I only have the car for six months or whatever, but, like, just want to check it off.

[A]

I totally.

[B]

You will not do 4, 500 miles in this.

[C]

You say that. You don't. You don't know.

[A]

I did pretty rough. We had. I did. I drove my Viper a lot. We had it together. Like, it was. It was. It's. It's effortful.

[C]

I know it is. But I. That's what I want. That's what I want.

[A]

You say when you first buy a car. Remember my Lotus Elise? This is what I want. And then after six months, you're like. And no one wants to ride in this with me. No one will go for it.

[C]

No. Okay, that's true. My friend Ryan has Already said I will never ride your own, so, you know, whatever. But I. I want one. But in the meantime, the SL65 has no reserve, so it'll find a new home on the cars and the bids.

[A]

Nice. Can't wait to see what happens.

[B]

Beautifully presented. Photos are great and there's so many service records that it's.

[A]

Plus, this car is selling.

[B]

This car.

[A]

This car is Canon owned. It'd be like buying a car from.

[C]

Yep, that's from. From who? Yeah, I don't know who. You equate me.

[A]

Someone else who's very fast. A jury.

[C]

Yeah, well, yes, it is my car. Whenever you ask questions in the listing, I'm the one who's responding to them.

[B]

There are service targets going back to 2015. Impressive.

[C]

Yes. Oh, yeah. Scanning them took a long time.

[B]

I can imagine. Yeah.

[C]

But there's a lot of great service history at that car.

[A]

I want to move on to the market report. Okay. The market report is brought to you obviously by Ryan Lopez's TE37s. This guy, let me tell you something. Four lugs. They call him Four Lug Lopez.

[B]

He'd like you to know that it's five.

[A]

Is it five? You're car, it's not a basic model. He did an axle swap. He did a hub swap.

[B]

Yeah, there you go. You're getting closer each time you say

[A]

I don't know what that car has. Off camera said it has four lad, four legs and he swapped it. God.

[C]

Said it wasn't a baseball. That admitted maybe it was.

[A]

It's hard for me to always be right all the time, but here we are. I want to move on to the market report. Anyway. Let's talk about the E61. Yeah, we all talked. We all put this down. I put it down first, but flippo cop, factually inaccurate.

[B]

That's okay.

[A]

And we sold a 2010 BMW 535i X drive sports wagon.

[B]

Okay, we talked about this last week on our Live now show on the Carson bid show and it was with Ryan and Nick.

[A]

Wait, wait, hang on. We sold this car for 50?

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Well, Sean's going to get mad.

[B]

I thought you said it. Sorry. Keep going, keep going.

[A]

We sold this car for 52,500 United States dollars.

[B]

Last week we talked about in the Live now show on the cars and Bids channel. Nick and Ryan did not accept at that time that this is the ultimate station wagon. It's a. It's a manual, five series, one of the best looking five series wagons period. Manual, inline six, all wheel drive, low

[C]

miles I don't think it's the best look.

[B]

Don't worry about it.

[C]

The E34 would like a word.

[A]

Yeah, but that's an old car now.

[C]

Yeah, but he's saying. So is this. This thing is 20 years old.

[B]

This looks way more modern. The E61 styling.

[C]

Well, of course it looks more modern. More modern.

[B]

But it's the best regardless. It's also very low.

[C]

Chris Bangle.

[B]

Great.

[A]

You know what's better looking by the way, is the F10 which we did not get in the States.

[C]

I know the F10 touring is the touring. The F10 touring obvious, Dan is maybe

[A]

a little too blobby, but the wagon

[B]

is Regardless, the E61 looks great. This is a really low mile. Nice example with that. Perfect.

[A]

It's M Sport.

[B]

It's the one you want. And they do not accept that this is God's car. But now the market has them that it was.

[A]

What did they say it would sell for?

[B]

Ah, they didn't know. They don't know.

[A]

4 lug Lopez. 8100. 100 bucks. I don't know.

[B]

I don't know. I knew.

[C]

I have to say the number is a surprise. I wish I were here to defend the honor of the E61 because I like the E61. I believe this is the one sort of the E61 M5 which we can't get yet. This is the.

[A]

I'm not that surprised by the number I have seen over on certain auction platforms. These get to big money and I'm thrilled that we are now getting really big money for them.

[C]

On bottoms. They're bringing huge money.

[A]

They're selling them. It's. It's right between the. How many other floss.

[C]

American underslung.

[A]

Yeah. No, but seriously. And now we are. We've become the wagon place, obviously. And this is the result. This is the kind of result I would expect for this car. It's low miles, etc.

[C]

I wouldn't even say we've become. We've always been.

[A]

We have but like high end wagons, you weren't sure, whatever. Now it's like clear that like we are wagon central and like this is the type of car that really appeals to the real car enthusiast type of of bunch. And this is. And also if you're looking for one of these, it's like an 06100 series Land Cruiser. This ain't coming up again. No matter how much money you have, like you could be sitting on the sidelines with $100,000. It doesn't mean you're going to find one of these cars low mile M sport, all wheel drive, manual etc. Even just the manual alone on an E61 wagon is very hard to find.

[B]

Totally. This is just. It's such a good car. I'm not surprised by the price. It is what these go for but this is like we're getting to to new records.

[A]

The whole idea of body swapping an A60 M5, hell what you should instead do is is body swap an E60 M5 into an E61 regular 5 series.

[B]

Why don't I own it solves every

[A]

problem and it's more valuable.

[C]

How can you lose?

[A]

Can you tell me if an M5 is sold? Have we sold an E60 M5 for more than this? 52.5. Has anyone since new?

[B]

I think we did. We had one really low mile one.

[A]

I've had 51 super low mileage one

[B]

which has been 51 and then 74.

[A]

The answer is no, we have not. The highest $E60 platform car on our site is a 532 straight. This wagon and that wagon neither are

[B]

M5 and I stand by that. That feels correct.

[A]

Needless to say on the e39 platform the. The station wagons do not pull a premium over the M5.

[B]

No no.

[A]

You see 525i tourings pull it up

[C]

but the built ones do and like you you we do see them occasionally. I don't know if we saw that

[A]

other one has been E39 touring. I'm curious what.

[B]

Oh, there you go.

[C]

But yeah, E39 tourings like what's.

[A]

What are these? What do they bring in if they're not built.

[C]

If they're. If they're not built less.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

17 for that. Nice.

[B]

Yeah, they're cheap.

[A]

They're not that bad like not like D61 pretty much no stakes of that generation. Right. I want to talk about. There's two other things I want three other things I want to talk about. Market report. It's a big market report today. One is the Cadillac Elante. Can you pull up Cadillac Alante? We rarely on this podcast. I don't know if you've been paying attention but this podcast is. Is. Is a. Is worth shilling for car cars and bids. On this podcast you're being sold right now.

[C]

You talk about this one.

[A]

We only ever talk about good results. We don't ever mention the other stuff. Today I want to change that. I want to talk about the Cadillac Elante.

[B]

For the record, this is a good result.

[A]

This is a totally market Correct result. This Cadillac Elante non Northstar Cadillac elante sold for 3,300 bucks. And it hit me while I was watching this. This is a really nice car. Like this is a well preserved one. If you look at the interior especially it was a nice looking Elante. The Elante, like that's, you know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

For what they are a little bit of cracking. But like for an Elante these cars are never going to be worth anything. And it's funny because when they came out in the 80s, it was like this will be the collector's item. Cadillac low production, Italian built, you know, but Pininfarina design car. They never ever, ever, ever, ever went up in value. They never will. The market segment who would have sent them up in value is no longer interested in these cars dollars. It's over for our friend the Cadillac Elante. And three to six thousand dollars is what they're worth.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

We turn down more Elantes than we run. We do. We get submitted some really rough ones that are like fifteen hundred dollar cars.

[B]

Yeah. I mean to be fair this has a hundred thousand miles it all but pull up.

[A]

Go to the regular.

[B]

A lot of things don't necessarily work.

[A]

Go to the regular launch. 7, 100 bucks for a North Star. This is true. On the, on the, on the. Bring the trailer. No outliers here. Like ultimately it's funny because this car had so much of a gravitas behind it when it was new and it never did. Same with Buick Riata. They never. Yeah, the Riata.

[C]

Well it is. That is. Does make it the cheapest pin and farina design vehicle you can buy.

[A]

That's an interesting question.

[C]

Probably they're close. Anyway. It's kind of.

[A]

Did they do that Hyundai Matrix or was that. Was that Ben.

[B]

No, they. Did they do that. The Hyundai Matrix which was available seven

[A]

seats and that car is cheaper than this car. You can get a Hyundai Matrix.

[B]

I forgot about that car.

[A]

And I love that. That was a pin and frea for sure.

[B]

No, it was.

[A]

It was one at some Italian design house I think did it.

[B]

Yep. Pin boom.

[A]

Pull up the Hyundai Matrix. The real question that we should all have for ourselves is would you rather have that Cadillac Elante or. Yep. And pin and for his contribution because to me it looked a lot like all the other MPV in Europe at the time. But their contribution was the rear window was a different height than the side windows. Do you see? That's real Italian design work right there for you.

[C]

Chrysler. Listen up. That's innovation.

[A]

That's innovation. That's why it wasn't reliable. They innovated.

[B]

Also, I apologize. I was thinking of the Kiarondo for having seven seats. They only had five.

[A]

Yeah. The Rondo corset says, thank you for correcting yourself.

[B]

Sometimes I get texts like, hey, why were you wrong about this? I wanted to not leave that open this time.

[A]

Pull up the three. You want to talk 300 ZX?

[C]

I do, yes. The. So, yes, the 300 ZX, which I drove around briefly when it was here, sold for $87,000, by the way, in.

[A]

In this era, this was the same price as the Elante.

[C]

I'm just saying, this one, obviously extremely desirable, crazy low mileage, manual transmission, Twin Turbo V6, like the one to have. And you drove it to this. Just felt. The way I describe driving this car is it felt adult, like, it felt grown up compared to like the other cars of its era, Buzzy evos and

[A]

the STIs which had their place. But this car was definitely more.

[C]

It just nice. It just drives great, sounds great, the shifter feels awesome. And I'm not at all surprised. I mean, perfect example of find another one.

[A]

It is an interesting thing though, because for a long time these have lagged behind their counterparts. And this one, if this was a Supra, it would have sold for 200,000. However, it sold for big money.

[C]

Sold for big money. And I'm really glad because the owner I helped with this car, like, so fastidious. Like they had the original tires, which are here, and they're wrapped up. He had boxes and boxes and every sub box and it is labeled with what goes where. And like all this stuff sold new

[A]

at the Nissan dealer in Honolulu.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, it was. It just fastidiously kept them. Probably the nicest one, one of the nicest ones left in existence. So it sold for the correct number, real money.

[A]

And we posted this and of course the comment, oh, God, this car is ruined. You're ruining cars. They're getting so expensive. I don't think. Again, this is like the STI last week. I don't think the Z32 in general is getting too expensive. I think there's a lot of ones you can buy from real cheap. The next one's next, the next one's 41. And that car had 13,000 miles, although it was an automatic. But this car, though, I'm always supportive of the really special cars trading hands for big money and getting preserved. Someone should preserve a few dozen of these cars that we love, and I'm glad that that exists. I Totally am supportive of people modifying a lot of them and having fun and driving them or whatever. But, like, there should be some out there that in 30 years, when they're all gone, that we can look back on and be like, that car.

[C]

I remember, for academic reasons, to look back at how it was. I.

[A]

With that, I totally agree. And this car is clearly an example of that. Y. I think the new owner is in Florida. It is a very, very, very special car, and I am really, really. I was really excited to drive it. I had never driven a Z32 any distance before, and I was really impressed with how well it drove down.

[C]

My eyes. Our eyes. Our eyes together were opened with the

[A]

car totally to the point where you. I still think the mark 4 is cooler, better looking.

[C]

However, a nice one of these.

[A]

If you had gave me the keys where, like, you're going to, you know, do a canyon run.

[C]

Yep. And it fast. It was fast. I was shocked at how quick it is. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, we got to move on to the questions. The questions which are brought to you by the gophers in Filippo's field.

[B]

We don't talk about those anymore.

[C]

It's just Filippo field.

[A]

By the way, Filippo's like, these gophers now. You can ask us questions. You go to carsandbids.com, you click on the community tab, there'll be a post there that says, questions, questions, questions, questions. And you can ask us questions about any topic you want, including Ryan Lopez's air conditioning. We were a little light on questions this week, so please, people. I went to every single question. I went through every single question. 456, and I only found eight acceptable. I'm very picky. Well, half the questions are like, if you had this much money, what would you buy? And I just. I want to get, like, deeper than that. I want to feel more than right.

[C]

He wants a.

[B]

You want to feel really connected.

[A]

You want to feel like one of those gophers tunneling into.

[B]

You know how they can tunnel far.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

They fall all the way over to my place from you.

[B]

It's been a real problem.

[A]

First question from Tommy Marshall. I want to get this out of the way quickly. What, Doug, what happened to the racing sim setup from the Linus tech tips collab? I'll tell you what happened. It's sitting right over there, and anybody who comes into our office does a lap or two. Sean figured out something.

[B]

Leaderboard.

[A]

I actually haven't done it yet, but there's a leaderboard, and Sean is over here now trying to Claim that he's fastest.

[C]

But he's not there for hours.

[A]

And just.

[C]

And it really was just him. He has no. Like we haven't had any more experience.

[A]

Nobody's. Everyone else who's played on that thing has played it like done three laps. Sean has spent like full nights in here just sitting on the sim and then. And then. So he can pop up like a. Like his little. Like one of Filippo's gophers. From who's fastest?

[B]

One of our employees. Employees, team members. Johnny has a faster time on there.

[A]

Really? Is that true?

[B]

Not anymore. Apparently. Getting.

[A]

Sean spent four full days going to the sim.

[C]

He took a holiday weekend.

[B]

Sean, who's in my line of sight, shaking his head. Johnny in the back is nodding yes. His time is faster.

[A]

Okay, next question from Antonio SS22. This is a great and very timely question because I've been thinking the same exact thing. Given the epic success General Motors has had with the C8 Corvette and you can't say it's been anything other than epic success, truthfully. And now the Lamborghini Huracan is gone. Would it make sen from a market perspective for Stellantis to bring back the Viper where The mid engine V10 is a halo car for their brand? You know, the Viper, its whole life came and went.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. There have been periods of time when a Viper is for sale and not.

[A]

And then comes back like the Z. Honestly.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I drove that one and I was just thinking that same thing. You know, Stellantis is trying to regain some credibility that was lost when they came out with the fake exhaust note hatchback charger.

[C]

Yeah, but they can't do that. And I'll tell you why. Every Viper shares something in common. It has a huge V10, naturally aspirated V10 engine and a manual transmission. That would be hard to sell in today's market.

[A]

You think so?

[C]

I think it'd be hard to build. It has to be an NAV10 and it has to have a manual transmission.

[A]

I will say the last Viper kind of proved that maybe it needed to be the last Viper. Like they had refined it. They had finally come out with like the right Viper for the audience. Like it got. Made it more expensive and no one bought it and they couldn't get rid of that. They couldn't get. Get out of that experience fast enough.

[C]

You know, you say this, but the extreme aero cars are worth so much money now.

[A]

In the end it's actually. But. But I think that actually speaks to the problem with the Viper in general. They Came out with this luxury car and which are the ones that people actually want today? It's these ultra crazy ones that actually sold in super small numbers and you cannot justify creating the car just to make the extreme era one with all of that said this, this would be a good time to do it.

[C]

It would be. I just. But if they do it with a V8, like that's not a Viper.

[A]

I agree.

[C]

I think so. You say it gains them cred messed with the recipe in any way. I think they instantly lose all of it.

[A]

Yeah, I will.

[B]

Also the Hellcat and Hellcat engine things gave a lot of credibility from performance standpoint.

[C]

But it's not a five gold.

[B]

It's all gone. But you know the other issue, if you look at their brands, most of their brands sell one or two vehicles at the moment.

[A]

Yep. And like ones are also their models.

[B]

They don't have a unifying like what is the Stellantis brand? Nobody knows. What is the Dodge brand? Nobody knows. There's not a unifying theme and I don't think that sports is one of them.

[A]

What are you going to say?

[C]

Say they hired 2,000 engineers to get rid of the one thing that unifies all their brains.

[B]

Hey, we don't be smirch the Fiat brand in that way.

[C]

Your like side bells are falling off your, your center armrest was sharp.

[B]

That predates the lan.

[A]

I would argue that what unifies all their cars and their brands, they're all cool. I mean the Pacifica may be aside, but like every Chrysler and Dodge, you are choosing to buy it knowing their reliability, reputation because you think it's cool.

[B]

The Ram looks the Wrangler you're doing because it's cool.

[A]

Almost all of them.

[B]

But then in Europe, the Opel, the Peugeot, the Citroen, the Fiat, those are just cars.

[A]

But the problem is that they don't have a Viper, an Opel version of the Viper. And I think that if they took the Viper to Europe and made a Peugeot, the whole world would be in better shape.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Huh.

[C]

Be nice to see it. Yeah, just a nice V10 opal.

[A]

In European regulations, they don't allow you to wash that car in your driveway on a Sunday. They don't allow you to fix it in your garage during the week and they certainly wouldn't allow you to drive it down the street, make a noise.

[B]

I just don't think that like it fits any brand identity.

[C]

That's true. I don't know but I don't. I, I what I. Getting back to this question, I Would love it if they would, if the Viper would come back personally. But I just. Just don't see it. I think the 5th gen is the last.

[A]

Hard to imagine developing a V10 and all that stuff.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Unless they could justify coming back. Not with a V10 in a manual, they can't.

[C]

I don't think they can.

[A]

Corvette always was a front engine V8, not a V8.

[B]

Corvette's entire brand personality was, we want to be a supercar beater from America. That. That was never Viper thing.

[A]

Maybe it can be. How about the GTR come back as a Viper. Screw a V8, go for a V6, make a Viper GTR.

[C]

Really?

[A]

But that car is sold to the same people who like Vipers.

[C]

Well, you know, what if I want. Maybe. Maybe that's what we need to get the values of the Vipers to go off is for them to bring a V6 back and ruin it all. I don't know.

[B]

Do you want the values to go up?

[A]

No. He wants to buy.

[C]

I want to buy. Well, I'm going to buy one. Ride the wave.

[A]

He wants to buy one. Next question from bars and kids. Hi, Doug. These days you're only reviewing cars you have interest in personally or a combination of cars you know will do well for the channel. Do you have the final say in what you will review or don't review? I have the only say. I want to be clear here. Occasionally Sean will send me a card. Hey, I think this would do great. Hey, hey, this car. Someone is a guy who really wants you to review this. I'd be like, no, Sean, no. You've seen these conversations.

[B]

But on the other side of it, not happening.

[A]

Sorry.

[C]

They're fun to watch.

[B]

You will take suggestions and if they fit the brand identity, you'll say, yes.

[A]

All the cars I reviewed, this is the greatest thing that's happened that I don't think the audience has fully understood just how wonderful this whole Cars and Bins acquisition has been. Like, you are getting an unfiltered. If we were doing this podcast seven years ago, I'd be like, the Honda Prelude has many great merits. It is a little on the expensive side, just a smidge, but it's also a wonderful car to drive. And I suspect they'll have no trouble hitting their sales target. But now I'm here like the prince. And that also extends to the cars that I reviewed. Let me tell you something, okay? There is no situation on this planet in which five years ago, okay, I could have gotten away with reviewing a Nissan Pathfinder. An original Nissan Pathfinder. What are some of the other Lexus RX300? There was no chance that review would be.

[B]

Some might say that five years ago. Doug, what is a little bit more.

[A]

There was a time when needed to make money. Now we just have fun. We just have fun. It's what we do here and it's great. So the answer is, do I have a final say? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I agree with the say of. You have the only say that's accurate.

[A]

They've tried. They've tried. Sometimes I will not review a car that I want to review just out of spite. Philippe will bring it to me. You should review this. Nope, I would have if you hadn't said anything about it.

[B]

The truth comes out.

[A]

Okay, next question from Ryder7. This is actually a question for Sean, but Sean's not mic'd up, so I'm gonna answer. Answer it for him. I have a bad colored G wagon.

[C]

No, I can't handle it.

[A]

The question can't.

[B]

My brake lights may not.

[A]

We've heard the process of Doug creating the channel in cars and bids. What was the process of creating the podcast? Whose idea were the different segments and questions? Let me tell you about the podcast. We brought in Sean on a rainy day. Yeah. And. And he's like, you should have a podcast and it should be this. And we were like, all right. And that was that. Don't you think that was kind of.

[B]

Yeah. I don't recall doing anything pre Sean. We did some live shows that were like, truly live and then.

[C]

Which we still get asked about.

[B]

But it turns out that's a lot harder and not as interesting as doing a pre recorded pod where you can add additional media, where you can make it really an audible.

[A]

You could censor Nick.

[B]

Important.

[C]

That's what. But that's what people want to see. Nick unplugged. Oh, my God.

[A]

I mean, we couldn't.

[B]

We couldn't. We would need a five second delay at least.

[A]

At the least.

[B]

Just like.

[A]

And when he starts on a tangent, you just pull all the cords. You just se the oops and you

[C]

get that, you know, technical issues thing.

[A]

Right.

[C]

Screen.

[A]

All right. The. That Sean came in, he created a set. He created a pod. It's a great. It's the biggest automotive podcast. We should give a round of applause.

[C]

Some love for Sean.

[A]

For Sean. As I recall, our process of getting Filippo as talent. We were just like, will you do this with us?

[B]

Like, we're filming this today.

[A]

You're here. Like, all right, fine. And now he's a Staple in our lives. He's like corn.

[B]

Heavily incentivized by the federal government. Can I get some of that corn money?

[A]

No, you cannot. I have no Big corn for you. We have time for a couple more questions, surprisingly. Dear Doug, this is a great question from jcw, Nico or Doug to Doug or any of the other side characters on the pod. They're referring to you there specifically. What is the telltale sign that you're getting tired of owning an interesting car? Is there a. A specific sign that will make you go, maybe it's time for something new? Is it time to sell? I. I will say for me, personally, I'm very. I have this lucky thing where I go away in the summer and I don't really play with the cars. And if I'm not thinking about the car all summer, pretty much I sell

[B]

the car in the fall.

[A]

That's like.

[B]

That was eddie car.

[A]

The RS2. That's right, the RS2. I was like, well, this is done. The yellow Defender.

[C]

Well, I had the A class which was there on, man.

[B]

We do.

[C]

Well, of course we do.

[A]

But I think that's a big one. If you're not, like, actively excited, that's the beginning of it. Time to.

[C]

Yep, absolutely. Like, you know, I bring up the example. It's like I still. When I park my M5, I still get out. I walk forward, I look back at it every single time. I've had that car for 10 years. But like, there was a point. My 355. It's like I had to pick which car. I was going to go on a drive with my friends and I grabbed the keys to the other car and it was like, it's time to sell the car. Time to sell the Ferrari. And so I did. So, yeah, I agree. When you. When. If you are. If your gut is already telling you, I'm not sure for like, time to go. You've. You haven't realized it, but you probably.

[A]

I am to this day. My three. The three cars that I have that are really special. I am excited about them every single time I look at them, drive them, think about them.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I'm sorry.

[B]

To them. Whichever couple cars don't fit in that criteria.

[A]

Well, the 993 is like more of a practical car. The 993. I think I'll switch out for other stuff in the future, but I still really. That's a. That's a truck, man. That's a utility truck. Me and Sean use it to deliver the mail whenever the. There's a Big storm in Incline Village. Me and Sean go up there with our respective G wagons.

[C]

Are you handling it? Him not. And the thing. You. You however. You either drive, you either sell a car because you're going to move. You drive it into the ground or you're forced by our content team to then sell because we filmed it and decided we were going to do that. Those are the only situations. Those are the only situation.

[A]

Not really. You don't. You don't have the ability. You're very inv. Decisive in this topic.

[B]

No, just sometimes I get the GTI set of some months ago and still be actively driven.

[A]

The GTI was going to go 5,000 miles. The Aborth lasted 18 months after you said you were going to sell that. The GTI has been at least six months after you said you were going to sell that.

[C]

He's a collector.

[A]

Good car.

[B]

Although yesterday my wife said that she's tired of. She has to drive a bunch for work. She's tired of traffic in the GTI manual. Honestly, it's fair. Yeah.

[A]

I totally.

[C]

So is it going to go?

[B]

No. Because it's actually really useful to have a question car.

[A]

Have you thought about an ilx?

[B]

No.

[A]

At all. Not even for yourself but just in general?

[B]

In general? No. I've thought about a lot of cars. I. I think the wagon is coming up maybe on some life cycle.

[C]

What?

[B]

But I. But I can't think of anything I want more and so I'm not going to sell it.

[C]

May I make a suggestion?

[A]

Like.

[B]

You also need to have something Rivian R2. You also need to have something that you want to replace with. You want for a lot of really long trips.

[A]

You need a newer wagon. You need a 213. You. You. You only don't want it cuz I have it. If I didn't have it. You would absolutely have it. I'm just head.

[B]

I'm just.

[A]

You hate this. This idea that you're a budget Doug, which you are. But I love that idea.

[B]

I'm just not that interested in it. I think it's great. And the 214 doesn't have third row.

[A]

The 213 is better. I drove your car. 213 is so much better.

[B]

Of course it's better. Yeah. I'm not.

[A]

It has CarPlay without you having to install a Chinese unit in the. In the thing. Which you did.

[B]

That's the prior owner did.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah. It doesn't work right now very well. You have to like reconnect every time. That's the real problem.

[A]

Stunned at that, okay, that's all fair and I think those are reasonable reasons to sell a car.

[B]

But you also need to want something else. Like that sort of needs to be something that you want that money for that garage space.

[C]

I've been expecting to come to the end of my journey with my M5 a long time ago. I thought like, okay, I'm gonna want something else. But it just hasn't happened yet. Maybe it does one day. But like The SL did, the 355 did.

[B]

It's like for the wagon.

[C]

The Viper will.

[B]

The wagon's not worth all that much anymore. It has 125,000 miles. It's been hit a couple times. It has some issues. It's an old. It's a 12 year old car. What else do I want for that money?

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

What would you do with the eight grand?

[B]

Hey, it's worth like 15.

[A]

Hey, is the Abarth gone?

[B]

Did they both gone?

[A]

They drove it to Arizona.

[B]

No, no, they. They shipped it to Vegas.

[A]

Vegas?

[B]

Vegas. It's there.

[A]

Damn. Driving around Vegas in an Abarth, it

[C]

will die out there. Someone's going to shoot it with a 50 cal in the desert at some point.

[A]

That would be great. Hopefully.

[B]

We know.

[C]

I mean that make.

[B]

It's a great car. The Barth was so good.

[C]

It was a great car.

[B]

I was tired of it, but it

[A]

was a great car. Okay, next question from C L E Y E. Clay. Doug, with the Courrero GT selling for almost $3 million more than a Ferrari F40 at the same auction last weekend, would you ever consider selling the Courrero GT to move into an F40? We talk about Courreo GT F40 a lot here because I thought about getting an F40 when I bought the Courier GT and chose the Courier GT instead because I couldn't afford the F40. You know, one interesting thing, the answer to the question is that particular Courier GT was crazy money. And I don't necessarily think they're equal. One interest. Interesting thing though that we haven't talked about that this question reminded me of. You know what car hasn't run up like every other car in the last six months is the F40. F40 results have not been particularly strong.

[C]

5.23 this past at Moda for a zero mile US car for a 92. Yeah, 92 later car.

[A]

It was a euro though broad arrow sold this week at Amelia. A US F40 with 8,000 miles for 3.8 million.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

That is what they sold for. That is what they were selling for five years ago. That is what they are selling for today. The car that RM sold in Miami had 800 miles on it. So yes, it sold for 5 million. If an Enzo today sold with 800 miles on it, that car would be $15 million. Well, one did and that's what they're selling for. I have been surprised. F40 values. I think you could still to this day buy an F40 for two and a half. F40 values have not gone crazy like the other cars.

[C]

Well, I think no, I think they just made a gazillion of them.

[A]

But they made a gazillion courier GTs. In fact the exact same number and courier GT values have now doubled in a span where F40 values have have done nothing. I have a theory. My theory is people drove the F40.

[C]

I have a different theory.

[B]

What is your theory?

[C]

My theory is that I have been watching the market very closely where things are shifting and it's clear there is a shift away from the older cars. The blue chip like carbureted Enzo era Ferraris have more or less plateaued. There was a world record Dino this past weekend. But I think the interest is more on the early 2000s and Ferraris, I think that's like. I think the F4. I mean the F40 is the one very difficult to use and there are a lot of them. And so you're really just. Just the only real differentiating factor between them. Yes, you have the cat adjust and stuff, but it's mileage that's like the really the late year year production mileage maybe.

[A]

But a 959 just sold, which is the exact same era as an F40 and honestly way less cool. A 959 just sold for 5 and a half, which 959s and F40s were nowhere near the same plane until suddenly the they are. And it's like, wait a second. What? I'm interested in this. I'm really surprised watching these F40 results come in that F40 has not taken off either. Now it did take off quite a bit before, but it's interesting to me that there are not people sitting around saying F40 is a $10 million car when F50 is, when Enzo is, et cetera. There was a time when F40 looked like it was eclipsing F50.

[C]

Well, yeah, again, I still bring that for those examples, I'll bring it back to production numbers. 349F50 maybe, but career and GT when

[A]

I bought my career GT it was 65 to 75% back of the 40 and now it is not far off pair.

[C]

Well again I think part of the reason that is is there is more interest in collecting those Porsches. The 959, the Courage GT and the

[A]

918 as their damn should be.

[C]

As there should be.

[A]

Except for the 918 which is like a Prius.

[C]

Well, you got to have it to complete the set. The 288 is, you know.

[A]

You agree it's Prius in a lot of ways?

[C]

Yep. I don't know. I'm very interested. Ferraris are just so hot right now. I'm just very interested. Interested to see what where things.

[A]

Not the F40 except the F40 is literally hot. So maybe you should when you drive

[C]

it, maybe you should buy an F40.

[B]

Nah, I'm out.

[A]

I'm not. I don't want any more cars.

[C]

This value folks, it's never going to happen.

[A]

That's fine with me. I what I want more than anything else. A Lincoln Bronco coming. Lincoln Bronco. Bring it to the world, people. Thank you for watching. This is our podcast. Do you have anything else to say?

[B]

Check out carsandbits.com oh, cars and Bids

[A]

is a sponsor too. Not just the field behind Filippo House. Cars and Bids also should just be

[B]

a huge cars and bid sign.

[A]

If you got the 90 million and bought the field, that's what you would do. Put up a big advertisement for cars and that's right. Thank you for watching our finest podcast ever. Goodbye everyone.

[B]

Goodbye.

[C]

Goodbye. Foreign.

[A]

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